Italian Roots and Genealogy
Journey to Italy's Soul with Phil Micali
Embark with us on an intimate voyage into the heart of Italy's cultural tapestry, guided by Phil Micali of Philitaly. We weave through the narratives of Phil's ancestors, in regions steeped in tradition and history. The discovery of our roots takes on new meaning as we traverse the landscape of Molise, Basilicata, and Sicily, diving into the emotional odyssey that is genealogical exploration. Phil's personal journey, set against the backdrop of family tragedy, imparts a profound appreciation for the bonds that connect us to our cultural ancestors and the richness of our collective heritage.
Travel afar with us to Italy's hidden corners where the true essence of Italian culture thrives. From the artistry of cheese making in Agnone to the thrill of truffle hunting in Molise, these stories stir the soul of the traveler seeking authenticity beyond the well-trodden paths. We discuss the enduring presence of Italian American communities, forged from historical migrations, and how they've sculpted places like Denver with their unique skills and traditions. Revel in the heartfelt encounters and the artisanal crafts that bring the spirit of Italy to life, a testament to the enduring allure of its people and their passion for preserving a diverse heritage.
As we close, listen in for an exclusive invitation to join Phil on a cultural odyssey to Italy and Argentina. His October group expedition is not just a journey across continents, but a bridge connecting the vibrant histories and flavors of two lands shaped by Italian influence. With only a handful of seats left, we're eager to share this adventure with you, providing an ensemble of experiences that promise to be as enriching as they are unforgettable. Join us and discover the profound connections and enchanting stories that await within the Italian heart, and perhaps, within your own.
Turnkey. The only thing you’ll lift are your spirits.
Italian Marketplace LLCOnline tee shirts, hoodies and more for Italians
Farmers and Nobles
Read about my research story and how to begin your family research.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Embark with us on an intimate voyage into the heart of Italy's cultural tapestry, guided by Phil Micali of Philitaly. We weave through the narratives of Phil's ancestors, in regions steeped in tradition and history. The discovery of our roots takes on new meaning as we traverse the landscape of Molise, Basilicata, and Sicily, diving into the emotional odyssey that is genealogical exploration. Phil's personal journey, set against the backdrop of family tragedy, imparts a profound appreciation for the bonds that connect us to our cultural ancestors and the richness of our collective heritage.
Travel afar with us to Italy's hidden corners where the true essence of Italian culture thrives. From the artistry of cheese making in Agnone to the thrill of truffle hunting in Molise, these stories stir the soul of the traveler seeking authenticity beyond the well-trodden paths. We discuss the enduring presence of Italian American communities, forged from historical migrations, and how they've sculpted places like Denver with their unique skills and traditions. Revel in the heartfelt encounters and the artisanal crafts that bring the spirit of Italy to life, a testament to the enduring allure of its people and their passion for preserving a diverse heritage.
As we close, listen in for an exclusive invitation to join Phil on a cultural odyssey to Italy and Argentina. His October group expedition is not just a journey across continents, but a bridge connecting the vibrant histories and flavors of two lands shaped by Italian influence. With only a handful of seats left, we're eager to share this adventure with you, providing an ensemble of experiences that promise to be as enriching as they are unforgettable. Join us and discover the profound connections and enchanting stories that await within the Italian heart, and perhaps, within your own.
Turnkey. The only thing you’ll lift are your spirits.
Italian Marketplace LLCOnline tee shirts, hoodies and more for Italians
Farmers and Nobles
Read about my research story and how to begin your family research.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
This is Bob Sorrentino from Italian Roots and Genealogy. Be sure to check out our blog and our YouTube channel and our Facebook group and our great sponsors, your Dolce Vita, italy Rooting and Abiettivo Casa. And today I have a great tour person, phil Michali, from Phil Italy. So welcome Phil, thanks for being here. Grazie a te, grazie a voi, so, before we talk about you, know the excursions that you do. What's your family background? Where are they from in Italy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my family comes from three regions of the four grandparents, all Central, south. The maternal grandparents of mine come from Molise, which is kind of the West Virginia of the United States, for those of you who know. And so Campo Basso is the provincia, the province, and then Gildone is the town, the medieval town. And then my paternal grandparents came to New York from Basilicata, which is the arch of the boot, as I'm sure you all know, and Potenza is the name of the provincia.
Speaker 2:And then my grandfather, michali, came from Montalbano e Licona, which is the province of Messina, in the region of Sicily, and they all came around the same time, not knowing each other, 1902, 19, the latest, 1913, so before world war one. And then my parents were born in cleveland and hartford respectively, and and then I was born and raised in cleveland and, after being many, many years in washington and rome for five years, I'm actually in Italy right now, I'm in Rome as we speak. I then returned to US and New York, and then I went to Cleveland about six years ago, where I'm back to the place where I was born and raised.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's great Now. So I didn't know much about Molise until I guess I really started digging into my paternal grandmother. But my Molise roots are Capricota, oh highest point in Molise, alto Molise.
Speaker 2:So you're the highest elevation. Yeah, they get a lot of snow. Highest elevation usually yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you go there next time you go to capricota, if you go into the church, you'll see, um that my uh third great-grandparents are actually my third great-grandmother. She was the duchess of capricota the duchess oh, a noble family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're bragging now because you come from a noble family Okay very good, beatrice Capicci Piccicelli, and she married Count Giacomo Piramalo from Montebello in Calabria. And then one of the interesting people from there is my fourth great grandmother, and one of the interesting people from there is my fourth great grandmother, maria Angela de Riso.
Speaker 2:And she was originally from. Carpignone, and that's all in Molise, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, treat, because she, um, she donated uh vestments to the church that she had made in naples, and uh, that's what noble people do.
Speaker 1:That's what that's right, and people don't realize that uh, and it had the, it had the, uh, the, you know, the crest of the family, crest on the, uh, the vestments. So that was pretty cool to see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's you know that's so, you guys go to does that?
Speaker 1:mean your family goes to heaven faster uh, no, I go, I go to heaven faster, because my 13th great-grandfather was, uh, alessandro farnese pope paul iii pope paul, I Right.
Speaker 2:So the Farnese family, yeah, yeah, whoa. Okay, I mean, that's important, okay.
Speaker 1:So his we're talking too much about me, but we'll get to you. But his sister was Julia, who was the Borgia Pope's main squeeze, and he made Alessandro a cardinal and he later became Pope.
Speaker 2:Very interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I've had quite a find. But back to you, so your family roots. What have you found that's really interesting about your family roots, whether it's Basilicata, sicily, molise?
Speaker 2:Well, I've been to all places.
Speaker 2:I've spent the most time in the family roots in Molise, because we have current relatives that never came to America, came to America and so when I lived here working here 20 years ago, I did not know them because there wasn't really many family contact.
Speaker 2:But I did get to know my paternal family that had mostly moved from Basilicata to either here in Rome, where I am now, or Naples or Perugia, and so I've gotten to know pretty much all of them on that paternal side that came from Basilicata, much all of them on that paternal side that came from Basilicata, potenza, chiarante. We have no one that we could track down that emigrated, that stayed here or came back here from the emigration in the early 1900s from Sicily. But I've been to all these places and the way that I started this investigation was I had a cousin in Washington when I was working there. This investigation was I had a cousin in Washington when I was working there. She's 22 years older and she said we need to bring our fathers to Italy for the first time in 1996. Little did she know that four months later she got a diagnosis and she died the week before we left on the trip.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:That's tragic, wow, right. So she had done a little bit of research herself the year before. On our paternal side I had done really nothing to that point. I was living in Washington, speaking Italian already. I already spent a year in Siena in 1988 in my 20s and, long story short, that began the discovery process for my paternal side. And it wasn't until I came back from Italy living here, that my maternal side said what are we doing? Why are you not taking us on a trip to Italy to find our roots? And so I took them up on the offer and the request. I'd already been back to America, living in the city of New York, and then began a deeper dive, not just into the heritage but into getting to know these folks and to doing more of these trips which were coming now, you know, kind of one after the other. We want to go with this group, we want to go with that group. Okay, we'll go with a group of 50. We'll go with a group of 70, but we want to do our own. So by now I've done, and now I'm doing this type of work, you know, almost 100% of my time with my firm called Phil Italy. But personally, it all started was inspired by this cousin who said that our fathers need to see the place where their parents, our grandparents, were born. And here we are 27, 28 years later and facilitating these groups. I think she'd be pretty happy. So I do about eight trips a year now. That are sizable groups and then about four to five smaller groups, and that keeps me here at least half a year in and out.
Speaker 2:I live in, you know, based in primary residence in Ohio. I have a domicile here. I'm a stool citizen by now, and so what the discovery has been on the roots is that we're back to 1591. On the maternal side of Molise there was a gentleman who had retired from teaching, who said Antonio. And Antonio said I want to help you. I love doing this type of research. Let's start with your grandparents and go back from there. Well, he went back through the church records, through the village records, et cetera, to 1591. So we're back to 1591. This all started in 07, 08-ish.
Speaker 2:We still are updating it, but I've digitized these records into our own family tree. That's not Ancestrycom, this is a more basic GED how do you say format called TribalPagescom. And there is where I update when someone's born, when someone dies a big milestone event, post a picture. That is now the go-to source for our family. Everyone has a password and their job is to inform me, as the administrator, what's going on, because not everyone's inviting me to all the birthday parties. Now, funerals I usually know about, so those go in right away at the date of death. But births and things like that. The family's getting bigger as the generations carry on, so that's kind of where the maternal investigation has gone. I've done not as far back and again, this is all granular. I've never looked at an Ancestrycom record. It's not that I don't know what it looks like, but for my purposes I've not investigated there because I haven't had to.
Speaker 2:I had the luxury of this gentleman who does this in his spare time and what I help him is I help him raise money for the local church that needs to be restored. So that's been. My role is to give back to the origins of my grandparents' hometown where there are five churches, literally five operating churches of a town for a town of 800 people. Wow, that's crazy, right. People Wow, that's crazy right. They're very proud of these places and they always get really professional restorers either from Rome here or from the region. They're going through a what do you call it?
Speaker 2:A bidding process right now for San Rocco and they discovered that there's all this paint over frescoes from the 1400s. So that's been fun to be involved in that process. I put on my tour operator website a little section to dedicate to that so when people do touch ground there in this area, they might feel like they want to participate in that restoration. I do bring people to Molise. I have not brought yet a group other than my family to Montalbano, licona, Sicily, nor Basilicata, but that will happen. But one of the things about doing trips here and helping people like you and I have done to find our roots and do you know that this is the year of tourism for roots tourism- yes, yes.
Speaker 2:I do. Yeah, good, well, that's an ongoing process here to give money to comuni towns that have 5,000 or less inhabitants, thousand or less inhabitants. They can apply for maximum of a six thousand euro if you want to call it fund to throw on an event for either private groups or public to attract people to come to this Borghi. B-o-r-g-h-i Borgo is a small village. B-o-r-g-h-i Borgo is a small village. They don't usually say villaggio, they say Borgo or paese with a small P, or paesello, something like that, not usually villaggio. And so it's been interesting, because when I bring the travelers there, bob, it's just interesting to see how they relax. They're like, wow, we didn't expect this.
Speaker 2:This is Italy, because there's nothing iconic there. It's all folklore, music, it's all farm to table. No matter where you eat, even in a restaurant, there's something about the Italian ness of that place that resonates that. If you look at the reviews that are subjective Google reviews, most of them have nothing to do with Rome and Venice and other places I brought them. It's about the visit they had in a place that's less known, no tourists, and they feel the connection through me, the let's call it osmosis, not what do you want to call it connection through me to my family. That's something that they really appreciate, because usually when you're a tourist, people that are serving you as a tourist, there's only so much. They're going to get to know you, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's inspired people to. In this last trip to Molise, for instance, there were four out of 45 people, four couples, that had towns, In fact one very close to your home origins. Origins in Molise Capricota called San Pietro, Navelana and Agnone Ag Molise, Capricota called San Pietro, Navellana and Agnone. Agnone and Agnone is popular in Alto Molise, also very high and very close to your origins, for the bell-making factory for the bells of the Vatican and other large churches in the world still in place after centuries. Same family, the Marinelli. Are you familiar with it? No, not at all.
Speaker 2:No, so they've been written up, even recently in the New York Times and Wall Street Journal, of all places. Why? Because there's this fascination with this family that's carried this on for centuries and they have a process that's ancient, that has not changed, in terms of forming the bell and casting it in bronze and then delivering it as heavy as it might be, and then lifting it into the bell tower, et cetera, et cetera. The other place there that they're really well known for, Agnone, is a cheese factory, Casa Ficcio. Casa Ficcio, which is a cheese factory, and there they show us how it's made from scratch and then they serve us in a lunch that's completely made of cheese. Everything you're having, from the appetizer to the every course, including the dessert, is cheese oh, that's great, that's fantastic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my cousins do tart, they do um truffle or tartufo hunting. They offer that service because they're professional guides to do that and they have trained dogs not pigs but trained dogs. And Molise, like Piemonte, is very well known for its richness and resourcefulness around truffles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what we really enjoyed about our trip, especially the one um throughout, because we went to molise and and calabria and, uh, sicily and um right, a bunch of different places, but in in capricota, which was nice, there was a really great restaurant there, alfalfa um, where they served us. They explained how the sheep herders were bringing the sheep from Alise down to Puglia and back, and served us a meal that was reminiscent of what the sheep herders would eat.
Speaker 1:So it started out with potatoes with lentils and then like a sheep stew yes, yeah, and then like a yes, yeah, and, and, and things that they could just, you know, make you know on this pathway to, to pull you, so you know it was really down into the Valley that's, going down from those Apennines which are are Appalachians, very similar range.
Speaker 2:That's why Molise to me in West Virginia. I wish they would get married.
Speaker 1:That's funny. And we also went when we were there I'll mess up the name but Pietro Bonte or something like that yeah, where the Sam Knight ruins are.
Speaker 2:That was fabulous, that was really cool that's yes, there is so much archaeological um find there, uh, you know, like even the folkloric music, as I mentioned before, uh, the zampogna, which is the bagpipe of italy, is made there, uh, in that part, in that range, more in Abruzzo than Molise. But remember they're regions that used to be together until 60, 70 years ago.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, I know that, yep, and just on this trip here that I'm here now did I hear that they're thinking about coming back together.
Speaker 1:Oh, no kidding, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Right, and Abruzzo, though, is a big producer of accordions. I didn't know that. Buenos Aires, next then Montreal, all for political border reasons of being closed, not being closed whatever, but the original intent was US. After World War I, they couldn't do that, so they went to Buenos Aires instead, even though the predecessorcessors immigrants had come to America. When it came to World War II, eisenhower had shut the border and pretty much and said, okay, let these people go into Canada. So our relatives went into Canada. That was the last immigration. So we have four beachheads in America, and would you ever think, bob, that Denver would be one of them for Italian Americans?
Speaker 1:No, no, I'm surprised that all of these places I find out about around the whole country, I was like, wow, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Well, denver called for stonemasons to build the passes. The Moffett Tunnel my grandfather was asked to come to and got a job for a friend to work on the Moffitt Tunnel.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's something. So I have to ask you, since we're talking about this, because I'm sure you've come across this, where you've had people who said, ah, you know, I want to go to Rome, I want to go to Florence, and you maybe dragged them to one of these bargy what's their reaction between the two?
Speaker 2:that's a great question actually, um, because you, a traveler coming here with so much less frequency than myself, is gonna have to see certain things, to go back and get it off their checklist and get it on their instagram account to say they did it. And it's important because that, let's say, hospitality and patrimony of art, of buildings, of antique, as well as even some modern. You've got to go to Rome, you've got to go to Venice, you've got to go to Florence, but I think the major feeling is that those places are becoming overrun by tourists. I don't necessarily feel like I'm in Italy, totally. If you go to Positano tomorrow, bob and I meet you there, we will hear more New York, chicago and Cleveland accents and language than we will hear Italian. So what's happening is particularly the Amalfi Coast, even though mostly what it has to offer is natural beauty, not as much antiquity in terms of middle-aged stuff, you know, or Sam Knight, you know, roman ruins. That's not the Amalfi Coast. But you know, the Amalfi Coast became popular in the 50s with movies, and so it's full. I'm going to meet my brother, who lives in Philly, with his wife and friends on Monday, and I know that I'm going to hardly speak Italian.
Speaker 2:So I think when people go off the beaten track, they don't expect what to expect. They don't know what to expect. They get there. It's a sigh of, in a way. Let's call it relief. Less stress, more. How do you say connection with humanity versus a line that's waiting to see the David?
Speaker 2:A line waiting to see the David isn't necessarily the humanity that a lot of travelers want, but they have to do it when they arrive in Molise, let's say in the villa outside of the Borgo where my grandparents were born, where my cousins host the truffle hunting. Grandparents were born when my cousins host the truffle hunting. When they do that, they're like wow, the authenticity really resonates with them. And then, of course, the hospitality and the reception of the people there, whether it's my family or not, is immense. They have time, they're less stressed, they're less frenetic, the food is not shipped in, nothing's frozen. I mean, there's just so many things that make it authentic. And then, when you layer on the folkloric music, the visits to factories you'd never go to, to truffle hunting I mean, who truffle hunts in America? When's the last time you went truffle hunting in New York?
Speaker 1:Truffle hunt at the supermarket right.
Speaker 2:If you can't even find them.
Speaker 1:Probably you haven't been there.
Speaker 2:Well, that's right, and so I think the answer to the question and a good one is that people see the authentic Italy and they go back with this memory, without having skipped over the iconic things. But they've got this rich memory and even if they never, ever come back, they feel like, wow, boy, I went to Italy. If you read the reviews, it mostly touches on this point that you just raised.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and that's the way we felt, though, you know, especially when we went to, you know, capocotta, and especially in Fasato in Calabria, where they put on this whole day event for us, and the cheese and the olive oil.
Speaker 2:Right, but you're an American Italian, You're an Italian American like myself. But if you don't have any roots in Italy and you experience this, the question takes on another form no-transcript, and that's again, it resonates. It's something where people, I think, have a strong connection and then when that music starts, I'll tell you, people get out of their seats, they dance. You know, this isn't music we're hearing in the back pubs in New York. Now you go to an Irish pub in New York or Washington or wherever you get a sense of the Irish culture. But we really don't have Italian restaurants that are playing mandolins all the time, or zampogna Italian bagpipes, which I think is a rich sound if you like bagpipes at all. It's just a different sound. And then accordion, yeah, we have, but there's rare Italian places unless you're going to an Italian wedding that's going to have that level of musicality and folkloric musicality yeah, and that was one of the the coolest things there.
Speaker 1:Uh is, you know, and every region is different, right, they have different things in every region. In avalino we had, we had uh, uh, uh, I think it was no, uh uh, libertario or liberto I forget exactly what his name was, but 96 years old, playing the accordion and singing the songs, and he was making me tired, you know.
Speaker 2:The energy of all the people was amazing, yeah.
Speaker 1:And in Calabria there was a folk band and we went to the first town was Monte montebello, and they were there in the square and they played a little bit and and then they came, you know, down the road a piece to fasato, and and, uh, I said to leticia, I said, boy, it was so nice that they, you know that they came to both places. And she said, you know, they weren't supposed to come to the second town, but they were enjoying you so much, yes, that you were so enthused about it that they gave up their day to come and spend it with you and that's your point right.
Speaker 1:That's the difference.
Speaker 2:That's the difference yeah, because they feel, on the other end you're right that rest what they receive from the joy we have of receiving their hospitality. It becomes a scambio, an exchange, that it creates a lot of very positive energy. You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, like I said, they spent a whole entire day with us and it was funny because we were on the property of one of my ancestors, Palazzo's, and it's not in the family anymore, Somebody bought it, like this doctor bought it, and unfortunately it's in disrepair. But I said at one point, I said doesn't the owner care that we're kind of on his property here and you know, set up tables? And I said, well, yeah, this is Italy, you know, we kind of do what we want to do. But they said he may come out, he may come out. So, and at the end of the day he came over and he asked if we wanted to go into the Palazzo and I said, of course I want to go in.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, and it was.
Speaker 1:You know, it was so cool to go into a place and the sad part about it was you could see the glory that it once was. The town wanted to buy it, like 10 years ago, and he and he doesn't want to sell it, and I can understand why he doesn't want to sell it. But they wanted to buy it and refurbish it and maybe make it a b&b, whatever they were going to do with it. You know yeah, um but you know that that's where I really felt Italian.
Speaker 1:And it was more you know, it was the food, it was the atmosphere, it was the music, but more than anything else, more than anything else, it was the enthusiasm and the love from the people.
Speaker 2:They were so happy, they were happier that I was there than I was to be there, and you can't explain that you know, yes, I'll tell you that is true, um, anytime, whether it's my relatives or people that I collaborate with, whomever they are, when they see that smile on the face of american or, you know, know, for the most part Anglo-Saxon traveler. There's a lot of individuality here and I think we as Italians in general have a lot of autonomy of thinking and individualism. These were city-states. It wasn't 20 regions three centuries ago, there was like 60 city-states, and so that brings a lot of cultural individualism. I think that they want to share, they want to express, they don't want to be, they're very much against homogenizing their culture, homogenizing their culture. So when McDonald's came in, I remember when I was going to school here in 88, in Siena, full immersion for the language, because like you probably I'm not sure I didn't grow up with the language.
Speaker 1:No, I heard it, but we didn't speak it.
Speaker 2:I hardly even heard it, other than visiting grandparents and their dialect. They didn't want anybody to speak anything Italian and they didn't even speak Italian. They spoke dialect. And so if they were alive today and they heard my Italian, they would not understand me. And so that individualism, I think, really comes out when they do host, like you say, because they want you. They're so proud of the centuries of caretaking. Now it's true that some caretaking has stopped.
Speaker 2:Let's step back here. And why is that house of yours in rubble? Because there's not an injection anymore of young people wanting to stay. This is like the ghost towns of the US when an industry went away. Do you want to go to Youngstown and see what it's like right now? You know there's a lot of youngstowns here. Ohio I'm talking about where it lost its mojo because things went to Mexico or China or whatever. Here there's not as much of that going outside the country, but people are moving to the bigger cities to get jobs and a lot of young people are moving away because English is easier, is more accessible. They're learning at younger ages. People our age didn't learn English in grade school. Now it's mandatory practically, and so there's people, a lot of folks, go to Ireland and London, and so there's a young exodus from the town, the region, the country and those towns. Now are left even our family home in Gildone, in Capobasso. It's almost completely rubble now.
Speaker 1:Well yeah and in Fasato it was like that. I mean, there was a whole street. It's still, like you know, remnants of furniture and everything. And I asked them and they said, well, most of them are still owned by somebody in the family, but, like you said, they're in germany, switzerland, france, wherever, uh, and then they just but the thing is they're not all.
Speaker 2:In those other places a lot of the people abandon the home and move. A kilometer away, moved, moved on. A kilometer away. There's a lot of building. If you look at a given medieval town here and you now look at the perimeter, we have farmland, bucks County McMansions just a kilometer outside. So it's not that everyone moved away. Yes, the young people in their 20s and 30s, they're going to move, but they may come back. Why they can't work more remotely. All these towns have internet like we have anywhere in America. That's a great thing. That's not yesterday, but I'll tell you the internet status here. No matter where I go, it's super powered. I don't care how ancient the village is, it's great.
Speaker 2:Now the abandonment though. I have people I know who have built a McMansion 20 years ago. That's all stucco. It's not a wood house, but it's a typical Italian large villa with an olive orchard, huge garden for lettuce and vegetables, perhaps a cultivated area for truffle hunting, lemon trees, orange trees and, depending on what they do, they may even have a cantina to make wine, and if they're a butcher, they're going to have a place to dry the meat, so that now becomes an economy in and of itself in a living arrangement. Well, what's the centro storico, the center village? How is that serving them? It's not Turn off the water, turn off the gas, turn off the lights. That means any house, I don't care how old it is. If it's not curated and if the temperature isn't kept in a certain level, it starts to crumble from moisture. And that's what I see happening before my very eyes in many towns.
Speaker 2:Here Now a fashion designer, bruno Cucinelli, famous for cashmere he's from Milan or that area. He actually bought a town that was crumbling on the side of a hill in Umbria, solomeo, near Assisi-ish Perugia, more near Perugia, and the investment that's come from a corporation. Now to bring that town back, they don't need donations from private people to restore the church fresco, it comes from the industry of fashion. So there's a good example where the recovery and the investment back into the small town to restore it to its glory is in fact happening as well.
Speaker 2:I don't know that, american by American by American, one by one by one, that comes and buys a dollar a for a Euro, but this town says, if you do that, you have to invest 50 000. I don't know that. That's going to be the end, all from my opinion, of rebuilding these towns, but having outside investment for people to come in corporations, um, be it fashion or whatever to have a beachhead there. And this guy actually do. You know that? He brought all of his employees to that town and said if you're not coming with, you're not working here.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's something. No, I didn't know that. That's fantastic, that's really good.
Speaker 2:About 1,600 employees. So it's a study in demography and sociology and geography and history to see that these towns that in many cases, as you said, like your own in Calabria, are in your own home, just like my ancestors' home, are not going to sustain into the future if they're not taken care of by someone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean they actually. One guy actually offered me a home and I said I can't just take you home, I can't just take a home from you. He said no, no.
Speaker 2:Well, no, the thing is. The thing is you'd pay taxes on that. So good for him for getting a tax, being a tax collector, whoever that was. And number two once you have the home, you're now the person that's expected to keep it up, let alone pay the taxes. Because even if the home is through rubble and you haven't sold that or you haven't given it back, given it to the community, to this town, you're paying taxes on that land. And so you know he may have been doing a back-end job of trying to be a tax collector.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe, maybe that's possible. I mean, my ancestors were the tax collectors. I didn't know until recently that they didn't pay taxes. They all lived in Naples and they didn't pay taxes. They just collected and they would go to the towns once or twice a year and that was their thing. So let's talk about the tours. You do different tours to different Borgy and regions and things. Yeah, Right.
Speaker 2:So Phil Italy was founded on the concept that started with the. It was birthed by the fact that this cousin of mine, as I mentioned in Washington, said let's take our fathers to Sicily and Basilicata. And so from there it was born, and I then moved here to work full time in my field that I've trained in, in healthcare management, for five years, from 98 to 03. So the volume picked up about who wanted to visit when to have a tour, either family or not. When I went back to the US and lived in New York, then it got even more intense. Well, you live there, you speak the language and blah, blah, blah. Why don't we go as a family? And so that's one. By now I've done about five of those trips with family. But having that momentum, I decided to brand my activity about a little over a year ago to be named Phil Italy, so it's philitallyco. Be named Phil Italy, so it's philitallyco. And so now I create group shared tours where you can sign up for one Bob, or you come to me and say I want my family trip to be customized for us. I don't want to invite anybody else. We have 15 people, we have seven, or I'm picking up a woman from Miami tomorrow who wants to do a bike ride here for a week with a large group of 300 kilometers, and then her son and his partner are coming here to spend another week with her and relax, and so in that case it's a very customized thing. I'm their driver, I'm their guide, I'm their interpreter, I'm their accompaniment, and so that's much more customized.
Speaker 2:I do have a couple of industry, given that I've been so grateful to be a part of the healthcare industry, that it's centered around a profession. When I lived here, I was on faculty and I taught a class in managed healthcare at the Bocconia Private University. It does a master's program and through that I realized that there's a lot of Americans that want to come here in the trade of healthcare clinical or management to learn about the way it works here. How does Italy spend less than half of our GNP spend in America and get double the results? How do they do it? And so there's a trip that's designed around healthcare because, again, I've been on faculty, I've met with American CEOs and others who want to investigate that. The ingenuity, the, the, the. What's the secret of the blue zone in Sardinia, where people, for the most part, we can pretty much count on living to a hundred. Yeah, you know. So that's really the construct of the context I also do for people who don't want me to a company to help them, you know, get really good hotel deals, get the inside scoop from an insider be available when they're on their trip, when they feel like they're having a crisis and sometimes people do feel like they're having a crisis here because things don't work here like they do in America.
Speaker 2:For sure and an American traveler here is it could be a stressful experience if you're not letting down your guard a little bit to say that things will happen, For as many bad things that happen here that are stressful in terms of going from point A to point B isn't as easy as it is. Where we come from in America, there's 10 times more surprises on the other end that you never would have expected. That either eliminate or suppress all the stressful moments. Yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 1:We kind of experienced that. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's to me what the value add is of the service. I think the differentiation that Phil Italy has of others because there's a dime, a dozen of tour operators like myself, big and small is that going off the beaten path and getting to meet people for real, a quattrochi like this, four eyes together and having the authenticity. To me that is what differentiates and that's what's bringing people back. I just prolonged my trip here, my stay here, for a month, because the people that were here in March and April, bob told their friends and said oh, we were coming in June, but we didn't have a plan. And are you going to be there in June? I mean June? I said no, but as that momentum kicked up, it became one, it became two, then became three. I extended my stay in order to serve these customers, one arriving tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's great, that's really neat. And yeah, like you said, we experienced the stressful moments and then we experienced the surprises. I mean, you know, I mean, one of our big surprises was we were in the, the b&b in palermo, and they had just this great, you know, the. The breakfast was on this, uh, the, you know, I guess, the fifth floor, the hotel or something like that, and you just look out and see all the cathedrals and it's like there's nothing more relaxing than that, other than maybe being in chile and eating in a restaurant where the waves are lapping the, the restaurant, for lack of a better word, if you know what I mean, right, um?
Speaker 2:so you mean over and looking at the straight, yeah, yeah yeah, I mean, yeah, the straight, the Strait, yeah, absolutely, that's a to me. That connection between the island and the peninsula, just it gives me goosebumps Just thinking about that view. You know, because you're on a ship, your train goes on, there is no bridge yet there's probably a lot of talk about it.
Speaker 1:They're talking about it, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think lot of talk about it.
Speaker 2:They're talking about it, yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't think the Sicilians want it, but when you think of it, yeah, they better get their mojo going, because the bridge in Genoa that was much shorter, as you know collapsed and it was a complete tragedy. So that was about five years ago. But anyway, on that ship, especially if you have Italian roots, taking that ship and the cars and the train go on the ship, even though it's a short hour ride, it gives you a sense of what they were experiencing leaving emigrating with not a dime in their pocket, looking for that land of opportunity. It gives me goosebumps to think how, what they were thinking. And would they go back?
Speaker 2:My grandparents that landed in the Northeast and then in Ohio, they had absolutely no interest in going back. They eventually had the resources, but they said we left a place that was futile. Why would we go back? And so it wasn't until the 50s that Italy as you know, 50s and 60s that Italy travel for Americans has become anything of interest Before people were coming from there to visit us.
Speaker 2:If you were noble, like your family, and you came from the north in some cases, where there was much more nobility than in the south, then okay, you probably didn't emigrate to America at all. Or if you did emigrate to America, it was in South America and Buenos Aires in the in the mid 1800s or 1860s, or, you know, before the unification of this country in 18. What was it ultimately was done in 18,? What was it ultimately? It was done in 1870, I think. Garibaldi unified the country to make it all one. All these city-states now were one, and it took on the name of Italy, under one kingdom, under king, and then it only became a republic, no king, a republic after World War II, which many people don't know, that Italy has been a republic only since just after World War II. Before that, even during the unification, it was a kingdom, and then the Savoia family from Piemonte were the monarchy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you know, I don't know why my paternal grandparents came, my maternal grandparents. I know why they came because they were from Puglia. It was very poor. The war was breaking out. My grandfather had fought in Libya. My grandmother said you're not going to fight in another war, and her brother was here. So I kind of know my father's family. Only my grandmother and her aunt came to America. Her aunt came in 1905 and she came in 1915. The rest of the family were all there. So the only thing that my cousin and I can think of is that my cousin's great, great, great, great, great, great great grandfather. He was an entrepreneur of sorts and supposedly he had some kind of leather business, whether it's wallets or shoes or something like that.
Speaker 1:So the only thing we could think of is, you know, world War I had just started Maybe. He said come to america, I'll help you out, because, of course, my grandmother, being a woman, wasn't entitled to anything anyway.
Speaker 2:So you, know she probably had very little schooling as well no, actually.
Speaker 1:No, she, she, uh. No, she was, uh, she was schooled. I mean the story my, my great-grandfather I mean my grandfather was in the seminary studying to be a priest and my grandmother's carriage broke down in front of the seminary and he helped fix it and they gave him a ride someplace and that was the end of that.
Speaker 2:That was the end of the seminary is when he met your father.
Speaker 1:Yes, but no, she, you know, unlike my like. You know my, my mother's mother. You know she signed with an ex. You know my grandmother, they, she was too.
Speaker 2:She did my grandmother from basilicata that ended up in hartford springfield in hartford, where my dad was born, never went to school. She signed with an ex, but she was, to me, the most intelligent woman on the planet yeah, my grandma.
Speaker 1:Well, it probably because that you know she probably because she didn't go to school. I think there's something to be said for that, right Street smarts or whatever.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I think my grandmother, she was educated and she was born just outside of Naples. But I know the family did live in Naples for part of the time because my great-grandmother she was born and she passed away right in the heart of Naples, right by the Duomo, and the only thing I could think of there is that they lived in Massa di Somma, outside of Naplesples and okay she died when she was only 42, so the only thing I could think of is maybe she got sick or something and they brought her to Naples because we're serving city or whatever you know for health care?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely, that makes the next last thing. Are you aware, speaking of these, molise and other places, of Alfredo Brunetti, who runs the Molisana Association in Queens?
Speaker 1:I don't know him.
Speaker 2:no, he's a former mayor, I would say you one of the you're probably aware of, the Borghi Piubelli in Italy. It's a recognition, a recognition that this little village is a jewel. It gets a lot of marketing in the tourism trade. For sure, towns are very proud to apply and get the recognition. Well, in Malaysia there are four towns. One of them is Sepino, the other one is, I think Pietro, bonbandante is also the other, if I'm not mistaken. The one you mentioned and the one that I'm mentioning is Oratino. Oratino, near Campobasso, and the former mayor, his Italian-American wife. He now lives there because he's married to her and he spends three or four months a year in his original hometown. But he created a Molizana Association of people that have Molizana heritage in New York.
Speaker 1:What was his first name again?
Speaker 2:Alfredo Brunet. So he spends most of his time in America, new York and Queens and then he spends a few months in a row here, mostly in the summer, and he also hosts a tennis tournament, this association, and so, as you know, in a lot of American cities there are these kind of clubs, associations, heritage groups, whatever, and what they're trying to do, obviously, with the.
Speaker 2:San Gennaro Festival in Little Italy and Manhattan. He's trying to preserve the Italian heritage. Columbus Day, as you know, is very important to Italian-American heritage. It's being a little bit, it has a little bit of controversy in certain states for it to be called Columbus Day. In some states you cannot call it Columbus Day. But just a little thought, food for thought about you know, maybe someone else to have to interview about an Italian coming here much later in life and finding a niche to create camaraderie amongst people that have heritage, like you and I do, from Alize.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll have to look him up and you know, in Capricota there's a very famous designer there.
Speaker 1:I think he I don't know if it was Versace he worked for, but he's got a little museum there which was he gave us this, you know, special tour of the museum opened it just for us. Let us try on clothes and stuff like that. Really, really nice guy I I don't recall his name right now, but he gave us the book of and he was. He designed, uh, you know, through the 50s and 60s and 70s and he and he's got this fantastic little museum there.
Speaker 2:Well, if you remember this stuff, so I'll just do a search for it, because I'm sure I'll find it for the fashion stylist who is from that area.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and they surprised us that we're driving down the road and they take us to the little thing there. We're driving down the road and they take us to the little thing there, and they also have the snowplow that was donated by Americans in like 1950.
Speaker 2:Really, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, there still is a lot of affinity between our countries, but particularly in that period, I can imagine what the affinity was like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, after the war.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's, and it's really the pride of the town. You know they love this snowplow. My daughter got to sit in it and all of that kind of stuff. So before we go, how do people find you? What's the website?
Speaker 2:again, it's Phil Italy, so phil plus the word of Italy alltogetherco Also on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok as Phil Italy Cultural Exchanges. It's an American firm based in Ohio, but you know 90% of the work is done here. I am hosting a trip Italy and Argentina in October for anyone that's interested. There's also trips scheduled for this year still that have seats open for group travel where the price points are very affordable. You would be with people you don't know, but you could bring people, so you know people by bringing them. But the only place I want to go off the beaten track a bit is places where Italy has a great influence, and Argentina is one of those. So there is an itinerary. We have a few seats left on that one, not many for October, and yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean you can text email it's philitaly100 at gmailcom, but the best is really through social media, philitaly, cultural exchanges and then also the website.
Speaker 1:Super, super. Well, listen, I really appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 2:Thank you, and just let me know if you'd like an introduction to Alfredo or anybody else, because I love, love, love what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Okay, thanks a lot.
