International Off-Road Trainer, Chris Walker, on Episode 227

Whitewater to Off-road, the background of our guests is always fascinating. Join Rich and Chris Walker from Overland Training Canada for more adventure on Episode 227. Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

4:51 – very quickly, I found my passion was the outdoors – mountaineering, kayaking, flying, diving, caving and what have you 

12:34– Gosh, I hurt myself a lot, nearly died a couple of times             

17:37 – I’m not doing what I’m doing without their grit and determination to kick me into shape to be a good off-road driving instructor

25:14 – just jump out right here, grab your stuff, someone will come get you – I’m literally in the middle of nowhere, there’s no one in sight, I have no cell service and no idea where I am 

37:36 – that’s a really hard question, I’ve never found a concise answer…

55:01 – I’ve been doing a lot with a big expedition called the Transglobal Car Expedition

Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.

Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

[00:00:01.040] - Big Rich Klein

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:46.560] - Big Rich Klein

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[00:01:13.030] - Big Rich Klein

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[00:01:40.090] - Big Rich Klein

On this episode of Conversations with Big Rich is Chris Walker. Chris went from being a canoeing and kayaking instructor in the UK to working with the Land Rover experience, then to creating a company called Overland Training Canada, which is a Canadian-based company that provides mobility training for the commercial, industrial, and recreational sector. Hello, Chris Walker. Good to have you on this. We've talked about it a couple of times, and here you are.

[00:02:10.800] - Chris Walker

Good afternoon, Rich. Yeah, great to talk to you, and finally, we made it happen. Thank you.

[00:02:15.600] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. So let everybody know Chris Walker works on the Rebelle as part of the staff with Shelley and I and 124 others. But Chris is a good guy. He's got quite the background in history, so we're going to dive right into that right now. And so Chris.

[00:02:40.210] - Chris Walker

Sounds good.

[00:02:41.040] - Big Rich Klein

Tell me where you were born and raised.

[00:02:44.700] - Chris Walker

Well, despite my accent, it's a little mongrel. I was born and raised in the UK. I grew up, most of my childhood being a school and educated and growing up there. And I moved to British Columbia, Canada, in 2006, along a varied journey of travel and exploration and work across the world.

[00:03:12.590] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. So what part of the UK I'm assuming England.

[00:03:18.650] - Chris Walker

Yeah, I mean, that's where I spend a lot of my time schooling. My mom's side of my family is from Wales, and then my dad's side has a long history in England and Scotland. My parents live in South Wales. The vast majority of the rest of my relatives live up in Scotland, up towards Edinburgh there. I was schooled really Central England on the edge of the Cotswold, and then up towards North Wales in a small old Roman city called Chester. Then I moved on to North Wales, where I really started my career and my love and for the outdoors there.

[00:04:04.620] - Big Rich Klein

Going to school, I know Canada has… The school system is fairly close to what the United States is. I would imagine the UK is not too much different, but what studies did you have besides English reading and mathematics, that stuff? The usual stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:31.460] - Chris Walker

I mean, normal education, although I guess it tailored it into something a little bit more specific, I was very lucky. I ended up in the middle of my schooling, and just through the nature of my parents having to move around for work, I ended up in a boarding school, which maybe some of the listeners might kill their heads or bulk of that, but honestly, it was one of the best experiences of my life. And what that did for me is it gave me lots of opportunities to to enjoy extracurricular activities. So things like the Boy Scouts, the Cub Scouts, the Cadets, the Come On Cadets there. And very quickly, I found that my passion really was the outdoors, mountaineering, kayaking, flying, diving, caving, and what have you. And the way the UK education system works is, or at the time, was as you get older towards high school, you can start to specify a little more on some of the subjects that you might interested in that would help you to gain entry into the university or universities of your choice. So I quickly realized through being a competitive swimmer, competitive rower, competitive kayaker, that I wanted to work in the outdoor education industry as a high-level coach or instructor.

[00:05:49.110] - Chris Walker

So I took subjects that guided me towards a university degree in sports science and performance coaching. Once I completed that degree, that led me to North Wales, where I spent lots of my time competing, exploring, kayaking, climbing, all that stuff. And really, that was the love of my outdoors. That then moved to explore in the world in a kayak, whitewater kayak, looking at a sense of rivers. I'm part of, I guess, the vehicle association here, because that's what we're really here to talk about, is through some of those explorations, we'd use vehicles interesting vehicles to get to interesting places to go kayak those rivers. I lived in Iceland for two years. I lived in Norway for two years. Iceland's a good example in terms of my first real interaction with interesting vehicles was with people like Arctic Trucks, Emil Grimson and Torffy, and those people using vehicles to cross the glaciers and the ice caps and the mountains to get to interesting rivers. If I went back a stage I grew up in a family that was very much focused on doing well at school, doing well at extracurricular activities, but also earning a living, having a great upbringing.

[00:07:13.920] - Chris Walker

One of the things that I did as a youngster was we lived near a famous town called Stratford, Ponthaven, of the Shakespeare history. We lived right next door to an Arable and a dairy farm, owned by a school friend of mine. I would hop the fence after school, walk across the field, and then end up working on the farm as a 11, 12, 13, 14-year-old, helping milk cows, driving tractors. And the very first vehicle that I remember driving was the little Series 1 Landrover that wasn't licensed or registered. It was in too poor of a shape to be on the road anymore. But I remember Mr. Hall or Farmer Hall would take me out in this little Landrover I could barely see over the steering wheel. There's old straight-cut gears and an interesting little car to learn on. But that's really where my love of travel and vehicles came from. I then carried on traveling with that exploration of kayaking, but I decided I wanted to move to Canada for a variety of reasons, basically bigger mountains, bigger rivers, bigger terrain. I moved in '06, still working in outdoor education as a performance coach. I then started to work in Whistler, where I'd moved to, working with snowcats, snowmobiles, ATVs, all that stuff.

[00:08:43.640] - Chris Walker

So my motorized interest started to get peaked more, especially as my body was getting a little sorer. For those high-level sports, I wasn't able to perform as well as I used to. I was getting a little older, a little more worn, a few more injuries. So I started to look at other avenues I owned a couple of snowmobiles. I ended up working and still do with the mountain there, driving snowcat, teaching group of snowcat. But my first real association of two off-roading was with a Landrover trip. Landrover did a large press event, dinner training, launch for the then Range Rover Evoke, based out of Vancouver and Whistler. They came for a couple of weeks, I think it was, and they did trips up and down the corridor, culminating in a trip all the way up Blackcomb Mountain, the snow and the ice. In these cars, a lot of interesting people. And I was the liaison for Whistler Blackcomb and Jaguar Landrover, North America, who was conducting that program.

[00:09:52.520] - Big Rich Klein

Let's look at some of the early stuff. First of all, you said you swam competitively as a youngster? Yes. What distances or stroke did you swim?

[00:10:05.870] - Chris Walker

Oh, gosh. That's a good question. It's a long time ago now. 50 meters, 100 meters, freestyle and a fly, and then 50 and 100 relay.

[00:10:17.440] - Big Rich Klein

You were one of those prima donna sprinters. You were a prima donna sprinter, huh?

[00:10:24.720] - Chris Walker

Yes, I definitely was. I was a little youngster back then, although one of my My secret passions during training was definitely distance swimming. I think we did a day, it was a very random story where I swam for something like 18 hours straight as a challenge in the local local school pool. But yeah, definitely a short-course swimmer at the time. Okay.

[00:10:46.670] - Big Rich Klein

That was a long distance swimmer, so I had to ask.

[00:10:50.020] - Chris Walker

Oh, cool. Oh, right on. That's awesome.

[00:10:51.350] - Big Rich Klein

And then I wanted to get into the... You got into kayaking, and then I know that you did guided kayak trips and stuff?

[00:11:02.320] - Chris Walker

Yes. I mean, that was really my ultimate love of sport. That's where I performed the highest, but that's where I traveled the most. So UK has a great history of adventure education through the school system. So I quickly became engrossed in canoeing, kayaking. My parents sent me away to an adventure camp known by a company called PGL, effectively known by the kids as Parents Get Lost. It was like a week camp. Kids Only. I think that trip we kayaked the length of the River Y, which was really pretty. And then I quickly found out that I was really interested in whitewater kayaking and grew through the ranks in terms of ability, and became an instructor, and then a really high-level instructor. I worked at three national centers of excellence, the National Whitewater Sports Center, the National Whiteswater Sports Center, and then the National Manteeering Center teaching people to kayak, like relationally, and kayak as a... Or learn how to be instructed. And that led me all over the world, like I said. So lots of first ascent. I was a pro-kyaker for a long time, sponsored by a couple of car companies. At the time of my life, traveling the world, living on next to nothing, but seeing amazing places and amazing rivers.

[00:12:23.990] - Big Rich Klein

See, that's the stuff that... Those are good stories. I know we'll get into the automotive stuff, but those are Those are the things that build that background.

[00:12:34.140] - Chris Walker

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, there's... Gosh, I probably hurt myself a lot, nearly died a couple of times. And then I was finding out when I moved to BC that I was trying to push myself and my body wasn't necessarily cutting the check for me to make those moves on the river to survive. So I had a couple of big crashes and burns. Almost had a really big one in Norway when I lived there. That was probably my scariest swim I pulled out on the concert and all sorts of stuff. But as they say, you dust yourself off and get back to it when you love that activity so much. Right.

[00:13:13.600] - Big Rich Klein

And then So you were from the kayaking and canoeing, then you moved to BC. That was the main reason?

[00:13:28.410] - Chris Walker

Yeah. It it was, really. My parents lived in Toronto. It's a funny story. My parents lived in Toronto for a while. I was conceived in Toronto, born in UK. So I had this—it sounds funny, but I had this little secret affiliation with Canada, but I wanted to explore it more. So I came over in 2003, did a whole lot of exploring, and fell in love with the place. Being a Commonwealth country, the process with the certification education that I had, it was fairly straightforward to emigrate here. And now I'm a dual citizen, but it allowed me to expand my horizons on bigger terrain, day in, day out, bigger rivers, bigger mountains, skiing, all the things, really. So more of a lifestyle choice, more than anything.

[00:14:18.550] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And schooling, did you... Higher education, did you get beyond, what do you guys call it, primary?

[00:14:29.950] - Chris Walker

Yeah. No, it was primary, secondary. I ended up with a degree in Sport, Science, and Performance Coaching at the University of Liverpool in Chester. So I went right through to my degree. Okay, great.

[00:14:42.850] - Big Rich Klein

And so then you find yourself in in BC or Whistler. Whistler is in... Is it in BC or is it in Alberta?

[00:14:52.880] - Chris Walker

Yeah, no, Western British... No, Western British, Colombia. So just north of Vancouver, in about three hours west of Colona, where we just did Canada trials there. Right.

[00:15:04.420] - Big Rich Klein

When we were talking about the highways, the US, we have our highways go up the mountains, and we'll work our way around up the mountains. We just don't go straight. But Canada doesn't want to lay any concrete or asphalt. So you guys just start at the bottom of the hill. Oh, there's the top, and you just go straight up.

[00:15:28.470] - Chris Walker

Yeah, more or less. I mean, we're I mean, the US is a massive country, but Canada is a huge country. Absolutely. So we don't have the resources that you guys do. So the more smart we are with our resources, I think, the better. But that's a byproduct of that.

[00:15:44.090] - Big Rich Klein

Just straight up the mountain. No switchbacks. We're very few. Right on. Just straight up the mountain.

[00:15:48.720] - Chris Walker

Exactly. Yeah.

[00:15:52.130] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, man. It was fine. It would have been better if I wasn't towing a trailer. But that's...

[00:15:57.920] - Chris Walker

Yeah, exactly. And the family and all stuff. Yeah, I hear you. That's a big old haul up over those two pieces of road that you drove on.

[00:16:06.220] - Big Rich Klein

Yes, that was. And I wanted to go through Banff and Whistler on the way home and then come down and catch the 15, where we call the 15. I don't know what highway it is, but catch it there in somewhere, I don't know where your transcontinental interstate catches that highway that comes up. But I mean, somewhere between Lethbridge and Calgary, I guess.

[00:16:34.270] - Chris Walker

Oh, I have a bike right here in National Park. Yeah.

[00:16:36.360] - Big Rich Klein

I wanted to come. That was going to be my first plan. Then after spending a day driving to Kelowna like we did. There was no way I was turning around and going back north to catch the transcontinental again. So it was like, All right, we'll just head-send. Yeah, that makes sense. You're You get into your EpiWhistler, you get into doing things with the vehicles, and how did it expand from there?

[00:17:09.620] - Chris Walker

I ended up being part of what's known as the Land Driver Experience mobile team for North America, and that's an amazing group of off-road driving instructors that predominantly work for LandRover. I mean, these are all like icons. Camel Trophy, ladies and gentlemen, who are really synonymous with vehicle exploration and vehicle competitions from way back in the day.

[00:17:33.920] - Big Rich Klein

Guys that like to use their winches.

[00:17:37.430] - Chris Walker

Yes, that's it. We're in the middle of a jungle on roads that are barely possible. Big convoys of older land rovers and all the equipment and the mechanics and the press guys. Bob Burns, Fred Monzies, Jim Sweat, Jim West, Tom Collins, the names go on and on and on. So I spent lots of time with them, and they were really amazing, amazing, amazing role models. I mean, in reality, I'm not doing what I'm doing without their grit and determination to kick me into shape to be a good off-road driving instructor. So I spent lots of time with them on Landrover drive programs across North America and Canada. I then, because I can't sit still and I like to also do things for myself, I saw a niche in in terms of commercial training presenting itself predominantly in Canada, where lots of workplaces were looking at using or use four-wheel drive vehicles with some description to work on the forest service road, the resource road, the mine road, whatever it might be. So I saw this niche, and I created a company to service that niche. And really, it tied into my background of education in UK as part of this degree.

[00:19:00.310] - Chris Walker

We look at a lot of occupational health and safety training. And that's really where the UK almost leads the world for the good or better of the workplace safety stuff. I saw that niche and I started my own company. And now we're the largest company in Canada, probably one of the larger ones in the continent, delivering training predominantly for industry. We're 19 instructors each day. We teach commercial industrial four by four driving from light to heavy duty vehicles, snowmails, snowcats, ATVs, UTVs, anything that's off-highway industry-based. But we still work with a small amount of recreational folk who want to learn how to use their Orphan Jeep car, or whatever it might be to go and explore the place.

[00:19:52.580] - Big Rich Klein

And the name of that company is?

[00:19:56.700] - Chris Walker

Overland Training Canada. Okay.

[00:19:59.920] - Big Rich Klein

Overland Training Canada.

[00:20:04.060] - Chris Walker

Yeah, and that's really how I got involved with Emily and the Rebell through a variety of different programs. I met Emily at the BC Overland Rally, oh, gosh, eight, nine years ago, thereabouts. I keep my eye to the ground listening and watching what people are doing. I saw these amazing women doing this education at the BC Overland Rally, or the Northwest Overland Rally, maybe, in Washington there. I expressed an interest to Emily, and she tilmed her head and was like, No way, how is that? Not until I stressed you out and figured out who you are and where you're coming on and slowly over, you know how it goes, right? Over a couple of years of me earning her trust, she slowly decided to bring me into the fold. And as you know, the rest is history.

[00:20:55.740] - Big Rich Klein

Actually, it was easy for me, but it was Probably. But it was. It was Shelle. The whole how we got involved with the rebel is Shelle saw that this event was coming up, and she wanted to compete in it. So she was doing all this research in it. And And then when it finally opened up, she looked at what was needed to compete. And she says, Well, I drive a lot off road, but I'm not the driver. We're off road a lot, but she doesn't drive. I do all the driving. So then she thought, okay, well, what about navigating? And then she looked at it and was like, and really looking at her skillset, she would have had to really put some training into it, and it was not be able to get on the event the first year because she didn't have those skills yet. And so she goes, well, Rich, you know Emily, right? Well, I knew Emily originally because she raced for Rod Hall or with Rod Hall. Yeah. And Rod raced in the Vora Series, which I owned back in the early 2000s. And then- Right. So then we started working together as well.

[00:22:14.300] - Big Rich Klein

I was running one of the trails for Dave Cole at King of the Hammers at that point, and she was doing the media, so she would bring people up to to to to to to to to because that was a really good area to watch the race. And so she did be introducing me to all these important people to Dave, whether they were off-road racers or marketing partners or politicians. And so then I could explain to them what was going on at that part of the race course, but also explain what was going on racing-wise. And she brought... She was doing this one day, and she had been bringing people up all day long, and she brought up Ricky Johnson. And Ricky and I go back quite a few years, and Ricky goes, Oh, Big Rich. How's it going? It gives me this big hug. And all of a sudden, she put Rich Klein and Big Rich together, and she goes, Oh, my God. You used to own Vora, and I raced the series with Rod Hall. And I was like, Yeah, you did. And she was like, Oh, my God. So a couple of years of that, And then when I called her to say, Hey, you know, Shelle and I'd like to volunteer.

[00:23:37.920] - Big Rich Klein

And she was like, Really? Okay. You know. But it was the first year. Yeah. So it was She was looking for people that with experience. So, and at that point, I'd probably put on 350 plus events. So it was, she trusted me at that point. So we got on as a staff for it. We didn't have to go through a vetting process. We got lucky.

[00:24:03.740] - Chris Walker

I'm glad I went through the vetting process. I think for me, it was worthwhile because I don't come from that race background. For that author, my social background, it was good to learn some humility in the direction that the rebel takes and how she wants people to act and behave. I'm thankful they were put through the test there because it was more rewarding, and I know I can do a better job because of it. Yeah, it's good.

[00:24:34.750] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I don't know if I can do a good job, though.

[00:24:38.100] - Chris Walker

You guys are like the king of sweep there. I love listening and watching and learning from you guys. So it definitely puts a smile on my face every day. I mean, there's so many fun stories from behind the scenes on that whole program, as you know better than anyone else.

[00:24:55.430] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Yeah, there's some good stories out there, that's for sure.

[00:25:00.250] - Chris Walker

So let's- Did you hear about the- What's that? I was just on that note, just real quick. On that note, just real quick. Do you hear about the story about how I got on course for the first time?

[00:25:10.560] - Big Rich Klein

No, I do not know that. Let's hear it.

[00:25:14.390] - Chris Walker

Yeah, It's a classic Emily. She told me where to be, when, what flights to bring. I jump on a flight down to LA, I get picked up by a nice lady who I can't remember. Jump in a car, I have no idea where I'm going. I've my travel bag, a little laptop bag, and I'm just wearing some outdoor clothes. She takes me out across the mountains, across the desert, wherever it was, and we pull off the highway, this little parking lot, which I now know where it was. Five minutes later, I'm becomes bounding over in Princess, her car of that competition that year. Jump in it, so much stuff in the back. Off we go, out into this OHV area, I have no idea where I'm at because we've got no cell service. We're driving along just chit-chatting, and she's obviously busy. The course radio is going. The competition radio is going, I should say. They say, Oh, I've got to run in there. Jump out right here. Grab your stuff. Someone will come and get you. I'm like, Okay. I grab my bag, I stand out there. I'm literally in the middle of the toy tree.

[00:26:22.270] - Chris Walker

There's no one else in sight. I have no cell service. I have no idea where I'm at. I'm standing there for, I know, 10, 15 minutes, twiddling my thumbs. Like, okay, what do I do? I'm literally in my airport bag and my laptop bag, twiddling my thumbs. I think it was Chris Wu, who comes down the course, and I'd never met him. I've heard of him. Comes down in his big truck and was like, Hey, what are you doing here? I'm like, I'm here with the rebel. I don't know what I'm doing. Emily just dropped me off. She was like, You should probably get into the truck and take your face camp or we'll look after you. She dropped me off in Dove Spring, right in the middle there, out the back. I had no idea what I was doing. That was my introduction to the Rebell on my first year whenever it was, six or seven years ago.

[00:27:14.110] - Big Rich Klein

Dove Spring is... You're out in the middle of nowhere.

[00:27:19.300] - Chris Walker

Yeah, it's great. I love it there. I now know it really well. But as someone who's never really spent much time in the desert at that point, literally my airport bag and my laptop bag and not a lot else, twiddling my thumbs in the middle.

[00:27:31.640] - Big Rich Klein

And no service. Oh, hey, gee.

[00:27:34.180] - Chris Walker

No service. I'm clearly out of place. So that was quickly quick.

[00:27:40.100] - Big Rich Klein

And knowing how Emily is with sunglasses and other items, her phone, that thing. She could have forgotten all about you at that point.

[00:27:49.420] - Chris Walker

I think she probably had. She probably told someone, Hey, I'll just drop this guy here. Can someone grab him? And woo and be diligent. She was probably like, Hey, I'm actually going that way. I'll go grab him. Before someone forgets about him.

[00:28:04.260] - Big Rich Klein

That's awesome. So then your training, what training do you do with these, like the industrial? I understand the driving is what all is involved.

[00:28:22.130] - Chris Walker

Well, so really it's looking at taking someone who works in the workplace, be it on a regular gravel road to a more complex or more challenging road, using 4x4 through to pick up, lightweight pick up, through to heavy GT pickup, pick up to the trailer, tandem axel, quad axel, all sorts of interesting vehicles. And really, when a big organization, let's say an oil and gas company has a huge fleet of vehicles, their primary cause or primary workplace-related incident, their to equipment, vehicles, infrastructure, or people, is typically caused or related to driving. So a lot of big companies these days are looking at driver training to try and reduce some of those risks. Most of the courses are fairly straightforward. If we ran a course through with you and Jimmy and Lou and a couple of others, you guys would be tilting their heads like, Okay, we know all this stuff. But it's really just trying to put the skills that they already have tidy them up to workplace vehicles and the regulations around things like OSHA and WorkSafe. C and Health and Safety to try to get their skills up so there's less chance of having accidents or injuries or damage.

[00:29:45.400] - Chris Walker

If you look at, we just finished one project with 1100 people on one single training project where they were looking at their biggest core. The concern, their biggest incident was when people When people were parking their vehicles with a pickup truck and people would back in for the very structures that they were trying to build, like multi-billion dollar structures for this big project, they're trying to reduce those things happen. So we go in, we evaluate what they're doing in the workplace, and we then tailor the training to really fit what they're doing to reduce those things. That could be just as simple as seat belt regulations, how and when to put the vehicle into four by four, how to control the vehicles from throttle to break to steering, how to get out and spot, how to negotiate water bars, how to load and tie down your equipment, how to use radios, how not to get tired, how to be mindful in the cab when you've got a driver and maybe a set of patterns, all those things, really, through to really challenging terrain where you're pushing the limit of an industrial work vehicle as opposed to a built Jeep or Toyota or something.

[00:31:07.460] - Chris Walker

That's vehicles that are bought straight out the factory. Very little modification other than a good set of tires. So trying to understand how to drive those vehicles in more challenging terrain. And then get home at the end of the day and not be a jaw on the rescue services or the health services or the fleet services, that stuff. And imagine a company that's running, say, a thousand trucks on one project, the less downtime they have, the less injury they have, the better it is for the whole organization, the whole project. But really, that's where it's at. And that transfers across to APV, UTV, Snowmill and Snowcap. All the same deal, really.

[00:31:48.980] - Big Rich Klein

Because the companies have those vehicles as well, especially working up in Canada or the Yukon.

[00:31:56.390] - Chris Walker

Exactly. Every organization does things or has slightly different requirements for those types of vehicles. But yeah, it's a pretty wide range, especially if you look from, say, the forest industry in BC through to, say, the petroleum industry on the north slope of Alaska through to an oil and gas pipeline coming down through central Canada. I mean, it's far and wide, the mining industry, the resource sector, farming industries also. It's pretty spectrum of everyday users using everyday vehicles for their workplace.

[00:32:35.790] - Big Rich Klein

Cool. Have you personally competed in any event, vehicle-wise?

[00:32:43.850] - Chris Walker

I have not. I would like to one day, but I don't know what that looks like. The ALCAN looks really interesting for me. I guess it's probably harder for someone like me in terms of trying to find the the time, the money, the experience to find a niche to get into something that I could dive into. My problem is once I get, because I have a little bit of a competitive nature from my younger background, is if I get into something, I'm going to want to go for it, and then I'm going to spend all my money and absorb all my time, which is not a bad thing, but maybe it's not the focus I need right now. So, hey, I want to, but I'm semi-reluctant. But see, if an opportunity presents itself and it's right, then I'll jump on it It's the same thing. Right.

[00:33:31.070] - Big Rich Klein

I understand. I'm in the same situation. Being an event promoter, it's like people ask me, Have you ever competed in rock crawling? And I tell them, No. And have you desert raced? No. Have you rock raced? No. I've never competed in anything because I know that I'm too competitive, and I solely focused, and I have to do it at the highest level or try to obtain the highest level. Otherwise, I'm not satisfied with myself. So I know I'm better off as a promoter than a racer.

[00:34:16.180] - Chris Walker

Yeah, exactly. I hear you. I'm exactly the same. I guess my own personal little competition in my own head is, as you know, I drive Emily's personal truck during the Rebell. So my own personal competition is to compete the Rebell as a member of staff, getting the most footage for the videographer that I primarily look after and get to the end of the competition without being a car up or making a company yelling and waving a fist at me because I'm punching the fire, or got too many pinstripes on it. So that's my own internal competition.

[00:34:48.700] - Big Rich Klein

There you go. Excellent. So then what have your duties been on the rebel?

[00:34:57.610] - Chris Walker

Besides hanging hanging out at Dove Springs waiting for somebody to pick you up? Right. Emily and I spend a lot of time, so I have a couple of aspects that I work with. I guess, number one, I'm one of the official instructors on the Rebell U, so I've been lucky enough to spend time with Emily and Chrissy and Laura, Chris Benzie, and the other instructors teaching on the Rebell U courses in California and Nevada. That's where my heart and soul is in terms of day in, day out stuff. Helping Emily manage the program that she runs at the BC Overland Rally in the North West Overland Rally. That's been really fun over the years. And then in terms of the Rebell Rally itself, primarily these days, my technical title is Press Driver with Eda Lewis. But for the listeners, I also blend a little bit as per Emily's guidance into the safety team, but only in terms of if something needs assistance out on course in terms of recovery or a response or some assistance, then I've been tasked to go be one of those people. It seems like I tend to be one of the primary responders because the nature of what I'm trying to do in terms of moving the videographer or the photographer around course, I have some strict guidelines where I can and can't go in terms of the course, as you know, by the way, Jimmy and Emily set up the integrity of the competition.

[00:36:44.810] - Chris Walker

But during those moments where there's something that he's responding to, I have to trust with Emily to make good choices and to respond across country to whatever that might be a scheme necessary. I probably, because I'm usually out on the I'm, of course, moving around more than, not most, or more than a large proportion of the staff, then I'm probably more mobile to be able to do that. I think that's really why that happens. But yeah, it's a predominantly press driver, secondarily. I'm part of the safety all the response team, I guess.

[00:37:18.320] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And what do you think of the Rebell overall? I mean, what do you... Oh, When somebody asks you, What do you like about the Rebell, what do you come up with?

[00:37:36.400] - Chris Walker

That's a really hard question. I've never found a concise answer. So it's one of the most amazing competitions I've ever come across in terms of it. Clearly, it's all focused on women competing, which is very unique in itself. I love the fact that it's nothing to do with speed. I like the fact, or I really enjoy the fact that it's to do with accurate smart driving, because that really ties into what I do in terms of a career with my company. We're all about being smart drivers and accurate, not damaging vehicles or the environment, and being really mindful to trip lightly. I really enjoy the fact that it's map and compass navigation. That really seems to me and my background in terms of mountaineering instruction, orienteering instruction on how I grew up. And then, oh, my gosh, the women competitors, they're all amazing people. The staff are beyond inspiring and incredible. So this melting pot of such a diverse background of people being out in the desert doing something they all love and challenging themselves, not only as a competitor, but a member of staff. And then, I mean, shoot, how often do you get to go to be part of something where you get to drive, let's just say, 2000 miles per competition every year in some of the most unbelievably amazing terrain that really most people would never get the opportunity to see.

[00:39:14.790] - Chris Walker

And then, I mean, Jimmy and Emily are just geniuses on where they take us. So being allowed to be just a teeny tiny cog in that wheel is a year's highlight. I mean, there's nowhere else I could get experience to go drive that distance in that terrain and do it for purpose.

[00:39:36.760] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And what part of... Okay. I don't know if you can say this and not hurt anybody else's feelings, but which group of the staff, because there's all a bunch of different staff groups, do you like hanging out with the best?

[00:40:00.180] - Chris Walker

Oh, gosh. It's the best way to throw me under the bus, to pitch.

[00:40:05.340] - Big Rich Klein

You can take the fifth on it. You don't have to do it.

[00:40:09.660] - Chris Walker

I got a good answer. I'm going to say, ruin the chef, because that's The food is amazing. Then I can't get in trouble for anyone else.

[00:40:18.610] - Big Rich Klein

There you go. That was good thinking there.

[00:40:24.200] - Chris Walker

Right. I mean, honestly, I like hanging out with everyone. But the reality is, as you know, the days along, started in darkness, finishing darkness. So socially, really, I probably don't really get to socialize much at all, which is totally fine. Get there, sit up, go to sleep, get up the next morning, do the job. That's just how I roll.

[00:40:46.540] - Big Rich Klein

I think most of us on the course, how we socialize is on the radio.

[00:40:54.260] - Chris Walker

Yes, for sure. I probably sit with nick and the for maybe 20 minutes at the end of each day, half an hour at the end of each day, because it's interesting there. And part of my job as a media driver is to keep my ear to the ground to listen to stories and development. So the radio is really It's all during the day, so I think it was really interesting seeing how things unfold. But often sitting at a mechanics trailer as they're doing work or the women are coming in maintaining their cars, you often hear snippets of interesting information, which may lead to a story or a piece of video that evening or the next day. So really, if I'm going to be caught somewhere sitting down, that's where it is. Although if family is listening, I only sit down in the media sense, nowhere else, because I know she'll come over to the... So now she'll be scoping me out for the mechanics trailer to send me on an errand to Vegas or fly to the UK to pick something up.

[00:41:54.100] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, because, during the event, everybody on staff is busy. I mean, we're all running around not like chickens with our head cut off. We know what we're doing. We know what we're supposed to do. We just have a lot to do. And I can see- And that's why I like it. Yeah, I can see because when the teams get back to the tent, once they've gotten to the finish line each day, they got to set up their camp. If they need maintenance or anything done on the vehicle, they go over to the to the mechanics tent. They go through the fuel line. That's pretty quick. Most times, there's not a lot of time to socialize until they're filling your car. So I can see where listening and hearing makes sense at the mechanics, because once they get in the tent, then it's all about food and preparing for the next day, or asking the other team how their days were. And so what Shelly and I try to do is sit at a different every night, at least when the rally, the first few years of the rally. Now, by the time we get in, all the tables are full.

[00:43:09.980] - Big Rich Klein

So there's a back corner table where you might find the the mechanic or the other staff sitting or the media part. There might be seats there. So it gets more difficult as the years have gone on and more teams.

[00:43:28.940] - Chris Walker

Yeah.

[00:43:29.920] - Big Rich Klein

So that makes sense.

[00:43:31.930] - Chris Walker

It was pretty cool. It was a highlight of the year for sure. And so many characters across both sides of things. From Busby to you guys, to Lou, to Jimmy, to nick, to I mean, what an amazing bunch of people.

[00:43:48.800] - Big Rich Klein

And the photographers all have incredible stories from their years, what they do all year long. You know, the travel and the different events that they do.

[00:44:02.040] - Chris Walker

Yeah, exactly. And then the stuff that they produce for Emily to use in whatever direction she sends it is just staggering.

[00:44:13.030] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, pretty phenomenal. So Chris, have you watched the Dead Reckoning series? I'm sure you have.

[00:44:19.900] - Chris Walker

I have. Yeah, absolutely. It's one heck of a series. It was enjoying watching each one of those episodes come out. I was hoping Emily to tell me when the next episode would come out. Almost every other step of the way. And then I think along with that series, which I recommend anyone to take the time to watch, it really gives you an amazing insight into what the whole Rebell Rally is about in terms of terrain and ethos and competition. Every year, one of my favorite pieces is to go back online whenever the email goes out and watch the course highlights, the little star video that they put on and those things. They all do such a good job. It just ties together those two weeks out in the desert really nicely in a way to go, Oh, yeah, I remember that. Oh, gosh, I remember that. Because it moves so fast. Like, once we leave day one, once the train starts rolling, it's on. You barely have a moment to think. So it's good to be able to have something really high quality to look back on. That's why I enjoy it.

[00:45:24.710] - Big Rich Klein

I agree because you get to see everything that's happening. We're on course. We take off first thing in the morning because we're setting course markers, getting to our checkpoints, that thing. And then running sweep, we're typically the last ones in. Either, either Shelle and I or Chris Wu, are typically the last ones in or combined. And it's, I don't see what's happening except what we see on scoring, or we can see with the live show if we have service, which now we have service all the time because thank you, Elon Musk and Starlink, which has been a big life changer.

[00:46:15.180] - Chris Walker

Huge. Yeah. The live shows are fun. Often when people ask me about the Rebell, and it's coming up to October, then I'll encourage people to keep an eye on the website and watch the live presentations every day because they're fun with Emmy and Katie and Matthew. They're quirky goofples in their own rights with their own interesting backgrounds. It's fun to see them interact with the staff and the competitors and the day day in, day out competition. But it's not easy to watch during the competition, that's for sure.

[00:46:49.160] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Especially for staff. I mean, it's... Oh, yeah. Especially if we're moving because we got to be conscious of where we're going and what we're doing.

[00:46:59.720] - Chris Walker

So Watching the track or listening to the radio.

[00:47:03.860] - Big Rich Klein

Yes, exactly. And keeping track of scoring so we know where everybody is at, where they're supposed to be going, as opposed to maybe where some of them are going. Nobody ever gets truly lost. We know where they're at, especially nowadays. Maybe that first year, there was a little bit of that, but we How you recovered quickly and found people that maybe had gotten off track.

[00:47:38.620] - Chris Walker

It's very interesting watching the track as it's, and then trying to figure out what the next move is by certain teams. You see the odd random term by a vehicle, and it's fun watching them drive a distance and figure it out and then get back on course and seeing them at the end of the day having done well and a big smile on their It's hard to comprehend what they have to go through sometimes to get down course, but it's fun. I love watching it.

[00:48:07.910] - Big Rich Klein

We sit there and we're watching the tracking, we're watching the scoring, and then all of a sudden we see Everybody's going, say, at a specific spot, everybody's turning West. Then you see one team turn East or South, and you're like, Why did they do that? What are they thinking? But the difference is, we have all the electronics. We got track logs. We know where we're supposed to be going. They're just trying to figure it out with compass and plotting points. And hopefully they got the map orientated right so that They know north is up on the map, and they don't have the map inverted. We've seen that a couple of times. Like, no, no, no, we're supposed to be over here.

[00:48:59.020] - Chris Walker

No. I don't watch the scoring as much. I tend to watch the tracker because when I leave in the morning, I have to get to X area, where Jimmy and Heather, and Emily have guided us to, Hey, these shots might be really cool here, or these shots might be really cool here, or these shots might be really cool there. So I'm playing this game of, if I get to that first location, we can get a ton of vehicles. But if I sit there until all the vehicles have gone When I get through, there's a high likelihood that's it for my day. We're never going to be able to catch up. Not because people are racing, but people are moving and being efficient, they're getting down the course, they're doing the navigation. So I have to play this game of almost like cat and mouse. Okay, they're here right now. Let's take this number of vehicles, get these shots. Now, how do I transit myself to get back ahead of the game to staying within Tread Lightly and speed limits and tracking limits and all that stuff. And course limits are Jimmy set for safety and integrity of how do I get back on course so they will recapture either new competitors or same competitors in a completely different environment and then respond to the interesting radio calls like Pay, Team, XXX.

[00:50:19.180] - Chris Walker

They had a double puncture back in behind Dove Spring there, and they're requesting assistance. Those things are really the things that I listen for because they're interesting stories for live video or video snippets for later on or interviews or what have you, because that's just a real part of the competition. I have to cat and mouse my way through this. And then by watching the tracker and think and then trying to figure out on the map where they're heading next and how can I intercept people. And that's part of my own internal competition, which is, again, why I enjoy it so much is we have to challenge ourselves to get in the right place at the right time, really, to capture the content that the media teams after. So that's a lot of fun. But I don't have time for analyzing the score because as soon as I stop and look at scoring, then I'm at five minutes of my time, I'm like, Oh, shoot, I should have been gone.

[00:51:16.890] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Where we have to look at scoring because we need to know if the teams are going to backtrack, possibly, or if we can start taking the course down, because And part of our sweep is also to pull up the flags as we move along. The flags are the markers. So we need to know if those are.

[00:51:41.030] - Chris Walker

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[00:51:41.710] - Big Rich Klein

So then it sounds to me like maybe the cook crew, except for having to get up before everybody else and start prepping for breakfast. Then they got dinner. They got that whole time in the middle of the day where they get to rest and relax. We need to find something else for them to do. So I'm going to talk to Drew about that. They got to do something around camp.

[00:52:13.800] - Chris Walker

Good luck with that. Let me know how it goes. And if it's your last rebel, then great to know you. Good luck and take care.

[00:52:20.610] - Big Rich Klein

Well, we always tell everybody that we will be on the rebel as long as Emily will allow us to keep showing up.

[00:52:30.450] - Chris Walker

Here, here. I will raise a glass to that, too.

[00:52:34.450] - Big Rich Klein

So what is in the future for Chris Walker?

[00:52:38.750] - Chris Walker

Oh, gosh. We are continuing to grow the company. We have a few projects I don't want to share just yet, but we've got some expansion plans in the work right now with a couple of aspects of education, which I'm really excited about. Cool. But really, just to keep pushing what we're doing and keeping lots of opportunities and courses available to industry and recreation. A, look after public lands, be smart drivers, be smart and safe drivers in the workplace, and that stuff. We have some interesting relationships coming up with some big manufacturers, so that's really intriguing. In terms of personal stuff, lots of travel, I'm on the road all the time. Tomorrow, I go to the UK for a little bit of work. I spend a lot of time with a couple of colleagues in Wales doing some bits and pieces, some family time, a couple of trips with Vegas and femur. And next January, I think it is, I'm going to go spend some time in Iceland again, working with snow trucks, doing some driving stuff out there, probably heading to Mexico for another manufacturer's internal training with a more military style manufacturer. But yeah, lots of variety, really.

[00:54:04.580] - Chris Walker

Nice. Being on the road and enjoying what I'm doing and keeping my amazing instructors doing their job and enjoying what they're doing and getting them lots of travel opportunities so they can live the lifestyle and the careers that they want. So, yeah, that's really it in a nutshell.

[00:54:23.580] - Big Rich Klein

Iceland is on our life list. Oh, my gosh. We were going to go last winter and things work out for us with the situation that we were with with my parents and stuff. So we ended up having to scrap that. But that's one of the places that we... That's next on our list. I mean, we've done Australia, we've done Japan, We travel all over the United States. We've done Baha, some in Canada. But that Iceland is our next visit. And then I want to go to Ireland and also to New Zealand.

[00:55:01.540] - Chris Walker

Fantastic. Well, in terms of Iceland and Ireland, let me know. We should sit down and chat over a coffee one evening or morning before this October, the train starts to roll. And I'll share you some contacts and information and routes and all that stuff. It's a staggering country. Two years living in Iceland, one of my favorite countries in the world, and I'm super excited to be back there doing some work and exploration. I've been doing a lot of stuff with a big expedition called the Transglobal Car Expedition. The first fully wheeled expedition going north to south to north around the globe entirely on a rubber-tired vehicle. They left the Explorers Club, which I got them into as their launch location in New York there, because I'm a member of the Explorers Club and a fellow of the Royal Geographic Society. Because they started there, they headed up all the way up to the North Pole, came back down to Greenland, and they're now across in Europe. They crossed the Arctic in rubber-tired vehicles. They're now in Europe heading down towards Africa. They'll then drive all the way across Antarctica on a new route, cross to Australia, back up through Central America.

[00:56:16.160] - Chris Walker

So it's a really interesting exhibition that I've been consulting on and working on. I've been on a handful of bits and pieces of them. So I'm hoping to see them again. I mean, my secret, fingers crossed, is I'd love to see them in Antarctica, but the likelihood It's pretty low. So, yeah, that's on the cards is to be part of that again in the near future. That sounds cool.

[00:56:40.560] - Big Rich Klein

Those are the trips that I'd like to do. Next time I go to Australia, though, I figure I have to do six months there.

[00:56:48.380] - Chris Walker

Yeah, it's on my bucket list. I've never been. One day I'll get there.

[00:56:52.020] - Big Rich Klein

We did 16, 17 days, maybe 18 days, and it was way too short. It'd be like, coming States and going, okay, I'm going to come to her a two week visit and try to see everything I can. Well, good luck.

[00:57:07.910] - Chris Walker

I think as European, we're very lucky in that we can travel around a wide variety of different countries. But until you go to those huge countries, Australia or Africa, or North America, it's only then European from our small little countries go, Holy smoke, look at the size of this When I first moved to Canada and found out that it took six or seven days to drive across the country, it was insane. When I found out British Columbia alone, if you take British Columbia from north to south, you can place that over Washington, Oregon, and almost all of California, and the province of BC is that tall in length as to the three states on the west side of the US. And to drive from where I'm at in British Columbia here, near the US border, the tip of British Columbia, which is not even halfway up the country, is probably 24 hours worth of driving, if you drive nonstop.

[00:58:12.800] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:58:13.630] - Chris Walker

No break, just straight through. So it's a huge, right? If I drive 24 hours in the UK, I've done four-laps of the UK.

[00:58:24.880] - Big Rich Klein

Exactly. That just amazes me. I Right. I'm looking forward to getting into the British Isles and all that area. I really want to. I've got a lot of history, family that came out of that area, Scotland, especially in Ireland. So I'm looking forward to that.

[00:58:51.740] - Chris Walker

There's a couple of really nice trails there in Wild. Very small, straightforward. They're not hard, but so scenic across the moor, through the mountains, out into an old Abbey that came from the 11th century. So, yeah, there's some interesting stuff. And then the other fun fact about the UK is you're never more than 72 miles from the sea. So no matter where you are in the UK, only take 72 miles before you fall off the end and into the sea. Okay.

[00:59:22.800] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that's not- That's a bit of perspective. That's a short distance.

[00:59:30.300] - Chris Walker

Yeah, right. Exactly.

[00:59:31.610] - Big Rich Klein

Well, cool. Well, Chris, I want to say thank you so much for taking the time and making this interview happen. I'm looking forward to catching you at the Rebell again this year. And also, hopefully, if you're going to go with Seema, you might want to look at that Sunday before is the gala.

[00:59:52.390] - Chris Walker

It's on my list.

[00:59:53.500] - Big Rich Klein

For Ormoth. Because we got a friend that's being inducted.

[00:59:58.560] - Chris Walker

Yeah, inducted or inducted. Yes, it's on the list. I was looking into that, and I'd very much like to see that happen. Such a well-deserved nomination there.

[01:00:09.960] - Big Rich Klein

Well, hopefully we'll get to see at the gala then as well.

[01:00:13.530] - Chris Walker

Yeah, sounds good. Okay, well, thank you for your time, Rich.

[01:00:16.510] - Big Rich Klein

All right. And thank you, Chris. You take care.

[01:00:19.800] - Chris Walker

Okay. See you. Bye-bye. All right. Bye-bye.

[01:00:22.830] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and And leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.