Episode 226 features Mark Stahl, from slot cars to NASCAR

From Slot cars to NASCAR, Mark Stahl has a storied past in racing, catch up with him on  Episode 226. Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

2:52 – I guess you could say I was a professional slot car racer 

7:29– We went to Tijuana and got a fake birth certificate so I could race at age 16; Cajon Speedway required you to be 18             

16:01 – Well, off-road racing, the motto was never give up

26:29 – I pull up at the finish line and Scoop is sitting there in the Blazer, and Parnelli Jones walks up and looks at the number on my hood and just starts cussing 

34:08 – If I ever want to race NASCAR, now’s my time – I need to make the move to the south

43:57 – my most memorable event from the NASCAR days was the ’87 Winston 500 at Talladega

1:01:18 – you go through a lot of wives in racing, not because you’re cheating on them, but because you like race cars more than them, race cars don’t talk back

Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.

Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

[00:00:00.200] - 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:46.560] - 

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[00:01:13.030] - 

Have you seen 4Low magazine yet? 4low magazine is a high-quality, well-written, four-wheel drive-focused magazine for the enthusiast market. If you still love the idea of a printed magazine, something to save and read at any time, 4LOW is the magazine for you. 4LOW cannot be found in stores, but you can have it delivered to your home or place of business. Visit 4LOWmagazine.com to order your subscription today.

[00:01:40.030] - Big Rich Klein

On today's episode of Conversations with Big Rich, it's a gentleman that started his professional racing career in off-road, moved to NASCAR Racing in the Winston Cup Series, and after NASCAR, he raced in the ARCA Series. By 2001, he retired from racing, but that only lasted a few years because he found his way back into off-road racing. The gentleman is Mark Stahl. Hello, Mark Stahl. It's my pleasure to have you as a guest today on my Conversations with Big Rich podcast. I've been looking forward to this for a while. Your name has come up in a lot of the podcasts that I've done, and I'm looking forward to this conversation with you.

[00:02:19.240] - Mark Stahl

Good morning, Rich. I'm happy to be here, too. I've listened to many of your podcast, and it's an honor to be on the show with you.

[00:02:27.000] - Big Rich Klein

Well, the first question I ask everybody, and I'm going to ask you the same question is, where were you born and raised?

[00:02:35.800] - Mark Stahl

I was born and raised in San Diego and raised in National City and then Chula Vista until I got my driver's license when I lived in Chula Vista.

[00:02:47.290] - Big Rich Klein

Those early years, what was life like for Mark?

[00:02:52.650] - Mark Stahl

My early years, my dad was always interested in cars, and he owned a construction company and had all kinds of different cars. I got a mini bike when I was probably 10 or 11 and played on that mini bike a whole bunch, so I got used to being on two wheels. Then, believe it or not, at 12 years old, is when my racing career started because I was, I don't know, I was going to a lot of slot tracks in National City and Chula Vista and around that I could walk to. There was an older gentleman there that had slot cars that he built to race, and he needed somebody to drive them for him or whatever you called it with your little hand controller, and he picked me to do it. I did that with him for two or three years. I guess you could say I was a professional slot car racer because how it worked is if you got first, second, or third place, they gave you a little plaque that said what place you got, and you would get a gift certificate. I think first place gift certificate was a dollar and fifty cents, second place was a dollar, and third was fifty cents.

[00:04:04.120] - Mark Stahl

The deal we worked out was he would get all the plaques, and I would get all the gift certificates. I was making probably $10 or $15 a week in gift certificates. Because he'd pick me up and we'd go to two or three different racetracks a week all over San Diego to race. And that's how my racing career started.

[00:04:23.120] - Big Rich Klein

That's pretty cool. I can remember as a kid growing up near San Francisco, we'd always go up to Playland, which now is just a big townhouse area. They turned it, they got rid of the Playland. But there was a slot car facility there that had all sorts of different types of tracks: drag racing, rounding around to figure eight, like Le Mans style. It was pretty cool.

[00:04:51.680] - Mark Stahl

Yeah.

[00:04:53.820] - Big Rich Klein

That's awesome.

[00:04:54.390] - Mark Stahl

Same thing in my remembering of all the slot car fun I had.

[00:05:00.160] - Big Rich Klein

That's something that needs to come back. Much better than video games. It teaches kids eye/hand coordination. I mean, you're trying to work something that's a distance away. I mean, at times it comes by you, but some of those tracks are pretty big. Yeah, that's cool. So then professional slot car racer. That's a pretty awesome beginning there. You need that on your Wikipedia page.

[00:05:33.040] - Mark Stahl

Okay.

[00:05:36.810] - Big Rich Klein

So then what was school like for you?

[00:05:42.220] - Mark Stahl

School was just like any other thing. And when I went to high school, it was just a block away from where I lived in National City. I took a machine shop in high school, and I took welding in high school, mechanical drawing, and I went to the auto class there. I got Fs in auto class.

[00:06:09.540] - Big Rich Klein

Really?

[00:06:10.730] - Mark Stahl

Because I would ask the teacher questions that he didn't know the answers to. I I think he got mad at me. But in fact, I got my driver's license when I was a junior in high school and I had my very first car. We did a little bit of street drag racing here and there out in the East County of San Diego. It was a '56 Chevy that… It had a lot of engine issues from probably over-revving it, so I'd have to come to school the next day in auto shop class. I had to work on my car so I could continue. But my dad was interested, and like I said, interested in cars. He did some construction work because he was a general contractor for somebody, and they gave him an old oval track car that they used to race at Cajon Speedway. My job was to get that car ready and fixed up for my dad and my uncle and other relatives took turns driving at Cajon Speedway. Then I wanted to race at Cajon Speedway, too, and he had to be 18 to race there. Anyway, my dad said, I don't want you driving a race car until you get your driver's license and have some driving experience.

[00:07:29.000] - Mark Stahl

Anyway, I built a race car and got it all done. By the time I was 16, that's when we found out you had to be 18 to race there. We went to Tijuana and got a fake birth certificate for me to give him at Cajon Speedway to show that said I was 18, so I started racing when I was a junior in high school.

[00:07:50.420] - Big Rich Klein

What name was on that birth certificate? Manuel Gonzales or something?

[00:07:55.260] - Mark Stahl

No, it was Mark Stahl.

[00:07:57.600] - Big Rich Klein

Okay.

[00:07:59.510] - Mark Stahl

But anyway, Cajon Speedway. I was a junior in high school racing at Cajon Speedway. I found out that all the tests that you had to take in school were on Thursday. I only went to school most of the time on Thursday to pass all the tests. I'd grab high school, had to go spend the rest of the time working on the race car to get ready for Saturday night at Cajon Speedway.

[00:08:25.590] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. Did you ever take it to school and work on it? No. You didn't put it into your teacher's face?

[00:08:32.990] - Mark Stahl

No.

[00:08:33.810] - Big Rich Klein

That would have been fun. Yeah.

[00:08:38.320] - Mark Stahl

But anyway, everybody else was playing high school sports. I don't know. I would do pretty good racing at cone speed away. I was winning main events and trophy dashes, and I was earning money racing, and everybody else was just playing high school sports. That's how my racing career really started.

[00:08:59.410] - Big Rich Klein

Doing circle track at Cajon?

[00:09:01.910] - Mark Stahl

Yes.

[00:09:03.160] - Big Rich Klein

What car was it? Do you remember what class? Was it like a street?

[00:09:07.410] - Mark Stahl

Well, I started out in the limited stock division at Cohn Speedway, and I started mid-year, and they had a rule, if you won four main events in the limited stock division, you were automatically transferred to the super stock division. I had won four main events in the first year that I was racing. When I went in my senior year in high school, I was racing in the unlimited super stocks at Cajon Speedway.

[00:09:39.540] - Big Rich Klein

Very good. Awesome. Was any of that pre-driving with your driver's license on the street. Was any of that applicable to racing at Cajon?

[00:09:52.640] - Mark Stahl

No, not really.

[00:09:55.480] - Big Rich Klein

That's what I thought. I like how parents always do that. Well, you need this experience before I'm going to let you go do this. And it's like, what does that have to do with that? I think my dad just wanted me to have some experience behind the wheel and get a feel of cars, which driving a race car on a short oval track, you get a feeling of what it can and can't do, especially if you're the one who has to fix it when you wreck it. Right. And so once you started racing it, did your dad and uncles race it often?

[00:10:31.660] - Mark Stahl

Well, they raced for the first, probably the first year that I was. And then, I don't know, some of my other friends and cousins and stuff got their own race cars and continued to race. But I think my dad was content with watching me race, so he gave it up.

[00:10:48.740] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And once you got out of high school, how did you afford to race? Did you work for your dad?

[00:10:57.890] - Mark Stahl

Yes, I worked for my dad, and in construction for almost 10 years. And what happened there is I was working for him, and I started desert racing, motor cycles in district 38. I did that for quite a while and developed. What happened is my dad loved to go camping out of the desert. So we went out the desert, I had dirt bikes, and it was just so much fun that I decided I had to start desert racing. Then after I graduated from desert racing and went into car racing, a race car is as you probably know, take every cent you can come up with. And working for my dad, I was not making a whole lot of money. I wasn't doing anything to get rich. I'd have to borrow money from my dad to pay the entry fees to race in the score road races. And it would take me until the next race to get them paid back to cover the expenses to do it over again. And when I won the Baja 1,000 in 1978, which we can go into that story later. But anyway, after I won that race, a whole bunch of people asked me, Hey, Mark, can you take care of my race car and prep it for me?

[00:12:22.040] - Mark Stahl

I got thinking about it and I thought, You know what? And what happened, I would work for my dad four hours a day, and I spent the rest of the day chasing parts and then working on race cars all night. I told my dad, I said, Dad, I think I need to open up an off-road prep shop so that I could earn enough money to be able to afford to do this and not have to be borrowing money from you all the time. And my dad goes, I think that would be a great idea.

[00:12:46.870] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. So that Baha 1,000 race, was that the one where you beat vessels, scoop?

[00:12:55.950] - Mark Stahl

Yes, it is.

[00:12:59.440] - Big Rich Klein

Was that your first 1,000?

[00:13:02.060] - Mark Stahl

No. My very first Baja 1,000 was in 1975. And a friend of my dad's did construction work. He owned a Class IV Unlimited Bronco. Anyway, I told them that, Hey, I'd like to race with you guys. And that was Ken and Greg Rice. And they said, Okay, you can ride with us in this race. Anyway, I went over to help them a whole bunch getting the Bronco ready. In fact, at one point, they had somebody they said was going to build the engine for it and get the engine ready for it. I kept saying, Well, when they're going to do it, when they can do it, I can do that if you want, because I knew how to build engines from all my race cars, Ford engines. Oh, we got the guy who's going to do it. Finally, two weeks before the race, they said, I don't know, he's not showing up. I said, Okay, I can put the engine together for him. I put the engine together for the car. Anyway, we had a pretty good race that year. We finished in our class, and they continued to use my engine. I think they said they won the Baja 1,000 three, four, or five times with my engine in that Bronco.

[00:14:11.070] - Mark Stahl

But anyway, I determined I was only going to be a co-rider with them. I Is he going to get to drive. So a friend of mine that I knew from Desert Racing Bikes, Steve Schmidt, I think we got together and he said he'd like to race some Baja 1,000. So I said, Okay, we were both still racing bikes out at the desert. So we teamed up and raced in the 1976 Baja 1,000 on our motorcycle in the unlimited or the open, the big class for bikes in Baja. That was 1976 was one of the wettest Baja 1000s ever. It rained so much the one day they had to postpone the race until the next for things to dry out some. But anyway, we were doing really good. I drove the first 100 miles to Nuevo Junction, and then Steve Schmitty-Smith drove the bike over the summit out on the Laguna out of dry lake, and it was so muddy that he said he was running wide open in third gear for like 50 miles down the dry lake and ran out of gas 15 miles before the pit where I was supposed to get back on the bike.

[00:15:30.890] - Mark Stahl

Anyway, we lost about two or three hours sitting out there. And finally, a long story short, we went out there and got gas on the bike, and I continued on at the finish. We finished fourth in our class.

[00:15:45.000] - Big Rich Klein

Wow. After sitting there for that long.

[00:15:47.470] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. I think we had an excellent shot to win the race. But that's Baha'a for you. Things can go bad when you least expect it.

[00:15:54.980] - Big Rich Klein

Right. It doesn't even have to be you or the bike. Yeah. There's so many variables in Baha.

[00:16:01.210] - Mark Stahl

Yes, yes, there is. But anyway, then the next year, we were racing in the Parker 400 on the same bike, and Smitty was really good on the rough stuff, and I was better on the high-speed smooth curvy stuff. So I did the Arizona loop, which was 100 miles east of Parker. And then Smitty did the California loop that I think, I don't know, I think it might have been 150, 160 miles on the California side. And he gave me the bike. We were in the leads when I started the Arizona loop for the final loop. Anyway, I took off and got into the Osborne wash. It was doing really good. And third gear went out in the transmission on the bike. And I said, I'm not going to quit. I'm going to keep going until, hopefully, it will make it. But somehow, I think a tooth or something picked up in the gear box of the transmission, the bike seized up. I went over the handlebars, face planted into the broke my collarbone. Anyway, we were still leading the race and said, I'm not giving up. I managed to pick the bike up, and then I started it up and tried to get it going, and it was seized up.

[00:17:12.870] - Mark Stahl

I rocked it back and forth and finally burnt the clutch out of it, laid the bike on the ground, and about a half hour later, I got to go on a helicopter ride to the Parker Hospital.

[00:17:22.020] - Big Rich Klein

Wow. Determination, though.

[00:17:25.750] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. Well, off-road racing, the motto was never give True.

[00:17:31.880] - Big Rich Klein

And so did you race bikes again after that crash in Parker?

[00:17:36.460] - Mark Stahl

Okay. What happened after that is we were remodeling a house for a fellow in Imperial Beach that owned Schulivista Imports. He had three kids, and they all had motorcycles, and I took them all out and taught them all how to ride. They were coming to some of the bike races with me, and they'd put the bike, put gas in and stuff. Anyway, their dad was at the race with at Parker there. And after the race, they brought me back to work. Everybody found me and picked me up. And she said, Mark, I think racing motorcycles is too dangerous. He says, You need a car. And I said, Do you know how much one of them cars cost now? And he says, Yes, I do. I checked into it, it could be about $15,000. When we get back to San Diego, I'll have some money for it, and you go order a car. And I said, What? Okay. So anyway, yeah, that's what- What was his name?

[00:18:32.630] - Big Rich Klein

Do you remember?

[00:18:33.340] - Mark Stahl

His name was, yes, Roy Robles, owner of Chula Vista Imports.

[00:18:40.250] - Big Rich Klein

Nice guy.

[00:18:41.580] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, but I think he was happy that I was teaching his kids how to safely ride motorcycles and not hurt themselves. So anyway, I had the car built, Chinith 100. I liked Mike Thomas, was the one I worked with the Chinnith Racing Products in Alcahont. Had the car built. I knew nothing about off-road cars at the time. I just knew about motorcycles. Anyway, we had the car built. And Steve Schmidt and I raced the... I think we raced a couple of high desert races, but our first race in Baja was the Baja 500. That would have been in 1977. And they had drawings for how you left the starting line, and they'd start one vehicle every 30 seconds. And we drew number 100 for the Baja a 500. So we were the first car off the line. And we were doing pretty good in the race until, I don't know, three quarters of the way through the race, one of the dots and rear axles that were in it. This is for it, but they started using CV joints. One of the dots and axles broke, and we had a spare axel in the car, and Smitty had to get out and change it.

[00:19:52.850] - Mark Stahl

It took him a while to get it done. Anyway, we finished 10th in our very first race.

[00:19:58.880] - Big Rich Klein

That's not bad, especially changing an axel.

[00:20:02.340] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, it was pretty good. Then Smitty and I raced the car for about another year, and we kept having transmission problems. The transmission would break a whole lot in it. I can't remember who I was having do the transmissions at first. But Don Hatz was doing my engines. Don Hatz, one of the best off-road Volkswagen engine builders there ever was, ever is. Went a tremendous amount of races. Anyway, right before the start of the 19th, and I have the transmission rebuilt before every race, and it would still break. We were leading all kinds of various races, high desert, and transmission would break. And before the '78 Baja 1000, I'm getting ready to start pre-running and work's being done in the car. And Don Hatz tells me, he says, Hey, there's a new guy building transmissions that I think you should give him a try. His name's Mike Mindy Viola. And I said, Okay, what have I got to lose? So I had Mike start doing the transmission. And then it was time to start pre-running. And Smitty had just opened up his Smitty's three-wheeler business, which is widely known throughout the off-road world. But anyway, Smitty goes, I'm not going to have time to pre-run.

[00:21:23.280] - Mark Stahl

He says, I'm afraid I won't be able to race with you. It's like, Oh, okay. I understand completely. We had a good run. Anyway, so I started asking other people if they'd like to race with me because I said, I need a co- driver. I asked a couple of different guys, and then Ivan Stuart and I were friends. We hung out here and there now and then. I said, Hey, Ivan, I need a co- driver. You want to race with me? Because I knew he just got done, retired from driving the Modern Motors, Kenneth 1000, where Ivan won a whole lot of races in it. Ivan goes, Oh, no. He says, I can't do it. He says, I'm supposed to race in Class 5, 1600 with Charlotte Corral. Her husband owns a Ford dealership, and they're building me a Class 8 truck to race. And I thought, Oh, okay, which is really ironic because I ended up buying that truck that I was been racing in the Nora, makes me 1,000 for 10 years. Nice. Anyway, getting closer and closer to the race, I couldn't find anybody. And I just thought, Well, you know what?

[00:22:23.640] - Mark Stahl

I'm going to run the race, and I'll go until the transmission blows, and then I'll go home. And the transmission never blew. That whole race is a long story that I can finish up with. But anyway, I went on to win the race overall solo.

[00:22:43.360] - Big Rich Klein

Wow. So you iron Man, that '78 Baja 1000? Yes. Yeah, my first one. In a Volkswagen-powered buggy.

[00:22:50.730] - Mark Stahl

Yes.

[00:22:52.050] - Big Rich Klein

Wow. That's awesome. Do you want to talk about that 1000 now, or the story- Yeah, no, we can- Yeah, let's talk about that.

[00:23:04.070] - Mark Stahl

Okay. That race started. It was the 1,000 km. I think it was somewhere around 600 miles, give or take. It started in Mexicali. In that race, too, it rained quite a bit. It was raining a little bit at the start of the race. My vehicle was number 118, so that means in Frank's scoop vessel, a great guy. He was the first vehicle off the line in the BF Goodrich Blazer. Yeah, he was the number 100. So the race started. We headed down Laguna Salada, and I was passing quite a few vehicles here and there because there was 17 vehicles that started in front of me. And we went down Laguna Salada, and then we went and got on Diablo Dry Lake and across Diablo Dry Lake, and then down into in the Matomi wash. Anyway, I finally, Frank, I caught in the Matomi wash was the last vehicle that was in front of me. I caught up to him and got right behind him, and he went off the road a little tiny bit and shot a great big hunk of cactus right up in the cab of the car. It stuck to my foam steering wheel.

[00:24:21.040] - Mark Stahl

It was stuck in my hands and my gloves. I'm trying to throw the thing out, and I slowed down a little bit. Within a minute or so, somebody rams me from behind telling me to get the hell out of the way because I was going too slow. The cactus then flew out of my hands and down in my legs, all over my lap. I had cactus everywhere. I pulled over to the side of the road. It was Bob Rodine that one was right behind me and was telling me, Move it. Anyway, I took my gloves off and picked all the cactus out of everything I could. Got going again, and I went probably three or four or five miles more. And there's scoop park with the front end of the blazer all up in the air. It's like, What the heck is going on? And I went by him, looked over at him, and went by him, and I don't know, somehow he hit a rock. And was high-centered on this rock trying to get off it. So I continued along. The only one left in front of me was Bob Rodine. And I get up on the road from Portecitos headed to Santa Felipe.

[00:25:26.260] - Mark Stahl

And here's Bob Rodine going down the road in his right rear tire is about six inches out of camber, like something had broke on it. So I passed him and continued on, and I made it up to San Mateus Pass, to where my pit was, and it was so rainy and muddy up there. I thought, I'm going to get out of the car. I got out of the car and basically took my fire suit off and was pulling cactus out of my legs, my back, my stomach, my arms. And they put some mud tires on my car and I got back in and took off and it got dark and it was muddy. I mean, it was a mess. Anyway, I continued on to the finish line, never seeing anybody again. I figured everybody was behind me. I just tried to keep my pace up as good as I could, and the mud tried to stay on the road. I knew if I slid off the road, I would lose. Anyway, I pull up the finish line, and I look, and scoop is sitting there at the finish line in the Blazer. I thought, What the heck?

[00:26:29.330] - Mark Stahl

And then Parlele Jones comes and walks up and looks at the number on the hood of my car, and he looks at it, and he looks at his watch, and he starts custing and walks off. I said, I just won the... I beat Frank I beat Frank by eight minutes. Many years later, I saw Frank, and Frank told me, he says, Mark, I'm really happy you won that race. He said, There was a shortcut around El Alamo, and I got there. He says, I was still behind you. He said, Parnelly was standing in the road, and he said, You take the shortcut. He said, I did not want to do it, but Parnelly made me. Anyway, on that shortcut, Frank got in front of me. I don't know where the shortcut was, but Frank got in front of me and beat me to the finish line. But luckily, I've still beat him time-wise.

[00:27:26.420] - Big Rich Klein

No, Parnelly is not around now to to say that that's not what happened. Did you ever talk to Parnelly about that?

[00:27:35.810] - Mark Stahl

Well, I sat with Parnelly at the table at the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame dinner a couple of years ago. I asked Parnelly. I said, Parnelly, do you remember anything about the Baha 1,000? Like, no, I really don't remember. So I didn't push it.

[00:27:51.580] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. Wow, that's pretty good. That's an awesome story.

[00:27:59.100] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. Then Anyway, after that, I figured, well, okay, this solo, I guess that's what I meant to do. So I continued racing solo. And after that race, too, I started taking care of all kinds of people's cars. So I opened up my... I opened up Marchtroll Race Trip, and I could actually make enough money to be able to afford a race better. And my story for the 1980 Baja 1000 that I won overall solo is they dropped the flag, the race started. I went faster than anybody else, and I won.

[00:28:34.510] - Big Rich Klein

And that's it?

[00:28:35.800] - Mark Stahl

That's it. That's it. And then the '81 Baja 1,000. It was quite a story because In the Baja 500 in 1981, I was racing and doing good. There was one car in front of me. It was Jack Motley, and about 30 miles from the finish, right outside of Ojos, there's some high-speed straight roads, and I caught him, and I looked at his number on the back of his car, and I thought, Okay, I need to pass them and put three minutes on them before the finish line. So anyway, I pulled... Usually back then, there was no push to pass, there was nothing. You bumped the guy in front of you and snapped his head back, and he would move over and let you go by. Because if you hit him too easy, they would nail it and jackrabbit on you, and you never get by him. So I caught up to him and thought, If I bump him, he's going, and I'll never get by him. So I'm just going to pull out and go around him and try and get him in the dust and beat him by three minutes to the finish line.

[00:29:41.190] - Mark Stahl

So anyway, I pull out to go around him, and the minute I get to the side of him, I see there's a great big huge washout, 5 feet wide, I don't know how deep. And I slammed on the brakes not to go in that thing, and I was going 20 miles an hour faster than he was. Well, anyway, I didn't slow down enough. And I went over his left rear tire, Halfway into the washout, my car rolled, flew up into the air. I landed on his hood upside down. My car came off of his hood and rolled, I don't know how many times. When it stopped, the engine had broken loose from the case. There was only one wheel left on the car. I think one front wheel, the two rears and one front were busted, all the aluminum hubs, self-destructed. I think my elbow was all cut up and bloody from the switches on the side panel of the car. Anyway, Jack pulls up with me, Mark, are you okay? I said, Yeah, I'm fine. Go on. So he went on to the finish in one.

[00:30:42.620] - Big Rich Klein

That was the 500?

[00:30:44.410] - Mark Stahl

Yes, that was the 500. Anyway, there was a whole lot of new fun goes coming out then. They had a 10-inch longer wheelbase than my car. So I thought, You know what? This car is a complete mess. So I took it home and I said, I'm going to cut it in half and add 10 inches to the frame to make the wheelbase longer. So anyway, I took it back, cut it in half, put it all back together, and made it... I had a 113-inch wheelbase. And after I won the 1980 Baja 1,000, the winnings I got from that, I knew I wanted to go Nascar racing again. My goal was to race Nascar in the south, and there was what was called the Nascar Winston West Racing Series. So after the '80 Baja 1,000, I had a car built, a rolling chassis by Speedway Engineering. And then I started working on that with all my stock car experience and got it done where I was racing a few races up down the West Coast. And after my wreck in the 1970s, or the 1981 Baja 500, the next week, the race was at Riverside Raceway in the stock car.

[00:32:05.540] - Mark Stahl

And from all the impact and rolling I did, my neck was messed up pretty bad, too. I had to be under the car lifting a big 'O' heavy top loader Ford 4-speed in this car. It's like, what a pain that was with a... Might as well had a broken neck. Anyway, I got the car done and went up to Riverside and raced the race there. But then in the night 1981 Baja 1,000, that race started off and things were going pretty good. I was going along really good in my loot, longer wheelbase, Kenneth 1,000. And that race was... It was a long race. I got to the finish line, first car to the finish line in 20 hours and 38 minutes.

[00:32:59.440] - Big Rich Klein

Wow.

[00:33:00.330] - Mark Stahl

Winning Class I and winning the Ironman again. And I think that might still be the longest record time for anyone winning the Ironman Award. But anyway, I'm sitting there, and in about, I don't know, five minutes later, here comes Mark MacMillon in his two 8:00, 2000, that would have been. And I looked down as like, Son of a gun, Mark just beat me by, I don't know, he beat me by eight minutes from the overall.

[00:33:25.700] - Big Rich Klein

Darn that Mark MacMillon.

[00:33:29.350] - Mark Stahl

Yep. It was funny because I was hanging out with Mark a few years ago, probably at the Off-Road Motors Sports Hall of Fame dinner. Mark goes, You know that 1981 Baha 1,000? He said, I used up all my co-writers. He said, The last four or five hours of the race, he says, I had to put an unbanded co-writer in there. I thought, You, son of a, you know what? You cheated. And he goes, Oh, time limits passed. That's what you can do about it. I was just like, Okay.

[00:34:04.340] - Big Rich Klein

I know some people that have done that.

[00:34:08.120] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of co-writers. I had that happen before, too. Like taking care of some their race cars at the Met for them. In fact, I was taking care. I had a whole lot of Mexican clientele that was taking care of their race cars. And one of them was Quatimic Hank, whose dad was the mayor of Mexico City. And They had a chin of 2,000 that I'd take care of them for them, and they'd run all the races. He was quite a guy because he'd be out racing, and he had all the secret service in Mexico's helicopters following them around. And they were racing them at 400 one year, and he ran out of co-writers because nobody could take it. So he had to put some unbanded co-riders in with them. And my off-road racing career, what happened there after the '81 Baja 1,000, like I said, so many of my customers were from Mexico, and they devalued the peso in the 1981, 1982. I thought, You know what? All my money is going to be going away. So if I ever want to race Nascar, now's my time. I need to make the move to the south.

[00:35:21.670] - Mark Stahl

I closed all my business, sold everything I could, all my off-road race cars. At the end of 1982, I moved Charlotte, North Carolina, to start my career in Winston Cuff Racing. And I went to Charlotte. And in fact, there's a fellow that raced NASCAR, Elmo Langley. He had me run his number for him at the Winston 500 at Riverside, I think to start in 1982. Anyway, I told him I was moving to Charlotte to start a career in Winston Cup Racing So he helped me find a place, a shop to rent, and a place to rent. And it was from Harry Hyde, who was the fellow that Rick Hendrick, who owns Hendrick Motors, went to Harry Hyde in the middle of 1983, because I got to Charlotte the very first part of 1983. And Harry Hyde, I was busy building my cars, getting them ready to start racing. And Harry Hyde saw that I knew how to fabricate and do all kinds of stuff. So Harry Hyde said, Hey, there's a fellow that owns a car dealership here in Charlotte. He wants to go Nascar racing, and we're going to build his first two cars.

[00:36:39.300] - Mark Stahl

Would you like to help build them? And I told Harry, Absolutely. I'll learn so much helping you guys build these race cars. So anyway, I helped build Rick Hendrix's very first two raced cars.

[00:36:52.460] - Big Rich Klein

Wow, that's awesome.

[00:36:54.220] - Mark Stahl

And they told me, too, Hey, when we get the cars done, they're going to test the cars, and we'll let you be one of the test drivers to see how it goes. Okay, that'd be really good. It might be an opportunity. Well, that never happened. Richard Petty came over, was looking at the cars. Mark Martin came over, was looking at them. Dale Ernhardt came over, and I helped fit the seat to Dale Ernhardt. Anyway, Dale earnhardt went out to the Charlotte Motor Speedway with them and test drove all the cars to get them all dialed in. I never got a chance, so I had to attempt it on my own.

[00:37:28.250] - Big Rich Klein

You got bumped by Dale earnhardt?

[00:37:30.700] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. Doesn't that make you mad?

[00:37:32.190] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. What a shame. They let some guy like that bump you?

[00:37:37.680] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, I know. Anyway, I started racing and doing as much as I could, going to a few races. When I was attempting to make the Nascar races, there would be 70 cars show up for a 40 car field. I mean, you had You had to do everything you could to try and get in the race. A set of tires for one of those cars cost $2,000. You had to put brand new tires on your car when you went out to qualify. You'd go there and buy a set of tires to practice on and put a bunch of laps on them, and then spend another $2,000 to have your sticker tires, as they call them for qualifying. When we made the races way back somewhere between 30th and 40th, it was like, That's a victory for us when we even get in the race.

[00:38:35.660] - Big Rich Klein

Right. It's a lot different nowadays where the teams are set. I don't even know if they have guys come in anymore and try to qualify like that that are not part of the major teams.

[00:38:50.610] - Mark Stahl

No, they're franchised owned now. Right. And all the NASCAR, I think I ran 30 Winston Cup races in about 10 years. My best finish, I finished 16th at Darlington, which is one of the toughest tracks for us to drive. I mean, it is a strange racetrack. And then one of my other best finishes was the last race, the last unrestricted race was at Talladega Super Speedway in 1987, and Bill Elliott won the pole at 212 miles an hour. I I qualified the first day, and we had used tires on the car. Anyway, I made a pretty good lap. I think, I don't know, coming off a turn, the car broke loose a little bit. I don't know, the aerodynamics did something and the front windshield exploded. Luckily, I saved the car and made it lap of like, 199 miles an hour. I said, Okay, look, we can do better the next day. Let's put a new set of tires on the car. I went out and qualified at 204 miles hour, and I was the second-round fast qualifier, which was a pretty neat accomplishment. I got a six-pack of Bush beer and $500 for the Bush.

[00:40:12.620] - Mark Stahl

It was the Bush second-round fast qualifier. Bear award.

[00:40:16.270] - Big Rich Klein

Did that pay for the windshield from the day before?

[00:40:19.220] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, it did. I still have the Bush... I still have the six-pack of bear sitting in my trophy case.

[00:40:26.140] - Big Rich Klein

That's awesome. That's great.

[00:40:28.880] - Mark Stahl

But anyway, the race It went pretty good. That's the race where Bobby Allison blew his engine and cut his rear tire and about went up into the grand stands. It was a heck of a mess. I managed. I hung on to the whole race when I finished 17th in that race, which was a pretty good run for... Draft there at 200 miles an hour was just incredible. You'd be out there and you'd tell your spotter and your coochee, Hey, somebody ran into me. I just felt my car get bumped on the side or whatever. Anyways, I say, Check it when I come in the next pit stop, and they look at it, nothing wrong. Everything looks fine, no tire marks or nothing. And the air coming off the noses of cars at 200 miles an hour when they get over close to you, it feels like somebody's ran into you.

[00:41:14.630] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Wow. I had a chance, and the weather ruined it for us. We were doing a rock crawl or a rock race down in near Talladega, Bill Baird was one of our rock racers.

[00:41:34.590] - Mark Stahl

Okay. Yeah.

[00:41:35.740] - Big Rich Klein

And he goes, Rich, you and Josh and Cheli come down. Josh was a kid that worked for me at the time. He goes, You guys come down and I'll get you some hot laps around Talladega. I was like, whoa, this is going to be awesome. So we made the arrangements, and then it rained us out.

[00:41:55.260] - Mark Stahl

And they didn't let you go on the track at all?

[00:41:59.080] - Big Rich Klein

No, we We just canceled it. I would have loved to have the chance to go to go fast around Talladega, but it did never happen. But it was great going into the museum there.

[00:42:18.800] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. Okay. Did you even get to go out and look at the racetrack?

[00:42:23.140] - Big Rich Klein

No. I mean, we walked into the area, but I didn't get a chance to walk the track.

[00:42:29.840] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. I've been there before. After they did the museum, we stopped by, and then we went, and they let you go out and see the racetrack. If you go through the tunnel, and then they park, and then you go walk up the banking, and it's unbelievable how steep that 33-degrees banking is.

[00:42:45.670] - Big Rich Klein

Right. When I was in Charlotte at the Nascar Museum there, they have that wall that shows the various bankings of the different tracks. Right. It's amazing how steep 33 degrees really is.

[00:43:05.590] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, you don't walk up, you just about have to crawl up it.

[00:43:09.030] - Big Rich Klein

Exactly.

[00:43:10.130] - Mark Stahl

You don't park your high vehicle on it because it will roll down the hill. Yeah, the very first time I went to Dayton, out there doing a few warm-up laps, and then you nail it. You're doing 200 miles an hour down the back straight away, and you're looking at that banking and you don't lift, and you go, Oh, my God, I hope this thing sticks to the track. I don't want to fly out of here.

[00:43:34.900] - Big Rich Klein

I can imagine that's what it's like, is hitting a ramp, like the motorcycle jumpers do and stuff like that. I can't imagine that. Yeah. It's crazy. What was the most memorable event or story that you have from those NASCAR days?

[00:43:57.370] - Mark Stahl

I would say it was the '87 Winston 500 at Talladega, where we were the last unrestricted NASCAR race, going 200 miles an hour on that track. And what happened in 1994, it was taking so much money to race the Cup Series that I decided it was time to start racing in the Arca Series, which would be the Saturday race or Friday race before the NASCAR Cup Race. Same car, same everything. So in 1994, I started racing in the Arca Series. And instead of racing in the back, where we never got on TV, because we had Auto Bell Carwashers of North Carolina was my sponsor in all my stock car racing for 17 years straight. And occasionally, we'd get on TV if something happened to be messed up. But in the Arca Series, we could race up front, and I was racing for the win in those races instead of just trying to go along and do the best I could. In the Arca Races, I had some good runs that Dayton would finish in the top 10. Same thing at Atlanta and Charlotte in the ARCA races. I think I had three different top five finishes in the ARCA Race at Talladega.

[00:45:20.230] - Mark Stahl

I was on my way to winning the ARCA Race at Talladega one year. I don't know what year exactly, but ran out of gas a half mile from the finish line, and cars started going by. But it was one of those gas mileage things, and you're trying to do the best you can. I think I passed somebody on the back straight away to get in first place, and then I ran out of gas, coming off turn four, and I don't know, two or three cars went by me.

[00:45:46.210] - Big Rich Klein

That's got to be heartbreaking at that point when a thing starts to sputter out and they're going by.

[00:45:53.110] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. But in my last Arca Race was that Dayton in 2001. The race started We were running along and I don't know, there was a wreck in front of me and I swerved to miss them or something. Anyway, I spun out and hit the wall, driver's side, right at the start finish line. Really slammed the wall hard. I probably had slowed down to 180 miles an hour.

[00:46:16.730] - Big Rich Klein

Really slowed down.

[00:46:18.430] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. I was knocked out. I was unconscious for 10 minutes. If the car was on fire, I probably wouldn't be here to do this interview. Wow. Anyway, I wake up, my crew chief, Mark, they're getting ready to cut the roof off the car. Are you there? Why you got... Finally, Okay, I'm here. Don't let them do that. I'm getting out. So I undead my belt. And, oh, wait, I can't get out. The crash walls in the way. So I don't know. They drug the car away from the wall, and I got out, and I was, I don't know. I was fine other than one of my nine concussions that I've had in my lifetime. And at that point, I think I was 49 years old, and I said, You know what? I don't need to be. If I would have never woken up and the car was on fire, I wouldn't be here. So I said, I'm done doing this. I don't need to be going 200 miles an hour anymore. And then the next Sunday, Dale Lerner hit the wall in turn three, and it was the end of his life, which was really a sad way to go.

[00:47:25.770] - Mark Stahl

And I said, Then I know I'm done. So that was the end of my stock car career. And then, I don't know, a few years later, even though I lived in North Carolina, I was living in Savannah, Georgia at the time, I still planned trips down to Baja every year, get family and friends like, Okay, we're going on an excursion in Baja. This is where we're going for a week or whatever, two weeks. And we'd go down and explore Baja. And I was out there one time and somebody said, Hey, Pete Soren, Pistole Pete, God rest his soul and congratulations to him on getting into the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame. He got a hold of me and said, Mark, we're doing a radio show because it's going to be the 40th anniversary of the Baja 1000 this November. I'd like you to be on the show. I was like, Okay, that'd be cool. Anyway, I went out there and went to where they were doing the show and talked all kinds of stories about whatever. Then after the show, it's like, 40th anniversary, Baha 1,000. You know what? I I want to do that.

[00:48:31.490] - Mark Stahl

Anyway, I started talking to everybody and trying to find somebody needed a ride co- driver. I don't know, nothing happened. Then at some point, Rich Minger called me up and says, Mark, we're doing the wide open Baja cars for the 40th anniversary of Baja 1000. It's in Sanate Cabo, 1,300 miles. We need some more drivers. You want to drive with us? I said, Heck, yeah, I'm in. Anyway, I went out there and teamed with all of them. And we had a good run and won our class in the '40th anniversary Baja 1000. That was pretty cool since I had taken 26 years off on my '81 Baha'1,000 win and went on and did it again.

[00:49:20.360] - Big Rich Klein

That's pretty cool. Mingo is a pretty good guy.

[00:49:24.720] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. Rich worked for me when he was 16 years old, back when I had my off-road race prep shop in Chula Vista. I've known Rich for many, many years.

[00:49:36.440] - Big Rich Klein

That's pretty cool. And with the radio show, was Pistole part of the radio show?

[00:49:43.210] - Mark Stahl

Yes, he was the one who interviewed me.

[00:49:44.760] - Big Rich Klein

Okay.

[00:49:45.930] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, he was just like you. He was the emcee.

[00:49:49.230] - Big Rich Klein

Right. I helped Pete for a few years down in Baha on the Thousands. Yeah. He was one of the guys that always said, Okay, if anybody's going to talk to me on the radio, I wanted to be rich. And I was like, why? And there was a couple of other guys that I ended up doing the same thing for. And they said, he goes, Because you're always calm. And you don't ask a bunch of dumb questions. And I'm like, okay. And now what am I doing? I'm on a podcast asking a bunch of dumb questions.

[00:50:21.160] - Mark Stahl

No, they're not dumb. You got to ask questions to find out what's going on.

[00:50:24.440] - Big Rich Klein

Exactly.

[00:50:26.020] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, the one thing, too, I don't know. And then at some point, my My dad started getting up there in age, and he needed some assistance. Somebody to look after him for things. And my dad played with cars. My dad made it to 94 years old, and he played with cars until he was 92. I mean, he put a 64 Ford Ranchero body, which is a unibody, and modified it and made it fit on a '98 Ford Explorer chassis. That was the last thing he finished at 92 years old. Wow. But anyway, yeah, that's pretty amazing. In 2007, I moved back after that race. I said, You know what? I need to move back out Southern California to be closer to my dad. I don't know, I started doing some different stuff. I met Kurt Leduc somewhere, and we started telling stories. I started going to races with Kurt with his short course car and went to Baja races him in the Vanderways, helping them pit and chasing him around, John Gable. I ended up being like Kurt's crew chief for Lucas Short Course Races. I went to Crandon, Wisconsin for Kurt Leduc's retirement party last race, and had a fun time working with all those guys and doing stuff.

[00:51:54.510] - Mark Stahl

And then, in fact, when Ivan Stuart had his auction, when he closed up his business for his... What do you call those trucks that he had that class for?

[00:52:04.420] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, yeah, the Pro Truck class.

[00:52:06.710] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, Pro Truck class. I went to Ivan's auction just to hang out. It's funny because Ivan was selling all these big trophies, and he's like, Ivan, what are you getting rid of all those I have my trophies for? And it's like, Oh, I don't know. I don't have any place to put them. Anyway, I'm standing somewhere, and Rory Ward comes up behind me and, Hey, Mark Stone. And I said, Yeah. And I met him and said, I've seen stuff about you. Anyway, he goes, Hey, He says, I know where your old Chiniths 1,000 is. A friend of mine, Jeff Furrier and I, are going to buy it and restore it. And I said, Oh, that's cool. And then he goes, Oh, and then we're going to race it in the normal Mexican 1,000 next year. And then he goes, You know what? We should have you do the first leg. You want to do the first leg? And I'm like, Okay.

[00:52:53.490] - Big Rich Klein

Sure. Why not?

[00:52:55.510] - Mark Stahl

You talked me into it. So anyway.

[00:52:59.070] - Big Rich Klein

I bet that was pretty It was easy talk.

[00:53:01.340] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. It took me about two seconds. Like, Yeah, I'll do that. How could I say no? Because I was still enjoying Baha, and I heard about Nora. I think they had the one racing. Like, That is pretty cool. So anyway, Rory and Jeff started working on restoring it, and I started rounding up all kinds of parts that I had that still would work on it. I had a nut and bolts sponsor that would give me all the nuts and bolts, grade 8 bolts we could eat. I know I Rory and Jeff a super large flat rate post office box full of nuts and bolts to put on the car. They got the car done, and I went over to Rory's in Arizona, and we went out and test drove it, dialed in all the suspension and got it ready for the Nora race. A few months later, it was time to go to the race. They had me do the very first leg that started in Mexicali that year, and that went to San Felipe. I remember starting the race, they had no course markings or nothing, I think. Oh, and they had a little tiny GPS thing that was about two inches square was our mode of seeing where the course was.

[00:54:18.030] - Mark Stahl

And instead of course up, they had the course in their upside down. So you were going upside down the whole time on this little tiny gray screen thing.

[00:54:29.300] - Big Rich Klein

So when you needed to go left, you were actually going right.

[00:54:31.980] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, it was the best. Anyway, I'm going across Laguna Salada, and I hit this washout. And I was probably doing about 80. In the back, the car stood up on the nose, and it came out of this dish. I thought, Oh, my God, I'm going to endo this thing. Luckily, it sat back down, and I kept going. I'm trying to figure out where I'm going. I don't know, somehow I went over and I saw all these motorcycles were going along the edge of Laguna Salada, and I started following them. I found out later, the bikes. I think the bikes may have went on a different route than the motorcycles. But I'm wandering around aimlessly lost on Laguna Solada, looking for the course. Finally, I see dust out on Laguna Salada again on the side. So I went out on the course and started following them all and made it to San Felipe for the finish. It was a good day. Anyway, the race, they went in and continued, and I followed them all the way to La Pau. I thought, I'm going all the way to La Pau with you guys. This is too much fun.

[00:55:33.150] - Mark Stahl

So I followed them to La Pau and we went in our class. And then coming home, I'm going, This was a blast. I have to figure out how to do this. But I said, I still had all kinds of nine Ford were in for my stock car, NASCAR stuff, and all kinds of Ford parts with all the Ford engines I built. So I want to find... I said, I need to find a Class 8 truck to race, because when I was racing in Class 1 in the late '70s, early '80s, Class 8 was the badass class because they made so much noise and shot rocks everywhere when they went by. So I thought, I need to find a Class 8. So I started looking around on Race Desert, looking everywhere. And finally, I'm like, Here's Ivan Stewart's old truck. I said, Anyway, I contacted the guys, and they were up in Northern California. They e-mailed me a bunch of pictures of it. And I think they said, I don't know. I worked a deal with them and paid them some money to deliver it standing, and they go, We're buying a Class IX car, something down in, I don't know, Escondido or something.

[00:56:36.810] - Mark Stahl

I said, We can deliver it to you there. So they delivered it to me. And the thing was a complete mess. I had it probably within a month after the Nora Race, and so I had 11 months to get it restored and fixed before the Nora Race the next year. So I had the thing. They said they took well care of it, maintained everything on it. When I got it, it was all The whole thing was held together with zip ties and duct tape. It was the complete frame off restoration. I don't know, somehow I got a hold of Ivan Stuart, and Ivan Stuart came out, and he'd come out once a month when I was restoring it, seeing how things were going. And one day he came out, and we took the rear window off the cab, and Ivan Licks his finger, sticks it in the dust, and wipes the dust off it. And then he puts the dust in his mouth, and he goes, Yep, that's Baja dust on it.

[00:57:34.790] - Big Rich Klein

He's eating enough of that, I guess.

[00:57:36.990] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. And then anyway, I got it all done. And the Nora race started the next year. It started at the Tijuana Bullring, and it did just a parade route from Tijuana to Encinada. I asked, Ivan was there, got pictures with him, and I said, Ivan, do you want to drive this the first leg of the race? I figured I better give him the opportunity. Rory and Jeff gave me the opportunity in my car. And Ivan's like, Man, I would love to. But he says, I still have my deal with Toyota, so he says, I can't be driving around in a Ford. So I'm like, Okay. So anyway.

[00:58:15.320] - Big Rich Klein

I guess not. Sponsorships rule.

[00:58:19.800] - Mark Stahl

We didn't want to mess that deal up. And when I restored the car, I put three seats in it. And what I did for the next 10 years racing it is all the people that helped me in my racing career, I would let them know, Hey, we're going to race the Nora Mexican 1,000. Everybody come down, and you'll get a... I'm going to try and make it so everybody that comes down gets a leg in the truck every day that wants to. And my daughters would come out and ride and read this GPS in the center, and the co-rider seats would have other guys that helped me on my pit crew reading the route book. I mean, we just had a blast. It took us a while to get things going once we figured the truck out and what it needed. I think I won my class in the last six Nora races in a row before I won, and we won the Legends era four of those years. The Nora Race was a blast to do in that truck. It got so much attention. Everybody knew that truck. I know there was a few years, three quarters way down by, come around a corner, and there's Ivan standing there giving me a thumbs up.

[00:59:30.570] - Big Rich Klein

Nice.

[00:59:31.920] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, pretty cool.

[00:59:35.550] - Big Rich Klein

What would you tell somebody that, say, a young man came up to you and said, I've followed your career or I've seen your history. I want to become like Mark Stahl. What do I need to do? What would you tell somebody?

[00:59:58.630] - Mark Stahl

There's a lot of different The classes now. The motorcycle used to be the cheapest way to do it. I think now, I mean, motorcycles are still probably one of the cheapest forms of racing. And you can race like desert races, district 37, district 38, other races around America. But the side-by-side classes are really big now, too. I know people call them golf carts, but I have a side-by-side, and it's a lot of fun to go out and explore. And there's a lot of people that are doing doing major things, racing them, whether it's in Baja or the mint races, the high desert races or Dakar. Get one of those things and learn how to drive with it. And one of the most important things you need to learn how to do is get backing to help you do it. And a lot of people that I have... I read books on it many, many years ago, and there's a lot of companies that will supply you with parts to maintain your vehicle for stickers on a race car, and now social media. So you tell them what you want, I I need this to maintain my vehicle to be able to go to the races.

[01:01:18.290] - Mark Stahl

I will make sure I have a sticker on stickers on my race vehicle and chase vehicles if I can, and my fire suit for pictures. And I will mention you in every social media post that I do. And then work along doing that. It's a lot harder to get companies to give you money. But if you find the right person, and if you start getting successful, you can get that to happen, where you figure out, I need this amount of money to be able to go to this race, whether it's to pay the entry fee or to maintain the vehicle, and just keep plugging away at it. And Unfortunately, you go through a lot of wives, which has been my case. It's not because I was cheating on them. It's because you like those race cars more than me. It's, Well, those race cars don't talk back to me. They might beat me up now and then, but they don't talk back. You're working on those race cars 14 hours a day, trying to get them prepped so you can win.

[01:02:29.340] - Big Rich Klein

I know you've been married now around a year?

[01:02:34.820] - Mark Stahl

Yes.

[01:02:36.160] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. You're not racing UTVs, but you have a UTV, and you're enjoying that, going trail riding?

[01:02:44.570] - Mark Stahl

Yes. And we're members of a Tri-State ATV. It's in St. George, Utah. And they have a lot of powder puff rides, where the woman is supposed to drive the vehicle and the male just rides along and holds on tight and A change of roles.

[01:03:03.460] - Big Rich Klein

So are you down in Southwest Utah then?

[01:03:10.970] - Mark Stahl

Yes. Well, right now we have another house up in just south of Salt Lake City, an American Fork, and that's where I'm at right now. It's a little warm in St. George right now, like 110. But I tell people that's not hot. You should go down to Baja to some of the, like Diablo, Dry Lake, San Felipe area for the June score race. It can 120 there, no problem.

[01:03:31.770] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Yeah, my son lives in Hurricane Utah there, right by the Hurricane Sand Dunes.

[01:03:41.890] - Mark Stahl

Okay, Sand Hollow.

[01:03:43.260] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, Sand Hollow. In fact, he puts on a bigger event down there called Trail Hero. Oh, okay.

[01:03:50.460] - Mark Stahl

I go to that. I've been to that a couple of years in a row now.

[01:03:54.390] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, great. Then, yeah, him and his wife, Brandee, are down there in that area and run Trail Hero. Then they also help with the gala with the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame.

[01:04:09.810] - Mark Stahl

Oh, okay.

[01:04:10.930] - Big Rich Klein

She's the one that presents, comes up on stage with everybody. And then he helps us. As the the inductees are ready to go on stage, he goes out into the crowd, gets them and brings them up and stages them.

[01:04:27.330] - Mark Stahl

Okay. Well, shoot. Next time Do you come out for Sand Hollow?

[01:04:32.380] - Big Rich Klein

I do not, because I do an event. At the end of that event, I'm committed to do the Rebell Rally with Emily Miller, and it's an all-woman navigational rally that goes through California and Nevada and ends typically down in Southern California. So we do about 2,500 kilometers, 23 to 2,500 kilometers every year, over eight days doing this navigational rally.

[01:05:02.490] - Mark Stahl

Cool.

[01:05:03.410] - Big Rich Klein

But I'll see you at the gala this year if you're going.

[01:05:06.450] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, okay. What I'll do, too, is I need to get with your son because I go to the Trail Hero thing with the side-by-side now and just go out there exploring and trying to watch everything that's going on. There's so much it's almost impossible to see everything.

[01:05:22.530] - Big Rich Klein

Exactly. My partner puts on the rock crawling portion of that because that's what I've been doing in off road since 2000, was promoting rock crawling events, the trials type competition for four-wheel drive vehicles. And my partner, Jake Good, goes out and does the rock crawl portion of the Trail Hero event now. I did it for the first couple of years. And then, of course, I'm on the board of directors for the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame, so I'm really involved with the gala and everything going on over there.

[01:05:59.730] - Mark Stahl

Cool. Cool. Yeah, and tickets have just come available for that, haven't they?

[01:06:05.020] - Big Rich Klein

Yes, they have, and they're selling quickly, too.

[01:06:07.600] - Mark Stahl

Okay. I need to get some here. I will sign up for those this afternoon.

[01:06:13.050] - Big Rich Klein

There you go. It's a real popular class coming in this year. Twelve Inductees.

[01:06:18.630] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know a whole lot of those guys, knew some of them, unfortunately. Yeah, John Reddy took the pick when I won the 78 Baja 1000, John Reddy came to the... Mark saw Race Prep shop in Chula Vista and took the photo that was on the cover of Hot VW magazine.

[01:06:38.510] - Big Rich Klein

Nice.

[01:06:39.680] - Mark Stahl

It was all staged. It wasn't really during the race. It was two days after the race, and the car spot was clean. But we're out there doing it in the middle of the night at my shop, and it's raining. It's car sitting in the mud.

[01:06:52.060] - Big Rich Klein

I never got a chance to meet John, but you raced with Mike Perlman with Nora.

[01:07:01.510] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. Mike's a nut, too. Yes. Absolutely.

[01:07:07.250] - Big Rich Klein

It'll be good to be down there. Unfortunately, John passed away right after he learned that he was inducted into the hall.

[01:07:15.960] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. That's a shame.

[01:07:20.290] - Big Rich Klein

I wish that hadn't come about.

[01:07:24.800] - Mark Stahl

Yeah.

[01:07:25.880] - Big Rich Klein

Life happens.

[01:07:27.820] - Mark Stahl

Yeah. Well, Mark- I know. Well, it's what's really terrible. Okay, two years ago, I sat at the table with Johnny Johnson and his Sweetie pie, and a year later, he passed away. I think the last time I went I missed on the event last year because they changed the date on me and had something else. I think I was doing a trip back east to visit my kids. But anyway, the year before then, I sat at the table with Parnelly Jones and Ivan Stewart, and it's like, Parnelly's gone. It's like...

[01:08:05.540] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. Maybe I don't want to sit at your table.

[01:08:11.060] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, I don't know. I know.

[01:08:13.290] - Big Rich Klein

It's not you.

[01:08:14.750] - Mark Stahl

Am I the bad one? Like, holy smoke.

[01:08:16.770] - Big Rich Klein

No, no, no. I'm looking forward to meeting you and a lot of others that I've interviewed lately for the Hall of Fame. It's going to be a good event this year. It's going to big. We're expecting over 800 people to come in for the gala to see the 12 people inducted.

[01:08:40.890] - Mark Stahl

And you know what? I know you guys auction stuff off. I need to see If I have anything, I might be able to bring for you to auction off.

[01:08:48.290] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, that would be awesome.

[01:08:50.110] - Mark Stahl

I know I took some stuff there a couple of years ago. I can't remember what the heck it was. I've been trying to get rid of so much stuff I don't need anymore. You know what I mean?

[01:09:02.460] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Well, that memorabilia does really well at the auction, and it is our biggest fundraiser of the year. And eventually, we hope to have a Hall of Fame of our own, a location where we can actually put the cars that we have and a lot of the memorabilia that we've been given and all the history that we've collected, a place to it off.

[01:09:31.190] - Mark Stahl

Yeah, exactly. That'd be good.

[01:09:35.900] - Big Rich Klein

Well, Mark, if you come up with something that you want to donate, let me know or get a hold of Jen with Ormhoff, and we can make all that happen. I really appreciate you spending the time and talking about your history. It's been a great conversation, and I'm really looking forward to meeting you in person.

[01:09:58.910] - Mark Stahl

Okay, same Rich, and thanks very much for having me.

[01:10:02.260] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, so we'll see each other at the gala then.

[01:10:06.660] - Mark Stahl

Sounds good.

[01:10:07.640] - Big Rich Klein

All right. Thank you so much. Bye-bye.

[01:10:09.490] - Mark Stahl

You're welcome. Bye.

[01:10:11.990] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have, or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.