6 Ranch Podcast
Fishing in Mind, with Lael Paul Johnson
Lael Paul Johnson, a celebrated guide turned photographer, shares his fishing expertise in this episode. He details the 3-rod setup for efficiency, recounts captivating stories from Queen Charlotte Lodge, and offers insights on transitioning from guiding to capturing outdoor moments. The conversation also dives into essential Pacific Northwest gear, the journey of a Kansas native becoming an Olympic Peninsula guide, and the importance of diversity in the fly fishing community. This episode is a must-listen for anyone wanting to improve their fishing strategy, or gain valuable advice from a seasoned expert.
Find Lael on INSTAGRAM
Checkout FLYGYDE
Check out the new DECKED system and get free shipping.
Lael Paul Johnson, a celebrated guide turned photographer, shares his fishing expertise in this episode. He details the 3-rod setup for efficiency, recounts captivating stories from Queen Charlotte Lodge, and offers insights on transitioning from guiding to capturing outdoor moments. The conversation also dives into essential Pacific Northwest gear, the journey of a Kansas native becoming an Olympic Peninsula guide, and the importance of diversity in the fly fishing community. This episode is a must-listen for anyone wanting to improve their fishing strategy, or gain valuable advice from a seasoned expert.
Find Lael on INSTAGRAM
Checkout FLYGYDE
Check out the new DECKED system and get free shipping.
People try to have this mixed bag of rods. It is a mistake. It'd be like having a different brand arrow for everyone in your quiver.
Speaker 1:Like does that make any sense. That makes no sense. You're not going to learn what that does so like. Find what you like and then get a set. I tell people I do a lot of you know talks and you know PowerPoints and all that business about having three rods. That's a lot of efficiency, right? You're switching tips and heads and all the rest of that business. I just grabbed another rod out of my boat and I'm already in the water and I have it set up. I have three different setups for different types of water speed, all kinds of stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So I just grabbed a rod and go these are stories of outdoor adventure and expert advice from folks with calloused hands. I'm james nash and this is the six ranch podcast. For those of you out there that are truck guys like me. I want to talk to you about one of our newest sponsors, dect. If you don't know DECT?
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Speaker 1:You know, dude, people are busy out there bro. Yeah, so it's just nice. It packs up in my little uh, what are the little? The little side compartments on your backpack to go around your waist, the little waist pouches, that strap, you know whatever, I don't know what it's called.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's a fanny pack, but we don't really want to call it that. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:It's on the backpack.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:It's part of it pack son.
Speaker 2:No shame, I wore one in Mexico this year.
Speaker 1:You're growing up, man. I like it.
Speaker 2:I guess I just I have less to prove than ever. I'm not out here trying to impress anybody.
Speaker 1:Hawaiian shirt and a fanny pack dog that's living the dream, oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:Well, we are here at the Overland Expo in Redmond, oregon, with Lael Paul Johnson in the decked booth. Thank, you Welcome yeah day two of the show. Good to see you, man.
Speaker 1:Man, this is the best Dude. I didn't know you were gonna be here, but this is this made the drive and being in canada yesterday morning slaying hogs all worth the drive. So where were you in canada? Uh, I was at a. I was at a fishing lodge up in canada, up in, like the haida gai area. Okay, north bc you, you gotta take a plane and take a chopper to the lodge and all that stuff. Man, looking for a 40 to 50 pound salmon, king salmon, king salmon.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, did you find it?
Speaker 1:We hooked one man. We hooked a dragon yeah, the biggest that we landed was 28. It's the second trip. I was just there a month ago, so I went with one of my buddies.
Speaker 2:What's the name of the?
Speaker 1:lodge. It's called Queen Charlotte Lodge, queen Charlotte, queen Charlotte Lodge.
Speaker 2:That's like a famous old school lodge. Oh, dude, it's like it is Dude.
Speaker 1:There's a mountain that's up above the fireplace when you go into the main lodge. It's 83 pounds, bro and I it was a double. It was one fish of a double. Really, one fish was 83 and the other one was 35.
Speaker 2:No kidding, two fish on that size Couldn't believe it, so they were running two hooks on a line.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, it was just. They were running two rods, you know, one on the left side of the boat.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, gotcha gotcha. One on the right side. And both rods went off pounds of salmon in the boat right then.
Speaker 1:I really hope they didn't kill that fish. I don't think they did. I wouldn't want that on my soul. Are those big king salmon typically female or does it matter, male the bigger ones are males.
Speaker 2:Interesting that barking that y'all might be hearing in the background. That's Lil's dog.
Speaker 1:Noble. There's a lot of dogs. Noble, noble, yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know there's a lot of dogs at this show. I enjoy that about this show, but Noble's letting them know what's up this is Noble's booth right now.
Speaker 1:Step back, step back.
Speaker 2:So did you retain any fish on this trip?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we got some. We had one day where we were only allowed one fish a day as far as salmon, but we didn't have anything that was under 20 pounds. It was a good day a very good day.
Speaker 1:So it was me and my buddy that got invited up a month ago, kind of to see what the lodge was like. Promote it, show people what the fish is like. Dude. We roped them yeah, oh, my goodness, it was just— Just hauled them in. It was just an experience that I was not right, I didn't really know it. I've been to tons of lodges, dude, all over Canada, patagonia, been here, there, whatever, whatever. And it's like the level of service at this place is just bonkers because the fishing can suck. It's not the lodge is false, it's just fishing, it's just the water does what it does.
Speaker 2:And that's one of the things that I feel like really distinguishes a super high-quality outfit versus maybe one that doesn't have the experience or attention to detail. The highest-quality outfits are going to show a lot of attention to detail, to everything that they can control.
Speaker 1:Control what you can control and they do very well. Biggest moment for me. It might sound small but like dude we're out there fishing our butts off. You know all day and you know we we're in a self-guide boats. We've never been in the area, but my buddy that he's a really good saltwater fisherman. We're out there roping and we come back to the dock. You know, put the boat up, rope it up, you step off the boat and they give you a hot towel.
Speaker 1:That's got like eucalyptus scent on it and mint, and I'm like what I'm like just to wipe your hands off from the herring and wipe your face. I'm like this is unreal. Yeah, I had a blast and the fishing was incredible, so I definitely got best of both worlds. Fishing was like legendary. The weather treated us well. We were there in May which dude it can get spicy out there. I'm pretty sure even maybe the week after people might have not been able to fish every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was kind of wild, but we nailed it, man, it was unreal.
Speaker 2:That feels so good, especially like not everybody is spending a huge amount of their life outside, but for those that do, and you have to go, no matter what the weather is. It's the window man, as long as it's safe Right, Like you really appreciate when the weather's right for you. It was just I am on a heater of bringing bad weather when I go places.
Speaker 1:Well, you travel with me. I've been doing it. When we were coming back to the lodge the last day and we had 25 fish in the boat, it was just me and my buddy, like I'm, you know, filming a little bit and he's driving the boat oh, actually I'm driving the boat because I'm filming and he's just. I mean just one after another dude. I mean we dropped him in a place that had 40 feet of water. We had a double on the first drop. It's nuts. And we come back to the lodge on the last day and they're moving boats out and moving them out away from each other because it's going to get spicy like the next day. So they want the wind going any anywhere. You know you can go anywhere in the world, man, and it can be like awesome. You look at every picture that's just incredible, and then you could get there in the weather. It could just be crap.
Speaker 2:It's just what, you know, life outdoors is about do you think about moon phase when you're traveling for a trip?
Speaker 1:uh, um, yeah, yes and no, I'm. I look at it depends on what I'm doing. Really, you know what I'm saying. Like where am I at in the season? And like, out there I'm looking at moon phases, like what are my tides going to be? They're going to be big tides. You're going to move a lot of fish in. Look at, look at the, look at the wind. So, uh, I'm looking like where, where's the wind going to blow? The bait going to be blown inshore or is the bait going to be blown offshore? Am I going to be able to fish for fish in 30 to 50 feet of water, 60 feet of water, or am I going to have to go out offshore a little bit and fish in 120, 200 feet of water? You know, it's a little bit different. Yeah, I want to fish them by the kelp dude. That's where the hogs live, really, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:The big, big, big fish that can hide.
Speaker 1:That's how they get big. Are you having to battle sea lions up there? Yeah, there were a couple harbor seals that got a fish or two Dude. There were orcas out there like madness, Really oh yeah, I got some killer pictures of orcas dude.
Speaker 2:I saw orcas in the wild for the first time in my life last weekend when I was at that PFI dive school up in the Hood Canal and we were in Lillewop, Washington.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hood Canal is super cool.
Speaker 2:Super cool gorge and you've got salt and fresh water mixing together there a little bit, but mostly it's salt. And we saw killer whales just as we were getting into the water and they said that was the first time they'd seen them that far south in 10 years. Wow, yeah, so that's kind of cool. I guess I don't know wow, we, yeah, we gotta we gotta show they're an amazing animal.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, man, it's. It's. Yeah, that's why I was. I was thinking about it and I really wanted to do it. I didn't have a wetsuit but I wanted to get out into the water and like it's really cool. You know, I have like the half dome on my Aquatech housing and I wanted to get into the water and, you know, have somebody with a fish on and then you take a picture of the fish underneath the water and the boat above the water and all that rest of the stuff and, dude, there's like fin Right and I'm like, ah, kind of glad I didn't get in there. I, I I hear they don't really get after people, but I really don't want to test that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Don't provoke them. I don't really want to get well, I mean especially there's a salmon in the water, Right, Right.
Speaker 1:They're like he's going to is your profession uh, I am a fly fishing guide and photographer. Um, the photographer is, uh, becoming a little bit more, um, I'd say it's, it's, it's taken over the life a little bit more, which is something that I'm uh, you know, very happy about. You know, I I get into those places in life where, like you, learn something and you learn it well, and I'm just so thirsty for learning, right, and it's not that I can't learn anything fishing, um, but I've just done a lot with the spay fishing you know, the two-handed fly fishing, and I'm at a place where, like, I've had a lot of quality catches myself, I've guided a lot of people on the fish that you know have made them happy and me proud in my career, and there's a lot of pictures that I haven't taken of these epic moments because I'm guiding yeah and I'm I'm kind of kind of sort of making a switch over to the photography thing.
Speaker 2:So yeah, fly fishing guide, photographer, and we're trying to say photographer first and fly fishing guide second there's something interesting about burnout and guiding that that I'm starting to realize more and more and I I've realized it to the point that I'm telling this to other guides and that is that the burnout happens without any notice. Oh, dude, like you don't feel it coming on, you don't feel like, oh man, I'm starting to lose my passion for elk or for salmon, or for spay fishing or for whitetail, whatever it is. It just happens. And then all of a sudden it's like I'm no longer interested.
Speaker 1:I think it's. I think it's really like I I'd actually want to say it's a change of focus rather than burnout. At least I'm speaking for myself, like like when I go out steelhead fishing, in general myself, I'm just it's, I'm super excited. And even the same thing, like when I go out guiding love it. I want to get everybody the best opportunity and experience they can ever have.
Speaker 1:And then you get in, you get in the middle of it, and really what's happened for me lately is is that I love the photography aspect of it, of capturing these incredible moments, and I've been out on these, you know, guiding and whatnot. I'm like God. I just want that. It's not dude, screw Instagram. It's not even about that at all. It's like there are these moments in my life that I have the opportunity to capture for me. That's my number one thing. Yeah, you can do stuff with it later, but like I, I'm I'm not able to to soak up all these moments in life and that has become like a big interest of me and I've really appreciated the times that I've been able to be the fly on the wall watching somebody else do their thing and I got the cam some of the best portrait photographers throughout history are people who had to spend a bunch of time with their subject and really get to know them before they could take that iconic picture.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like you need to know a species, know a fish, know a place, know the boat, in order to take a good picture? 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. So, especially like when you're dealing with animals, you got to be I mean, you got to be a step ahead. You know how am I going to capture it, what is this fish going to do, what lens do I need, what frame rate do I need? If I'm recording something Like there's so many things, it's like where am I going? And really it's like you got to pack all this stuff in your camber bag to make sure that you're ready for it in those situations. So I like the, I like the pre-planning, but I like I got so many years of guiding in that I know what's going to happen. Right, I know. I know when I'm going down, you know I run the safe. I'm watching somebody, somebody else guide or I'm watching somebody fish. I'm like I know what cast you, I know what cast you need to make, and usually if I'm shooting somebody like I mean I trust in your ability to get fish, you know, or make a cast or whatever. So it's a lot of that. You know forethought about what's going on. So yeah.
Speaker 1:I think you need to know the craft well in order to be ahead of the game to take the correct picture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Anybody who's been guided a lot has probably been in a situation in fly fishing where their guide has counted down and then on zero they catch a fish Right.
Speaker 1:Guide, not guide. But there are moments, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know, I've done that too where I know a river, so so well, and I see somebody make that cast and I go three, two, one set, and then that fish is there and they're like, how did you do that? Well, it's because I know this really well and, uh, it's. It's interesting how intimate you can get with the knowledge of how complicated that entire environment really is.
Speaker 1:You're in tune with it so you can still and I believe like you can still be in that exact moment. So you're, you're counting down right, you got your three, two, one, I'm on the camera and I've changed my focus, I've changed my shutters. I'm rock, I'm ready, like, eat it, eat it, jump, do whatever you need to do, I'm ready. So it's that that type of anticipation of knowing what's going to happen and you're ready for it. So, yeah, it happens with the guide, um, and it can happen with the photographer, and when that relationship's so dominant, you get some beautiful images and you know, video. It's like that's where the best moments are from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, since we're here at the deck booth, uh, there are some folks who submitted some questions for us. Cool, here's the first questions for both of us. Uh, uh, you can go first. What advice do you have for someone just getting started in hunting and fishing?
Speaker 1:Uh, my advice for fishing is pick your, pick your favorite piece of water. I don't care where it is, whatever's going on. Pick your favorite piece of water and learn that piece of water like, like you know it intimately, like you could call a fish you know, um. And once you learn that piece of water, try to find the similarities in other pieces of water that are just like at your home water. That'll really, really help you. If you're, if you're running around honestly in in seeing different water, in different water, in different water, you're just not going to understand. You know, like the little nuances about this specific piece that you can apply to other places and it can take you years, like it took me years to be able to be a successful fishing traveler, right, right, if you don't know what's going on at home, why are you going to know what's going on in the next country or state? You know it's not going to happen.
Speaker 2:Facts Absolutely facts country or state.
Speaker 1:You know it's not gonna happen, facts right. So take, take your time and learn a piece of water. It might be, it might be boring, but, like you know, for a little while, but it will pay dividends my advice is find a mentor.
Speaker 2:A lot of people either start out by themselves or they start with a buddy who's also a novice and they spend a lot of good years sort of fumbling around and spending money on gear that they don't need.
Speaker 2:True, making a lot of mistakes and mistakes are wonderful, they're, they're in, they're a really critical part of the process but go, try and find that mentor, that silverback that's been doing it for 50 years and and maybe, maybe it's an old guy or an old gal that that still wants to go, but um, might have like physical limitations, so that's something that you can provide to them. It's like I will help you walk down the riverbank if you'll sit there in a chair and, you know, tell me about all the ways that I'm getting this wrong. Same thing with with hunting, really, with anything like. Really try to find that skilled mentor. And there are people who are going to be willing to help you and are just going to be excited that you have a passion for the thing that they've committed their life to understanding.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And they will share that knowledge with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hope to be one of those people. I really do, I think that you already are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're just going to get crustier. Yeah, we call it salty in my game.
Speaker 1:Get salty. I'm not telling you, son. Go out there and get on Struggler Street for me, man.
Speaker 2:Okay, this next question is for me how does your time balance out between ranch work and guiding? Uh, to be honest, man, I'm not guiding all that much anymore. I I guide. You know some bear stuff uh, a few weeks of archery elk, a few weeks of rifle elk, and, as far as balance, I am completely committed to whatever I'm doing at that time.
Speaker 2:Uh, I do not have the ability to multitask in the slightest, like I can't chew gum and tie my shoes at the same time. I'm going to get one of those wrong. So, whatever it is at the time, I have to be completely committed and focused to that and know that I have the support in the those other aspects of my life that you know and those other aspects of my life that, whatever happens there, will get taken care of, and I can just give everything that I've got to what I'm doing. So, whether that's ranching, whether it's podcast, whether it's guiding, I've got to go all in on everything that I'm doing. Right then, correct, yep, correct, okay, lael, yeah, what are some of your go-to pieces of gear for fishing in the PNW climate?
Speaker 1:Oh, right, oh well, I guess we can. I'm a Sims guy, I'm a Sims pro, and I mean zippered waders, man Dude.
Speaker 2:That is an aspirational piece of gear.
Speaker 1:Dude, it's really a game changer. People don't really understand how they got a price tag on them, but really, what I look at it is like with the zippered waders. It honestly lets me stay hydrated like I want to. And I don't look like a crazy person trying to get out of a straight jacket to take a leak. It's actually more important than you think it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, because you got layers on layers you want to drink water.
Speaker 1:Because this is the truth is, dude, you don't want to be standing. This truth is, you don't want to be standing in the middle of a run. And then you're like, dang, I've got to get out With your zippered waders. If it comes to it, swing, you got 30 45 seconds, let it, let it loose. Hopefully you don't get a grab in that moment, you know. But like you can kind of you know, take care of your business, but it'll actually help you drink water, I think a little bit better.
Speaker 2:I noticed a big difference that's smart and pretty important, and, man, you've got to drink water when it's cold out too. Oh yeah, people forget that you do, you just got you got, you got to stay hydrated.
Speaker 1:So now I mean now we'll get into the other stuff. It's like um islander reels from vancouver, uh island. Canada is like the spay reel that I, that I um, that I use a lot and I use them for a lot of my other single they make a center pin reel.
Speaker 1:They do, dude, that's what. So the reason I'm with that company is like they make mooching reels yeah, that I was fishing with up in canada, you know, when you're trolling for salmon. They make um, uh, single hand, uh, rod reels and they make spay reels. You know different sizes. They're pretty much very similar reels. But to have that mooching, mooching reels, fly fishing reels and centerpin, which I literally do, all of that stuff, I'm a fly fishing guy but, dude, I'll, I'll throw bait with the best of them, man, I just I want to go get fish, but my focus is fly fishing.
Speaker 2:I got really into centerpins for a while and I loved it, man, and it was during a time when I was very ride-or-die fly fishing.
Speaker 1:There you go, and people were not necessarily a fan of me centerpin fishing Because, dude, I could work 150 yards of a run.
Speaker 2:I'm catching fish that are in somebody else's business, you know, and it is so deadly right. I think it's the closest thing to a drag, an actual drag, drag free drift, yeah, so the thing is is like, with their reels, like they are made so well, right the tolerances.
Speaker 1:Like I mean, dude, there's reels that you're like, oh my god, I'd love to have this real. And they're like, no, it's not perfect, so we won't sell it. Yeah, and it's just it that you're like, oh my God, I'd love to have this reel and they're like, no, it's not perfect, so we won't sell it. Yeah, and it's just it's, they're incredible reels, so like, that's, that's an important part. And you know, pick, pick in the right spay rod for you. I'm not going to say any, you know specific companies but, like, picking the right spay rod for your ability makes a big difference and your style of fishing. I'm an aggressive caster. I like to move fast. I know what's going on with the water. I want to cover it fairly quickly because I want to get to the next place, but I want to cover it efficiently. I'm not rushing when I make a decision to make a cast. I want to pick it up, put it out there and let it swing and work on down. I think I get maybe 20% 30.
Speaker 2:I have my favorite spay rod and I don't think that Winston even makes this anymore, but it's a Winston 11-foot 9-inch, 7-weight and it was gifted to me by a guy from Winston and you know my degree is in literature and writing. He and I went to college together.
Speaker 2:He studied literature as well and I was a tank officer in the Marine Corps and he said, if a fly rod could be a tank officer with a literature degree, it would be this rock. Okay, and I think that that's a really lovely description, and I think that spay rods especially really do need to match your physical ability your water, but also your personality.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's a really personal item.
Speaker 2:It is and you've got to be aligned with that rod and everything that it can do. But yeah, and you know I'm not crazy about brands in fly rods at all, because I do think that you need to find that rod that matches you, you do.
Speaker 1:And I say there's, I mean you can go out and drop some coin, man, if you want to Dude. And then there's also rods that don't cost that much, that have like the soul that you need for your ability, but you're going to develop a style this is the best way I explain it like when you're trying to start off on something. If you like spey fishing in the first place, don't start cheap, just make that your rod.
Speaker 1:Make it, your rod, like honestly, just spend the money, but also, like I put it in like the context of like cars right, if you do not know how to drive a stick shift, do not buy a Ferrari.
Speaker 1:You don't know how you're not going to get. Whatever that thing can do Like it's not, it's not going to work for you, right? So don't don't go out. Don't go out and do that. You know. Figure out, figure out how to drive stick first and then get a Ferrari or Lambo. Go out there and do that. But you know yeah, I.
Speaker 2:I actually have a friend that you know at the time was in that situation. So he'd bought a Ferrari and I saw it in his garage and I was like can we drive that thing, man? And he's like I suck at driving this car Just jerking, just jerking, the clutch man. But we did man. We drove it down to Dick's Sporting Goods and bought some more shrimp and went out and caught some salmon.
Speaker 1:That's perfect, it was awesome, it was awesome.
Speaker 2:Okay. Next question is for me uh, James, do you stay connected with fellow vets? Absolutely, Uh, and not just people that I served with. Uh, I, I tried to give as much as respect as I can to a veteran of any service branch, even including the Air Force. Wonderful.
Speaker 1:I'm an Army boy over here yeah.
Speaker 2:But no, I've got so much respect for people that stepped up and served and I want to help them as much as I can.
Speaker 2:I took a veteran spearfishing last week, a guy that I don't know a lot, and he had a great time and I had a great time, and it doesn't have to be more than that, like, just kind of be there for each other and show that respect. And then for the guys that I did serve with, yeah, I do try to stay connected with them and check in on them and make sure that they're living all right and just let them know that I'm there, that they're living all right and you know, just let them know that that I'm there for them. If, if they need something, yeah for sure, awesome. And then, on that same note, a little language tactic is if you say what can I do to help you, people will typically respond with nothing Like'm good, I've got it. If you say, how can I help you, then that changes stuff and it makes them think about it a little bit more, and that's true they might come back with an answer yeah, um and uh.
Speaker 2:A lovely gentleman taught me, taught me, that that distinction in phrasing and it's made a big difference and I I think that a lot of times people do need help and if you ask them how you can, just you can activate that critical thinking element in their mind a little bit more and they might come up with.
Speaker 1:We all. We all need help.
Speaker 2:You just you need a moment to think about it, yeah yeah, uh, lael, what sparked your passion for fishing and how long have you been doing it?
Speaker 1:I've been fishing since. I've been like four, four or five years old.
Speaker 2:This is such a ho-hum question, yeah man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's what's kind of a wild story though. Like I'm from Kansas dude yeah, you know, grew up in the Midwest I'm like how do I turn into like a steelhead and salmon guide fly fishing and you're from Kansas?
Speaker 2:right. And in the.
Speaker 1:Olympic Peninsula Dude. Yeah, so this is a wild story. So there was a show in the 80s called Marty Stauffer's Wild America. Yeah, I might have talked about this before, anyway. So I watched this show as a kid it was on PBS, a public channel, or whatever like that when I'm seven, eight years old and they had this episode. It had bears and wolves and salmon and elk and all the rest of stuff and I just saw this kind of. There was fishing in the show, but I was watching like bass fishing shows at the same time, you know, instead of saturday morning cartoons. That's the kind of kid I was right and uh, this just was like dude, I was like that's what I want to be in the forest, like that's, that's epic, right, so long story short, you know.
Speaker 1:Later on I joined the Army. I got trained as a 91 Delta operating room specialist in the hospital doing surgery, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then my civilian job I don't have any more as a surgical technologist. I was a traveler, right, traveling around the country. Well, seattle was my second travel place. So I came out to Seattle and hung out and one of the guys that I worked with at work went out and uh, asked me to go fishing, and it was, you know, from the midwest or whatever like that. I had a bass rod, right yeah, and the salmon, a pink salmon, broke my bass rod a pink set broke my favorite bass and I was like bro and it was like because the thing is in the midwest bro, like salmon comes in a can dog right, like you know, you know, and anyways, and I was.
Speaker 1:This is the little one, dude, I was all about it, bro.
Speaker 2:Did it break on the hook set? Yeah, dude, I smoked it. Bro. Did you get the big babe Winkleman hook set on a pink?
Speaker 1:I gave him the bass right and it broke my rod and I was like this is epic, I landed the fish, you know, like so anyway, and I was like this is unreal, it's actually accessible. I live in Seattle. There are these places that are around I can actually get out, and I can actually get out and try this and go. And I literally just went out, bro. I mean I've done some. Dude. I would never recommend the wild shit that I did. No, I wouldn't say that. But I really went out and got after it, dude, because my passion for fishing is so deep within who I am, and went out fishing with friends and was able to get them into fish. And then I was like you know, I'm going to try this guiding thing. Yeah, like who does that? You, I guess. So I tried the guiding thing and here we are, like 11 years later. But that's my story, dude.
Speaker 2:Dude, that's awesome. Yeah, that's a great story. That's so much better than what I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 1:No, it's not. It's more interesting, it's deep dude.
Speaker 2:That's a question that I really shy away from in interviews because it's so common Like, oh, how did you get into this? And people that have been on shows that have been interviewed a bunch before they're like, ugh, but dude, that's a great story's I love my story.
Speaker 1:It's, I mean, it's, it's, you know, it's funny. So I was actually doing, I was doing an interview for this. Is this another part of the story? I was doing an interview for philson in 2020 because they did like in, uh, like a philson journal article on me or whatever, and they were asking me you know, the question and I'm telling them what's going on and I, I, so I looked up the show.
Speaker 1:Right, I hadn't seen it since I don't know 12 years old or something like that. So my favorite episode was on the olympic national park. Really that I guide in all the time like that. My favorite, my favorite place in the world is fishing in the olympic national park and that was my episode. That was the one that got me where I'm at. So, like it's destiny dog, it was, yeah, love it that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. Okay, lael, what's special about PNW fishing compared to other areas? You've traveled to fish all over the world, but you've definitely got to fishing around home. We've talked about this a little bit, but what is special about the Pacific Northwest? I?
Speaker 1:have literally traveled all around the world trying to catch some of the biggest fish that you can catch on a spay rod, and I've caught them at home. Yeah, that's the real deal. And the access is so much easier than going to these other locations. Sure, I mean you can drive. There's a lot of places that you can drive. You can go to Canada, you can drive to Alaska if you want to. Yeah, it depends on where you live. It's going to take you a long time. You can fly into Seattle, man, and I can have you on the water. You fly into Seattle just an hour hour and a half drive. Yeah, I mean like to some of thehead, and I mean maybe lucky 50, 60-pound king Bro.
Speaker 1:That's unreal, you know and dude, I've flown down to Patagonia and been to Chile. Like you know, I go to Canada all the time and you know these are, you know, sometimes 15 to 20-hour drives and flying to Seattle or if you're somewhere out in the area, you know where you just want to take, like you know where you just want to take, like you know I don't know, six, seven, eight, maybe 10 hour drive, and then you know you have the access to it. So I think that's really special. It's that class of fish in the um, the access to it, you know it's that that makes a big difference can we talk about race a little bit?
Speaker 2:oh yeah uh, how has like, have you ever gotten shade, or? Or do you feel like? You feel like like racism has affected you one way or another in fly fishing?
Speaker 1:oh, it has it has.
Speaker 1:Well, this thing is like when I, when I jumped in and this is just me, like I've, I've, I've faced racism, but it's kind of like I I really like kind of just let it blow over, because I'm like, bro, if you actually knew me, I don't think you'd be that way. Like, if you took a second, you know what I'm saying and I haven't had a lot of interactions, but I've had enough that, like, I'm not the guy to piss off. I'm not going to try to beat you up, but I'm going to make you pissed off that every time you see me I got one on or my guy has one on. Yeah, that affected me, yeah, you pissed me off enough to work as hard as I wanted to to be like, oh damn, I can't really say anything about that guy. That that was one of my things. Um, the other thing that I guess for racism was is like I didn't.
Speaker 1:When I started being a fly fisherman and like really being out in the northwest for salmon and steelhead, there wasn't anybody that looked like me that was out there, right, right. So I didn't have anybody to look to as like an example of this, that and the other. And then, as the years kind of went along and I've really been thinking about this. I was like, if I stop fishing, who's there in that space and I'm not saying there's not other people out there, but like I'll toot my own horn. Dude, I hold on to some hogs, right, so in that space, and I'm not just holding big fish for a black guy, you know, like I've got some quality catches and I've had some, you know, from my clients as well, and I've kind of looked at like the, the importance of you know, exposure, you know of it to inspire other people to want to come out there.
Speaker 1:Because I do remember what it was like when I was going out there in the beginning, like trying to learn stuff. It wasn't, it wasn't so friendly, it was and nobody really in like the world is out there just handing out all kind of secrets like hey, man, come and jump on my boat and come with me, you know. But there were some days where it just felt a lot more difficult than uh, I believe it might have been for some other people and there was a. There was a time where I lived at a uh, I lived at a guide cabin and that was that's. That was, that was sucks. It was one of those. Like I live here and you guys obviously are not vibing with the color of my skin.
Speaker 1:That does suck yeah, but, like I said, I'm sitting here with you man doing what I'm doing, so it didn't affect me in a negative way.
Speaker 2:Something that I caught wind of was that you were being criticized and people were saying that you were getting opportunities.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Because you're black and dude. I think that that's so freaking crazy that people are thinking that and I know it's just coming from a place of jealousy, but that sucks.
Speaker 1:It does and somebody can make up in their mind like somebody got this, somebody got that. You know this happened, because this I mean you can make up all kinds of reasons. Yeah, you know. And my answer to that is like how many ads have you seen me in in, whatever I'm doing, whatever opportunity where I'm not holding a fish? Answer that question.
Speaker 2:Answer that question.
Speaker 1:And the thing is got. You think guiding's hard. You think going out fishing on your own's hard. That's cakewalk. Do an ad where somebody else is directing your show and you got to catch one and, mind you, they give you 15 minutes to fish. Yeah, it's, you're not out there, all you're. It's. It's not a party day, you're not hanging out with your home. It's not like this. This is catch on demand and I have done that many times.
Speaker 2:You're right, dude. The pressure in those scenarios is incredible. In hunting it can be a lot the same, where you know if I'm on a professional hunt and it's being filmed and a brand is shelled out, you know $60,000, $70,000, $120,000 for this entire package to make it happen and I'm getting ready to press the trigger. I'm basically looking over my shoulder and saying I bet you my career, I make this shot. It's a lot of pressure dude I had.
Speaker 1:We just we just did the deck that had, right, yeah, and uh, we were, uh we were out like north of seattle, you know like an hour and a half, and like we go through the whole thing. We're there in the morning. You know, out in the dark getting it rock and roll, we're getting the shots. It's just killer ad dude, like they crushed it. Yeah Right, and I'm like I'm shuttling people up river in my jet boat to get people you know I can position they're flying the drone, they're doing. Really, what it is is like I have to find a place in the river, number one that I can get to with the time period that we have, but you know what's actually going to be fishy. Yeah, I don't usually make that choice wrong.
Speaker 1:So there's, a fish in the ad.
Speaker 1:And photogenic and photogenic man, right, so, yeah, it's got to be the right. There's a lot of things you got to put together, but, like that level of pressure is like I'm trying to remember what my first ad was. I'm not sure what my first ad was, but, like man, there's honestly nothing that gets my heart beating like this, because this is like if I don't do it, well, everybody's going to see it Right, like if I caught a fish, they're not going to not put it in the ad, right, right, like I skunked yeah, it didn't happen and like most of all of the stuff that I've done, there's some fish that's in there and it's typically not, you know, I haven't landed a monster, but even I had a movie in the fly fishing film tour that talks about my little bit of you know, my story and a little some of the stuff I've gone through as a black man being a fishing guide. I'm called Visibility, right, we fish for five days. There's three fish that are caught in the film.
Speaker 1:You're doing this stuff on camera, man, this is, it's not easy, it's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure Because you can, you know, especially I'm a working guide. Yeah, you know, with the guy. There's a lot of there's a lot of pressure. I like it though. I enjoy it. I settle into it. What do you drive?
Speaker 2:I have a f-150 trimmer okay, and do you have a deck system?
Speaker 1:I do have a deck system on it?
Speaker 2:how do you use it like real life, not not selling people, not advertising, like how do you actually so my so the the thing that I just figured out.
Speaker 1:Dude, I'll start with this, so this. So I have a bunch of camera equipment. Okay, right, so my whole left side of my drawer system is full of camera equipment. I have it set out with my drone tripod flashes, then I have like a lens box and then I have another. What is it? The half rack?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the half rack's the big one, the sixers, the sixer.
Speaker 1:The sixer is full of full of all of my like gopro stuff, you know, mounts, I mean this is like daily. I'm on, I'm on my road trips, I'm going out guiding, I get to go shopping in the morning every single day. If I'm riding on the road, I can hop out of my truck, grab my camera gear, epic right, um, on the other side, uh, I got all my like, uh, emergency supplies for like road recovery, like you know, like three or four dyneema ropes and they're like, um, not a come along but a snatch blocks and all the rest of that business. And I I don't get into that often because the truck doesn't get stuck that much, which is great, um, and then I have well, if you're using emergency stuff, often you're not living right, right, right, you're not living right.
Speaker 2:And then, and then I have well, if you're using emergency stuff, often you're not living right, right, you're not living right and then and then in the other half rack up above there.
Speaker 1:That just has like the snap on lid. I have actually a bunch of like tools in it that actually you know switching hitches and the rest of that business and I have a DeWalt power washer okay in there.
Speaker 2:What? Why?
Speaker 1:well, I'm sponsored I'm sponsored by ford, that's that. You know, it works with the dead stuff, uh, deck stuff.
Speaker 1:But uh, I got this, this, uh, battery operated power washer so when I'm ripping through the mud and I it actually gets dirty on these road trips. I can take that thing out and I got a lightener rack on the back of my rig also. Okay, and I hooked one of the shower systems up to the power washer and I can clean the truck, so it makes my pictures look a little bit better. So it's not completely gnarly you know, that's nice.
Speaker 1:No, it's daily life, man, I'm in that thing daily. Oh dude, I'll tell you a story. So I was going up to Canada the other day and I left something a little more powerful than bear spray in my.
Speaker 2:Oh bro, I was like I almost crossed the border with my 10 mil, and I do my hard because it's in my deck and I went and took my camera gear out because I was packing to go to the lodge and it just sits in there.
Speaker 1:It's just like. You know, it's no big deal. And I stopped at my buddy's house, you know to like, you know to put them in my rig I hadn't even opened it and goes, if you try to explain that.
Speaker 2:You know, I bet it happens 10 times a day that somebody just forgets. But it's still a problem, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we wouldn't have made the flight and this, that it would have been some trouble, that would have been drama. Yeah but, yeah, I love the thing. It's just like once you have a deck and this is not a plug this is once you have a deck. You cannot have a truck without one it doesn't work. It's not the same.
Speaker 2:It's not the same truck and I told somebody that yesterday. They're like what are the, what are the drawbacks? And I was like find one that that, once you have it, that you're gonna need one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely every vehicle that you have forever, yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:Um, there's just, there's no going back. No, um, and uh, and I've I've found that to be true with, with everybody like they, they commit to having that and if they sell their vehicle with one in it as soon as they get another one.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, absolutely. What do you got?
Speaker 2:man, it's pretty similar like on on one side I've got whatever tools I need for the task at hand, and you know whether that's rifles, archery equipment, um, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:I've got dog snacks um, oh, yeah, so every time, uh, I pull a drawer out if my dog's there, he's gonna get a treat. And then the other side is all emergency kit. Um, so I've got my, my first aid kits, my recovery kits, uh, so that I've got work on one side, emergency on the other. I've usually got a shovel strapped to the top, and then sometimes, if it's winter time, for sure I will have some of those traction boards like everybody has, and I used to carry tire chains with me everywhere that I went, yeah, and man, I just don't anymore, because if it's that bad I don't want to keep going, I just don't want to get out, no.
Speaker 2:And those traction pads are badass.
Speaker 1:You just back up and turn around and leave. They are awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're light, and they're tough.
Speaker 1:No, they're, they're light and they're tough. No, they're super tough. I I got two sets of them on on mine. I got a. I was trying to use those uh, you know, those locking clips that they make for them. Yeah, I couldn't get mine to work. I kept breaking. I kept breaking them, like putting them on. I don't know what I was doing wrong. So I just I got some big bolts, I guess, like some 5, 8, 10 bolts, and then, like you know, I got my little tool set in the back of them. But it's you got to really want to steal mine if you want to get on it this Overland Expo is kind of wild man.
Speaker 2:I've never been to one of these before. I haven't either. It's my first. People spend so much money on Overlanding oh my god have you got to walk around the show much?
Speaker 1:no, not yet, man. I've just been hanging out here at the deck booth, but I'm gonna go see some things.
Speaker 1:This is a new world for me. I'm in the fishing world. I'm going to go see some things. Yeah, I'm just. This is a new world for me because, like you know, when I'm in the fishing world, I'm in the iCast and all these other big fishing shows and I'm going around seeing a lot of people that I know, you know, and products that I've been fans of and all the rest of the stuff. But there's so many products out at a show like this that I don't know anything about it.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:So being and I do it I get gnarly when I'm the places I'm trying to go to find steelhead. I didn't know I was like I am an overlander. That's just what I have to do to get to the water. That's just part of the game. You know. There's some people that, specifically, are just driving around, you know, trying to do the overland thing, which is epic.
Speaker 2:But I always got a goal, man, if there's not chrome rainbow, I'm not probably going. Okay, we got some more questions rolled in. Yeah uh, best river you ever fished on that that's tough to quantify.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, queets river in the olympic national park. Okay, hands down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hands down I'm not, I'm not gonna say my favorite river, I'll say it I can give you my rod, my boat and whatever.
Speaker 1:I've been on too many years in there. You can. If you can get them like me, you belong out there.
Speaker 2:I don't, I don't bother me. Yeah, I, I know, I know for a fact that I can't, but uh, no, I'm not. I'm not gonna say my my favorite river, but I will say that that it has has more to do with getting to know the water and the rocks that that water is moving over, and the insects that come off of it and the fish that move through it, than it does like where it's at or like what those things are actually composed of. I think that that knowledge and intimacy is what makes a favorite for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1:The reason that this turned into my river and this is the truth is the river blows out, I don't know, six, seven times a year. Yeah, so you could see me hanging on to a dragon on Tuesday, right, it'll rain, and that run is completely gone on Friday, yeah, and that's like fishing that river for as many years as I've had. That's what made me a good fisherman. It's a glacial system, so, like my favorite place that I've been catching them at, you know, and it can last, you know, a week and a half. It changes, so it's a new system yeah so that I love it.
Speaker 2:Man, you never fish the same river twice no yeah, no, there there's, you know, a section of river that flows through the sixth ranch, uh, and that that water is my home so that's that's very much my favorite, but I'm not going to say the name of it. Okay, uh, difference between premium and budget rods how much does it matter? How about reels?
Speaker 1:Rod is the most important. You've got to start actually getting into fish to need a rod or, excuse me, to need a reel to stop a fish, Right, and you can get click and paw reels that don't have any drag on them in the first place. But, like I'd say, your difference is like you'll find some. Then there's some quality $500, $600 rods. The rods that I fish like they're $1,500. Yeah, you know, and I got four of them. You know, and I'd say this is really important, People try to have this mixed bag of rods. It is a mistake people try to have this mixed bag of rods. It is a mistake. It'd be like having a different brand arrow right for everyone in your quiver like does that make any sense?
Speaker 1:that makes no sense. You're not going to learn. You're not going to learn what that that does. So like, find what you like and then get a, get a set um. I I always I tell people I do a lot of um, you know talks and you know powerpoints and like business about having three rods. That's a lot of talks and PowerPoints and all that business about having three rods. That's a lot of efficiency. Right, you're switching tips and heads and all the rest of that business. I just grabbed another rod out of my boat and I'm already in the water and I have it set up. I have three different setups for different types of water speed, all kind of stuff like that. So I just grabbed a rod and go yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think it's kind of an interesting progression and I can speak more to the single hand side. But when you start out, I don't care if it's a thousand dollar rod or a fifty dollar rod from from walmart.
Speaker 2:Your, your abilities are going to be about the same, no matter what and then, as your skills improve, you can level up and you'll get to the point where you need a better rod to perform at a higher level. Then you're going to get to a point, if you keep progressing, where you can go back to that $50 rod and you can still whip on them with it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So what I would say as far as advice to answer this question whatever you do, just make sure it's got a great warranty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true. You're going to break the damn thing. That is true.
Speaker 2:So I don't care how much you're spending If it doesn't have a good warranty and if that company doesn't honor the warranty, then don't buy that rod. Yeah, that's very true. Okay, and then reels. You know we've talked about reels a little bit. The best and smoothest drag on any fly reel I've ever used is the palm of my left hand. So a lot of times a reel is is there to hold the line. If you're getting into big fish that are taking line, you need a premium reel. If you're in saltwater situations, you need a super premium reel. And if you just want to buy once and cry once, buy that.
Speaker 1:Buy that good reel and it will last you your whole damn life well, I would say I would say this and there's, this is the, this is a real thing, this is this isn't really a plug, this is more like a situation of I I'm an islander, real guy. Yeah, right, they have cork drag on them and I've been able, like when I go on saltwater trips. So there's a clutch in there that's got the cork on it where you turn the dial and it clamps down and it pumps the drag or makes the drag heavier. You can switch those out every day of fishing, so you can have like a new clutch in there every single day, right, so it's all working. You know like it's supposed to and you can oil it and all the rest of that business.
Speaker 1:So, long story short is, I went to Mexico and landed an 85-pound rooster on one of my guide reels yeah, on one of my guide reels and I was just like this is insane. I mean hour and 10-minute fight. And then I take that same reel and I'll catch a 25-pound steelhead on it. We're catching 10, 15-pound coho. You know all this stuff. So I like the simplicity of a cork drag because you can actually mess with it on a trip. If you get a what is it? Disc drag, screw that thing up and try to open it up. Good luck, good luck. So it's something to think about and I'd say this is like usually, for like these big tarpon tournaments or whatever is going on, an islander is the backup reel in case shit goes left, because it it's not going to fail. So okay.
Speaker 2:Next one is a jankiest rifle you ever saw someone hunt with. Uh, this was actually me. Uh, so I was the one. I was filming this fly fishing show in Tierra del Fuego, argentina, and they wanted they wanted some meat for us to eat everyday and there's. For folks that don't know, there's over a million head of feral cattle on Tierra del Fuego, cattle freaking everywhere. You'll see herds of like 100 bulls all together. No way, and you know it's just chaos. There's just cattle absolutely everywhere. So we were on this great big piece of private property on this very little river and they would want us to go out and shoot a calf for food every day. And this rifle was a single shot. That was a break action. The upper was a Remington. The lower part of the rifle was like this pop metal, russian like taped together thing. The scope didn't even have a label on it and was didn't have rings on top of the scope and it was taped on. Uh, so, yeah, that was by far the jankiest rifle I've ever seen.
Speaker 2:So you got you had to get real close you like you might as well be looking down the side of the barrel. Um, so yeah, that that was me. Wow, uh, do you notice the weight of the drawer system in your truck?
Speaker 1:no, I don't yeah, no, not at all. No, I mean, honestly, it weighs 250 pounds.
Speaker 2:Like you don't feel it, though. I mean like when you install it.
Speaker 1:I mean, because you got to put what you got to put one side in, you lift it up. I mean you, you know you kind of don't do me an idiot and do it all with your back, but I mean you kind of put it on your, put it on your thighs, give it a lift and get into the bed.
Speaker 2:It's not that bad but for driving around after it's in no absolutely not.
Speaker 1:No, it's not even nothing. I mean, your trigger weighs more dude it's. You don't even know no, uh.
Speaker 2:So yeah, a full, a full-size deck system for a full-size truck is 250 pounds. You don't't feel it For the Tacomas and stuff like that. They're significantly lighter. It's all recycled high-density polyethylene. It's American-made. It's tough, it's great. Yeah, I'm not noticing the weight, no, okay. Last one Bucket list spots you want to hunt or fish versus just to visit. That's kind of an interesting one. I kind of want to hunt or fish versus just to visit. That's kind of an interesting one. I kind of want to hunt and fish everywhere I go. I really do.
Speaker 1:Let's see.
Speaker 2:But if I can't hunt and fish there and I just want to visit, that's tricky.
Speaker 1:I've been a lot of places in soil. You've checked off some bucket list stuff. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:Maybe like someplace with like a really important historical significance. Uh, like italy, for example, like I don't have a huge burning desire to to hunt and fish in italy, but there's, there's a tremendous amount of history there that I would like to see those places, I think.
Speaker 1:Africa for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I want to get down there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I was fishing.
Speaker 2:There's some tremendous fish in there?
Speaker 1:Well, there are. So I was fishing in Norway like two years ago and one of my buddies that I met on Instagram love Instagram, dude and I'm going through with one of my friends that's from Paris, so I got to hang out with him in Paris for a couple days, meet his family, hang out with him, and then we flew to Norway and then I hit my buddy, nick, up. I'm like hey, bro, I'm coming through, do you think we can link up? We met up at a gas station, dude, and he ended up fishing with us for like three days. But anyway, he's from Cape Town and he's just telling me all this stuff about the fishing and blah, blah, blah, and it's just like his enthusiasm for the place and like some of the pictures that he's shown me, like it's just this outdoor mecca and I was like I got it and I wanted to do it. You know before.
Speaker 2:Anyway, but like just seeing his passion for he's from there, I was like man, this is unreal. So, yeah, africa is definitely a place I just I would want to go if I have no rods. Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah, I got to tiger fish a very little bit when I was in tanzania and I had to stand like 30 feet back from the river because of all the hippos and crocodiles, gosh and sometimes and I was throwing these big top water things yeah you know, sometimes it'd befish.
Speaker 2:There was catfish that would eat topwater crankbaits there and man, it was really cool. I would like to go back and tigerfish in a place that wasn't super crocky. Yeah, I could get down on the river and actually fish a little bit.
Speaker 1:Oh man.
Speaker 2:Instead of being afraid for my life the whole time. Sometimes crocs would come up and smash at that bait. That was wild, that was super wild.
Speaker 1:Those tiger fish are badass.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they look awesome. Okay, last question, and this one's for me what advice would you give to your younger self, knowing what you know now?
Speaker 1:Oh, what advice would I you know what I'm actually I'm proud of the path that I've been on and I've really been able to, like you know, learn from a lot of things that I didn't know. I think it would be to really try to try to tame my hunger and enjoy more while you're learning. That would be like my biggest thing. Because, dude, I'm like when I get laser focused, I'm just I, it's not I'm. I wouldn't say that I'm in the moment I'm a killer, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just in that mindset and it I wouldn't say a lot, of, a lot of times, like, when I'm in that mindset, I'm not, I'm not necessarily enjoying myself, I'm just like an attack mode.
Speaker 1:And I wish I, I wish I was able at times to get out of that, to really like soak my situation in, get out of that, to really like soak my situation in. I've been in a lot of places and maybe that's why like photography is so important for me, because I need that memory when I get out of that headspace. Yeah, that's what I wish I could. I wish I would have enjoyed the, the travels a lot, yeah, yeah, well, you still have time oh yeah, I'm getting better.
Speaker 1:I'm getting older, you know, I think that's great advice. I I also.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think that's great advice. I I also. I don't know if that that's definitely advice that I would have given myself as well. I don't know if I could have accepted that. I don't think I could. You couldn't have told me that yeah, I there's.
Speaker 1:There's no way like you couldn't I mean you, you know what I'm talking about yeah, you can't get out of that mode yeah that's why. That's why you've been able to do what you've been able to do, because nobody can kick you out of that game face never, never. But I would have but, but I would like to think that I would have been able to listen to lael yeah, you know yeah yeah, cool, cool, all right, uh, where can people follow you in your grand adventures?
Speaker 2:where can they? They see these, these photographs? You can you?
Speaker 1:can follow me at uhelPaulJohnson on Instagram and I have a fly fishing website. That's where you can book a trip with me if you want to go out. Flyguidecom, it's F-L-Y-G-Y-D-E and you know you can see me doing some more stuff with the deck boys and I'm going to learn how to dive so I can go out with James Bro that'll be fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude.
Speaker 1:That'll be fun. I'm going to do that.
Speaker 2:I yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, we've got something working. We've got something working in this category.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't want to spill the beans on it?
Speaker 1:No, not yet.
Speaker 2:But yeah, stay tuned. Already yeah, for sure All right brother, I appreciate you so much. Thank you sir, yeah, looking forward to hanging out for the rest of the show.
Speaker 2:Cheers, cheers. Bye everybody. I just want to take a second and thank everyone who's written a review, who has sent mail, who's sent emails, who's sent messages. Your support is incredible, and I also love running into you at trade shows and events and just out on the hillside when we're hunting. I think that that's fantastic. I hope you guys keep adventuring as hard and as often as you can. Art for the Six Ranch Podcast was created by John Chatelain and was digitized by Celia Harlander. Original music was written and performed by Justin Hay, and the Six Ranch Podcast is now produced by Six Ranch Media. Thank you all so much for your continued support of the show and I look forward to next week when we can bring you a brand new episode.