Mills and Zack - Race & Reparations w/ Todd Montesi, Haley Strong, Jessica Munoz

Nayanci's philosophers of the week are Charles Mills and Naomi Zack, the subject is race and reparations; guests Todd Montesi (HBO's Crashing), Haley Strong (NYC Comedian), Jessica Munoz (Small Business Consultant for the Bay Area latino community) join and bring their perspectives.

Transcript

spk_0:   0:01
everyone welcome to her fifth episode of But Why Low, Ah, philosophy, theme comedy podcast with comedian Josh Carter

spk_1:   0:10
in Brooklyn College philosophy student Nancy Lopez. And today we have a bunch of really great guests. A good friend of mine, Todd Montecito joins us. You may have seen him in HBO's Crashing. He also produces a lot of shows in New York City when the biggest ones has caught up and he's been doing that show for years. Like probably since I first started comedy, which is like over 10 years. Um, he's a staple on the New York City comedy scene, and we're super happy to have him. Also, we have Hayley Strong, who's on the New York comedy scene as well, and I actually go back with her a while. Her mom and my mom. We're really good friends growing up, and I have known this girl since we were like kids, since he was like four, and I was like 10 Um, so from that, you know, she's younger than me. Also on the show we have Jessica Mu knows who is Nancy's friend from high school and also is a small business consultant for ya. Connects Business Group, which is a consulting firm that focuses on Latino owned small businesses in Silicon Valley. She's also an advisor for the Silicon Valley Small Business Development Center, where she provides free advising and classes for new entrepreneurs in Spanish. So sit back, relax and enjoy this episode of But Why, though a philosophy themed comedy podcast, Theo

spk_0:   1:51
the Philosophers

spk_3:   1:52
were

spk_0:   1:52
going to be talking about Today we're gonna focus on race and reparations, and the philosophers that inspired this episode are Charles Mills, who wrote the racial contract in 1997 and No Me Zach, who wrote Reparations and the Rectification of Race in 2003. So we'll go ahead and start with Mills, and I'll just give you a brief explanation of what his own writing was about. So Mills was a Jamaican philosopher, and in his writing, he sort of theorize is about all of the theories that other for lost other white philosophers have done over time. And he argues that racism is at the core of this racial contract that he's created, and he talks about how white philosophers over time have philosophizes, um and created theories, but mainly for white people because most of them were white and didn't include non white people. So it was something interesting. He talks about oppression of non white people. And we've seen that throughout history, obviously. And, um, yes. So it just brings the question of of race and how that's played a role in in our lives and also how non white people have been oppressed and exploited over time as well. And, um, he doesn't like white supremacy, obviously. So my first question waas people, people. Also, for a while, I thought that race different read would define deep type biological differences. So what that means is that people thought that race dependent on your skin called skin color or your, um, your type of hair, your eye color, anything like that. Physical things. There's also a theory that we talked about in class, where people thought that different shaped heads meant that you were of a certain race. So a lot of weird theories. Yeah, and we're actually our d. N A. We share 99.9% of our DNA. So that's why a lot of people say that race is a social construct and, um, and people use race to justify slavery as well. So this is why many people believe that we should eliminate race. Others believe that we should keep race and instead try toe Reforma. Reshape. Remake our idea of it. So I wanted to see what you guys thought about that. What do you think?

spk_1:   4:33
Well, I actually will say race is a social construct because isn't because it's basically just different flavors of culture. You know nothing. But I don't think I don't think race. Being a social construct means that we should get rid of race. I think race should be here. We should just all be cooler with everyone. Why I walk in, We just all be cool with each other, you know, that's all. Like I mean, like, just treat everyone with respect, but, like, race should be there because without race, you don't have culture. You don't have like that thing. That kind of makes you special, like your traditions. Like I think that kind of stuff is important. And it's kind of like ads like extra flared or life, you know,

spk_0:   5:15
not make sense.

spk_2:   5:16
Yeah.

spk_0:   5:16
What about you, Haley?

spk_2:   5:19
Um, so I actually studied some of this when I was in school. Um, I have a degree in international relations and psychology as well as a minor and intercultural communications. So this is some of the stuff that I studied in school, and I absolutely think race is a social construct, like they have done so many studies that show, if you know, like you said, if I presented two skulls, you couldn't tell me what race those skulls belong to because the whole reason why they had to come up with this kind of junk science was to provide evidence and support as to why slavery should exist. So it's easy to find answers that you're looking for. You know what I'm saying? If you're looking for something that disagrees with you, if you already have that bias ready to go and someone says someone gives you some dank reason as to a justification on why you know slavery should exist, you're more easily to accept it. So it's kind of like all the reasons why people have that ray should exist. Why one released this better than the other race. It's not that it's not based on anything factual. It's not based on science. It's not based on anything. Um, if in fact all of it is is just a nen Decatur, where your ancestors were located in the world like it doesn't mean anything. Like, if you're from a hotter area, you're gonna be darker skin. If you're from a colder area, you're probably gonna be have less milk melanin in your skin and you'll probably have a point in your nose, because when your nose is there, science, find this the air, it gets heated up. And when your nose is thinner and more narrow, it heats up the air before it hits your loans. Whereas if you have a wider nose like a lot of Africans to do, even some Asians, it cools the air before it hits your loans. So it's really like, but that's me some geography that's not based on race. That's not based on something that someone looks, you know. You see someone brown and they're like, OK, I know exactly what your race and culture is like. There is culture. And then there's race races. Invented culture is something that's been passed down. So, you know, these racial lines didn't exist until really colonization, because before it was just all tribal,

spk_0:   7:39
but yeah, that's true, because there are a lot of a lot of ways that this has been used in the wrong way, and it's interesting to look at that. What about you, Todd?

spk_3:   7:54
Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like a complicated question, doubt, but like bottom Linus, I mean, you could say that race is a construct, but like when it comes to like the regular person, they don't even see it that way. Do you basically see it is like, all right, this is what I am. This is where I stay and this is it. This is what it iss. And I feel like with that, like, uh, people basically double down and triple down, especially like now that we're going, you know, as more as far as we're progressing like technology, technology plea and like, you know, culturally, people are, you know, doubling down, tripling down on like those old beliefs. And that's why you see, like, a lot of like, racism coming back and like, what race and racism that was hitting before, like being more prominent. But I extend with, like, the maga thing and all that stuff because It's like again. It's nice to know that, like, there's people like us going like Oh, yeah, we could think before we could think about the big picture most people can't really afford or just don't want to look at the big picture. And, you know, we're gonna end up still being in a circle where we're just taste chasing our tails going, Hey, you know, what is this? What's the philosophy behind us? Swear words we should really be like, All right, how do we, like, changed this whole thing? So we don't have toe make the same mistakes we've been doing for the past? I know 2000 years, you know, basically, and I swear to God, he said, like a racing bike and first was tribal. Then it became like racial. I feel like they're both kind of entwined in every way, because if you think about it, like even in the beginning, like, um, like, um, like looking Indian culture where they have, like the caste system, right, it's heavily based on race where, like the undesirables into the darker and the area instant to be lighter. And we've kind of like been passing that down to generation generation till even today, you know. And unfortunately I think we're seeing that's unsustainable in 2020 were like, You know, people are still people want to be parochial and stay within their own kind. Meanwhile, here's this stupor disease, super virus coming out from, like, this small corner, the world. It affects everybody, and we need to make a choice we need to make a choice about, like even when, like, Apple wasn't works like people want toe make us much money as possible. But they want to be parochial, which that doesn't work. Like capitalism's about globalists, you know? I mean, I am like that needs to be like a weird choice, and I feel like people are have been kinda.

spk_1:   10:24
But I feel like the world is like, kind of shifting towards more of a globalist state where, like now we're, like, kind of all intertwined, somewhat like on. Like we have social media were always like watching each other. I feel like, Well, maybe, maybe not, like, maybe certain people arm or kind of like out there, I guess, like people like who are, like in, like, big cities and stuff, I don't know like lately, and

spk_3:   10:46
he still you have, like a

spk_1:   10:48
go ahead God go. I mean, it's weird like it. I feel like growing up. I was there. It was easier to shelter when I was like a kid. I feel like I don't know if it was because of me being a kid at the time or because of the time period. But like I remember going through school and learning about racism. And like the Jim Crow era like lately, I feel like I'm just finding out, like like that. Like, for instance, like that Santa Claus is fake, that I'm finding out that this whole time Jim Crow has still been here and its attentions are still just Is that so actually hit home, like when I went to school in Texas very different, like culturally like down there. When it comes to Reese, then, like up in New York City, that was kind of I don't know, everything's kind of eye opening, but I think all that proves that it is kind of a construct. I mean, I think that people should embrace their their own cultures and have appreciation for others cultures. But I don't think uh, I I think that maybe what you're saying it's more culture than race that I think is important, but I feel like races just like tied to culture in some way.

spk_3:   12:03
I didn't just It's almost in a weird way. It's almost like the same thing now or like it. Maybe it's always been the same way, but, like, I definitely think we need to change and like, looking like, say, I think maybe we should just, like, break out from, like, tribalism. You know, maybe that's like a way of thinking. And look at the Duke, the big Maybe the bigger tribe works like All right, we're humans. So now, with different flavors that let's move on from that and trying to build something else like we should be going out to Mars and ship should be doing like, bigger stuff instead of like, you know, squabbling on 20% battery life. That's time is running out because of a pandemic that hit us and we weren't prepared because, like a wasn't communicating would be and and see was not listening to date because he's not e and then, but it just it just keeps on going and Now we're in this fuckin this clusterfuck because again, people want to stay in their lane and their tribes and their race and not try toe make something bigger out of it. You know, because of selfishness. Basically,

spk_0:   13:05
yeah. Yeah. What about you? Just ago. How do you feel about

spk_4:   13:10
it? Okay, start. Well, I see I don't like, um I agree with all of you in terms of race is definitely a social construct. Um, I think you technically can't get rid of race and itself. You can get rid of it legally. Like French tried to get rid of Brady's of like, we're not going to categorize you, like on the senses right now that we're doing like, you don't no longer have to put that, but doesn't really change anything because at the end of the day, like I'm speaking from my experience as a let me knowledge my parents, anyone that they see with, like, Asian eyes like, Oh, Sorrentino's like Mom, they're not all like, tiny place. So it's something that's ingrained in us of like you grow up and you use d is that way. So I feel like in order to get rid of race. We have to change the way we perceive it on to the next generations. Like don't teach your child look at like Asian people with black people are brown people with certain way. And I think that's something that it has caused white supremacy of like they were taught that no one is born being a white supremacists. Like you're taught that that that you're better than everyone because you have this privilege and even within our own race, like as a teen I like. I feel like I'm like I had spent two guys and when you know, when we first started talking like I'm in this awkward middle where, like black people are like, Well, you're super why and then like why people like where your super dark and I'm like well, like, doesn't matter, like I'm understand who I am. So I think it's more of a social like things that we need to fix within our own society because I definitely agree with, like there is so much more than we could be doing instead of fighting over like whose batter fighting over like Oh, I'm in Africa, you know, on the light Temple like that. Let me know like Okay, you're looking nose used to expand is we all have these beautiful cultures like let's embrace that and move on And like, make our planet that, like, let's make strides so that we don't have another endemic and weaken big social issues that are really important Not keep talking about why someone shouldn't be discriminating somebody else. And I

spk_2:   15:24
think at the end

spk_4:   15:25
of the day, it comes down to How won't we teach our the next generations? Because there was a video that went viral a few months ago like a teacher that did this thing are telling her kids like oval blue eyes are better than brown eyes. And so, kid, this kid didn't know that before then. So then all these guys like over your brown eyes like you're not a school is me. And so when the teach kids like, even if it's joking around, they started thinking that, like I grew up thinking like Asians are bad drivers because everybody would always say that. And I'm like, Well, that's I'm not that great of driver education, Okay, like, I think it's more of like what we teach our Children. The comment that make even if we're joking around, that's how we build racism because sometimes you're like, I'm not racist, But then I make comments of like, Oh, like this person because they're eight because they're black because they're white or whatever it is. My freshman year in college, my roommate was Chinese, and her parents didn't like me and my other roommate because I was back. I am Mexican obviously, and our other roommate was Filipino and check Oh, they're dirty like because they're Mexican and Filipino. I'm like my memory makes super sweet, super nice. But her parents thought that So that was what they were engraving at her, even though they were obviously Chinese, so they were obviously minority as well. So you think it's how we educate the next generations. It's how we're gonna be like look at everyone equally and move on and focus on what's more important.

spk_3:   16:53
My thing is like, what's the advantage for, like, state of powers that be to do that? You know? I mean, if you already like, would say the white power structure, you already have that power, you already on the top, you know, it's like defending a championship Like to them, It's like, Why should I relinquish my title belt for you when I'm getting all these advantages from being white? You know, like I don't know. I mean, we always say this conversation always to teach people better. But you know, again, we're seeing same thing young people, young white people, young Children growing up. They seeing who's the president or seeing that like influence and they're going well, why should I give up my thing? If that's what's still works for me like

spk_2:   17:36
you know, right? Well, it's also, I think racism is just it. Racism is just ignorance, to be honest, like it. That's why I will always feel that way. That's all racism is. To me. It's just ignorance, you know, especially going back a little bit to what we're talking about, like race and culture. If you bring it up to today and you do your DNA test, it's going to tell you that you tested positive for like, you know, Uganda in East Africa and below blah and it's like well, in Africa we didn't draw those lines. Okay, we didn't draw those lines like I know specific the reason why I say I'm African American is because my father was from Africa, born and raised, imported himself over here. Why? I can tell you the exact cultural groups that I'm from. I'm from a branch of the Masai were called the cock what people were saying. Like they're spent civically known for traveling. So in the same way that I'm Zulu. Oprah is also Zulu because she did her test. But does that mean that we're from the same country on that homeless? Yeah, the same country. And tried that. You know the same exact one. Maybe make me not, But what I'm saying and then going back to you know why people today will just say, Well, im black because that's what I know. It's because a lot of what slavery was was racing what that heritage was. So that Okay, you're black. This is your cast. This is where you belong. And this is what you should dio like. A lot of racism in America is systemic. It was built, our system losing broken in the words of a but number. It was built that way. It was literally built that way. And the government doesn't even deny it anymore, especially when it comes to things like that. JJ who all these people of these men went off to war bottoms. World War two came back, and the black veterans were denied home loans when they were coming back to specifically New York City and going out to Long Island and stuff. The black veterans were denied home loans, but the white veterans were allowed Teoh get these home loans, and then their act. They were able to accumulate that generational wealth that they were then able to pass on. So then, if you don't know that and just looking at today, it's like, Well, look at black people. They just like to collect in the projects and bold block. It's like, No, they weren't allowed Teoh get move out and create generational wealth in the same way that whites were. And it's not just that. It's like they're all. There are also other whites who have kind of other themselves from blacks, because if you look at it, there were a lot of Italian slaves. There were some Irish slaves, and so that's why we don't disturb it, that Syndey indentured servants who that the whole reason why blackface came along is because they tried to other themselves from Africans like Look, we can take this off, but they can't so that's another issue in it of itself. But what I'm but that you know, all all racism is it's just ignorance, like it's and going back to a Jessica. Phil is saying It's really about teaching new generations, like we are all aware of what the world is and what it isn't as of right now. But it's all about teaching our kids to kind of not only, you know, have pride in our, um cultures and to respect other cultures, but also not to other ourselves from other cultures and say like Okay, well, this is better because blah, blah like it might be better for you, but it's not gonna be better for the collective as a whole.

spk_4:   21:14
You know what I'm saying?

spk_1:   21:15
I wonder when that that time will come, though, Like I'm seeing all these like videos on Tick. I mean not like videos on tic tac click on the main timeline, but new stories of like these little teenage white kids either doing black face or like or like putting a bunch of, like, really stereotypical like they they make it like a game, like they put like, stereotypical words on like pieces of paper and thrown into the sink while they yelled The n word, something like they think of like that is like new generations of people. I feel I believed in that, like when I was growing up, but, like, I don't know, going to college like, opened my eyes like they're just areas of the country where people are just not integrated at all. You know, like I was like, Very I was weird to allow the these people when I went down there. I, like, was used to white culture because I'm half white, half black. My mom, like, raised me. So I went. I grew up like going to like a very mixed race church. I think I live with my mom. That's like where actually I met Hayley when we were kids and like so it was just always like but like, when is the whole world going to be able to do that kind of thing at the same time, like in like Oklahoma? Like there's not that I didn't see one black person working on Joe Exotics Farm in the Tiger case. But there's probably a reason for that. We don't take as big A for you. That's why people have, like, danger to society. So we don't need to work on a Tiger farm to feel that sense of danger. But I'm just saying it's probably like, not so. It's probably not as like, but it's just, like not is they don't have the same experiences as us, and they're just, like, not naturally together to save so much bad history. You know, it's it's just hard to reverse that. Like what? What could we do to really Teoh on a major? Look, we're doing what you're saying on a small scale right now, like they're in, like like probably in 2020 Kids are learning to be a lot like better and more understanding of other people than they were probably 1988 like when I was born or something like that, but in like, more like a like a city like New York or L. A. Maybe like an Oklahoma, I don't know.

spk_3:   23:25
Plus, I'm saying, don't how like they get you still have like these young kids who are indoctrinated in the system, And it's like, What's the benefit of them, too? Like give up their, you know, privilege of like, you know, being white?

spk_0:   23:37
Yeah.

spk_3:   23:39
Are you convinced that, you know, it's just wanna have parents and their grand parents and their grandparents saying, Is it a kick ass me white? Everyone else?

spk_1:   23:47
Well, I don't think that well, I don't agree that you should, like, redistribute their wealth or anything like that. Like whatever. Like they benefited from the system that's not their full, but like at the same time, we have to just unlock that be same kind of things for us, like you can't have banks discriminating in black people trying to get loans like these days. But like there are

spk_3:   24:08
about like but that's one thing to just cause you're saying, like, not redistribute our wealth. But I mean, if they got their wealth from like exploiting like us, like brown people, I'm saying like it's kind of like so

spk_1:   24:21
I think that was a record. I think we should be have reparations for sure. I don't want to take. I'm not trying to take shape. That's not mine. You know what I'm saying? Because if you do that, that opens the precedent for them doing that to us for the next 100 years. I'll be the next version. Like well think. Oh, we're able to do this. We got this wealth redistributed. We're finally treated as equals. Version three of whiteness is gonna be let. Oh, well, you redistributed are well, So now that when you build, we're gonna take that shit back of you, rise above the crop. How's that gonna feel?

spk_3:   24:55
That's funny. I

spk_1:   24:58
know. It's like government. I've signed off on this now because I accepted that shit in the beginning. Hell, no. This is how and like I give us reparations for what you owe us. I'm down with that, like, front from slave times, you know, But well, I

spk_3:   25:19
want inflation to, but when inflation, those 400 acres and a meal would be like I know 2000 acres. 5000 acres in, like, 10 meals. Touch meals?

spk_1:   25:28
Yeah. I mean, we all well, like Nebraska. On what? My home. It will be all black. At the end of reparations. We'll have. We'll have our like. They'll be like big cities, like in like Wyoming. That will be all. But they'll be like Atlanta. Little Atlanta.

spk_3:   25:43
Here's the problem, though. Like I'm sure you guys have heard about Black Wall Street back in Oklahoma, where it was kind of It was raised by and, like, waste premises.

spk_1:   25:53
Yeah. Yeah, that's the one where they burned it down my tofu.

spk_3:   25:58
Right, Right. I mean, yeah, basically, Yeah. So, basically, yeah, it's a black community. Driving was like its own Wall Street and in a burned it down. So even if things get redistributed, what's to say that they won't just be like Fuck that shit?

spk_1:   26:13
Well, I'm gonna

spk_3:   26:13
get my guns, and I'm gonna go. You know,

spk_1:   26:17
that's true. But I think,

spk_4:   26:18
actually, Middle America, like, go ahead. No, I was just saying, like Middle America, like, is very different from my coast to close. I get that West Coast East coast like where so maybe seeking things a little bit different, and then middle Americans just like this extreme of like, I don't even know how to tackle at, Like I saw, like, Joe exotic and I'm, like, does exist like no wonder trump want. Like, how is this possible? But I think it goes back to like the distributing the well. I think, you know, we're not going to move towards like something that Communistic. But sometimes I think minorities and themselves, like instead of like, coming together, we push each other down, and I feel like maybe it starts on that. And maybe it starts on the island of like, instead of trying to start from like, white supremist trying to convince them took a penalty. Come on the other side. Like, why don't we all kind of come together and be like, Hey, we're all minorities. We all get like the same. Not the same treatment, but different treatment. Welcome. We don't empower each other like you don't only have the power like the brown girls. Other black girls, like dude like do it for the Asian Do the girl that you see that it's not also getting that that same chance. Like when I went to go vote, uh, in the last election, I had to go in person because I had gave me the wrong ballot. And the girl that was checking this in was Asian, had a strong access, and the white guy in front of me is like I can't hear you. I don't understand. You give me somebody else because I don't know what she's saying. Wishes I could have sent her perfectly fine. Like it was like I speak English to do. Like, I understand what she's saying. And I was like, I'm sorry that you like in front of him. I was like, I'm sorry that you had to go through that. I understand you perfectly fine. And he was kind of like in shock that I called them kind of like called him out. But it's like you can't just just because she wasn't Brown, I wasn't going to stand up for her because I saw that she was going through what? Sometimes my parents, Just because we have a not set, we get treated differently. So maybe it starts on the other side of weak as minorities to regardless of whether brown, yellow, black, whatever we are, we help each other bring each other up like I'm not gonna lie. I have I come from some privilege compared to other Latinos because my parents are stable. They have stability that a lot lot of Latinos don't have and people like, oh Well, maybe you don't understand. I'm like I I saw my parents come from the bottom, but that doesn't mean I'm not because I'm somewhere else that I'm not gonna help other people that are still there. Because I see, like, little brown girl in the hood that I'm like, I know what it feels like and I want you to have the same opportunities that I did. And I think that's where we should come from of like, because we're minorities instead of trying to convince the white people or white to premise because not all white people are bad. Um, trying to convince some took among the other side. But let's all I create a culture of like we all support each other. So now you'll feel like an outsider because you're not being inclusive because you're not empowering other people.

spk_3:   29:15
I think Jessica also brought up the point about like how your Asian roommates, Mom, uh, you know the value to you because, like of your race and the thing just still the crabs in the barrel mentality, like, how do you stop that? Because even that another dangling thing about our is that it will. They'll choose, like Lou. They want, like, the good ones for them and then be like, All right, so you're gonna be arms on our side, and they're gonna be the others. So we'll give you special treatment at songs you enforce our society and our rules. I mean, I was just hard to, like, break through from that, you know, And it again. Like, uh, yeah, I'm half Haitian, which is technically Haitians are, you know, Latinos. Technically, since it's unlikely that in America and the Caribbean and be speaking like language but Dominicans on the other side of the island they you know, it's just like a weird beef like the make and Steve after dark, they'll consider like ations like, Oh, they're not like us. They're they're Africans.

spk_1:   30:14
They're very they're more reticent going like America down there in Dominican Republic.

spk_3:   30:18
Yeah, like, how do you change that mentality? You know, I'm saying how you change that crabs in a barrel mentality when it has been going on for, like, hundreds of years. And it's 10 2020. It's still going to the detriment of like all of us, because now it's like, you know, we need Teoh collectively get our shit together, but they're still divisions, not just in race, not just in culture but even in like politics. And, you know, it's it's just hard to, you know, like you said ignorance. But it's like, How do you fix human ignorance?

spk_0:   30:48
Yeah, I think it's definitely going to take time, and it's going to start by each individual and by educating ourselves. So we we have a way to go. But hopefully, you know,

spk_1:   31:01
seems like we're falling further from it. Then when I was like a teenager,

spk_0:   31:05
maybe we could be We could be going backwards at times as well.

spk_3:   31:10
Joshua shows and wondered, Islander, your It's like it's like Bitcoin that's

spk_1:   31:14
going way up, then way down, then way up, like every decade depends who's president. You know

spk_4:   31:24
where we're much more aware of it now. Like I look back in high school and I think Nancy and I weren't really aware of discrimination. Kind of lived in our own bubble, like our friends were, let me know. But we also had, like, friends over different cold choose

spk_0:   31:39
way were on the Mexico

spk_4:   31:41
aware of it. Yeah, we were the Mexican group. People would call us on were Mexican cheerleaders.

spk_3:   31:49
Yeah, you guys, I think I'm probably all this guy here. You guys air young too? So I I just turned 39. So, like I've seen, like when I was a kid, I grew up during Elect Reagan era seem to Bush era, Seen the Clinton era siendo you know, Obama era. And you know, now that the trump era So it's like most of my life basically has been sort of like Republicans And, like, sort of that narrative of power of, like, you know, make America great again are America's great and fall in line type of thing, You know? So out of maybe you guys like we're in high school during the Obama years or something or I was

spk_2:   32:30
in high school for Yeah, I was in high school for their Obama years, the beginning of the Obama years.

spk_3:   32:36
So you guys have, like, a starter. You guys have the optimism thing going. So that was cool. You guys had that. But like, you know, people are kind of older and stuff. They might see the whole leg. Okay, I've seen this before, you know? So no, no, no, no. I mean, I'm hoping like I opened like there would be I'm hoping we could get out of this crisis with, like, ah, more better idea of like what we're doing here. And what's the point of, like living and being a human instead of like, Oh, I'm just here to make money. That's just like, Yeah, well, even if you're making money, you're not spending it because there's a pandemic out. So what's the point like, what do you really want and value in this existence? And I'm hoping more people will be aware of that. And then we could escape sort of the same bullshit. Lose that we've been falling through, such as race. And you know about that stuff.

spk_0:   33:25
Yeah. Yeah, and it comes with logic. What was that?

spk_4:   33:30
Go ahead and finish it here.

spk_0:   33:33
Um, yeah, and that brings up a lot of other questions of just life in general. So it's good to think about these things and something that Zack, the philosopher Zach talks about, is she? She rejects races, ideals and says that if we view each other as humans and not as a different race or, you know, and if we were doing these things to each other just human to human than it would be a lot more inhumane. Um, so I don't know how we feel about this, because it would be It would be difficult to completely get rid of race, and we also each have our own type of culture. So it would be hard to not have race, but they'll keep your culture. I don't even know if that would be possible.

spk_1:   34:23
When you say get rid of race, I know what it makes me think of. It makes me think of the white, the type of white person who's like I don't see color

spk_0:   34:31
Yes on it talks about about color.

spk_1:   34:33
I don't think that like that. That's like I don't think that's the right way to go about it. I think we lost Jessica, but I don't think it's the way to go about it is to say, like, what's going on?

spk_3:   34:47
Now? I'm here, I'm here. I was just checking Teoh. Yeah, she comes back, we'll get her back in

spk_1:   34:50
their work. I mean, I don't think the color blond misses the way toe is the way to fix anything. You're saying that you don't see race. It's like you're avoiding it, as if that they're, you know, that there's a difference in, like, in, like, level of what you're at. So to say, I don't see color that's like kind of saying, Well, I'm gonna pretend not to see it. I mean, obviously, you do see color, you know, But I'm gonna pretend not to see it because I don't want you to feel backs your lower than me. That's basically what it is.

spk_0:   35:20
So what have you were? Would there be a way to not be color blind and still see people's individuals?

spk_1:   35:28
Um I mean, yeah. I mean, I'm I'm like that some other people could be, but I think like people like me and Hayley, people lack okay with

spk_2:   35:40
Welcome back,

spk_4:   35:40
I Sorry, I have horrible connectivity issues. Okay,

spk_1:   35:46
So, like, yeah, I was, as a sense, like people like me and Hanley of people like, you know, growing up in San Francisco, you have, and it's kind of cool toe have your camaraderie like it's it's nice to be in like a room full of like, I'm half Italian, half blood. I love hanging out of my Italian family and being all engulfed in that culture. Sometimes I love hanging around like black people, like in the city and stuff and like being being like around like people like me. But at the same time like that, that's nice and stuff, but doesn't mean. I mean, I think hanging out with do

spk_2:   36:17
you need on

spk_1:   36:17
him. You know what I'm trying to get at Todd here. Don't

spk_3:   36:21
rapper. You have a talent half black, you know, looks like street crime. You could get with that as a rapper. Your last name's Carter. Get in with that. You know Jay Z, you know, Let's say yours, cousin or something.

spk_1:   36:35
That was That was a rumor I started in high school for sure. No, but you know something? There's something cool about like that. Camaraderie is hanging, hanging around people all in your culture. But I feel like some people just go overboard and, like, are like, Well, I never want to even see a black person. You know what I'm saying? So where how do you draw that line? Like? That's a complicated.

spk_0:   36:58
So it would be hard to not forget about all the discrimination the people of color have been through to not be color blind, but to look at people as individuals. Maybe it's possible. Maybe it's not. It's complicated. What do you

spk_3:   37:14
think? Like I mean, the thing is, I know, remember, like when Obama became president, everyone's like, Oh, we're living in a post coach, post racial society, post racial society. And, you know, in the back of my head, I was like, Yeah, okay, yeah. And then, you know, eight years later, trumpets like back to square one. So I don't think we like, uh, we should demonize like race and cultures. We should, like, celebrate the differences. We should definitely like this school, like to go to a different place and then be and seeing what a different version of humanity could be like. You know, I mean, like, what's there for Superman? What's that? You know, like, that's cool. I just wish that, like like, for example, people in mid intimate middle America and hate like beat upon them. But maybe if they had more culture, or, um, or be exposed to more differences, they see how cool that is. I was, you know, different that spicy foods are not like, you know, all that get like being immersed, you

spk_2:   38:10
know, so and raising a family.

spk_1:   38:12
Just bring down those airfare prices, you know, like keeping a corona virus prices and racism will be eliminated. You know, you never made a racist guy from Iowa When you're vacationing in Mexico, it's always like a cool food from Are you ever notice that

spk_0:   38:27
I do think traveling helps?

spk_1:   38:29
Yeah.

spk_2:   38:30
Yeah, And if it comes from, like, you know, like we were talking about before education. So making sure that the textbooks that these people are getting from and teaching from and reading from are correct. You know, I saw that, um, the language in a textbook was changed to instead of saying slaves and said workers, and that's just not accurate at all. So that that we're teaching is accurate, making sure that, you know, we're having these conversations and to go back a little bit, Josh, to what you were saying about those races. You know, young tick talkers like black Twitter. Check them and it's and that's what it is like. You have to continue to check people because if they go on check, they're gonna think that it's OK. But if you're like, Oh, no, that's actually racist. Deter the n word, which was now where I'm saying the n word, but

spk_1:   39:24
we're to set the example

spk_2:   39:26
right? Well, that was derived from an African language. The name of the language escaped to me, but I'm pretty sure it's from like Western Africa. Um, and they don't have vowels in their written part of the language. So it that it was n g. R. And that term was dispersed. That term means King so that that words NGR, which would

spk_3:   39:50
also negus Vegas in the Ethiopian skiing todo

spk_2:   39:54
which So it means King. So that's why they're like, Oh, well, they call each other that So that's what it means. And it's like the original meaning is that it means Kate. It was a respectful term. And so then when white people came and they heard that and they're like, Well, you all are just a bunch of, you know, change it to a negative term. But most people don't know that that their history less their history books don't go that far back. You know, it's not all accurate, so it's Emmett. So it's not just, um, making sure that the educationist. It's correct. But it's also encouraging other people to find out the answers for themselves and to not, you know, just accept what they here at face value and be like OK, well, I heard Trevor Noah saying so it must be accurate. Like No, do some research for yourself, like stop being lazy because

spk_1:   40:41
we need to teach it in school because, like, no, a lot of people just don't research, you know?

spk_3:   40:47
Why would schools do that? What's their advantage to teach? Like, you know, I'm saying

spk_1:   40:52
there had been, like, a better a better Well, because I feel like it at a certain point. Like you can't. Racism isn't sustainable economically, but

spk_3:   41:02
they don't see that. You just see now they don't see like, the future. They today like, for example, this whole like plant this pandemic, if it was planned, better like if we had, like, better planning, Like, even like a small things like I remember, like, didn't like Trump like the span like Thea. Like a group that was supposed

spk_1:   41:20
to limit Roger Teoh

spk_4:   41:23
Obama had formed. He got rid of it.

spk_3:   41:26
Yeah. Yeah, so I mean, you know, how do you How do you How do you have these people go Look at the long term. Look at the big picture, whether or not they don't even understand what

spk_1:   41:34
they're just a miss quarrel like Yeah,

spk_4:   41:40
yeah, I think sometimes experiences like this, like the pandemic, are what make people realize, because if you think about it like our generations have, younger generations haven't really experienced enough to make them value what they are, what they have. Like, you know, you have so worried movement. You had, like, this system, Chavez days like you have all this that previous generations went through. And I don't think these generations have anything to make them realize I coach shit like there is actually more out there that we should be aware of because I think goes back to, like, what taught? I mentioned of, like, understanding like each other. I think sometimes, you know, like I think I remember but wasn't mentioned that something will don't have. They're not exposed. So they're not aware. And they don't understand of how the experiences air different. Like I was in a woman in business and college, and I was the only not being on the board and we had. She was black, came to talk to us about Internet sexual feminism, and she was saying how all of our experiences are different, like her experience is different than mine experience versus someone who is maybe Asian or Indian, like all of experienced are going to be different. And there is this girl. It's like, Well, why don't we just all say that all like we just got together and like, if nothing does make the lease and then we'll just say like, Oh, well, we all make this least like No, don't say my experience is your experience on broken. It's not the same like, because you will never understand the cultural norm that I grew up with. You will never understand how it's different to be a a little a oh, nothing a woman than a white woman. And it's OK that you don't know that because you don't experience it, but understand that it is different. We we cannot be treated the same, and I think it goes back to just being open minded. And it isn't just because you are educated about it doesn't mean like Senate laminates are acting, but you're suddenly embarrassed are acting different, but understanding and being okay with being different, embracing those differences. And I know that we talked about how before it was, um maybe we were aware of it. But maybe awareness is part of that transition. May. Maybe everything has to be exposed first before we can start making that differences because it gets ugly before it gets nice. So now that everything's being exposed, we're aware we're conscious of it and maybe will make different choices with future. It's gonna take a long time, but we're making progress by exposing it by being open about it and by checking each other. And, like Haley said, like before, we didn't have social media to check each other, to tell people like, Hey, that's not OK And now social media is allowing us to view that maybe we see the ugly, but we also see the people coming together and calling each other out. Let's say that's not OK, and I feel offended by that.

spk_0:   44:20
Yeah, and I think as we were talking about earlier, you also have to start teaching kids this because they're the ones that are going to continue on with whatever beliefs their parents have. Because even I remember as a kid my first language was Spanish and we got separated into the What was the Ile de Class? Do you remember Jessica? Yes. Oh, yeah. And all the white kids used to be like, Oh, look, those are all the the Mexicans that don't know how to read. And I was, like, so me Here. Look, I got out of a quick, but since I moved around so much kid I at each new school, I had to go through it and I was like, Oh, my God, here we go again. But, uh, yeah, it's

spk_2:   45:16
crazy. It's almost like you wish. I wish you were, like, kind of built up more so than in. People are like, Oh, look, those are the Mexicans that'll read, Who can't read? It's like, OK, but did you enjoy Taco Tuesday, though? Wait, you know, call them out. Like, if you're going to make fun of us, then don't use any of our products because we're almost exactly like you

spk_4:   45:36
don't need my food,

spk_2:   45:37
right. Then don't worry. That was

spk_1:   45:39
like people. That's not or sports

spk_2:   45:44
right. Stay out of it. We're done like don't celebrate like you can't just prioritize and celebrate your hand. Select few like, because we come from the same culture. We come from the same, you know, level kind of. It's just, you know, in the system. And then look, you know where we are social standing, Should I say so. Like, we have Asian tour the model minority. We have Latinos and blacks who are, like, kind of a pardon par. Nobody likes Indians. That's okay, Unless there may be accounting department or whatever. I love Indians. I don't mind, but this is what this I didn't create these social standings. I'm just calling them out. But if you don't know if you don't call them out, then nothing will change if you, you know, people don't advocate for themselves or teach their kids to advocate for themselves. Like, you know, I saw this video of this little girl who was crying because she thought she was so ugly. And that may be true here, or even here in America having a thin body, you know, um, Jessica, you might see this living out in California like being thin, being fit, being in shape, that's considered beautiful But in Africa, in a lot of African cultures, being a big woman, that is sexy. That means that you have well, because you have a food that you can eat so much food that you're a big girl like that. Oh, hello. And so then that's, like perfect for them. But even just now, like I posted a tick talk like a few like a week and 1/2 ago, that kind of went viral a little bit, Yes, I'm bragging and I showed pictures of my brother. So my mom is white as we discuss. And my older brother, his dad is full white. I'm half African, and my younger brother is about 1/4 Japanese. But in his senior photos, they airbrushed him enough that I think he looks Mexican. And I recognized that, like, I know that there's not a Mexican look, but working in Russia on in the restaurant industry, I've been around mostly Mexicans and or Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. So I feel like I can if I see one. I'm like, Yes, I know who you are. And that's okay. So I've made this video and I was like, OK, so this milder brother. He's full white. I'm half African. But how did my mom, who's white and my step down who's Asian, create a Mexican? And when I tell you the comments, the comments that I get the bones, not why you all look Mexican, a large really like really popping off and going crazy there like your mom doesn't look quite at all. She looks Mexican like I'm confused like everyone's compute. Some people just get it. They're like alot and psychology right there. I know at first I just have to tell people like it's a joke like last. That is just a joke. It's like a 25 2nd video. Everybody calm down. We're not gonna destroy race and 25 2nd video. But also, the first thing that comes up in my bio on Tic Tac is that I'm a comedian, so it's such a

spk_1:   48:54
good and I

spk_3:   48:56
have a whole thing about doing.

spk_1:   48:58
I mean, one thing about Haley's family. Those there, one Latino away from forming Captain Planet. They're literally black, white, Asian, this missing ones. I wish to give your mama's one more baby in

spk_2:   49:13
her know she already a minute buzz. A ship is docked way.

spk_4:   49:20
Forget like you know, baby.

spk_2:   49:25
Yeah, Well, Marcus, are you His girlfriend is actually Mexican and she Oh, in that he's been dating her for a year. And unfortunately, none of us knows her name was like a much girlfriend. But she's she's the real deal and we love her and she's nice, but none of us know her name is except markets, but that's a separate story. But I have this one lady name and von something or rather she was like, Well, I'm Mexican and all of you are wrong. And Boban, I'm like, No, listen. And von whatever, Berg, you're not Mexican, okay? Like, I don't believe that for a second and she was writing comments of full caps. It's like, Why don't we just take a deep breath because you're a boomer arguing with teenagers, right? Like, wire ticked way

spk_1:   50:20
got were just now I think that's basically we're running low on time. We're gonna go. We could go around, don't do like our final points and then you could just plug like your social media or anything. You want a plug that you got going on, and I guess we could start with Jessica and work our way counterclockwise back to us in the zoo meeting so you could go ahead. Just you want to make a final point and pray whatever.

spk_4:   50:44
Well, I guess my final would point it would be to embrace the intersectionality of our differences. I think being different is beautiful. I love learning about different cultures and, um, learning about different people and where they came from, Whether it's like, historically or just like your background, I think that if we could embrace that, um, we could be a much better society. And it was great to meet all of you guys and, like, we got to know what everyone's from. I really enjoyed this experience, Thank you. Know, and super inviting me on. And I have my personal Mr Graham page word. I'm I post a lot of what I dio just some I get. I am involved with a lot of things. As I mentioned, I'm a consultant, Um, or the second X business group. Um, I also do freak advising for the Small Business Development Center, where SP agency, Um and we also have ah known profit called Deccan X Community, where we do work with, um, school students, parents and small businesses trying to create an ecosystem of different generations helping each other out to make make us grow and prosper. And we re definitely love to get new polar John people who wanna collab and do different things. But I post a lot of it on my personal page with which gives j Jessica dot Marino's Mun ot pickle of people don't know how to spell it sometimes. Um, so they let me pay me up. If you have any questions, I'm always free to mentor. Talk to people. I'm very transparent. So it was great to meet you all.

spk_1:   52:17
Good to meet you too.

spk_0:   52:18
Thank you.

spk_2:   52:19
Yeah. Who's next? Cause I think by

spk_3:   52:24
yeah, roll. Like God. Really? Yeah. So,

spk_2:   52:32
uh, my my final thoughts are I think it's definitely about exposure. It's about education. It's about, um, you know, wanting Teoh get that information for yourself, You know? So that self education as well. Um, but yeah, I I had a great time talking about this. I definitely think that you know, if you have ah, thought that's too easily accepted by yourself, maybe you should chance challenge it. You know, especially. We all got the free time. So let's do it especially now. So my social media is at M S h a l e y strong. So at Miss Hayley strong. Um, I spelled out my first name because there's a lot of variations for Haley. Um and yeah. So come check me out. I'm, uh, gonna have a lot of fun and exciting things on there.

spk_0:   53:25
Cool. Awesome. Thank you. Last,

spk_1:   53:29
at least from HBO's crashing.

spk_3:   53:35
Well, I know you guys are young, so, uh, you know, I'm getting older, So the plan, it's up to you. It's up to you to save the planet. I don't give a fuck anymore. Lost cause kidding. Go. But, you know, the good thing is that we have, like, young people like you. It seems like as long as there's still optimism and stones, there's still people out there that want to do right and want to change the world. I feel like ultimately when when our backs are against the wall, we're gonna have to make a choice of like, all right, we got to do the right thing. So hopefully this seems like the backed are our backs are against the wall, and hopefully we'll evolved from that. So I'm open for evolution. Obviously, with evolution is some growing pains, but hopefully, hopefully 10 20 years from now, you know we'll be flying in space cars cause and will be laughing about, like the cara were like bad TV shows about you. Remember the pandemic? A quarantine fashion, remember that? That was great.

spk_1:   54:32
Well, the government now the government now saying that we analyst goes so like now we're gonna Bailey. And so they're gonna let us use the teleportation and shit that they've been hiding.

spk_3:   54:45
I hope so, Yeah. You can find me at Monte Gila on a instagram m o n t i k i L l A Also at the U G comedy show page on Comedy show where I do nightly every night we do at 10 p.m. Eastern. We do like instagram live shows many interviews with comedians, artists, uh, people like, you know, can you know everybody's pretty fun, like hang out show while everyone's like warranties. So yeah, and yet todd dot Monsey, find me on the monster television. Just cool. Bold May PN and Friends of Cool Web series of watch. Just Google, Todd Mancienne You'll find me t o T D D o! Look at my name. My name right there, Todt.

spk_1:   55:28
All right, guys. Great to have you guys. And, uh,

spk_0:   55:31
where can I follow you?

spk_1:   55:32
Oh, yeah, s Oh, yeah, This has been an episode of But why, though with Josh Carter and Nancy Lopez you could follow my Twitter and instagram it. Gosh, Carter, that's gos HCR t e r.

spk_0:   55:46
And you can follow me at Miss Nancy M S N a Y a N c I. And you can follow our podcast a B W t podcast

spk_1:   55:59
and feel free to hit those five star reviews, Baby, give us those five stars. We love democratic socialism of reviews. Give us the stars out of saying Give us those five star reviews, please, and share this podcast. Listen to it. Subscribe. We're going to see you again soon. Thank you, guys.