Karli Taylor, PhD, is an award winning fitness educator and professional development speaker. Karli, the creator of BarreFlow, has authored more than 10 other accredited fitness courses. As an eating disorder survivor, she has recently become a strong and outspoken advocate for eating disorder awareness within wellness spaces.
Karli, with nearly three decades of experience, courageously shares her personal journey through an eating disorder and how it shaped her mission in the fitness world. We explore the often-overlooked prevalence of eating disorders among fitness clients and professionals and the critical need for mindful communication. Karli provides eye-opening examples of how even well-meaning comments can significantly impact clients' self-perception and mental well-being.
Join us for a crucial conversation aimed at fostering a healthier, more inclusive fitness industry.
Karli Taylor, PhD, is an award winning fitness educator and professional development speaker. Karli, the creator of BarreFlow, has authored more than 10 other accredited fitness courses. As an eating disorder survivor, she has recently become a strong and outspoken advocate for eating disorder awareness within wellness spaces.
Karli, with nearly three decades of experience, courageously shares her personal journey through an eating disorder and how it shaped her mission in the fitness world. We explore the often-overlooked prevalence of eating disorders among fitness clients and professionals and the critical need for mindful communication. Karli provides eye-opening examples of how even well-meaning comments can significantly impact clients' self-perception and mental well-being.
Join us for a crucial conversation aimed at fostering a healthier, more inclusive fitness industry.
Welcome to Ella Go. My name is Lisa. Join me on the journey in having real raw and uncomfortable discussions about fitness, health and everything in between, because, let's be honest, this journey would suck if we don't get our shit together. Welcome back, everyone to the Elego Podcast. My name is Lisa. I am your host, so today's guest is Carly Taylor. Carly, welcome.
Speaker 1:
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:
So I met Carly at an empowerment conference and actually I heard her story and I was just listening to how she took what she has experienced and how she's given back to the fitness industry. And it's almost a little taboo what Carly is doing, but you'll know why as we go along with this conversation. So, carly, obviously when we spoke I was like I have to have you on the podcast.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I don't know if the fitness industry would really think that I was giving back at this point. Um, yeah, I've been in the fitness industry for 25 to almost 30 years, I guess. Uh, yeah, right, I've been teaching group exercise, personal training, but I'm a master trainer, so I've written certifications. I travel all over the world and trade shows teaching other people to be personal trainers and group exercise instructors, but the big piece of me is I'm an eating disorder survivor and over the years I noticed that there were so many people in my industry that were dealing with the same type of things not just the students and clients, but the professionals, the trainers, the instructors and nobody talks about it. And now I'm talking about it.
Speaker 2:
So, yes, you're definitely talking about it. So let's take a step back here. When you say those things, you had a history of eating disorder and then you're in the fitness industry, carly. How does that happen?
Speaker 1:
How does that happen?
Speaker 1:
I guess when I started my recovery, I knew that I needed to be more healthy, so I started to really learn a lot about fitness and wellness and diet and nutrition.
Speaker 1:
If I'm being honest which I promised that I will be from that point on, when I realized what I was doing, I wasn't doing it for the right reasons.
Speaker 1:
I was probably learning things about fitness and wellness so I could manipulate the system the way I had been for a long time. But the further I got into it, the more I realized that I might be able to use what I went through to help other people, and if I could do that, then that makes it worth it in a way. So when I started learning a lot, I started sharing a lot, just talking to people in general, and I realized that they were listening to me and I noticed that the more I talked about it, the better I felt and it just kind of snowballed. I started as a personal trainer and a spinning instructor while I was in college and I continued to do that all the way through grad school and then eventually decided that I didn't want to do what I had thought I always wanted to do and what I had gone to school for. But I wanted to be in the fitness industry and I've never turned back.
Speaker 2:
So let me ask you this you mentioned how you are like taking this experience and then educating. A lot of the listeners are like okay, what is she educating? So what exactly are you talking about, Besides the fact that you're talking about your own story?
Speaker 1:
we thought it looked for so long, like we always had, this image of a person with an eating disorder was, well, I don't know, kind of like me, right, a white, thin, middle-class, straight, cis female. And that's a lie. There's so many eating disorders in so many ways that they present themselves. So, to really educate people, that you have no idea what the person in front of you is going through with their bodies, with their eating, with their exercise, all of that. And then the second part is talking to fitness professionals, people who teach group classes, who train clients, who coach people and trying to help them understand the impact of their words on their clients and on the way their clients see their bodies and themselves.
Speaker 2:
I follow you and I see your stories on Instagram and some of the clips of you having a discussion about this and even in the way yoga instructors talk a certain way.
Speaker 1:
So give that example, because when you said that to me, I was like oh my God, I didn't even realize that Yoga instructors are the worst, and I can say that because I am a yoga instructor and I teach yoga instructors, so it's really self-deprecation.
Speaker 1:
But when we learn we can do better. Right, we have to understand the things that we're doing and admit that. Yeah, we probably shouldn't have said these things. Something as simple as telling someone they're going to hold something for one breath and then starting to tell a story and keeping them for five or six breaths.
Speaker 1:
We're lying to them, we're breaking that trust that we have and, as simple and as silly as that might seem, there's a huge power dynamic between an instructor and a student and as soon as we cross that line and start to lie to them, we're abusing that power and, whether or not the student realizes it in the moment, they feel that dynamic shift and that's a big thing. And then just talking about people's bodies, so you know saying something like in a seated forward fold, so when you're sitting down with your legs stretched out in front of you and you're reaching out towards your feet, I have heard numerous instructors say something like move the junk out of your trunk or move the fleshy parts to the side. And for some people that might not impact them, but for someone who's very self-conscious about their body, instantly that's all they can think about.
Speaker 2:
It's interesting that, even though you know, you go through the, you know if you want to become a personal trainer, you go through the training and you learn the body. And I noticed that they're talking a little bit about the psychology of training. But yeah, it is very. It literally is a blip. It's such a blip but they don't. They're not teaching them how to talk to people.
Speaker 1:
No, not at all, and really it goes beyond personal training in the fitness industry. But I'm just trying to attack that little small piece of how we communicate but no, nobody talks about that. The behavioral modification part of it and it's huge. I feel like the psychology part is bigger than the physical part, Because if you can't get your brain on track, then you're definitely not going to get your body on track. Your brain comes first 100%, 100%.
Speaker 2:
So do you feel like there is some responsibility or accountability for those in the fitness profession when dealing with people who have an eating disorder, or just in the way they talk to people?
Speaker 1:
I think there's a huge responsibility. I think that every single person is somewhere on a spectrum of disordered eating. There's intuitive eating on one end and classified eating disorders on the other end, and I really feel that most of us fall somewhere on the spectrum and, as a personal trainer, fitness professional, we have the ability to push someone one way or the other on the spectrum at any point in time, and that's that should weigh on us. It should weigh on us, but I don't think that it does, even with something.
Speaker 1:
When someone comes into you, if you're a coach or a trainer and someone comes in and says I ate a huge meal last night and I need to burn it off, sometimes I'm going to say, more often than not, an instructor or a coach will be like all right, let's go, or I got you. I know how you feel. I do the same thing. How about did you enjoy that meal? Great, we're going to do the exact workout that we had planned for today, and you might actually feel stronger today, having taken in excess calories last night, who knows?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, it's a game changer. You know what you're talking about. Is it? Can I ask you this Do you get resistance from some people? Oh God, okay, go ahead, tell me.
Speaker 1:
I get a lot of resistance. You know I'm being too sensitive the whole snowflake thing like I just need to grow a set. No pain, no gain, all of this stuff that people are weak and they just need to toughen up. When people say things like that, all it says to me is they haven't dealt with their own stuff and they don't want to deal with their own stuff. And this is just easier. It's easier to be that way. It's harder to turn the lens around and look in the mirror and say, oh, I've said some things I shouldn't have said. I've probably hurt some people with the things that I've said. Even though my intentions were pure, even though I intended to help them, I probably did some harm and I need to do better. I always say if I could go back 20 years and give my original clients their money back, I totally would. But that takes a lot to look at yourself and say I screwed up.
Speaker 2:
The ego, oh the ego.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I can only imagine how. First of all, I'm sure when you have this discussion it's like a deer in headlights, Like what is she talking about? But God, I got to say it is a power. There is an imbalance of power, first of all, okay, and if you're in the fitness industry trainer, coach, whatever and the mindset is definitely the critical part, and when you hear them say coaches and trainers and whatnot, you know I really want this person to succeed, Like I want them to reach their goals. Well, if you really want to have them to reach their goals, then you need to start working on the way you talk to them and their mindset, and not so much focus on the other things, because what happens, Carly, you know what happens? They come back, they go, they fall off and they come back because nobody freaking worked on their damn mindset.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and they get frustrated, they feel defeated. People come to us as fit pros to help them feel better than they do, to feel empowered, to feel like they have some agency over their body, not to feel like a failure, not to feel disappointed, not to feel defeated. And that's what ends up happening and that will just slide them further down the spectrum in the wrong direction.
Speaker 2:
So let me ask you for a fitness professional. Let's say they're listening to this and they're like, oh my God, I didn't even realize this and I want to be better. So what are some of the things I mean? Is there anything out there for them to not only just listen to you and get that aha moment like holy shit, I've been messing up here or been talking in not the best way? What else is out there for that person to level up, so that they can learn how to speak to people?
Speaker 1:
There's not a lot. There's not a lot out there right now and, trust me, I'm working on a whole bunch of things. So there are resources, there's not a lot of resources. But what I will say is, when you're about to say something, take a step back, think about is it helpful and is it kind, and that's a really good start. And then, past that, are you just talking about the physical, and what I mean by that is, when someone comes in personal training, what's the first thing that a trainer will ask a client, a potential client? First thing, they ask how much weight do you want to lose? Or what's your goal weight? How about what's your goal Period? It's not assuming that people are coming to you because they want to change their appearance, because as soon as you assume that they want to change their appearance, you're assuming that they're unhappy with their appearance and you're projecting your own bullshit onto them.
Speaker 2:
Carly, you just dropped the mic right there, Girl you just dropped it.
Speaker 1:
It's not a stand, or I would drop it for you.
Speaker 2:
Oh my God, when you just said that. Can you just repeat that one more time, because I literally got the chills.
Speaker 1:
You can't assume that their goal is to lose weight or to change their appearance, because when you're assuming that they want to change your appearance, you're assuming that they are not happy with their appearance, which is honestly, underlyingly saying that you're not happy with their appearance.
Speaker 2:
Yes, oh, my God, that's the narrative, right, oh?
Speaker 1:
my God.
Speaker 2:
That is definitely a golden nugget right there. So, for someone who is a client, okay and how would you like, what are some things that you can tell them on how to talk to their trainer and how to have that discussion? And should they like, should they say hey, I don't really like the way you just said that.
Speaker 1:
They absolutely should. They need to feel comfortable in the space. Our first basic need is safety, and if we don't feel safe then we will never achieve our goals, even if that goal is to lose weight right, we might achieve it in the moment, largely because we want to make our trainer proud how screwed up is that? But then we'll go back to our own lives and go back to where we were because we didn't feel safe there. So we're not going to stay there. But yeah, and it's hard.
Speaker 1:
I don't expect clients to be able to do it easily. It is hard because of that power dynamic but taking agency over your own body, your own life, and saying please don't talk to me that way, please don't talk about weight with me. I do not want you to weigh me, please do not measure me. My goals are not weight related. I have a trainer. I'm a trainer who has a trainer and it took me a very long time to find someone that I trusted. And my first session with this trainer I said I will not be weighed, I will not be measured, I will not discuss my diet.
Speaker 2:
Wow, period, wow Period. Yeah, it's the same thing where they're saying, even like I have a daughter, and they're saying that, well, first of all, why do they have to weigh her every time we go to the doctor? What are we doing here and why and I know her, she looks to see that number and I know what it's doing to her head because she has shared it to me. So I know what it's doing to her head because she has shared it to me. So I have to often say I don't need to weigh her, we're here for a back problem.
Speaker 1:
Right. If there's an issue and someone's sickly, they're losing weight quickly. There's some malnutrition problem that you're trying to figure out. Absolutely put that kid on a scale. They're not growing, it's something like that. That's actually weight related, but they go in for a cold and they throw them on a scale and one of the things is why do we pay so much? Attention to weight Because it's easy to measure. Hmm, why is BMI the gold standard? Because it's simple to calculate period.
Speaker 2:
BMI, the gold standard, because it's simple to calculate period. How should a trainer or coach handle a situation where they have a suspicion that this person has an eating disorder? What is the responsibility of that coach? Oh wait, let me take a step back. Are they responsible?
Speaker 1:
Yes and no, as a personal trainer, a group X instructor, a coach. We are not psychologists, we're not therapists, we're not psychiatrists and we're not medical doctors most of us. It is not our responsibility to diagnose or treat, but it is our responsibility to be conscious of it and not to make things worse. So if someone has an exercise addiction, if they have an eating disorder and they're overexercising and they're unsafe, if they're not taking in enough calories to perform the tasks that we're asking them to perform and we continue to ask, that is our responsibility, so we can simply address things like that. You seem to be a bit tired today. Have you eaten enough? I feel like your energy level isn't where it needs to be. Did you skip a meal today? Feel like your energy level isn't where it needs to be. Did you skip a meal today? Are you hydrated?
Speaker 1:
If you find that they have a tendency to talk poorly about themselves a lot or they're bashing themselves a lot, bring it up. Is everything okay? I've noticed that you're really putting yourself down a lot lately. Do you have someone you can talk to lately? Do you have someone you can talk to, making it known that you notice, that you see them and that you care consistently. How are you? What's going on? Do you need to talk about anything? Do you have a therapist? Is there a team that can help you? Not saying what's going on? I'm going to help you because we're not qualified to do that, but first making sure they're seen and then, if it's that bad that you really notice someone's losing a ton of weight listen, I don't know what's going on with you. I don't know if there's something that you want to talk about, something going on with your health, but I have noticed this. Here are some resources that you might want to look into.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
It's not our job to diagnose. It's not our job to say I think you have an eating disorder, because what that's going to do is either send someone into a spiral or tell them that they need to lie to us, because people with eating disorders and I say this because I am one we become master manipulators. We're able to lie about it and hide it and keep it from people, and that makes it worse.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and I'm thinking, you know, as you're talking, like, let's say, this person says to them like look, I have a history of an eating disorder. Like what would they do? Like I mean you're saying there's not a lot of resources out there, I'm like what the hell am I going to? How am I going to talk to this client?
Speaker 1:
right, but try not to focus on the way their body looks and don't talk about food. What I would say to them is great, do you still have a therapist and are you working with a nutritionist? If they say no to either one of those things, I would say I think that if you're starting an exercise program, you might need to have more people on your team than just me. These are some nutritionists that I would recommend. Could you go back to your old therapist? Did you have a good reputation or a good relationship with your therapist? Otherwise, here are a few therapists locally or online, that I recommend that deal with these issues, Not because I think that you're in a bad spot now, but when you do start to exercise. That could be triggering. So I would like you to put a team in place. They don't have to do it, but you put it out there.
Speaker 2:
This is mind blowing, carly, like seriously. I mean mind blowing in the sense of I mean, we know mindset psychology and all of that, but mind blowing in the sense that this is not being taught in the fitness industry, of all things. Like I never connected the dots and now that you're saying this, I'm like there's nothing out there that could potentially help somebody going into this field to deal with something like this. Like this is a big, freaking deal.
Speaker 1:
It is. Myself and a colleague wrote a certification for the MedFit Network. It's out there, it's online. It's called Eating Disorders what Fit Pros Need to Know. It touches on the basis of eating disorders, but also some Q&A and some basic interactions and dialogue that you can use with clients when they come to you saying things like I hate my thighs or I need to work out extra because I ate a whole pizza last night, or I'm going to brunch and I need to earn my calories.
Speaker 2:
That's good, all right. Well, we're going to put some of that in the notes for those of you who want to learn more about that. So when you are doing these, having these conversations, you're going out there, you're talking to the masses like, besides the education, and just letting them know this awareness, what are your hopes in the long run to occur?
Speaker 1:
my largest hope is that the shame surrounding eating disorders and disordered eating will start to dissipate, because these things they live and they thrive in the shadows, and the more we feel ashamed of things, the more we hide them. And when they're hidden they grow, and it's not until they're seen and they're out there and people feel able to talk about them, they become almost normalized, that people start to like themselves a little bit more and not beat themselves up for the smallest little thing.
Speaker 2:
I love that you're giving back. I mean, I really do. You took something that you had to deal with you have a better understanding than most because you've dealt with it yourself and then to educate. Like God, I'm still mind blown, because who would have known that? Now we got to educate the fitness industry? Who are talking about bodies? I still can't believe.
Speaker 2:
You're the first person I've ever known to talk about this that I know of. I don't read it, I don't see it. It's not something that it's out there, which is why I wanted you on here. So I want to speak to not only the fitness instructors and the coaches, but also the clients, the customers, to know that, look, you have a voice and you have every right to exercise that voice. And, yes, of all places, this is the place where you can talk about that, because you're talking about your body and all that. So it's not. Don't think, oh, this is not appropriate, this is not the right place. It is the right place to talk about it. I mean, where else are you going to talk about it, but right here, where they're telling you how to move your body and that you got to lose weight in a certain way.
Speaker 1:
It's crazy, and not only with trainers and coaches and group X instructors, but also in social media, if you look at your newsfeed and all the things telling you that you need to look a certain way and have a certain body and do a certain workout and drink a certain shake and all of these things because you need to fit in a specific box, in a specific shape. And our clients, our students, are dealing with that every day, all day.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and you know, when we talked about their accountability, you know we have got kids watching this. You know we got young women like watching this stuff and you have to be responsible somewhat. You know you can't just say, well, they don't have to watch it, look, they're watching, they are all over, they're watching. It's easy to get, they are watching. Be better, be different. I mean, how do you not think that they're all watching this and it can be detrimental to a young woman's mind?
Speaker 1:
The flip side of that, or what people will say to that, is well, that's on their parents, and you know what A lot of their parents aren't equipped to deal with it either.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
A lot of their parents might be in the same situation. Right, they're burying their own food issues and body issues because they don't feel safe talking about it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
And when you don't deal with your shit, it comes out later. And if you have kids and you don't deal with your shit.
Speaker 2:
guess what? They're going to pick it up. Yep, absolutely, carly. I love this conversation. I'm sure I love that. It's controversial, yeah.
Speaker 1:
It's not the most fun thing for people in our industry to talk about and it's not the easiest thing to think about. And the reason it's controversial, the reason it's not fun, is because it requires all of us to look at ourselves and change our behavior, and that's hard to do. You know, I know a lot of the things I talk about now I've done.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
And for me to say that I've done it. That's the first time I did it. It's like, oh God, it gives you that like pit in your stomach, but that's what growth is.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and we're expecting these clients to change their behaviors, and yet we can't change ours. Okay, how about?
Speaker 1:
that.
Speaker 2:
So all right, Carly, what is next? Where are you going? I see you talking all over the damn place. What's going on?
Speaker 1:
What am I doing next? Let's see Breaking news. No one knows this yet. I just signed on for the next two years to be a Lululemon ambassador. I'll have them behind me now working on this mission. So that's super exciting. So this is the first public place that I've broadcast that. So there's that I have something called a stayvention coming up in June and it's fit pros from all over the world. So it's a virtual convention. So there's a movement, professional from Asia, and there's people from all over the place doing different sessions, and I'll be talking about this, talking about the body dysmorphia and the eating disorder spectrum and the fact that, though you may not think you have anyone in your class who has an eating disorder, there's a good chance that you do Wow, okay, yeah, all right, yeah, and I've got a few things, a few things like that coming up and there's there's a book in the works as well.
Speaker 2:
I can't wait for that, I guess. Okay, so we're going to put all of this stuff on the you know information on the show notes so people can follow you and get ahold of you. So where are you these days on social media?
Speaker 1:
So my Instagram. There's a lot of underscores in this. It's underscore Carly underscore. Taylor underscore.
Speaker 2:
Okay, so Instagram, where else are you?
Speaker 1:
I'm on Facebook as Carly Goring Taylor. You can also find me under one of my companies, so Barflow on both Instagram and Facebook. Okay, and you can find me as Car of my companies, so Barflow on both.
Speaker 2:
Instagram and Facebook Okay.
Speaker 1:
And you can find me as Carly G Taylor on TikTok.
Speaker 2:
Okay, good, good. Carly, I am so happy that you came on here. Drop some major gems. Holy shit, Good shit here. I mean really good stuff here. You shared a lot of great things. I mean really good stuff here. You shared a lot of great things and I'm so grateful that you're doing this work and opening the minds of coaches, instructors in the fitness industry and it's not an easy feat, I can only imagine but at least you're talking about it and you're not stopping, so thank you for that.
Speaker 1:
And thank you for being open-minded enough and brave enough to talk about the same things.
Speaker 2:
Not everybody will. Thanks again for being a part of this and we'll definitely put everything on the show notes. So thank you so much.
