Conversations with Big Rich
Hear conversations with the legacy stars of rockcrawling and off-road. Big Rich interviews the leaders in rock sports.
Conversations with Big Rich
Episode 205 features Mark McMillin, chairman, racer, legacy builder.
Family legacy racer, Mark McMillin, chairman of the Board of the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame shares life in the McMillin family. It’s all about people, with a few race cars and some river-time thrown in. Mark was inducted in the Off Road Motorsports Hall of Fame in 2018. Mark is why we say; legends live at ORMHOF.org. Be sure to tune in on your favorite podcast app.
2:46 – My dad used to say, if you want to get something done, give it to somebody who’s busy
12:11 – when I graduated college, there were no jobs for me, interest rates were 19-20%, we weren’t building houses
20:44 – Racing is a big part of our life. It’s not our whole life.
23:07 – why we’ve been successful is because we try hard at everything we do
26:43 – I was never the fastest guy in a buggy, but I always found the finish line
40:54 – “What is your legacy?” Good people!
44:10 – I think this off-road racing fraternity is 99% people cut from the same cloth
49:01 – You don’t have to have a cheat sheet for things you really care about.
Special thanks to ORMHOF.org for support and sponsorship of this podcast.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
All Automotive with Matt ClawsonAutomotive related topics. Anything from owning an repair facility to racing. Anything...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
[00:00:05.290] -
Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present and future legends as well as business owners, employees, media and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call offroad. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active in offroad. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off road.
[00:00:46.750] -
This episode of Conversations with Big Rich is brought to you by the Off Road Motorsports Hall of Fame. The mission of the Hall of Fame is to educate and inspire present and future generations of the off road community by celebrating the achievements of those who came before. We invite you to help fulfill the mission of the Off Road Motorsports Hall of Fame. Join, partner, or donate today Legends Live at ORMHOF.org
[00:01:14.950] - Big Rich Klein
On today's episode of Conversations with Big Rich is the legendary racer from a legendary family. A successful businessman who knows what it takes to win. With five overall baja 1000 wins and an overall win at the Mint 400, all in the 80s, he wins at racing, business and family. He is also a 2018 Offroad Motorsports Hall of Fame inductee and the current chairman of the Offroad Motorsports Hall of Fame Board of directors, Mark McMillin. Well, Mark, it's great to have you sitting down as a guest on the podcast today and going over your life. Let's get started.
[00:01:55.910] - Mark McMillin
Well, Rich, it's great to talk to you, and I feel fortunate that I've gotten to know you here personally in the last year and a half or two with the Off Road Motorsports hall of Fame. And thank you for joining us on the board. And I believe wholeheartedly in what we're doing there. It does blend right in with my family, my personal and family history.
[00:02:18.700] - Big Rich Klein
Right. I believe well, and let's get into that. To answer that, it has been an extremely exciting year for me working with you guys. I'm learning a lot myself and I'm having a great time, and it's absolutely worthwhile to be involved. No matter how much time it takes. It's worthwhile.
[00:02:46.850] - Mark McMillin
It takes a lot of time. And there's an old saying that my dad used to use, if you want to get something done, give it to somebody who's busy.
[00:02:53.030] - Big Rich Klein
Exactly.
[00:02:54.070] - Mark McMillin
Those are the people. Shit. Done.
[00:02:56.420] - Big Rich Klein
True. Very true. Your dad was a wise man and we'll get into.
[00:03:00.310] - Mark McMillin
Yeah.
[00:03:00.790] - Big Rich Klein
So let's start at the very beginning. Where were you born and raised?
[00:03:05.210] - Mark McMillin
I was born in Chula Vista, California, which is San Diego area for those of people not local knowledge of that. Born and raised in San Diego. I'm 67 years old. I was born in August of 56, and I'm the oldest of three children. And I was born to very fortunate to have the two parents that I had. And they very fortunate to have parents that stayed together for 50 something years, too. Corky McMillin and my mom, Vonnie. Vonnie with a Vonny. And they're both gone. My dad left in '05 and my mom left about seven or eight years ago. So now I'm officially the adult.
[00:03:52.330] - Big Rich Klein
You're the family patriarch now.
[00:03:55.630] - Mark McMillin
Well, me and my brother and my sister.
[00:03:57.550] - Big Rich Klein
Right.
[00:03:58.810] - Mark McMillin
I got one brother, Scott McMillin, who a lot of people in off road racing know. And then I have a sister, Lori, but I'm the oldest. So, Mark, I'm married to CeAnn and have three kids, Daniel, Luke and Macy McMillin. Macy, my daughter, and then my sister has three kids. And then my brother has two kids, Andy McMillin, who's a very accomplished off road racer. And then one daughter, Jessica McMillin, who's raced a little bit.
[00:04:33.270] - Big Rich Klein
Three generations of racers and I guess more coming, too, it sounds like.
[00:04:38.490] - Mark McMillin
Yeah. Daniel just married into two wonderful little boys that are five and six. And then Luke just had his first child and she's nine months. Yeah. Hopefully there'll be some racers in that group.
[00:04:54.590] - Big Rich Klein
One of those heritage legacy families.
[00:04:57.240] - Mark McMillin
We hope so. That's the plan.
[00:04:59.090] - Big Rich Klein
Awesome.
[00:04:59.520] - Mark McMillin
And I just hope we can keep racing in Mexico every year. I wonder how much longer that's going to last. But it's beautiful down there. It's where we all started in the early 70s. Going down to watch the Baja five hundreds and the Baja one thousands. My dad and I, along with my brother and a bunch of other people, went down in Baja bugs in 1971, watched the Baja 1000.
[00:05:24.390] - Big Rich Klein
And then that's when the family got bit.
[00:05:27.510] - Mark McMillin
Well, a little bit, yeah. We were dune bugging in the imperial Valley. Sand dunes at Gordon's. Well, our family owned that trailer park for a lot of years. And then our dune buggy group started going to Mexico. We all built Baja bugs one summer. It was like four of them. We all built them in one garage. One time. Project some bolt on fenders. And we'd go down and watch the Bahama thousands. In 7172-7374 there was no Baja thousand because it was the fuel shortage. And then 75, we actually had a friend that raced it. We went down and helped him, and he didn't finish. And then early summer of 76, my dad said, let's borrow Leonard Greaser's race car. We literally borrowed it and entered it in the baja thousand.
[00:06:20.360] - Big Rich Klein
And that was 76.
[00:06:22.970] - Mark McMillin
A class nine car.
[00:06:24.350] - Big Rich Klein
Class nine. Well, you guys started with, like, one of the slowest possible classes.
[00:06:30.830] - Mark McMillin
Yeah. Well, you had to drive.
[00:06:33.490] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, yeah.
[00:06:34.480] - Mark McMillin
You had to know where you're going, too. That was a big part. There was no gps, no cell phones, no SAT phones.
[00:06:42.060] - Big Rich Klein
How did we ever survive?
[00:06:45.010] - Mark McMillin
We were just tough. Son of a bitches. Alarm is going off to remind you. Me to talk to you. How do I get rid? Okay. You there?
[00:06:56.040] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I'm here.
[00:06:57.560] - Mark McMillin
So, yeah, we survived just one day at a time. But my first race, I turned the car over, got that uprighted, went another 150 miles down in the desert, and the car quit. And I couldn't figure it out. And spent the night out there. And that was me and my kids. If anybody, our team loses my kids longer than about five minutes. I'm looking for some scalp.
[00:07:30.110] - Big Rich Klein
But technology has changed. We can find people nowadays.
[00:07:33.790] - Mark McMillin
My dad lost me all night. Found me the next morning about 08:00 he actually found me in that Baja bug. He drove that Baja bug around looking for me.
[00:07:45.910] - Big Rich Klein
So you broke down after a pit, and then they just went down the racetrack to find you?
[00:07:52.310] - Mark McMillin
Yeah, that's what happened. He found me about six in the morning, and I started a fire. And my dad always made us carry sleeping bags when we were pre running and racing, because a couple of times pre running, we didn't know where we were for that race. And even in 77, 78, we carried sleeping bags because we didn't know where the hell we were. And a lot of times we'd just spend the night when it got dark. Because at least if you can see where you're going a little bit, you have an idea of. We generally need to go that. Uh. So I spent the night out. Happened. What happened, Rich? Was kind of embarrassing. Now. The points closed up.
[00:08:28.340] - Big Rich Klein
Oh. On the distributor, an easy fix.
[00:08:32.210] - Mark McMillin
My dad fixed it in less than a minute
[00:08:35.650] - Big Rich Klein
And what did he say when he found it?
[00:08:40.310] - Mark McMillin
Drive it. Tell Janeiro the trailer is waiting for you. But I opened it up. I was snapping the points. I was getting spark out of the coil. I was getting spark to the plugs. But I didn't realize that when it was rolling around on the lobe, it wasn't opening them up. Live and learn.
[00:09:00.690] - Big Rich Klein
Yes.
[00:09:01.440] - Mark McMillin
Now there are no points. Those trophy trucks quit. Now you better have a computer with you.
[00:09:07.070] - Big Rich Klein
Very true. So that first race, 76, class nine. Your dad raced. Were you guys copiloting?
[00:09:17.020] - Mark McMillin
Yeah, it was a single seater. We were going to copilot, but I never got it to my dad.
[00:09:21.530] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. Oh, that was that car. Okay.
[00:09:24.520] - Mark McMillin
Yeah, that was 1976. And you and I both have a good friend Rory Ward, who's restoring that car right now.
[00:09:31.660] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, nice.
[00:09:34.790] - Mark McMillin
Just to go over there, Kingman, and see it.
[00:09:36.890] - Big Rich Klein
1976, that's the year I graduated high school.
[00:09:41.130] - Mark McMillin
I got out in 74.
[00:09:44.890] - Big Rich Klein
And what kind of student were you? Were you a good student or were you one of those looking out the window?
[00:09:52.270] - Mark McMillin
Both. I liked school. I've always liked school. In high school, I just got through there to swam and I was a swimmer and played water polo and I liked school. I was kind of a nerd. I took math as electives. I don't know anybody who did that their junior and senior year.
[00:10:13.240] - Big Rich Klein
No, I was all in photography.
[00:10:16.950] - Mark McMillin
No, I was more about mine there. I love math. My dad was good at math and I just liked it. So then I went from there to southwestern Junior college, and then I transferred from there to San Diego State. And then I graduated from San Diego.
[00:10:31.150] - Big Rich Klein
State in 1979 with a degree in.
[00:10:35.690] - Mark McMillin
Marketing, business and marketing.
[00:10:38.100] - Big Rich Klein
Perfect. And about the time period that your dad was developing, that was prior to developing houses and stuff, that was prior to you in college?
[00:10:52.370] - Mark McMillin
Yeah, my dad started his own business 1960, I guess, when I was four or five. And before that, he was working with his father and his brother. They were just general contractors. They'd do remodeling or build somebody a custom house or they didn't have any money to build a spec home, which build it and then hope to sell it. But then my dad decided to start his own deal in 1960, and my mom was helping him. I remember the days when everybody knocked on our back door. Knock, knock, knock. In the morning at 06:00 my mom made them coffee. My dad told them where they were going. And my mom did payroll and built that to a company that we had 1200 employees, 800 real estate agents, and building about 2000 new homes a year in California and Texas.
[00:11:40.020] - Big Rich Klein
Wow.
[00:11:41.390] - Mark McMillin
But we're not doing that anymore. We decided to get out of that.
[00:11:45.090] - Big Rich Klein
Understandable. Understandable.
[00:11:48.610] - Mark McMillin
Yeah, just go ahead. Entitlements is where the money is made. Getting the right to build 100 houses on somebody's farm field. But that entitlement business now is so unpredictable.
[00:12:02.410] - Big Rich Klein
True. So then growing up, I suppose that you helped work in the business?
[00:12:11.450] - Mark McMillin
Yeah, I swept houses. Give me a dollar a house to sweep houses. And then when you got done sweeping them, you just go back and sweep them again. My dad believed in having a really clean job site all the time. And then when I graduated from college in 79, there was no jobs for me. Jimmy Carter was president. Interest rates were 19% to 20%. We weren't building homes, we were trying to sell 100 that we had. And I remember my dad buying those loans down to, like, twelve or 14%, and then you could sell them. So people, now the world's freaking out over the six and a half or 7% interest. That's normal. What wasn't normal was the two and 3% two years ago.
[00:13:01.290] - Big Rich Klein
Right. But all those people that invested in real estate, in that 2%, when they don't want to reinvest it again at 6%.
[00:13:17.050] - Mark McMillin
No, but they should. It doesn't matter. Is just part of the equation. Got friends ask me all the time, when's a good time to buy a house? I said, it depends on the deal. I'm always looking for apartments or investment investments. So you got to back 7% interest into your calculation. Big deal, right? It's all part of the formula.
[00:13:40.750] - Big Rich Klein
Yes. It's all that math.
[00:13:43.130] - Mark McMillin
Not about the timing. It's about the deal.
[00:13:45.830] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Makes sense.
[00:13:49.320] - Mark McMillin
Yeah.
[00:13:49.880] - Big Rich Klein
We went through a period of buying houses that went into bankruptcy, typically bank ownership, and then to auction. We bought some houses and flipped them that way.
[00:14:06.430] - Mark McMillin
That's good.
[00:14:06.990] - Big Rich Klein
That was a pretty good deal.
[00:14:08.510] - Mark McMillin
My brother did that, too. My brother flipped over, like, maybe 150 houses in like two years.
[00:14:14.320] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, we did three.
[00:14:17.010] - Mark McMillin
We put a little team together and some of our superintendents and stuff, and we had a little machine. So my boys now, along with my boys and my wife and my daughter, we own a lot of apartments.
[00:14:34.890] - Big Rich Klein
So you're managing housing?
[00:14:38.330] - Mark McMillin
We're doing the asset management. We're not doing the property management management. Property managers, they got to rent them up, they got to collect deposits. They got to know somebody with a plunger. And we hire property management companies, but we do the asset management.
[00:14:58.590] - Big Rich Klein
Okay.
[00:15:00.290] - Mark McMillin
It's better for our calendars so we can go racing.
[00:15:02.920] - Big Rich Klein
There you go. So let's talk about all that racing. So, 1976 class nine rollover, got it uprighted, went another 150 miles or so, and then points closed up. What happened in the second race?
[00:15:21.750] - Mark McMillin
Well, the second race would have been the next spring at probably Parker. And we did. If we went to Parker that year, or was it two years later? I'm going to open a little cheat sheet I got here.
[00:15:33.160] - Big Rich Klein
Perfect.
[00:15:34.410] - Mark McMillin
All this book, one of my books oh, that's right.
[00:15:38.280] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. The McMillin story.
[00:15:40.570] - Mark McMillin
Yeah.
[00:15:42.330] - Big Rich Klein
Big blue.
[00:15:43.700] - Mark McMillin
Do you have.
[00:15:44.780] - Big Rich Klein
No, no, I don't. I've got to get one.
[00:15:47.410] - Mark McMillin
I'll mail you one tomorrow. Okay.
[00:15:49.760] - Big Rich Klein
That's awesome.
[00:15:50.960] - Mark McMillin
We went to Parker in February of 77, and we raced class nine cars for about three or four years. Our first unlimited car was a 1979. That was a class two car. So we went to Parker and we finished. So that worked out well again as a team.
[00:16:17.310] - Big Rich Klein
Your dad, yourself, and Scott?
[00:16:21.450] - Mark McMillin
Well, no, Scott didn't start racing until 78. See, Scott's four years younger than me. Not that that made a difference, but him and my sister were showing horses, quarter horses, and they did that a lot. They had horses with a trainer, just like we got race cars in a shop. And he started racing with us in 78. And then we built some class two cars, which basically class one and class two in the. Was the same unlimited buggy. One seat was a sink, a class one. And the two seaters were the two seaters. Class two was the two seaters.
[00:17:02.510] - Big Rich Klein
Right.
[00:17:03.430] - Mark McMillin
Same class. Now it's all because class one. So we did that. My brother got into trucks in the. He bought a truck from Dave's shop and raced a class eight truck. And then the trophy trucks came along and we owned a lot of Chenweth. And I just saw Lyn Chenworth last weekend.
[00:17:26.590] - Big Rich Klein
That's excellent.
[00:17:28.070] - Mark McMillin
Yeah, he was down in Mexico. We were down in San Felipe. Not this weekend, but the weekend before last. And we probably bought and built twelve or 15 Chenowith cars.
[00:17:41.330] - Big Rich Klein
And he has his place in Puertocitas, isn't it?
[00:17:44.710] - Mark McMillin
It is. Percibu.
[00:17:46.690] - Big Rich Klein
Percibu. That's it.
[00:17:48.140] - Mark McMillin
Kilometer 21. It's a really nice place. Anybody that can get a chance to get down there, it's really nice. He's got a little, maybe ten room hotel, a nice restaurant, a nice swimming pool. It's right on the beach. And a great collection of Chenowith race cars and Chenowith military vehicles. They did a lot for the military when Mike Thomas had it.
[00:18:14.110] - Big Rich Klein
So I have to ask, Percibu, when I used to run with pistol Pete and his crew, we would go there for bowling. You didn't have to change your shoes type of bowling. Is Chenoweth doing that at his place? Bowling, yeah, bowling. Bowls of the booze. Yes. Tequila sangrias?
[00:18:42.210] - Mark McMillin
Yes. No. Well, yeah, because the Percibu restaurant closed down about two years ago and it's been open on some holidays, I guess. But Lyn hired most of their. Lyn's got a nice place and I think he's got the community drink bowl going. Yeah.
[00:19:02.460] - Big Rich Klein
Okay, cool. Excellent.
[00:19:05.490] - Mark McMillin
You only need one of those with three people.
[00:19:08.910] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I found out the hard way that you don't start those early in the day and expect to go all night.
[00:19:14.560] - Mark McMillin
No, it's kind of like Long island iced tea. You know, it's like four or five alcohols. I don't even know what's in them.
[00:19:26.570] - Big Rich Klein
They're just tasty. I'm glad I can't drink anymore. My next trip to Mexico will be no hangovers.
[00:19:39.290] - Mark McMillin
So we've had a lot of fun racing. But let me tell you another part about the family that probably our biggest recreational thing is the river. I just got home today from the river, our river, the Colorado river. And our houses are down by Lake Martinez, which is north of Yuma, like 30 miles.
[00:20:00.830] - Big Rich Klein
Okay.
[00:20:01.680] - Mark McMillin
And that's where our family has really grown together. And my father and mom took us down there in the early sixty s. And I still have the original family land. It's a new house. We scraped the house in 98 because if we didn't scrape, it was going to fall over. And now I have two houses down there. My sister's got two houses, my brother's got two houses for their whole family. We're all within a mile of each other. And of course, half of San Diego county is there. Just like you look at Parker and you look at Havasu, and that's all of La or Vegas.
[00:20:43.910] - Big Rich Klein
True.
[00:20:44.850] - Mark McMillin
We love the river. And that's know. With all due respect to all the promoters that are out there, a lot of them are friends. Matt Martellis and Donald at legacy and even the best of the desert guys. So why don't you race? Our race? Why don't you race. Know, I said four or five years. Enough for me. Budget wise and time wise, racing is a big part of our life. It's not our life.
[00:21:14.630] - Big Rich Klein
Right.
[00:21:15.180] - Mark McMillin
We're about family and racing. It's fun, but it can sure occupy you. We're going to get ready to go to San Felipe. I think we're leaving a week from tomorrow or maybe a week from Wednesday. We'll be down there twelve or 13 days.
[00:21:35.070] - Big Rich Klein
Wow.
[00:21:37.790] - Mark McMillin
They say your kids get over that stuff two or three times. I said, no, they're going to get over it about eight or nine. Well, there's nothing like knowing where you're going when you point that truck, step on that croyer throttle pedal and point that mason into the bumps. So it really works. That's unbelievable.
[00:22:02.950] - Big Rich Klein
And knowing where you're going is very important.
[00:22:06.120] - Mark McMillin
Yeah.
[00:22:06.470] - Big Rich Klein
It know laying down not only that gps line you want to follow, because you never know. Hopefully you're out in front and have clean air, but that's never a given.
[00:22:18.590] - Mark McMillin
No, it's not. One flat tire somewhere in the first San Felipe, you shouldn't have one anywhere but one in the first 50 miles and you are really in trouble.
[00:22:35.980] - Big Rich Klein
Right.
[00:22:37.490] - Mark McMillin
But we got Bf Goodrich and they are really good. So I think they're the best. And Toyo for a long time had problems, but I think they got their tires sorted out. And I'm sure they've been dissecting the bfgs. Right. Figure out what makes them so good.
[00:23:00.330] - Big Rich Klein
Well, what made you guys so good? Or yourself? Because you have quite the history of wins.
[00:23:07.130] - Mark McMillin
Well, I was the first guy to win five Baja 1000 overalls. And second guy to win five of those was Larry Ragland. And then the third guy was my nephew, Andy. And now I think Rob Mack has five or six that he got a couple of those with. Luke, my younger son. And why we've been successful because we try hard at everything we do. We work hard at it. We don't just show up and race. And I think I taught my boys how to, like, my dad taught us learn how to drive and just be smart. And we got good equipment. He always had the best safety equipment that we could buy, and he'd teach us to do the right thing.
[00:24:06.640] - Big Rich Klein
Right. So part of that learning to drive is that keeping a pace or a speed to where you're not over driving what you can see.
[00:24:21.170] - Mark McMillin
You got to be able to read the terrain. And we learned that over in the sand duns when I was young. I was probably eight, nine years old when I started going in the sand dunes and built my own doom buggy when I was 13. Or my dad had one built for me. And then my kids learned to drive in that buggy. I still have that buggy.
[00:24:44.110] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. Yeah, that's pretty awesome.
[00:24:48.810] - Mark McMillin
Next time you're in San Diego, my race shop is pretty neat, but I have a little museum at my house. Got all my racing stuff in it, including my dad's last car, macadoo, which is the Chenwood two seater that I won the 81 and 83 Baja 1000 in, which I'm going to drive in Norra this year.
[00:25:08.150] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, nice.
[00:25:11.170] - Mark McMillin
Me and Rory are going to drive it, and Barbara and Dave Rainey are going to chase us. That's a lot of fun.
[00:25:22.240] - Big Rich Klein
That'll be a good team.
[00:25:23.700] - Mark McMillin
The next time you're down here with. With your wife. Come see me.
[00:25:27.870] - Big Rich Klein
Absolutely. I'd love to visit.
[00:25:30.650] - Mark McMillin
Good museum.
[00:25:32.410] - Big Rich Klein
So, you were in the buggy. How many overalls you had in the buggy? Was that two of them. Two of the five?
[00:25:42.770] - Mark McMillin
No, all five.
[00:25:43.840] - Big Rich Klein
All five in buggy. Okay.
[00:25:45.200] - Mark McMillin
Yeah. I didn't do very well in the trophy truck. I only raced a trophy truck for about five years, maybe. Think of when I built my geyser. I think I built my geyser in 2007, something like that. 2007. And then I raced it through 2014.
[00:26:12.250] - Big Rich Klein
Okay.
[00:26:13.100] - Mark McMillin
But I never won in a trophy truck. I don't think I wanted to drive them as fast as you needed to.
[00:26:26.670] - Big Rich Klein
What do you think was the cause of that? Or what do you think kept you from doing that?
[00:26:34.370] - Mark McMillin
I don't know. A little bit of fear, I guess.
[00:26:39.890] - Big Rich Klein
Fear is not a bad thing, but fear.
[00:26:43.180] - Mark McMillin
But holy shit, you'd say I'd be going for all more than someone to pass me or something. But then a lot of times, I was never the fastest guy in a buggy, either. But I always found the finish line. But the trophy trucks, Luke's got it wired. I think Daniel has a little bit of what I had. He's a great driver, but he's just not on the edge. Luke is, and Andy is. My brother was always faster than me from one section to another, but I tend to down the finish line. Next time, if you ever get a ride in a trophy truck, you'll see what I'm talking about.
[00:27:28.690] - Big Rich Klein
I only had a chance to ride in a pre runner, and that was the harbor Freight. That was the number two. Pistol Pete's pre runner got our chance to ride in that, but he threw that thing around like a madman.
[00:27:47.130] - Mark McMillin
Yeah, they're fun. Stereo, air conditioner, everything.
[00:27:50.730] - Big Rich Klein
Well, not his. It looked just like the race truck, but we called it harbor freight because it was pretty much built that way. Harbor freight.
[00:28:05.310] - Mark McMillin
Yeah. The pre runners are fun. Our pre runners are finely tuned. They're not like the race trucks at all, but they're comfort, and they go pretty good. So you can do a lot of scouting.
[00:28:18.840] - Big Rich Klein
Right.
[00:28:20.050] - Mark McMillin
And then we take the razors down, too. We'll take razors and pre runners, because a lot of times, the boys want to look around in a lot of detail. You can't stop those two wheel drive pre runners in a soft wash and turn around very easily. One out of four times, you're digging it out, right?
[00:28:39.290] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, because when you get into those soft areas, the areas that you know are going to turn into silt beds. You want to know the parameters, how far out from the main line, you might be able to take it.
[00:28:52.370] - Mark McMillin
Exactly right.
[00:28:56.590] - Big Rich Klein
So the buggies, they didn't go all class nine. You also were or class two or class one?
[00:29:05.490] - Mark McMillin
They were class one, class two for a long time. And like I said, the first herd of buggies we had were all genois. And then we Jim Co. We had a bunch of Jimco vehicles, a lot of buggies there. And then my dad had unique metal products, building a car. And then Chennawith actually copied that car because it was a one off car. It wasn't like a pirate thing, but we copied that car. And that's the car I have on my dad's that he raced last in September of five.
[00:29:42.430] - Big Rich Klein
Okay.
[00:29:42.960] - Mark McMillin
Then he passed. Unfortunately, he passed away twelve days later.
[00:29:48.430] - Big Rich Klein
Wow.
[00:29:49.570] - Mark McMillin
He had a heart attack. Had his last heart attack in that car. So that's where he wanted to be. That was his third one.
[00:30:00.930] - Big Rich Klein
Does it run in the family? Hopefully not.
[00:30:04.420] - Mark McMillin
No, I hope not. Get mine checked all the time. I'm a little heavy. Everybody's noticed that. Jokingly say I'm six or seven pounds overweight. Well, I'm like 50 or 60. That's my lifestyle.
[00:30:23.430] - Big Rich Klein
I wish I was only 50 or 60 overweight.
[00:30:28.190] - Mark McMillin
We're fine. Keep getting. Check us.
[00:30:33.900] - Big Rich Klein
Yes, that's it. That's it exactly.
[00:30:36.990] - Mark McMillin
You want to hit this proactively, not reactively. Yeah. We owned a lot of gym codes. I'm looking at the book here. I'll get you that tomorrow. And then we owned a lot of. As of 2014, we had had 40 race cars. Rich.
[00:30:56.230] - Big Rich Klein
40 race cars.
[00:30:57.420] - Mark McMillin
Wow. Not all at once.
[00:31:00.870] - Big Rich Klein
Well, no.
[00:31:02.390] - Mark McMillin
My mom asked me shortly after my father died, maybe in the next four or five months. We were sorting out stuff and my mom, me and my brother were with my mom and trying to explain her the business stuff. And she goes, how many race cars do you guys have? I put my hand up, I said, scott, hang on. I said, mom, what's the purpose of the question? I said, we usually race two. Just because we have five or six doesn't mean we're racing them all the time.
[00:31:31.140] - Big Rich Klein
Right. What was the guy from RPM? He'd get like eleven entries.
[00:31:39.650] - Mark McMillin
Matney? No, Justin Matney drove for him, but it was.
[00:31:47.030] - Big Rich Klein
So did Robbie. I can't remember. The guy's.
[00:31:51.990] - Mark McMillin
Me either. He's in the coal mining back in South Carolina or.
[00:31:57.510] - Big Rich Klein
Right. It was. It was interesting. Shelley was helping with registration of the new ownership for score with Roger and Elise.
[00:32:06.750] - Mark McMillin
Oh, really?
[00:32:07.820] - Big Rich Klein
She was working registration desk there and he came in to register and the girls were going to have him sign a release for each class and each car that he was registering.
[00:32:23.570] - Mark McMillin
Oh, really?
[00:32:24.450] - Big Rich Klein
And Shelley was like, just sign the one. We have it on file. We know that you're going to be in eleven different cars as the driver of record or something. So he either started or finished or at some point got in that car each time. Each one of those cars. That had to be a juggling show there.
[00:32:47.750] - Mark McMillin
Yeah. I can't think of his name. He's not racing too much right now, I don't think.
[00:32:51.880] - Big Rich Klein
No, I don't think so.
[00:32:53.340] - Mark McMillin
How do you spell Shelley? S-H-E-L-L-E-Y-E-Y.
[00:32:57.120] - Big Rich Klein
Yes.
[00:32:58.270] - Mark McMillin
I look forward to meeting her, too.
[00:33:01.070] - Big Rich Klein
She's a great lady. She changed my life, which was harvest.
[00:33:06.070] - Mark McMillin
She's a lady of a lot of good traits. And she can do accounting, she can do this, she can figure out green light. Shelley marketing.
[00:33:21.670] - Big Rich Klein
She likes to learn. So if there's a project out there that catches her eye, she's going to learn all about it. She's good that way. Really is. So let's get back into the racing. You get five overalls, all in the buggy class, and then you jump into the race truck.
[00:33:43.590] - Mark McMillin
Five overalls in 1000. But I want some other race, the Bob 500, a couple of times. But the granddaddy of all the races is the ball 1000. So I won that five out of eight years in the 80s. Overall, five out of eight.
[00:34:05.310] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. I was smooth and it was like what Rod hall always said is, you have to finish before you can finish first.
[00:34:19.030] - Mark McMillin
Well, he's a great man. He still is a good man because his legacy is living on through a couple of his sons and his wife and off road motorsports hall of Fame that he asked me to get involved with.
[00:34:34.490] - Big Rich Klein
And you got involved with that in 2015?
[00:34:39.290] - Mark McMillin
I'm going to guess yes. I don't know exact date, but that's about right. I think I've been chairman of the board for, it's got to be five or six years.
[00:34:49.790] - Big Rich Klein
Okay.
[00:34:50.620] - Mark McMillin
He called me one day and says, hey, Mark, you want to be the chairman of the board? You want to be the chairman of the off Road Motorsports hall of. I don't even. I'm aware of what you do, but I've never even been on the. I said, why don't you put me on the board for a year, then I'll give it serious consideration. And I joined the board, and I asked Frank D'Angelo, good friend, I said, I do this, you're going to hang around with me. He goes, yep. I said, ok, then. I'll do then. You know, Rod was getting sick and running out of energy, and I took a trip up to see him and his wife. When I wanted to start making some changes in these committees and stuff like that. He wasn't sure about it. He goes, I don't think I understand it. I said, well, I flew up to Reno and spent 3 hours with him. He goes, yep, that looks good. To think it's. I think we're doing good. Some. We need some more energy. High. Some more high energy board members like you and others. I'm going to try to add them.
[00:36:09.610] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. I have some ideas for you.
[00:36:11.960] - Mark McMillin
Yeah, I'm aware of that. I saw your email, and I think Emily would be good, too.
[00:36:19.290] - Big Rich Klein
I do.
[00:36:22.810] - Mark McMillin
Thought, I didn't know you could go on that. What's her rally called?
[00:36:28.100] - Big Rich Klein
The rebel.
[00:36:29.400] - Mark McMillin
I thought it was all women.
[00:36:30.850] - Big Rich Klein
It is, but I staff it. Me, Jimmy Lewis, myself. This last year, there was 128 competitors. I think it was, when you take, there was 62 cars, 124 competitors. So a driver, navigator, 62 teams, and the staff was one to one. So we had like 126 or 130 staff members from photographers, mechanics, fueling, medical staff, course officials.
[00:37:13.970] - Mark McMillin
Did you meet the lady that does massages in Glamis?
[00:37:18.070] - Big Rich Klein
No, I did not meet the ladies that did that. No.
[00:37:24.770] - Mark McMillin
She gives me massages about every three or four weeks, and I introduced her to Emily.
[00:37:29.980] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, excellent. Okay. Yeah, Emily's a little powerhouse.
[00:37:35.370] - Mark McMillin
Yes, she is.
[00:37:37.110] - Big Rich Klein
And I think she'd be good on the board. The other one that I've been talking to that seems like he'd be interested, and I'd like you to talk to him is Lonnie McCurry Jr. From skyjacker suspensions.
[00:37:49.050] - Mark McMillin
Ronnie or Lonnie?
[00:37:50.450] - Big Rich Klein
Lonnie with an l. His dad started it over 50 years ago, and so they're a heritage company at that, and it's three generations. Lonnie Jr. Is the one I'm talking about. I'd say he's probably late fifty s for thereabouts.
[00:38:11.480] - Mark McMillin
Yeah, that's a big company, I think hear about it, but I don't really know.
[00:38:17.070] - Big Rich Klein
Kurt la Duke has done a lot of work with them, and.
[00:38:21.730] - Mark McMillin
Good.
[00:38:22.280] - Big Rich Klein
So, on the racing, what do you attribute to your personal success in the race car?
[00:38:35.130] - Mark McMillin
Hard work and dedication to it. Once I take something on, I like to work hard on it, study it, study about it, and that's pre running. But it's not just pre running. Now we sit and look at google earth for hours and hours because we have it right. And putting a good team together. I got seven guys that work for me in my race shop. And the chemistry is not always right. It never will be when we had 1200 people building homes. But I work really hard to make sure everybody knows their job, does their job, give them the best tools to do so. I got good equipment coming out of my shop. I've got good knowledge coming into the race or pre running because I've worked hard at it. And then we learn from what we do right and we learn from what we do wrong. And I think Luke and Daniel are doing the same thing right now. I know for a fact they are. They work hard at it.
[00:39:44.830] - Big Rich Klein
And what is Macy's? Has she raced at all or is she doing something? What does she do?
[00:39:52.340] - Mark McMillin
My daughter, she's the middle child. Macy's 35 years old, 34, and she has cerebral palsy. Okay. But yes. So when you get this book tomorrow or in a couple of days, she has ridden with me in one of my pre run trucks and we put her in the truck. We have to lift her in and we put her feet in a foam block because she can't control her legs.
[00:40:21.890] - Big Rich Klein
Right.
[00:40:22.680] - Mark McMillin
She rides with me and loves it because I got three or four guys chasing me. She loves it, loves it, loves it, loves it. Awesome. Won't fly in an airplane, but she'll drive a race. She'll get in a race car with us.
[00:40:36.270] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. Okay.
[00:40:38.510] - Mark McMillin
Yeah. And her brothers take good care of her. Well, she's getting ready to have her 35th birthday. There you go. Perfect. Next couple of weeks. Yeah, but she's ridden with me. You'll see her in the book, but when you see her there now, you'll know a little more about her.
[00:40:52.160] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent.
[00:40:52.910] - Mark McMillin
Cool.
[00:40:54.390] - Big Rich Klein
And what is your legacy, do you think? What are you leaving behind that people can look to?
[00:41:09.990] - Mark McMillin
Good people, like all three of my kids and two of their spouses, and so far their kids, they're just good citizens. They know how to work, they know how to help people, but yet they know how to not let people take advantage of them. So I've taught them everything I can. And then you give them a leg up ahead. You got to have a head start in this world a little bit, as tough as it is right now, but they've been given all the tools to be good citizens.
[00:41:49.920] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent.
[00:41:52.470] - Mark McMillin
And they're great pickers of friends and I think that says a lot about an individual.
[00:41:58.650] - Big Rich Klein
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:42:01.450] - Mark McMillin
They're great pickers of friends.
[00:42:06.910] - Big Rich Klein
And I know that you received an award from score on this last season at the season awards for score. And can you talk about that a little?
[00:42:19.550] - Mark McMillin
Was I was tipped off by Luke, who was tipped off by Jose G. That they wanted to give me person of the year. And I said, yeah, I'll go to the awards. I said, what's this all about? He goes, well, they think you went above and beyond to help a young man by the name of Cade Walker, who was the seven x in the baja 1000. And we did everything we could that day, all night long. Got him eventually on my airplane, four in the morning in San Felipe, and he was out cold. But I think we helped save his life, as well as the Honda team and many other people. But I heard of that situation. I got a call from Scott stuck because, mark, you got a pit out at 680 or 860? I said, yes, I do. He goes, there's a biker down 2 miles from him because they saw his tracker wasn't working and all that sort of stuff. And then his guys were out there. His guys were actually out there helping, budding up next to my pit. They were using our starlink to track the bike. Then they went back and found him.
[00:43:39.070] - Mark McMillin
He was out cold. Their razor broke down, tried to get him out of there. So my buddy helped him with his raptor, and then Honda sent a raptor in. Then they transferred him into that raptor, and then that raptor got stuck. I mean, it was an ordeal, but we got him out to the pavement and got him in an ambulance, and 3 hours later, he got on the airplane and flew back to San Diego. And he was actually in my race shop two weeks ago, came down to see me.
[00:44:09.190] - Big Rich Klein
That's awesome.
[00:44:10.470] - Mark McMillin
And he's doing well, but it's a good story. But we've done that for a lot of people over the 40 years, as well as many other teams. I know Steve Menzies has stopped his helicopter. I've stopped my. Well, I've stopped the helicopter to help bikers down. I got out of the helicopter once because there was a helicopter that was down, and we hauled them out, but they weren't hurt, but just got to help each other. And I think this off road racing fraternity is 99% cut. People are cut from that cloth. That's the award I got. So when you come see me, I'll show it to you.
[00:45:01.360] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. Have you received any other awards like that in your life of racing or something along? Maybe not along the same lines, but any other awards?
[00:45:14.170] - Mark McMillin
Yes, but I need to take a walk outside to look at vic checkers. Is it checkers or fair that does the Vic vanilla award that I don't know. Yeah, it's one of those. And my dad received it. I also received it. And for just helping out people, I guess. But we do what we do because of who we are. I don't do it for the awards.
[00:45:45.350] - Big Rich Klein
Right.
[00:45:45.920] - Mark McMillin
My dad received a lot of awards in his lifetime in the business that he was in because of what he did for the communities. And he was coached heavily by my mom, but he always did the right thing. And then we ended up having my dad's service on the flight deck of the USS Midway because we didn't know what to expect and we ended up with 3000 people. Wow. My dad was part of the group that the business people from San Diego that brought that ship out of mothballs into San Diego and made a museum out of.
[00:46:30.510] - Big Rich Klein
The. That's quite the recognition.
[00:46:34.610] - Mark McMillin
It really is.
[00:46:35.810] - Big Rich Klein
And a statement to who your father was to have that many people show up.
[00:46:40.920] - Mark McMillin
Did you meet my dad rich?
[00:46:42.370] - Big Rich Klein
No, never had the chance.
[00:46:46.870] - Mark McMillin
You'd remember him because he's one of a kind. I'm very fortunate.
[00:46:59.450] - Big Rich Klein
And what do you think with the driving factor for the hall of Fame is why should people get involved?
[00:47:14.110] - Mark McMillin
Well, I should be able to quote our mission statement, but I can't. But generally, we're trying to preserve all the history of the off road Motorsports hall of Fame. And that's not only some racers, some famous cars, but it's people who, the journalists, like Judy Smith and all the people that help keep parts of this country open so that people, the advocate land use advocates, because a lot of times people don't know what they do, but they're helping advocate to keep public lands for public use. And that goes unnoticed a lot of times in our building industry association, I try to get all of our subcontractors to help us support know with political issues and ballot initiatives and stuff. And I said, what's this going to do for me? What are they doing? I said it's all the stuff they're doing that you don't hear about killing bad bills. And I know there's a lot of people like Bob Hamm and a lot of other people, the blue ribbon Coalition and our late great friend with Corva. I can't think of his name. He's a hall of famer. He works so hard up in the high desert keeping those trails open.
[00:49:01.490] - Mark McMillin
Ed Waldheim. Ed Waldheim, right. Great man. So the off road motorsports hall of Fame is about more than just the racers. It's about the promoters, the journalists, the land use advocates, companies like off road warehouse and four wheel park and BF Goodrich and the Tread lightly program. We're trying to keep history of what's happened and acknowledge those people who have made a difference. Long story short.
[00:49:43.790] - Big Rich Klein
Perfect.
[00:49:47.710] - Mark McMillin
That's my two cent. I didn't even have a cheat sheet on that. Damn it. You don't have to cheat on shit you really care about.
[00:49:57.200] - Big Rich Klein
True.
[00:49:58.450] - Mark McMillin
Because come from the heart. That's the best way. My dad used to say, I'm glad I'm not a liar. He goes, it's a full time job, remember? What should I made up if I was a liar?
[00:50:12.550] - Big Rich Klein
That's very true.
[00:50:15.210] - Mark McMillin
The truth is never a problem.
[00:50:17.290] - Big Rich Klein
Exactly. I've tried to live by that. Because if you lie, you get caught in it eventually.
[00:50:25.850] - Mark McMillin
Yeah. You get spun in circles on your own shit.
[00:50:29.270] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. True enough. So, is there anything else that we haven't discussed that you'd like to talk know? We've done the hall, we've done the family. Done some makes.
[00:50:44.220] - Mark McMillin
What makes mark my family?
[00:50:47.840] - Big Rich Klein
Family.
[00:50:49.010] - Mark McMillin
I'm about family every day and making sure that my kids are doing the right thing and enjoying my wife, C. Anne. C, apostrophe capital a, N. And we've been married 37 years. And we went to the river Friday morning, and we came back this morning and just trying to spend more and more time with her. And I always told my kids, even when I. When they were six and seven and 20, and now they're thirty s. I said, don't you ever get between me and your mom. I said, because she was here before you got here. I'm going to spend the entire time I spend with you with her, and I'm going to be with her when you leave. So don't try to screw this up.
[00:51:37.650] - Big Rich Klein
Right.
[00:51:39.010] - Mark McMillin
Just stay true to myself and true to my family.
[00:51:45.430] - Big Rich Klein
And that makes you the person that you are.
[00:51:48.220] - Mark McMillin
That sounds corny, but that's who I am. Yep. And I like my friends, and I keep good friends.
[00:51:55.350] - Big Rich Klein
That's important.
[00:51:56.650] - Mark McMillin
Including you. I like people.
[00:52:02.730] - Big Rich Klein
Well, Mark, I want to say thank you so much for spending the time on this phone call. I know we've talked on the phone quite a bit, or Zoom calls and that kind of stuff with hall business, but this was a little different, more personal. And I hope it brought some insight to others about Mark McMillin.
[00:52:21.390] - Mark McMillin
Well, rich, I appreciate that very much. And I think what you and Shelly are doing well, this is your podcast, but you and Shelley sound like you're a good team. And I appreciate you interviewing me today, and I hope it helps other people realize that the offroad motorsports hall of Fame is worth supporting and that hopefully more people can try to be good people in this world.
[00:52:56.750] - Big Rich Klein
I agree. Absolutely.
[00:53:00.430] - Mark McMillin
All right, well, is that a wrap?
[00:53:02.730] - Big Rich Klein
That's a wrap.
[00:53:04.270] - Mark McMillin
Did I do okay?
[00:53:05.410] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, you did great.
[00:53:06.880] - Mark McMillin
I like doing good.
[00:53:09.330] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent.
[00:53:10.010] - Mark McMillin
You did these to get degrees, but I wanted at least an a minus today.
[00:53:16.130] - Big Rich Klein
I don't give grades.
[00:53:18.690] - Mark McMillin
Thank you for putting this off. I had a hell of a head cold last week or two weeks ago whenever it was.
[00:53:23.770] - Big Rich Klein
Right. No worries.
[00:53:26.470] - Mark McMillin
Okay, buddy. Take care.
[00:53:27.740] - Big Rich Klein
All right. Talk to you tomorrow. All right. You take care. Bye bye. Well, that's another episode of conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message and let me know any ideas that you have or if there's anybody that you have that you would think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.