My daughter's Vision Therapy experience, at age 9 with Abby Allen Aaron

Denise and her now-grown daughter Abby Aaron share how vision therapy was for Abby as a 9-year-old, her results and relapse, and how her vision is now.

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Transcript

Denise: Welcome today to the Healing our Sight podcast. I'm so excited to have a special guest today. This is my daughter, Abigail. Well, we just call her Abby. Abby Aaron. She is a married woman now with a little baby. And those of you who followed me have heard my little explanation of what happened that summer when my three daughters got married in the space of four months. And she was one of those sweet daughters to do that. We're going to talk today about her vision therapy experience. I did mention in a previous episode that she did vision therapy as a ten-year-old. She was actually nine and a half when she started, and she's going to share a little bit about what that was like for her, so. Hello, Abby.

Abby: Hi.

Denise: Thanks for coming on my podcast today.

Abby: Yeah, of course.

Denise: We're gonna catch people up on how your vision was when you were really small. First off, I remember taking you to the doctor when you were about three and your eyes were crossing a little bit. I was a little concerned. I thought, oh, no, she's just like me. And do you remember that at all? Probably not.

Abby: No, I don't.

Denise: Okay. So, I took you in and the doctor said, okay, well, we'll just put her in glasses. This is what they did for me when I was that age. And I thought, well, that's about the way it's gonna go. Right. So, you had glasses from then on, right?

Abby: Yeah, as long as I can remember, yeah.

Denise: Same here. Would you say that you had any trouble in school?

Abby: I remember not really being able to see the board very well. Like, even if I was in the front of the class, like, every, like, not everything was clear and I don't know, other than that, not really. I mean, I got good grades most of the time and I don't know, I would say the most trouble I had was reading. Like, I was good at math, and I was really good at spelling, which was weird because if I had trouble reading, then why would I be good at spelling, you know?

Denise: Well, it's interesting because I didn't know you had any problems at all until I picked up this book called when your child struggles. Do you remember that conversation that we had when I figured out that I needed to take you in?

Abby: Yeah. I remember you asked me if I closed one of my eyes when I was reading. And I. I never thought about that before. I'm like, actually, I do. Yeah. Now that you bring that up, I do. Like, I'm usually laying down when I read, like in bed and stuff. So, I. I would, you know, switch sides with whatever page I was looking at, like, if it was the right side of the book, I would be laying on my left side and I would close my, I would have my left eye against the pillowcase. And then when I. When I would flip the page out, I would switch.

Denise: Turn over.

Abby: Yeah, I would turn over. And that would. That's not good for my eyes working together.

Denise: Exactly. Well. And that I had no idea that you did that when you were reading and that you were mostly reading in bed either. And so, it was because I asked the questions in this book, “When your child struggles” by Dr. David Cook. And it's in the section where it says, seven signs of deficient eye teaming ability. And I am not even sure why I decided to test this on you other than I was curious about how I could help children in school when I was substituting. Right. And so, I thought, I'll practice on my child. Right. And so, I said, I just went down the checklist. “Do you cover one eye when reading?” Was the first one. And then there was. “Your child tends to rest his head on the palm of one hand when reading, and the hand just happens to cover one eye.” You didn't do that? 

Abby: No, how do you do that? Like this?

Denise: Yeah. So that's not natural at all. It's not, but I would notice that probably.  “Your child holds the book to one side or turns his head to one side when reading so that both eyes cannot see the print at the same time.”

Abby: Yeah, that's what I did. Mostly this.

Denise: Like when you were reading in bed. Yeah. You'd have the turning to one side or the other thing going. “Your child adds or removes parts from words when reading.”

Abby: I don't remember.

Denise: I don't think you did that.

Abby: I don't think I did.

Denise: Yeah. “When copying materials from the chalkboard, your child repeats letters within words.” Was copying ever hard?

Abby: I don't think so.

Denise: Okay. “When performing math problems, your child fails to align the columns of numbers correctly because the numbers are seen to run together.”

Abby: I was good at math for as long as I can remember.

Denise: Yeah. And then it says, “your child demonstrates any of the signs given on pages 68 to 69. So, another chapter of the book gives some other things. And then I remember doing this other part on the next page where it. It says, ask your child if they ever have double vision by demonstrating with your hands where you put your hands together. And then you say, did the words ever do this when you. You pull them apart a little bit so that you're seeing a little bit of double. Do you remember me asking you that too? 

Abby: Yeah. 

Denise: And what did you tell me?

Abby: I don't remember. I think I. I think probably sometimes

Denise: I think you did. I think that's why I was concerned. I was like, oh, if you're getting a little bit of double vision, sometimes we need to address that right now.

Abby: Yeah, I think that's what happened.

Denise: Yeah.  And so, the signs were very small, really, for you as far as me taking you in. I feel like a lot of people would overlook it, maybe. Or, I mean, I did overlook it. Yeah. Or think, oh, it's not a bad enough problem to do anything about. Right. 

Abby: Yeah. 

Denise: Because, I mean, the book was designed for people whose children really were struggling. And I was seeing that in the school system with the children in the classrooms I was substituting in. And that's where my biggest concern was lying at that point in time. So, I took you in and Dr. Davies and his staff tested you and they determined that you were basically a mini me. Do you remember him saying that? 

Abby: Yeah, 

Denise: I was like, oh, great, if I don't do anything now, she's going to have problems way later in life. Right. I mean, they, they might not be huge problems until down the line. How long? I mean, who knows? Right?

Abby: Yeah.

Denise: And so, I was really glad that we caught it at that point. I would say you were probably a master of accommodation. Right. Because you were accommodating for the fact that your eyes really were not working together.

Abby: Yeah. I mean, based on school, like, based on my report card anyway, you wouldn't have ever guessed because, like, all throughout, I mean, I had a little trouble in middle school, but then, I mean, in elementary school and then middle school and high school, it wasn't, it wasn't bad. And I mean, that was after vision therapy, of course, but.

Denise: Right. Yeah.

Abby: I don't know. Yeah.

Denise: So, you started vision therapy in January of 2012 when you were nine and a half. And we basically did it all year long, every week, once a week until December. Can you tell us a little bit about how that was for you?

Abby: It was a love hate relationship with going to vision therapy, because, I mean, I got to go, I got to leave school early sometimes, but I sometimes didn't want to go because it was hard. Like, I liked a lot of the exercises we did. Like there was like some video game type, you know, when I just put 3D classes on and have a Xbox controller and like have to line up certain things, you know, and I liked those. But there were some activities that I just. They were hard. And I couldn't, I didn't want to do them because they like, I couldn't, I couldn't do them very well, you know.

Denise: Right.

Abby: And it hurt. Like, it didn't hurt, but it was like, I just couldn't like make it happen.

Denise: It was a strain.

Abby: Yeah, it was frustrating. Yeah.

Denise: Did it get easier as you went?

Abby: Yeah, I remember going. I remember going back to certain games and being able to do them a lot better as the, you know, months went on. I was like, I remember that was a lot harder last time and now I can do this. And like that, that one, like, I don't remember what it's called. The like thing where like you flip the cards over and it's like a telescoping looking thing. Yes, that thing.

Denise: Yeah. Aperture rule.

Abby: Yeah, the aperture rule. I remember that was one of the ones I didn't like because I could just. I would just stare at it for so long and so long. Like I, I just couldn't make them move in the right spot. And then I remember keeping on going one day, like one day I was just keeping on flipping them over and I could get a lot further than I did last time. I was like, whoa, that was cool. You know, I felt really good about myself.

Denise: You could see the progress at that point.

Abby: Yeah. 

Denise: Yeah. Awesome.  And then the end of the year, they determined that your vision was where we expected it to be.

Abby: Right.

Denise: And we stopped vision therapy for a while. Do you remember them saying anything to you about, oh, you should probably continue to do some things at home? Yeah.

Abby: I was never good at doing homework though, like that homework. I never really did it. It's, it's. That was. Sometimes you would make me, but it was just so easy to forget.

Denise: It was. I think I was a really bad vision therapy mom.

Abby: Oh my gosh.

Denise: Because I was more concerned about doing my own. And I would try to get you to do it with me and you're like, ah, whatever, Mom. And I didn't. It probably would have been way quicker for you if we had been really good about you doing your home therapy.

Abby: Yeah. And it probably would have stuck for longer too. I mean, the more I did it, you know, if I kept doing home vision therapy, then I wouldn't have gotten worse again, you know.

Denise: Exactly. Yeah. Because we, I was going to bring that up in 2015 when you were 13.

Abby: 12 and a half or 13.

Denise: Yeah, you were, you were 13 already. Because it was mid-year when we went back and had an evaluation and they said you've regressed, we need to do some more therapy.

Abby: Yeah, I was like, I was really sad. I was like, I got worse. Dang it.

Denise: And can you tell you were getting worse?

Abby: Yeah, I kind of suspected it because I'm like, stuff was not, you know, my eyes weren't working together as well, and I could tell.

Denise: Yeah. So, it was about mid-year June of 2015. We went back and they said, okay, we should do a few more sessions. And we did 16 more sessions. I figure we did 40 sessions when you were nine and a half and about 16 sessions the last part of 2015, when you were 13, from June until November. And then you kind of had a second graduation, but not really. Right. They weren't really doing a graduation ceremony for you or anything that, like. Okay, you're good now.

Abby: Right.

Denise: And do you remember what we did after that to kind of keep things in line?

Abby: Not exactly. What are you. What are you thinking of?

Denise: Well, this was our outing. I thought you'd just come up with this.

Abby: Oh, 3D movies. Yes. That was awesome.

Denise: Yeah.

Abby: How often would we do that? Like once a month or something?

Denise: As often as there was a really good one at the dollar theater that we wanted to see.

Abby: Yeah. Yeah, that was good. I did forget about that. But yeah.

Denise: Yeah, that was my treat to the two of us to have us both do therapy at the movies.

Abby: Right.

Denise: So, we'd go to the dollar theater because it was way cheaper for a 3D movie there.

Abby: Yeah.

Denise: And what was it, like $3 instead of a $1.50 or something? $3.25. So, we'd go to the dollar movie and watch a 3D movie. And then it seemed like on the way home, I would have. I don't know about you, but I would have heightened 3D.

Abby: I remember you're like, oh, wow, I can see that. And like you can just, like, you can just tell when you're driving. You're like, oh, this is, you know. Yeah, you just see a lot better in 3D after.

Denise: And it was probably right before my. Well, it was before and after my surgery that we were doing this. Right. So, I had not as good of 3D during part of that time frame. And then afterwards I was like, oh, yeah, now I really can see in 3D.

Abby: Yeah. I remember how excited you were after the surgery. Like watching the 3D movies after you had the surgery. There was a huge difference for you.

Denise: Yeah. And it was always good for you, right?

Abby: Yeah, pretty much. I could always. At least a little bit. I could always see, you know, I could always tell what was popping out and what was supposed to be, you know, in 3D. So. Yeah.

Denise: Yeah. So, you're like, okay, whatever, Mom. Yeah, we can go to the movies, basically.

Abby: Yeah.

Denise: But see, I was being tricky about it because I wanted you to have a little bit of vision therapy that you didn't have to work very hard for.

Abby: Yeah.

Denise: And it kind of worked. Right. Do you. Did you have any moment that stuck out when you said, oh, now I really see in 3D, and you hadn't before?

Abby: I don't remember. I. I mean, I don't remember really having that much trouble seeing in 3D, like, 3D movies. I could always see in 3D. But, like, depth perception wise, I've. It's kind of been a struggle, like, in the dark, especially when it's, like, right when the sun's going down, like, that kind of lighting, I can't see. Like, my depth perception is really bad. And it still is. I don't remember a certain moment when I was like, wow, I can see. You know, I can tell how close this is so much better now because, like, I. I don't really remember that happening, but. Yeah.

Denise: Were there any things that became easier to do after vision therapy?

Abby: I think my reading got a lot better. Like, I could read a lot faster out loud in class, whenever we had to read out loud or something. Comprehension. A lot of times I would just struggle so hard with, like, getting the words out that I wouldn't really think about what they meant. And so, I remember comprehension was tough for me in elementary school.

Denise: Okay, well, those are kind of big things that.

Abby: Yeah. They're kind of very important.

Denise: I think so. Yeah. Did you relate your vision therapy journey to my vision therapy at all over the course of time?

Abby: I don't know. I. Not really. I guess I didn't think about it too much.

Denise: You were a kid, right. So, it's like, my mom's making me do this thing and I don't want to do it.

Abby: Not exactly. I didn't. That wasn't my mindset. I just didn't really think about the similarities between our journeys. Like, I knew that you had glasses forever, and you know that our eyes had, like. That we had the same issue with our eyes. But. Yeah.

Denise: You never said, oh, I'm so glad I'm not going to be like my mom.

Abby: Guilty, not that way, though. I was grateful. No, I'm.

Denise: That's why I'm asking, though. Yeah, I. I think that's nice that you're. That you're like, oh, good, I don't have to go through Years and years and years.

Abby: I was. I. I did think that a few times I was like, I'm really glad that I don't have to struggle for so many years.

Denise: Yeah. What do you think your favorite thing is about this whole process?

Abby: Just knowing more about ways to help. I mean, because you've. You've helped other people's kids, like, other people's kids by, like, mentioning vision therapy to them. Know, like, Katie. Katie's mom, didn't you suggest that?  It's just nice to know that there's more resources for people that have vision problems than just surgery, you know? My pediatrician for Zion asked if I had noticed any crossing in his eyes. And luckily, I haven't since, obviously he's born, because that's how babies are born. But if there ever is a case where I see them cross or I suspect some problems, then I can just take them to the eye doctor and, you know, get it figured out. So, it's really cool that I have that. That knowledge.

Denise: Yeah.

Abby: I like that

Denise: you have. Anything else you want to share with us today?

Abby: I remember getting contacts for the first time. That was pretty cool because, like, I. I was there when Darcy got contacts for the first time, too. And, like, her whole drive back home was like, wow, the leaves. I can see all the details of the earth. Like, it's so beautiful. And it was kind of the same for me. Like, it was so clear. I don't know why. It was so much more clear than glasses. Like, it's clear and it's just, like, your whole eye, so you can see. There's not a frame. You can't. Like, there's not a part of your vision that's blurry still. So, it's just really cool, like, this is what people see that don't have vision problems. What? Like Dawson, my husband, like, he has really good vision, and he doesn't need glasses or contacts, and he can just. That's how he sees. What?

Denise: Well, so you're talking about the fact that the periphery was also clear.

Abby: Yeah.

Denise: Yeah. So cool that you brought that up. I think it's interesting that you didn't really notice that much of a difference.

Abby: Yeah, I mean, I was a kid, so I don't really remember, like, a lot because, like, I mean, I was obviously coherent at that age. You know, I was like. I knew what the world was like, you know, I knew what was going on around me, but I don't have a very clear memory of elementary school, you know, so that's where it's like, I don't really remember a lot of what happened, honestly. Okay. But I know it was good.

Denise: Yeah. So, it was probably a gradual enough process that it didn't.

Abby: Yeah, it wasn't like those.

Denise: Yeah. You didn't, you didn't have those aha moments because. Well, number one, maybe because you weren't working as hard at it.

Abby: Yeah.

Denise: Or just because it was so gradual, it didn't provide you with any of those things that were like, oh, wow, I see this way differently than I did before.

Abby: Yeah.

Denise: Which makes it harder to appreciate it as well, unfortunately.

Abby: Right.

Denise: And how do you feel your vision is now?

Abby: I think it's getting worse. Again, not good. But I mean, and there was a time like last year that I would try to not wear my glasses as much. Like, if I. Because I was just staying at. At home. You know, I, like, whenever I didn't need to leave the house, I wouldn't wear my glasses. And I did notice that once I started wearing them more like when I did wear them to drive or whatever, it seems stronger. The prescription seems stronger, which would mean that my eyes are. They got stronger. Wouldn't that mean?

Denise: You're talking about visual acuity again. Right. So probably means more that your eyes got better.

Abby: That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I got better. And they didn't need to rely on that strong of a prescription anymore.

Denise: Right.

Abby: Yeah, that's kind of what I. What I observed.

Denise: So you're not talking about observing anything with your binocular vision changing?

Abby: Like them working together? There haven't been many times, but there's been a few times where I have noticed that I kind of go cross-eyed a little bit and then I have to like, switch, like, fix my eyes. But so, I guess there are some problems with that. But it's not anything serious, so I could definitely benefit from going back to the eye doctor or whatever. But yeah.

Denise: Yeah. I think that the recommendation that they made when you finished that second set of vision therapy sessions that you do a little home therapy all the time is probably something that we could come back around to. Right. And so I'm thinking you. You should get that VR unit and get Mark Boyce's program, EqualEyes. Play some of those games for fun. Your husband could play them too. Whatever. Right. And keep your 3D vision strong. Right?

Abby: Yeah.

Denise: I think that that's something that doesn't always get talked about either. You know, people say, oh, I graduated from vision therapy, but we don't always emphasize the fact that it's not our normal way of doing things. And so, we. We have to keep reminding our eyes and our brain that this is the way they're supposed to do things. Right. This is the way the eyes were meant to work. And we didn't learn that when we were small. So, we might have to work at it a little bit for the rest of our lives, maybe. Who knows?

Abby: Right?

Denise: Yeah. So, I think that's not a bad thing to bring out in this episode, actually, that we can. We can continue to do more, and we can do the natural vision improvement thing, too. I mean, I did talk about that in one of my episodes when I spoke with Nathan Oxenfeld about the natural vision improvement. That's kind of what you were experiencing when you stopped wearing your glasses as much is this natural and natural vision improvement, which, doing more of those types of exercises. Or practices, not really exercises, because it's not really supposed to be work, but the practices of healthy vision help our eyes to get better as far as acuity as well as working together, honestly, because we're relaxing into the way the eyes should work. That makes sense.

Abby: Yeah. So, would it help to just, like, wear my glasses a lot less and then like, a new prescription and get new glasses? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's. That's what you did, isn't it? That's why you have. You don't have negative 6 anymore. It's like, what, -4.

Denise: -4.25?

Abby: Yeah.

Denise: Okay.

Abby: Yeah. Cool.

Denise: And I need to do more of that because I really do want to get down to zero. Yeah. Awesome. It has to be made a habit as part of your daily experience, the way that you use your eyes. And I'm the first person to say it's hard to change old habits. Right. And it takes repeated effort, constant effort to do that. And I, you know, not everyone's willing to do it. Clearly, I'm not, or I would be seeing more clearly. You see what I did there?

Abby: You're funny.

Denise: Do you have any last bits of advice for children who are going through vision therapy?

Abby: I'd say, it can be frustrating, but it's definitely going to be worth it. Like these few, you know, months or years of. struggle, a little bit of struggle can make a huge difference. And literally, the way you see everything can change your entire life.

Denise: Yeah, like, a lot, for sure. Any advice for parents?

Abby: Don't give up if your child is not, you know, wanting to do it. If they're. They say they don't want to go to vision therapy, or they don't want to do their homework, do your best to patiently encourage them to. I mean, obviously that's easier said than done, but yeah, it's definitely something that you'd want to encourage them to do.

Denise: Yeah, I agree. I wish I had been a better vision therapy mother. But we did get through it, and I'm glad. And I'm glad we could talk today so that I can encourage you to do a little more of it. 

Abby: Yeah. 

Denise: That's awesome. Thanks. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of Healing Our Sight. If you liked this episode, please subscribe, add a review and share it on your favorite social media. You can also ask questions or suggest a guest by visiting my Facebook page, Healing Our Sight and more information is found on my website, healingmysight.com thanks again for listening.