343 A Tour of Debbie Flower's Garden

We pay a visit to the garden of America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower. It’s a living classroom on thriving  low water use plants.

Debbie talks in detail about the plants, many of which are California natives, and discusses the strategies of hydrozoning (grouping plants together based on their watering needs), designing focal points and the ongoing tasks of restraining plants (lots of pruning). Of course, we throw in all sorts of garden tips. It’s another fun, scenic bypass chat.

By the way, what’s a garden tour without pictures? Get a look at the plants we’re talking about, in this week’s Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter. 

It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery.

Previous episodes, show notes, links, product information, and transcripts at the home site for Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, GardenBasics.net. Audio, transcripts, and episode chapters also available at Buzzsprout.

Pictured: A portion of Debbie Flower’s low-water use garden

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Olla Watering Pots

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Transcript

Farmer Fred   

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred

We continue our tour of gardens with a visit to the garden of America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower. It’s a living classroom on how to get low water use plants to thrive, especially when dealing with such urban obstacles as imported fill soil, septic systems, leach lines and tempermental watering systems. Debbie talks in detail about the plants, many of which are California natives, and discusses the strategies of hydrozoning, designing focal points and the ongoing tasks of keeping them from overtaking each other, and the pathways. Of course,we throw in all sorts of garden tips. It’s another fun, scenic bypass chat.

It’s all in Episode 343 of today’s Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast: Debbie’s Garden Tour.

By the way, what’s a garden tour without pictures? Get a look at the plants we’re talking about, in this week’s Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, which will also have this podcast, so you can listen to what we have to say and scroll down to see the plants and paraphernalia, such as the Green Cone Composter and the ancient but effective watering system for new plants, the Olla, as well. Find a link to the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter in today’s show notes, or go to substack.com/gardenbasics and subscribe, as well. It’s free.

Meanwhile, we’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory,  it’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

TOUR OF DEBBIE’S GARDEN, Pt. 1

Farmer Fred

Recently, we did a little podcast tour of my garden here, along with Debbie Flower. So it's only fair that we visit Debbie Flower’s house and take a look at her garden. And I'll tell you, it is amazing. It is mostly a California native garden. But there are a lot of plants here and like any true gardener, it's a case of, “let's plant this here and see if it works”. And there are a lot of plants here that are probably more successful than you want. But then again, that's the whole point of it. And you even have a lawn, Debbie! But it's a special lawn.

Debbie Flower  

it's my husband's lawn. He'll tell you that. It's his lawn. I didn't want a lawn. But he did. It’s a compromise, in that it's a native species of grass, which we put in as seed. And they're mostly fescues; fescues that grow in the sun. And this patch is primarily in the sun, they are bunch grasses, so it's a lumpy lawn, 

Farmer Fred

So you don't need to mow it that much. 

Debbie Flower

No, he has string trimmed it or weed whacked it twice this spring when it goes into flower, because I'm allergic to grass, especially grass pollen, and it doesn't look as nice then. It's not pure. Bermuda grass has moved in,  oak trees have grown from the nearby acorns falling from the nearby tree. But it satisfies him, and that's okay with me.

Farmer Fred    

Happy husband, happy life? I forget, something like that. But it's not that big. It's maybe 150 square feet, right? 

Debbie Flower

It's not big at all. it's just a nice little patch of green. 

Farmer Fred

But it is surrounded by annuals, perennials, shrubs, trees… and looking down your driveway that leads to the street, is that a fried egg plant I see?

Debbie Flower   

Yeah, it's a Romneya coulteri (Matilja poppy). It's actually past its peak bloom. It's a perennial, and it's a native to California. And the flowers are large, probably five inches across, with white petals with a yellow center. That's the common name, fried egg plant.

Farmer Fred   

It is a gorgeous little shrub and it gets maybe  eight to 10 feet tall, if that? 

Debbie Flower   

Yeah, that's it. That's what you're seeing. So the fence is about five feet tall, so the shrub is probably eight feet tall.

Farmer Fred    

That's an interesting combination of plants here. The aras has  some evergreen shrubs throughout this area, which would be great bird sanctuary.

Debbie Flower   

I do have lots of birds. When we moved in, we are on what's called a “flag lot”, meaning the driveway is the flagpole and then the lot with the house on it is the flag itself. And there wasn't much at all on the flagpole end. The Hollywood junipers at the end were there, and then the navel orange, the oak, bay, arborvitae, and the banana shrub. They we're all here. And so we've just maintained it. The banana shrub, the bay and the arborvitae are evergreen plants. And on the other side the neighbors have Photinia and privet, which are also evergreen. They've let them grow tall. So it's a nice dense place. You see Jays, in particular, coming in and out of here. And hummingbirds, I believe, have a nest in here as well.

Farmer Fred 

That show for the nose, the banana shrub, is one of my favorites. I'm not sure how many USDA zones you can grow it in (USDA Zones 7-10),  and recently changed its genus from Michaelia,it was Michaelea Figo, and now it's a Magnolia figo. And it is a shrub. It doesn't look like any Magnolia you've ever seen. It's got a smaller leaf and the flowers, I won't say they're insignificant, but you just love their aroma in April.

Debbie Flower  

Yeah, you have to get close to the shrub to get it. When I moved in, the driveway with just concrete, went all the way up to the front porch. And that plant was suffering, it was yellow. It didn't have much root zone, and it was getting reflected light into it. And that's not ideal for that plant. I was noticing this is probably the first year that it's looked really good. I suspect that's because we've had two years of good water.

Farmer Fred 

Two years of winter rains and you've got some, shall we say, overstory growth, too, going around it, giving it a bit more shade. .

Debbie Flower   

Yes, afternoon shade. 

Farmer Fred

And  for a banana shrub. It's pretty tall. It's like 20 feet tall, Right

Debbie Flower

Yes.

Farmer Fred    

Congratulations, I think.

Debbie Flower    

I had nothing to do with it. We  changed the driveway. So it's no longer reflecting onto the plant. Other than that, I haven't done much. 

Farmer Fred   

Of, course there are all sorts of California native plants here as you've probably gleaned if you've been listening to us, but you have one here that is very common. You have several species of it. It’s butterfly weed.

Debbie Flower  

butterfly weed, right, I have the narrowleaf butterfly weed here in the front of the porch, that one I have seen monarchs on it is not as showy as the speciosa, which is around the oak tree. But it is seems to be a better host here locally for monarch butterflies. And they are in bloom right now. So that's nice. They smell, you have to get up close to the flower. They have a nice sweet smell.

Farmer Fred   

You also have some plants that you probably would never see in a nursery, like a tower of jewels plant, 

Debbie Flower   

right. I started those from seed. And the first ones were actually about eight feet tall. But then it reseeds itself wherever it chooses, or wherever I dragged the dead plant to, because there's still seeds in the dead plant. And it is a very big favorite of the hummingbirds. It's a Mediterranean native, but when it first grew, it was visible from the street, all the way up my driveway, and people would stop at the end of my driveway and point. You're right that It isn't something you see at a nursery, because it is a biennial, and sometimes it takes a third year to come into flower. And you don't know what you're getting. You wouldn't know what you're getting when you bought the one year old plant. 

Farmer Fred   

It seems to enjoy full sun as well. It seems to have a more of a vibrant bloom in full sun. 

Debbie Flower    

Yes, a redder bloom. Yeah.

Farmer Fred  8:19  

It's an interesting display you have here. You've got two Tower of Jewels, and in the middle of it would be the Tower of Jewels in year one, while the two towers are year two. 

Debbie Flower   

Yes. that wasn't done on purpose. It just happened. There had been some right up against the oak tree a couple of years ago and they seeded, and this group of three came in.

Farmer Fred    

And, like you say, once you plant them, you'll have them forever. Do you have to stake them?

Debbie Flower   

The one on the right I staked when we had a lot of wind and rain earlier in spring. I did have that one fall over onto the lawn and I pulled it up and staked it. That's the only time. generally no, but in those situations where many things tend to fall over, I did.

Farmer Fred    

and then it dies.

Debbie Flower   

Right. It dies. And I have dead carcasses around. I'm not a designer, but I say, “oh, it might look nice over there”. I was thinking of pulling  one of them back to where the two Mahonia are, and put it in front of them or between them, and have some Tower of Jewels in that area.

Farmer Fred  

Is that the Mahonia aquifolium, The Oregon grape?

Debbie Flower    

No, they are special Mahonia  that I got from a friend. “Ozzie Johnson”. It's trademarked, it's the bigger ones. It's bigger because it gets afternoon shade there. And the other one is “Arthur Menzies” and they were from a friend and he got them from Dan Hinkley, if you know that name. 

Farmer Fred  

Yes, Dan Hinkley is the plant wanderer, the plant explorer, who travels the world looking for unusual plants.

Debbie Flower  

And Michael lived here, he was a student of mine and he became a friend. And then he moved to Idaho. And when he moved to Idaho, he gave away a lot of his plants. And he has since had a brain tumor and died. Nice to have a memory. 

Farmer Fred  

Exactly. Yeah. It's really nice that these Tower of Jewels are framed with that scarlet oak behind it. that really sets it off. 

Debbie Flower    

Yes. not planned at all.

Farmer Fred   

Luck and design. Yes. Sometimes they go together. What is that next to it with the pink flowers?

Debbie Flower   

That is a geranium.

Farmer Fred   

A true geranium?

Debbie Flower   

I don't think so. No, it's a Pelargonium. I don't have it in here.

Farmer Fred   

We should point out Debbie is working from her Excel sheet, which is four pages of plants in very small print.

Debbie Flower   

right. Gotta try to save paper here. Yes, I think it is a true geranium. I think it was found at the old governor's mansion in downtown Sacramento. And I had students working there, kind of on an internship, identifying plants, labeling plants, writing out descriptions of the plants. At the time the old governor's mansion was under the purview of the California State Parks Association. And it was so that those people could convey the information about the park and that’s when the geranium was found. And it was not identified. And so the Geranium Society came in with their experts, and they couldn't identify it. So the woman who worked in the parks department, whose last name was Hanson, I believe, got to name it, and it was named, and she let me take cuttings. And so I did. And it is the most floriferous plant. In teaching, the students take cuttings  for their herbarium and I would take them for the quiz. And I got it at Land Park, which is a park here in Sacramento that our friend Daisy Mah took care of for decades, and started it, too. And it has grown where it wants to grow. That's a true geranium.

Farmer Fred   

And that's in the shade. It's under the scarlet oak tree whereas this unknown Pelargonium or geranium is in more sun, right?

Debbie Flower   

Yet a part of it is under the oak and it is blooming up a storm. I had a party here. People from out of state, I don't think anyone at that party was from California, and this was a big hit. Everybody wanted pieces of it. Not a good time to take cuttings when it's in flower. No.

Farmer Fred   

But what are you going to do?

Debbie Flower   

I gave them cuttings anyway.

Farmer Fred   

So behind us now we should talk about this Palo Verde tree, which has a very unusual trunk color. It is like US Army green, I guess, or something like that.

Debbie Flower  

“Verde” means green. And I think “Palo” means wood. You’ll have to check me on that (sort of true - “palo” is Spanish for “stick”). It is native to the southwest. My husband is from Tucson, Arizona, and loves the plants of the Southwest. And so this one is the “Desert Museum” cultivar,  it is thornless. So that's very nice. It's in bloom right now.  I subscribe to some feeds from gardeners and nurseries in in the Tucson area, and they're advocating sort of unofficially, for “Palo Verde time”, just like there's cherry blossoms in Washington, there should be a celebration of Palo Verdes in Tucson, because the whole thing is yellow. And if you look at the ground, the ground is all covered in yellow petals. And it is a fantastic pollinator or pollen provider.

Farmer Fred   

There's only about one zillion bees in this tree. 

Debbie Flower   

Yes. And it hums away. I got it as a young tree. I have seen one Palo Verde “desert museum” as a single leader tree. And I was trying to keep it that way. And it just would not. It wouldn’t. It kept throwing suckers from the base and I finally gave up and let it do that. And it leans because the morning sun is blocked by the bay tree and the oak to the east. So I need to do some pruning to raise the canopy and to just shape it a little bit. But I'm not going to do that until it's done blooming because I want the pollinators to get as much pollen as they can out of it.

Farmer Fred   

Why do gardeners have the habit of finding flaws instead of beauty when showing their garden

Debbie Flower   

That was a problem I had when I worked at a retail nursery. That would be, “You want this? Well, you know it's going to do this, that and the other thing”. 

Farmer Fred    

All right, but being that this tree is  fine in Arizona, it probably does not require that much water. In fact, most of the plants here as I look through your garden, these are low water use plants, generally. Yeah, but I do see some drip lines through here.

Debbie Flower 

Yes, I need to move mulch over here. It's a far distance from the mulch pile for here. This is the driest bed in my yard.  They are hydrozoned and so I put in plants that I think will tolerate that dry or low watering and the Palo Verde is certainly one of them. Yes.

Farmer Fred   

Yeah. And it has color, and you think well okay for a low water use garden, it probably has a very short season of color. But the salvias over there, they're gonna give you months of color.

Debbie Flower  

Yes, they're going into flower and it’s a purple sage. So it's a purple flower. The euphorbias had lime green. Unfortunately, my husband loves this Euphorbia  characias subsp. wulfenii . (Mediterranean spurge). It seeds around like crazy. So I only let it bloom for a short period. And I cut the flowers out. They were yellow in spring. You gave me these calendulas, which are waning right now, but they have provided color for a long time. This is an Eriogonum sulfuratum, I think is this specific epithet. But what's the common name? That's where I fall down? I don't know the common name. 

Farmer Fred

Buckwheat.

Debbie Flower

Buckwheat. Yes. It's sulfur buckwheat. And he flowers were yellow. Now they're turning sort of a rusty color. I had two of them. The other one didn't do real well. A white native Iris, Pacific Coast Iris, that's a white one. And behind the lavender is Verbena . It's a native verbena, Verbena lilacina de la mina. Got that?

Farmer Fred   

Got it. All right, a very musical name.

Debbie Flower   

It's in its second year. It's been tough to get established. But I'm happy to see it blooming quite well this year. And then the hesperaloes. They are not native. it's just beginning to bloom with the pink stalks,  and they will get very long. they have more improved Hesperaloes where the the flowering stock isn't so big. This looks manageable, but they get up into the Palo Verde tree, and are  probably eight feet long. Bent over, it kind of becomes a problem. And then this is a Russian sage, a cultivar that had a blue bloom. I need to get in there. I'd like keep it lower. But the way I keep it lower is to get in there and thin. I take cuts very near the soil. And so I find the tallest guy and move all the way down and cut it out. Pull it out. It's a messy job. 

Farmer Fred

Yeah, I would think you'd be scratched at the end of it. 

Debbie Flower

Yeah, but I wear gloves and an apron and those arm protective things and do it during the cool time of day. You just do a little bit and then come back the next day or a few days later and do some more. I don't like to shear it because then you end up with a whole dead inside and and just a shell of leaves and flowers on the outside.

Farmer Fred  

So unlike Martha Stewart, you don't have an army of landscapers. 

Debbie Flower  

No, I'm the gardener. It's me. Yes, I don't have landscaper at all.

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TOUR OF DEBBIE’S GARDEN, Pt. 2

Farmer Fred

Let's get back to our early June tour of the garden of Debbie Flower. 

Tell me about your soil, because one trait of California natives or drought tolerant plants is they need quick draining soil. And this area is more known for clay than it is quick draining soil.

Debbie Flower    

Right? Well, this area was the driveway. And what do you put under concrete? Here, it is stone, which we didn't take out. So it's a very shallow soil here, and it doesn't get a lot of water. The other is we lived here 10 years before we found out we're on septic. And I don't know where the leach field is. 

Farmer Fred

That's an issue. 

Debbie Flower

So I don't really know what this is, but it's shallow soil. I have come across some rocks. And I think my house, this lot, is built on fill. I'm not positive about that. But when I dig down, I see layers in some parts of the yard and not in other parts of the yard. 

Farmer Fred

Did the house originally have a well? 

Debbie Flower

Originally this property belonged to the house behind. And that's a big two story house, unlike the rest of the houses here. I am not aware that it had a well. We are on city water, which runs up the flagpole.

Farmer Fred   

Being a country boy from Heralld, I can tell you that the leach field was always opposite the well.

Debbie Flower  

My husband thinks he knows that the leach field is this direction, meaning east of the house and possibly under this bed.

Farmer Fred    

All right. Well, as Erma Bombeck said, the grass is greener over the septic tank. Right? So I would imagine a lot of these plants have a history about where they came from. What is the oldest plant that you have here? Do you have anything that you grew up with in New Jersey?

Debbie Flower   

The Lychnis I grew up with, but I didn't bring it here. I planted it though, because my mother would get it every year and plant it in front of the house, and I thought it was pretty and it reminds me of her. I don't think I brought any plants from when I was a kid. This Sago palm was given to me when I was a graduate student at UC Davis in 91 and 92. 

Farmer Fred

That seems like just yesterday to some people. 

Debbie Flower

but for others, it was before they were born. And it was a another graduate student in horticulture, wanted to see if you could grow a baby from the pups. And this was one of the babies from the pups. And I had a container for a long time and it struggled. I put it in the ground here and it's been very happy. Although it does get sort of burned. You can see some burn, because I'm chintzy with the water. This is the second driest bed here. And actually this half of the bed. You can see the supply line popping up over there. This half of the bed is as dry as the other bed we were looking at with the Palo Verde in it. So it's doesn't get as much water as it would really like, but it always recovers. So I'm letting it go.

Farmer Fred   

So that green lid over there is not the lid of your septic tank?

Debbie Flower  

After we found out we were on septic we had somebody come in and find it and raise the lid so we knew where they were.

Farmer Fred   

That's always a good idea. Oh by the way,  for getting bright morning sun, that sago palm is looking fabulous. I imagine it's getting shade though in the afternoon.

Debbie Flower  

It gets more, now that the Crataegus, the Washington Hawthorn, has gotten larger. And this mesquite next to it doesn't really shade it too much. But yeah, it does get some shade in the afternoon but you see there's burn on this side that gets the afternoon sun. 

Farmer Fred  

Okay, now say something nice about it.

Debbie Flower   

It's a really nice anchor point in the garden. It's a very interesting plant. It's geologically old,  itl ived here when the dinosaurs lived here. Not “here” specifically, but  it's done really well. It's very satisfying for me.

Farmer Fred   

It's a conifer, isn't it? 

Debbie Flower   

Yeah, I assume I have a male. They are dioecious plants, separate male and female, I have never had any seed. Once they start producing seed, they go nuts. And  they don't have to be very old to produce seed. When I was teaching, we would get seed from a gentleman who lived in Lincoln, and apparently there was a female plant around their pool. And it would seed every year and he'd bring in the seed, and we'd start them from seed, too.

Farmer Fred 

This is a beautiful garden and because you didn't give me two reasons why this is a good plant, here’s another. It's right next to your front door. So it's a good focal point for your front door.

Debbie Flower   

Yes, that's true. And I read somewhere, I'm not a designer and I just I decided you have to have a gene, a certain gene, to be a good designer, but I  tried reading the books about it and such. They said that you should have a focal point. Maybe the tallest tree in the landscape or something, yes, to draw people to your front door. And this does that.

Farmer Fred   

You also have in your yard something you've talked about on the podcast, too. And that is a fountain with a slow drip of water going into this bowl that  might be a few inches deep.

Debbie Flower    

That's the bird bath. It's right outside the kitchen window. I should have shown you that from the inside. The little bit of design I do is from inside, I stand at the window and look out and see what would I like here and I'm actually planning to get  another bird bath to put outside these windows. This is where I sit, inside here, and read. And  my son and his wife gave me a sprayer. So we have a lot of hummingbirds in the yard. And I want to put a birdbath here with a sprayer on it, and attract the hummers.

Farmer Fred   

That is the slowest drip I've ever seen. It's like one drop every 10 seconds.

Debbie Flower    

The adjustments are hard to make. It's just a little rubber or plastic valve attached to the hose bib, which is under that metal rod right there. And it's either off, slow, or so fast, it’s dripping over the side. But it's enough that the birds see it. And the drip rate changes with temperature.

Farmer Fred    

How deep is that particular bowl?

Debbie Flower   

I never measured I guess two inches.

Farmer Fred   

But the birds still use it as a bath. 

Debbie Flower  

The bigger birds, the Jays use it as a bath. The finches and the titmice, and those other little birds, the wrens, stand on the dripper. And drink out of the hole. I’ve seen Yellow Jackets stand on the edge and drink and the smaller birds stand on the edge and drink. So for the other one,  I'm going to go to a wildlife store and ask them what would be a good hummingbird bird feeder. They say the hummers like to fly through water to wash themselves off, they don't get in it like the Jay does. So I want to provide something for them. And it needs to be shallower.

Farmer Fred 

That's interesting that you mentioned that. Because I noticed on my own fountain in the backyard, the other day I stuck a hose in it to refill it and walked away to go do something else, because that's what you do in a garden. And I came back, and of course, it's overflowing from the sides. But there were all these birds, including hummingbirds, beneath the fountain, which is maybe three and a half feet tall. And they're whipping around just above ground level just to get through that falling water.

Debbie Flower    

A shower, like a shower. Yeah. Yeah. See? There's a finch.

Farmer Fred   

Yep. That's a very nice little fountain you've got there. Yes, the slow drip is actually very soothing.

Debbie Flower    

The fence around it is may be a little bit of a eyesore. But I have cats and there are other cats in the neighborhood and I just don't want to invite the birds in and have the cats. Take them out.

Farmer Fred    

Yeah, especially since there are too many perches around here for the cats to scope them out without being seen.

Debbie Flower    

Right. Right. A favorite is under this pittosporum here. Yeah.

Farmer Fred   

And you've got something here that you talked about on a recent podcast too, in talking about your your Wilder garden is the Wilder pathway, the gardener's pathway.

Debbie Flower    

 Yep, yep. This is one of those paths I talked about where I will prune things out of the way, some of these branches of the abutilon get in the way and I prune them out because I need this path. You have to be able to get through the garden. And this is the path. I used to have one going 90 degrees from it, but it has become overgrown.

Farmer Fred   

Yeah, it's about a foot, foot and a half wide and it meanders through the garden up here. Right.

Debbie Flower  

In fact, I cut that abutilon back. that's the stump of it. It then came up a little further from the path, which was perfect.

Farmer Fred   

Yeah, unfortunately, I recognize stumps of abutilon. Now very easily since that tree and from our neighbor's house fell in our yard a couple of winters ago. And like any good gardener, Debbie also has a big pile of mulch waiting to be moved. Yeah. All right. We're over here at the end of the driveway in front of the garage. And there are some plants that look sort of familiar and others that are wacky. One of my favorite wacky plants right here is this Verbena bonariensis (purpletop vervain) that puts up these beautiful blooms on long shoots. Yes.

Debbie Flower   

And it's another one that seeds itself around, you get to know what it looks like in the seedling stage and pull it out because you don't want it everywhere. But  I thought it was such a positive accident that it came in front of this tree, It's called a Fat Albert blue spruce. So the gray blue of the blue spruce with the purple in front of it, I thought was very pretty. And then there's the desert willow over here. A very drought tolerant plant. Mine has never grown very fast. And I think it's because it's so close to the driveway. But I took a cutting and started one when my son lived here in Sacramento and gave it to him and his grew huge and he never watered it. And it blooms these beautiful orchid like flowers. When we first moved in there was nothing here, except on the fence was the neighbor's wisteria and I didn't want the view of their yard. So I put in the Eleagnus over here, which is the variegated green and yellow, a very drought tolerant plant. This is a toyon blooming with the white flower. That's a Rhaphiolepis in the back, which I think maybe needs to be trimmed a little bit. The grass is deergrass. And then this is Texas privet (New Mexico Privet) behind it, which is another drought tolerant plant. It's a deciduous plant and it produces fruit that birds like. So that combination, they're fighting it out. The Eleagnus has been more aggressive, more assertive than I anticipated. And I go in periodically and whack on it. As I said, the rhaphiolepis (Indian hawthorn) probably needs to be brought down and the Bermuda grass is coming up in the deergrass. So in cooler weather, I will climb under there and pull it out. 

Farmer Fred   

And the privet. Is this a nice pivot, or a thug? 

Debbie Flower   

Well, that's its common name. It’s a nice privet. It is not in the same genus as the privet that we find here. This is a New Mexican privet (aka Desert Olive),  for the desert, all of Texas. Forestiera Neomexicana.

Farmer Fred   

you're right. That's not a privet, right.

Debbie Flower    

It's native from North Central California to Riverside, east to Colorado and Texas. Good bird plant for food and cover.

Farmer Fred    

Looks like it would be either a large shrub or a small tree. Right.

Debbie Flower    

 There's another gardeners path behind. I'm only pruning it to keep it out of the path and I just want to see what it's going to do.

Farmer Fred   

It's not evergreen, though, is it?

Debbie Flower   

 No, it's deciduous. 

Farmer Fred   

Okay, because if your goal was a privacy screen, you'd want evergreens, but the Euonymus is evergreen.

Debbie Flower   

And the toyon and the Raphiolepis. And the Fat Albert blue spruce.

Farmer Fred   

And then you have something coming up over there. Which looks like I don't know what that is. It's or you probably planted it there underneath the shade of this other plant that I don't know what it is. This is called

Debbie Flower   

a California pepper tree, but it's native to California and it's not a pepper. It just smells kind of like a pepper. 

Farmer Fred

Is it a Schinus molle? 

Debbie Flower

Yes.  And they are notorious for leaning. Yeah. So we've taken some branches out of it. And we should probably take a little more. This  plant over here is a ribes.

Farmer Fred   

A wild berry.

Debbie Flower    

Ribes aureum. And  it does need some shade. The only place I really saw it happy was on the side of Putah Creek on the UC Davis campus. And so I'm unsure. It's only been here about two years, three years. Not sure how it's going to do. But so far, so good. So we'll let it go. the pepper tree will come down to the ground. So I pruned some out yesterday. So the gardener's path is open. And so the wisteria climbs the pepper tree. So I have to tame that. I took a bunch out of that yesterday. It's amazing what can happen overnight.

Farmer Fred    

You get any blowback on that?

Debbie Flower 

no, Catherine, my neighbor, is very good. Not a problem. 

Farmer Fred   

Okay, that's good.  And in this area, I don't see any drip lines here.

Debbie Flower  

They're here. you can see him over there. I tried to keep them covered for their life. Of course, then you don't know where they are. But try not to keep them on the surface.

Farmer Fred   

And you have a greenhouse, which we should always mention when people have greenhouses because every good gardener should have a greenhouse.

Debbie Flower   

Right. And I'm having trouble getting my beans to germinate. I think the drainage in my raised bed is not as good as they would like. So I put some in pots. I have a rosemary right here. It finished blooming for now, but it will bloom again. And it's moving where it wants to go. But I have it for culinary purposes. I like to have my herbs. I have sage in a pot, thyme in a pot, thyme in the ground, rosemary, oregano, marjoram. So when I want herbs, I can get them myself. And my sister in law wants some. So I took cuttings of that and put that all here, it’s sitting in the greenhouse but covered in some shade cloth.

Farmer Fred   

So this is all  happening under the shade of a tree, which to me, looks like a zelkova.

Debbie Flower   

it is. it's the cultivar or ‘wireless’. So I am surrounded on three sides by power lines. I have met the SMUD vegetation team. SMUD  is our utility electric utility. And they have a vegetation management group. And they come and check your property. Not all that often. But they chart what needs to be cut down, out of the powerlines. So anything over about 25 feet has to be cut down. And they then send out a crew that just whacks away at the top until the plant is three feet below the power line. 

Farmer Fred

And then it grows back. 

Debbie Flower

and then it grows back. Right. So I tried not to put things in the way that would get into those. And it's the High Tension lines. It's the one at the top. The low ones are the internet providers and phone service and that kind of thing. And they're not a problem. so this is the ‘wireless’ cultivar, and its job in the garden is to shade the patio. And it's finally, in the last few years,  gotten to the point  where it’s big enough that it is doing that. 

Farmer Fred   

you mentioned on a previous episode about your food garden and guarding it are birds who like to perch on poles. I see some poles over here next to your raised beds. Is that where the birds perch to look for tomato worms?

Debbie Flower   

They perch on the cages themselves. They perch on the power lines above and Yeah, anything they can find, they do perch. 

Farmer Fred

Yeah. And go to work.

Farmer Fred   

DAVE WILSON NURSERY

Farmer Fred

We'll continue our tour of Debbie Flower’s garden right after this word from our friends at Dave Wilson Nursery. 

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TOUR OF DEBBIE’S GARDEN, Pt. 3

 Let's get back to our early June tour of the garden of Debbie Flower.

Farmer Fred    

Now what is this? Is this an apricot tree? It’s loaded!

Debbie Flower    

An apricot .it's the earliest apricot I’m aware of . so I hope you take some home with you, we are inundated. 

Farmer Fred

What kind of apricot? 

Debbie Flower

I don't know, it came with the house.

Farmer Fred    

Can you make daiquiris with it?

Debbie Flower    

Oh, I'm sure you can.  And I got this part pruned out yesterday. Here's my white sage in bloom. Yeah. And then here’s the Manzanita, a really common one. 

Farmer Fred

Doctor Hurd? 

Debbie Flower

No, not Doctor Hurd.

Debbie Flower   

Howard McMinn? 

Farmer Fred

Oh, it's Howie! 

Debbie Flower

It's Howie, yes. And a whole bunch of California poppies. And a redbud. And I stood here and saw the holes in the leaves. The leaf cutter bees use the leaf of this plant to line their nests. And then they lay their eggs in the lining. And I happened to stand here one day and there was a leaf cutter bee doing its thing. And I was so shocked. I just stood there. And then I figured I should just take a picture. Well, of course by that time, They're done. See, the apricots? They’re all falling to the ground. We need to clear that for the fruit. 

Farmer Fred

You have a paper bag? 

Debbie Flower

I have a lot of bags in the house. Okay.

Farmer Fred    

I got bags too. So among your wacky plant collections, you have this asparagus sprengeri. Tell us about this.

Debbie Flower   

Well, that was in a pot when I moved here. And you know, the first place you plant is where you have water. So the first drip line we put it in was within this area. And of course, I don't think this zelkova was in by then. And so I planted this and it's done well. It's in the gardeners path, which it's one of the places where I haven't subdued the plant to keep the gardeners path open because you can brush past it. It doesn't hurt you. It would look much better somewhere else. But I don't have the heart to dig it up. 

Farmer Fred   

Here’s something we have done a little chat on a couple of years ago or so. your cattle watering troughs filled with bamboo. have they escaped yet? 

Debbie Flower  

No. Now there's a hole in the irrigation in the middle one I gotta fix but nope, they're doing just fine.

Farmer Fred    

Giving you the privacy screen.

Debbie Flower   

right by the windows in the house. They are a little bit messy, when they come up  they send up a new culm, which is a stem, it's surrounded by the leaf parts and are surrounded by a sheath and that falls off and you get these little bits you can see them here in the crack in the concrete. Other than that, they're wonderful. They take little pruning as the culms die. Take them out by pruning. That's where I get my stakes.

Farmer Fred   

 let's talk about your Green Cone.  There's your Green Cone composter in the middle of the garden.

Debbie Flower  

  I've lived here 12 years, and it's never been emptied.

Farmer Fred   

I see why you say you put a rock on the lid so it doesn't blow off. Yes.

Debbie Flower    

My husband always takes it off. But it did blow off when we had the winds earlier in spring, we couldn't find it for a couple of weeks. Finally found it down there by the Brugmansia. 

Farmer Fred   

So the kitchen scraps that you put in the Green Cone here are feeding your herb garden here, right?

Debbie Flower   

Borage,  and these are straw flowers I just put in for this year. I have the borage here because it's near the vegetable garden, and it is attractive to pollinators. This bed is not doing well, I think I have to dig it out, which is going to be a huge job and add amendments. I don't think it has enough organic matter in it. I don't think the drainage is good. But a couple of tomatoes are doing fine. The Juliet is doing very well. And then beyond the one that's covered in shade is a Bush Early Girl, and the uncovered one in the shade is the Bush Early Girl that's been struggling like crazy. And then here's parsley. Like I said, I like to grow my herbs. One is going to seed. Parsley is a biennial, the second year they flower and seed and there's a marigold that came up from seed from last year.

Farmer Fred   

And one lone bean plant. 

Debbie Flower  

Well, there's three, and that's like I said, I've been having trouble. And I think it's a drainage problem. So yeah, I have three and where the white tags are, I put in fresh seed that I bought. And it's purple beans, so I'd know which is which, which I probably need to give it a little more time, five more days or so to see if they're going to germinate. 

Farmer Fred   

All right, I noticed you have a Smart Pot here. 

Debbie Flower

I do. 

Farmer Fred

Tell us about what you're growing here in the Smart Pot. it looks to be a squash-like plant.

Debbie Flower   

These are cucumbers in the cage. So I want them to climb. there are three here, that's going to be too many. So I'm going to take at least one out, maybe two, but you see my little bamboo trees. That's to prevent the wildlife, such as my cat, who will just get in the bed and lay down. So this keeps her from doing that. This is basil, right here, these four little seedlings and that's a zucchini which has not germinated. I put a new seed in a couple of days ago.

Farmer Fred    

So these dead stalks are just your bamboo cuttings. 

Debbie Flower

Yes. 

Farmer Fred

You're brave.

Debbie Flower  

Why is that? 

Farmer Fred

Well, they might root.

Debbie Flower

No, they're dead. Okay, I took the dead ones. These are the one of the jobs of the dead culms, just cut them and stick them just to keep the wildlife out of the garden. And you see the drip spray irrigation. 

Farmer Fred    

Okay, it's spray irrigation, you have half inch tubing going around this circular Smart Pot. 

Debbie Flower

And across the middle. 

Farmer Fred

and across the middle and it's spraying. Probably the one in the middle is 360 and the others are 180s.

Debbie Flower   

Actually, some of them are 90s. Because the 180s tended to overshoot the side. You can regulate them. But again, the regulation is limited. Yeah, I have a couple of 180s and a couple of 90s to try to prevent overflow. And this is Grindelia, this yellow plant here. it's native. It’s called sticky Grindelia because it produces some kind of sticky stuff in the center that insects like. 

Farmer Fred   

Sticky Grindelia. Sounds like a pickpocket in Paris.

Debbie Flower  

Yes. And this is a Chilean mesquite. Planted to shade the house because it's the west side. the bedroom gets really hot. I’m training it to go tall and wide. I don't know if you can see it there is sort of  an angle in the trunk. Or the bottom below the curve is the actual stem. What the plant did, they grow very fast. If they get any water. I don't give them a lot of water, but they got water and it fell over. And cats loved it.  For the summer, they just hid under there. But then I cut off the part that fell over. So a branch would grow up. 

Farmer Fred   

So I’d say you're successful. 

Debbie Flower

Yeah, it's doing all right.  So 20 feet tall. And the beauty of the Chilean mequite is that it is does not have armature. It is unarmed. 

Farmer Fred  

for you botanical fans out there, usually if the botanical name has the word “inermis” in it, it means it doesn't have thorns, right? Like Gleditsia triancanthos ‘inermis’. Right?

Debbie Flower  

Right. Right.

Farmer Fred   

That's your Latin for the day. Thanks for coming to class.

Debbie Flower   

This Blue Oak was a volunteer. 

Farmer Fred

Blue Oak? Yeah, wow! 

Debbie Flower

Under the power lines. that's a problem with power line. Yeah. birds and squirrels and things sit up there and poop out seeds.

Farmer Fred   

a blue oak is such a majestic tree. 

Debbie Flower  

Yes, so far we've been lucky. I had one branch that went over the house too and I didn't like that for fire reasons. So I had it pruned back. We'll see. And then this Callistemon. not sure if it's ours or our neighbors. Just about done. It bloomed in April. It’s beautiful.

Farmer Fred   

You have not one, but two grapefruit trees!

Debbie Flower   

I need to do some cleanup. 

Farmer Fred    

Or start drinking gin.

Debbie Flower   

Something, there's not a lot you can do with grapefruit other than eat it. My parents were huge grapefruit eaters. every day, they'd have a half a grapefruit, and I just never got into it. And this is another navel orange. It's done for the season. This is a Frost peach. it was cut down. 

Farmer Fred

It came back.

Debbie Flower

it came back. and I'm not sure it's got fruit on it. But I'm not sure if it's the Frost peach. Yeah, I'm not sure if it's Frost that came back or the rootstock.

Farmer Fred    

Yeah, rootstock. It could be a Babcock, which would be one of the few edible rootstock peaches around.

Debbie Flower   

We can hope. I thought I’d wait, there's not a lot of fruit on it. And I haven't  pruned and shaped it or anything. I was going to take it out, I thought brambles might do well back here. And then all of these Tower of Jewels popped up because I drug one of the dead ones back here and laid it down. I edit. I have to pull some out along the path that gets in the passageway, very itchy.

Farmer Fred   

Debbie, here in your front yard, I know you guys like to party, but really. Leaving a wine bottle stuck upside down in your garden. 

Debbie Flower    

Oops, busted. No, that's a watering system. You can see at the base, there's some terracotta potting sticking out of the ground. That's an olla. It's a funnel shaped, fairly narrow, and it holds a bottle and this is a new plant to the garden in spring. I don't like to plant into the garden after March because  you need to water that plant very frequently. And if I forget or we travel, I don't get to that. So I got these little olla containers, and you fill a bottle with water. In this case, it's a wine bottle, turn it upside down, the water pours into the olla and it seeps out into the ground as needed. And that has helped establish some plants that I bought later in the season than I would have liked. 

Farmer Fred    

now the olla, which by the way, is spelled O L L A, is a terracotta pot that's buried in the ground. How big is that pot underground?

Debbie Flower   

This one is very small. I have bigger ollas down the driveway. They're not in use right now. They're just being ornamental, maybe holds two thirds of a cup of water.

Farmer Fred   

So you fill up the wine bottle maybe once a week or so. 

Debbie Flower    

This one has been less often than that. It's down to about, like down to about a third or half. I don't know. I have one on the Atriplex plant we looked at over there. And that one I have to fill. I looked at it yesterday thinking it was empty, but it wasn't. So that one's about every 10 days. This happens less often than that.

Farmer Fred    

And the moisture leaving that pot is only what seeps through the walls. There’s not holes in that? 

Debbie Flower

Correct, correct. 

Farmer Fred

Yes, that's remarkable. 

Debbie Flower  

Yeah, it's working well, I'm impressed. I'm happy because  nurseries carry really cool things in spring. But it's difficult in our climate to get them established because we get hot so quickly, and we get so hot and dry so quickly, that establishing a plant here is much better for us to do in the fall. It's much better in most climates to do later in the season. But this allows that to happen. And they're reusable and uses a bottle we would have anyway. So it works.

Farmer Fred    

And we should point out something you frequently mentioned on the show. And it makes perfect sense that if when you put in a new plant, you need to keep the root system for that new plant watered. Add water close to the plant, because it's going to take six weeks for those roots to grow into the surrounding soil.

Debbie Flower   

Right. Right. And this bed is irrigated by a grid of drip lines about every foot. So the field soil is getting wet, but the media - and you can see the top of it at the base of that lavender - the media that the plant came in, isn't necessarily right at a drip line. So this is also a problem of watering the media right around the roots of the plant. And it's going into bloom. It wasn't in bloom when I bought it. This was a lavender plant. You see it looks like four now. Or three. It was a lavender plant that grew up, fell over, layered themselves, rooted into the soil, other parts died back and so I ended up with the plant in the far distance, the plant near the calendulas, the plant near the sidewalk. And I went out and bought one more to just sort of make it a bigger patch. And then I have lots of plantings in containers.

Farmer Fred   

Oh, are these  the famous Debbie Flower container plants “that I haven't gotten around to planting yet” containers?.

Debbie Flower   

Those are outside the kitchen. These are the gonna live in pots for their life and almost all of them are gifts. I don't think I purchased a single one.

Farmer Fred   

In some climates they would be houseplants like the schefflera here.

Debbie Flower   

Right. and the Ficus, the rubber tree. I think I brought that from school. We propagated it in school and I had it in the bathroom and it grew tall and fell over and lost a lot of leaves because there wasn't a lot of light in there. So I said, Alright, let's put it on the porch. And here it is, coming back, looking good.

Farmer Fred   

One person might say that's quite the mishmash of plants you have. Other gardeners, they would go, “Wow, what a great selection of plants you've got here! And landscaping it so it all flows together!” 

Debbie Flower   

Well, that would be a big compliment. It's a continuous process of seeing things and editing them, thinning them out, taking things out, replacing them. It keeps me busy.

Farmer Fred   

And life is too short to put up with a problem plant.

Debbie Flower   

Yes, I think of you often in that regard, yes.

Farmer Fred    

But this is quite the view, sitting here on your front porch, especially this time of year with the Palo Verde in bloom, and just the understory of all the plants and the flowers of the sage peeking up over the the wall.

Debbie Flower    

And the Eriogonum grande rubescens (red buckwheat). That's flowering red right now with the lavenders in front of it. And then the yellow calendulas. I like that combination too. And the pink Pelargonium behind.

Farmer Fred  

See? You’re a landscaper! It’s been a great tour of Debbie Flower’s garden. It’s an extensive garden with a wide variety of plants. Thanks for the tour.

Debbie Flower   

You're welcome, Fred.

“BEYOND THE GARDEN BASICS” NEWSLETTER

Farmer Fred 

What's a podcast garden tour without pictures into recent episodes of the garden basics podcast, Debbie flower and myself took a stroll through a couple of gardens, my backyard garden, which we talked about in episode 341 and came out on Friday, June 7, and Debbie's fabulous garden, which you can hear about on the Friday, June 14 edition of the podcast. But again, what's a garden tour without pictures? Well, finally, you can get a look at the plants we've been talking about as well. In the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, it comes out every Friday, and this is in both the June 7 And June 14 editions. So via the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, you can listen to what we had to say, as well as scroll down while you're listening to see the plants and the gardening techniques that we were talking about. And I know some of you are saying, “why don't you just do a video?”  Because I have a face made for radio! That's why. Anyway, enjoy the pictures. Find a link to the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter in today's show notes or go to substack.com/GardenBasics and sign up for free. 

Farmer Fred

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred comes out every Tuesday and Friday and it's brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Garden Basics. It's available wherever podcasts are handed out. For more information about the podcast, visit our website, gardenbasics.net.  And that's where you can find out about the free Garden Basics newsletter, Beyond the Basics. And thank you so much for listening.