UK Police Officer Pays Off £5k Debt & Quits Gambling #73

Brian is a serving Police Officer in the UK. Born into a single-parent household, he found himself struggling with a scarcity mindset, credit card debt, and a gambling habit. After turning things around, he now speaks passionately for folks to pay off their debt and start managing their cash.

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Transcript

You really can't argue with that. Yes, you can. Um, you know, mortgage yourself up to the eyeballs and have five or six rental properties where if you're leveraged up so much, that you've taken on so much risk and all it takes us 2008. Where everything's coming, crashing down. We expect to hear financial stories from bankers, financial advisors or folks in other jobs, but a policeman is a first for us on this podcast.

So sit back, relax and listen to this inspiring financial story, paying off five grand's worth of credit card debt, achieving financial glory. But remember, in order for people to hear these stories spreading the word is incredibly crucial. You know what to do to seek. Approval head to iTunes and leave a review.

It's the thing to do. Now. We've got a podcast episode to dive into folks it's another Wednesday. And that means it's time for your favorite UK personal finance podcast. The art of money-saving is back. This is the place where you can come every single Wednesday to hear inspiring financial stories from everyday people, just like you.

And. Um, we are in for a treat today because I have a fantastic conversation with Brian he's on Instagram as the frugal and the soap and the school spender. And he is a serving and practicing police officer. And I think this job gives some really. Unique insights into managing money, but all his own experiences, as well as paying off debt and just managing money in the public sector.

Enjoy this compensation and Tuesday Tuit. Brian, thank you so much for covering up the article that he's saving podcast. It's a pleasure to have the opportunity to discuss. And to, to share this story with the guests. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, what you do first of all, thanks.

Uh, Joshua on the podcast and what you do here is, is absolutely great. Uh, my name's Brian, I'm 32 years old. I'm on currently a serving police officer in the Southwest of the UK. And so I was born in the UK, uh, but actually grew up in Southern. And currently Taliban I'm accent. Cause I've been here long enough now.

So I went to school here and lost it pretty quickly. Um, but yeah, so I grew up in South Africa with, um, I had a single, single parent household with my mum. Um, I had a brother and a sister who now are dotted all over the world. So it's just, uh, it's just me in the UK at the moment. Um, I would say, you know, living in the UK, I feel quite privileged to be here.

I was born here, so it was quite easy for me to get citizenship, but. When I look back at South Africa, I think, you know, they've got some serious issues there. Um, so I'm, I feel quite privileged to be at the moment. And you know, about five or six years ago, I, I applied to join the police after multiple jobs in this sort of bar industry, and always kind of really wanting to get into one currently doing, not really knowing why, but it always gravitated towards it.

I finally took the plunge about five years ago to, to, to apply. And I got in after about a year and a half. It's a long, long process to get into the police as it, as it should be. Um, and that sort of coincided with my desire to learn about personal finance. And I've always been absolutely rubbish with money my entire life.

Absolutely useless and talk to my now fiance, we're getting married next year, but she's always been the person who's, uh, who's looked after the finances up until about sort of two to two and a half years ago. And I put that down to sort of a lack of mindset. I think, I think it's probably got something to do with where I grew up and being in a single household, but I've always had this sort of lack of mindset when it came to money.

Um, and I think that was the driving force, really, for me, starting to learn about it. So about. Well, about four years ago, um, I got myself into some debts, um, about 5,000 pounds worth of credit card debt. And that was just, you know, there was nothing massive. There's no huge payments to get to that amount.

Um, but it was just an accumulation of silly purchases and not really thinking of. Uh, as well as for some strange reasons starting to gamble. Now, that's not something I've ever done previously. I don't really know why, but I think I had this desire to just come across money. Um, and it clearly it didn't work.

So th the, the combination of, of that, um, as well as joining a new career and as I'm sure everybody is aware, the public sector isn't necessarily where you go to become rich. Um, so I took a bit of a pay cut to do what I did. No. I think the stars sort of aligned for me in the sense that I really started diving into personal finance and learning as much as I could reading as much as I could in a strange way, the lockdowns and coronavirus, you know, work-wise not so great for me, but for my personal life and personal finances, it really gave me the time to focus on my finances.

And I realized actually, I was used to that money. And I think the majority of people are, I think really people, the majority, especially in England, I think we're not really exposed to much information other than, you know, the old TV program. They might talk about, uh, talk about money or how to save money here and there.

But nobody really talks about the principles of money. Um, but it was accessible to me. So that really kind of changed it. And I thought the reason why I've created where. And I think a big part of who I am now is trying to share that information and just trying to simplify it and give as many principles and concepts as possible.

So I think, and I'm talking about kind of who I am, but I think it is, it's become kind of who I am as a result of my entire upbringing up until now. It's kind of ingrained in me to, to share this information, which, which is, which is why I do. You mentioned coming from a single parent households. Can you tell us how did that affect things at all?

So. In turn have effect on how you view money or you, you, you mentioned briefly about the kind of scarcity mindset that, that money was always tied to perhaps. So tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. I mean, I think it certainly would have, um, shaped my, my mindset around money watching my, my mum work extremely hard from a young age.

To to support myself, my brother, my sister, listen, we never had a terrible upbringing. Um, you know, in South Africa, there's no, you don't get money if you don't have a job. So, you know, there is no real option. You either you either work or find a way of getting money or you go hungry. That is the absolute reality of it.

So, you know, from it, it's a bit scarier. And I think that scarcity. It's almost easier to adopt in a country like South Africa or any other. I mean, we're very lucky in the UK that we, a lot of people forget that the majority of the world doesn't have the welfare states or the ability to be supported if you don't have a job.

So I think watching my mum really sort of struggling through life and luckily now she isn't and I'm really glad she isn't. Um, but seeing that, I think I linked working so, so hard. To just getting by. And that sounds like a strange thing to do. But when, when I started working at the age of about 16, uh, at a proper job, I always, and I know a lot of people say passive income, don't equate your time, spent with money.

You earn, try and get as much sort of passive income as possible. But I always felt like all I really deserved was the minimum, uh, you know, have, have, have shelter have. Never be comfortable. I always thought the people who had a lot of money, you know, they were so lucky, you know, I never going to be that person.

So I'll just work as much as I can, you know, as many hours as possible. And all of that's really going to do is give me the bare essentials. And I think that scares the mind. Yeah. As come from not being taught, I didn't have that knowledge and it's not my it's not my mom's fault. She just, I think it's a generational thing previously, you, you go to work, you work hard and you pay your bills, you pay your mortgage and that's just the reality of it.

But the truth is until you go out there and actually learn this and learn that, you know, there's so much information out there for, you know, just, just the wonderful internet that's available to us. I started to understand that actually I have an influence in, in, in my mindset, which will in turn, improve my income and, uh, in the future, the ability to retire potentially retire early, but at least retire with dignity.

And to me, I just thought, you know, I was going to be working until state pension age. That's always how I thought. Um, whereas now the reality shifted because, because of. That's really interesting. And I love this comparison. It's not something that I've thought much about. So from the welfare state that we have in the UK and sometimes people's reliance, or certainly people get helped out by, by that welfare state, uh, to.

To South Africa where that doesn't exist at all. I think one way in which I've seen this play out before is, is in the states so that you know, that, that similar mindset of reliance on your yourself. So my question to you then is what do you think about that? Is that a good thing sometimes to have that say yeah, you know, make of life what you can, and if you, if you put in the work, you, you know, make hay while the sun shines, that kind of thing, do you think now being in the UK and having something like the welfare state.

Is that something that you go towards now in a positive manner, thinking actually, this is the right way to go, to have that support for, for people that are in vulnerable positions. Uh, it's an interesting question and it's certainly not one that I'm not qualified to answer, but I think it's a double-edged sword.

I think I'm very grateful that I live in a society whereby if you know, you know, if everything went wrong, I had. Uh, it's sort of backstop. I have the ability to have at least a roof over my head and food on the table. It's not going to be a luxurious lifestyle, but it's going to be enough to survive. I feel grateful for that.

However, I also think that there's the fact that it's there and actually a lot of people. Are so reliant on it and there's no incentive to go out there and make something of yourself. And I'm not saying that people who are on benefits are lazy, that's clearly not what I'm saying, but what I w there is no real push behind you.

If generation above you and the generation above them have haven't worked. And haven't really had the mindset of, you know, what, actually, we can change our entire future generations. By just a few steps and a few mindset shifts. The fact that there is the ability to just not work and not, you know, because the way I see it and especially the job I'm in working, isn't just about money.

It's not, it's, it's a purpose. And whether it's working for yourself or, you know, packing shelves at Tesco, it really doesn't matter what it is. You need a reason to get up. You need a reason for your mental health, as well as your physical health to go out there and earn. And that combined with thinking about your future and learning how to manage money.

Whoop, I think improved so many people's lives more mentally than physically. If, if I were to choose, sorry, if I, if I were to choose which one, I would rather have a welfare state just to clarify, I think, I think it's the better option of the two, but I think there's a middle ground from not having one and having one where it makes some potentially too comfortable.

I think there's a middle ground web. Um, we need to find out and I think that's a job for the, for the politicians to, to resolve. You just reminded me of a conversation, actually, that I had with a really good friend friend of mine that we're going back to the scarcity mindset kind of thing. And she said, I'm reading this book or the moment or some kind of podcasts and they I'll paraphrase what she said, because I can't quite remember, but it was something like, you know, if you, if you think positive and.

You just have a really positive outlook on life and all of those good things will come to you. And she did this very kind of very subtle look to me, uh, and a wink or something like that, implying that that's the attitude that I have in life. It's very interesting. Cause I, I don't feel that I, I have that.

I feel like I'm more of a pragmatic types of their fight. I see a problem. Right, right. Let's find a solution. And. Again, I think that's a matter of upbringing, isn't it? So, you know, if you've had that scarcity mindset from a child, maybe you are more inclined to say, right? Positive thoughts rather than being more of a pragmatic person.

I think it's fascinating to hear that you've gone through this journey now as an adult where the cogs are starting to change and actually you're, you're finding your own independent. Two feet and making an independent financial plan. And I know that certainly that ability also to, to have. Idea in the back of your head that if the worst is to happen, that you do have the funds to have a roof over your head.

That certainly helps. Yeah, I think, I think it does. And you know, I've, I've put some content up previously in relation to sort of the welfare state, not in a negative light at all, because like I said, you know, I'm quite positive about it, but I think a lot of people think that, um, it's not enough people to get in.

Um, and not, you know, they should be given this universal income. And I know we have universal basic in some, to a certain extent in the UK. Um, but that it should be raised. And I think people's concept of it potentially is slightly skewed. You know, it is there for the bare essentials. And luckily I'm at a point now where even in two years on a reasonably low income household income, I I'm pretty confident that I will never have to use it and I will always add to it and my taxes will help other people who are going to struggle.

Um, so yeah, I think, you know, you're right. It's, it's happened later on in my life and I'm 32 now. So this only happened really when I was sort of 28, 29, when I really started diving into it. And I think it, like I said earlier, it was an aligning of the stars almost. I think I could have easily got to 40 or 45 or even 50.

Well, I'm starting to think about, you know, what is retirement? What does that look like? What am I going to have? Because before I started learning about sort of anything to do with personal finance, if you asked me what a pension was, you know, I would have given you some sort of vague concept idea. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have been able to break down at least, you know, the SIM the simplicity of what it is now, it's me.

I don't, you don't need to know the ins and outs of a pension that's for sure. Because you know, people's full times job full-time jobs are actually to, to help people with those. I wouldn't have been able to tell you anything about tax relief or employer matching or I wouldn't have, I really wouldn't have had a clue.

And that to me terrifies me because I can still remember what it felt like to know nothing. So I think I almost have a duty in a certain sense to at least share it. Not that I'm going to take over the world and everyone's going to learn about what I'm saying. Cause that's not what it's about, but if I can at least help one or two people who have never thought about this, Then starts learning about it and makes even a tiny little change it's gonna improve their life because I know it, I know it, the huge difference of discovering this or doing that groundwork when you're at 28, you said versus doing that when you're 45, I mean, the difference is it's hugely substantial and that is going to complete.

Change your, your financial life, for sure. Um, so th th I mean, the more that we can get this information out to people the better. Yeah, absolutely. Um, going back to the credit contact, so you, you cute, uh, 5,000 pounds of credit card debt. Can you tell us about, about that? So what, uh, from, from my perspective, and think I'm interested to know maybe some of the misconceptions that we, we think about people experiencing debt.

So first of all, just lay out. How it was and maybe some of those misconceptions. Sure. So, yeah, so it, it coincided with, um, a drop in my income. So I took probably a 15,000 pound drop in my income to join the police. Um, that coincided with, like I said earlier, for some reason I thought it would be a good idea just to, to start gambling.

Um, and that was it. It wasn't a horrendous addiction. Well, it was, was just online gambling, probably out of boredom more than anything. Um, but I certainly didn't have the money to do that. And you know, there's, I've always had a credit card since the age of 18. Um, I've never really used it for much, but I thought my, my idea of a credit card was it's it's free money and, you know, in the future it'll just work itself out.

So I. I think I had two credit cards in the end one, one with a balance of about 2000 pounds and then one with 3000. And I distinctly remember the day that I, I completely maxed out both credit cards and I can honestly say possibly one of the loneliest days of my life. That was because I have, I have a young daughter.

Um, and my fiance, both of which, who I know would have, would have shouted at me. Should they have known this? Um, so I, I almost took the burden on myself. Um, and I thought I really do remember sitting on my sofa thinking I really don't know what to do here. And I, you talk about conceptions misconceptions.

I've always just accepted that credit cards were okay. I've always thought, you know, everyone I know has got a credit card, everyone's quite sensible as credit cards. You know, everybody talks about paying it off every month. Nobody does, but everybody says they do. So I've always just thought, you know, I'm, I'm not a non anomaly here because I'm the only person who isn't paying off the full balance.

I'm just paying the minimum payment of, you know, sort of 10, 15 pounds or whatever it was. So I felt absolutely. Uh, it was probably the best, um, word to describe how I fell as a result of credit card debt. And it could have easily gone two ways. Um, you know, I was reading a statistic the other day that, that the suicide rate as a result of, uh, of debts and money problems is, is absolutely horrendous.

It's something like you're three times more likely to commit suicide if you're, if you're in, uh, over 10,000 pounds worth of debt. And you know, that is terrible. That is absolutely terrible. To me, because especially in my job, unfortunately, that is a reality that I see on a regular basis, but I can see why people would go in a direction of a, to despair because although there are sort of agencies out there charities that can help people who are in debt, it's a lonely place to be.

And unless you, unless you're resilient and happy to absorb information and put it into practice, which. I am and always have been that sort of person. I'm S I'm grateful that I am like that because I didn't go in a direction of, you know, depression and, and you know what, I, I can see why people do and it's terrifying and people need to know this because glamorizing debts and it, to me, it it's, um, it needs to.

It's often glossed over actually the, the emotional attachment and the trauma and the most important, the shame attached with debt as well. That ability to think, ah, I got, got all of these, these problems, but I don't, I can't really, I don't want to talk about it. Cause if I, if I talk about it, things are gonna get worse or then I have to admit and nobody likes talking about money.

No, no, of course. And I can see that spiraling out of control and then I'm going down a very, very nice. Negative path. And I think you're right, that there are, there are two options there that you, you either face up to it or you just don't know what to do and you, you and you panic. And, uh, and that's where I think it can, it can spiral out of control.

And it's so great that you've outlined that today. Cause I think it reminds us all when creating content, reading articles, whatever we're speaking to a huge audience, right. Uh, of, of, of people. People managing money in very, very different ways. And I think I'm guilty of that sometimes myself of thinking in my own mentality and not having the ability to put myself in the shoes of other people, uh, because I haven't experienced that severe kind of debt.

It's harder than for me to, to relate to that. And it's really good to hear from you today to say, to remind that that sense of shame, uh, because. We want to be helping people, not adding fuel to the flames in terms of bringing even more shame. We want to help people have tools to say, right, you can get yourself out this dance and you can build to build a bridge to, to the other side.

Yeah. And I think, you know, and it really does come down to having that sort of lifeline. And for me, um, it was YouTube for me was a huge advantage because. The knockdown gave everybody a lot of time. And I think, you know, the whole lockdown savers, a lot of people, lot of people did well financially.

There's a lot of people that did very badly. Um, but there's also a lot of people who realize actually I have, I have a decent amount of income, even if it was a low income, you realized you bare necessities, aren't possibly as high as you thought, or the things that you thought were essential, certainly arm.

Um, so for me, you know, Things like in America, it's very Americanized, but Dave Ramsey, his approach was a big inspiration. I would say for me because he's very much mindset driven. And I think that is a very, um, it's a strong theme in the, in the content that I create is that it is really about mindset because I'm an evidenced by the fact that I highly own, or certainly a couple of years.

Didn't earn anything lower, low than the average household income. My, my partner just gone self-employed just before the first lockdown. Um, so we were in a position where actually on paper should have been a terrifying moment, but once you step back, you know, learn the basic concepts and principles and change your mindset.

It's possible even with the low-income. It will often criticize Dave Ramsey saying, oh, his stance and credit cards. Absolutely ridiculous. You know, credit cards of fine. If you know how to deal with them and be responsible. Yeah, so course that can be the case, but what we have to remember, he is speaking to millions upon millions of people.

If he doesn't have a hard line about how he, how he feels about debts or the solution to getting out of debt, then it becomes really watery. So we have to respect the fact that he's speaking to millions of people and he has this hotline. Therefore people know where that line is and it's there. Peril. And if they want to cross over that, whatever it is, it's their own decision.

Yeah. And I actually, that's something that I respect. I think it's good that we have these hard, hard financial lines. Uh, therefore we know where we stand from time to time. Well, I think, I think he's hedging the bets. Isn't he saying realistically, there is zero chance of you going bankrupt. If you haven't yet.

That's his, that's his kind of, sort of that he says that quite a lot. Doesn't he? And it's true. And you can't argue with that. You really can't argue with that. Yes, you can. Um, you know, mortgage yourself up to the eyeballs and have five or six rental properties where it's, you're leveraged up so much that you've taken on so much risk and all it takes us 2008 for everything to come crashing down.

Um, and yes, you can become a millionaire. You can, you, you can come very wealthy with taking a lot of risks with. And in particular debt. Um, but equally I'm not willing to take that risk and I'd rather have the security. Not taking on debt and knowing that I'm in full control. So we've been talking about the struggles of debt in this episode.

If you're someone in that position, then I'm going to leave a very helpful link in the show notes for Christians against poverty. Now you don't have to be a Christian to seek their advice. It's free and it's open to everyone and they do some really fantastic work about helping people. Get through their problems of debt and define some really fantastic financial solutions.

So link in the show notes for that. And also I fought, I take this perfect opportunity to remind you to head to iTunes and leave a review. It's been a while since I've had a review probably a month or so, I want to say so if there's anyone out there that wants to leave a review, that would be. Very much appreciated.

Now let's get parts of the episode. We're going to start talking about the job of a policeman and managing your money. Definitely never had a policeman. So I don't think I've ever heard any UK personal finance contact with a policemen before. So this is going to be really unique. So. You've already mentioned.

I have someone in the family that isn't a police. So I know that the salaries, um, are low. They're not the best in the world and you work really damn hard, really hard. And can you just outline what that's like? So, um, a policemen on the journey of learning more striving towards financial independence, what is low?

Like, well, You're definitely right. Being a police officer at the moment is, is a, it's not the easiest job in the world. And I think not helped by a lot of, um, media outlets that are discussing very big cases involving police officers. So I think, um, those, um, those bad apples are making it a much more difficult job, uh, on the frontline currently.

Um, but I think in relation to finding. When you joined the police, um, you know, it's, it's, it's very much talked about that. The salary drops. It does, it does incrementally increase as many public sector jobs do. And it does actually reach a decent wage after, after a couple of years. So, um, it's not necessarily, nobody joins the job for the money.

That's for sure. What I have noticed. There's a lot of my colleagues, um, don't talk about money. Um, And I think it's not necessarily just true to the sector that I'm in. I think it's, it's universal, but I think in, particularly in the police, we have support and we do have, um, an agency and I know we'll touch upon it.

The police mutual, who, who do offer advice and help with money, but the brief encounters that I've had with my colleagues, because people often don't like talking about their own final. As I've learned, but we don't talk about and discuss the importance of finances because I've learned that a lot of my colleagues don't even pay into their own pension.

And that's a terrifying thing for me because as, as you will know, the public sector in particular, you know, sort of NHS and police pension is, is truly one of the best pensions that you can have in the UK. Um, there's not many defined benefit pensions around at the moment, unless you're sort of very high up in a very big business.

So the fact that we're in a sort of landscape where people aren't paying into their pension in a job as long and potentially dangerous as what we do terrifies me. Um, and I think police mutual are doing a good job of trying to get that information out. But it's like, it's like any industry you need you, unless you have the desire to learn people.

Aren't going to change that people live in the now people live in the, especially me take a picker. You, all you are concerned about is what's coming in that month. You're not worried about when I'm 60, I'm going to earn X amount per year because it's so far away. It is, you know, what am I going to struggle to pay my mortgage this month?

I'm not going to answer my. And then 3, 4, 5 years later, when, when are you ever going to sit down, have a review and say, I'm ready to start losing a large percentage of my salary now, um, to worry about my future and less Anessa becomes a priority. And I think age with age comes up priority. Um, You know, it there's this, I think it's not unique to the police thing.

It's unique to, to society. We, as a society, aren't focusing on teaching people, these things, I don't know. I keep going back to that because that, that for me is the root of all of this. Um, I have view unique perspective, you know, in the police, but I am lucky enough to have the ability to have a very good person.

Um, and I'm not solely reliant on that because I don't want, I certainly don't want it to be in on, you know, the, the things that we talk about and share about both of us, the content that we share, I put into practice as well. So it's not necessarily just that, but, um, it's I can see, I can see why people struggle with it.

It's it's not, you know, the con the conception, the perception of, um, public sector pensions is that that's why people join the truth is over time. The. Deteriorated. Um, and it's, the benefits are slowly slipping away. And truthfully, we sacrifice quite a lot of our salary. I sacrifice, uh, 15% of my salary. My gross salary was going to the pension.

So it's not, it's certainly not this kind of free money is given to you because you know, you work in the public sector. Um, you very much do sacrifice quite a lot of your own money to happen, to come across people in those positions. So people in. Teachers childcare in their sixties on the cusp of retirement.

I cannot emphasize this enough. They are absolutely desperate to retire. They're on their knees and they're, they're just wanting to scrape by and just wait, counting down the days until they can stop working because their body feels tired. Their mind feels tired. I think just want to put their feet up.

They've been working hard and. They are in a position where they will get to the state pension and things like that. And they, they do have, uh, some kind of other pension as well. So that's great. But I think the common theme that, that seems to be coming through to me is that for these people, that desperate to stop, uh, but the state pension and other pensions you've done feel really.

In that. And I just think about the potential crisis that we're facing, that we have so many people that aren't taking this seriously, and then looking at the people, doing it now. Who perhaps could be in a better position with things like state pension, or even just general pen of a pension benefits. If they're struggling.

My gosh, our generation is, I don't know what it's going to be like, but we, you know, we need to stop doing something for sure. To, to be specific to, to police. There was, um, there was a big appeal and about five or six years ago for people who were on an old. It was a very, very good pension. Um, and it was deemed after an appeal that there was discrimination, um, to people's age.

Uh, and actually, um, it was, it was, it appeared and they were successful with their appeal, uh, because they tried to lower the pension and increase how many years people had to work. And it affected a lots of police officers across the country. Um, and it just goes to show in something that seems as, um, concrete that you're going to have this amazing pension.

Isn't so concrete and things can change. Um, and because people are so reliant on whatever it is, whether it's a defined benefit pension in the public sector or the state pension, when you're 68, let's say, for example, for me that we don't know. If that's going to be around exactly when it's going to happen.

So people always just put it off for the future. And I've had, I've spoken to a few people now who very similar to you in that, that you said in the last couple of weeks, you've spoken to people coming up to retirement. And it's so sad because I was talking to a few officers that have, like you said, they earn they've earned their retirement.

They have, they have, if anyone that spent a day is the police in today's society. We realize how hard they work. And if you span that over 20 to 30 years, um, it's time to put your feet up. And these people are being forced to potentially stay another five years in a job that is very physically and mentally demanding.

And that, to me very much terrifies me not having the option towards the end. And I think that's the same in any industry. If you, if you just think, you know that let's say 60, I think that's probably the age that everybody would say. Yeah. I would like to retire at about 60. Um, you know, I've got my, my, my mother, my partner's parents that don't have, they haven't got the option to do that because they just haven't done that planning at a young age and put those practices into place.

And that for me is probably the biggest driving force for worrying about the future and retirement. The fear of getting to that age and having to work a lot longer than I need to. Okay. Let's talk about a little bit about that. Pew. I don't know too much about it. About police police mutual. It's something I've looked into.

So it's a, it's a scheme or place where people can go to seek certain bits of financial advice for, for police officers or whether it's mortgage advice or, or even investment advice. So I know that you can deduct from your salary at certain amounts and then police mutual will invest this money on your behalf.

Is it five or 10 years or something like that? It's not, not, it's not as long as a pension scheme, for example. And, um, it seems like a really good initiative for, for people to start if they don't know really where to go, how to manage money. But most importantly, when I think when I briefly looked into it seems that they it's not necessarily dependent on your age.

They'll just stick you in some kind of fund. And it seems to be quite bond heavy, for example, Perhaps it wouldn't be great if you're in your twenties or something of that. So I just want to know what your thoughts are about that. Yeah. I mean, I think it's better than not having it. I think they, they do offer sort of things, lower rates on mortgages and car insurance, home insurance, life insurance, or all those sort of things.

So they work with external companies and try and get the best rate for. Uh, that includes sort of police, um, active police officers, retired police officers, police staff, uh, and friends and not friends, family as well. So there is, there are those sorts of benefits to it. It doesn't necessarily from my experience with it always work out to be the cheapest, but I think they do try and give a very good service because they're trying to almost thank, thank the industry and the sector for what they do.

Um, in relation to the savings schemes. I think, I think they're brilliant. Um, my understanding of it is they offer a set. Um, are they invested on your behalf? And you're almost a guaranteed a set interest rate over a period of time? Um, I haven't done it myself personally, but I do know a few officers that have done, and I think it's a great idea.

And if that gets you doing it, then brilliant, you know, the people who are doing it on really necessarily concerned about whether it's in bonds or stocks, because I would S I would argue that a lot of them don't really know the difference. And I think I certainly didn't. You know, if this, if I knew in five or 10 years time, I wanted to purchase a home or go on a big holiday or something like that, where I'm guaranteed a, an interest rate higher than let's say 3.2% currently.

Um, at least my money's not losing its value. I would, I would, I would put my money. I wouldn't necessarily look deeper. You're looking deeper because you know, about personal finance money and you understand the difference between a bond and a share. Um, however, there's not many people that I would say do so I think it's, it's put 'em as putting them under the guise of police mutual, but there's a lot of financial work in the back where yes, they invest your money for you.

Um, and they all try to put systems in place to, for people to think about their future. Um, and they put sort of good programs together for people who are coming up to retirement, um, and getting them ready. And things that potentially other companies might not have in place. So, you know, mentally getting you ready as well as financially getting you in order.

So I think they offer a good service, um, from the broad range, from new officers, all the way up to people who, who are about to retire, they do offer quite a few different sort of, um, schemes and options to, to improve your money situation. Amazing. I think at the heart of that, it goes back to. Automated financial behaviors and that.

So taking the emotion away from, you know, like you said, 15% of your income, that's, that's a lot. And if you can consistently do that over a period of time, you just get used to that. And as you scale up as your salary increases, every couple of years, you can stick with that 15%. And man, that's amazing. And that's the stuff that Ben.

Inform and improve your, your retirement as, as you, as you get older. So I think that's, um, I'm always a big fan of that and I think you're right. Like I sometimes want to optimize, you know, why, why is it so bond TAVI, when did the, but um, your rights, if we can get into the habit of doing that. And if people do it, maybe that don't have that knowledge, then that's, that's amazing.

And it sounds like it's a really wise path to at least look into if you're, if you're a police officer, great stuff. That's fantastic. And I just wanted to tap into that as well. Uh, finally about, um, talking about money in the police. So you said that there's, it's not something that's really discussed very much.

Why do you think that is? And do you think it's, is there a chance of improving that? I think. It's just as it is everywhere it's to be subject isn't it, nobody, people are happy to talk about what everybody knows, what is available to the public. Everybody knows that a police officer's salary oriented is do a quick Google search and you can find out so there's no, there's no, there's no way to hide that.

Everybody knows what you're earning or your colleagues, and everybody knows. So there's no real need to discuss that. And everyone's quite open about that. And, um, you know, the incremental progress to get to the point where you're earning as much as you possibly can. And that's always, obviously. Hmm. I think people openly talk about pensions because that, because it's so widely talked about in, you know, in society, in the news, everybody knows police have a better pension than most.

So I think that's talked about enough. I don't think we need to focus on that, but we aren't in society talking about the initial values of people and why you need to save. People are terrified to other people to find out about their debts and what they're actually spending the money on how much money they're spending on going out and eating.

And these people, nobody wants to talk about it. And I think until the information is accessible enough through channels, like let's say what we're doing or, you know, Martin Lewis or, and I think things like that, if there's the needs to be more people that are viewed at. Inspirational. And I think Martin Lewis, I, before I started learning about sort of personal finance, I viewed him as the kind of the person who I would go to, but he's a very sanitized version of what I think a lot of people are talking about in this realm that potentially you and I are kind of in, we kind of go into the real sort of depths of, um, the mindset and investing.

And I think he's the opposite of Dames, Dave Ramsey almost. He's almost like. He, he, he, he can't talk about the investing because I think he would just get lynched if he said something slightly wrong. So I think he's, he's almost the opposite. Very cautious, very cautious. He has to be. He does have to be, I think, behind the closed door, he would have a different conversation to, to, to, to talk about potentially what he does.

But I think as the mass market, he talks about, I know I'm not going to go Martin nurse. Cause I think he's brilliant. But w when it talks about. You know, saving one pound here, one pound there, those are all things that we need to focus on, but we also need to focus on investing and why we need to invest.

Um, and I don't think because he doesn't talk about it. It's not in the zeitgeists people aren't talking about it and sharing that sort of information. He talks about pensions, which the thing is great. And he talks about student loans quite a lot, which I think. 'cause he talks about it quite often. He has a massive audience and he's on almost every TV channel that you put on telly.

So I think people will talk about student loans more, but until we have more people like him, they have a large platform and they're gonna be on TV and talk about these things. Let's say like in America, Dave Ramsey, because you will see that this detective statistics don't lie in America. More people invest a lot more people invest, but that's because there's more people in the public space.

Talking about investing, you know, people, they keep people in England. Uh, most people that I talk to about investing view it as gambling. And I know that because I used to view it as gambling too. And I used to think he was, he was very much, you're putting all your money into Tesla. What if, you know, Musk ruins, you know, electric cars and it's stocks drop, you lose all your money in there.

You know, there goes your pension. That is honestly how I view. And until you do learn about things like index funds and who knows, who knows about index funds, unless you, unless you can achieve an index fund, the average person on the street has no idea. Um, so we need to have more people. We need to have more people who are mainstream talking about it.

And I don't know if it will happen, because like you said, it has to be cautious. You know, you have the, you have the. The overarching sort of ombudsman watching on you and making sure you don't say one wrong thing because you're gonna get yourself in trouble. Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. And we, we, we love a bargain and don't get me wrong.

I mean, I'll hold up my little, uh, 10 pound

I know, I know. I, you know, don't get me wrong. I love a bargain, but you know, the, the one pound off a coupon, whatever it is, that's not good. Really, you know, get, get you anywhere in your retirement. So, you know, investing is at the heart of. Have a really good financial plan. And I think that's, that's what excites me really.

And that's what I speak to all my friends about, you know, just trying to encourage them, you know, just start sticking a 10 or whatever it is. Just get into the habit of doing it. Most of which is ignored. I fear, which is, which is a shame. But, um, I mean, you can only try as hard as you can try. Absolutely.

On a Nevada point in there, it really doesn't need to start with. I started investing with Moneybox, um, about sort of two and a half years ago. And that's because, you know, at that time sort of putting 10 pounds as the stock market was, was, I was thinking, can I afford to lose 10 pounds? But I thought, you know what?

I can, let's try that for 10 pounds. And then as soon as you. You realize this isn't as scary as I thought, potentially it may be. And then you just incrementally. Yeah. I'll pay it. And then you put 10 pounds every month and then you can add it to 15 pounds every month. And before you know it, you're not thinking about it.

And you, you just, by practicing it, you're learning how to do it. You don't need to know the ins and outs of how the stock market works, because I don't think, you know, even people who spend a lot of time learning about it really fully understand it. But once you actually, once you actually do it, And practically put money into and see the numbers go up and definitely down.

Then you start to get desensitized to it and you realize this isn't this terrifying thing that I once thought it was that hedge funds and really, really rich people put their money into the stock market. It's that's not the case, you know, anybody can, anybody can get started. Now, even my eight year old daughter has money in the stock market for goodness sake.

The question are you interested in that? Therefore in the, in the fire movement, financial independence. It's a goal that you're striving towards one day, possibly not in the, um, the sense that everybody else talks about it. I think I have my own version or idea of fire. I would, I don't, I don't intend on retiring in, in retiring at the age of 65.

Um, as my job currently would, would, um, entail that I would have to do, um, I plan on at the very latest at the age of 50. Not have it wanting to, um, be in a position where I don't have to work. And that doesn't necessarily mean I have I'm matching my income currently because, or our household income, but at least enough so that I can step back and say, I can focus on other things.

And however I do that isn't completely mapped out yet because I think even in the last two years, my idea of my future changed rapidly. It changes almost every week. The thing that I'm focusing on is being consistent. And the things that I talk about I put into practice, because I think like you said, you know, you surround yourself by people who know these things.

And I think of many people I follow on Instagram or, or tech talk or YouTube or all of those things, we all know will speak the same language to a certain extent. Everybody knows these terms and it's very easy to kind of get deeper and deeper and deeper into it. And I'm going to start investing in cryptocurrency.

But I want to step back and I try and remind myself every sort of month or so when I do a budget religiously every single month. And I always rein myself back in and think what is the long-term goal? Um, and I know Pete, Pete Matthew, from the meeting, meaningful money, he was a big inspiration for the UK to have content that I absorbed.

And he talked a lot about our financial plan and a one page financial plan in particular, which I, which I thought was a really great idea. And I did do that, um, last year, which I need to update actually. But it, it, it's a great way of seeing visually on one page, your own idea of what fire is. Because it may not be retire earlier 35, 40 like that, you know, a lot of people they're hardcore fire movement that want to just save twenty-five times their income and let's do that by next year.

And then, uh, and that's great. And if I, if I had the ability to do that, maybe my mindset would change and maybe I would, but that is not realistic. And I, if I was on, you know, a hundred thousand pounds a week, I would do it. But I think, I think you need to be honest and realistic. For me, it's, it's about that consistency and making sure that every single month I'm investing and I'm investing a percentage of Y uh, and I will always try and increase it.

And I think by just doing that in five or 10 years time, I'm going to look back and think this is I'm in a position now where I never could have dreamed that it would have been just by making it a habit and automated. Very interesting article this week published by the BBC. Oh, maybe it wasn't published this week actually, but, um, I'll leave it in the show notes for people to go and find.

And it's the BBC talking about the fine movements and the comments were very interesting because I think it sums up actually a lot of our conversation today. So I got some of them on the, on the thing here on the screen. Uh, So one person says if they've been spot enough to save money and make investments in good for them, not everyone is so lucky to have a well-paid enough job to be able to afford to do that though.

So I thought I would say that that's an interesting one. Someone says their privilege is overwhelming. What about when the stock market crashes? That's another one, Joe, cool pay for them. We can't get our pension for the three years. And we paid into the system all our lives over 42 years. Absolutely.

Unbelievable. And another person goes on to say about upper middle class millennials. Stock stock, post photo showing diversity, not withstanding, of course. So a real good range decks. I mean, yeah. A good range of completely incredible. Absolutely. So I think actually our conversation today it's really sum this up so well that, that you've, you've summed it up in a way that I would have never been able to.

So I to, I want to thank you for that. Sorry. I interrupted. I think that comment in particular about privilege is interest. And it's one that I've come across quite a lot in, particularly with my content that I put out on Tik TOK. And I think the reason for that is because it goes out to such, such a diverse range of people because it just forces it, it forces my face in front of somebody's screen, who would never ever look for me.

Um, There's again, there's two sides to that. Isn't there. There's that's great. Cause somebody might go, oh actually, maybe he's saying something that resonates with me. And then there's the other person who thinks, you know, you're just a privileged white person. Middle-aged English man who has everything and everything.

And unfortunately that is, um, that is quite a common theme. And I don't know whether it's because we have the ability to, to type really quickly on a comment on a video or on a BBC. Um, and it, it invokes a kind of conversation that everybody, you know, you know, you're causing an argument, but despite saying that, um, but I honestly do think there's a lot of people that do have that mindset.

And, and, and it worries me because I didn't come from a privileged background. I wasn't poor. Certainly I was not poor. I wasn't an abject poverty, but by the standards of, um, of the average UK citizen, or even the below average, I had a lot of. And it's easy to say because I'm talking about money, um, that I had a privileged background and it's it's um, and it, it almost, it, it, it does, it strikes a chord with me because, um, on face value, I may be privileged, you know, uh, if you could quite clearly easily make that assumption, but, but I'm certainly not.

And I think that people, that mindset, that victim mindset is dangerous in any aspect of life. But in particular, because we focused on finance. I think you it'll keep you, you know, in, in a vertical has poor for the rest of your life, whether it's a poor mindset or poor. Yeah, absolutely. And what that does is it completely shuts down the conversation.

So w with the comment that guy it's just immediately the drawers come down and th that's that's the end. And going back to what we were saying earlier on about shame, about money, that's only perpetuating. Feeding into this shame, because if we shut down the conversation, we don't have an ability to, to have that back and forth and say, well, what do you think about it?

You know, I've learned a lot from you today just by you sharing your experiences. That's really made me think, oh actually, maybe I should reevaluate this or that. And that's great. I mean, we need to keep doing that more and just keep listening to people, listening to ideas, listening to stories about how people manage money and that in turn, then it's going to help hopefully influence.

Your own financial plan. The whole business course is that none of this stutters you from that automation of just set and forget, you know, every you're 15 pounds into money box, it goes, come rain or shine. I think that's a great, fantastic conversation. So I'm going to start wrapping up the podcast now shortly, but I have a series of questions that I ask every single guest, the first.

Can you name an embarrassing financial memory or purchase? I bought a 300 pound watch once when I was, um, when I was, which may not be a lot to some people, but when I, um, when I wasn't, I think I was probably earning about 14, 15,000 pounds a year and I certainly couldn't afford it. And I, um, I think it would make, it was, it was fancy for me anyway.

Um, I really suffered for about three months wearing this watch. And I just thought, this is, this really is materialism at its finest. I just wanted everybody to think that I had this money, which I clearly didn't as far as percentage of what I had and what I owned and why hell was worth. Um, yeah, it's embarrassing.

Very good. And what about to resources that you enjoy? Is there a YouTube channel or podcasts that you'd read commend? The, so there's not one, you know, there's not one in particular that I would, I would, I would go to other them potentially, um, the meaningful money, either podcasts or YouTube channel, but everybody else, I follow, you know, hundreds of people that do it and, you know, including yourself.

And I think everybody has their own little flavor. And I think you need to, you need to follow a few different people to, to get route a wild ride. View of finance and find what works for you. Because if you just follow one, like let's say Dave Ramsey in America, you become, you know, indoctrinated into one thing and you don't look at all different sports.

So I think there's so much content and just, I would, I would advise anybody. I mean, if you listen to this podcast anyway, you probably got some sort of interest hopefully in money and saving money. You're growing. But if you don't really spend a lot of time listening to podcasts or, or, or consuming content about this, I'd advise you please just, just to search some content and, and make it any area that you don't know.

Learn about it because that's the only way you can improve. And I say, when your way that you're going to be confident enough to, to, you know, potentially be either financially free or at least comfortable. And most importantly, where can people find you to discover more of your content and maybe to get in touch with you as well?

Sure. Yeah. So, um, my channel, uh, across all platforms is frugal spenders, and you just search that and either Instagram, um, YouTube or. Um, I started on Tik TOK, which, which was quite a funny story because my, uh, my partner, um, she's a wedding planner and, um, she started creating content and she, she forced me to make a video about it.

Um, luckily, luckily she did cause one of them. I would say viral, but it wasn't, I've got, I've got a couple of hundred thousand followers and that inspired me to get going. So Tik TOK, as funny as that is, it's kind of got, got me boosted, boosted what I do now. So if you want to contact me, please, um, you know, Instagram is probably the best place to just message me there.

And I will, I will give you as much information as I possibly can about anything that. Fantastic. Well, I'll make sure all of those details are in the show notes, so people can go and find you. Thank you so much, really interesting conversation and a lot to digest and really enjoyed it. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Yeah, thanks for having me. So the episode is sadly drawing to a close shortly, but to not fret, we will be back next Wednesday with a brand new podcast episode. And if you are someone that wants to be a podcast, guests that do get in touch, it will be a pleasure to hear. You can write to me the art of money saving@gmail.com or you can write to me on Instagram or follow me into the scrap too, at the art of money saving.

Now, it's also important to see that we talked a little bit about investing today to make sure that you seek your own independent financial advice. None of the information on this podcast constitutes as financial advice. We also mentioned money box. There are loads of other companies out there.

Robo-advisors so make sure you do your own research. See you next Wednesday. Leave a review Vita.