Unlocking Financial Wellness for Women Entrepreneurs with Caitriona Ellis | EP242

Ready to empower your financial future? Join us as we look at the tools and knowledge you need to take charge of your finances, especially in times of crisis. Our special guest, Caitriona Ellis, founder of the Financial Wellness Academy, as a mother of three with a solid background in commerce and financial services, Caitriona's mission is to bridge the significant gap in financial education for women.

Discover the critical aspects of financial wellness tailored for businesswomen, yet valuable for everyone. We highlight the inspiring story of a woman who overcame domestic abuse to drive significant changes in the banking sector. This conversation delves into safety, security, emergency funds, retirement planning, and unique challenges faced by self-employed individuals. Practical advice includes defining personal financial goals and the strategic benefits of outsourcing business tasks to streamline operations.

Finally, we discuss the importance of diversifying income streams for financial stability. Caitriona shares personal anecdotes about managing multiple income sources, from mentoring accountancy students to running an Airbnb. They emphasise that seeking additional income avenues is a strategic move for reducing stress and maintaining security, not a sign of failure. Open conversations about financial wellness are crucial, breaking down negative emotions and taboos around money. Tune in for inspiring stories, practical advice, and a supportive dialogue aimed at fostering healthier financial attitudes across generations.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:40

You're listening to the Mindset in Action podcast, the place to be to grow and streamline your business. I'm your host, donna Eade. Let's jump into the show. Money talks, but credit has an echo, bob Thaves. Welcome back to the podcast. Everyone, I'm so glad to have you here today. You may hear a difference in my voice and that is because we're recording this. You know, a couple of weeks ago, when I wasn't feeling so great with my voice. So you've got, last week and the week before, two episodes that were recorded before I got ill, and now you've got one that's being recorded on the tail end of it. So I apologise, but it's all right, because Katrina's going to be doing all the talking today. I'm just going to be here absorbing all the goodness with you. So, katrina, welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much. Tell my listeners a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Speaker 2: 1:44

Well, so my name's Katrina Ellis, often pronounced Katriona because it's written in that funny Irish way. I'm originally from Ireland, but I've been living in the Isle of man for nearly nine years now. I am a mum to three amazing kiddies, who are 15, 13, 11, and I am self-employed, so I have a number of different companies. My most passionate business is Financial Wellness Academy, which is about empowering women with their money stuff. So often we find women take a backseat or totally hands-off role in this regard in their lives, and it's something I feel is a very dangerous thing to do, especially when life throws you a curveball and you've no idea what's going on in your money stuff. So I'm on a mission to empower and educate as many women as I can in this space, and something I got drawn into accidentally as often happens in life sometimes and it's something that I do with my whole heart, based on a lot of experience of financial challenges, so I'm very well equipped to talk to those. Unfortunately, or fortunately, so yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:56

And do you have a education in the financial area as well? Did you a qualified accountant? I remember that right, you did accountancy, not quite no, um, yeah, I did.

Speaker 2: 3:08

My degree was in commerce, uh, and I majored in management and marketing. I worked in the financial services industry then for over 10 years and retired out of that after after becoming a mum and um, whilst in that, I did a number of qualifications financial service diploma. I'm a qualified financial advisor and then more recently I qualified as a fellow in the National Association of Estate Agents More recently when I got into property in a bigger way. So lots of ticks on that front and it's something I live and breathe. I really enjoy numbers, not from an accountant's perspective, but more from my numbers, the numbers that are important to me and my family. Um, so, yeah, that's my, my background.

Speaker 2: 3:51

I don't operate in the regulated space, so I don't offer products and services. Um, more in the space of education and empowerment, because I feel that's really where there's a huge gap, um, in terms of our own upbringings. Um, largelygely, there's not many people who have those kinds of conversations with their caregivers, unfortunately, and it's largely not something that's discussed in school with our children. So we've got a huge knowledge gap around it, and I'm one of many women and people in the world addressing that because I think it's something that really it's a life skill that we all should have some level of knowledge on to be able to get the most out of our lives and to minimize the stress and anxiety that exists around that, unfortunately, yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:32

I completely agree and I think I the reason I sort of brought up your background there is because I think it's so interesting when you have somebody who has got the sort of academic knowledge to back up their personal journey. So I'll tell you. I'll tell you a little story. So I used to work for a bank, one of the well-known high street banks, and I was there for an entire month and I was actually fast-tracked. They wanted me to be somebody that sort of dealt with people in the queue so get me out from behind the counter. They could see promise in me and everything was going swimmingly well and I'd gone to Peterborough for a two day training and I actually got called back by my manager and they let me go because I had three things that popped up on my credit report and they said we can't have somebody advising people on their finances when you've got stuff on your credit report. Now it wasn't from my manager. The branch was actually really supportive of me and wanted to keep me, but it was head office that had kind of dictated this and I'd explained it away.

Speaker 1: 5:36

I mean, you know a little bit of backstory for me. I was a single mum who was on and off benefits and if you've been on and off benefits at any point in your life, you know the benefit system isn't very quick to implement things. So I would get into a little bit of debt there. I'd get myself sorted, I'd get myself a job, I'd go and start work. Then my benefits would stop and you know, all of that led to me being in a little bit of debt here and there with different things, and the three things that were on my report were all things that were in the past. Everything was good now and now I had a job that I could see a good career in. I could see me going far in it. They could see me going far in it. I thought I'm sorted and then they whipped it out from underneath me and I was back to square one and I was like how is anybody ever supposed to get on top when people are reacting like that?

Speaker 1: 6:25

So I like the fact that we now have this world where we don't have to just go to banks for this information. There are people out there that can provide independent information that's not skewed to certain products but is more focused on the people and what they need and their situation. And I'm just like I. Just I'm glad you exist, because you know that actually broke my heart, because I would always wanted to work for one of the other banks, actually, and I never quite got through their system of you know how they test people. I never really got through all their interview systems, but I'd got this one and I was like this is what I wanted to.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Because I love numbers too, this is what I want to do, this is going to be great, and then to have it taken away from me, I was just like gutted, gutted so. But I think it's important for people to have been through financial hardships when they're going to tell somebody you know this is what I think would be good, or this is why I do what I do, or you're doing that education bit. If you've never financially suffered in your life, how on earth can you empathize or understand where somebody who's in the sort of position I was in you know what they're going through and how they're trying to manage. So just a little story.

Speaker 2: 7:42

Yeah'm very relevant because I think you know who explains to that you. Decisions that you make in your earlier life will impact the outcome of certain parts of your path later down. Like nobody, the vast majority of people don't even know that unless you've actually been through it. So you know the impact of that. You know how long it takes for something like that to to um get rid of it, and sometimes people find themselves with records that are not even their fault. Sometimes it's total case of mistaken identity.

Speaker 2: 8:12

There's another position at the moment with an amazing young woman who is very vocal about the fact that she was in a domestic, abusive domestic position and at the time she was working for a credit a well-known high street bank also. But she decided this is more recent years to challenge it and she took it all the way to the top and her work is now being recognized. So some of the banks across the board and I think it's going as far as Europe wide she's behind some of the changes that they're bringing in to make changes to stuff like that. So people who, through no fault of their own, are doing the best they can with the circumstances. They're in often very difficult circumstances and they are tarnished from a credit perspective, going forward trying to get a mortgage, a card, whatever it is, because of something that happened in their past that was outside their control. And you know we need to have a little bit more understanding from our financial institutions about that. And I totally agree with you how on earth can you have any kind of meaningful conversation with a customer if you've never actually had any experience? So I mean it was their loss, you know, to have lost somebody who had that level of understanding, because how many of their customers come through the door?

Speaker 2: 9:26

Because that's what really gives me my edge, I find, with the level of experience that I've had with financial challenges, I can genuinely talk heart to heart with my own experience as to how difficult that is, and particularly the emotional bit, because the number stuff is relatively straightforward in most cases, but the emotion that goes behind it is really damn tough, and sometimes it's difficult to even put words to the shame that we feel around money, the embarrassment, the stupidity when we've made decisions and I'm speaking personally here that we think what the hell was I thinking? Why did I do that, why did I not see that? And we beat ourselves up. And there's so much emotion around that and you can't talk to that authentically unless you've been through it, so I think that was a massive loss on their part, but you know, I guess a huge life lesson for you on how to navigate it. So good for you, yeah absolutely so.

Speaker 1: 10:21

Let's jump in to the topic of financial wellness for our listeners. So we are talking about business women here. We also have some businessmen that listen to the podcast, so shout out to you guys. I think financial wellness is something that we all need to have an understanding of and I think, especially when we come into the business realm where we're self-employed, everything shifts a little bit. You know, we haven't got an, an employer, we haven't got somebody dealing with the tax for us, the national insurance, the pensions, all of that, it all falls on us and I think often things slip through the cracks because we just don't know what we don't know. So, even if we've got guys listening, this is completely relevant to you, although Katrina tends to work with women. I think it's all relevant. So, katrina, where do we even start with our financial wellness? What? What are the important starting points that we need to sort of consider?

Speaker 2: 11:15

For me, the single most important piece is understanding, first of all, what that even means to you, because often I use those words and people look at me blankly as well.

Speaker 2: 11:25

What exactly do you mean and what means? What financial wellness means to me may be very different to what it means to you For a large. For personally, and for the vast majority of women I work with. It means two simple words. It means safety and security, and whatever safety and security looks like for them, that's what it is. So it might look like having making sure I've got, they've got an emergency fund in place, making sure that they've got a little pot that covers all those ad hoc expenses that pop up throughout the year that when we don't have provision for them, they really can skew our monthly finances. It means that you've got something in place for your retirement. It means that if you've got children, that you've got some sort of provision for them, if that's something that you want to provide for. It means maybe for some people, they want to get rid of their mortgage. It means for other people actually getting a mortgage and having a home and stopping renting. So it's very individual and I think, the most important thing up front, when you're dipping your toe into this, is to actually understand well, what does this even look like for me? Because, for the vast majority of us, we career from one day to another and we never take some time out to actually sit down and think well, what do I want? Because? And when we don't do that, what I found is we end up somewhere entirely different to what we intended, and decisions along that path can be very difficult, Whereas when we take some time out and by time out I mean it could be as simple as 10, 15 minutes actually scribbling on a page, what with my ideal level of financial wellness what would get that involve? Um, so, it's not a case of, you know, scratching your head and spending days or hours and weeks on this. It's. It's simple, and that's what I encourage most people to do is to take some time out, even if you're on out walking the dog, if you're doing a little meditation, if you've got some down time in the office, whatever that looks like to you, and just getting clear on.

Speaker 2: 13:20

What does that mean to me? What would I like in place? You know, if you're thinking of it from a business perspective, would it be? Would it involve bringing more people on board, maybe outsourcing some of the tasks that you really don't like. So maybe some of that bookkeeping stuff that you get yourself in a tangle about.

Speaker 2: 13:36

Is it having some kind of virtual finance director on board, which now is a position available and something I see a number of people doing which brings great value to many businesses? It doesn't. It means that you don't need to have somebody on the books permanently. You can contract them for a few hours a month, a week, whatever it is you need, and you've got somebody qualified actually watching what's going on to give you a steer, somebody watching the targets that you've set and whether you land them or not. So it might be bringing some admin support in place. It might be getting a qualified bookkeeper accountant in place.

Speaker 2: 14:08

Whatever it is for your business, for you, it's just about taking the time out to give thought as to what that is, and when you have that clarity, I have found for myself and for clients is the path that unfurls from there on out is a lot easier to navigate because you know where you're going, you know what your your um due north is, your north star, etc. And you can navigate the bumps easier because you've got your eye on what, where it is, you're going for and yeah, life becomes a lot easier when it comes to money, and that's been my experience, so true and I think it's so important that we work out what it is that financial wellness means to us, and I think we've spoken a lot on this podcast about your why and the things that you do.

Speaker 1: 14:54

Why you do them? Because these and it is this intrinsic understanding of you as a human and what's important to you that is going to show you these answers, like it's all within us in that respect, not to get too woo, but you know, when it comes to financial wellness, for what's financial wellness to me, it's going to be completely different to what it is for you. It's going to be completely different to what it is for the listeners and I think the examples that you gave were very on point, especially for women. I think there is that common thread of the safety and security and I know for me, given my history, that is a big one for me is, you know, when I started my last job for me, that gave me this sense of security. I was like I was an independent woman. I didn't have to rely on anybody else, I wasn't relying on the government for help, I was doing it all myself and I got myself in a really good position.

Speaker 1: 15:52

And one of the books I always, always rave about when it comes to money is Ramit Sethi's book I Will Teach you To Be Rich. I read that book in 2014. I got myself out of five grand's worth of debt. I bought the first car. That was my choice of car. I set a budget. I knew how much I wanted to borrow. I knew how quickly I wanted to pay it off. I did it all myself and I tell you something it just the empowerment that I got from being able to do that and being able to look after my daughter and do all the things that I wanted to do, was amazing. And so when you get it right, it just, it just works. And it's so amazing to have that.

Speaker 1: 16:31

And I was very clear with my intentions and you know, we have to educate ourselves because I think it's one of those things where you don't know the things that you don't know. And for me, I just didn't really have. I'd always kind of budgeted and stuff and I'd been through debt management when my daughter was very, very young and all of that jazz. So they talked about budgets and stuff, but when it comes to reality, of you actually implementing things with your money, going forward, like looking ahead, whereas I was like reactive there, I had a debt I needed to pay off. So we were creating a budget so I could pay off my debt. This was creating a budget so that I could save and plan and make a future, and it was just something different in doing it that way, and I think we need to take on that role of being sponges when it comes to financial wellness.

Speaker 1: 17:21

I think it's something that we don't talk enough about. So I'm really glad we're having this conversation. So, as business owners, it can be really difficult to kind of balance that cash flow, especially in the beginning days where you're not really sure where the money's coming from. And that's something again, that that employee mindset versus being the business owner with the employee. You know you go to work 40 hours a week, you get a set amount of money, you can go to work 40 hours a week for a business owner and you could come out with nothing at the end of the week. So what should we look be looking at when we're looking at our income, so that we don't get ourselves into the shit yeah, it's um, and you know what it's.

Speaker 2: 17:58

It's a conversation I've had several times in the last few weeks and it's something I started to realize myself and it about to me and when I mooted first I was like, oh, I'm not sure you want to say that. And then I thought actually I think I really should say that. And it's about when you're starting out in business and even when you're not starting out, even when you're pretty well established, it can be really hairy and scary and it's like a white knuckle ride at times. And the variability in income is scary. Even if you've got an emergency pot aside or you've got a pot that you know is going to cover your annual expenses and you know you're going to be OK, you have no certainty in in self-employment as to when that next income is going to land. And something that I've been playing with myself, um, for the last couple of years because of that huge variability just it really freaked me out was diversifying and diversifying an income. So I'm big, big um supporter of diversification when it comes to assets and I've done that for a long time and it's always served me well, and especially when the proverbial hits. And then I started to realize hang on a second if you did the same, applied the same concept to your business and had different streams of income and by different streams of income I mean both within your business so that if you say are a service provider and you're providing a service to a particular client, I would suggest looking at having different products and services that spread to a wider net of people, so that you have different things, because something might be flavor of the month and go, you know amazing, great guns, and then it drops right off, so that if you have different offerings to different clients, that's one way, but separate from that is I think there's a huge case to be made in self-employment with the to counteract the variability in income, for having that source of income that is steady, that allows you to put your oxygen mask on and allows you to show up in your business that you're really passionate about in a way that doesn't bring lack and scarcity and fear to it.

Speaker 2: 20:06

And I've come to this conclusion because I've experienced it myself. So I am running financial wellness academy. The variability in income is absolutely massive. Sometimes there's more going out than there's coming in, and I think it's really important to be honest and open about this and I came across that first and I thought I'm not sure you want to share that and I thought, well, no, I really need to share this. And then that got me thinking over the last while OK, well, what do you do to? What options are available to you to create an income that is regular? So I looked at OK, well, what's my, my skill set, what else can I turn my hand to? And, most importantly, most valuably, what I did was I asked, in my immediate circle of contacts, individuals who I I knew were well connected, who could potentially have options for me that would give me that, and, uh, one option that came out. Several things emerged and the one that has been the.

Speaker 2: 20:56

The work that has worked best is mentoring accountancy students. So I've got a background, I've got five years of accountancy. I didn't qualify as an accountant, I don't need to for this role and I support and mentor those students. Now I spent my morning with three different students and it's a joy to do. It's not my passion, but I really enjoy it. It pays me a regular income and, based on the of students I have, and it allows me to know month to month that I've got X amount coming in and things will be OK, and the more I diversify. That. And also I mentioned I live in the Allemagne, so we've got TT on at the moment, which is a huge internationally known bike race, and I've got an Airbnb. So part of my diversification was using some of the income that I have to refurbish a garage and a storeroom that was redundant, add value to my house and also create a way to generate income and rent that out. So that's another way of doing it.

Speaker 2: 21:52

I didn't do those all overnight, as I was thinking about what financial wellness meant for me. Diversification of income was part of that because I thought putting all my eggs in one basket even if it's an amazing basket that can get upturned at any point and the better diversified I am in income, the better that that makes me feel. So I've got a number of little things like that that I do, but I did come to that with. I tussled with a lot of emotions around that because I thought you know how can I teach financial wellness if I am not sure on a daily basis? But I'm not.

Speaker 2: 22:25

I don't purport to be an amazing business person. I'm really good at financial wellness, but when it comes to running a business. It's a whole different skill set and it's one that can take some time, especially when you're one man bound to, to really get the feel for time, especially when you're one man bound to um to really get the feel for. But it allows me putting my having those streams of income allows me to have my oxygen mask on and to show up to financial wellness, academy work with a sense of abundance and a sense of I'm okay and I'm living.

Speaker 2: 22:52

What I'm teaching what I'm living, um, because there's nothing worse than somebody saying, oh yeah, no, everything it's all rosy, no issues, whatever. I'm no, there are issues and I have to face them as they arise and you know that's how we roll. So I think that's something really important to talk to people about. Is you're not a failure at your business if you have to look elsewhere. But I do think when you go to do that, you put boundaries in place to say you know I'm going to give it 10 hours a week and the rest of the time I'm going to give to you know what I'm really passionate about. That, to me, is not failure. That to me, is about survival and, personally, giving me that feeling of safety and security.

Speaker 2: 23:27

So I think we need to start having that conversation more and more, and I've had it numerous times in the last few weeks and it has really opened my eyes as to the number of people who feel similarly but feel that actually doing that means they failed.

Speaker 2: 23:41

And I'm thinking absolutely no, no, it doesn't. It means you show up to your business. You're passionate about leaving scarcity and lack out of the equation, because when you're trying to run a business and you have that feeling running the show underneath, go, pick that up and that comes across and then that affects your sales if you're coming from that place. And I've experienced this myself personally and I've had a whole different experience when I've taken care of that and then shown up to it in a way that goes yeah, ok, you know, this is the way it is. I'm so passionate about what I do, what I teach, what I educate on, but I'm doing it in a way that works for me and takes my safety and security boxes. So I think that that's one that is worth giving some thought about for anybody listening in who feels that they may be in that category where there's more coming out and it's going in and it's a source of stress.

Speaker 1: 24:31

Yeah, I completely agree and I think what you said there is so, so important, and so I'm going to say it again you are not a failure in your business if you have to diversify your income streams. And if you are an OG listener to this podcast, you know I mean OG, ie. You remember when it was called the Society of Professional Wedding Vendors podcast Back then, when we were in an absolute dire situation with the wedding industry during COVID, one of the things that I spoke about a lot was diversifying your income stream so that we never ended up in that place again where we were. You know, our entire financial thing was cut off. And I think it's important because I know that there are still wedding vendors that listen to this show and, you know, just business owners in general. Just because COVID is over technically like the big, you know stuff is over it doesn't mean that something like that won't happen again, whether that's on a global scale or on a personal scale. Something happens that you have to pause your business or something happens, you know, you just don't know what's going to happen. So, by having that, diversification that is outside your business as well as diversification within your business is really, really important for that balance, for us to be able to to breathe.

Speaker 1: 25:55

And I really want to sort of say thank you to you, katrina, because we had a conversation and I was trying I've just been trying to find when we actually first spoke and I think I think it was on the 2nd of May. I'm not sure I can't find a one-to-one where it sort of says your name, but we had a conversation and I was talking to you about being in that situation where I was struggling with the, you know, lack of income generation coming in on a consistent basis and it was worrying me. And we had this conversation about diversifying and through that it's led to a few conversations where things are looking promising. So I want to thank you for that and I want to say to people it works and you know, just because you're doing something for somebody else doesn't make your business any less important, doesn't make it that you're failing in any way. It's protecting yourself for those lean times and, by having something that can be consistent outside of your business, actually relieves some of that stress and pressure which allows you to come at your business from a more serving perspective rather than that desperation which I think we don't always feel that it's showing and it doesn't always show, but it is an internal thing.

Speaker 1: 27:17

When you know that, oh my God, I haven't got anything coming in this month, what am I going to do? It kind of does seep out, even if you don't realize it. It's a completely unconscious, subliminal thing, I think. But when you can come at it from it doesn't matter, because I've got this stable income, I've got these other pots where I'm getting money in from here, there and everywhere. So what happens right here isn't the be all and end all. You can come at it from that place of passion and serving the thing that you want to be doing. So I really appreciate that viewpoint and I think it's really important to talk about it, to talk about it. So, as we're kind of rounding up now, I want to look at what are the top three things that you wish that business owners understood about financial wellness.

Speaker 2: 28:10

I wish they understood first of all, go back to my first point what it is, what it means for them. Um, because when I, when they, when it's asked of me, I show a picture, and to me it's a picture that is, um, of the end of the road where I live. It's beautiful, the harbour, um, we live by the sea and that is almost the epitome of financial wellness to me. It means my kids and I can walk to the beach and that encompasses it, and I have the freedom with my work to do that on whatever day I like. I decide what goes in my diary. So I think what financial wellness looks like, feels like, what involves for you. What are the other things that I wish?

Speaker 2: 28:49

I wish that we could just almost vacuum pack the emotions, the negative emotions, around money and how taboo it can be, and just talk about anything, because we have this concept in the east of the rent tent and when a woman is menstruating, she comes into that tent and she is nourished and nurtured and looked after, and I think we need the equivalent of a money tent where we go when we've got stuff going on and we just talk it out, and because you know when you share a problem, especially amongst women there is such. There's an inner thing, a piece for every woman you want to connect, you want to support, you want to nurture. It's just that thing that's inbuilt in you. And if more of us shared what's going on, because I know earlier this year when I was really struggling at a massive financial loss, it was naming what was going on, asking for help. Sometimes it wasn't even asking, it was just saying what was going on and the help just showed up. It took so much of the weight off my shoulders and we need to bring more conversation around this, because so many of us are struggling right now and the struggle becomes so much easier to bear when we put a name to it. So, just, you know, take the take the um cloak and dagger off the shame, the embarrassment, the stupidity, whatever. It is those emotions that hold so much power over us sometimes.

Speaker 2: 30:13

And then I think the last thing really, I suppose, is I wish that we'd have more of these conversations with other generations, because without us having these kind of conversations with our you know, the younger people in our lives, whether they're our own kids or others, nothing's going to change. We're going to continue this through the generations and we will continue to put a lid on stuff that's difficult and it's a bit like the whole you know Me Too movement, mental health etc. Anything that we want to take stigma away from, we need to start discussing openly, and people still are very uncomfortable about discussing money matters. So we can't really enact any major change until we start living it ourselves and then having those conversations openly with others, especially the younger people in our lives, because our younger people don't often have the hangups we have, and I see this with my kids.

Speaker 2: 31:09

It was an unintentional outcome of me working on this myself. I hear them having having conversations with their friends going is it a need or is it a want? And you know, if it's a, if it's a need, maybe your parents might sort, and if it's a want, well, you know, here's some ideas as to how you can generate the cash and I'm like, wow, they're just absorbing what the conversations we have and then they're playing it forward. I'm like, yes, this is how you know things change and I'm sure that probably some parents swearing me um because of the questions that I've pushed forward. But, like, I see the difference that's making with my children and they don't have the hang-ups I had, um. So I think that's really important to start changing the conversations and have those conversations openly around the table in our homes with our friends, with our loved ones, and start changing the needle on this, because otherwise nothing's going to change. We're just going to keep spinning the wheels in it awesome, that's so good.

Speaker 1: 32:00

I'm oh just so much goodness in that and I completely agree with having the conversations about it.

Speaker 1: 32:05

I think it is something that is still very taboo and it needs to not be as taboo because you know, know, if I had, you know, and we didn't know each other really before that conversation that we had, we'd met on a networking meeting, we had a one to one, and there I was telling you my financial issues, like you know, this sort of unheard of, but if I hadn't have said that, you wouldn't have been able to come back to me with some ideas and I wouldn't be able to be in a completely different situation right now, feeling a lot calmer and a lot more, you know, okay with where I am than I was then.

Speaker 1: 32:41

I mean, I don't know how I would have felt. You know this is nearly a month later and you know there's not a lot that's particularly changed within my business that I could sort of see a light at the end of the tunnel or anything. So. So if I hadn't have been had that conversation and been open with you, then I wouldn't have been able to put these other things in place that have kind of lightened the load a little bit. So I think that is a real testament it's that simple, but there's not this.

Speaker 2: 33:06

You know a lot of people that and that was one thing that I mentioned earlier when you were making a point is that there's so much out there there's a bit of snobbery around it. I think that it's oh, it's so complex and we really need somebody super qualified at actuarial levels to figure this out for us. And I had a conversation as recently as yesterday about this and I'm like, no, a lot of this. Yes, there are, you know, there can be more complex points to consider, like taxation and all that kind of stuff, but to get some of the really basic pieces in place. Often it's just a conversation, like you and I had, and having the courage to speak it and, as the listener, having making sure there's no judgment around it, because when we start judging others on their money stuff, the position that they're in, then we we lose that trust. So we have to um come to it from a place of look, we've, we've all been there, especially if you've been there, you know, with with um, with knobs on, like I have in terms of the financial challenges, you bring understanding to it and if I've never walked in your shoes, I cannot for a second um, put any judgment behind anything that you share or anybody shares. So we have to bring that listening ear. If we've got family or friends who are coming to us with these kind of challenges, we can't. We have to leave judgment outside the door and just bring our best supportive self to the, and sometimes all that person needs who's struggling is just an ear and sometime an idea pops.

Speaker 2: 34:31

But the the most important point I'm trying to make here is that this is not rocket science, a lot of it. And we have within us absolutely the capability ourselves and with our circle, to resolve this. And and like there is merit in saying that old saying a problem shared is a problem half. Because it is like it might not have been me who might have been able to join the dots for you, but it was somebody else I could connect you with who could potentially give you something that would solve a big part of that problem for you. And had you not shared it and the idea dropped in for me, you know who knows where I would be.

Speaker 2: 35:03

And that conversation for me was the first time I had with you.

Speaker 2: 35:06

I didn't want to say it was with you for confidentiality reasons, but I've had that conversation many, many times times since, and I kind of think we don't talk about it, and I knew when I shared it with you, I did feel some of that shame and I thought, seriously, katrina, you have to get over this, because you know you can't talk to it unless you get over it yourself and and because of our conversation I've said that many times since and I really think there's something in that that we need to start shining.

Speaker 2: 35:32

And I've actually suggested to a large community I'm in that we do a webinar on it because there are too many people suffering on this thing, thinking that they're failing because they're not making it or they don't have like five figure, six figure months, whatever, and they think they're they're failing. So you know, I think it's really important for mental health and it's the number one reason mental health is financial challenges. So if we don't talk about this, then that's going to continue to cause us issues. How many suicides are because of money reasons? Like? We have to start um changing our conversation around this absolutely.

Speaker 1: 36:03

it is so, so important. And just that what you said there about you know like taking the shame away from it and not judging, because you haven't been in somebody else's shoes so you can't possibly understand how they got to where they are. So, just taking it that this is where they are, what can I do to help? Is there anything I can do to help is a much better way of looking at it than thinking, gosh, well, I would never have done that because you just don't know what you would have done in that situation. So really fantastic conversation. Absolutely loved having you on the show to talk about this. Where can people find out more about you? Where can they connect with you? Where do you hang?

Speaker 2: 36:44

out For business owners. I'm on LinkedIn so you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Katrina Ellis, my website is financialwellnessacademycouk. I'm on YouTube. Financial Wellness Academy has a weekly vlog, so I do little short snippets on various topics so you can connect with me on any of those avenues. And if you want to have a complimentary financial wellness clarity call, just drop me a message on any of those platforms and we can set that up and have a non-judgmental, open, honest chat brilliant.

Speaker 1: 37:14

I shall put all those links in the show notes for you guys now before we hop off. Um, I do have my little speed round that doesn't end up being so speedy if I get my voice involved in it, but I'll try not to, because you know I'm trying to protect the voice right now, so maybe it'll go a bit quicker. I've got a few questions that I'd like to ask you, if that's all right. So what is the book that has made the biggest impact on your life so far?

Speaker 2: 37:40

oh, um, most recently I would say it's Untamed by Glennon Doyle.

Speaker 1: 37:46

I have got that one on my list to read, so awesome. Um, what is your favorite podcast to listen to?

Speaker 2: 37:54

Stephen Bartlett at the moment, because my 15 year old has introduced me to him and he keeps telling me nuggets and I'm like, yeah, that young man has speaks a lot of sense, so I really love him yeah, he does, and uh, I'm halfway through reading his book as well, so that's a good one too, and actually, I'd add, I did Brenny Brown as well, actually, because, speaking of shame, she's definitely one to follow on that. Her podcast is amazing on that yeah, she's fab, awesome.

Speaker 1: 38:21

And what's your go-to snack when you're in a hurry?

Speaker 2: 38:24

oh, go-to snack. It's probably um pot of hummus and pile of chopped veggies. If I'm doing trying to be good, um, if I'm, it's probably a bar of dark chocolate if I'm not feeling so virtuous.

Speaker 1: 38:41

I love that. I love that. You see, and there's the difference in people, because I have gone from drink drinking eating milk chocolate because I love chocolate. Like I grew up, my dad used to work for Mars. He used to bring bags of the stuff home. So I am a chocoholic and it has taken me 40 years to wean myself off milk chocolate and go to dark chocolate. So I feel like having dark chocolate is very much different people.

Speaker 2: 39:07

I still eat milk chocolate, but yeah the other one satisfies me better. Yeah awesome.

Speaker 1: 39:14

And then, lastly, what is your ultimate me time thing to do?

Speaker 2: 39:19

oh, it's probably a sea swim. Um, yeah, a sea swim, although I did binge on Bridgerton, um yeah, the last couple of nights. So, depending on what mood I'm in, again, probably virtuous would be sea swim. Um, not so virtuous. Probably vegetate on the couch with some some bridgeton or something.

Speaker 1: 39:38

I love that and I'm totally jealous of your proximity to the sea. It's been something that's really been playing on my mind recently, so very jealous of that. Okay, awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It has been fantastic conversation. I hope you have taken some nuggets away, guys. I'll be back next week with another episode and, yeah, if you missed our Monday episode, our Mini Mindset Monday episode, then go back and have a listen for more of us together. So I'll see you in the next one. Bye for now.