Inside view of COVD with Melissa Daniels

Denise and Melissa share their exciting experiences attending the annual meeting of COVD, the College of Optometrists in Vision Development in April 2023. Congratulations to Melissa for receiving the "Making Vision Therapy Visible" Award at this event!

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Transcript

Denise: Welcome today to the Healing Our Sight podcast. This is your host, Denise Allen. Today I have a special guest, Melissa Daniels. And you're gonna all think, well, you've had her on before, but this is a really special episode because Melissa and I had an awesome experience last week. Didn't we, Melissa?

Melissa: Yes, it was amazing. We went to the COVD conference in Toronto, Canada, and just basically partied with all of the brilliant vision therapy people for a week. And it was the greatest.

Denise: We did. And Melissa, as you probably know, if you've paid attention to what she does, doesn't do anything halfway. So, when she says we partied with them, it's true. She let them do all of the stuff to her, didn't you?

Melissa: Oh, yes. I was definitely the model for the strabismus class. They just experimented. I felt like I was, like, under a microscope and everyone was watching, trying to figure out what my eyes were doing. And they would get excited when they did weird things because my eyes were doing all the weird stuff they read about in textbooks but hadn't seen in real life.

Denise: Yeah, it was perfect for them. They were probably so grateful that you showed up.

Melissa: Probably.

Denise: I think they were, for sure. Yeah. And. And then Melissa encouraged me to volunteer in my class, too, and I couldn't make myself do it.

Melissa: You know, I don't know. It's fun to volunteer, but sometimes you can get a lot out of it by just watching, too. It's not all bad.

Denise: Well, I felt like the people who volunteered needed the experience.

Melissa: Yes.

Denise: So, one of them even found out that she…. It was someone who's a therapist or becoming a therapist and found out she needed some vision therapy because of what happened in her little volunteer session. So that was good.

Melissa: I think. You know what we should probably tell people. So, at this conference, you've got a lot of different levels of experience. So, you have, you know, the optometrist who's been a specialized VTOD or, you know, FCOVD, whatever you want to call them, they're basically very, very good at vision therapy. They've been doing it for 50 years. So, you've got those people and they've written books and courses. Then you also have vision therapists who aren't optometrists. They haven't gone to school or anything. And they might be certified or not certified, but they're there to learn and to get better. And then you have some people that have, like, just gotten introduced. Like, maybe they've only been a vision therapist for six months. And so, there's a huge range in, like, knowledge and skill levels. So that's why we were able to even go to the classes because we could be kind of like a vision therapist level.

Denise: Right. Probably have as much exposure as some of those people because we have been in it for so long.

Melissa: Exactly. And we've both taken our kids through the whole process, right?

Denise: Yes, yes. So, it, it wasn't something that was out of the realm of understanding at all, but if we went back later, we would understand it on a different, deeper level.

Melissa: Definitely.

Denise: Yeah. And what was your favorite thing that you learned in those classes, Melissa?

Melissa:  I think my biggest takeaway from especially the first, like two days where it was all about strabismus is that my optometrist was right all along what he's been trying to get me to do. And I'm like, no, I want to wear red and green glasses, and I want to do anti suppression and play Tetris and all of those things that are definitely a little bit more popular. Things like the Brock String. And those are all really central activities. And you have to have like perfect central alignment, which I don't have. And the more I learned in those classes, I just realized it's the peripheral fusion. That is where you have to start. You have to get your peripheral to fuse together, and then it slowly works in and you can eventually get central, but you cannot start there. And that has to come kind of as a byproduct instead of the focal point. And so, all the ways that they're talking about treating amblyopia, strabismus, it's all changing. Instead of getting each eye strong on its own, it's all about getting them working together first. So that was really good for me to hear. My optometrist has been telling me this, but I didn't always listen. So, to hear from someone else was like, okay, wow, everyone is saying this. There's probably some validity there.

Denise: Exactly. That was an idea that was really central to the class that I did too, was getting the. The peripheral really good and getting everything integrated really well too, because it included all the body movement part that we do some of, but maybe not as much as we should even, you know.

Melissa: Right.

Denise: Maybe that that body integration part is a bigger piece than any of us realize and another component that we should be looking at. Right.

Melissa: It's. Yeah, it was interesting to get it all at once. You know, you read a book here and a book there and hear something from your therapist or your optometrist, but to hear it all condensed together in a course and get it from start to finish. It just really deepened my understanding. It's like, oh, this is why they do it this way. This makes sense. The whole integrating your brain and your body is really fascinating to me. I loved it.

Denise: Yeah. And then we kind of got snippets of information from the shorter classes…

Melissa: Right.

Denise: on the other days, since they were an hour at a time, an hour and a half class, which was a little harder to go deep on.

Melissa: Yes. They still tried to go deep. It just went way over my head. So those ones were definitely more complicated. There were a couple that I was able to, like, follow, but I definitely was confused and just basically completely impressed. Watching the optometrist and vision therapist taking notes, asking questions, I'm like, I can't even believe they can follow what's going on. Like, these people are really smart, and, like, this is very sciency. I didn't expect it to be so fact and data driven, and I just didn't realize how much science there was behind something like Syntonics.

Denise: Yeah, I. I enjoyed the Syntonics classes.

Melissa: Right.

Denise: That doesn't mean I would know how to use them, though.

Melissa: Right. But you had a big Syntonics experience. You should tell everyone about it.

Denise: It was not in the class. It was in the exhibit hall, which is a totally different thing. So, there were a couple of booths that we went to. All the booths, they were all great. There are a couple of them, though, that were specific to Syntonics. And one of them, I think I caught her when everyone else was in class. Right. So, she had plenty of time to just concentrate on me, and I was happy to not go to a class where I would be lost. Right. So. But she had me do a test on one of the other booths to figure out what my need was, and then she addressed it with Syntonics. And this was different than how Syntonics were done in my doctor's office back when he first started doing the Syntonics things right after he trained. Because we only used the little visors that you put on your face that have the color in them. And this was actual light therapy. So, she figured out which light colors I needed. She placed them on my strip, my points that were stressed out. So, it was my left eye muscle in here that was really tight. So, she did this color here on a different color here and just kind of like acupressure kind of a thing. And the muscles released. And then I felt so much better. I slept better. My eyes felt better for days after. And now I'm like, I need to contact her and get those little lights so that I can see if I can do that again.

Melissa: Right!  I've been doing that in office, actually. A similar. You know where they are taking the little. It's like a little flashlight and they place it on your eyelid for those who aren't watching this. And there, there's different light colors and so it's like going in. And I always notice that when they finish my stereo is so much better. So, it is. It's like a different form of Syntonics, but it's really cool. I.

Denise: It works. Yeah, it does well. And the fact that it was specific to my need right then and totally addressed it and I was, it was awesome. I was just amazed. And then she did some other things too, and she sent me home with a visor to wear. Told me to do that twice a day. Got to get that as part of my routine now.

Melissa: Yes.

Denise: So. And one of the other exciting things for me was talking to doctors and I'm a little self-conscious about my eyes after all of this, Right. And telling them who I was and what I was about and having them say, well, were you eso or exo? And I was like, you mean you can't tell? That's so great. That's the best news ever!

Melissa: Oh, yeah. I was asked this same question, like, what are you doing? I tell them I was a patient. And then I say, I'm strabismus patient. I'm a strab, as they would call me. And no one ever questioned me. They're like, yes, you are.

Denise: I'm sorry.

Melissa: I felt like they were staring into my soul and I'm like, yes. My eyes go up and down and sideways and you never know what's going to happen with my eyeballs. So, yeah, they definitely did not have that reaction to me, which is okay. I actually was fine with it. All sorts of people were coming and doing the cover test where they cover, you know, your right eye and your left eye and break suppression and see what your eyes do. And they found it very exciting what my eyes would do because I do. My eyes do all the things. They go all the directions and like. And you have this, and you have this and it was pretty funny.

Denise: Well, it's. It was just an amazing experience all the way around for both of us in different ways, obviously.

Melissa: Right? Yes.

Denise: Your issue's got to be addressed by a lot of different people.

Melissa: Right. I got tips from some of the greatest minds of vision therapy. Like, I met my hero, David Cook, as you know, because I talked about him all the time, but he's an optometrist. He wrote the “Shape of the Sky” for those who aren't familiar with him. And he is just brilliant. He understands strabismus on such a different level than other optometrists that I've read or talked to. And he just gets it and knows how to explain how to see the world with both eyes and kind of make that adjustment. So, I definitely wrote him an email before we went and said, “I want to meet you. Will you sign my book?” And he said, “yes.” And so, when I saw him, I just went running. And he. So, he's such a funny guy, always very eccentric, wearing fun hats and shirts. And so, I just said, here, it's you. And I just got so excited. And he said, “oh, you must be Melissa.” And so, yeah, I. I think I got to do little mini vision therapy sessions with him two or three times throughout the weekend, and even, you know, sat by him in a couple classes where he would answer my questions. And it was just so cool. Like, he talked to my doctor, gave my doctor some ideas to do with me. So, I mean, just to be able to rub shoulders with these people was really neat.

Denise: Yeah, it was the best. It was. It was so fun to see you able to do that.

Melissa: I got a dance with him. He asked me to dance. 

Denise:  Everything, the whole thing.

Melissa: All of it.

Denise: Yeah, it was fabulous. I'm not as outgoing as you. I know. That is shocking. Everyone's going to be so shocked. So, I had to push myself to go up to the people and say, “hey, I have this book that you wrote. Can you sign it?” And of course, they graciously did. So, David Cook was not nearly as impressed that the book that I brought him wasn't “The Shape of the Sky,” though.

Melissa: He. It wasn't?

Denise: No.

Melissa: He wrote this.

Denise: No

Melissa: This is what he wrote “Melissa, I loved our conversations and meeting you, and you are my best friend forever. Bff.” No, he didn't say that. My dreams. He said that.

Denise: I didn't think he said that, because I thought you told me what he wrote before.

Melissa: That's what he meant by what he wrote.

Denise: No, it was so awesome to watch Melissa go up and say, I just want to be your best friend. He just laughed. So cute.

Melissa: He did laugh, I think. I think I was just, like, super hyper because I was so excited to be There, I don't know how many countless doctors would be standing there talking to me. And then my optometrist, Dr. Dan, would be there, and they'd look at him and say, is she always like this? So many times. And he would always say, yes, yes, she is.

Denise: Yeah, it's true.

Melissa: The world needs high energy people, too, right?

Denise: And you balance your doctor out because he's very…..

Melissa: Shy, Not shy, he's just quiet.

Denise: It's. He's. He's the opposite of what you are.

Melissa: Exactly. Yes.

Denise: Yeah. Which is totally fine.

Melissa: We talk about the exhibit hall and how much fun it was. What was your favorite booth?

Denise: Well, I mean, the Syntonics booth was my favorite.

Melissa: Yes. Okay, fair enough.

Denise: I mean, nothing could even. Well, actually, the one where they put all three together was pretty cool, too. You know, with the therapy bed that.

Melissa: What was that bed called? That goes around in a circle and you've got the headphones and the lights.

Denise: I don't remember what the booth was called, but it was. It was super cool. And we probably should have looked that up before we started this. Yeah. So, we had the. The aural, the music on our ears and cool headphones and then the bed going around and the light shining on our eyes wasn't there.

Melissa: Like, was the bed of vibrating, too? Felt like mine, like, had some movement. Like, not like a massage table, I can't remember, but it was. It was really calming. It was a sensory table.

Denise: Yeah. And so, the idea was to integrate the vestibular, aural, and visual together in therapy.

Melissa: It was really fun.

Denise: So obviously there must be some really good results from doing all of that integration. That's why they're putting that into the therapy.

Melissa: Yeah, exactly.

Denise: Cutting edge. Yeah, I. I just. I loved all of. All of it. Because in every booth, even if it was something that obviously I'm not going to go use right now because I'm pretty much done with my therapy. It was really cool to see how it's improved because that's why you liked the headset thing, right?

Melissa: Oh, right. I mean, the. The Hololens is just phenomenal. It was so cool. It's. If you don't know what it is there, the. Microsoft makes a headset. It's a Hololens, and it basically puts. It's like. I think it's augmented reality. It's what it's called. So, like, you are in the room that you're in and you can see it. So, it's different than virtual reality. And then it projects this, like, holographic Image into space. And so, you can, like, you know, see a Brock string in the room, but it's like a virtual Brock string. Anyways, they have a ton of different exercises. They go with the VTS4 they've done in office vision therapy. And they have, like, the VTS4 computer, the same exercises, but as a holograph in the real world. And it was, like, mind blowing for me. I definitely, like, at first, I wasn't really getting it. And I called Dr. Dan over, and I was like, hey, can you tell them what settings to do? And, like, I don't know, can you make this work? And so, he's like, okay, do this, do that, Change it to this exercise. So, he got it all set up, and then I started seeing it, the magic. And I was getting way more depth than I've ever gotten with any other activity. I could just feel my eyes, because my eyes point in. I could feel them relaxing out as I tried to look in the distance. And I was just really figuring out how to control the movements so much more quickly. Like, I'm always trying to . . .You know, I'm pointing them in or out or up, down. Like I'm trying to be in tune with where my eyes are. And it's always so challenging. But with that headset, it was like the feedback was so immediate. I was able to get it so much better. And then after I took it off is when it really got cool. That's when Dr. Sanet came over. He saw that I was like, whoa. Like, I was a little dizzy, and I'm like, just kind of like a little sensory overloaded.. And he put his arm around me, and he took me off to the side and had me, like, look out into the whole exhibit hall. And he was giving me little things. You know, I want you to look. Can you look straightforward and see this sign and see this letter? But then can you also see this person with the red hat? And can you see this booth over here in these chairs? And so, he was kind of helping me get my peripheral locked in. And then it just kind of snapped into place, and the stereo just all came in the space. I mean, it was like one of those amazing stereo moments. So super cool. I kept having those experiences all weekend. So, I'm like, that. Hololens. I want one. They're not cheap. $13,000. So, they told me they'd write me a prescription for one, though. He said, you can get one if you want. We'll sell you one. And I'm like, It's a little steep. Like, I barely got the $300 VR headset, so $13,000 is just not really in the budget.

Denise: Yeah. And. And you told me I needed to go try it, and so I did. And I think they just let me do it like they would any normal person that's not going to buy it. Right. Because I'm not a doctor. So, they put it on me. I saw the thing out in space, like, where you could, like, reach out and touch it, and then you could walk all the way around it and touch it and all of that. But that they didn't do all the cool stuff to me that they did to you because you're more fun.

Melissa: Well, and they were trying to convince Dr. Nielsen, so they knew that if they could show him how well it worked on his patient, he'd be more enticed to buy it. It did not work, unfortunately. They really wanted him to get it, but he did not. But, yeah, it was a really cool. I mean, it's just awesome technology. Like, I found that, like, at so many of the booths, it's like, okay, they've had these red and green activities forever, but now they just are coming up with new creative ways to use them. And I thought. Thought, wow, these people are so creative. They are constantly thinking of, how can we make this more engaging for kids? How can we make this more effective? And it's just. It's just beautiful. You know, you could just cry.

Denise: Yes. And, you know, it was. It was fun to have my doctor there and have him come up to the booth. And I was like, I would like a little extra thing to go on my aperture rule that people that don't know what that is. They're not going to understand what I'm talking about. But I only have one little set of cards, and you flip them, you have to fuse them together, and there were other sets of cards to put on it. I was like, I want that one, and I want that one, and I want that one. And. Well, actually, I had to scale it back to two, but the one. One of them that I picked was the randot.  And Dr. Davies said, well, that one's really hard. And I said, huh? I want it. Yeah, I can actually do it. I mean, on the easier levels, I can actually do it. And so that will give me another challenge and it'll be more interesting.

Melissa: Right. It gives you something to build towards. Yeah.

Denise: Because, I mean, everybody needs a challenge. Right? 

Melissa: Right. That's so cool. Yes. I was going to buy things on multiple occasions, but Every time I was like, I want this one. Dr. Dan would be like, I don't think that you should get that. Like, it would be something that was like too central and not peripheral enough. I tried. I talked to Bernell and the Emergent VT. They both kind of, you know, they have different tools and vision therapy exercises. And I said, I want a vectogram that's like, is this big, you know, huge. I want it to be the size of like a huge bouncy ball. Right. Because they are always saying do peripheral. But then they give me these small targets that are the size of, you know, a large orange instead. And I'm like, no, I want something that's really big that I could wrap my arms around and apparently would cost thousands. So.

Denise: Yeah, well, 

Melissa: I want all the expensive things.

Denise: the coolest for you as, as the expensive stuff. Absolutely. Right.

Melissa: I have very expensive taste

Denise: or just challenging eye. situation. Yeah.

Melissa: Right.

Denise: So, it's all good.

Melissa: It makes it more fun.

Denise: Yeah.

Melissa: So, who did you. Were there certain people that you met that just, you're never going to forget that were just so fun? What was, you know, with just like meeting people and getting to know people throughout the process?

Denise: Yes, well. And you shared your favorite person, right?

Melissa: Yes.

Denise: So, I might as well share mine.

Melissa: Yes.

Denise: Actually, it was really cool because the two-day class, part of the reason I decided to go to it was because it was Robert Sanet and Pilar Vergara, who I mentioned in one of my previous episodes that I had read her book. And so, I took the book with me, and I was determined I was gonna. Well, no, hers I didn't take with me I wanted to take it with me. I tried to buy it, and I had it as an e book. I went up to her after the class and I said, I tried really hard to buy your book as a physical copy so that I could bring it so you could sign it. And she's so sweet. And she said, oh, it's not available as a physical copy in the United States right now. I was like, oh, dang it. And. And then, then we just talked a little bit and went our separate ways. And then later she came up to me, and she said, come talk to me, I have something for you. And so. Well, she didn't say, I have something. She just said, come talk to me later. And so, I went and talked to her and she said, I brought one copy of that book with me and I didn't know who I was going to give it to and it's you. And she had already signed it to me, and then she gave it to me, and I was, like, so happy.

Melissa: That was so cool. She was so much fun, too. She was.

Denise: Yes.

Melissa: I love it. So, have you read it again?

Denise: No. But the. The good thing that actually happened out of that too is that I told her that I speak Spanish. My Spanish is not as good as it should be, but I'm. I've been working on it and. And her other book is only available in Spanish and. And it's in the fourth edition, and it hasn't ever been translated into English. And I said, well, I speak Spanish. I would. I would love to read it. Right. And she brought me that book too and gave me a copy that was signed of her book in Spanish. So, here's the one crossed and lazy eyes signed. So awesome. And this one is called “Tante Inteligencia, Tan Poco Rendimiento.”. And she told me that the. The reason that they hadn't translated it is there are some other books available in English that are similar. Oh. So, I'm looking through it, going well. I like this really well. The way it's not organized in the way it explains things. So, we may have to take a closer look at that issue.

Melissa: I was really surprised at how many of the different optometrists that I met that had written books. I didn't realize there were so many books out there that I haven't read yet. My list of books to buy and read is very long. I think it'll take me a couple years to get through it, but I'm gonna try.

Denise: Me too. Yeah, I ordered several over the course of this week. I actually, started putting them in my shopping cart on Amazon while we were there, even.

Melissa: Oh, good for you. I. I just have lists in my notes app, and I need to go and actually order. Try it. Too bad the libraries don't carry any vision therapy books.

Denise: I know. Well. But we're so blessed because in other countries, they just don't have the books that we have. Even the standard books like “Fixing My Gaze” are not available in every different language. So. Right. It's a problem that should be addressed. Of course. You know. Of course. Among a bunch of other problems in the vision therapy world. Right. Do you have any final words, Melissa, for this episode? What you want people to know about our experience and kind of where things are going, maybe for you? And with all of this, I think

Melissa: I was just very. I mean, a lot of it was what I expected it to be. You know, exhibit hall. I knew I was going to be excited about all of that. I knew I was going to be excited to learn, but I was surprised at how much I loved getting to know the different vision therapists and optometrists that I met. They're just so genuine. I mean, the more you learn, like, I kind of thought, oh, they're specialists, so they make more money and, you know, they're going to be more pompous. And it's not that. That's not true. It's like they chose the harder career path. They probably aren't making as much because they can't bill insurance. I mean, there's just so many things. But they chose it anyway because it's meaningful to them. You know, you were mentioning so many of them had eye problems and needed vision therapy, and that's what inspired them to go into this field. So, I just love, like, they were just genuine, amazing people that were so fun to be around. And I thought, I want to be with these people all the time. So, I am already, like, figuring out, like, okay, I am going to be a vision therapist, after all. I'm like, I'm gonna figure out how to get a job at my office and maybe work one day a week or something, just because it's such a cool profession, and I just find it amazing. So that was something that was really exciting to me to be a part of.

Denise: Yeah. I think that was one of my biggest takeaways also, just how much of a difference it makes to actually show up, be in the space with all the people, connect with them on a very personal level. I mean, I got to meet Kelin Kushion, who I did a podcast with way at the beginning. But to meet her in person was just awesome. You know, just con and connecting with people who I tried to get through the blockade that a lot of offices have up for, you know, people like me.

Melissa: Right.

Denise: Because, you know, they don't. They don't want to be not focused on their work. Right.

Melissa: Right.

Denise: So, I. Because I was able to show up and talk to them and talk to the office manager, meet the person. You know, there's going to be a lot of people that I'm going to be able to talk to on my podcast, because we got to go and meet them.

Melissa: You know, being there in person was amazing.

Just, yeah, it was so fun.

Denise: Yeah. So, thanks for inviting me or allowing me to go with you, I guess, because it was so cool that you got to. To receive that award for making vision therapy visible was just great.

Melissa: It was really fun. I was very flattered and just. It was exciting to go. So, thank you for coming with me so that I didn't have to be by myself.

Denise: It was my pleasure, really. It was amazing.

Melissa: Well, now we just have to figure out how to get in again next year and.

Denise: Right.

Melissa: We'll be all set.

Denise: I appreciate all the work you're doing. You deserved that “Making Vision Therapy Visible” award.

Melissa: Thank you.

Denise: Yeah, that's great.

Denise: Thank you for listening to the Healing Our Sight podcast today. To order Melissa's course Mastering Peripheral, go to learn.strabismussolutions.com and put in the code HEAL10 for 10% off that course. You're going to love it. Please join the Facebook group Healing our Sight to make comments and suggestions. And stay tuned for the next podcast. We have some great things coming.