Integrating Psychedelics Into Spiritual Practice, Or Not | Raghu Markus #138

In this riveting conversation, we sit down with Raghu Markus to delve into the profound connection between psychedelics and spiritual traditions. Journey with us as Raghu shares his intimate experiences with the famous Indian guru, Neem Karoli Baba (a.k.a. Maharajji) and Ram Dass, exploring how these encounters shaped his understanding of universal love, non-duality, and the integration of psychedelics into spiritual practice.

Uncover the powerful stories of Ram Dass’s evolution from psychedelic seeker to spiritual teacher, and the remarkable teachings of Neem Karoli Baba. We’ll discuss the concept of "siddhis," the legacy of these spiritual luminaries, and how their insights bridge Eastern and Western spiritualities.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the synthesis of psychedelics and spirituality, offering rich insights, inspiration, and a deeper understanding of these transformative practices.

IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
🧘 Integration of Psychedelics and Spirituality
🧘 Ram Dass and Neem Karoli Baba
🧘 Personal Transformation Through Spiritual Practices
🧘 Siddhis and Spiritual Presence
🧘 The Legacy of Ram Dass
🧘 The Hanuman Chalisa
🧘 The Love Serve Remember Foundation and Be Here Now Network

ABOUT OUR GUEST: Raghu Markus

Raghu Markus spent 18 months in India with Neem Karoli Baba and Ram Dass. He has been involved in music and transformational media since the early 1970s, when he was program director of CKGM-FM in Montreal.

In 1974, he collaborated with Ram Dass on the box set Love Serve Remember. In 1990, he launched Triloka Records, which established itself as a critical leader in the development of world music. For 17 years, Triloka was home to such artists as Krishna Das, Hugh Masekela, Walela, Jai Uttal and transformational media projects that featured Ram Dass, Deepak Chopra, and Les Nubians.

Raghu lives in Ojai, California, and is the Executive Director of the Love Serve Remember Foundation. In 2016, he co-founded the Be Here Now Network, where he hosts the Ram Dass Here & Now podcast, as well as his own Mindrolling podcast. He is the producer of Becoming Nobody, a Ram Dass documentary feature film that was released in 2019.

Chapters

• 0:00 Exploring the Spiritual Path With Psychedelics
• 13:22 Meeting Spiritual Teachers
• 27:01 Exploring Vedic Wisdom and Ayurveda
• 31:21 Psychedelics and Spiritual Integration
• 46:21 Psychedelics and Spiritual Integration Summit
• 52:44 Daily Spiritual Practices and Chants

Transcript

Dylan: 0:00

This fortnight on the Vital Veda podcast.

Raghu Markus: 0:03

Ram Dass, you know, went the second time. This is 1970 and some of us went at the same time and were able to meet Neem Karoli Baba. I mean the way that he completely knew our entire lives, dylan, you can't imagine. You know our minds were broken by this. How should I meditate on Ram Dass? And he said to me right away meditate like Christ. When he was nailed to the cross, he felt no pain, just love. He was lost in love with everyone. We had Christ, darshan. Basically, we were in the presence of what that is in that moment. This is the extraordinary part of a being like this, who is not living in duality, right, who's completely at one with the thing, whatever it is. The whole universe was open to him. He said do you have more of that yogi medicine? And then he gave it to him and he literally did one by one in his mouth and the same thing nothing happened. It's so funny.

Dylan: 1:16

Welcome to the Vital Veda Show. I am your host, Dylan Smith. I'm an Ayurvedic practitioner and holistic health educator who sees patients from all walks of life, and a lot of the things that come up sometimes with certain individuals are their relationship with psychedelics, their curiosity in exploring it, their positive effects, their ill effects, side effects, emotional, mental effects that can be positive or negative. And today I'm speaking with Raghu Marcus, who's a longtime spiritual practitioner and media producer, who spent 18 months in India with Neem Karoli Babo, an extraordinary man who, which we talk about. He did that in the early 1970s and he spent plenty of time with Ram Dass, the great spiritual science teacher. He was basically Ram Dass' sidekick, and if you don't know who Ram Dass is or you may have heard his name but don't fully know basically, in very quick summary, he was a Harvard professor, a very well-regarded one.

Raghu Markus: 2:17

He kind of had it all.

Dylan: 2:18

He had the good looks, he had the high position, everyone respected him and he was in psychology and he got into psychedelics and started using them in the 60s and this was when it was still legal LSD and acid was legal in US. So he created this huge movement almost regarding psychedelics and using them for expanding consciousness and then eventually kind of got over it and wanted something more sustainable and went to India and met this amazing Siddha, this amazing person called Neem Karoli Baba, who we speak about beautifully in this podcast. Ragu Markas speaks a lot because he also spent time with him and since then Ragu has been deeply involved in music and transformational media. He helps bridge eastern spiritual teachings with western audience. He's involved in music and transformational media. He helps bridge Eastern spiritual teachings with Western audience. He's the host of the Mind Rolling podcast, which has over 500 episodes. He serves as executive director of the Love Serve Remember Foundation, dedicated to preserving and sharing the teachings of Ram Dass and Neem Karoli Baba, as well as the Be he Now Network, which has a whole lot of teachers on these topics of spirituality.

Dylan: 3:25

So we go into this and I hope you enjoy it If you're someone who is kind of maybe curious about psychedelics for spiritual reasons or not, or you don't like psychedelics, or you love it or really you're into it. This is going to be really interesting for you, and not only about psychedelics. We speak a lot about Neem Krolli Baba in the spiritual journey and it's very fascinating to hear um. You know rugga's view on things, so I hope you enjoyed this podcast. If you appreciate what we do, please, please, subscribe. It makes a huge difference in our ability to reach other guests and high quality guests. If you do like this podcast and you're a part of it in whatever way, such as listening, subscribe and leave a review on itunes.

Raghu Markus: 4:07

It would really really mean a lot to me and my team beautiful valley that krishna morty landed here and mayor baba was here, and many, many Thich Nhat Hanh, on and on.

Dylan: 4:23

It's a beautiful little vibration here yeah, what is the vibration that you experience that has drawn these people from the east to really, I guess, initiate a lot of this yoga, vedantic teachings in us, right, yep?

Raghu Markus: 4:40

um, what is it? It's ineffable a little bit, you know you can't really speak to it but speak the words. But there's certainly a kind of spaciousness is my best description of it the kind of spaciousness that when you enter into that presence you're not so caught up in your, you know your story, you tell yourself and your mind stuff and all that. So it opens up vistas, Seems to.

Dylan: 5:14

Yeah, so, raghu, I want to talk about something particularly in this podcast episode that I feel is very relevant today podcast episode that I feel is very relevant today and that is people who are engaging on different paths for spiritual and personal development evolution.

Dylan: 5:32

There's a few, there's a bunch of different paths, but I want to speak to you particularly about kind of different paths of psychedelics is very big now of approaching that, but then, also we have the yoga vedantic path, which and now it's kind of mingling in between the few and some people are saying no and some people saying yeah, and there's so many different things. But I I feel that you are, you're quite an authority to speak on this. You know, you've got it, you've had a nice scope give it a little side wobble, head wobble.

Dylan: 6:04

So I want to also acknowledge that people listening to this may not know much about yourself. They may not know about ramdas, who you spend a lot of time with. They may not know about the traditions that you and ramdas have been influenced by and have you know being part of, and they're from a later generation like you, including myself, and also not from the us, because you were around in the 60s 70s where this was really coming up. I kind of feel like we're in a similar time of like the spread of psychedelics, of people taking it for getting to know themselves more and would you feel that, would you agree on that, and that's really

Raghu Markus: 6:42

interesting yeah I really would. Yeah, it's definitely somewhat of a revolution and in a return to, as you said, people wanting to just get to know themselves a little bit better, and actually that's what. Uh, we're entering into this whole area at love serve, remember, which is the umbrella for Ram Dassorg and the Be here Now Network, beherenownetworkcom, with all the podcasts, and, yeah, it's going to be something that gives his perspective on really the integration of science, spirituality and psychedelic insight. And then what do you do? First, what do you do when you get those ineffable experiences? What do you do with that insight? How does it affect your day-to-day life? How do you incorporate it into a much broader view? I mean, our guru, neem Karoli Baba, said to us, after Ram Dass had given him a lot of acid I mean huge doses how much you know what? I just found that out. How about that? I was at MAPS last summer. You know MAPS, the organization that tried to get MDMA approved for clinical use.

Dylan: 8:07

Okay, you read about all that stuff.

Raghu Markus: 8:08

No, no, oh, you got to know about that. That like it just got refused. It's a huge thing here where we really thought, okay, now people will be able to get treatment, particularly for PTSD, but also death and dying and so on. But we're not. Ram Dass didn't. He was completely into it and he actually met with a bunch of people a couple of years before he died that were forwarding this cause of being able to use this in therapeutic environment. He was about set and setting with Leary all the way back. Then, right, what do you do? How do you set something up? How do you treat it with respect rather than just popping something? And then what do you do? What's the outcome Once you have that ineffable experience? So I was going to say, yeah, okay, back to at MAPS.

Raghu Markus: 9:03

At MAPS was a man named Leonard Picard, the biggest maker of LSD in the known world. He got bussy, spent a lot of time. He just got out, I think not more than a couple of years ago. A few years ago and in his talk he gave he knew exactly how many micro doses this acid that Ram Dass got, because he was connected to the same people and brought to India. Back then it was late 60s, early 70s, right, and like 600 micrograms per dose and he gave them. I mean three, three or four. He just put them down.

Dylan: 9:48

Nothing happened and can you explain that story more for people who don't know it?

Raghu Markus: 9:54

well, ramdas was sitting with nimka roli baba we used to call him maharaji as a and he said to Ram Dass, do you have some of that medicine? And he thought like I did, because he said the same thing to me much later on and that's a whole other story about my father. That's pretty amazing. But Ram Dass finally figured out he's talking about. He called it the yogi medicine and then he said give me. And Ram Dass took it, gave it to him. And he said and nothing happened, meaning there was no visible effects whatsoever Nothing changed. He said this is good for people, whatsoever. Nothing changed. He said this is good for people in the beginning as something that opens up a door. He didn't speak like that, he didn't speak in teaching terms particularly, but he said you get to sit with Christ for a couple of hours, but then you got to leave, come down. You got to leave Much better, ultimately, to love everyone, serve everyone and remember God.

Raghu Markus: 11:10

So the funny part of the story is when he went back to America and then came, you know, went the second time and this is 1970, and some of us went at the same time and were able to meet Neem Karoli Baba. So he, when he did that, he, he, while he was away he's. He wondered if his mind was playing tricks, because Maharaji quickly put the pills in his mouth. He said what if I looked away? Maybe he was just throwing it over his shoulder? You know, he had all this paranoid bullshit going on right, like we all do. So he brought, he had some again with him and maharaji, who the whole universe was open to him, whatever he needed to help, anybody was there. He said do you have more of that yogi medicine? Did I take it? That time, ram das, you know he addressed the paranoia right and then he gave it to him and he literally did uh, well, if you can't see me, I'm putting a pill on tongue, one by one in his mouth. And and the same thing, nothing happened.

Raghu Markus: 12:19

So funny so that was Ram Dass's. It sort of was the he went to India because he kept coming down. You know how many hundreds of acid trips, right, I mean I don't know how many a lot. And he went to India because he kept coming down and he wanted a map of consciousness. Somebody over there must know some saint or something. And he went over there and sure enough, he did meet a being, didn't have a map the map consisted of.

Raghu Markus: 12:56

Really I would identify it now as a being that lived in a non-dual state, in a physical body, with a personality. You know, in india they say this is very rare, it's called a siddha in india, not a saint. They don't teach, they don't have books. Then you know he didn't have disciples, devotees, and he was a family guru for sure. So Ram Dass kind of went full circle by going to India in his psychedelic journey and later on he would occasionally do psychedelics, just as he called it, just to do a checkup, you know, once in a while and as he got older and then especially through the uh, the stroke, he was not doing it much at all at that time, but anyhow, this journey just became complete when he went to india and met neem karoli baba it seems ramdas was looking for something more stable and exploring those consciousness states.

Dylan: 14:00

And I don't know if you'd agree like and I mean neem karoli baba, you just I don't know if you'd agree like and I mean a neem crawley baba, you just I don't know much about him, but you just see him, photos of him, and he's just like complete kaffir, like he's really that, that stable, lying on his side all the time, like it's just that, yeah, complete grounded, and you can, and just the how you explain the quantity of acid that he takes, like that's again like reflective of his real stida is the sanskrit word.

Raghu Markus: 14:26

It's like that, that ground and stability of yep, just one by one, pop and pop yeah, well, when you're, you know there's no boundary with anything in a I'm I'm supposing right in this kind of a state. I mean the way that he completely knew our entire lives, right, dylan? You can't imagine. You know, our minds were broken by this. You know, that's what.

Dylan: 14:51

That was the most powerful thing without you speaking to him before nothing absolutely nothing a true sitter, true or yeah?

Raghu Markus: 14:59

right, or he would, you know, say something to a person that hadn't happened, as if it had happened. So did you see your mother, or the letter, your aunt, whatever some common stuff? And you go, no, that never happened. And then next day it happened. You know that kind of thing. So that was all designed in to just completely shatter the mind so we no longer could think anything was real at all. You know, and we're making up and projecting moment to moment to moment. You know it's what? Do you know who? Duncan Trussell is? No Famous podcaster in America. You know Joe Rogan. Yeah, you know Joe Rogan. Yeah, okay, joe Rogan sort of mentored him in that area and he's got a very good audience. And we did a thing called the Movie of Me to the Movie of we, an audio book from chats that we did.

Raghu Markus: 16:00

The first thing that anybody got to know about is how we have developed this environment that we are living in, that we completely believe is who we are. And the start is to understand, oh, through mindfulness practice, oh, okay, oh, okay. That's my motivations are like self-interested 23 and a quarter, at the least, hours a day. That that's what we're involved with. Think of it, just think, you know, just think of yourself. Each one of us is involved that way, and it takes mindfulness to at least understand that. So that's what this book is. How do we get and transform that into you know, as his holiness of dalai lama said, without an altruistic platform that you see, everything, you know, life is just cannot be fulfilling and it's it's just, uh, your purpose, your dharma never gets, you never get a chance to merge with it if you have strictly that narrow, separate view of yourself with life.

Dylan: 17:16

So you mentioned that Neem Karoli Baba was your guru as well as Ram Dass. Then how would you describe your relationship to Ram Dass? Because you've devoted a lot of your life, at least at the moment, to sharing the teachings and legacy of Ram Dass, it seems almost like he's kind of like a guru to you. That's my perspective, from my limited perspective.

Raghu Markus: 17:35

Yeah, no, no. And Ram Dass never called himself a guru ever. Ram Dass wasn't finished, but to you to you.

Raghu Markus: 17:48

They say gurus don't call themselves gurus, right, it's like what? No, but no, he, he absolutely was a teacher. Some people to in these days, especially since he left, may take him on in that role, but for the most part, most people find ramdas as a teacher and the doors open up to that which is Neem Karoli Baba, whatever that is. And Ram Dass was a teacher to me in the beginning, for sure. Then we became friends and we worked on stuff. We were guru brothers and worked on stuff together and throughout his whole life I still look to him, you know, I would talk to him about stuff and what do you think I'm going through this, that the other that would happen, and so that role was still there. But it was a combination of I was his producer, he was a teacher, he was a friend, we were guru brothers, you know. So it was a mix-up, a mash-up.

Dylan: 18:41

Right, tell us about you like meeting maharajji, and you mentioned some things, but, yeah, I would love to hear more because I find the cities, the divine, supernatural, human capabilities can itself be like an inspiring initiation for people to explore yeah, because you know you always run into the issue of okay, where do I go to find this thing?

Raghu Markus: 19:08

you had it, I want it, you know, and it's just um. There are certainly great teachers, especially available today because of the internet and so on. Whether there are a lot of these kinds, you know. Neem Karoli Baba's around, or Shirdi Sai Baba was the other one. 16th Karmapa was another one. You know there's a number of them that fit into that category. They, as Maharaji said, do not need to have a body, so they are available. So the teachings are so much more available than what we had back then. So that drove us to India, partially right.

Raghu Markus: 19:54

And the reality is what we have found out through all these years. Is that, well, the best, let me tell you this, the best story I was going to say. All these years, we have found out that the deepest part of ourselves is completely connected with what these beings represent, whatever you want to call it spirit, god, nirvana. You know there's so many different words, but the reality is that place is inside us, it's not outside us. But the reality is that place is inside us, it's not outside us, and that's another thing, once one realizes that one nurtures having that presence more in their lives, and that's through practice. So, look, we have these retreats where we gather up. I don't know if you know who Krishna Das is. He's a big chant guy, yeah, and he comes to Australia, yeah yeah, I think he went to new zealand too.

Raghu Markus: 20:52

So, and we get some buddhist teachers. I mean it's really a wonderful combination of what we represent lineage, wise, legacy. Wise is bhakti, devotional yoga and bud and Buddhist discriminating wisdom. That's really what Maharaji gave us and so that's always available. You know, it really is. I mean it's, but it's facile to say that, and what happens is people experience it. When we get together, it's really the same.

Raghu Markus: 21:26

And Maharaji, he gets around and people are having darshan, meaning being in the presence in dreams a daytime, something when Krishnas is singing the Hanuman Chalisa, which is, you know, our main prayer, so to speak. But look, when I first met him in the Himalayas, in the foothills of the Himalayas, in a place called Khenchi Khenchi Ashram, there was just a few of us. If you can imagine these kind of beings, you know they have gazillions of followers and so on. There were six peoples. We were sitting around him and he came out and as soon as I saw him I went. I remember my thoughts, basically, I don't know what order, but one of them was was surely, oh, I know you, he was not new, I've known you forever and I'll know you forever. That was the first thought. You know it was infinite. And then the next was oh, oh, shit, that's what ramdas was all about, exactly that. And then just, uh, just relaxing into, like you get into a hot tub and you just completely let go, just beyond trust, beyond faith, no, nothing, you're just here, just talk about be here now.

Raghu Markus: 22:47

So I, yeah, I never felt as home in you know, as as as that moment, I mean never maybe as a baby with a mother, you know and I said, and with Ram Dass, I, I said that and I meant that, oh, that's what Ram Dass was all about, because I had let go when I first met him and he just created a space where there was no him. It was like what do you need? And I had this basic, incredible trust in that him. It wasn't even a him. In the moment that I, I was, I was uh able to completely relax my mind and, uh, it led to the intuition of, hey, I'm going to India. You know, I knew I had to go.

Raghu Markus: 23:36

So, yeah, so the moment I met Neem Karoli Baba was was going home, I was all well on my way, let's put it, when I met ram das and it's funny, he, he said to me, he, he would jive us all the time. You know you jive us or say something serious like there is, it's all one, there's only one god, and or he'd be. He'd say to me like is Ram Dass, your guru?

Dylan: 24:08

And.

Raghu Markus: 24:08

I knew well that I'd come there specifically to meet him and anyhow, it was lovely. So, to describe what it was like spending the time, the actual moments with this being time, the actual moments with this being, I mean, it was like, uh, very much like a combination of acid and MDMA, that's how I put it Just completely warm and full of love, yet, um, like you're on a different plane. You're not. You know there's no time and space, and, and just like that happens with psychedelics. You know there's no time and space, and just like that happens with psychedelics. You know you're really in the present moment and we used to freak out too. You know, just feeling like the kind of thoughts you have in front of someone like this.

Raghu Markus: 24:57

You're like holy shit, I'm the worst piece of shit that ever lived. You know I might as well go die. So you know that was happening too and stuff had to die. We were younger than you 23, 4, 5 years old Most of us. In that Some of us, you know, like Ram Dass, was 15 years older than us.

Dylan: 25:19

I appreciate it, raghu, because I just wanted to, you know, honor Neem Kralibhavi. He really is. For those who respect you know, neem crowley bubby, he really is if for those who, uh, respect you know bhakti traditions or just yog vedantic traditions in general, it's, it's nice to just know about the different gurus that were there and because they still have that, that legacy, and it flows, and it flows through people who are still alive today, like yourself, like krishna does, and you know there's people like me who is a few generations after a couple more, whatever, and it's like I don't know much about him.

Dylan: 25:53

I just see photos of him and, for those who don't know, to me he looks like an absolutely beautiful, gorgeous walrus, like the animal just lounging, and I would kind of assume that his teachings are more, as you were saying, just just being in the presence, just having that energy flow. I mean, was he doing lecturing? Was he doing a lot of that stuff, or?

Raghu Markus: 26:17

Not ever. He said jiving people, yeah, wow. No, he never even like the way he spoke, it was in bursts of uh, I can't describe it. I mean it's uh in hindi and it would all be translated. So he'd say in hindi, he'd point his finger and go subak, which means all one, and you go hanuman, christ, buddha, muhammad, whatever sub, there's only one. The message we got.

Raghu Markus: 26:46

There's only one thing going on, and my sort of story that Krishna tells all the time in his kirtans is I asked Maharaji how to meditate. I think when I look back, I really was a hindu guru. So get a mantra, you can go home. You know that kind of thing. Uh, again, we were young and I said but it came out, how how should I meditate? And he said to me right away meditate like christ. When he was nailed to the cross, he felt no pain, just love. He was lost in love with everyone.

Raghu Markus: 27:25

That that went way over my head. First of all, I was Jewish. I had no idea who Christ was at all. None, and then, anyhow, ram Dass came that night he wasn't there during that day and I told him the story. I said look, you have a much more day. And I told him the story. I said look you gotta you have a much more convivial relationship with him. Can you ask him how did christ meditate?

Raghu Markus: 27:53

So it was me, krishnas, ramdas and a couple other people sitting around him, and ramdas asked that question and maharaji stopped and he just sat up, closed his eyes and said nothing and we were just looking. You know, when you're a kid and you're looking at your parents, it suddenly changed the atmosphere of what's happening and really, you know, I don't know, a minute went by. He opened his eyes and he was crying, tears were coming from his eyes. This is the extraordinary part of a being like this, who is not living in duality, right, who's completely at one with the thing whatever it is, but acting through the body, he's still got a body. These two things can coexist at the same time. That's, to me, the biggest miracle.

Raghu Markus: 28:45

And so he said over and over he never died, he never died, he never died. He was lost in love with every sentient being. He never died, he never. I mean, he kept going on like that and we were like whole, you know, we had christ, arshon, basically, yeah, we were in the presence of what that is in that moment and, um, yeah, that was the end for me of any sectarianism or caring about any tradition. That's better than none of that mattered whatsoever, and so that gift that he gave us is extraordinary. Now we share that. I've shared it through podcasts, or Krishna has shared it through kirtans or at our retreats and so on, and that exists for many people in that moment.

Dylan: 29:50

Talking about conscious gatherings, I want to share with you a profound, month-long Vedic festival which is happening in October 2024 in a country town in New South Wales, australia, and that festival is called Hir Naura and that includes talks by me on Ayurveda, on the three doshas workshops, talks by me on Ayurveda, on the three doshas workshops, consultations on Ayurveda, but also introductions to Sanskrit, intermediate lessons in Sanskrit, lessons in Vedic mythology, a whole social and music program, including John Butler playing his new spiritual projects on profound guitarists. So check that out, hear dash in I n dot world and join a collective, a first of its kind, a month-long festival of vedic wisdom this october. And if you're in australia and you want to see me in person for consultations, I will be consulting in sydney, bondi on october 1. And I will be consulting in the Northern Rivers, byron Shire, new South Wales, up until late September. And then that's it for the year.

Dylan: 30:53

I will be consulting in Buenos Aires, argentina, in January 2024, and also Morocco in December 2024. So Buenos Aires, january 2025. And I'll also be consoling in Morocco, december 2024. And if you're in South America and want to reach out to collaborate on any events, ayurveda workshops, hit us up media at vitalvedacomau.

Raghu Markus: 31:21

Back to the show to the show, that vibration, you know, that complete. What was Christ? And he said? Christ and Hanuman, by the way, are the same. They're nothing but total devotion to God and total humble, just caring only about how they can help people. This was the essence of it and it happens in these retreats. It happens in more than these retreats. It happens in many situations where people get together and they let go and become part of one heart.

Raghu Markus: 32:06

But I only know these is what I've been doing with Ram Dass when he ended up in Maui after he almost died in 2004. And we went and we kind of put it together, a few of his friends and made sure he was okay. I mean, he had a stroke, maybe seven years earlier, something like that, and he stayed there the rest of his life. So it was, like you know, 15, 16 years, and that happened in a way that fulfilled the entire arc of his life. Remember, I said earlier, fulfilling the psychedelic arc by going to India.

Raghu Markus: 32:50

This filled the arc of really taking the teachings, tell the truth, love everyone, which, when he was with him, he said well, maharaji told him to do that. He said I can't do that. He said tell the truth, love everyone and tell the truth, and he finally got to that place by the end of his life. So, you know, that's the the real mark of it. Uh, in terms of actuating, what we were given by maharaji, these, these little aphorisms, you know, I mean women, how about this? I'm just remembering treat all women like your mother or your sister. Okay, a pure woman is worth a hundred yogis, you know. So he was really giving us, you know, because our culture is just horrible patriarchal culture, and so he allowed us a way to open up a little bit that way.

Dylan: 33:48

So that's how he taught, without teaching, and so you're playing a big role in sharing these teachings essentially, as well as with this focus on Ram Dassas right now, in today's world. How does psychedelics play a role in this? Is it kind of is there's a, based on what maharajji said? Is you know, this is a good initial way to get people a glimpse, and it seems that krishna does kind of also ended up evolving to that relationship with psychedelics in utilizing it in a spiritual journey.

Dylan: 34:26

I would love you to yeah, comment and also what you're seeing with today, because it's confusing for people like people, uh, for example, they'll have their meditation practice, they'll have their lineage which they're focusing on various techniques, and then they kind of get lured to these psychedelic journeys which are happening so commonly now on every weekend retreat and like but then they have that. What rhyme does, or what you said around us says is like the come down kind of thing and it's not sustaining, is it? Then they keep going back and it kind of does turn into a bit of a experience.

Raghu Markus: 34:58

Mostly it turns into, you know, continuation of one experience after the other and it's very, you get very hooked on experience, we're hooked on. We can do that with meditation too. Have a meditation experience and get hooked on that. You know we get attached very easily. Is that a bad thing? It's not bad or good, but ultimately it's not. You know, there's unhappiness, there's suffering because you're attached. Right, it's not complete. What are we looking for? I mean, just take what you're saying.

Raghu Markus: 35:34

People continue to have, ayahuasca, for instance, experiences Every week they're going, or every month or whatever it is, and they're saying well, I'm finding out something new every time. But unfortunately for most people in my experience, there's an attachment to that experience. And then people you know are hooked, they're grasping for that experience and that is something you know and nothing's going to happen. You're going to keep doing it until it's like Ram Dass, he had enough. Like Ram Dass, he had enough. You know it was not. You know he saw through his mind. Stuff of this is going to give me another glimpse of something inside myself. He saw through that and then that's why he went to India. So that kind of you know, grasping is clinging, is our biggest difficulty right in everything, and so one needs to address that and but again, I can't tell you how many people get in touch with us. You know, like young, you know the age, we are early 20s or something, and I just, I had a great psilocybin trip and then I just I had a great psilocybin trip and then, you know, suddenly I saw Beher. Now, wow, I'm listening to Ram, you know so, ram Dass. So you know, as you said earlier, it seems like this is like a return to what I was used to back then. But honestly, over the decades, one way or another back then, but honestly, over the decades, one way or another.

Raghu Markus: 37:17

Well, I have to say psychedelics, the psychedelic revolution of the last you know what five, 10 years is real and it is doing something. And there are still people that are opening up. You know whether they I mean we, you asked about us now I don't think any of us are doing a lot of psychedelics from back then. Actually, you know this gentleman, rick Doblin, who I did a podcast with. He runs MAPS, which is the multidisciplinary and blah, blah I can never remember the acronym it's for, but basically they're heading up all the research to get it, you know, through the FDA in the States so that therapists can use it.

Raghu Markus: 37:59

And you know they pushed back. I'm not quite sure what's going to happen, but he said hey, you know, you guys and gals, you know, in the 70s were, you know, pretty much turned the. Instead of turning inward using psychedelics, you were using meditation. Now you're getting to a stage that you know you're towards the end of your life. I think it'd be great if you all considered just a little touch-up, a MDMA trip. That would just, you know, give you back the idea of the integration of all things, the interconnectivity which is what MDMA does. And so I thought it was a good message.

Raghu Markus: 38:44

But other than that, I think we're just doing our best to respond to what's going on, and, through the foundation, we're going to set up a summit next year that's going to reflect on how these anthonyogens, these psychedelics, can be used to go inside and further, you know, knowledge of who we really are and how we are interconnected. And then, what do you, do you do when you have those ineffable experiences? How do you integrate that into a day-to-day? How do you perhaps not perhaps, integrate spiritual practices? There's so many of them, from writing a diary to meditation, to mantras, to mindfulness and so on. Visualization, dream, yoga, I mean. There's so many different ways in which one can apply the experience through the psychedelics into the daily life, and that's what we want to represent yeah, great.

Dylan: 39:47

How did you feel when that man from maps offered you a touch-up? Like what was your feeling in your body.

Raghu Markus: 39:54

It's a good idea and I got some. Yeah, it was a good touch-up. Uh, yeah, it ended up. Uh, actually I think it was more, it was psilocybin. I don't know what happened with the mdma.

Dylan: 40:06

Okay, I'll have to go ask rick to give me an another advisal and uh, with, in your time with neem crowley babaoli Baba, when that crew of yours moved from the psychedelics to Neem Karoli Baba, did you have that cleanliness? Did you have to keep going back? And how was the integration process for you of getting that deep, unified field of non-duality experiences with the Siddha? And then, yeah, how was that? Yeah, right, where's the?

Raghu Markus: 40:36

Siddha. And then, yeah, how was that? Yeah, right, where's the Siddha? Oh god, um, no, no, we went through a lot of suffering, you know, to be in in that state without. I mean, there were still people doing Asa. There's great stories of people doing some. People said to him, hey, can we do this? And he'd say, yeah, go up in the forest as long as cold and you're you know he gave a whole prescription for it, like the hermits used to in ages gone by. But I don't remember ever thinking one time about it whatsoever. I mean, we were smoking charas, you know, hash, you know, back then, and some of us, many of us actually, but that was this. You know that had nothing to do with psychedelics. Uh, no, I I never. It dawned on me once to oh, maybe I should check back with another trip or something. I know I did it after that, but very infrequently.

Dylan: 41:37

Right, and one big aspect of Neem Karoli Baba was bhakti devotion. How did that come through? Because you've spoken about the real oneness and that knowing, but show us the devotion aspect.

Raghu Markus: 41:51

It had nothing to do with what we were thinking about. We didn't contextualize, we knew of course it was part of that tradition. But he I mean the only time he talked about other beings like this I mean I'm being a little bit dramatic but mostly it was Tibetans. People ask him what about Kalu Rinpoche, whatever you know? And he never met him or anything like that. Okay, the best example I can give you that's not so verbal.

Raghu Markus: 42:28

I went to see, before I met Neem Karoli Baba, I was at a being named Swami Muktananda. He was famous back in the day. Famous guru Came to the States and everything. Ram Dass was close to him and helped him get out there. And I actually met Ram Dass at his ashram. But Ram Dass came a day later or something. And when I went to see Swami Muktananda, all those tons of people you know he's giving darshan and they were all bowing and touching his feet I had just gotten to India. I was like huh, what is that all about Touching people's feet? Anyhow, I went that night, I went back. I told Ram Dass, you know, I don't understand what is this all about? He said well, it's like you know, honoring God within this being, and if you have a problem with it, it's good stuff to work on. Later he called it grist for the mill and he said I was on my way that next day because Ram Dass had given me a letter to introduce me to people who told me where to go to see Maharaji, literally.

Raghu Markus: 43:43

So I went back that day and it was the same thing. I just couldn't get with it. I mean, my mind was I might have touched the floor. I don't know what I did, but I was completely turned off. Then I get up. So, anyhow, I finally get up to the mountains, and I was just telling the story earlier. What are the first thoughts I had? When I met him and he came out? I was sitting Sitting, yeah, I was sitting on the floor. Anyhow he came out. Not a thought, nothing.

Raghu Markus: 44:16

Boom, he came out not a thought, nothing, boom, just down my head at those feet, touching the feet. It wasn't I mean I couldn't control myself, I mean I couldn't even. I mean that thought was you know, it just never entered anywhere near me. So I knew then this was beyond how I thought of myself comes from the heart like that yep, yeah, you can't. No, it's you. You meet something like that. You can't do anything, your whole in, you know everything. It's such uh truth you can't circumvent it in any way. Some people do. They have strong minds and they're not going to let go and they usually say hi and boom, they're gone. You know, maybe it's for another lifetime to be able to have met someone like that I was kind of like timothy leary.

Dylan: 45:08

Right, he's very, yeah, mind man. Yeah, it's funny seeing the juxtaposition of him and ramdas when, when they're speaking together and in conversations. Yeah, yeah, it's lovely, you, the juxtaposition of him and ramdas when, when they're speaking together and in conversations? Yeah, yeah, it's lovely, you know there's a.

Raghu Markus: 45:20

There's a great movie dying to know which is leary dying? You saw it. Yeah, we're actually just putting out a book, a coffee table book with all with the dialogue and the pictures, and additional this out of the other. That's beautiful, I mean to read it is different than to see the film and you spend more time with it because the film goes boom right by and to see how they transcended just what you said around Leary's mind and Ram Dass' heart and it just became one whole. It was beautiful.

Dylan: 45:55

Yeah, you see that in that movie when they're in conversation, like later in their lives. It was really beautiful and Ram Dassi is playing a very like being that heart. He's holding this, like he's holding that harmony, in a way Like it's him doing it.

Dylan: 46:12

And it's beautiful. He's the soft one, allowing leary's kind of fiery mind to, to, to be circulating with that. But, um, yeah, so back to what you're doing, because I want to like again bring this to practically for our listeners who are, as I said, confused or have a uncertain relationships of integrating psychedelics into their spiritual paths. I want to ask, because you're it seems like that's kind of one of your main focuses with Love, serve, remember Foundation is that you're with this summit that's coming up, so are you doing that as? Okay, psychedelics is like one of the best ways, so I'm going to put my energy and attention towards sharing how to integrate it, or is it? Psychedelics is so common right now I kind of need to step in and play a role in people to integrate it. Or is it? Psychedelics is so common right now I kind of need to step in and play a role in people to do it right well, first of all, it's not just me.

Raghu Markus: 47:01

We have a whole in terms of the directions that we take with, uh, what we're doing. There's a a number of people some of them I've been that are part of the family of us from back in the day in India. So, yeah, this is not a solo decision. Number one and number two no, this is not. I mean, we have a lot of stuff going on courses and books and live retreats and films and so on. So this, yes, I do feel it's important.

Raghu Markus: 47:32

I mean, ram Dass had an important voice in the representation of how to use psychedelics to go inside and know yourself and to hopefully, in the end, integrate that with spiritual practices and ways in which you can set up a perspective for yourself. Set up a perspective for yourself and you really mindfulness really can kick in, especially if you've had that ineffable experience of complete interconnection with everyone and everything, and so that's what we feel would be really important to represent. So we're going to workshop it out at this summit and you know, have a lot of different voices in it and, yeah, I, I think it's, it's going to be a great thing the end of march next year right, I need to tell you about this retreat which we are running in association with my teachers.

Dylan: 48:31

It is seriously such a unique, profound opportunity and it's the second year and last year blew me away. So this is a retreat happening on april 2nd to 8th. It's a week-long retreat in 2025 and it's on marma, which are the vital points of the body, and pulse diagnosis and self-pulse technique. So marma and pulse two very subtle techniques and treatments in Ayurveda which are so subtle that that is why they're so powerful. They're operating on the subtle levels of physiology. I'm not going to go much into it, but I will say this is especially for health practitioners and Ayurveda students and Ayurveda practitioners who want to deepen their repertoire of healing capacity and healing capabilities. Capabilities, because it's really what we develop.

Dylan: 49:18

We talk about in this podcast episode about siddhis, and this is developing the siddhis of touch. What is your ability to have a profound healing effect by touching someone? This is marma. This is the subtle art of activating the prana, the vital points in the body, and also we learn pulse diagnosis. So if you want to learn more about the Marma retreat we are running, you can go to vitalvaitacomau forward slash marma-retreat and that is with the renowned Ayurvedic doctors Vaidya Harsha Raju and Vaidya Parvani Raju in April 2024. All right back to the show.

Raghu Markus: 50:01

Right and how do?

Dylan: 50:02

people find out about that.

Raghu Markus: 50:03

Yeah, so the best thing to do in any of these cases, in other words, in any of the things I'm speaking to, is just go to ramdasorg and put your email address in. We have a weekly newsletter. You'll get notices about all of this book. For instance, dying to Know, the retreat in Maui at the end of this year, a course which is very applicable maybe for us in America, because we have an election coming up and we're doing a course. You know how to basically transform anxiety and uncertainty that we are feeling, particularly there with what's happening, and try and help people have a perspective that allows them and us to be able to be in the moment with this, you know. So, yeah, ramdasorg. Oh, if you want the movie of me to the movie of we this is my own little self-interested thing um, with duncan trussell and myself, go to movieofmecom and it's got samples and all that there.

Dylan: 51:12

Yeah, yeah, um. So yeah, those are the things, a ton of things. You've got a ton of resources like the mind rolling podcast over 500 episodes and, yeah, within the be he now net. Tell us just a bit about the be he now network. Um I more just because you've. I believe dr roberts verbota is part of that in some way, is that right?

Raghu Markus: 51:33

yeah, yeah, yeah, he has a podcast.

Dylan: 51:35

Yeah, he's great so that's just a network, that kind of like a I don't know like a um record label would do with music, is doing kind of with teachings. Is that right?

Raghu Markus: 51:45

yeah, you might say that, especially since I had a record label. So that's kind of, I guess, part of what I was thinking. But, uh, basically a a number of extraordinary teachers, including ones that aren't with us, of course Ram Dass, but Krishnamurti, alan Watts, you know, and then the likes of Jack Kornfield and Sharon Salzberg and Krishna Dass and so on, and what I do with Mind Rolling, and we're expanding it. We now have an indigenous podcast. We're expanding into psychedelics, of course, as part of what we're doing, and just getting more diverse about how we're presenting what we feel is an important integration again of the heart and the discriminating wisdom of the mind. So yeah all right.

Dylan: 52:44

Thanks a lot, rago. I just want to end with one question which I asked all my guests and what's your daily routine, what's your practices around practice, spiritual practice you mean yeah anything can spiritual health. Yeah to whatever detail you want to share I mean every morning I do practice.

Raghu Markus: 53:03

Some of it is strictly around meditation, some of it's around pranayama. Breath for sure the hanuman chalisa do. Do you know what the hanuman chalisa?

Dylan: 53:13

is yes, yes, yeah, that's a chant. Yeah, if you can explain to people what valmiki, no, no, it's not no, it's, uh.

Raghu Markus: 53:24

No, it's um tulsi, das tulsi does that's valmiki is, the more is, the older. That's a version of of Ramayana, the story of Ram, but Tulsidas created the Hanuman Chalisa and he was the heart guy, shall we say. We were given this thing. I got to tell you there's a statue of this being Hanuman, the monkey god of India, in Taos, new Mexico, that Ram Dass got made with our Indian mother, siddhi Ma, and KK Shah, his Indian brother. Let me tell you, and Ram Dass himself says this, when I went to India I was more interested in Buddhism, not the gaudy Hindu stuff, and I kind of felt the same way.

Raghu Markus: 54:22

But then Krishna Das and someone else, they learned the Chalisa, at least how to pronounce, and got the translation of what the words were 40 verses in praise of the monkey god, hanuman, and basically it reminds him who he really is in order to do the things he needs to do to serve humanity. I mean, that's a very generalized version and that is told to us. Maharaji said every word of the Hanuman Chalisa is a, a Maha Mantra, the great mantra. So we learned it. And a funny thing happened to me.

Raghu Markus: 55:03

Personally, I don't know, I got like sucked into this vortex of transformation and every time I would do it, the time would stop. That that that moment I talked about before would happen. Time would stop. And is it not the same every time, but a lot of times it was the grand equalizer to the bullshit in my life. So that is something that's a big thing that's now many people in the west also in australia, new zealand know this chant, which is extraordinary. It's not easy to learn up by heart 40 verses of hindi, so, um, I just think that you know that that is, uh, probably one of the most important things that we're connected to is that, uh, particular chant.

Dylan: 56:01

What I really find, significant about it is that it is in hindi, like there's so many chants and mantras that people chant in sanskrit, but that's very difficult such a common significant chant that it's interesting how it really almost came to the level of these other sanskrit chants, let much later on. It's kind of the only one that I know, that hindi chant that has become on that high kind of status of yeah, so this is central to my and many others of us practice.

Raghu Markus: 56:33

Actually, the other terms of the meditation, it's vipassana insight meditation. Are you familiar with that?

Dylan: 56:41

yeah, yeah, very common yeah it is so people?

Raghu Markus: 56:45

yeah, so that those are the two, the ways it would bhakti, and buddhist right, right for us, you know so I think that's a powerful thing. The rest of it is uh, you know, I'm quite occupied as the director of the foundation, as doing the podcast thing and producing movies and books, you know all of the that kind of stuff. But it's I'm very fortunate to be in this position because it forces me to only do one thing relate to dharma, one way or the other. Yeah, you know.

Raghu Markus: 57:19

So I it's uh, yeah, good work if you can get it kind of a deal right, so I'm pretty lucky, and then so that that it's a lot of occupation. Uh, of course, uh. But I live in this phenomenal place called ohai and uh. Nature is all about uh and uh, and supporting dharma is the yeah. That is the other thing we should never forget. When people say, well, what am I supposed to do to integrate, say, a psychedelic experience? Well, start with walking in the woods, walking by a lake, by the ocean, you know. And every time you think of something you're clinging to remember we talked about clinging and grasping let it go, because in nature you can much more easily do that. Just start there. Then maybe two or three minutes of sitting in front of an altar with whoever it is that you like, and breathing, just getting with one's breath. There's two things. The Chalisa can come later.

Dylan: 58:34

Thanks so much, raghu, yeah I appreciate you being on the podcast and there's plenty, plenty of resources for people to check out and work to explore. So yep, yep, yeah all right thanks thank you thank you for listening.

Dylan: 58:53

If you enjoyed what you, please leave a review and subscribe to the show for more episodes on health, spirituality, consciousness. This is what we do at Vital Veda. So if you want to check out any of those resources, check out the show notes. If you want to come to the HERE Festival in Nauru this October for a month-long Vedic festival of celebration, social events and uplifting consciousness, hit up here-inworld, and if you want to join us on retreat next year, april 2025, where we will be diving deep, really enlivening healing capabilities in pulse and marma, with my teachers, the Raju family, go to vitalvatorcomau forward slash, marma dash retreat Until next time, much love.