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welcome back to the garden state outdoors and podcast presented by boondocks hunting. I'm your host, mike nitro, and today we have john goodwin from wild game freaks. Welcome to the show thanks, mike, appreciate you having me now, you know, when we have new people on, we always have them give a quick rundown on of their backstory. You know, tell us a little bit about yourself okay, all right.
Speaker 3:Married, three kids. Live in western new york. I do a lot of my hunting in niagara county, so it's cropland, flat land in the lake plains. Live about three miles off lake ontario. Uh, did not grow up hunting. Um, it's, you know, something I got into after I married my wife and it was a way for me to connect with you, know her family and, uh, first time I went out, my father-in-law shot the biggest buck of his life. So, you know, I laid my hands on a 10 point and that was that was it. I mean, the rest is history.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what a what an introduction to you know, it's that that that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So I, uh, you know, short time later I shot my first year and you know I was hooked. It was the smallest deer you've ever seen in your life.
Speaker 2:but you got to start somewhere, right.
Speaker 2:I feel like it was more common back then you know, to shoot smaller deer, like now you see a lot of people their first year, like these little kids are, are just walking up on just absolute monsters and it's like jesus like. But you know, you got to start somewhere. Like you said, you know it's, I think it. I think it means just more when, when you start on that smaller guy, I like working my way up. I don't want to start at the top, I want to work my way up, yeah.
Speaker 3:No, I hear you, I hear you. So yeah, so that was probably. That was 23 years ago, something like that. So now I hunt more than anyone in the family I get more when you were when you were just getting into it.
Speaker 2:What was you know? Going into that first hunt, before you know, your father-in-law killed that big deer. Like what was your expectations? What was going through your mind as a as a as a newcomer?
Speaker 3:man, not I. I, honestly, I didn't know what to expect, right, so I had a this is kind of funny I had a shotgun that I had. So I had this. I had traded a car for it, right, I had this. Uh, I had this little ford escort that I bought for 200 bucks, rightrove it for a few months, traded it to a guy for a Mossberg 500, um 12 gauge. So I'm, you know, I got my, my, my gun that I had traded a car for. And then, uh, you know, I'm wearing, like a orange, a plastic vest from Walmart. It cost me 97 cents, right, cause I was just broke, flat broke.
Speaker 3:Um, I was doing an internship at a, uh, at a community center, and basically my pay was this apartment and, uh, I had no money. So, so I'm in a blue, you know, I'm in blue jeans, a blue flannel shirt and this, you know, plastic thing. And, you know, I saw a deer. Within the first 20 minutes I was in the woods, it was dark, but you know, it walked right by me. I'm sitting on the ground leaning against the tree. I had no idea what I'm doing and, you know, and then I heard my first shot. You, my heart got going. I think it was the deer that walked by me, it walked into the neighbor's property and they shot it in the dark.
Speaker 3:But uh, you know, man, I I had nothing to base it on, like I had no knowledge at all right of of hunting, because I, you know, my, my family, I grew up in town. My kids pick on me, they call me a city boy, but you know, we live in the country now, but I I had never, I never touched a deer. I only remember seeing one other dead deer my entire life before then, before that day, and that was at. You know, I was at my visiting my buddy Matt's house and his dad showed me a deer that he had shot and it completely kind of weirded me out, you know, as someone that had never encountered that. So so I really had like no frame of reference at all. I'm like I don't know what to expect.
Speaker 3:Um, you know, it's kind of kind of, you know, before, like all the videos and stuff were all over the internet and stuff, so it wasn't like I could spend time like learning, even online. You know, I would watch um hunting shows and stuff when I could, but that was, and even my father-in-law, who shoots this big deer again the biggest year of his life. He rarely got deer. I mean, the guy wasn't like an accomplished hunter, right, he, you know go out when he could and kind of do the same thing every time and sometimes he'd get deer, sometimes he didn't. You know, hunted with his old, you know remington 870 in iron sights and uh, that was it.
Speaker 3:You know, wasn't a, wasn't a bow hunter, wasn't a muzzleloader hunter, um, shotgun only, and uh, yeah, so I really didn't have any. I had no knowledge at all outside of the like hunter safety class that was required by the state, you know. So, yeah, so I was like man, I don't I? Because, because, you know, a few weeks later I shoot my first deer. Uh, my brother-in-law pushed a piece of property and the deer, honestly, would have run into me if I hadn't shot it. It was.
Speaker 3:I'm sitting on a stump, it's running through the woods and I put it on my chest, boom, it tips over. I go over to it. I'm like I don't know what to do. My wife's grandfather was there and he, he's like trying to tell me what to do and I'm like, you know, I got. He's like like, let me just do it. He's like you can watch, I'll never do it again, but then you'll know. So he's like, yeah, walked me through it, did it and you know I I don't even know how many I've done now myself, but so, yeah, I had no idea, didn't know how to field dress a deer, didn't know how to no, no clue whatsoever. So, just, you know, really just excited to be in the woods and, uh, you know I, I think now for new high, like getting into the outdoors and hunting especially.
Speaker 2:It's very overwhelming, you know. But I think even now, with social media, it's even worse. Um, you know it's, and and doing something as simple as like now we think of it as simple gutting, gutting a deer, your first time is is anything but simple. You having grown up with it, if you've never seen it it's you literally just look at it like well, what the hell, what do I do? Like, yeah, what do I do with this? Like I don't, where do you, where do you begin?
Speaker 2:And now it's, it's second nature, now it's like all right, like let's, let's just get to work. Like you know, you know what to do now, but that is to have your first ever hunt that you went on to and as somebody who, like you, said you know it, he wasn't like this oh my God Hunter, where we killed deer every single time. Like you know it's, it's, it's, it was tough hunting, you know, and with iron sights and everything like that. So to then shoot a buck of that caliber too, like it's just the hunting god, just like this man has got to be a hunter like we.
Speaker 3:We know he, he's gonna get hooked with with this hunt right here well, it's funny too, because it was a hot day that year opening day ended up being like 70 degrees Right. So this is, this is my first experience with field dressing a deer right. He gut shot the deer right, 70 degree day Right. So it didn't recover it for like a couple hours. So we, so we find it, we get over there. You know know he cuts into it and it was like, you know, air is releasing and it was like like he thought I was gonna vomit. So that was my first experience. My first experience with the field dressing was a 70 degree day with a gut shot deer.
Speaker 2:You know that had gotten a little bloated yeah, yeah, geez, to say the least, I couldn't. I couldn't imagine, you know, your first experience, like even like mine. Like now to me it's like I don't it happens like you hit the gut, whatever I, it doesn't bother me, but like if I would have done it on my first ever bow hunt by myself and you know done that, and it was early season for me as well too. It's like is that something that? Like what I've thrown up, what are you know, whatever? Like oh, I don't want to do this ever again. Like now that that we're used to, it's like, okay, like at the end of the day, you got to get the job done. You know you owe it to the animals, so like, let's, let's just do this. You know the smell doesn't bother me, but it's for first experience on a hot day like that it's, it's, it's gotta be brutal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was, it was uh. Thankfully that didn't deter me, so I was all right.
Speaker 3:But yeah, it was uh, and, and it's funny because you know, my son uh took, he got his first deer. Uh, three, three years ago, right Shot his first deer. Oh, three, three years ago, right shot his first first year. It was a small buck and and uh, you know, up until that point he was like, hey, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna field dress the deer, I'm gonna do it. You know, I've watched you do a ton of them and he had since he was little. He would hold, like, if I got one late in the day, he would hold a flashlight, you know, for me. And hey, what part is that? You know, whatever else, so it's kind of cool. Well, then we walk up to this, that animal, and he's like, uh, can, can you do it and show me how to do it? You know, yeah, it's, it's intimidating that first time. And uh, you know, now I I do it in like three minutes. You know, it's intimidating that first time.
Speaker 2:And uh, you know, now I do it in like three minutes. You know it's wham bam, you know. So I listen, I, I love, like I'm not gonna. I love gutting deer. I have this thing where, like I don't know, because you're you're getting better at your craft and you're you're never perfect when, when you started, you're like you're now down to to getting it done in three minutes and everything like that.
Speaker 2:So the more times I can you know, gut a deer, if you know somebody shoots one and they don't know how to do it. Like hey, yeah, like I'm more, more than welcome and I'll take a through the process, but it's still. You can be shown as much, but I feel like that's something that you just have. Just do it on your, on your own. You can watch as many videos you have. People show you, but something when it comes to processing deer, even when you're skinning the deer, like you can be shown all you want. But it's like that muscle memory where you, once you get in your brain, the more you do it, it just becomes so natural.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Well, that's and I think that's that's key right, that we get the kids involved in too. Like again, I have three teenagers and my son would always come out and help me cut stuff up the same one that got the deer. And one day I said, hey, I hand him a knife. I said you're going to skin the deer in the tree and he's like what it's like, dude, I got one on the table, I'm cutting up, you got to skin it. And he was in the tree and he's like what it's like, dude, I got one on the table, I'm cutting up, you guys get it. And he was like, uh, I said you've watched me do it a million times. Just do it. Like, because, again, that's the only way, right, you're gonna, you're gonna get good. And unfortunately, we ended up with a lot of hair in that deer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's to be expected to be expected, man, exactly, yeah, yeah, you gotta, you gotta trust the process and you know it's hunting is hunting. Is that one thing where it's like you have to just do like, as much research as you're gonna do, you're not gonna learn until you you get boots on the ground so you actually do do the situation? You know it's. You're not going to learn your, your, your thermals and you know all these things and even mapping, like, yeah, you can take a look at a spot, but it's not going to really connect until you actually go walk that spot and be like, okay, this is what I saw on the map. Now you're piecing two and two together and this is what it actually looks like on terrain. So now you can use it. You know further in your life when you are mapping new areas, right, right, so, um, the, the.
Speaker 2:The interesting thing is, you know so your first year. You know you. Your father-in-law gets one, you get one. Where'd you go from there? You know, you know you. You know you got some success when, what? What else happened that year?
Speaker 3:uh. After that it got worse. Uh, because so. So my wife and I got married in the fall of, or the summer of, 21, shot my first or not 21 jeepers, oh, one, that's a couple years prior to 21. I don't know why I said 21 but 01. So we've been. You know I'm old. So um hunted that year.
Speaker 3:The following year we moved uh out of the area so I had I basically lost access to the property I was hunting. My father-in-law has some property. I mean, I would still go back and hunt at every Thanksgiving I still do Um, but we moved several hours away, lived in an apartment on a college campus Cause I went back to school to finish up my degree, so I would occasionally hunt, um and again I. So I really wasn't overly proficient, I would say. And then, a few years later, we moved to a community, a small country town, where we lived for four years and I'm trying to think if I'd gotten any deer, like I went for two or three years without getting a deer, you know, and I was young and inexperienced and didn't know what I was doing and uh, you know, hunted a few, a few times, handful of times, um, and then, yeah, we moved and, uh, you know I was.
Speaker 3:I was the guy that you know, I would hunt Occasionally, and again, I don't like what you said because of that lack of time in the woods, but even I had a lack of people that could infuse information into my life. I just I didn't really know what I was doing, right. So so much of you know, the success I have now is trial and error and I tell everybody, um, there's no substitute, I mean, with anything right, there's no substitute for time and hard work. You know I have people all the time they're like why do you, how is it you get so many deer every year? And I usually get about five or six. You know I've gotten more. You know in my area, right, and they're like how do you do it? I'm like I hunt more than you do and I've hunted more than you in the past. So I've learned a lot of things that helped me be successful.
Speaker 3:So, um, yeah, so I had a number of years where I just wasn't, you know, proficient at all and then again I did shoot a couple, I'm trying to think, during that four years where, after we moved, I shot, I got my first buck with a bow, shot a little doe with a bow and again the bow was borrowed. So I was telling you about, you know, I mean, I, I was broke man. I had a borrowed bow. My brother-in-law was uh, he was, he was deployed by the military, so he let me take his stuff, basically, and I use like mismatched arrows and used broadheads and dude, it was bad and uh, perfect and uh so. But then we moved. We moved to our current place, uh, 16 years ago, and that's where I really started to get serious about bow hunting, um more so than anything else.
Speaker 3:But but basically I pretty much live in the woods now, so I'm surrounded by woods, which is nice, um. So you know, access is a game changer, you know. And so now, even even now, like at least once a week, I'll just go for a walk in the woods and I'll go look for sign and I'll look for animals, and even driving in my area, I always keep a camera in my car. You know, I stopped and videoed some deer last night. You know, it's just part. You know, the more you can watch them interact and deer do deer things, the better you learn, the more effective you become. So, yeah, so it's really been a long process, uh, like I said, of trial and error, because I didn't really have anybody to hunt with for years, you know, and, and I tend to be a little bit of a lone wolf when I'm in the woods anyways, like I, I don't necessarily want to hunt with a bunch of people. So, um, but I had to learn. I learned a lot. I made a lot of mistakes, I made bad shots, I, you know, um, but you know, I think I think because of that, I learned what not to do. And, um, you know, I was just the, the.
Speaker 3:I think my, my best attribute as a hunter is I was always able to out, hunt and spend more time than anybody else. Yeah, I'd have friends that they'd want to go out for three hours. I want to go out for seven. So if I can do it, I'm going to do it. I remember one morning I had two guys. They were going to come over the night before they called me up. They're like yeah, we're not coming. It's supposed to be three below zero tomorrow morning. I'm like well, dude, it's supposed to be three below zero tomorrow morning. I'm like well, dude. They're like what are you going to do? I'm like I'm going to hunt Like I couldn't feel my fingers. That probably wasn't the smartest thing I've ever done, but again, that's how you learn. You hunt in the rain, you hunt in the snow, you hunt in the cold, you know. So, yeah, just lots of again time. Time was the biggest teacher for me, so well, your mic's muted yeah, can't hear you.
Speaker 2:Oh my bad. I do that at least once, once an episode. Um, I think that puts what is going to put people aside. And I tell people all the time if you're getting into hunting, if you have the time and the availability, just go out there and learn, just hunt, because you know what and I could talk about our state. Not many people hunt, you know, when it's freezing cold out or when it's snowing or when it's raining, but those are the times you have to be out there If you're going to get an advantage, especially you. The times you have to be out there if you're gonna get an advantage, especially. You know you may not be the most experienced hunter, but maybe that extra I'm just gonna get it out there when no one is really gonna be out there. That's gonna give you the edge on on other people, because when everyone's sitting home and cozy, you're gonna be out grinding it out, because the deer are grinding it out. They have no choice, so they're still there. You know it's not like they. They go away, you know, and they actually might move a little better in in some of those conditions as well.
Speaker 2:Um, so I'm a I'm a huge guy and a component when it comes to hunting, on crazy, crazy temperature, and also mentally. I feel like it makes me a little tougher and it gives me a challenge. It's like like, all right, keep going, keep going. Like, yes, I know your finger, like you said, your fingertips are frozen and you just want, you want to quit, but your end goal is, you know, getting a chance, or harvesting a deer, or you know just the satisfaction of me seeing deer or seeing a bear or coyote or whatever animal. That's right, that's a win. In my book I stuck it out when the conditions are terrible and I was paid off by you know what I got to see and I got to take information from this hunt, like, okay, these animals are moving here and here and then, and it's going to help you in the long run, you know. So, any type you, any time you get out and I hate hunting in the heat, I'll I'll pick snow, rain, sleep, everything.
Speaker 2:As much as I hate, agree, hunting in the heat, I still go out and do it because you know a lot of people in the early says like, oh well, it's too hot to hunt, which I, yeah, you know what. You're right, but guess what? That's where you key in on those water holes. That's where you can can like pines, pines If you, if you get into some nice pines, the temperature change in the pines is it feels like night and day. You know when you, when you're out scouting, you know anyone who's listening to this, who's who's new to hunting or anything like this. If, when you're out in the field, go find some pines and just sit in there for a little bit and you just feel the difference of how much cooler it is, and you'll see that that's a key right there. Deer folk, animals focus on that and you you may get lucky moving, you know, on on those hotter days if that's where you're focusing on yeah, no, 100, 100, 100.
Speaker 3:I it's funny you say that I was. I went to georgia several years ago and, uh, I was. I was attending a conference, but I had a couple days on the front end that were free, so I hunted with the guy down there and it was. It so happened. It was their hottest. It was some of the hottest weather they'd ever experienced at that time of year and it was. You know, I think it was like the first week in november. It was their hottest. It was some of the hottest weather they'd ever experienced at that time of year and it was. You know, I think it was like the first week in november. It was 97 degrees, it was horrible, oh my god.
Speaker 3:97 it was brutal, is the hottest weather I've ever deer hunted in. I'm like man, I'm gonna have to make a darn good shot because this thing's gonna go bad instantly, you know. So yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:It was rough from a hundred oh go sorry, I think our opening day, uh, this past year was 91 and you just sweat the whole way in. It was amazing. You're like well, I'm glad no deer came in right away and gave some time for my scent to dissipate.
Speaker 2:Thank you, god I can actually tell you exactly what the temperature was in my notes. Just give me one second, all right. So opening day. First of all, it was 90 90 humidity. Um wow, I actually forgot to put down the the temperature, which is so not not like me, let's see, I guess I was so work, I was so worked up of how hot it was. Oh, my words were it's too hot, humid and it's about to storm, I'm getting out the woods.
Speaker 2:I I won't hunt. Everyone knows who listens. When it comes to lightning, I will not hunt. I am so like I, I just can't do it. I I've tried, I will, I'll walk back to the car and I'll actually try to wait it out in the car, but when it comes to that's the only hunting condition, I will not hunt it and I think believe it.
Speaker 2:This year, I think, um, a girl and her father, I feel like I think they got struck by lightning. I think I think we were talking about it earlier in the season and unfortunately, unfortunately the girl passed away and that, even right, there was like even more reason why I'll tough it out in the cold, I'll tough it out in winter, like rain, whatever, but the minute I hear that thunder or I see on the map that lightning is potentially in the area, it just turns. It's like all right, I don't want to do this like, I'd much rather skip this hunt and be able to hunt and I you're not going to, you most likely aren't going to get struck, but I don't want to take. We're already up in the tree as it is like why take that risk?
Speaker 3:the last last fall I was. I was in the deer or in the deer in the garage cutting up a deer, and I had a buddy over. He was out in the woods and it starts rumbling and I get a text. He's like dude, am I safe? I was like I don't know. And then like a huge one comes and like five minutes later he comes like jogging up my driveway. He's like yeah, I'm not doing that. Like no, now where the no there's more you.
Speaker 1:There's more metal to you or near you when you're hunting than any other than just walking around, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that's a consideration right there yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe wait it out, you know that's what.
Speaker 1:that's what I did on opening day this this year. I hunted in the morning. I had one doe come in and go back out. She was real small and I went and took a break, drove back to my spot, just waited it out in the car until probably about 445 and finally it passed and I dove right in and wound up taking my opening day doe that way, but yeah yeah, absolutely it works.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's yet again like I do like hunting those storms because you know pressure, like everything's changing, you can have, you know the the temperature is going to change, everything like that. That's how I killed one of one of my bucks right here is. You know, I, after the storm I got right out there and I mean just the, the difference was astronomical and I killed him not too long later. Um, so, if you can tough it out or you can do the safe thing, or whatever the case is, don't hesitate like go out there, like play, play those storm systems that just do it, do it safely.
Speaker 3:You know, don't put yourself in a terrible situation yeah, and that's the thing, right, if you, if you, you know again a newer hunter, when should you hunt? I mean, obviously, hunt all the time, but watch the weather, hunt before and after major changes, right, if you hunt before and after, you're just going to up your chances, it's, it makes a huge difference, it's huge difference. So so yeah, it's. And it's funny my wife kind of gets tired of me talking about them like oh, there's a front coming in, you gotta get out in the morning. She's like, really, he's like you see dear.
Speaker 2:All the time I'm like, no, I gotta get out there, yeah, it's. It's like, yeah, my fiance is the same way, like during the season. I am glued to the weather channel. I'm glued on weather apps. I know, even on youtube I felt I follow a couple of uh guys who they really break down what you know these fronts and they'll give you like a 10, 15 day window and they update it every time like something major is about to happen.
Speaker 2:I'll be at work and I'm sitting there and I'm watching these videos and I'm like, okay, I, I need to be out in the woods. Like, okay, this looks great. Like, did it add? Like, and I, I plan my work schedule literally around the weather for for a hundred, which, yeah, I'm extremely lucky that I get to do that. But for someone who can't, I would say try to focus in on those apps and maybe finding people who really break it down for you so you're not just wasting your time off. If time off is very valuable, or family time or whatever the case is, that might make you a proficient hunter and the lack of time you might make you, you know, a proficient hunter and might the lack of time you might actually start being able to. Okay, I can get it done here Now. I got more time for the wife and the kids or work or school or whatever. Whatever you're doing, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, and we live in an amazing time, right, where information is portable, right, so you'll find some quality people. You know, maybe it's people that are in your area that listen to you guys, like whatever. Like hey, when I'm driving to work, I can take in 15, 20 minutes of content, you know where somebody's helping me learn something new. And when I'm heading home, I can learn 15 to 20. Didn't cut into any family time, didn't cut into you know anything and uh, so you know, I think I think you know just learning to redeem the time that you got too, I think is uh important.
Speaker 3:But you know, absolutely, because there's a lot of great minds out there right now, there's also a lot of boneheads out there, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true, right, you gotta beat them out kind of yeah, I mean I got this, you know I got a decent size uh following on instagram and stuff, but it's like I mean instagram is kind of ruined, hunting for the young hunter, if I'm honest right. So I agree, like my son, he shot a buck two years ago go over. He's like the first thing he says to me. He's like, well, I know it's not, I know it's not a deer you'd shoot. And I was like, dude, shut up, like doesn't matter. Were you happy? Are you excited? Are you proud? Like man, like this is not. It was never meant to be a comparison game, agreed yeah, I think we're.
Speaker 2:I think just not only for for kids, for for hunting, but everything. Like you know, I I actually just heard that florida is proposing to ban um. You can't have social media until you're 14 years old, at least which I'm actually in full.
Speaker 2:I'm in, I'm in full support of that. I work with you know, for, for those of you don't know it, and John, you know I, I work with a child psych for children, so, from anywhere the ages of five to 17, and you know some of the groups I run I I do ask the kids I go well, what's your, what do you think I'm on social media Like are some of you guys, some of the kids are in there because you know bullying or they're looking up to people where it's like, oh, I have to have this or I got to look like this or I have to. That's not reality. What you see on social media also can be very fake as well, and you're only seeing the, the 1% of the good parts. And same with same with hunting, like I will say, like you know we, we try to broadcast how much, like we struggle, and you know the bad shots. And you know we, we try to talk about everything, the negative stuff too as well. But, like you know, when we when a lot of pages, you only see big bucks and it's like, well, I gotta, I gotta shoot, I gotta shoot that. Or you know right, I have to shoot, I have to wear sicka. Like listen, I wear sicka, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2:But I started out wearing walmart stuff, you know, going to whatever, like regular camo, like that mitch match, like crazy. Like you know, I'd be freezing sometimes and I'm like I have so many layers on that I can't even move because, like I didn't have the money and I wasn't invested, like I am now. You know right, it doesn't really matter what you have, it doesn't matter what you shoot. Like I I passed on a buck this year a little, a little like four or six pointer and he walked up and I actually saw him get killed and I was super like, I was like damn. But then I was also like when I, when I talked to a guy I was like he was like yeah, it's not like no, like listen, if that got your heart pumping, what you did, like that's all that matters there, like congratulations to you. Like you know, I, I I was talking him up because, like you, you shouldn't feel any type of way.
Speaker 3:It doesn't, it doesn't matter, as long as you're happy with it. Important part, right, right. And truth is I don't, I don't know the story of all the other hunters, right like, there are guys that have three days a year I hunt I don't even know how many days a year right there with you, I can, you know, and it's. It's not uncommon for me to get home and be like, hey, I'm gonna run in the woods now it's only an hour, but that's a hunt, right, you know. But I can do that, I can get to a stand, I can get to a field edge, I can, you know, in a very short amount of time. So, but for me to sit back and go, oh, you shouldn't have done it. Well, reality is 10 years ago I would have shot that buck. You know I've, I have changed, and it's not because I'm better than anybody else, it's just, you know, as I've, as I've grown, my standards have changed a little bit, and that that doesn't, you know, the last. You know I've shot some nice bucks the last few years and you know I'm happy that that's the case and they're hanging in my living room right now. You know, but it's like you know, at the end of the day, there are guys out there that are hunting on a budget that just want some venison in the freezer. Out there, that are hunting on a budget, that just want some venison in the freezer, and you know who am I to tell them. You know that they, they can't shoot something that I passed on.
Speaker 3:You know, my son, my son's first buck was probably a year and a half old. Um, he's, I don't know if he's a five or seven, he, you know, a little basket rack on his head. We're driving home and I said to my wife I was like you know what, let's get this deer mounted, like that's his first buck, like we can afford it. And, um, it helps. I'm friends with a taxidermist. They gave me a deal, so that helps. But but you know, we, he did he's. So we have a. We have a year and a half old little buck hanging up, you know, in our house and it's to me that was one of the coolest hunts I've ever been on, because I was sitting there around the video camera next to my son when he killed his first buck. You know, and you know that that memory is, you know, totally worth it. And, and several years ago.
Speaker 3:Uh story I I've shared with many people my, my son, uh, and I think this is what hooked him. He was uh man, I don't even know how old he was at the time, but we went back and we were in some really thick pine trees. Out in front of us was this little field, it was small, and then there's trees about 80 yards across from us and and uh, I hit the grunt tube and I said to my son I said, hey, you know, a buck will always come in downwind because they want to know. They want to know, uh, they want to be able to smell. Whatever made that noise Right? So I said here, open my, open the weather app on my phone, tell me which way the wind's coming and tell me where the buck's going to show up. If a buck shows up and, uh, it was great because I look like a genius as a dad, you hope for those moments, you know, because I do a lot of bonehead stuff. So that was those.
Speaker 3:But I kid you not within five minutes a buck shows up directly from where my son appointed. It walked up within six feet of us. We're on the ground, right, got little little buck and I tell him when it's coming over. I was like matthew, I'm not shooting that deer, and he's like begging me. He's like, please, you've never shot a deer when I've been with you. Can you? You know you always let them walk. Can you please shoot this deer, you know? So it gets right in our face. I'll to. I'll send you the video later, mike. It gets right in our face, basically, looks at us and it blows like you know, like like six feet away, you know, and it runs out. It doesn't know what we are. It stops broadside and I was like you know what today, the greater trophy is a memory right, and I double lunged it I love that but it was like it was again the most amazing memory with my kid and he.
Speaker 3:He was like this is the greatest day ever of my life, you know, and it was. You know what? Not all trophies have big racks, you know, and it was a. It was an amazing memory and and I think some guys probably need to do that with their kids they need to lower their standard for a day. So if their child can experience that rush and that excitement, and that's okay, right, that's all right. Like you know you might get, maybe you get a big deer next year, but today you know we can, we can infuse some excitement and love of the hunt with kids and younger hunters. I mean, by all means, I'm not going to judge it.
Speaker 1:Well, those two things that you did as well, between taking that shot in front of your son to get him ramped up and spending the money to have his first year, you know mounted, you're instilling and you're you're cementing the, the importance, uh, and the, the respect for wildlife, and that his deer was just as important as any other deer out there. And, right, that's going to pay dividends more than anything else. You know, taking that opportunity, those moments, because that's what, that's why we do what we do, yeah, you know right, and that's what's amazing about it.
Speaker 2:So good on you for that, yeah I'm, uh, I'm trying to teach my fiance and I can't wait for her to get her first year. Uh, she doesn't obviously get nearly enough time to to get out there, um, because of her works and she's not die hard. Like you know, like I am, like I'm a full-blown nut when it comes to it. But you know, we're slowly and surely working on it and I told her I go, I don't care what walks in front of us, as long as you know one of the zones that she does hunt. Unfortunately it's an antler restriction zone.
Speaker 2:I think I'm going to be moving her to a spot where I'm going to find her, a spot where there is no restriction zone, just you know, I don't, I don't, I don't want a a spike to walk out and her not to be able to have the opportunity to shoot that deer. But I told her, you know, every year, I don't care what is in front of us, you're going to send it. You know, as long as you're comfortable and you want, like, send it, right, it doesn't have to be I'm. We're not looking for a big deer, we're looking for your first deer, I don't care what, right, your first year, your first couple of years. I'm so a hard believer of shoot whatever, have fun with it, learn right. When time goes on, like you said, you know, things change. Now you're after a certain caliber Listen respect to the people that hunt.
Speaker 2:Certain caliber deer. Have respect to the people that meat. Certain caliber deer. Have respect to the people that meat hunt, have respect for everything out there. You know we're against everything as much as listen.
Speaker 2:I don't like crossbows, I really don't. But if that's how you have to hunt and that's the only way you can hunt, or you're yet again, you're going out there for meat and you only have one day, hell yeah, like go do it. I had to use a crossbow once because my shoulder and I still have that crossbow sitting right there, gosh forbid, just in case. I'd much rather be out there and hunting. Then oh no, oh, I'm not gonna go out because it's a crossbow, it's a gun or yeah. Yeah, I only want to shoot a bit. You know a big deer or something like that, like no, it doesn't really matter, I ate tag soup.
Speaker 2:This year, you know what my pride and I was after? Because I was after a certain caliber deer and for me I just I just passed some deer, but you know, right, that's me and that was my choice and do a couple guys like, oh well, why would you do that? Well, you know what I have shot. You know some smaller deer before and I I do want to shoot mature deer and at the end of the day, the bigger the deer, also, the more meat I get to put in, put into my freezer as well. You know so that that's why I I do it. You know it's, it's a great story, it's, it's an accomplishment. I like the um the cat and mouse game. I like playing chess, uh, with deer, and you know who's making the first mistake. You know is is going to, is going to lose, and you know, this year it was, it was me, I, you know. But now next year it's going to be back on and it starts right now. You know it starts me going out there and put a camera.
Speaker 2:So that's the fun part for for me as well yeah, 100 but when I man, when I have kids, I'm the same thing, go shoot what you want. Hey, you know, especially there you want me to show, okay, you know, I and I'm probably gonna be the same thing, like, oh, like I really don't want to shoot that deer, but it's like you got to think it's not about us, you know right, it's, it's, it's the person that that's the next next to us and making those memories and everything that's going to last last a long time with them and they're, they're always. And then, you know, hopefully, when, when they have kids and everything like that, they will look back like, hey, you know, my dad did this with me and he shot, you know, a smaller deer, and to make me happy and to give me these memories, let me do that for for my kids.
Speaker 3:Right, right, and I think it's just again so so important, right, right, and I, and I think it's just again so so important because then our kids learn that right for the next generation and the next generation of the next generation. Like, if you, if you and I'm sure you guys follow like some hunting pages on, like facebook or whatever, right, and inevitably october, november, people are like look here's a deer I shot and half the people on the page attack them.
Speaker 3:Right, yep, dude, what the heck are we doing? Like, yeah, and you know that might be that guy's first year, you know that might be the only day of the year he can go out. And you know, we just don't, we don't know, so I just and it turns people away. It's, it's, it's, you know, we just don't, we don't know, so I just and it turns people away.
Speaker 2:It's, it's, it's you know it's. It makes people not want to do it like you. We're already getting tacked in so much, but why get tacked by our fellow? You know our hunters out there and our outdoorsmen. I I always tell people and I will say it yet again on this podcast because I really believe in I'm going to do it like, if there's anyone out there, that if I don't care what deer it is, if you send me the deer we're going to to repost, if that's that's what you want us to do, or if you, if someone is saying saying things listen, we have, we will back you up 100 in the comments or whatever the case is, because you know what we all got to stick together like I.
Speaker 2:I don't just be out in the outdoors, that's that's what I want people to be. I want people to experience the life that I have, that my family's had, and you know what we get to have. Like. I want that for everybody. Doesn't matter what race, doesn't matter what color, doesn't matter what sex you are. It this is for everyone. You know, it's something that you know us at boondocks hunting, we we preach often and we always tell people like I hang out with people who you know they come from all different backgrounds and you know like to hunt and or just like to be out fishing and just being out in nature, because you know what there's. There's nothing really better in my, in my opinion, than doing what we do right in the future of our, the future of our freedom.
Speaker 1:You know, to be able to do this in the sport depends on it yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And if we're going to complain about losing our freedoms and then scream at everyone else that exercises theirs, like what the heck?
Speaker 2:we need to be a little more unified and that's the thing between now, social media with everything in life, like you could talk a lot of junk behind you know your phone or your it's like you're why, like, do you really feel, do you feel that bad about yourself that maybe all that person shot this deer? Maybe I haven haven't seen, you know, seen a deer or gotten the chance? Like, do you what? What is the point? I, like I, I personally, don't get it. I've never understood, like why people bully online and stuff like that. Have I, you know, am I? How do I say this? Like I don't?
Speaker 2:I've never, I don't want to say never, because then somebody look up something that like with, without joking, like with my friends, like, okay, like, hey, listen, these are my friends. I've never, I've never gone to someone random and just like starting attacking them. I'm like online or anything like that, to make them feel anything less less than themselves. For you know, and I see it every day with with work and I do, really it hits a soft spot because, like, a lot of these kids are bullied, you know, for how they look, how they dress, yeah, what they have and everything like that. And it's like these are the kids, unfortunately, that are now. We're in the realm of, you know, si is just very, very high and we, we don't, we don't want that, regardless for whatever we do, right.
Speaker 1:Right, right right now, if my, if my cousin sends me a photo of a basically a fawn and a cooler as his first deer of the year, he's gonna. He's gonna catch some junk. There's no doubt about it. You know what I mean and that's okay.
Speaker 2:But my friends and family, that that's the like. Listen, I, we like me and a bunch of my friends who, who hunt together like we give it to each other all the time, but that's because. But if, if it does hit a nerve, like it's like all right, cool, like all right, we hit a nerve, like now we're going to back off Like, listen, we, we didn't really meet it.
Speaker 2:You know we're just. You know this is what we. You know what we do. But you know when it and it's random people online who want to seem really proud and stuff like that I see a lot with with women too. Like a lot of people online attack women for hunting and stuff like that, and it's like if our sport is going to grow, we really need women. Like it is. There are some women hunters out there that are absolutely amazing, that do such a great job. Why attack them? Because, because they're a girl. What easy target. Yeah, they, they just hunt better than you and you're jealous, like you know they have the opportunity. You know it's, you know it's. It blows my mind.
Speaker 2:But you know, um, john, something I wanted to ask you about the. So when you first got into bow hunting right, you know, you borrowed all that stuff. What, like now you look at from bow hunting then to now and where have you come in and stuff like that. Like, what is the development that you've seen? And also, where? When did you start? Like, when you got hooked on bow hunting, what was the first bow that you actually bought yourself and you got, uh, you know, situated to yourself uh, so I don't even know what the bow was.
Speaker 3:I was borrowing. Like I said, the arrows are all different lengths and I had used broadheads on them and they're using aluminum back then right, what's big yep?
Speaker 3:yep, aluminum and uh. And then I bought a Martin Jaguar Pro Series in 2000 and probably like six, seven somewhere in there, and that bow was way quieter, way smoother, know, more accurate, you know, I think at that point I went out and bought, actually bought, arrows that at least matched, you know. But again, I didn't know what I was doing. I think I, I think I went out and bought arrows and, like I don't think I had them cut down, I just shot full length arrows. Uh, it's so funny. Um, but yeah, it was. I'm trying to think, you know, I had, um, man, I, I got my first. I'm trying to think when I got my first, even range finder, at this huge, clunky, big bushnell thing. You know, that was just ginormous. Um, I remember those and, uh, I still have it in my basement. It's uh, yeah, I'll pull it out this year, it'll be great you should do.
Speaker 2:You should do like an old school hunt, like if you have all your, you know your. Yeah, you should bring that out.
Speaker 3:What a walmart if they have those plastic vests exactly. Um, yeah, yeah. So I mean, I didn't have any, like I had no camo, I had no, no concept of, like you know, scent control at all.
Speaker 2:Um, I had no man, I'm trying to think how long were you rocking the blue jeans for?
Speaker 3:Oh man, I don't know, I remember buying my first camo and my daughter was in a stroller, so so she would. So I started hunting 23 years ago. She is almost 20 now, so so I had like a good solid three years, three years of hunting in blue jeans, and you know.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 3:I love the worst color the worst color and I had like a plaid, like, um, not like grandpa's plaid, not the red plaid, you know, but I it was like blue like what's sitting behind you all blued out, but basically I had the worst, the worst outfit in the woods, um, and I killed deer.
Speaker 3:Not many, but I killed deer. So but I do remember I went to dick's sporting goods in um and I bought like a one piece like you zipper goes all the way down uh like, uh like coveralls and uh, yeah, it was like the greatest day of my life. You know, I'm like now. Now I'm a killer man. You know, it was the cheapest ones there and they were on sale, so and it was still probably too much for our budget at the time, you know.
Speaker 2:But back then, but I think I think when, when we were budget hunting and just getting into I think those are some of the best times, like I I will never forget. It's like you're going to walmart, you're going to dicks, like you know, you're trying to put things together, and it's like you were so innocent when it came to hunting, like you weren't over and we talked about this, I think a couple of episodes ago that we recorded, but like you weren't overthinking things and we weren't overthinking our camo and we're just going out and having fun. I'm not saying that we're not having fun now, because I do love it, but it's also. It's a different type of fun, but it's like it was like you're, you're a toddler all over again and you're learning everything just just from scratch and that's that's kind of what you know. We. We did like, yeah, I had some family and stuff, but I was the first one in my family to bow hunt, so I taught that all myself and it was.
Speaker 2:I remember I started out uh 2013. I went to dicks, I got my psc and then I got aluminum arrows too, because I didn't really like. I was just like I'll just get these and didn't cut them, didn't anything. And I remember the first shot went right over my target, hit some brick and it just exploded like everywhere. But it was. It was so much fun and like looking back at it now. It's like I cost myself so many deer, just so many bonehead mistakes out, that now I'd be like looking back, like what the hell was I doing? Like I I was just walking around like aimlessly and just you know. But it was fun, it's exciting. Every hunt was exciting, because you didn't know what the hell you're doing and whether it was a squirrel or whatever. You're like, oh my god, is that a deer? Like is that a deer? And like you're, it was just fun.
Speaker 3:But you know now, now we're, we're way more calculated and it's it's a different, it's a different type of fun and I think I, I I'm concerned, though, too, and that, um, yeah, you know, you get older, your budget does grow, right, you know, hopefully, right, hopefully, you make more. Now you did in 2013, um, you know, and uh, but man, I like we're almost that's. It seems like a lot of people are almost pushing to make. They're making in a rich man's sport. Um, you know, but I mean, you know, I've been bow shopping and I'm like holy crap, like maybe should I buy a bow or a used motorcycle, like it's's the same price, you know, and it's nuts.
Speaker 3:But you know, and again, thinking back, like early on, I had a I'd go to Walmart and I'd buy a package of ale and broadheads, right, and this, I don't really want to talk bad about anybody's products, but I mean they, they will kill a deer, but yeah, but they're dangerous. So, uh, you know, but I, you know I, blades would typically break off when they went through ribs and and I found it my first buck I actually sliced my hand open because broad had basically exploded in the deer. So I found all the blades, but you know, it was messy. I'm like wait, that's not the deer blood, that's my knuckle. So, you know, but yeah, I mean it was and that was. There was really no other option. You know, I basically was. I was not looking for the best quality, I was looking for the cheapest thing I could use. That I knew I could kill something with.
Speaker 3:You know, and you can kind of do that still, like there's ways to do it. You know, go to go to walmart a month after deer season and buy everything that's on sale. Like you can do that. Like, yeah, I have a whole bunch of stuff in my basement. I like load, I give my kids stuff. All the time I I'm like, hey, here you go, oh, you need something, here you go. You get into Muslim loading. Hey, here's some stuff you know, because I buy it half off. But you know, so you can do it.
Speaker 3:But man, the cost of stuff, like right now, when you get like everything you're a hero and you might be out 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, depending on what you have on it right now. You don't have to spend that much, but you put a lighted knock on there and a nice broad head uh yeah, yeah, these arrows are not.
Speaker 1:It's expensive and it is and it goes up fast, but it's. It's funny because you can play both sides of it, where you sit there and say, well, can I kill a deer with a 20 arrow and broadhead combo?
Speaker 1:yeah absolutely you know, I can also kill a deer with a 45 or 50 dollar. You know, combo and, and it's how deep do you want to get into it, right? So, but I agree with you, like there's, it's ridiculous. It's how deep do you want to get into it, right? So, but I agree with you Like there's, it's ridiculous, it's ridiculous. I never thought growing up that I would be considering buying a three pack of single bevel broadheads for over a hundred dollars. Yeah, yeah, and be happy to, because I've, you know, convinced myself that's what I need.
Speaker 3:I've got a pack down in my basement ready to shoot and I'm like I really need to get another pack because I'm gonna have to practice with these right and maybe I can practice with one right, that's what I say too, I'm like I'll just practice with one and then you know it's like it's, it's the same thing like and I'll resharpen it the night before I go hunt.
Speaker 3:Exactly. The flip side is, though, quality with knowledge makes you more proficient. Oh yeah, proficient, efficient. I'll complain about it, but I'm like I'm going to Illinois in November, right, you better believe I'm bringing quality equipment with me. Yes, I don't know if I'm going back and I have a hundred, and I don't even know the number because, quite frankly, I'll shoot a deer they consider small, that I consider big. Right, yeah, it's bigger than the deer I have hanging in my in my living room. Uh, dude, I'll drop it like I don't. It doesn't have to be 180 inches, I mean, I don't, that's you know, whatever. So, but, but I want to make sure that you know I have a bow, that's you know, I have a bow that's quiet. Um, I have, you know, everything's smooth.
Speaker 3:I want, I don't want, to have failure with you know, I, I've experienced failure on mechanicals twice in the last like three years. I'm done, you know, and uh, so I'm like I'm probably going to get the best I can afford, which is not ale and broadheads anymore. So, but, you know, because I'm like I can't, if I'm going to spend that money, I'm going to buy that tag. I got to travel 12 hours to get there. Like dude. I just gave up a week to be of being with my family. I want to. I might not come back with an animal, but I don't want to say I didn't come back because I had failure. Um, you know, a broadhead didn't expand or you know, my bow made a squeaky noise when the deer was standing there 20 yards and it ran away you know, I can't leave anything on the table at that point, and that's exactly if you, if you get especially these bigger, mature deer, you may only get one shot, one opportunity oh
Speaker 2:and you got to make sure nothing fails.
Speaker 2:Especially, you know, the more you go to like people who go out to colorado or alaska and everything like that you're already spending all that money like you don't want to bring equipment that's going to fail on you and I always have believed in that.
Speaker 2:You know my, my grandparents and my grandpa and everything in my family have always talked to you like, yeah, you know, in the beginning you don't want to go do anything crazy, but the more you get experience, in the end, if this is something that you're doing, you just honestly you're better off spending the money on it, on some good quality, because you know what. You buy something that's cheap and it breaks, then you have to buy it all over again and you're going to end up spending the money anyway, and you you know so. So why don't you just spend it the one time? Get something that's going to work instead of getting something that's going to continue to break and you're just spending the money over and over and over again too, as well yeah, well, that's kind of been my thought with broad too is I've again experienced that these uh mechanicals that failed on me.
Speaker 3:But is that they're also one shot, broadheads? You know, it's like you're you, you're talking, I mean, what's a good mechanical? Now it's about 15 bucks, right, at least somewhere in there.
Speaker 2:Right, so I'm paying. I think 30, 30 or one sever.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think I think roughly like 30 for for just one sever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you can, you can, and then you're those little blades, or they're bending, they're ding in there, whatever. And I was like I'm probably spending that much on broadheads anyway, because I shoot a deer and then I don't ever use that broadhead again.
Speaker 3:So I'm like I have some quality made, single bevel fixed blades that I can resharpen, that are made out of one piece of you know block of metal. Right, if I don't lose it, it I'm gonna lose one at some point, but if I don't lose it it's gonna last me forever. So maybe not forever, but because I'm also gonna upgrade at some point, because I can't help myself, but. But you know, but, but at the end of the day, I buy broadheads every year, so yeah, we'll buy them here. Quality that I can reuse.
Speaker 1:Um, so, you know, yeah, it's, yeah, I, I killed, I killed all three deer with the same broadhead this year did you really what, what, what, brother uh, I saw you use tough head.
Speaker 1:Tough head, uh, 150 grain single bevels. All right, right, single bevel. I resharpened it three different times and when they put them out they are razor sharp to begin with, but then I get, I get a little stupid with it. I go all the way up to 2,500 grit when I do mine and they shine. I mean like I've I've had the guys and sent them photos and they're like what's wrong with you, you know what? But yeah, I've resharpened the same broadhead three different times for all three deer this year. I mean, to your point, it can be done and it's worth it and you can't take away from the guys that want to shoot mechanicals and there are some good ones out there. I think Sever's great. I have those in my paper too. But I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 2:The investment's worth it, you know reason why I'm moving to you know what? Which a fix as well. So I'm going to be shooting iron well as well. So I'm going to shoot iron well and sever this year because I do you know, at the end of the day, there are moving pieces. I don't care how good sever is and I do think it is the top um, it is mechanical broadhead right, hardhead right. But there's still always that possibility that if something fails, like you know it's, it's not a hundred percent. I, I do want that option and I also want to be able to give people that option, like when someone asks me oh well, you know, you, you only talk about mechanical. Well, that's because that's why I shoot now. I want to be able to, to be able to give somebody hey, you know what this is what I do for for fix, and this is why I I also shoot a fix so I can give both sides and not just being so one-sided at the same point and I've noticed even not just the shooting.
Speaker 3:So like, um, I don't want to pick on any, I don't want to talk trash about any company, but but there are some that use like a plastic collar to hold the blade in place. Right, so you, if you hunt and thick stuff, you might get to your tree and realize that you're, you, you re, you know the collar just broke or you know shift, something shifted and it's like. So now the claim that it shoots like a bra, uh, like a field tip, that's what it doesn't anymore.
Speaker 2:And I've had, I've had that issue with the. You know, everyone knows that company and that that I've had issues with. And and that's what, and I always tell people like that company and I, you know, I, yes, they, they are very good and they're gonna.
Speaker 3:You know they killed a lot of deer of the products. I've killed a lot of deer of the products yeah, but why take that?
Speaker 2:and and that's another reason why I I do like that iron will is because you know, now I'm hunting a lot more thick, hunting a lot more beds too, like I, I just want to make sure I don't have to keep, because what I do is when I get in and when I get all set up, I always make sure everything is correct. So I actually I look at the, the broadhead, everything like that. I want to make sure that nothing came, came apart. Everything is still nice, nice and tight with. You know, whatever fixer you don't, you don't have to worry about that, you know, you know it's there, there's nothing loose, there's nothing that came off it. You could just put it on, boom and and you're, you're good to go, and you know. You, you that worry, and I think when you have to second start, second guessing yourself as a hunter or your products or anything like that, that's where a lot of bad shots are going to come from as well yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:The hunting public guys earlier this year they they did a really good video. They had like four different types of brush thickness and, you know, a single bevel. Not I mean well, fixed, not just single bevel but probably single bevel. But fixed in general is going to be a little more forgiving if you hit something. And they did a great video showing the penetration through different types of brush. You're not going to get that with mechanical.
Speaker 3:No, you gotta have a clear shot yeah, and I, and I hunt a lot of thick stuff myself, so I'm like, yeah, I just need to again one, one less thing to worry about. Um, you know. And so now I gotta ask you steve, so you shoot? You said you shoot.
Speaker 1:Yes, have you always shot that heavy, or yeah, so I mean, I, I got back into this game about three years ago. I grew up hunting when my dad took a long hiatus, but I came back in and started with a crossbow, and then my cousins gave me crap enough to get into a compound the very next year. So, and I and I was researching stuff and I'm dumb, you know I dove in with with all four appendages at once and I went down the the ranch ferry trail pretty quick and and so, yeah, I've always shot, uh, a 550 grain arrow total, uh taw. So, um, and yeah, I've always shot, I've always shot, uh, single bevels. Um, this year, like I said, I did put some severs in my quiver. I didn't get a chance to use them but, um, because I just, you know, just the opportunity didn't arise. But um, yeah, I've been a big believer of them. And, um, I haven't, uh, I haven't not found a deer yet, you know, shooting. Yeah, I think there's a lot of positives.
Speaker 3:Man, it's like we could go down a whole rabbit hole with that, oh sure for sure, and yeah, I I was planning on going a little. It's funny because I've always shot like 100 grain right, and I've known people around here shoot 85. Wow, 80 muzzy makes a 85 I was just gonna say yeah, yeah, the MX3, I think so.
Speaker 1:I shot their 85 grain as a kid you know gosh 30 years ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I and I've and I've kind of and I think part of that though you evolve and I'm like, honestly, speed is less important than accuracy, right? There's a lot of arguments, like people would argue me on that, but reality is, it doesn't matter. Your bow could shoot 600 feet per second, if you can't hit what you're aiming at, it doesn't matter, right? So what am I gaining? And I'm gaining a whole lot of energy downfield when I have a heavier, you know I think that's one of the drawbacks.
Speaker 1:At the same point, you speak about accuracy when it comes to that, and I think, seeing both sides of it, I think that tuning an arrow for a single bevel broadhead or fixed broadhead takes more time, you know, in order to be accurate. And then tuning your bow, uh, so that it's. You know it's shooting bullet holes, you know bear shaft tuning and all that. These things take time and not everybody, not everybody's willing to put the time into that, because it's not as important. And they can go, they can grab a, you know, they can go grab a broadhead, a mechanical, off the shelf and they can buy a dozen arrows or a half dozen arrows out of a box and put it together. And that's good for them and that's fine and and there's nothing wrong with that at all, for sure, you know um. But then I mean I'm an engineer by trade and so I just I got the geek sauce going on, so I'm gonna tinker, you know, till I die. So I'm not. I mean, I build my own arrows, I, you know um. So I love it. I love that. I love being able to sit there and say, okay, cool, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, I made this little change to that little change. And here's my group size. And you know, now, like, now I enjoy shooting out to like 70 yards, you know, and seeing how accurate I can be, and it's, and I love it. I love it and, which is crazy, because two years ago, when I first started shooting compound again, you know, I was, I had target panic, so bad and I was I could barely shoot a three inch group at 15 yards. And now, and, and you know, and now I'm trying to, now I'm trying to shoot a two inch group at 60 yards. You know, like, and your goals change, you know. So that's all part of it, it's all part of your own personal journey and progression, right?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, 100 100.
Speaker 2:Um. So john we, I want to talk about the page a little bit. Yeah, when did that start Like? Where did you get? What was the whole basis behind it? Was it something like, like a lot of us, we start a lot of these pages just so, you know, we can just share our experiences in the outdoors? You know there's, of course, a lot of people out there, like on my personal page, that they don't like seeing seeing all that type of stuff. So this was kind of like a thing, and then it created into something more is that what it started as?
Speaker 3:so it started, actually with a with another guy. I was working with a guy, um, by name of steve different steve, uh, and he, he and I were working on it together and, uh, he, basically, he, basically he got to a point where he was like I was doing everything and he was like, yeah, I'm out, I got, I got other stuff to do, I'm not going to worry about this, whatever, right. But basically what it was for years was uh, it was back when Instagram was a picture place, right I mean, it used to only be pictures, right, there was hardly any videos um was that people would send us their trophies and we would post them, and that was basically the what we did. So so I actually, um, there's not a lot of people I hunt with, uh, I've got like, and part of it is, I don't know a ton of people that are as intense about it as I am right. So, so there's people like, like, hey, if you aren't going to take it seriously, I don't want to hunt with you, like, and I'm not trying to be arrogant, but if you're't going to take it seriously, I don't want to hunt with you, like, and I'm not trying to be arrogant, but if you're up wandering around the woods when I've spent hours and hours to know that this is the spot to sit on this day ahead of time, like I really don't want to be in the woods with you. So, um, you know, I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, but I just, you know, and and and you know, I started off, you know, as a, as a gun hunter, and I don't trust most people.
Speaker 3:I know that gun hunt, so I just maybe that's a trust problem that I have in my own heart. I don't know. I have neighbors that unload guns and everything, so I'm like, hey, stay over. There really became an opportunity for me not just to share other people's stories but also to connect with people that are as passionate as I am about the hunting world and not just the hunting world there's passionate about the outdoor lifestyle in general. So it really opened up a lot of doors, especially as the page grew, because I, you know it it exploded.
Speaker 3:I had several different seasons of explosive growth, like where thousands of people were just, you know, if you, if you can get a you know they talk about those viral moments right, if you get something to go viral, you can. You know, I had. I had a video go viral this fall and I ended up with like 7,000 new followers because of it. I mean it was, but it was. It was stupid amount of people saw it, right, it was just ridiculous. So so I kind of started shifting.
Speaker 3:I've gone back and forth, you know. So I kind of started shifting. I've gone back and forth. You know, hey, first it was everybody's trophies and I was a faceless entity, right, like people never saw me on the page. It was just there's this brand, who's behind it? Nobody knew. I never put any of my stuff on there, I never put pictures of myself on there, whatever. And then I wanted, and then I was like you know, if I want to really break into this industry in any way and work with companies and stuff, like they have to know there's a person. So so I started to infuse some of my own story into it here and there.
Speaker 3:You know my video, I video every hunt and as I did that, I found I started to make more connections with people because, again, I'm now a real person, I'm not just a brand um and uh and but I but I'll be honest, I play the game right. I play the algorithm game a little bit for growth. So I'll put some Mimi stuff up there hunting humor, whatever, because I know it attracts eyeballs, right, exactly. But you know, and then come fall, you're going to see it's going to shift back to mostly only my stuff. You know there's going to be, you know, because, again, I video every hunt so and there's a lot of hunts so and I video every deer, so I don't care if it's a little same maybe or a buck, you know, um, so yeah, it's really morphed over the years, but it's really opened up a lot of doors, uh, for me, you know, companies that I've been able to connect with, I I actually, you know I've managed a number of businesses, instagram pages and stuff that are in the hunting space over the years and, um, you know, very limited basis now, um, but you know, again, it's it's really, it's really opened up. You know, turned, uh, open up a lot of doors for relationships and different things, and it's also given me a chance to test a lot of products.
Speaker 3:I don't, um, I don't buy a lot of stuff anymore. I don't really need a lot of stuff either, but, um, I haven't bought since in years sun control stuff. You know, people give me products to test and whatever, and which. That gets you in trouble too, because you get stuff and you're like this is garbage, now what do I do with it? Like, and I had a guy, you know, not that long ago I wrote. I wrote a guy an email. I was like dude, I cannot promote this. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude about your vision, but this is not. This is not something I really believe in. So so, so you know, cause I will.
Speaker 3:I was getting a lot for a while People were trying to pay me to put stuff on a page and stuff, cause they just want the eyeballs and I was like no, my, my integrity is more important than your money to me, so I'm not going to sell my soul to make a couple extra bucks. Like, it's not, it's not worth it. You know so because I've also tried very hard to make it a family-friendly page, right. You know, if you have a kid sit next to you, you shouldn't be worried about covering. You know if you're on my page, you don't need to cover up the. You know the woman that that child shouldn't be looking at or covering up language that the kid doesn't need to see or hear, you know.
Speaker 3:So I'm like no, I just I just want to, you know, put put forth a product that's entertaining, that at times is educational, it's humorous, um, but it's, it's family friendly and safe and it's going to honor whoever's on there.
Speaker 3:Like, we're not going to, I'm not going to post stuff that's making fun of a company or another hunter or any of that stuff, and and you're going to see a little faith infused in that. I mean, I'm a, I'm a pastor in real life, right, I'm. I'm not a, not a professional hunter by any means, um and uh, so my faith will shine through. I mean, I just hosted, uh, hosted, a sportsman's dinner, uh, at our church, and actually a lot of the companies that I'm associated with online sent, sent me stuff to use as door prizes. So you know so. But the fun, the funny part is, like you know, I do, I'm on podcasts and stuff quite a bit and I I get a lot of invites and, um, you know, again, help manage some other pages. I have a large page. Most people, like in my church, have no clue because I just don't talk.
Speaker 3:I just don't talk about it. I'm like the people now the last year or so, like there's been a couple people that have found me online. They've, so I have a fairly large, you know, fingerprint, uh, so they they're like, hey, I didn't know they're like. And I had a guy, the other he's like, yeah, my pastor's an influencer. Like I'll tell anybody. Yes, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's all. It's just a lot of fun, you know, for me to you know, I mean, that's I wouldn't have met you guys. You know, yeah, um, outside of this, and uh, met a guy.
Speaker 3:So christian outdoors podcast is a very large podcast, um, to do with the outdoor world and brings up a lot of faith and whatever. So obviously somebody I I connected with Pete Rogers and we met on Instagram and he's a good friend. Now he came up and spoke for our event last week and so we're hoping to hunt together this fall and it just opens up a lot of great doors. I think social media can be used in a positive way. Unfortunately, it's not always the case. I know I was very rambly with my answer there.
Speaker 2:No, that was great.
Speaker 3:It's shifted a lot over the years too. It's shifted a lot over the years too, and I'm really kind of looking at you know. I've got a few projects in the works, even some, some products I'm looking to possibly market, but I'm still just not a hundred percent sure how hard I want to go in that direction, Cause you know, I have, you know I have real life, I have a family, I have and I and I want to hunt more than I want to make more money.
Speaker 3:That's I think that's part of it and all that other stuff and uh it it. Just you know it takes a lot of time. So I'm like do I really want to do this? I don't know.
Speaker 2:So yeah, less, less, you could be out in the woods. I mean I want I honestly, I'll tell people straight up, I wanted to be a, a warden at one point until the the guy was like, yeah, you know you don't have that much time for hunting and I was like, ah, okay, never mind, because, like this is, I love doing this. But it goes on the fact, like these pages, like it opens the door, like I would never have met steve you, I, all the guys on you know that that are part of uh, boondocks hunting and, and the, the companies that would that we network with. You know, from dave and chris from urban and only bows to you know whitetail bloodline and people all over from north, south and and canada and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Like that's the part that I think I really love too is just meeting all these people you never would have met and now you have so much in common with these people, like I have more in common now with with with the guys that I talked on a basis between hunting and fishing and everything like that that I do, like with kids. I are guys I grew up with and since I was like six years old, and I love those, you know I love my friends but, like I talked to Steve and the guys more than I do talk to, like most people, because what we're talking about is hunting, hunting, fishing Like we all have a lot in common and we never would have been here without social media.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and it really has blown my mind, like the doors that have opened for me, you know, and um, it's, it's just, it's just awesome, you know, and I have some great friends because of it and, uh, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change it, so you know. Then I mentioned hunting in Georgia. That was a guy I met on Instagram. My wife was worried I'd get murdered when I got there, but I didn't get murdered.
Speaker 1:So it all worked out you know that's good.
Speaker 2:I got a few few, few quick questions for you and then I'll let you get going. Yeah, what, what would your dream hunt be, and where?
Speaker 3:Oh, so that's it. That's an easy answer, most of it. I don't know if the where is as much as, what would it be? It would be a bow hunt for elk during the rut.
Speaker 2:Oh elk has made a. It made a comeback on our show, hi.
Speaker 3:Colorado, maybe maybe Idaho, um, you know, or uh or um, maybe maybe a moose hunt up in Alaska. I think I would actually chase elk more than I. I think I'd like to go after an elk more than I would a moose hunt up in Alaska. But I think I would actually chase elk more than I. I think I'd like to go after an elk more than I would a moose.
Speaker 2:Oh man, that's, that's how it's. Elk and moose are always going to be. I think that like the top two, like you know, and that's been the top two on our show for the last you know, since we started.
Speaker 2:That's usually the biggest answer. Elk has definitely now this season, I think, overpass moose, but moose won last year. Um, but um, okay, I mean that that's a good one. I mean either of those answers I do. I do appreciate, like both of them, but moose's moose is my, has my heart, that I will. I'll definitely say um, what? What is your favorite hunting snack, my favorite snacker?
Speaker 3:in the woods snack. You know I'm I'm not a huge snacker in the woods, if I'm honest, and part of that is because I it makes noise, you know. So I'm like, but, um, but I also like a lot, you know and I'm gonna sound really spoiled when I say this but I have x. Well, I just lost access to property right across the road from my house, which sucks, but I had access to roughly seven stands that I could get to all in under 10 minutes, right, so, yeah, like so I. So I could eat breakfast, hunt, go home and get a snack if I wanted to get a snack, like so, um, but I'll. You know I typically have a cereal bar or two in there. Like that's about it. I don't, I don't do, I don't eat much, I don't drink much in the tree either, I just uh, which is probably not healthy, but I'm like, hey, I'm dehydrated, I'm not peeing.
Speaker 1:John, I can completely identify. I'm the same way, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, typical or non-typical.
Speaker 3:Um, that's a good question. Uh, I mean I've never shot a weird, non-to-actually my first deer I ever shot, or my not my first year. My first buck had a drop time. Um, that's so cool. Not a big deer, he had three antlers on, let's see. He had three on his right side and then he had like the spike sticking up on this side and then he had a drop time. I mean goofy looking animal, right, but but still it was cool. I didn't know he had a drop time when I killed him. Uh, first first bow buck ever, right, had a drop 10. I've not shot anything with a drop 10 since, although there was a freak um that I messed up on, which is a very tough thing, um several years ago, and I will say I've never wanted a deer more in my life than deer, so I wouldn't mind. A non-typical Gotcha.
Speaker 2:If you could have property in any state.
Speaker 3:What state would it be? Oh man, that's a tough one because, like, I'm a whiteted deer hunter, right, so I immediately think of the white-tailed deer things, but states, you know, illinois, kansas, southern Ohio, indiana, whatever. But I also would love to live in a place where there's more species to hunt, like that's one of the issues. Living in the Northeast, as you know, right, I mean, I think you guys have more bear out your way than I do here, um, but, but really, that's it right, bear, you know, as far as big game, like bear, bear and white-tailed deer. But man, I don't, I don't know, because I'm I'm obsessed with white tail, but I, man, if I could go somewhere where I could kill a whitetail, kill a mule deer, kill an elk, kill a bear, yeah, yeah. So I, so I don't know, the most bang for your buck, yeah, yeah, and I and I love the mountains, so maybe, maybe I, maybe I'd go to Colorado, maybe.
Speaker 2:That'd be a good one. Oh no, I don't think anyone said colorado yet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I might, might think about that so you can go again. You're, you're going after muleys and and also, although idaho's got a lot of yeah, and they have moose there too, yeah, yeah, there's smaller moose than you see up in, you know, yukon alaska, but so that might be a you know there are plenty of, really I don't know there's plenty of huge whitetail in the idaho mountains.
Speaker 2:There's no yeah about that if yeah, if you can get. If you get sponsored by one company and I know you you work with, with a bunch or so, anyone that you've already worked with or you would want to work with what company would that be?
Speaker 3:Oh, I could get sponsored by Like. Sponsored Like. Are they paying me or are they giving me their stuff?
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, they're paying you. They're paying you, paying you and giving you stuff.
Speaker 3:Oh, I like that, I like that. That's. Uh, um, I like that, I like that, that's. You know, I've really I've been eyeballing elite bows lately, also some of the new stuff by Bear. I mean Bear's a little cheaper, which is also attractive to me. Um, buy bear, I mean bears a little cheaper, which is also attractive to me. Um, yeah, I've never really thought about that. That's, that's a good question yeah, it's a.
Speaker 2:It's a. We get some good answers when we ask yeah, I think it would definitely in the bow, in the, in the bow world, because um you know every few years.
Speaker 3:you want to upgrade. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Listen, I want to upgrade every year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I want, yeah, want versus want versus deed to different yeah, um, man, I don't, I don't know, I'd hesitate to, uh, I hesitate to. I was just on the bear archery podcast, so maybe I have to say bear, I don't know so. But yeah, one of those is one of the nice flagship bows by bear. You know, elite is just high end all the way. I think, um, I would say not matthews, and I'm not knocking you if you're a matthews guy and I'm. I saw steve's eyes raised. Are you a man?
Speaker 3:yeah, I got md3x well, the reason I say that is because, uh, shows that shows, shops that aren't matthew dealers, can't work on their bows. That's, that's the only reason. Like I wouldn't knock them. They make quality stuff. I believe that. But I'm like again, if I'm going to start hopefully I'll start traveling more in the next few years like, god forbid, I have an issue with the bow. I want to be able to go into the. I want to be able to go into a bow shop if I'm in, you know, illinois or whatever, and be like hey, they're like, hey, we can't work on your bow, you gotta drive another 60 miles. So that's the only thing. Like I have nothing bad to say about their products, but that's the only thing. That kind of holds me back.
Speaker 1:I the only reason I shoot matthews is because my cousin shot matthews and was like you should check out matthews and I went and I shot hoyt and I shot matthews because the two biggest names and I stuck with Matthews. And doesn't mean I won't shoot something some other day, but that's where I'm at right now. I can't buy a new go every year, maybe once every five years.
Speaker 2:I wish, oh, god, um, and, and last one, um and I this is, this is one of my favorite If you could hunt with someone from the past you know, doesn't matter how long ago family member, someone famous, dead or alive who would it be?
Speaker 3:Oh man.
Speaker 2:Fred Bear. Yeah, could you imagine doing like a bear?
Speaker 3:hunt with Fred Bear or something like. Oh man, yeah, so I'd say actually two guys Sored bear, or do you know?
Speaker 2:larry weissman, mr whitetail, uh, I, I've heard, I I've heard he's a big tv celebrity guy, probably 20 years ago.
Speaker 3:Uh, he's a, he's a biologist, a whitetail biologists, and uh, I wouldn't mind hunting with a handgun with him. So, handgun hunt some deer down in texas, you know? Yeah, but certainly yeah, fred bear all the way for bowman dude that'd be sick yeah, yeah, would, yeah that I think.
Speaker 2:I think he's right. He's right up there with one of the guys that I'd be especially when you talk about somebody if you could bring back for a day or whatever, like that's sitting down with him and doing some of those hunts back, especially back then. Like now we have all the technology and everything like that, but back then there wasn't any of that and it was everything was more remote back then and just doing what he did back then. It's just a completely different level than it is now the ultimate woodsman.
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, and people like that, honestly you could drop them anywhere in the world and they're gonna go kill an animal like he's, just good, he's yep, they're gonna survive.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah yeah, I'd be happy to just walk around with him and just listen to him.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't even yeah, hey, can we just have a?
Speaker 1:coffee.
Speaker 3:We don't have to hunt, just talk.
Speaker 2:Just talk, sit by the campfire, we cook some food and you know, and then there you go, Just just learn the trades and hear some of the stories, oh my God, the stories that that he must have from from all these hunts and just doing what he did. It's gotta be. Yeah, I would, I would honestly, I think if, if we're talking about just having a conversation with a hunter, I think it would definitely be him Like if I, if I or you know Teddy Roosevelt Teddy Roosevelt would be an interesting one too as well Um, but I don't know, I might have to give it to Fred bear Definitely. I would definitely say but uh, john, I, I want to definitely thank you so much. I mean, I, I, we didn't. There's so much more that we that we can get into. I would love to get you back on again oh, you know I would like to hear some some you know some other stories.
Speaker 2:you know about your your first bokeh. You usually would get into that, but this was such a great podcast that we we were we were just going in and it flowed very well and I'm extremely happy and thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 3:Oh, my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me Appreciate it Definitely.
Speaker 2:Well, we'll definitely talk soon. I'll let you know when we're going to be releasing this. We're on a mode where we are hammering out recordings right now, so once I get it all edited and everything like that and map out who's going what and where and when but this is, this has been a phenomenal episode. I want to thank you so much.
Speaker 3:I appreciate it. Thank you Mike, thank you Steve, thanks John.
Speaker 2:No problem, and I hope you guys enjoy this episode. The link in the description is going to be down below. Go check out John over there at Wild Game Freaks. Great stuff going on and you know we'll. We'll see you guys next time.