Navigating Writing and Publishing with Book Coach Julie Artz in Conversation with Elisabeth Paige

Navigating Writing and Publishing with Book Coach Julie Artz

In this episode, Elisabeth interviews Julie Artz, a seasoned book coach and author who assists writers crafting empowerment and justice-driven stories. Julie discusses her journey from technical writing to book coaching, her services, and the importance of finding the right critique partners and support systems. She also introduces the WYRD Writers Collective, a community for writers to gain craft knowledge and peer support. Julie emphasizes the importance of writing communities, sharing experiences, and navigating the publishing landscape. She offers insights into her own writing process and aspirations, providing valuable advice for both budding and experienced writers.

00:00 Introduction to Julie Artz
01:04 What is a Book Coach?
01:34 Motivating Writers and Overcoming Challenges
03:28 Julie Artz's Journey to Becoming a Book Coach
08:14 Finding the Right Authors to Coach
10:39 The WYRD Writers Collective
19:26 The Importance of Critique Groups
24:29 Writing Conferences and Retreats
29:23 Personal Insights and Advice for Writers
32:44 Diversity in Publishing
34:48 Final Thoughts and Advice

You can find information about Dr. Elisabeth Paige at www.mindfulhappykids.com.

Transcript

Elisabeth Paige: 0:00

Welcome, Julie Artz. Well, this is Julie Artz and she is actually my book coach. So it is a pleasure to have you on and to learn more about you and your work. So do you want to take a couple of minutes to introduce yourself?

Julie Artz: 0:16

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much for having me, Elisabeth. It's great to be here. Um, my name is Julie Artz and I help writers who are writing the kind of status quo busting empowerment justice forward stories that really can change the world. Um, whether you're writing a novel or a memoir, um, I love working with people, helping them slay their doubt demons, and also just get their manuscripts reader ready. So I will work with someone from that initial spark of an idea all the way through to pitching agents, uh, dealing with editor feedback, all the way through. all of the things to really help you have a career as an author.

Elisabeth Paige: 1:04

What is a book coach exactly?

Julie Artz: 1:08

Well, I like to describe a book coach as a mix of a cheerleader, uh, a writing instructor, And a little bit of a fairy godmother, because there really is a mix of that craft learning, editorial work, but also the cheerleading and emotional support that can really help make the writer's journey a little bit smoother and easier.

Elisabeth Paige: 1:34

Can you talk about how you help motivate your, uh, writers?

Julie Artz: 1:38

Yeah, I mean, the thing is, I've been writing novels for 20 years now, and also poems and short stories, really, um, essays, all, all different types of writing, and so I know How hard it can be to make space for creativity in a busy life to how hard it can be to deal with the doubt demons with the rejection that is inevitably part of this process if we're trying to send our writing out into the world for publication. And, uh, and I've learned a lot of techniques for doing that. Keeping motivated for, um, you know, I don't really like that idea of, of having thick skin because I think it's the antithesis of what we're trying to do as writers, right? We're trying to be empathic and open ourselves up to the world and to the truths of the world, but to, um, but rather than thinking of it as thick skin, I like to think about it as, um, as separating ourselves. from the business side of things that is the part, of course, of the process that can be so rejection filled. So a lot of it is just empowering writers with knowledge of how the industry works, about how story works, and some of it's just the commiseration of being like, yeah, I've been there. I've been stuck too. Um, I've tried out A revision and it hasn't worked. And I had to go back and do it over again. Uh, I've sent things out into the market and they got rejected. They didn't sell. Um, but I also have seen great success as well. That can really give us something to shoot for. Right. Um, so sharing those moments of success and failure, um, and just normalizing that it can be a real, um, up and down and, uh, and wild journey To, to be a writer and to try to live a creative life.

Elisabeth Paige: 3:28

Do you want to talk us through your book coach journey?

Julie Artz: 3:33

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I didn't start out as a book coach. I actually started out as a technical writer and technical trainer in the high tech industry. I actually didn't know that working in publishing was a thing that I could do. Um, I didn't, I didn't live in New York and that at the time was where I thought all of publishing was happening. And so I, I didn't even, I didn't even consider it, even though I have been writing stories and poems and essays and things since I was a tiny child. In fact, I still have some books in my closet that I, that I wrote in some of those school young authors programs that I keep around just because I think they're really, really fun. So I was working as, as a tech writer and a tech trainer and I was not loving it. Um, so I started writing. A novel. And it was, it was really bad. It will never, it will never, never see the light of day. And, um, but I went out and I queried it too early, uh, and too soon. And I even got some requests for, for pages, but it didn't, it didn't get published. So I kind of put that aside. We moved. I had a couple of kids. I took some time off from writing and eventually I started to feel the itch again to, to start. To start writing novel length work again, instead of just shorter pieces. And so that was around 2011, 2012, which some of you, if you've been in the industry for a while, remember it was sort of the heyday of the Twitter pitch. Phenomenon. And I got really into it, right? There's a little bit of gamification of it. Um, these are, these are contests where you could pitch your book in, in, um, you know, a couple of sentences and, um, and there was a real knack to it, to writing this ultra short log line that really expressed what your book was about, um, to hopefully get an agent or editor's attention. And, um, through that process, I started. Being in community with other writers. That was really the heyday of writing Twitter and I loved it so much and met so many people that I'm still friends with today during that process. And I start helping other people with their pitches and realized I was pretty good at it. And that sort of led into me doing some developmental editing work for people. And I was already doing some freelance writing and editing on the side. just as um, sort of a part time side hustle. And um, and I knew that from my work as a tech writer and um, tech trainer that whatever I did next was going to be something that, that was going to be in the writing editing space because that's just always been my interest. So I was like, Oh, well maybe, you know, maybe I could do this. People are telling me like, wow, you give really good feedback and um, and maybe you should do, um, do it full time. And then I met Jenny Nash. at author accelerator and she said, Julie, you should come be a book coach and, and work with me and I'll, I'll teach you how. And I didn't even know what a book coach was at that point. I knew what a developmental editor was and I was doing that work. But um, but what. Coaching is, is like a developmental editor plus a writing instructor that will stick with you for the duration versus just reading the materials and, and handing them over and saying, okay, now you implement the, um, the suggestions I've made. It's more of a one on one teaching situation where we'll take those, um, those developmental edits that I give you and we'll create a revision plan. And we'll, uh, we'll revise things. together and I'll give feedback along the path so that you stay on track with your revisions. And so once I started doing that work, I was hooked and I was able to just a few years later, take it from a part time side gig to full time work, which it's been for the last quite a few years now. And I love it. I feel like it was the work that I was always meant to do. And I feel I'm so honored to be able to help so many writers create their stories and put them out into the world. Um, I've gotten to make more books in the last 10 years than I possibly could have made if I was just writing them on my own versus helping other people with theirs. Um, and I love that. Because as you know, the publishing process can be really, really slow and daunting, and it's, it's fun to help other people succeed and really find that career as an author that they've been dreaming about having.

Elisabeth Paige: 8:14

One author that you think you can help versus another?

Julie Artz: 8:19

Well, like so many relationships in the publishing industry, critique, partner relationships, auth, um, author, agent relationships, um, author, editor, relationships, personality fit is huge. So I definitely have the sort of genres and age categories and themes that I'm most familiar with. For example, I don't. Coach picture books because they're really hard and it's not my area of expertise. I don't write anything except very, very bad picture books. Um, I have a couple of clients who do write picture books and it's not that I won't read them, but I just, um, I, my sweet spot is definitely from middle grade through adult. So, um, so I don't tend to work with, um, with people outside of that. I don't tend to do a lot of. Like, um, self help type nonfiction either. I stick more into the memoir and women's empowerment and social and environmental justice space in my, um, in my nonfiction. So I don't work on cookbooks or, um, or like, uh, lifestyle books or that, that sort of thing. Cause again, it's just not my area of expertise. Yeah. So, so personality fit, uh, genre and theme fit, but also it's up to the writer to what type of environment they like to work in. There are plenty of writers out there that are perfectly happy to just get some developmental edits and go off on their own and revise. They have confidence in that, um, in that process and they don't necessarily need the extra one on one help that a book coach can offer. That's totally fine, but there are other people who, who need that help, or maybe they've published. several books, and they're looking to switch genre or age category or try something really new, and they're not sure how to implement that new craft technique that they haven't done before, like switching to multiple points of view or multiple timelines. And that's absolutely something that I can help with. Switching to speculative and needing to do a whole different level of world building, for example, is something that, that I love helping people with. So, um, That's why before I work with someone, I always set up some Zoom time, uh, so that we can chat and see if we're, if we're a good fit, um, if our values are aligned, if our, if I can really help the, the writer achieve what they're, what they're hoping to achieve.

Elisabeth Paige: 10:39

Can you talk about the WYRD Writers Collective, WYRD spelled W Y R D?

Julie Artz: 10:45

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so I, a couple of years ago, I started coaching a, a very, very small group, just four writers. I had four middle grade writers, I had four, um, adult fiction writers, and I had these small groups, and I was loving working in the group. Because every time we jumped on Zoom to do a group coaching call, I would say something to one author, and it would absolutely resonate with the other three people on the call for them too, even though they hadn't asked the initial question, or even though we were talking about this other writer's specific story. And I started to realize that there's a real limit to the number of people I can work with one on one, because I Also, I'm trying to work on my own writing and, um, there's just a limited number of hours in the day. And that one on one interaction takes a lot of time and also a lot of emotional and creative energy too. But I can work with more writers if I work in a group setting. And they benefit to not only just, Oh, I can work with a lot more writers, but they can benefit from hearing other people talk about their struggles about that commiseration and, um, and that, that kinship that, that you find in a coaching environment. So last year I decided as an experiment to, um, to teach a more extended, um, larger group coaching, uh, group. And I did a revision course that lasted for seven weeks. And at the end of that course, I was like, Hey friends, would you like to keep meeting? Because it's, we've been in this together seven weeks and I don't really want it to end. Um, and they said, we don't want it to end either. And so the workshop was, was born. And what I've done is I've created a, um, uh, Discussion forum that has a general discussion, industry news, all different kinds of, um, of discussion threads, but also genre and age category specific threads where people can interact 24 hours a day asynchronously. Whenever they're online, we've got people, um, all across the country. So lots of different time zones, but then in support of that, of that community, I also have a. Full suite of course materials that people can access video lectures, workbooks, written lectures, activities, assignments, that sort of thing that will go all the way again from that initial spark of an idea to setting up your writing practice to making time in a busy schedule to write all the way through the pitching and publication process. And of course, drafting and revision in between there and, um, and then also in addition to the course materials in the community, we have a regular meetups either for co writing sessions for, uh, craft talk once a month. And, um, and live coaching calls where people can come on and bring a question to me or bring me a scene or a query that they want feedback on. And, um, again, that live coaching in, um, in the group setting has been really, really powerful because we have middle grade, YA, and adult authors and memoirists. And, um, you know, uh, you bring something in the middle grade space, Elisabeth, to the group, and we almost always have some way that we can tie that into what the memoirists are working on or what the adult fiction and YA authors are working on. Um, and, uh, we have fantasy writers, but, but the contemporary writers still have, um, learning that they can get from talking about the fantasy, the fantasy writing. And so it's been a really, really, uh, beautiful, I think, collaboration and, and, and we've created a really good sense of community. So I'm pretty excited and it will never get bigger than maybe about 30 writers. So I want to keep it small enough that I can always know, you know, have deep knowledge of the, what the writer's working on, on their story, where they're at in the process and all of that type of thing. I don't want it to become one of those huge, huge groups where there's anonymity. I want it to be a really small, safe, and intimate setting. And, um, and I'm excited. We're, you know, we're about eight months in now and we're just about to add a new cohort, um, to the, to the community. And I'm really excited about the, the possibilities in this group setting.

Elisabeth Paige: 15:12

And I have to say also that part of that group, because I'm in that group, and part of that group has been, um, developing colleague relationships with some of the other people in the group. Like, I am now a beta reader for 1 of the other people in the group, and that, I think, has been really helpful for both him and I. In terms of getting feedback on our writing, so I think that relationships get formed within the group that are really special.

Julie Artz: 15:42

Yeah, I agree. And that was always my hope because I know that it can be really hard, especially in the post COVID world when so many, um, of our, of our in person ways of meeting up with other writers have maybe not, not bounced back since, um, since COVID, at least not in, in my area, they really haven't. And, um, so creating this online space where we can meet other writers, where we can, again, get that support and the commiseration as we're all on this journey together, it's. It's been really powerful and, um, and having writing community is one of, I think, one of the best indicators of whether you're going to have success as a writer because it is such a lonely journey otherwise, if you don't have, um, writing friends to just normalize the stress of it, the, um, the way that we are putting our hearts onto the page and then presenting it to the world and saying, here, uh, love this. or reject it, right? That's a tough thing to do if you're doing it alone without, without writing buddies. And of course, I am a big proponent of the value of fresh eyes on your work, even beyond your book coach's eyes, right? Because I can only read a story with fresh eyes one time. And of course, as we know, People usually go through much more than one round of revisions before something is reader ready. So, in that revision process at each step, you might want to get some fresh eyes to see how, um, the story that, that you've written is translating to the page from that perfect idea that's, that's in your head. And, and fresh eyes. from a reader who has knowledge of your genre and age category is invaluable to that. So I hope there'll be many, many, many critique partner relationships that emerge from the collective over its history.

Elisabeth Paige: 17:33

Do you think that the challenges that people come to you with are different or varied by genre and age group that people are writing for?

Julie Artz: 17:45

Yes and no. I mean, I will say that certainly there are quite a few people who come to me because they don't know whether they're writing middle grade or YA. Or they come to me because they're struggling with getting the voice right. There are these craft types. challenges that are a little bit different from from group to group, right? There's different genre expectations if you're writing historical romance, for example, than if you're writing middle grade fantasy or YA contemporary or any of the other combinations of that. So the thing that I'm finding though is that Although I am a craft wonk and I love to deep dive on craft with, with writers that, that what many people need is really just a, someone to hold the container for the big picture of their story and the container for where they are in the process from initial idea all the way to reader ready and to help them guide them on that journey. on that journey. And that's pretty universal, no matter what you're writing. So that's a place where there's really a lot of synchronicity between all the different members of the group. So, um, yeah, so it's both. It's both. People are coming with specific craft challenges that might be different based on genre and age category, but also some really universal concerns. And I think it's comforting. And I find it comforting to know that I'm not the only person that's struggling with whatever the, the struggle of the, of the moment is. It's really validating that this is normal. I am not, um, I'm not outside the norm. Um, I'm not doing it wrong. Um, I'm just, I'm just getting through the process just like everyone else.

Elisabeth Paige: 19:26

From your perspective, how do critique groups work for people?

Julie Artz: 19:31

Yeah, so I am a big proponent of having critique groups, again, because of those, those fresh eyes I was talking about, and also just the writer support. So, as you know, and, and maybe, maybe your listeners know, don't know. I run a critique partner matching service a couple of times a year called CP meet cute. Um, sort of a hat tip to, um, to romance novels and that, that first meeting of, um, of the love interest and the main character in a romance novel. Uh, and of course that speaks to the fact that. critique partners, you're in relationship with them. So there is a, again, a personality match that's really, really important to be made when you're trying to find a critique partner or a critique group. So I've definitely had a lot of people come to me and say that they've had really bad critique partner experiences. I have also had bad critique partner experiences in the past. Um, But I've had some really, really, really good ones too. And so I want to help everybody find the kind of critique partners that I have that have really been my rock these last 10 or so years, since I first started building these critique partner relationships. And it really helped me weather some, some pretty, some pretty big bumps in the road and some pretty big disappointments that, um, that I've had in my own writing. So I think that it is very possible to jump into a critique group and, and bring your pages too early in the process. And it can, it can be really discouraging if you're writing your first novel and you're maybe just a couple of chapters in, it's possible that when people start picking apart the, like maybe how you're doing dialogue or that the voice isn't working quite right, or the way you've built your scenes, it can be really discouraging and it can make you put the novel down and be like, I don't know what I'm doing. I can't write this. But it can, in the right circumstances, if you say, this is my first novel and I just want to focus on the big picture, are you getting a feel for how my character is coming across on the page? That can be really helpful and fruitful. So communication as in all relationships, right? Communication is really, really important. Also knowing what you want from the critique group experience and also finding people that are up to date. about the same level that you are. So if you're writing your very first novel, um, you might not want to go into a critique group with someone who's multi published, um, just because you'll have different needs that, that won't align and it'll make it harder to, to, um, be in a fruitful critiquing relationship. But again, just communicating, um, what, what you What you're looking for and, and what you need, it can be really helpful in making sure that that group succeeds.

Elisabeth Paige: 22:21

How many people do you usually recommend that a person have in a, within critique groups and beta readers and stuff like that?

Julie Artz: 22:30

It really, really depends, uh, in part on personality type and in part on, um, on where you are in the writing journey. So if you are a writer right now who has zero critique partners, critique groups, I would say try to find one, um, and then see if you need more from there, right? So, um, I have two regular, regularly meeting critique groups. Um, one has four members and, um, and one has five members. And, um, we meet every week. We either exchange sometimes as little as one scene and sometimes as much as a whole manuscript, depending on what people need. And a lot of times in between that, we, we just meet for support and, and commiseration, brainstorming, um, that sort of thing. So, um, Outside of that, I have a handful of other writers that I'll trade full manuscripts with, um, in more of a beta reader type situation. So that's me speaking as someone that's been doing this for more than a decade, right? So, um, if you have, again, if you have zero right now, then just work on finding one person that you are aligned with that, um, that's looking for the same type of critique partner relationship that you are and just trade a little bit. You will build those relationships. up over time. Um, these, these groups that I'm in now have both been around for quite some time and their relationships that I fostered over a number of years before, before the groups were formed. And so things, things will evolve. And, and sometimes too, you'll have critique groups that, um, that come to a natural end and, and you move on. You don't meet together anymore. Somebody's schedule changes. That's okay too, right? Things change and, and grow over time, and your needs will change and grow over time as well. And that's, that's not a problem, again, as long as you're, you're openly and honestly communicating with the other members of your group.

Elisabeth Paige: 24:29

Can you talk a little bit about writing, um, conventions?

Julie Artz: 24:38

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, I was a huge fan of in person writing, um, writing conferences, but in the, in the pre COVID era. Um, I'm, as, as you might have sensed, I'm a, very much an extrovert, and I love writing. Being around other people and I get a lot of energy both from being at a big conference with people, but also teaching to, um, to a live, a live group. I do a lot of zoom teaching now in the post COVID world and, um, and I admit that I miss teaching live and, um, I'm actually excited that I'm going to be teaching at Willamette Writers Conference at the end of July, beginning of August in Portland. And, um, it's only my second time back at a live conference, a non virtual conference since COVID. And I'm so, so excited. That can be such a great place to get to hear from a lot of different industry professionals in a way that you just can't by trying to like look them up on Twitter or see what they wishlist. Those. Agents and editor panels the industry panels are worth their weight in gold and there are a few conferences That do provide those online um, I know The scbwi the society for children's book writers and illustrators still has an online component to their to their big national conference that's twice a year. Um, in fact, Willamette Writers also has a virtual option. And, um, so I'll be doing some in person sessions and some, some virtual sessions as part of that, but I will be on site in Portland, which I'm really excited about because, um, again, that's, support and community of commiserating with other people who are doing this creative work of of connecting with them and getting to talk about the journey. It's really one of my favorite things to do. Writer people are good people and I love to be with them as often as possible. So, um, conferences are a great opportunity for that. But I will also say it can get really expensive. Doing conferences, going to writing retreats, that stuff can add up. And there are a lot of low cost and no cost options for writers that do have, um, financial constraints on how much money they can spend attending these conferences. So it's not the only way to learn what you need to learn. And that's why I always try to offer, um, low cost and no cost resources to writers, just because I don't ever want someone to be held back from their writer dreams because they don't have money in the budget to go to a fancy conference.

Elisabeth Paige: 27:18

What about writing retreats?

Julie Artz: 27:21

I love writing retreats. I'm going to a retreat out on Whidbey Island um, next weekend for Long Weekend and I'm so, so, so excited. I'm already planning to all of the words that I'm going to write. Um, again, it can be so hard in a busy, busy schedule to make time for creativity especially when society doesn't want you to. undervalues artistic work and creative work. Um, it tells us it's not important. That's just a hobby. Uh, Oh, that's so self indulgent. You're doing creative writing. Who cares? And when you're hearing those messages from society, then it can really bring the doubt demons up. And like, why am I doing this? Uh, why am I doing this really hard and scary thing if people don't even value it? So getting in the room with other writers who do get it, who understand the value of it and can reaffirm, um, Um, all of your reasons for wanting to do the work in the first place, it can just really, really refill the cup that gets depleted, I think, from the busyness of, of life. And again, a retreat doesn't have to be a super expensive endeavor. Um, I, um, a couple of weekends ago, my, um, husband and kiddos were going to be going And I had one of my writing buddies come up and we did a two day writing retreat just here at my house. We didn't, it cost zero dollars. I cost a tank of gas for my friend to drive up from about 90 minutes away where she lives. And um, and that was, that was the only cost and we got to spend two days deep diving into our writing and it was, it was really, really amazing. So it's possible to do a do it yourself retreat at your own home without even going anywhere. And it, it can just be so fulfilling. To set aside that time to write, but I will say that it's also really great if you can add a buddy, um, because they can really, they can really help, um, again, with the motivation to keep your butt in the chair and keep writing and, um, and with that commiseration as well.

Elisabeth Paige: 29:23

How has your writing coach helped you?

Julie Artz: 29:28

Well, so Um, I have started just in the last maybe four or five months working with a book coach and um, and dear friend, uh, Suzanne Dunlop, who's an amazing historical fiction author. And um, actually the reason that I started working with her is because my new novel is something that I've never tried to do before. Um, it's actually got, um, At least four points of view, there may be another one coming online. We'll see. Um, and it's got dual timelines and Suzanne has a lot of experience with that. And I do not, I've written multiple points of view before. Um, but I've never tried, uh, multiple timelines and it was proposed. Um, so I really felt like I needed some additional support, so I reached out to Suzanne and come to find out she's writing a historical romance and hasn't done a genre romance before, which is also an area that I, um, I have a lot of experience in. Um, so we're trading coaching, which has been such a wonderful, wonderful process. Um, I will tell you, nobody, Pushes, um, another writer nearly as much as a book coach pushes another book coach because we both know what we're capable of. And so there's no excuses possible in, uh, in that, in that relationship. And we, and we know each other really well as well, which, which helps. Um, but we just, we just met on Wednesday actually, and we were emailing back and forth afterwards and just saying, I would never have tried this. She said, I would never have tried this new thing if you hadn't suggested it. And then I did something as well. And I was like, I wouldn't have done it if you hadn't said, Julie, go do it. And, uh, so that accountability, even for pros, I mean, Suzanne has 14, I think, uh, published books and has been doing this for many, many, many decades. And, um, and she still benefits from book coaching. So I really do believe that every writer can benefit from, um, from book coaching, um, and getting that accountability and that craft support as they, as they navigate the publishing journey.

Elisabeth Paige: 31:38

And just one affordable way for some people to do it is through a group process.

Julie Artz: 31:44

Right, right. That's the, um, part of the reason too that I, um, that I created the WYRD Writers Collective is because you can get access to me, um, every week and, um, both through the forum and through our live events that we have. for a fraction of the cost of working with me one on one. So I can help more writers and it's, it's definitely more affordable. And I also offer a sliding scale for writers who are writing, um, from groups that are traditionally underrepresented in publishing. Because I believe that stories change lives and that we need diverse books and um, that it's important enough that I, that I offer that sliding scale just to make sure that, that we're really encouraging a diversity of voices in publishing, which hasn't always been the case. We're doing better. There's still a lot of improvement that we can make in that space.

Elisabeth Paige: 32:42

Yes, I've noticed that. I've noticed that, yes, there has been improvements on finding authors for the podcasts from all kinds of diverse backgrounds, but you have to look for them.

Julie Artz: 32:54

Yeah, yeah, and part of that is because of, um, some systemic issues in publishing itself. Um, I, you know, I mentioned a little while ago that, that publishing used to be really, really heavily based in New York. And I mean, it's, It's, it's expanding outward from New York slowly, but, um, but as, as you know, New York is an extremely, extremely expensive place to live and, um, and starting salaries in the publishing industry are low for editors. And they're, um, and they're, it's a commission based system for agents. So diversifying writers is super important and something I very, very much support. But it's only one piece in the puzzle, right? We need to, we need to diversify everybody who's touching that book because it's going to create a situation where, um, where it's just easier to, um, to tell your story if there are other people looking at it who share some of your lived experience, right? Um, So publishing was very, um, you know, cis, het, white, and New York centric for many, many, many years. And, um, and the wheels are slowly turning to change that. But, um, but it's, it's gonna take a long time and it's gonna take a lot of, of real concerted effort. in order to, to make those changes so that these, um, these creators from traditionally underrepresented groups who have been out there creating all along, just because publishing hasn't been buying them in the same quantity that they're buying the, the traditional cisgendered white story. That doesn't mean that they haven't been out there telling their stories. They have been, they just have been, um, coming up against doors that, that were closed. And, and so now we're opening, we're opening those doors, but we have a lot more work to do.

Elisabeth Paige: 34:46

Interesting. So what would you tell your 10 year old self?

Julie Artz: 34:54

I think if I had it all to do over again, I would tell my 10 year old self, it's, it's okay to do the creative thing. Um, I definitely felt like Going into business was the way to go to pay my bills to quote unquote, have a career. Like I said, I never, I never considered that that writing or working in publishing could be a career for me until I was almost 40 years old. So, um, I'm, I'm thankful that I came to it when I, when I finally did, but I might have told my 10 year old self, it's okay to keep writing those stories. Um, I have this, this book in my closet right now that, um, that I wrote, I think when I was in sixth or seventh grade and, um, and it was a horse story because I was one of those horse obsessed middle grade kids. And, um, and on the, on the cover, I wrote, um, New York times bestselling author. So I think when I was 10, I knew I had that. I had that desire, but it felt like it felt like a fantasy. It felt like a dream and not like something I could actually do. And so I put it aside for many, many, many years. And I'm happy now, um, that I'm, um, That I'm, that I'm doing this work, that I'm working in publishing, and that I'm spending time on my own stories, even though that New York Times bestseller is still eluding me. Um, I now, my adult self knows that that is outside my control, but what's not outside my control is that I keep working on my craft and I keep working on my stories and keep being in community with other creators so that I can, um, so that I can keep working toward that eventual New York Times bestseller. That's actually a terrible goal to have as a writer, so I, uh, as funny as it is that I wrote that on the book, it's not actually even on my, on my radar as a goal now. Um, it's just to write the best stories that I can write and continue to try to find audiences for them.

Elisabeth Paige: 36:58

What would you tell a budding? author or illustrator?

Julie Artz: 37:05

I think this is going to sound counterintuitive or maybe a little harsh, but I think the number one piece of advice that I would give someone who is new to creating is don't quit your day job. Um, just because you're not writing or illustrating full time does not mean that you're not a capital W writer or capital I illustrator. It's possible to have a career in the creative space without. Giving up your day job. There's not in the current day and age. There's not room for very many people who are making enough living enough of a living to pay all of their bills in in publishing. It's sad, but it's true. There are not that many writers. Who are out there making enough to pay a mortgage to pay for kids college and that sort of stuff from their writing if you're listening and you're one of them, I'm really, really happy for you and you're also rare. So for the rest of us, the best that we can hope for is that we get to keep creating our books and keep writing our stories. and um, and that we're able to balance that with our day job. So, you know, if I, um, if I sold this book that I'm, um, that I'm currently drafting and, um, and it hit that New York Times bestseller list, I'll be honest, I would still do book coaching. I'm not going to give up that day job because it gives me the freedom to take creative risks and know that I'm not to, um, not be able to feed my family at the end of the month.

Elisabeth Paige: 38:40

Interesting. So what's on the horizon for you?

Julie Artz: 38:46

Well, as you know, we're just about to invite a new cohort of writers into the WYRD Writers Collective, um, here at the beginning of June, and I'm really, really excited about that. And, um, I am getting ready to be an empty nester. My, uh, my kiddos are going off to college next year, um, actually in the fall. I say next year, but it's actually next school year, which is just in a couple of months, right? Um, so we're going to be moving across country. We, um, we lived in Colorado for many years. That's where our kids were born and we moved away because of jobs. But, um, but we're, now that we are. Free, um, to do so we're, we're moving back to Colorado and I'm looking forward to, um, to having, to, having a fresh start, but also to, um, taking this time as an empty nester to recommit to, um, to my creative work. And, um, it's easy to get really busy with the day job. So I know I just told everybody, don't quit your day job, but I, I'm going to add a corollary to that. Don't quit your day job and. Keep finding space for your creativity, right, for your creative work. It is important and, and it will help you, um, find that work life balance that everyone talks about and almost nobody finds, so.

Elisabeth Paige: 40:11

Can you think, what's on your professional and personal bucket list?

Julie Artz: 40:15

Oh my goodness. Okay. So, um, I'm actually really excited about this. I have always wanted to, um, in terms of professional bucket list, I have always wanted to, um, to teach at a retreat and I don't have the full details to announce yet, but I'm going to be running a retreat hopefully, um, in early 2025 with a colleague of mine and, um, It's going to be a revision intensive. So there'll be a little bit of pre work that we'll do, um, before the retreat begins. Then we'll come together with a small group and we'll coach them through our revision process all in an intensive long weekend. So that hopefully they'll walk out of the event with a plan for how to execute their revision. And I'm really, really excited. I've always wanted to do this and I've run writing retreats in the past, but they've been more, um, generative. Like we just get together and we write. It hasn't had the kind of programming that combines, uh, an intensive writing course with, with the short term, um, of a, of a writing retreat. I do have a client that I just found out is doing, um, a writer in residence for the entire month of June. And I was so green with envy and I realized that's also on my bucket list. I would love to be a writer in residence and, um, and it's the kind of thing that I think I, I could actually do now that I'm, uh, that I'm soon to be an empty nester, right? I, I couldn't, um, couldn't really up and leave my, uh, my family for a month. To go write and, and we have a little bit more space to do things like that now. So, um, I think those, those two things are, um, are definitely on the bucket list. And, um, Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's anything else, well, actually pulling off. This multiple point of view, multi, multi timeline story will be a bucket list item. Um, a previous bucket list item before that was to write a novel in verse, which I actually did complete last year. So, um, so I'm, I'm chipping away at that bucket list.

Elisabeth Paige: 42:27

Good for you. That's great to hear. Is there anything we missed?

Julie Artz: 42:36

I think if I was going to just say one thing to sum up, I know I said, um, you know, everyone should, should work with a book coach, but, um, Obviously, there are going to be some people that have, um, budgetary constraints that, that make that impossible, um, to just be open to looking for different ways of getting the resources and community that you need to keep writing. There are many, many different paths. There's no one right way. Um, I, you know, if, if you resonated with what I said here today, I'd love to talk to you. To you about about working together. Um, if you're out there listening and thinking, man, I really need a book coach like Julie. Um, but if not, that's okay, too. There are plenty of people who find success, um, without ever having spent money on a coach or, um, a writing retreat or a conference. Um, but there are many, many people who aren't. Also who have benefited from the mentorship and the, um, and the nurturing of, of these group environments. So, so find what feels realistic and possible to you and, and seek it out. And if that's only free, um, and low cost resources, there are many organizations that are doing like$25 webinar series, for example, um, you know, Clarion West, the SCBWI, I run a few$25 webinar series myself from time to time, um, you know, Get, do whatever you can to get with other writers, uh, regardless of budget, um, because it will just make the journey better.

Elisabeth Paige: 44:08

Well, thank you, Julie. This has been great.