Are you helping too much? Co-dependant client check

Are you helping too much? Is the people pleaser force in you too strong? Sometimes, this can be detrimental to your clients in the long run. 

Asserting boundaries, learning when NOT to help, and really sticking to your project scope are all part of the put-on-your-big-girl pants part of business. 

Also here's the link to Braden Drake's contract course, it's USD$30.
https://notavglaw.com/club

You can find Ané and Stacey on Instagram at:
Ané - @ane.mgmnt
✦ https://www.instagram.com/mgmnt__/
https://msha.ke/anemgmnt

Stacey - @barefootbranding
✦ instagram.com/barefootbranding
🌐 barefootbranding.academy
https://barefootbranding.academy/eyes-above-waitlist/

Visit us here: 🌐 trustingtheuniverseandshit.com
Email us: 📩 hello@trustingtheuniverseandshit.com

Intro music by Tyler Dixon from @tones.on.toast - tonesontoast.com

Transcript

Stacey: 0:05

I want to client. To become empowered from working with me. And sometimes it's the hardest thing that you can do is to do nothing. And the doing is the easiest part, but then not doing that's when it's hard

Ané: 0:18

I think it's also really important to be brutally honest with yourself is that why you're doing it? Or are you actually trying to get their validation and approval for some reason?

Stacey: 0:47

Hello, and welcome back to episode 44 of trusting the universe and shit. And a, and I here to say hi and welcome.

Ané: 0:56

Hello it's so good to be back with another episode. I

Stacey: 1:01

be talking about co-dependent client relationships. And we were talking before we were saying we're not really in a spicy mood, but actually, maybe we are. I don't know. So we'll see, we'll see what this episode brings. Because, yeah, because I think I have been in quite a few co-dependent client. Provide a relationships. In the past. So, this is going to be very interesting to dive in without us having done any back work on this. So this is just going to be us. You know, this is just life. This is life. This is life you

Ané: 1:37

is love, as usual. No, but I do think this is a really it will be a really powerful conversation because especially if you are And I'm going to talk a little bit about that you're in a relationship for the first few years in business, or you're just starting out with your first couple of clients. Just like anything. your first relationships, like there's going to be times where you fall into these. I don't want to say traps, because it's, it's just patterns. It's just life things, and, and also a lot of the times when we attract these type of people, it's also just because we need to look at it. We, we need to look into the internal world that's happening within. So yeah, we're a bit of both. I would say a bit tired and I think, We thought we were in a spicy mood, but I think like, you know, when you've had a sleepover with friends and you're just like, it's like 4am and you're actually so delusional and tired and you just talk absolute crap. I feel like it's kind of going to be like this, but also there's going to be some important messages I would say for ourselves and for everyone else here. It's not just going to be crap. Let me just say.

Stacey: 2:45

Yeah, just, just a little backstory. Yeah. So I had, I've had an ear infection for like a week. So one of my ears is completely blocked. And so it is wreaking a little bit of havoc and it, I think that's also compounding the 4:00 AM sleepover feeling of just being a bit hysterical. But yeah. I w I do have a lot of examples of the car dependent client relationship to share too. So. Hopefully it's going to be helpful.

Ané: 3:13

Yes, and also I haven't been sleeping, which if any of you know me personally, you know, I am sleeping beauty. I absolutely love my sleep. So when I can't sleep, I don't really know who this NA is. So we will find out really. So.

Stacey: 3:28

Yeah. And sometimes when you're not sleeping, just as a side note, I feel like there are downloads that need to come. That are coming in, especially at night. And that's why I can't sleep sometimes because things just, they need to come in that time in those wee hours. And it's very annoying. But I know that that's why sometimes that's happening.

Ané: 3:48

Yeah. Yeah. No, we'll just, we'll play with it. It's fine. It's happening for a reason, so I'm just letting it be. Letting it be. But tell us about your codependent clients, your, yeah, your history you would say. Sorry, take your time. Mm

Stacey: 4:07

pretty toxic client to provide that relationships in the past. And. I think a lot of them come about because of. My need to people, please. And my need to really make people feel comfortable. And I've come a long way since then. But if I look back on some of the things that I was trying to do to keep a client happy, Even though they were very, very toxic and the relationship itself is very toxic. I just think, why did I do that? Why did I do that? I had a client once. Who I was trying so hard. To fix and complete her website for her. She was like a fitness person or something. I don't even remember. I ran it. I don't even remember anymore, but. One day I woke up and she just completely deleted her whole website. And I went to Logan and I was like, what? Why do you do that? And she was like, oh, I was just trying to take matters into my own hands. I was like, It was a completed website. Why would you delete it? And then I had a friend say to me, look. This is coming from a place of like tough love. Just let her go. And it hit me so hard. And at the time it seemed like such a hard thing to do. And now of course, She wants to go and do something like that. Fine. I'm not going to sweat about it. But at the time it felt so intense. It felt really intense to leave her and just leave her. Like I was trying to deliver this product and trying to stick to my word and it felt intense to just let it be.

Ané: 5:45

Mm

Stacey: 5:46

And sometimes it's the hardest thing that you can do is to do nothing.

Ané: 5:49

Mm. Oh, I feel that.

Stacey: 5:52

yeah, you're just sitting on your hands. And the doing is the easiest part, but then not doing that's when it's hard, because we're not used to that. We're not used to try to. Hold back and we want to please, and we want to make everybody happy and we want them to have a really good experience so they can tell their friends and. And we get caught in the cycle and we just, we cannot get out and we get stuck in it. And we just keep trying to please these people, and this can go on for years. I've had this gone for years with people, with clients, me trying to help them out and trying to help them get. What they need, but they're actually leaching off my energy to a point that's very detrimental to the business that I'm in.

Ané: 6:30

As you were speaking, it's so funny. It reminded me of like the different archetypes. Like I know there's a gazillion types, but it seemed like it was sort of like you were like in the savior archetype and they were the victim or whatever. And it's such a common, such a common play that's happening, like shadow play, I kind of want to say, even though, I mean, and this can happen in like relationships, friendships, like anything, it doesn't even have to be just client related but when you said the best thing, or the hardest thing to do is not do anything, I felt that so, so much because, again, you want to sort of save, you want to sort of please make that. it was no intention to have a bad experience for them and yet that's what they've experienced, like in their eyes and perception they thought they're experiencing that and all you want to do is fix it but that's not going, that's just going to add fuel to the fire and I, yeah, I can so relate, I can so relate. And so did that sort of just end when she, she closed off her website or, took matters on her own hands, was that the end of that for client?

Stacey: 7:33

So I went in. Like an idiot. And restored her website thinking. Okay, well, she's just, I don't know. She's just losing her marbles. She was completely unhinged, just FYI. So I go back in there and I re-install the website thinking, okay, well, you know, I know she's unhinged, but she's not going to want to throw all this work away. I re-install the website. And then she comes back and does it again.

Ané: 8:02

Mm.

Stacey: 8:03

then I think that's when I finally, and with the help of my friend, she was staying with me at the time. I think I finally was able to learn that lesson of, ah, okay. Desolated alone.

Ané: 8:15

Yeah.

Stacey: 8:16

it's not about you sometimes. It's not about the quality of what your work and you internalize that. And you say to yourself, This because I'm not good enough. And that worthiness of I'm not worthy enough. I'm not good enough. The need to prove yourself. That shadow play, as you say is coming in there because you're trying to prove something and because you don't believe it to be true. And if you can get to that place where you recognize that it's not about you, this was totally about her. This wasn't about my quality of work. Quality work was fine. And yeah, and then that's when I finally let in the lesson. And then that was when I think I was able to let it go when the, when the lesson was learned.

Ané: 8:58

I love that. You're so right. When you said it's not about me and it's, it's about essentially the other person in this situation, that is such a powerful, like, shift in mindset because you're right. Like, of course, especially if it's your first couple of clients, like, of course you want to bring results and you want it. a really good experience for them, but you're going to have these unhinged people sometimes that come and yeah, it's actually got nothing to do with you. And it might take a bit of time to realize that, but I too can relate. I had a really hard experience at the end of last year with a bit of a team management situation. And one of the team members just frankly did not like me. I don't know why I don't know. How come? Because I came off very polite. I have asked many, many times, is there anything I can do? Is it, is it, why is this coming up? And was met with a lot of resistance. So kind of like you said, I kind of just backed off. I was like, okay, cause you don't want to poke the bear all the time. You just, let's just not go there. So I made it clear. I was like, okay, no worries. And yeah, It ended up just sort of fizzling this, this retainer with this team because of this experience and it was so. It was really hard to come, come back to because again, as we are, we take a lot of responsibility and accountability for our doing, but it's really hard to do when you don't even know what the wrong doing was, even when you come up with many, many times of having trying to have communication. So yeah. Oh my gosh. Unhinged, codependent, and even, I mean, that's not really a codependent client. That's just, I would say heightened, dysregulated Clients? And the thing is it's not even actually the client. The client and I work very well. It's one of the team members. So that's even harder because you build this beautiful relationship and then you've got this someone else and that's actually the problem where it has been met with a lot of resistance. So that makes it really tricky as well because you're like, damn I really liked this, the one that I'm actually communicating to get things done. So yeah, it's tricky.

Stacey: 11:05

I've also been in co-dependent client relationships. That don't appear toxic on the outset. They sort of work. I do the work, they pay the money. The relationship's pretty good, but it's very car dependent in that. It becomes very detrimental to the client because. They cannot make decisions without me. I have gotten them to a point where they are not empowered business owners. And I don't want to do that for a client. I want to client. To become empowered from working with me. So I was. In a situation where, and I've done this with multiple clients too. Don't get me wrong. Where I've tried to over help them to the point that they just become helpless. So they come to me with every tiny question. And that's not good to be a business owner to not have answers when they go out in the world and they're trying to launch their business and they feel so unsure of themselves. So I'm doing them a disservice by hell, over helping them. And that if I can get any message across today, if you're listening to this, it's do not do that disservice to your clients and have them. Do everything for them because it's not helpful. Because they will have to start again from scratch. Once you finally get to the point where you tried everything and nothing's helping them. It's because they need to help themselves and they need to get to a point where they need to put that big girl pants on. You know, and they needed to go and make decisions for themselves. Like sometimes I'll get to a point where. Clients will text me. Oh, I want to post this thing on Instagram. What do you think? And I just go. If you're really at that

Ané: 12:46

a social media manager. Yeah.

Stacey: 12:48

No, it's not that it's like, if you don't, even, if you can't even trust yourself enough to just parse some little chord or something on Instagram. You have a heck of a lot of work ahead of you? I'm sorry. If you, if you, if you cannot even trust yourself enough with an opinion that you have, and these aren't even like really controversial, if someone said, okay, I have this really controversial opinion, what do you think. Maybe that's a bit different, but these are just standard things. And I think if you're at that point, you really need to reassess. How, how can I trust myself more? And how can I start to grow my confidence?

Ané: 13:27

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I love that. It's a man honestly put that on a t shirt or a mug and then have it with you at your desk 24 7 And then it would get all moldy and then you have to throw it out. No, okay, i'm done No, but I I could not agree more the disservice is such And it comes in such a small dose, right? Like if I'm just going to reply to this message on Saturday, even though my contract says Monday to Friday, or I'm just going to tell them that they should post this or, or, sometimes it's also like the comments and the engagement, because of course you want your clients to win, of course. But at the same time, there's a, there's a fine line of trying to get them to be engaged and stuff. And it's taking from your normal time off, like You've got to be really, really mindful of when you are overdoing it with the retainer that you end with your clients and that's where that service can start coming because they will latch on to that latch more, latch more, latch more and then it gets to a point where they are disempowered like they, they are, they don't feel like they're empowered, empowered CEO that they need. Right. were or wasn't but stepping into because they've started hiring people. So I, yeah, it's such a, it's a small, and I, and I want to say it's a small dose because it's not like all of a sudden they're going to wake up and you've got to wake up. You're like, Oh my gosh, I've been codependent. It's such a small time that adds more, more to it. So yeah, I, I just, it's, it's very common, I think as well. And I think one question that I've been asking myself a lot is, Is there something here that I'm resisting to, to bring up with a client? let's say it's I don't know, them not paying the invoices on time. Not that that really happens, but I'm just giving an example or, and you're just like in your mind, you're like, Oh, I'm just going to ignore it, ignore it. But then, it's day month, it's three months in, and it's still always a week late. Maybe there's a conversation that really like, it's not just that, Hey, kind reminder, invoice is late, but like actually a conversation, like, listen, We're busy. I'm busy. Everyone's busy. Let's can we prioritize this and really have a hard conversation because it's those hard conversations that we don't have that makes the world of difference and that's something I had to learn with a lot of previous clients where I, yeah, was codependent or weren't of service to them was just because I wasn't having a hard conversation, like a true, true hard conversation, not one that's like, Just bringing it up easily. You know what I mean?

Stacey: 16:01

Yeah. Yeah. I had that. I've had that experience with a client where every single month she would make up a lie to me about what was going on. It was always the bank. It was always, I have to call the bank who calls the bank, like seriously. About an

Ané: 16:17

20. Yeah. It's the 21st century. Hello

Stacey: 16:20

I was like, I didn't need, you're calling the bank anyway. Every single month it was a new excuse every single month. It was something else. And. It really did get to a point where that whole relationship just got cut off because I was over-delivering on all the calls and. When I don't get paid, I can't pay my vendors and it creates this whole situation. And I really had to start taking accountability for. My role in that. Of me allowing her to do this every month and not having the boundary and saying, okay, well we cannot move forward. this. And. It was just, that was one of the most toxic relationships I'd ever been in. And, meetings would go over time every single time, because she would just be telling me all this irrelevant stuff about her family. And I would just let her talk because. You know, she needed to process it. And so meanings going over time used to be a really big one that I would struggle with. Really really would struggle with that because I just, I was like, how do I cut someone off? Because they're telling me these really intense details. I can't just cut them off, but it just comes with practice. You just have to learn to say something like. Okay, well, we have 10 minutes left. What, is there anything really important you needed to discuss with me? But the 10 minutes we have left. Stuff like that. So you can get there. It just takes practice. And the other little bits and pieces, like you said, like, oh, the little CRE pups that happen. Oh, I'll just Texas on a Sunday night. That's okay. But it compounds and it compounds in, in. You start to train your client, how to treat you. You're training them to, to text you on Sunday. If you text them back, you're training them. If you email them outside of the hours that you said, and you go. Beyond the contract, because nobody ever reads the contracts that I send. They only respond to the actions in the way that, that their relationship pans out. And you have to be like a dog trainer almost. That sounds. Kind of, I dunno. It sounds really strange, but you know, And a dog trainer would have a clicker every time that the dog does a behavior that goes out of line, they do the little click and they, they pulled them back in line. It has to be like that, but it can, it can be very compassionate. Because you are respecting your time. You're respecting their time. And I feel like it is just so much better. If you can get to that point where everybody's respecting everybody's boundaries and time. That you have a much better working relationship that doesn't become so codependent.

Ané: 18:56

Yeah, fully. And it like, I think it's also really important to be brutally honest with yourself as well, because sometimes they do things or we do things and we feel good about it, right? Oh, I'm such a, such a compassionate person. Oh, I must be, I'm such a good, you know, service provider, but is that why you're doing it? Or are you actually trying, yeah, are you trying to get their validation and approval for some reason? Or are you actually Training them or showing that, Hey, I go above and beyond and we're going to get codependent soon. You know what I mean? Like you really have to be brutally honest of times where you may get off a little bit on the fact that you are such a good client. And I think that's something that. That is something that I have to remind myself and the easy I can get into that state, the quicker you'll see how you start attracting people that always pay on time, you start attracting people that values your time and energy and space, they will never, they will always ask, hey, if you have time available for this month of your retainer, can you do x, y, and z, they don't just do that. Offload on you, like you said, or go over time with your meetings, just hoping that they will get that, and again, that's just because they think that they can do it or get away with it. It's just you've got to have these conversations, open communication and open feedback loop is like a game changer because even in the big corp space, they do that all the time. They have these, I mean, they're not very efficient as we know, but they do have these meetings or quarterly reviews or whatever for these exact reasons. So I just find that sometimes we have to remind ourselves that even though our business is our baby and our clients sometimes become our friends and stuff, when you're in there with the retainer in there with them for service, It is only business, nothing is personal, and you have to act it that way.

Stacey: 20:49

Yup. Yup. Yeah, because the line can blur kind of with the personal and the business. And so I have a couple of little tips. So when you do something for free for somebody that's okay. All you need to do is you need to, so this is called gold plating. So you add a little line to your proposal or whatever it is that you're the way that you're working and you add a little line and you put down what you did. And so that, and then you put dollar sign zero. So they know. Oh, that wasn't included in the package. But I did deliver it for free. And that's like, that's your gold plating there. So that. They can tell the difference between what was included and what wasn't. And. Also my second tip is that I think sometimes people think, oh, it's too late with too deep in the relationship. I can't correct this now. And that's a limiting belief that will hold you in that Patton. So it's never too late to change that belief around. It's never too late to reassert the boundary. And rejig the relationship and say, actually, I think it might be better if we do things this way. And if we shift into this software or if we have meetings at this time and if actually. I need this and this to happen, or I need you to pay the invoice before we do the work. Things like that so that you can redo. Everything and don't feel like it's ever too late.

Ané: 22:11

Absolutely. Yeah, you're so right. There's definitely times where I have found myself like, Oh, I'm already six months in and even though this thing really bothers me, like it's, how do I bring this up? But you definitely can and being really just transparent. Hey, listen, I know we've been doing it for six months, but X, Y, and Z. And I feel like many times people, especially clients that are like very aligned with your values and your, the way that you are as a business owner, they will respect that they'd be like, yeah, you know what? I still want to work for the next six months with you. So of course, like I'm going to honor that. And you would want to be a safe enough service provider to do the same for the other client. You want them to be able to come to you about a problem, not have resentment with you. And then. that's where that all that toxic toxicity can start. So I love that you mentioned about that sort of activity that you can do and talk to them and have that provided for them. Because again, clarity and communication is going to be the key thing. Because we are human, like, of course, there's gonna be times where we, Well, there's times that we act the type of way or whatever. We're in your loo to a phase and you're feeling spicy or you haven't been sleeping or you have an ear infection, but then you come, but then you have that conversation and nine times out of 10, it's very much, solved.

Stacey: 23:30

Yeah. Yeah. And. It's just. That resentment that comes up. You can prevent the resentment from, from growing. Because you don't want to get to yourself into a position where you're really resentful of this client and you like this client did this and they did this, but actually it's, you. You're the one who allowed all these behaviors. You're the one who set up the client relationship. It is up to you. So don't victimize yourself to that point where you're blaming them for everything, because. Actually it was you. You're the one who needs to hold that boundary. You're the one who needs to put everything in place and hold yourself. Accountable to everything that you said and outlined in the scope of the project. And if you haven't even got to the point where you're not outlining a scope of a project, start there, start with outlining a scope of the project before you start the project with a client and say, these are the. The things. And if that changes, send an updated one and say, actually we're changing. This and that's going to be, I will do this for free for you, but just so you know, And then put that on there as well. So that, that resentment doesn't grow because oh, The resentment can just, it can eat you up. Paul wait, you'll be there.

Ané: 24:44

Yeah, it can. And I couldn't agree more. I feel like when there comes to like the agreements and contracts, yes, It's 9 times out of 10 that I read it, but there are going to be times where you have to pivot it like I know for some other clients that after three months of working with particular people, they up their prices by 5 or so, and they have that communication within because again, it's like, otherwise resentment will start building, they'll feel more burnt out and exhausted, and then it's just going to blow up anyway. So to prevent that happening communication is, and, just, making sure that everyone knows where they are is really, really helpful.

Stacey: 25:21

So when we were talking about the contracts and, nine times out of 10 people, don't read them. What's the point of having one. My contract has saved me on one occasion in a very big way, because she said, no, I need all these files, blah, blah, blah. I need this to assist. And I said, well, actually, no, If you go back and check your contract, you don't, you aren't entitled to it. She wanted like all the original files for something. And I said, no, actually you don't get all the original files because that's not the way that I work, blah, blah, blah. And she was like, oh, And this was years after to just someone coming out of the woodwork. so. Sometimes you think, oh, what's even the point of sending this. I'll just not send it, but just please just keep sending out those contracts because you never know.

Ané: 26:08

Yes, I love that you brought that up because I definitely did not at the first couple of clients. I mean, let's be real. Like I was still trying to figure out what a scope even is, how am I even going to deliver these things. So when you're in that trial period, a short agreement form will be just fine to just sort of state the period or the, the price point and whatever. Right. But eventually you're going to have to have a contract and All of these little nitty gritty things that go into it, all the things you think, Oh, they will never bring this up or have that. Or even things like, I know that I share like testimonials or conversations that they are so happy to have with teams and stuff. Like there'll be times where, they'd be like, Oh, like, is that a, I'll still ask them if that's okay, if like, I can share that, but I don't have to, because it is in the contract. And I think it's. More polite to have that kind of stuff in the contract and then share it, then just sharing it. And they'd be like, what the hell? Because if they're like I never agree to it, then like, you can again, bring it up with the contract situation. So absolutely. It saves you, but having it all those legal things. So definitely do it.

Stacey: 27:18

So that's just an example of how you can start to put in those boundaries. You know, in a really practical sense, your, so just to give everyone a quick if you don't know anything about what we're talking about, you're just starting out. You're going to have a. Sort of terms of service, and then you're going to have the project scope and these are going to be separate documents. So one's going to have really, really nitty gritty stuff. And then the other one is going to be on your project specifically. It's going to outline everything from like the timeline to the. Details on what it is. You're going to be complaining and full service providers. You can go and buy templates. If you don't really know where to start, you can search online and just see if there's someone in your area of expertise that maybe you can buy a template for these kinds of things. But this can is really where it begins. The boundaries for you not to have these codependent relationships begins at this stage. This is just the first step.

Ané: 28:14

Mm hmm. Okay. I have a bit of an embarrassing story to tell but I think this is important because I feel like If you're like, oh my gosh, it's too much work. There's so many PDFs. Firstly, yes If you're someone that needs some legal templates and things like that. I actually found a really really cool girl that does these and she's based in the US, but A lot of it, it's edited. So obviously the template, so it still was relatable for people in Australia. So wherever you are, I feel like this could be beneficial, but my very first client, obviously, well, not my very first, she was like my very first sort of real, like, like scope and have the whole retainer and all of that in it. I was like, okay, it's time to have a contract. And I, Found this random ass template one on Google and just copied and pasted, tried to like change it as much as possible at, you know, to my understanding. And I sent it through and she was like, an A. I studied law and I have no idea what this means. I was a bit mortified about it because I was just like, Oh God, that did not just happen, but it did. And you know what? She still signed it. We still went away. Cause I literally was like, No way is she going to work with me, like, how am I supposed to be a project business manager for her if I can't even send a bloody legal form? So, but she actually was, she was like, fair enough. She sent me the, the lady that does these templates one and said, these are, these are good cause it is for different types of service providers,

Stacey: 29:54

Yeah.

Ané: 29:55

And so that's just a bit of a story. I definitely,

Stacey: 29:59

there. We've all

Ané: 30:00

oh, fully, fully. So.

Stacey: 30:02

was like that for years. Something that I just made up based on somebody else's. Yeah.

Ané: 30:07

you gotta start somewhere like I'm it's laughable now and it is what it is and to be honest I kind of got over it really quickly because I was like, hey at least I friggin tried and I was able to provide a Better legal form eventually and thank God she did that because I could have been ten clients in had a huge something blow up And then trying to get that covered or whatever people be like, what did you what is this form? It doesn't make any sense. Anyway, so your butts not even covered, could have gone away worse. So I'm very very

Stacey: 30:34

the universe definitely sent you a gift and was like, Hey. Fix this right now.

Ané: 30:41

So just, yeah, just a bit of a story time for you guys that do your contracts because they do save ya and if it doesn't make sense get someone to maybe proofread it for you, maybe someone that you know that is in law.

Stacey: 30:54

Yes. I will put that link in the show notes. I also have one as well from Braden Drake that I use. Because it's only$30 and he goes through everything. He's. He's like his whole thing is like I'm you're you're gay bestie, lawyer. And So, yeah, I use like his, for my terms and conditions on your website. That's something people often neglect. I just think this is so boring. I don't want to have this on here, but you know, now, if we have to have stuff in there, In Europe. Different regions of the world. You need to be covered for that. And just to protect your protect your butt, basically.

Ané: 31:31

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Protect those codependent relationships. Use it all in the, use that all in the, in the contract and you'll be fine because you can just be like, hey, look at the terms and condish.

Stacey: 31:43

And if you're saying to yourself, this is, this is all too hard. Like I can't do it. This is the least of your worries. If you're thinking about having, going into the world of being a service provider, if you, if you're even stuck at that point of, oh, I really don't want to do that part. You have got to put your big girl pants on. I'm telling you. That's the least of your worries, you know? So

Ané: 32:09

Fully, yeah.

Stacey: 32:10

little warning for.

Ané: 32:12

Just a bit of tough love for you there, otherwise maybe don't think of becoming a business owner, just saying. Because yeah, you're right, you're right. There's a lot of templates and things. So very, that's the thing. We're very, very blessed with, again, the information and knowledge that we have now. So use it to your, use it for your benefit. But yeah, definitely, and, and look at those limiting thoughts because that's, that's really all it is. Maybe there's a, a fear there that you'll just don't want to have more responsibilities and stuff and look into that because it's probably going to be something that once you break that it's, you're going to have a breakthrough.

Stacey: 32:46

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, just to wrap up, I think if you are feeling yourself, falling into these codependent relationships. Just assessed yourself. Where is this coming from? Where is this coming from? Inside myself that I have this need to prove myself that I, probably coming from your parents. Right. That I have this need to, I feel like when you were talking before, I was like, hearing like this like good girl complex of like, you know, I'm good. I'm like being good. I'm trying to prove to my parents like that, you know, I can do it. And sometimes that leads us into adult hood. And when we get to adulthood, it's very not helpful. So ask yourself, where is that coming from? This need to please, this need to, to over-deliver this need to make sure that they're, that they're really happy. Of course you want your clients to be happy, but we also don't want it to be detrimental for them.

Ané: 33:41

Yeah, I love that. You're so right. There is a bit of a good, good complex there. And that, that, yeah, yeah, that makes so much sense. And sometimes our shadow is trying to protect us because it's like, Oh, look, look how good you are. Look how nice you are to everyone. But actually, again, it's a disservice. So look into that because sometimes when you're spicy or when you have some hard truth to say, it's going to be the best thing for you and your clients moving forward.

Stacey: 34:08

Ah, yes. So thank you so much for listening. It's been a pleasure. If you want to email us, you can. We're at hello@trustingtheuniverseandshit.com and that's also our web address. You can. Check us out there. And yeah, we'd love to hear from you. Please leave us a review on apple podcasts. If you have a minute, we would love to see what you have to say. And yeah, just thanks for me. Yeah.

Ané: 34:31

Thanks for being here, speak soon. Bye!