2024 Turkey Talk Wrap Up

Welcome to the 2024 Turkey Talk Wrap-Up!. We kick off with an exciting announcement from merican Mike of Backdown Productions about the upcoming fundraiser for Echo Farms Hunting Club. Set for June 29th in Henryville, Pennsylvania, this family-friendly event features an archery competition, raffle prizes, and plenty of activities for the kids. Whether you can make it to the event or not, there are many ways to get involved and contribute.

In this episode, we reflect on the rollercoaster of the 2024 turkey hunting season with special guests, Kyle "the Turkey Killer" and Squatch. Kyle dives deep into his numerous scouting missions, sharing valuable insights about bird activity and planning for the next season. Squatch offers a fresh perspective from his successful season in upstate New York. Comparing hunting experiences between New York and New Jersey, you'll gain a richer understanding of the unique challenges and successes each region presents.

We also delve into advanced strategies that can transform your turkey hunting approach. From mastering the art of turkey calls to subtle yet impactful scratching techniques, we share personal stories and practical advice for both seasoned hunters and beginners. Learn why communicating with hens can often be the key to success and how staying patient and observant can yield better results. Join us as we share our passion for the outdoors and prepare for our next hunting adventure.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

What's going on. It's American Mike with Backdown Productions. Mike, I just want to take the opportunity to thank you for letting me share this with your listeners. On June 29th, from 11am to 7pm, we are hosting a fundraiser for Echo Farms Hunting Club out in Henryville, pennsylvania. Tickets are $25 for adults and $15 for youths. If anyone is interested in attending this fundraiser, please feel free to hit me up, hit Mike up, contact any one of us and we will get tickets mailed out to you.

Speaker 1: 0:35

Tickets will no longer be on sale after June 15th. From there it will be the gate fee only of $30. Kids price remains the same. At the fundraiser it'll be the gate fee only of $30. Kids price remains the same. At the fundraiser it'll be food and drinks and kids entertainment. We're gonna have a bouncy house, popcorn machine, cotton candy machine, a bunch of games set up for the kids. So it's a family-friendly event. It's not just for hunters. We have an archery competition going on. We have first, second and third place trophies. We got a bunch of raffle prizes being donated from certain companies. We have a lot set up and a lot planned and I would greatly appreciate all of the support I can get towards this event, whether you can make it or not, we are accepting donations, whether you want to donate cash directly to the event or something to raffle off for a prize.

Speaker 2: 1:32

Any and everything is appreciated and thank you very much welcome back to the garden, state outdoors and Podcast presented by Boondocks Hunting. I'm your host, mike Nitre.

Speaker 3: 2:08

I'm.

Speaker 2: 2:10

Frank Mastika, today we're doing a two-parter because Peyton is not available for today and you know we got a great story that we got to get done with Peyton and I wasn't able to record with him. He is currently packing up and he will be moving down to Philly, I think, come tomorrow, so he will not be available till Monday. So we're going to do the first part of the 2024 Turkey wrap up right now with you know, the man himself, kyle the Turkey killer, and then the legend Squatch Squatch. Welcome back to the show. I know your episode has yet to drop, but I cannot wait for it to drop. So now, before your official episodes drop, you're already going to be in a in an episode with our turkey talks, uh series.

Speaker 2: 2:59

Welcome, welcome to the show, guys. Well, thank you appreciate it. Um, boys, what a uh, what a wrap-up to the season. I mean, kyle, I don't, I think, I think you got out like once or twice before uh the the end of the season. I know you definitely got out on last day and I think you kind of just said screw it, I'm just gonna go out and see what you can do. How'd you make out?

Speaker 4: 3:25

um saw a lot of birds, um, just milling around. Like I said, the last the back side of like the last week of the season, more so, like all of the last week of the season the birds are gonna start flocking up again. Um saw, saw a lot of hens with some faults and um, it was good. Um, I was mainly like I just wanted to see what was still around. I saw a lot of jakes, a lot, a lot, a lot of jakes. I was really happy with um.

Speaker 4: 3:54

I ended up getting on one bird, um, but he was just with the flock and they were out in the middle of this field and, uh, there was no way I was calling them in, so I just let them be. I checked a couple other spots, saw some more birds, but, um, yeah, I was mainly like just looking for, looking towards next year and seeing get kind of an idea of what's gonna happen next year. Um, I know like a couple of my spots are gonna have at least three or four long beards at each spot, um, but it was more so, like I said, seeing what was left after the season. Um, you know, I saw a couple long beards but, like I said, it was more so of a scouting mission on the last day, but all in all in all, it was a good season for me. I'm happy with it. I'm happy with one bird, I'm happy with four birds. You know, at the end of the day I'm the turkey hunter. So it sucks the season's over, but you know, I'm definitely looking forward to next year.

Speaker 2: 5:01

No, definitely, definitely, and I'm extremely excited for next year. Now you know, before we dive into more of kind of what the the postseason looks like for you squash. Yeah, you had yourself a a successful season. I know you're out there with our, with our guy, uh, frank over there and everything like that uh, but I know upstate New York started I think a week, week and a half after New Jersey, correct, like I think it's like a Wednesday start. Yeah, we started on May 1st. Do you know why they start Like? It's such an odd like start date, like why the middle of the week? Why like or it's just you know. You have no idea. I never asked the question.

Speaker 5: 5:44

It's just because it's always been the beginning of May to the end of May is what they run the spring season at here in New York, and it's just whatever day it falls out on. I guess that's what they run with, just like years ago, growing up, we always had a Monday opener for rifle season and then they switched it to a Saturday starter. So I wish they'd do something like that, maybe with the turkey. But you know, sometimes you just can't talk to people. They just leave things the way they leave them.

Speaker 2: 6:16

Now you got out opening day correct. Take us through your season and how it went.

Speaker 5: 6:23

Sure, no problem. So, yeah, season started out. It went sure, no problem. So, uh, yeah, season started out. I went out opening day. Um, I went to uh over where I grew up. Um, there's 100 acres there that I take care of for a gentleman and, uh, I snuck around the back side of it because it was too wet to go over the stream. That was there. And then I ended up almost getting arrested by the next door property owner who I've known since I was eight years old. He, he just didn't know my truck. So I come out to town cops and they're like, hey, how you doing? And I'm like, hey, don't shoot, I'm friendly. And they were like, what are you doing? I'm like Turkey hunting. And I said, did Jerry call you? And they're like, yeah, I said, okay, let's go talk to Jerry because I've known him since I've been eight years old. So I drove up there to make a long story short. The guy's like, oh, yeah, I know him, it's OK, you guys can go. And you know, I thanked him. I said, hey, you know I'm a good guy, there's no problem, but that was opening day, so that was kind of a blown up morning.

Speaker 5: 7:18

My cousin just down the road, owns the property where I grew up. That was my grandparents' property, which is 27 acres. And he was successful. He shot a nice tom and when I stopped over to help him dress the bird out, he says you off tomorrow. I said yeah. He says well, why don't you come hunt with me? I said if you want me to, yeah, I said I don't care about shooting a bird or whatever, I'll just call if you want me to call him. He says, uh, nah, man, you know, shoot, shoot if you can.

Speaker 5: 7:47

So the next day we got there, got set up and I'm telling you, man, we had birds right at first light. I had a bird strutting out in front of me on, I put it on the YouTube channel and the bird was out there, silent, just strutting around. He had hens with him. We saw a bunch of birds and then about 10 o'clock I had a bird come into my left, behind us. He had circled around us in the morning. He was with another group. I heard him and he gobbled, but he gobbled at Ed's decoys that he had left out in another spot from the day before. I'm like Ed, why'd you leave the decoys out? He's like I just always leave them there. So that's what the bird gobbled at. He never saw us.

Speaker 5: 8:31

I got the bird on film but I got a tree in front of me and I can't shoot. I'm like, well, all right, long story short. We got up, moved. I heard the bird from about 120 yards away from us. We were going to set up in one spot. I said no, no, no, we got to go at them and we got to go at them hard. So we beat feet. We got within about 85 yards of the bird and we sat down and I just made some real subtle calls to it and it gobbled back and gobbled back and, sure enough, about 55, 60 yards I saw the head pop over a tree and the mighty 835 leveled that bird right out. So that was my bird. He was 24 pounds, had inch and a quarter spurs, close to a nine inch beard, nice, mature, fat tom for upstate New York. So that was my bird. And then I invited Frankie over to the next weekend and we had a close encounter there too. So you know I don't necessarily want to get into that unless Frank wants to tell you.

Speaker 2: 9:33

I believe Frank told it on the on the last episode. So the the it has been already discussed, frank was pretty, pretty open and honest about it and you know it's something that I think we had dealt with. You know now from what we talked about, from pattern, you know from the off season, our preseason and everything like that. So it was an ongoing unfortunate situation.

Speaker 5: 9:56

Hey, you know what, though it was a beautiful morning, I got to share a time with my brother there and calling a bird in, that was that. I mean, we, you, you couldn't even hear that bird barely when we started calling. And you know, I, I gotta, you know, give a little plug here, cause I'm the pro staff director for high no calls. And I'm telling you, man, not, I've used a bunch of calls in the past, but Frank can contest to it too. They, they just got a real sweet sound and I was able to fool that bird and get them in.

Speaker 5: 10:26

You know, it was, it was really, it was a cool morning. I mean, I felt real bad for him. What happened? If I could have threw him my gun I would have, but uh, you know it was, it was still. It was still an awesome experience seeing that bird and outwitting that bird. That bird worked us hard, man, really. I think he was deaf. I really think he was deaf because he went past us a couple of times and usually when a bird is that close, you don't have to be aggressive, and I was damn near almost throwing rocks at him. So it was pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 10:56

Yeah, no, it sounds. I remember getting the updates from from Frank and everything like that, and I mean it was, it was both and eye and you know, squatch, I don't know you this, but I I don't know if you know this I I missed a bird earlier that morning. Like the whole scenario, like, or you know, no, this was a different day Frank and I, both, early in the season, missed, both miss birds on the on the same day. Yeah, yeah, then you know a just a, a unfortunate, just malfunction, and hopefully, you know you got it all all situated. But the most important part is it's you're out in the woods, you're spending quality time listening and you, you did everything right. You know, and it was honestly one thing that was just out of your hands that you just, yeah, that's it. Like, besides that, most likely it would have been a, you know a, a dead bird and everything like that, but you know you got to be thankful for, for what you're given and you know, just enjoying what we do is that's what, that's what I love, you know, and it's we're, we're what.

Speaker 2: 12:04

A week, not even a week yet out of season. No, we are weak today, out of season. Yep, yeah, and it's boring already, like I'm kind of kind of bored, like it was fun chasing birds, like you know, for the first time for me, like it was, it was a blast. And it's like now I understand what you know kyle's going through a withdrawal, and I completely understand that. And every time now he what you know, kyle's going through a withdrawal, and I completely understand that. And every time now he talks, like you know, about turkeys. I'm starting to understand more. But now this off time, because there's no turkey hunting, there's no deer hunting, there's nothing to do up until you know, september for us, and you're here on September 14th.

Speaker 2: 12:44

14th, you know, deer season doesn't open back up till but it's, I don't know it's. You run your head through the hunts and now it's starting to get super hot out and it's like oh, well, it's prep time too.

Speaker 5: 12:57

You know it's it's not to cut you off, but it's it's prep time. I started bush hogging uh up where I hunt. Uh, last weekend uh had a run-in with a coyote, come right up to the machine three times and I think it was just offending it's, uh, it's. Then that's the only thing I could come up with. I don't think it was rabid, but um, but now's the time to prepare. You know, get your cameras out, get, start patterning deer, get your situation set up, because you don't want to be in there like two weeks before, and start pushing bucks out of your territory. Um, I, I fish. So, uh, sunday, my father and I are going up to the reservoir. We're going to try to catch some big trout, so I fill my summertime up with fishing until it gets real hot. Then I'll kick back in the ac and not mess around too much.

Speaker 2: 13:44

But yeah, you know, there's stuff there's stuff to do there is a uh I was talking about in the group chat, you know, and frank knows this, it was point. When they finally opened up the the evening hunt, I was like all right, I'm bringing my fishing pole in one hand, shotguns in the other hand, I'm just gonna hit the river, because there's a river right where the birds keep crossing and everything like that. I'm gonna fish during, like you know, the hottest part of the day and, just you know, relax and fish and then just sneak back into my spot and try to try to kill a turkey after I killed my first one. I think that actually might be the goal before I try to kill one with the bow because I would like to catch a fish, and then literally go try to shoot a turkey, like right after or vice versa, either one, but um, for you, you know, are you scratch? Are you the? Is this what you live and die for? Is turkey hunting? Are you just a deer hunter, like you know?

Speaker 2: 14:41

just a deer hunter and you, you do this. Uh, you know, you let you just like to do everything.

Speaker 5: 14:48

Type of type of hunter yeah, I'm a multi-faceted love of everything. Man. I, I, you know, whatever the season is, it's turkey, or turkey to me, or like small elk, you know, and I can't. I haven't gone out and hunted elk, but they talk back to you and they're fun and it's, it's so interactive and I mean, you know, you, you get out there and you you listen for them and then you make the calls and then, okay, now I gotta give them the pitch, I gotta sell them that I'm a hen and I'm not that attractive, believe me. So so I mean, you know, I got to sound attractive to them, so I got to hear their frequencies, what they like. I was explaining to Frank on a triple diaphragm that I can actually, then I can kick in the second one and I can actually then work the whole call with the three. Yeah, I was explaining that to him and showing him how the different tones, how much tone, how much sound, how much frequency that you could get out of one diaphragm call in your mouth, and it's, it's a key thing to do, because sometimes a bird has you pinned down and you can't move and the only thing you have to use is your mouth. So you know, it's real, real critical. You sit there and learn the birds, you learn the frequencies they like to hear. I mean some birds like raspy, some birds like a real high, squeaky, pitch, something you would even like say, oh my God, that's not really a good sound for a turkey and they'll respond so. And then it's aggressiveness not to be aggressive. And it's like I explained to Frank when we were out too. I said you got to read the temperature of a bird. You know if a bird's cutting you off, you guys you know, I'm sure you know if a bird's cutting you off, he's hot, he wants to come to you. If he's calling and he's just walking with a hen, and you know, okay, maybe a 40 chance. If he's cold he's just gobbling off the roost. You know what I mean. So it's all that key rule of learning what to listen for and then how to respond back to the bird.

Speaker 5: 16:54

And I always say curiosity kills a bird. It really does it'll. It'll get them every time. If you can just scratch leaves and they're on their way, you'll get them. You know, sometimes you just got to sit tight. So but no, I love, I'm a diehard deer hunter man. I mean, don't get me wrong I love going bear hunting. I love going after turkeys deer, I love fishing. It's just you know. Put me in, I'm ready to go. Whatever it is, I'll go it don't matter.

Speaker 2: 17:22

Now, kyle, for you, what is it? You know you talked about a little bit the last 100 years, more of kind of like you're taking a look at what you have for next year and everything like that. But you know, I know, with deer season coming up, but how much are you now? When do you start the next phase of getting ready for the turkey season? Like, when do you start scouting and doing all that type of stuff now? When's the best time to just start that?

Speaker 4: 17:49

So I do it two weeks after the season.

Speaker 4: 17:51

So now, like this week and I was going to go to a couple of my spots but I got work now, but normally, like this weekend coming up, I'd go around to all my spots first thing in the morning, um, I'd listen. Sometimes you hear birds gobble, sometimes you don't. Um, and I'd, like I said I would really see and see if I could find any poults. I would look, I would kind of like, just kind of like take a mental note, like you know, okay, there was a hen with some over here, there was some over here, and I would just drop new pins on onyx where I'd seen them, um, and I would just really try to get numbers. So you know, on on this piece of property, you know, I saw three hens, uh, there's probably like two dozen poles with them, and I saw two gates or whatever. So I would do that, I'd drive down to the next spot, um, I don't see anything here. And then I would do that and I would spend probably like three, four hours in the morning just trying to locate birds. Just so I have an idea of, you know, possibilities to scout first next year, um, obviously a lot can happen between now and you know, like march 1st is like when I really start diving into finding birds and stuff. But from now until march 1st next year there's a lot that can go wrong. You know, obviously, predators, um, you know everything along those lines.

Speaker 4: 19:26

But I really, like I said, I try to find, go to my spots, see and try to get a count on what bird, how many birds are there, how many birds aren't there. I mean, granted, this is just a general a, a general idea. I'm not saying like, okay, I saw, uh, four jakes here yesterday. Now, I know, opening day there's going to be four jakes here, or there's going to be four toms here. Like that's not well the odds of that happening. It might, but it's just more of like a numbers thing for me. So next year during march I can really hit those spots and really see.

Speaker 4: 20:09

Okay, you know, let me look back in on on x or let me look back on my logs. Okay, uh, there was four jakes, four hens and two dozen poles. What is this property like? What is it producing now? Like, what birds hung out there, what birds are still alive? And just kind of like reference. Okay, well, there's this, this and this. Now, you know, it's just kind of like I said, it's it's an idea and it's it's something to do. Number one, number two it just gives you one step ahead of your scouting next year, instead of going to random spots. Okay, I know, as of last year, the there was you know a dozen birds here, or there was two dozen birds over here, so that's kind of like what I do. Um, like the two weekends after turkey season ends and then again starting in the spring, march 1st, is when I'm really like shed hunting, but I'm more so like looking for birds now say, right now, say you spent some time at a spot and you know you.

Speaker 2: 21:18

You say you killed like two birds, or you know of people that you kill the bird and or multiple people know of people that you killed a bird and or multiple people killed a bird. Is that, when you're going into your prep and you're going through the inventory and you're taking a look of what's there and everything like that, are you at all thinking, all right, maybe this spot needs at least another year and I'm not going to hunt this spot, you know the next year? Is that ever going through your? You know your thought process, because I to justin um, I think, last week, and he was saying I think they killed two or three birds at this one area and he said that he won't even touch it the next season. So is that something that that you're doing too as well?

Speaker 4: 21:57

I don't believe that and I'll tell you why I don't believe that, because I'll use this as an example. Excuse me, I'll use this as an example. Let's say you're deer hunting a spot, right, september comes and you end up killing the biggest buck of your life in there. What happens when a mature buck leaves an area A good, good, good, good area More deer are going to move in. Turkeys are very, very similar. The reason why somebody killed multiple birds in this spot is why, then? That's a question you need to ask yourself how come guys are killing so many birds here? What is here that is drawing the turkeys here? You got to look at what the food is, right. You got to look at also the pressure. So, um, one particular spot that I immediately think of that I hunt, um, there's always like three or four birds that killed out of there every year, and then the following year there's another five or six birds in there. Why? It's because of that area. The turkeys are just drawn to that area for reasons that makes them feel safe. Um, you know, there's good roosting trees. Um, the the food is good, the vegetation is good, the whole nine yards. That's why they're so drawn to the area. So, as far as not going like, if I go and kill, uh, three birds out of this spot, I'm going back to that spot next year, there's going to be more birds that move in there throughout the whole, I'm gonna think about how many months is it between now and next turkey season? You know what I mean? 10 months. So you're you're gonna sit there and tell me in the next 10 months, more turkeys aren't gonna move into that spot that turkeys love, apparently because people kill birds there. That's just, that's just my two cents into it, you know. But, like I said, yeah, it's the same thing with deer. How come this deer got so big a living right here? Obviously because it's good. So another deer is going to move in there, you know so.

Speaker 4: 24:05

And birds and birds, they move around, just like you know deer run around there on the rut. It's the same thing. Birds move around, birds cross property lines. You know you could be hunting this spot and, like you know, there's two birds in here. You kill those two birds. Well, you have no idea what's 50 yards to your left on the other side of that property line, on the other side of them, pine trees or whatever the case may be. Well, you have no idea what's 50 yards to your left, on the other side of that property line, on the other side of them pine trees or whatever the case may be. Well, you have no idea what kind of birds over there just because they're not talking to mean they're not there. You know what I mean. So you just got to look at you know territory, wise vegetation, food cover, nesting areas, you know just stuff that really, that really, really really draws turkeys to that area no, that that makes absolute sense.

Speaker 2: 24:48

I mean, you know, especially when you put it that way, it's you know um, but uh, for, for frank, you know when you're, when you're looking back at your season, you know, besides the um, you, besides the mishap, what is something that you can take away as a positive from your season.

Speaker 3: 25:10

I definitely learned a lot as far as talking to them why I see what they're doing, especially on our property upstate New York. I thought I was going to do better. I thought I had them figured out. It was definitely a mistake on my part that I didn't scout it as much as I did, you know. But you know, now I kind of figured out, you know. But, uh, you know, now I kind of figured out, you know, um, pretty much like where they're going to, why they're doing it.

Speaker 3: 25:54

Um, and that's actually one of my spots I gave up is where my uncle, you know, killed his bird. So I mean, it was, I was happy for him, but uh, I would have to say also that, um, squatch talk taught me a lot hunting with him, you know, because I I remember there was one thing in particular when he, when we hunted over by him, he goes. We walked in, we didn't hear not a single gobble, nothing. And he goes. Just he's like, trust me, just relax, we're gonna hang out probably about 9, 30, once this, once the sun comes out, these birds are gonna fire up. And wouldn't you know it was? I think it was. You remember what time it was.

Speaker 5: 26:34

Squatch was like quarter to 10 probably yeah, it was about quarter to 10, because I was starting to have to help myself.

Speaker 2: 26:40

I said watch you came all the way out here to home with me, and then I'm gonna be wrong one of these times, you know, yeah, yeah, they were pretty far.

Speaker 5: 26:47

They had me sweating a little bit. I didn't want to look like a goofball in front of you yeah, but you know what you know.

Speaker 3: 26:52

You did teach me though, um, especially because I remember you you were calling and nothing with the turkey calls, and then, once you switched over to the crow call is when we heard our first gobble. I would have never done that, yeah, if I was there by myself, so that I was like that's cool now real quick for for squatching kyle, what?

Speaker 2: 27:14

what is it about, you know, maybe switching it to the crow call, that that it calls those birds to start, uh, react, um, calling back. Like what, was it just trying something different? That maybe not everyone has been doing the same thing with the alahoots and everything like that? Like, or is it, you know, just something? They just always do it when it's a, when it's a crow call crows are the arch enemy of a turkey.

Speaker 5: 27:39

Yeah, okay, what a crow does when a turkey lands on a limb to roost, a damn crow will go in between the main part of the tree and the turkey and he'll actually walk towards the turkey and push the turkey off the roost limb and they hate, hate, hate crows. They, just when a crow makes that caw, they gobble they. They just hate them. It's a territorial thing and I'm sure Kyle will agree, or he's probably had the same kind of stuff running with the crows and a lot of. It's just a frequency. It's a high, high pitch and it shocks them into gobbling when they hear that, you know ah, ah. When they hear that they just gobble, you call it a shock gobble.

Speaker 5: 28:21

So when all else fails, when I want to locate a bird, use a crow call, and I've got an old Primo's one and it sounds really, really cool and it's very high pitch. You can change the tone of it by squeezing down on the reeds and a shock gobble will make a bird. You know they'll fire up. Even when they don't want to talk, they'll fire up. Um, some guys use a peacock call too. I don't know if you ever heard that. It's a real high pitch. Uh, like scream, like a peacock makes so, but it's it's more just a frequency thing, but it's also their enemy. They don't, they don't like crows. They really hate them.

Speaker 4: 28:55

They hate them yeah, and a lot of it too. Like me, we probably honestly have the same primo's call. I'm not gonna lie, um, but no, like I've said in on on a lot of other podcasts, man, like I, I've mentioned the crow call, you know, multiple times. You know, like I said, locating birds and trying, like, what do we do? We talk about a last podcast or the podcast before that, I don't remember, but one of the podcasts was, you know I was talking about. You know, when you're trying to locate birds, like you're not going to sit there and take your box call, or you know your, your diaphragm, or, and you're not just going to scream like, like hens, don't scream, that's not what they do. So what do you use? What's another thing you can use to locate a bird? Okay, use your crow call, because a crow call is going to react to that.

Speaker 4: 29:46

You know my Kentucky hunt this year. Um, you know it was birds on the limb first thing in the morning and then it was very sporadic gobbles. It was the crows. It was um to uh, the farmer's uh machine next door birds gobbled to that. A plane flew over and my buddy texted me and he's like y'all, did you hear any birds gobble on that. When that jet flew over, I'm like, yeah, he's like all right, I wasn't crazy because he was. He was on the same property but he was. It was like massive property but he was all the way on the other side. It was almost like a quarter mile and his birds gobbled too that he was hunting when that plane flew over. So like a lot of times they're going to shot gobble to that, but um, that crow call man I. I highly highly recommend that.

Speaker 2: 30:35

That must be a need in your best now one more thing that I that I kind of find interesting and something that I I notice, and you guys talk, or you said, you know, sit back and wait, and you know, like that, 930 ish, you know you're going to hear, you're going to hear some birds. I've noticed, do you think, a lot of hunters, turkey hunters, who are maybe they don't, they don't know, maybe they just you know they're just not patient enough. I notice a lot of people will leave the woods well before that time. So if the woods is silent or you know it's not going the way that they're, that they want it to go, they kind of just get up out of there and, just, you know, just leave.

Speaker 2: 31:16

Is that something that you guys have noticed and something you recommend to anyone who's new getting into it? And it's something you recommend to anyone who's new getting into it? Just you know what, be patient, just hold your, hold your horses and, you know, give it more longer of a time. Um, especially if they don't have multiple pieces to jump back and forth or the the property that they're hunting is not big enough where they they can kind of do all that maneuvering it's the same thing as hunting the rut.

Speaker 4: 31:41

Yeah, think of it that way. Guys get out of the woods at 9 o'clock and they want to go back in at 1, or they get out at 10 and they go back in at 2. What happens between 10 and 2? You hear all the horror stories. Their target buck is standing underneath their stand. It's the same thing. You got to look at it this way.

Speaker 4: 31:58

I'm not one to sit in one spot for, we'll say, four or five hours of turkey hunt. I'm a run-and-gun guy. I got a lot of spots. I've sent you pictures of my onyx dude. I have over 500 pins just in New Jersey. Easily. I'm always run-and-gunning.

Speaker 4: 32:15

I told you last time, if I can't kill a bird within that first hour, my anxiety goes through the roof. I'm very anxious. I get really overwhelmed. But you got to think of it too, man, like everybody gets out of the woods, they want to go get breakfast. So you know how many birds I've killed between 9, 30 and noon in my lifetime. Like it's probably just, I'd say, the same amount, maybe more than a bird off the roost.

Speaker 4: 32:40

You know, guys just give up too early and that's not. You know, as the season goes on. Obviously it gets harder, more pressured birds and you know, opening week, you should be able, you know, to get it done within that first hour for sure. But you know, as the season goes on, you know you got to hunt a little harder, a little harder, um, but as far as, like a beginner um, you just got to put your time in and the only way you're gonna learn is boots on the ground. That's it you're. You're not gonna know, you're not gonna have.

Speaker 4: 33:14

You know trial and error. You know getting out at eight o'clock in the morning. You know what I mean. Like you really have to put your time in and experience. You know, oh crap, you know I I hunted till 11 o'clock today, man, like I didn't hear anything. Okay, well, you know what? Maybe that was just that day. I've had times where I've hunted some of my hottest spots and not heard a gobble. The next morning I go in there and it sounds like I'm at a turkey farm. You know what I mean. So it's all you know. You just gotta really really put your time in and just learn and absorb all the information each hunt and see how you can do it better the next time if, if I can add something to what he was.

Speaker 5: 33:57

Kyle was saying there a lot of the times. Like he said guys go to go to breakfast. You know 930, 10 o'clock, you know I got to go get something to eat. I haven't heard anything. I've killed more birds between 930 and 11 o'clock, almost 12 o'clock, and the main reason is they're away from the hens that they've already bred. So they are on the roost with their hens, their harem. They call the hens to the roost at night. That's what the you'll hear a tom, he'll cut, he'll call the hens up to the roost, so they're all roosted together.

Speaker 5: 34:31

Now, if you're new to an area, or maybe you don't know where the birds are roosting which is hard to find sometimes and you don't get set up underneath a roost, that first hour, hour and a half, two hours, they'll talk to you. They're going to gobble, they're going to talk, but they're not going to leave it. Think about it, guys. Right, you're in a bar, okay, you got a hot chick, you're getting places with her. You're really starting to feel like you're doing good and you're going to go walk over and play a game pool with your buddy. Now, you just left her alone. You ain't going to go do that. And the same thing with a Tom, and he's got the real deal next to him. He's not going to go. Oh well, susie's over there, I know that sound. He's going to stay with his hens until he breeds and then they're going to walk around and feed for a little while and then he's wants to look, he wants to breed again. He's starting to recoup.

Speaker 5: 35:19

So that 930 area. Now they're getting away from the hens. Now they're getting curious. Oh, let me go see. I heard her over here. I think she's over here. Let me go see what's going on. And that's what I say Sit tight. Curiosity kills them every time. And you don't even have to really over call Once a bird is hot, like I told you, is reading the temperature.

Speaker 5: 35:39

That's, that's the key, key thing with with any turkey hunt be patient, sit there. It's just like deer hunting. It's deer hunt. The sections of land that I hunt. If you were to push, like you were pushing in the adirondacks or walking around trying to still hunt, you'll push a deer clean out of the country once they get on. Smart to you on doing that, you're not going to get nothing. You got to sit still sometimes, especially during the rut, you don't know where they're going to be. You, you just know they're in that area and the same thing. They're in their rut, turkeys are in their rut.

Speaker 5: 36:06

They're trying to breed as much as they possibly can and this year was a perfect year because early on in April usually a lot of the New York birds they're bred out. So when you go out that first week you got to kill, because the second week they ain ain't talking much. But this year it was cold, it was rainy, it knocked the hens off their nests and they were able to rebreed. So it was a long, drawn out season. I had much success still talking to birds as far as even last weekend. So the weather plays a key factor on how they react and the days that you're out hunting, how your call your sound carries. That plays a key factor also.

Speaker 5: 36:45

But you know that 9, 30, 10 o'clock time, I believe me. There's been mornings. I've slept in man because I was just so tired so I'm not getting up. I don't know where the hell the birds are roosting. I'm just gonna go out run around. When I hear him I'll sit down and call the bird to me because I know he's gonna get away from his hands. So that's it. That's a good trick, man, you can. You can always get a bird to respond. You know that mid-morning and you're going to have a better percentage rate of getting that bird to you yeah yeah you got to understand too.

Speaker 4: 37:14

Like it's like the off season, like really like watch videos and do your research on like and I've said this before again like why turkeys do what they do. And if you learn the, the things that turkeys do in the springtime, you'll understand. You know she goes to him. That's, that's one of the biggest things that I don't think a lot of new hunters understand. They think like oh, I'm gonna call this tom in bull, that that tom is with a hen, he's not coming in, she's gonna come in and he's gonna be there with her.

Speaker 4: 37:53

But you gotta understand, like, why a hen does what she does. Why does she call the way she calls? What is her job during turkey season? Like, what, what does she do? And if you understand that and you can communicate with her, you'll have more success than you've ever imagined. Because that if you can master talking to a hen and put a hen in your lap I'm not saying that there's a tom with every hen, I am not saying that at all. I've called in multiple hens by themselves but if you can master the art of communicating with a hen, your success rate will skyrocket through the roof, without a doubt very cool, yeah, no, it's something that is gonna, you know, already talked about.

Speaker 2: 38:44

It's kind of getting more comfortable and you know, calling two hens, you know, and that's something I've heard a lot this season is like, you know, you really want to be calling to the hens and not calling to the to the toms. You, you want to call the hens, you know, um. And then another thing was you know something that we've already talked about, but yet again I want to talk about it because it was so useful once. You know, kyle said it on. The first one was scratching. You know, I actually never had heard of scratching before and I don't, I don't know really why, even on the videos, like, and everything like that, like a lot of it is just all you know. You need to learn how to Yelp, cut per like, do all these types of things, but scratching was never that one that, like anyone I've heard at least mentioned, and I think that was the first time um was this year was was hearing kyle talk about scratching and I think what a game changer I think it really was for for a lot of people. I don't know how many people had already knew about that, but after that, like even pain said like peyton was using it and it worked for him. You know, and you just started hearing more people talk about scratching and everything like that. Now I don't know if my phone was listening to me, but I looked up a turkey video the other day and the guy was talking about scratching. It's like wow, all the years before that, like I've never heard it. And then now, all of a sudden, I found a youtube video where the guy was talking about, you know, calling but also integrating that, that scratching as well. Or just like kyle said, though, it's just scratching, don't even call, just scratch and it and it worked. You know pretty damn what like, absolutely like amazing. And you know something that you wouldn't, you wouldn't think of.

Speaker 2: 40:23

Because, yet again, when you're first getting into as a new hunter, you're like, oh, you're supposed to be quiet and just call and just like, sit in a ground blind and have decoys out in front of you well, guess what that's really? And I have to agree like I kind of like the mobile setup and just run and gun, like, yeah, sometimes you do need to sit there, but, um, being mobile, I think, for for turkey, hunting reminds me a lot of, just like deer hunting, and that's why just mobile and just all type of hunting is just I think it's just a funner, funner way to do it as as well, like you can't kind of like restless when you're just sitting there. Even I did, like there's there's this one spot where we knew these birds were going to be in field, so we didn't really have to go anywhere, and it's like just the waiting game was just like I want to hit my head on the wall, like I. I just like I'm used to, you know, walking all these, these miles now and now we're just, we're just sitting there and also not even in a tree. I wish I was at least in tree so like I got that great view and everything like that.

Speaker 2: 41:23

I'm just sitting on the ground, just getting a little too comfortable, I think, with myself and, you know, forgetting that I am sometimes hunting. But, um, great, a great experience all around, which I'll definitely dive into more uh, with payton on the, the wrap-up, uh, which I think we're going to be doing on instagram live, actually, so we're going to record on instagram live and then also drop it on the podcast. So, um, guys, and any anything else that you guys want to talk about. I don't want to keep get this one too long. Uh, we're. I'm already not really be able to see kai. I can barely see kyle right now. There he is.

Speaker 4: 41:58

He's gone again, you would think kyle's black, no, but um, squash I I ended up, um, all four birds I killed this year. Uh, I was just purring and scratching and I brought that up last time. Like, yeah, you know, as you know, when you go in the woods, like new york, like what do you hear? Like you normally hear guys yelping, you guys, you know box call diaphragm, like that, like you just hear, like you're normally up.

Speaker 4: 42:31

So I was telling these guys like listen, like you got to think outside the box man, like not, like you know the deer hunter that hunts, you know, 40 yards off the road on 100 pounds of corn. It's not like that, like you got to do something. That's different. But you need to bring the realism into it. Like I said, you do your research and you learn how hens are and how turkeys act. They scratch the leaves. So every bird that I killed this year they were coming in but just like you know your normal fucking bird, 60 yards, 70 yards, they're hanging up. And I literally sat there and every bird just purred, scratched the leaves, scratched the leaves hung out, hang out, scratch the leaves. Purred a little more, scratch the leaves off soft.

Speaker 4: 43:19

Yep, then that was it I. That's how I killed all my birdfish here and, like I said, that's something else that you know. Your, your veteran turkey hunter, knows that, but a lot of these new guys don't, and I think that's a key thing that will you know. Another tool under their belt that will help them have more success is you know it's going to be hard, obviously for hunting on a field or something like that, obviously. But if you're hunting the timber man, like if you can just even if you're not that good with a diaphragm, if you can just make a soft yelp because perching is kind of hard for a lot of people and you just scratch the leaves, you're setting yourself apart from, I would say, 80% of the other turkey hunters in the woods.

Speaker 5: 44:08

To hit on a note with that, not to cut you off, but you're exactly right, because birds of turkeys hens like that, they're birds of predators are after them all the time. They're not making a big stink when they move through the woods. They sound like an army because they constantly kick leaves. The leaf sound is a secure sound to other toms and other birds around them because they associate it with the flock moving through the woods like normal. And you're right on the money with the light purrs. And when I called frank's bird in for him, I broke like three sticks just trying to get the leaves, this down and the damn bird, the damn bird was gobbling back just for me, kicking the leaves. I didn't even call and frank's like I can't, he goes. Dude, I don't know how the hell he goes you just I said look for me a seasoned veteran. I'm 49 years old. I've been hunting turkeys since when they came into this area. I was about 19 or 20, okay, it's a lot of years and I'm pulling every freaking trick out of the book to get this guy a bird. And the bird's going past us, the bird's walking in a circle and I'm like all right, I'm not saying I'm taking the stick. I'm going with the stick and I'm trying to make it sound like a flock of birds there and I'm, you know, I'll even you know another. Another thing too to tell guys is don't forget, you can take your hat, you can. You know that's what they do. They walk around it was, they flap themselves out, make natural sounds. You know, a lot of the stuff I learned is in the fall I'll be out bow hunting and that's when the flocks are really close and you'll actually have two harems of flocks fight. It's. It's if you've ever heard that. It's like nothing you've never heard. You've ever heard that. It's like nothing you've never heard and it's insane. Learn, yeah, you can learn so much just by being quiet in the woods and listening to what these animals do. And if you listen to and I and I showed frank this I'm going to give you guys a little secret.

Speaker 5: 46:08

All right, the cadence of the call of the hen when they're on their own and they're looking for the rest of the hen, when they're on their own and they're looking for the rest of the flock. It's a click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click and it's very subtle, it's not real loud, but it's just that click, click, click, click and she's looking, she's looking. So if you got a tom that's tight-lipped and you start doing that, he says, oh, she's lost, I'll call her over to me. Okay, so you can do that. But it's the cadence of the call. It's not what it sounds like, it's the repetitive, the pattern that you're doing.

Speaker 5: 46:45

And if you listen to a hen, I watched a hen do that one time and I said what the hell is she doing? She got separated from the rest of the flock and it was because a coyote had ran in and she was trying to get back with her flock and I said, boy, that's I like that. I'm going to try that next time. And I had a bird, you know, years ago. Hang up, I just did that cadence like that and I showed Frank that. I said you know, that's that's one thing right there That'll outsmart them every time, because they think it's a hen trying to get back to the flock and the that purr, that you know that little, that little slight things, and just stretching the leaves, that's all they're doing, they're just they're. It's like they got Tourette's. They just walk around the woods going, saying something you know, but it's real light, they don't get all crazy. But there are times when you gotta go at a bird aggressive and it's. It's the stubbornness of that, tom, is the only way I can explain it, but it's again. You got to read the temperature to bird. You don't want to do it and, and you know, it goes a lot in hand in hand with predator hunting.

Speaker 5: 47:50

When I start out a predator set, I don't blast that call off. I put that thing on like four, four. Yeah, you know, I just you know you can barely hear it with your ears. But then them critters out there, man, they got ears better than you and me put together and you don't have to go loud. And if an animal's close by and you blast that call, see you, they know what. They'll know. It's fake, you know. And then there's a. There's a time when you don't have nothing. Come in right away. You start turning the volume up and I fluctuate the volume. You know when you call you don't sit there with it on. You make it sound like an animal, it's breathing. And the same thing with turkey calls. I explained it to Frank. Most guys pop, pop, pop, pop pop. No, it's pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop pop. You know you're bringing it up and down, up and down. The animal's breathing in and it's breathing air out. Make it sound realistic.

Speaker 2: 48:42

So that's what you want to do with the turkey claw and stuff. Definitely, definitely, guys, I think that's going to wrap it up for part one. I mean good, great information. Yet again, I mean Squatch. It's always a pleasure, your storytelling. I'm telling you we're're gonna have to give you your own segment, like we're definitely gonna have to give you, uh, your own segment, because you just love to carry the conversation, which always makes my life so much easier, so I always appreciate I do love the storytelling.

Speaker 2: 49:12

Um, kyle, as usual, it's a pleasure getting you on. Um, you know, frank, you're on all the time, so you know I'll see you on on the next one, but you know everyone out there. Uh, if you haven't already gotten to turkey hunting I I now talking to somebody who has that itch I highly recommend it. You know, it was just a absolute blast. And if you're going to and if you're interested in listening to Peyton and I talk, jump on the Instagram live. It's going to be on Monday, on Monday. If not, you can catch the episode when it, when it drops as well.

Speaker 2: 49:52

But man, I truly I kind of feel like I like a kid again, because I, you know, with deer hunting now, it's everything's so like calculated and it's like all right, I know what I'm doing, I'm, this is what I need to do, yada, yada, yada. This was like I'm a baby all over again and it was like I just went out there and, like kyle said, like boots on the ground, and that's how I, you know, obviously, I've had a lot of help throughout the years and, you know, doing this segment alone has taught me a lot, because I get to hear Kyle, I got to hear Justin, you know now with Peyton and you know with Squatch and all these guys come on and talk turkeys. I would hope I picked up something the last four years doing this segment. I'd hope I picked up something the last four years doing this segment and it really did. I will say it really did come together this year where it was like just that one more step and I am, I'm literally there, but you know, work on the calling more.

Speaker 2: 50:49

You know, I'm just really excited. But you know what? It's deer season and I'm going to be like a little kid yet again in the baby store, probably come starting tomorrow. You know June 1st, so I think we're going to be like almost three months away. So, um, I'm definitely excited about that. But, guys, I appreciate it. Um, everyone, I hope you guys enjoy this episode and we'll see you guys next time. Thank you.