Funnelling People to Your Photography on Socials with Anwar Abdul-Qawi

Anwar Abdul-Qawi (@_anwaraq), is a dedicated conservation educator with a background in Zoology and Biology known for his work at the Philadelphia Zoo and the Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University. He combines his passion for wildlife conservation with captivating photography  in an effort to connect the public to the importance of nature preservation.

Expect to learn how you can creatively funnel a larger audience to your online photography on socials by leveraging other things that you've worked hard at, whether its using your comedy skills, physique, tutorial skills, etc. In this episode you'll become motivated to be more than just a photographer.

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@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
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Transcript

INTRO:

00:00.68
smacey
We're live welcome back to another episode of the photographer mindset podcast I'm your co-host seth macey today we had on Anwar Abdul call we and this was a lovely interview wasn't it.

00:03.13
aaronmannes
And I'm your co-host Aaron Mannes.

00:11.47
aaronmannes
It was awesome. Ah was such a cool guy very well spoken dug into ah a lot of things, especially what comes through I think is his love for animals in wildlife.

00:21.10
smacey
Yeah, first podcast too. We love doing that. We love when we um, christen people with their first podcast appearance appearance people who are doing really cool stuff in the photography community. What should some ah people listen now for in this episode in your opinion. What did you get away would you take away from it.

00:35.26
aaronmannes
Well I loved his attitude on just having some fun with with all of it if you look at his page.. There's obviously skill there. There's some great photos of wildlife. Really amazing details in the eyes. We. We talk about ah but he's okay, having fun. With who he is showing off who he is. He's got a great physique I'm not going to sugarco it. It must be easy when you're 29 Ah, that's ah, that's a nod to him complaining about getting older while I'm sitting here looking at him. Ah you know, but ah.

01:00.70
smacey
Um.

01:11.25
aaronmannes
Yeah, you know it's part of his package as part of his um sort of his brand if you will and it brings in yeah, it brings in attention. That's how he uses it. It talks it brings it down to his his love of wildlife eventually he gets there. So yeah I think that was that um, he's very well spoken.

01:14.66
smacey
The funnel right.

01:23.36
smacey
Are.

01:31.20
aaronmannes
Is obviously passion Really you know shines through.

01:34.20
smacey
Yeah I think that we we talked a lot about funnels. How to creatively get people to your page to eventually see your photography and there's so many ways to do that. You can be funny. You can you know be in great shape and and highlight that there's lots of you know we talk about this on the show like how can you. Get people. There's tons of people taking great photos of yours. But how can you get people to your page if that's something you care about I think we really touched on that in this episode so without further ado let's get into our episode with anwwar sorry so without further ado let's get into our episode with Anwar. But First. Ah message from our sponsor all right today's episode is sponsored by Tam Ron Americas and Aaron you have your eye on a lens that you want.

02:21.92
aaronmannes
I so do it is ah it is no secret that especially for our Alaska trip I would love to be able to try out the 35 to 51

02:32.53
smacey
Um, yeah.

02:34.59
aaronmannes
They have that that right? Yeah ah f 2 to 2.8 from 35 to 51 that's that's Insane. insane

02:40.77
smacey
And I think it's f two up to I think around one hundred millimeter which is pretty incredible. Yeah, and when I was at the Sedona summit for tammaron creators. They asked. What's your what's the. Ah, what's everyone's favorite lens through using all the tamon ambassadors and everyone. Said the 30 or the the 35 to one fifty and I was like ah I don't have that one so I'm gonna have to add that to my ah to my arsenal I got the 28 to 75 the the 50 to 400 which is really cool I don't know if I told you the 50 to four hundred between fifty and seventy it sort of acts as a macro so I was doing a lot of like filming icicles this past winter.

03:13.46
aaronmannes
Um, ah, interesting.

03:16.52
smacey
Among some other things and then the one fifty two five hundred millimeter for for Sony mirrorless bodies. So if you're looking for um, great greatly priced lenses I think the value to performance is you know you're not going to get beat that with the tammaron lens. Um, you know consider consider tamaron lens they they perform really well I've been liking them. And you can visit their website ww wwww dot tamronmericas dot com or you can head to your nearest photo retailer to check out some of their lenses. They have sales that happen frequently. They'll probably have 1 for mother's day we'll have more information on that when that comes out but thanks for sponsoring this episode now.

INTERVIEW:

00:27.78
smacey
How are you? you look good. You look good. You said it's hot where you are so the attire is is reasonable.

00:33.91
Anwar
I'm all right? Thank you for having me I'm doing pretty good. Thank you, Thank you? I'm trying you know.

00:41.80
Anwar
Yeah, it's about seventy seventy five we're finally getting that get old spring weather I've been waiting on it to yeah.

00:47.36
smacey
Good thank goodness. Ah, it's been. It's been a long cold winter I don't know what it's like there in Philadelphia but.

00:53.70
Anwar
It's on and off like seventy fifty s 4070 so it's been frustrating for photography birding all because I hate I hate the cold. So yeah I've seen your picture I'm like I'm my I don't know how you guys.

00:59.89
smacey
Right? right? I thrive in it I love it if you haven't caught on the accent here. Ah, so man you have a degree in Zookeeper Like Zoology what's it What's that like I I don't know anyone who's ah who has a degree in that and um, you spent some time working in zoos as an educator and a zookeeper is that correct.

01:17.37
Anwar
Yeah, yeah, so so yeah, so ah I've always had a passion and love for wildlife. So ever since I was a kid I grew up watching like Nat Geo Animal planet Steve Varen you know the usual and I knew from the gecko I was like.

01:28.17
smacey
Right.

01:34.61
Anwar
Want to be a zoologist and I think people kind of people get it mixed up a little bit so zoology is more so like the study of like animals and their habitat in the wild and for people who want zookeeping that's more zoo science. So I was never really into zoo science I didn't I didn't want to be an animal keeper. I wanted to be someone who went out into the rain forests and like studied animals and the trees and stuff like that. So I went to school for zoology in a doylesstown p at Dell Valley University um got my bachelors there and ah. Yeah, basically after after graduation I got a part-time. Position. We're at the Philadelphia Zoo learn how to do some public speaking learn how to educate at the same time I was balancing a job right now at the academy of natural sciences. So I was kind of doing two part time. Jobs. Ah, the zoo is more so for like public education. So how to like talk to the public how to navigate just get better at talking and ah the academy was more so for my animal handling. So I'm actually in a room now full of different animals that I work with so like snakes spiders stuff like that I did that for quite some time and then just so recently you know.

02:25.10
smacey
Um, right.

02:43.70
Anwar
I Got a full time position. So I'm actually the manager of my department. So yeah, thank you appreciate that.

02:46.23
smacey
Oh congratulations. That's really awesome. Um, so you're you're clearly somebody who cares about wild animals and conservation. Um, this is a bit of a touchy subject but I just kind of want I wanted to ask you this right off the bat.

02:58.30
Anwar
Um, yeah, okay.

03:00.49
smacey
I'm gonna do my best not to shy away from it despite how polarized some people may be on this subject but in your opinion what role do Zoos play in wildlife conservation. You know some people are of the mind that they're cruel and animals shouldn't be in cages others have the opinion that they're a great method to expose people to the natural world.

03:09.73
Anwar
Um, a.

03:18.65
smacey
On ah on a first first person basis and I'm sure some people may have those two spectrums coincide in a blend of emotions. What do you think? just right off the bat with a kind of hot topic. Yeah sure.

03:25.44
Anwar
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I might actually start with a little story. So ah.

03:26.90
aaronmannes
Um.

03:28.66
aaronmannes
Hot topic.

03:33.71
Anwar
During my ah I did some traveling recently I recently got back from Bruso Italy did some wallet photography there and we had a chance to actually meet with ah one of the people who work in like a conservation like animal park basically and the whole talk was about like animals and education and how we can.

03:46.20
smacey
Okay.

03:52.21
Anwar
Preserve the natural environment and stop poachers and they brought up the topic of zoos and everyone in my group from around the world. We had someone from like Russia someone from Belgium people from all over the world for this workshop that I joined and they were like yeah we hate zoos or like now zoos are bad this and that and someone who has a zoo background I was kind of just sitting there like. You know do I do I you know engage in this conversation or just let you know I was like you know there's a time and a place for everything so I just let it just you know I let it go but um I get it all the time like I I get it I think it definitely depends on the zoo. It's really hard.

04:11.10
smacey
Right.

04:25.92
Anwar
But Zoos do actually play a huge role in conservation but I can't tell you the many times during my zoo years I would hear you know I wish that Tiger was out in the wild or that polar bear should be out in the wild I'm like yes in a perfect world I want all these animals to be out and not behind you know a glass or behind you know metal bars but we don't live in a perfect world. Unfortunately.

04:42.75
smacey
Right.

04:44.89
Anwar
You know you go out to these different countries and unfortunately you know poaching is a real thing. Deforestation is a real Thing. Pollution is a real Thing. So I think people kind of see these animals behind you know glass and they get really emotional and it's you know it's valid. It's fair, but they don't really. See the full picture of a picture of what's actually happening out in the wild like these animals are living their best life here behind the scenes and there's actually a lot of research behind the scenes you don't see for conservation like research different breeding stuff like that. Bringing populations back from almost extinction. So There's a lot that people don't really see and they kind of just judge it based off of their you know emotions but they were to do research or go out and like look like out of these animals are having a really rough time out in the wild.

05:20.51
smacey
Great.

05:26.48
smacey
Right Is there is there a way to for the public to queue in on which zoos to support and whatnot I Know that's a difficult question but are there signs.

05:28.75
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

05:35.19
Anwar
Yeah, yeah, it's for the most part I can only speak for the zoos that I've worked with so here we call like Az Affiliated Zoo. So a lot of zoos like like bigger. Um I guess Zoos that have a lot of like licensing and policies behind them. Um, it gets kind of touchy when I guess you go to Other. Parts of the world because the word zoo is loosely used and I guess view of a zoo is like animals behind a cage or you know a glass and it's more for entertainment where I think here more so in the states. Also I said my experience. It's more so from an education perspective a conservations perspective I think.

06:07.35
smacey
Right? yeah.

06:09.60
Anwar
You have definitely moved away from that circus like vibe. Ah in the states and they're more so focusing on conservation education but I know in certain parts of the world. They are still kind of having that like oh look elephant in a thing was point to look at it or like Tiger photo ops. You know.

06:28.60
Anwar
So I think it depends on the zoo and I think that's where it gets really really, really messy is also a bit linked to I'm not sure I'm sure you've seen them all over Instagram but the pay to pet services as well and it's like probably the biggest battle I've kind of had where I had people reach out and I like yeah I saw this guy you know. Posing with tigers or I saw this guy holding monkeys and stuff like that is that what you do at your job and I'm like no like that's not actually a real educat. That's not real conservation like you go to actual like rehab places for animals and they're not playing with Baby Tigers they're not like Russell Monkeys that's not you know like they have no idea that people pay money to hang out with like tigers and. And like chimps and stuff and then they get old and then then what happens to these animals behind the scenes like we've all seen Tiger King and people it's really hard to like and that's issue is that that's exciting and unfortunately excitement brings in a lot of money and it brings in a lot of people and when you show the reality of the world. It may not be as clamorous as exciting people are like yeah.

07:08.59
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, um.

07:09.67
smacey
Um, yeah, we have.

07:23.48
Anwar
That's kind of boring I like the the more shock values aspect of you know this world versus you know reality I Guess so yeah.

07:29.75
smacey
Right? right? So a couple questions too. Ah when you you mentioned that you did some courses on public speaking or they trained you on how to be Ah, ah you know a better speaker. You're clearly very wellpoken. Ah.

07:43.86
Anwar
Ah, thank you.

07:45.47
smacey
What were you trained in. How did I know for myself I'm very interested in becoming a better speaker daily and I mean I have the privilege of working on that skill weekly with these kinds of episodes knowing that people are going to listen and trying your best to properly articulate thoughts and questions.

07:49.82
Anwar
Minute.

07:58.79
Anwar
Um, yeah, um.

08:02.56
smacey
What was kind of helpful in making you a better speaker and allowing you to properly communicate what you're trying to say especially to people that you're trying to educate.

08:13.21
Anwar
That's a great question. Yeah, um so I believe it or not I grew up pretty shy like I even now like I'm a lot more I'm still introverted at heart. But I grew up pretty shy I wouldn't really talk too much and I actually. During my high school years I had a really bad speech impediment at a stutter I still have it now to this day So I kind of got bullied for that. A lot of my time during my high school year where I really couldn't announce see a lot of words or I will stumble and you know I got picked on a lot for it. So I wouldn't really talk.

08:42.30
smacey
Are right.

08:43.78
Anwar
And of course being in this field you kind of have to be able to educate and kind of be able to open your mouth so I was like you know I'm going to kind of fight past that. So during my time at the Philadelphia Zoo a lot of it was just you know being out being comfortable out of its confidence is a confidence as well. I find that. If you really know what you're talking about it kind of makes the conversation flow I know a lot about animals that's like my thing if you put me in a room and say hey talk about dinosaurs or talk about fossils I'm like look and we are dinosaur museum where we have a fossils as well and I'm like I know my limits but.

09:10.48
smacey
Is.

09:10.55
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

09:17.56
Anwar
You put me in a room and you say hey talk about a ball Python I talk about you know photography I can talk So I think number one is just being confident in what you're talking about. Um I'm still working on public speaking every day like my issue is that I still have a stutter and I talk pretty fast when I get really excited about things. So it's. To mentally tell myself wait a minute like I got to slow down relax. You know I know you're super excited about this but and I can kind of tell if I'm like doing public speaking things on stage. The people may like look at me and I'm like oh I'm talking pretty fast and be kind of like you know So I think it's catching yourself realizing where you're at.

09:50.78
aaronmannes
Are.

09:53.80
Anwar
Taking a breath pacing yourself and just kind of just now going through it when it comes to education as well. I my personality I'm very I get really excited about a lot of things and people have told me that my charisma and my my love and passion for these things rubs off on people.

09:56.86
smacey
Um, right bright.

10:11.75
Anwar
And many guests have told me that I've been stopped in the middle of the street saying hey you you taught my kid about owls that one day I'm like I have no idea who you are I don't remember you but like I really appreciate that and they kind of remember the fact that like you're if you're really charismatic and really passionate and truthful about something it shows. You can't really, you can't really fake. It. You know people may try but people may put on like an act or a front This is like generally who I am because I actually do care about what I'm talking about and when I get excited about it people see and they're like Wow this guy really does care about this cockroach. This guy really does care about this tarantula and it kind of like you know it's It's contagious and and your kids get involved.

10:29.23
smacey
Um, right.

10:42.87
aaronmannes
Are.

10:45.57
smacey
Right.

10:48.97
Anwar
And we're in a public space where majority of our audiences are younger people. It's challenging like I had a conversation with some of my team before the kids attention span is dropping. It's getting really really really hard to keep people invested like with Tiktok like it's. Ah, got to the point I'm sure you seen it we like Tik to videos now have 2 videos playing on top of each other like the tiktoks but you haven't seen that? Yeah yeah, okay.

11:09.11
smacey
What I I do not have tikok on my phone I don't know if people know this because I I would not be able to help myself and no offense people. Love Tiktok I Just know myself and my brain would turn to.

11:11.75
aaronmannes
I have asking that.

11:25.87
Anwar
Um I agree I agree I kind of stay far away from as possible. We go on there. There's like you know the video playing and there's like another video of like ah a car going flips. It's just to keep people focused on what's happening.

11:27.30
smacey
Mush.

11:35.70
smacey
Wow.

11:39.77
Anwar
So in the world ah of education. It's getting really hard to keep kids invested because their attention span is apparently someone said like a research study is like 7 seconds like they just don't yeah, it's it's getting really really and I think a lot is due to of course social media but also like ah the pandemic like we call them covid kids.

11:43.60
aaronmannes
You.

11:49.51
smacey
Um, less than a goldfish.

11:58.89
aaronmannes
Um.

11:58.92
Anwar
And we I can we we have a huge. There's a huge difference between the kids that we taught before the pandemic and after like the kids prior were already. You know, not not really focused but now spending most of their life behind a laptop or doing Zoom calls 24 7 their attention span their connection to like human activity.

12:05.31
smacey
Um, right.

12:18.37
Anwar
It's rough. So we're trying to find new ways every day to like interact and like you know make things exciting and special. But it's it's getting harder and harder every day. Oh yeah.

12:19.10
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

12:27.16
aaronmannes
And or I'm in a I'm in a school I'm a school counselor for middle school kids. So Ah yes, the the the Covid age I Really think I mean this social media in terms of the kids going through now and how much they're dependent on it and dependent on checking their phone and the notifications. Just held the kid' phone for a field trip I was there for 4 hours. It was nonstop buzzing in my pocket with just nonstop and it it was just very telling of like God like this is this is the the pull like everything's pulling at them every every minute. Ah, and.

12:47.55
Anwar
Um, oh my god.

12:58.76
Anwar
E.

13:04.57
aaronmannes
I Mean not to be dramatic. But I I honestly think phones and social media is the new like hardcore drug like it'll it'll take ah a good percent of you guys are down really down. Maybe some of you can handle it and and withs stain or use it in moderation. But there's going to be a big handful of you that just get taken down by it.

13:09.18
Anwar
Um, yeah, you know.

13:24.57
aaronmannes
And can't get past that that social interaction. Um, how to deal with patients how to deal with waiting perseverance working at anything putting in time versus that instant gratification or just using the phone to get all those things that you need. Or feel like you need, um, it's It's crazy for sure.

13:42.16
smacey
Well Aaron if I mean you're you're a dad are you worried for your your son like what's the what's the I don't want to go too far into this topic because we have tons of things to get tode with anw or but I mean what? so.

13:42.32
Anwar
Yeah, it's yeah.

13:49.24
aaronmannes
Um.

13:59.11
smacey
How does this play out I mean what's what's your strategy with your son.

14:03.19
aaronmannes
I Think wait as long as you possibly can. There's this. There's this fear within parents my kid needs a phone in middle school like that they will say that I need to be able to contact my kid at all times what if there's a a school shooting God Forbid something like that. Um.

14:20.22
aaronmannes
I just feel like it's a fear-based thing that everyone has a cell phone. Everyone has a phone and if there is a tragedy in the school. You're you're probably not dialing up phone calls at the moment you were trying to survive like you'll figure it out eventually. But there's this There's this feel like I need to be tethered at all times. It's attachment. That's part of it. So these phones get out much earlier than they used to There's a peer pressure to it. My best friend got a smartphone why can't I and the parents fall into that sort of thing it happens all the time when I was a kid it was Nintendo which was majorly innocent compared to what there is today but like that was the thing.

14:51.96
Anwar
Can hit.

14:59.19
aaronmannes
Like all those kids got mario yiki and I and eventually my parents cave whatever it may be actually my aunt and Uncle Caved it wasn't my parents. Um and they were pissed about it but nonetheless I got mario ah I think waiting and understanding.

15:06.32
smacey
Um.

15:14.70
aaronmannes
I think it's such a new I'm going to call it a drug. It's such a new drug that the research isn't really out that it's conclusive that mental health has tanked since 2012 like absolutely tanked. Ah, there's all this research that has brought up that.

15:28.99
Anwar
Um.

15:33.44
aaronmannes
The younger you are the more serious insecurities. Ah um, just struggles in terms of life mental health mental illness those sorts of things. Um it. It is all connected and you see it on a day-to-day basis. Ah i've. Worked for 16 years in a school and there's a massive difference between the kids that back sixteen years ago and their use with social media was very minimal compared to now kids have grown up. They see things on Tiktok. Oh. It's it's hit your teacher in the in the ass day.

15:54.87
Anwar
Um.

16:09.60
aaronmannes
But everyone do that. That's what's trending destroy something in the bathroom I'm not even kidding with like these are the things that kids see and then go do let alone the provocative like music. Um you know content drug use sexual Innuendo like all that stuff that kids just can see ccccc.

16:12.14
Anwar
Yeah, and I believe yeah yeah.

16:13.66
smacey
Um, yeah I know.

16:21.18
Anwar
Here.

16:28.96
aaronmannes
Versus you know, not too long ago. It was it was far and few between where you would like see stuff like that on Tv or or whatever it may be or on the internet like looking things at now it's just in your face all the time. So I just feel like let alone screen time. Let let alone using that time not to be practicing a skill and art a music. Ah.

16:38.34
smacey
Um, right.

16:48.68
aaronmannes
Ah, sport, whatever it is. It's just a colossal time suck and I think that really will show and rear its ugly head in ten to fifteen years when these 12 to thirteen year olds are mid twenty s and trying to hold down. Any sort of job that requires social interaction that requires disappointment that requires perseverance that requires a little bit of patience. So I just think it's like it's this ticking time. Bomb where you know and maybe I'm being an old boomer and things are all just going to change that way.

17:24.24
smacey
We need a boomer sound Effect Boomer Okay boomer.

17:26.29
aaronmannes
But I but I just I just feel there's there's standards to being a human that this is chipping away at ah, ah put that abo on it there.

17:28.87
Anwar
Ah.

17:34.90
smacey
Right? Bo on that. What's your relationship with so with with social media anmoir for yourself Like how do you find yourself getting sucked into it. Do you pull yourself out because I mean it plays an important. Well this is up for debate. Most people say it plays an important role as a photographer social media others say no.

17:39.33
Anwar
Um, that's very real.

17:50.18
Anwar
A.

17:53.38
smacey
But the majority say yes I mean what's your relationship with your phone. Okay.

17:55.28
Anwar
Oh man I've I've gotten way better like it's it's very important I would say like without Instagram I'm not gonna sit here and lie like without Instagram I wouldn't have a lot of the success that I have now. So I I owe it to insta that for my success for the most part. Um, but I detach myself I'm really good with that I don't like really being on my phone too much I try to like be outdoors I try to just put my phone away and go to the gym like I'm a really active person. So I don't really like being on my phone too much and I'll find myself like if I go to like the bathroom or something I'm like looking at tik to I might wait. Like 20 minutes is going. Oh what am I doing like so I'll catch myself like it's it's easy like it's like you said it's a drug like you don't realize that you're sitting there. You're like watching a video and and the algorithm is so it's so nasty. It's so good because it knows what you like you're scrolling like cat videos here's another one. There's another one the next you notes.

18:33.66
aaronmannes
Are.

18:34.42
smacey
Right.

18:43.32
smacey
Hey you have no chance.

18:51.51
Anwar
And hours passed I'm like wow I did nothing with my time a watch so I'm really cautious I'll like dock my art we do like 5 minutes all right tik thought we're done because I know if if I don't stop at due time flies and I know as an adult.

19:01.58
aaronmannes
Are.

19:05.47
Anwar
Can have that self-control like you said, not there go back to this topic but kids don't have that self-control so they're gonna be sitting there just swiping and swipeping and swipe and and making videos and swiping and swiping so I'm really good at pacing myself and for Instagram um I just use it as a tool to just reach out to other photographers like myself just see what's.

19:10.18
smacey
Um, right.

19:25.54
Anwar
Trending see other ways I can kind of fight the algorithm and grow and all that stuff it's It's a double as sword I Love Instagram but I also hate it as you I'm sure you know what the whole issue of just like the reals and reals and reals and it's I know the whole thing but it's it's ah gets very frustrating trying to you know.

19:31.52
smacey
There.

19:31.76
aaronmannes
Yeah.

19:38.81
smacey
He a.

19:44.79
Anwar
Think someone said it best really you spendt all this time and money and effortfro on your gear you learn the skill set you go out into the field for hours and hours you get an amazing shot of this animal or you side about it and you post it and get like 2 likes you know I'm sure everyone can kind of relate to that frustration and it's like people may say well I don't matter I'm like but they do like it's it's one those things where. You kind of want that gratification of your hard work people. You want people to see the effort you put in we all you know you don't have the lie like we all, it's it's okay to admit that we want that kind of satisfaction and people seeing our work and saying that's a good job. Good photo. That's it you know I might saying I want money I'm not saying I want but like that simple.

20:19.70
smacey
Um, right.

20:23.40
Anwar
Is a good picture. Keep it to go work. That's all I need. That's all I want and if I have to do all these skits and videos and all these hoops and file and post at this time use this hash to like all these hoops and ladders I'm like all this just for an app that's about pictures like why are you guys making it so hard for something that shouldn't be this difficult. You know so. I I'm very frustrated with you know, instead. It's a whole thing but ah it is what it is I feel like just ranting about it doesn't really do much and I kind of had that take at first I was just like you know why are we doing reals I Hate this I hate this and then I'm like yo me complaining about it's not going to ever change the adapt or die.

20:47.41
aaronmannes
Yeah.

20:49.48
smacey
No yeah.

20:59.93
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

21:01.32
Anwar
And I adapt and and that's how I blew up I'd started making reals and I was just like I you know so I'm really good at self-control. But yeah.

21:01.52
smacey
Um, right.

21:06.10
smacey
Um, right? Yeah I mean the other what we frequently try to remind and train people on on this show is of course of course we want not 2 lakes right? I mean 2 200 likes to say a good job. You know this is a great photo is is definitely.

21:17.87
Anwar
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

21:25.89
smacey
You know it feels good I think what we really try to do on this show as well though is to train people and this is so so hard to do but to find reward in the doing right? like find reward in I posted 300 photos this year you know and let the quality take care of itself.

21:33.20
Anwar
E.

21:40.97
Anwar
Um, yeah, yes.

21:44.92
smacey
Like you're going to get better in that time frame. You're going to learn and maybe those numbers are a secondary benefit. They also feel good. Um I Want to go back a bit when you were saying you know you know a lot about.

21:48.15
Anwar
Um.

21:54.30
Anwar
Um, in it.

21:59.80
smacey
Wild animals. But for example, you didn't know when when a kid asks you about fossils or dinosaurs. What's your response when you don't know something I think a lot of us can have the tendency when we're asked something We don't know we feel like oh God I gotta give an answer these people think I'm really credible and that I'm they're looking up to me.

22:10.94
Anwar
Um, and.

22:17.65
smacey
To to know what I'm talking about even though I don't necessarily know know what I'm talking about in this nuanced in this nuanced topic. So there's ah, there's an urge to give something as opposed to you know what? I don't know I don't know.

22:21.91
Anwar
Um.

22:23.99
Anwar
Me.

22:33.21
smacey
I Mean what's what's what's your response when you absolutely don't know something.

22:33.22
Anwar
Um, yeah, that's exact. No you nailed it. That's exactly that. So as a manager I tell my team and there's no, there's no shame in just not knowing something whenever I do my shows on stage and I'm answering the questions and someone gets me with a question that I don't know I'm I'm like.

22:35.88
aaronmannes
I Don't know.

22:50.29
Anwar
I'm actually more happy I'm like you got me I'm like hey like I'm stumped I don't I'm upfront I'm like hey I don't know the answer to this so we can review it after after the show like we can like yeah we'll Google it together. But I don't know the answer and I admit that like you know I'm upfront I'm honest about I'm not going to lie and people tend to actually.

23:00.91
smacey
Um, right.

23:07.58
Anwar
Like that when you're upfront when you're on it because it kind of shows that you're you're real. You're genuine and you don't have this ego that like you have to be this center of knowledge and stuff and even kids are like why are you so smart I'm like look kid like there are so many like I'm terrible Atm at.

23:14.61
smacey
Um, right.

23:22.47
Anwar
Like I'll tell everyone that I can't measure I can't do a lot of things when it comes to numbers I hate them So you know I I am open to you know my weaknesses and my flaws and stuff like that. So I tell everyone and also as an education perspective. We don't want to get into that. No that that flow of just.

23:34.11
smacey
Um, right.

23:40.40
Anwar
Lying or just saying things for the sake of saying that's very dangerous. We have enough that in the world If you don't know something just be upfront and say I know that's time like you got me. It's a great question I have no idea and I tell all my team that like look no shame be honest, like you said I don't know.

23:48.34
smacey
Um, yeah.

23:55.43
smacey
It's funny. You say that because for me personally when I ask a question to someone I look up to and I think I've said this on the show before when somebody says says you know what I don't know I trust that person so much more. It's the people who tend to know everything.

24:07.67
aaronmannes
Are.

24:13.36
smacey
Despite what their apparent scope of knowledge is who like somehow always know everything kind of gives me red flags. But when someone says hey I have no idea and I look up to that person their their credibility goes up double.

24:20.53
Anwar
Um, you hear.

24:30.90
Anwar
Crazy. Yeah yeah, yep, hundred percent

24:30.14
aaronmannes
Yeah.

24:32.27
smacey
Just from a personal just from my own personal experience.

24:36.40
aaronmannes
Yeah, they go hey that's a good question. Let's look it up just yeah, that shows confidence and just sort of like you're okay with who you are too not a need to prove something. Yeah.

24:40.62
Anwar
Yeah.

24:41.70
smacey
Um, right.

24:45.53
Anwar
Um, yeah, and it and yeah and that you yeah ego. Yeah ego. Yeah, like you don't know everything and that's okay, you know that's fine.

24:46.59
smacey
Um, right? Well anmar said ego right? That was the key word. Yeah I think people struggle with that right? like people struggle with being a beginner and not knowing stuff and it makes them feel inconfident. It lowers their confidence but I mean.

24:54.56
aaronmannes
You You shouldn't.

25:03.54
smacey
What is it the dun and kruger effect. You think you know everything at first and then you get humbled and then you feel like you know, absolutely nothing and then it's a slow curve throughout the remainder of time as you actually increase your knowledge base I love that little graph are anyone curious looked that up the dun and krueger effect.

25:08.32
Anwar
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

25:12.38
aaronmannes
Yeah again.

25:19.72
smacey
I Want to rewind a bit too when you're talking about how you're an excitable person and how that you know does wonders for you has that ever worked against you.

25:29.60
Anwar
Um, I would say my biggest issue that I do have as an educator and it kind of reflects on that is people kind of see that as I'm young or they don't really take me as serious I think people kind of connect excitement with you know, being a kid.

25:42.24
smacey
Um, okay.

25:45.82
Anwar
Get mistaken for you know, being like a volunteer or a college kid like um I graduated college years ago I know I look young and I mean it' ah I mean it goes both ways because sometimes like I feel as good I guess looking youthful, whatever but like it does when I'm in certain rooms of people who are I guess who look older than me.

25:52.37
smacey
That's sad to hear if I'm being honest.

26:05.79
Anwar
They perceive my knowledge as not being that great because of how I look and that's has always been an and an obstacle that I'm to thiss day I'm still fighting where people see me as a site I'm citing like oh this, he's a kid I guess they don't really perceive adults as Joyful and playful. They're more like us. So.

26:12.86
smacey
Um.

26:19.58
smacey
Um, that's sad. That's so sad it is.

26:22.84
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, with that.

26:23.23
Anwar
Just like but I'm not sure you can relate to them I'm sure it's it's it's interesting. You know they they they relate that excitement to okay, he's a kid. He's not you know, but I'm like no like why? Why can I make learning fun like it's so that's probably the biggest obstacle that I do have. It's just people just.

26:32.61
aaronmannes
Right.

26:35.33
smacey
Um, right.

26:38.91
Anwar
Don't take me ass seriously unfortunately but it is what is but.

26:40.21
smacey
You know what that says so much about some about the state of someone's internal like their mind like oh you're too excited and enthusiastic. Ah, you must be inexperienced or young or that's brutal. Why are we not psychedboat.

26:52.90
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

26:53.90
Anwar
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

26:56.81
smacey
Things we should be right I mean I guess that says a lot about the state of the majority of people.

27:00.50
aaronmannes
Yeah, or the or the stereotype of intelligence like the stuffy professor that's older and going to be very serious and listen to me you know versus.

27:04.35
Anwar
Um, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly? yup yup yeah yeah.

27:07.41
smacey
And bright.

27:15.59
smacey
Huh.

27:16.40
aaronmannes
The excited citable kid.

27:17.37
Anwar
Yeah I always say that my my shows on stage are every like a standup routine. So when I first started training. The first thing I learned was that never tried to be someone that you're not I had plenty mentors that I would watch on stage with different animals and 1 person is very stoic. 1 person was a bit way too. Jokey 1 person had everyone has their own style of education. And the main thing I took was like you know I can take notes on like proper ways of like you know as ah as a blueprint as a outline but most of it has I come from the individual like I can't be someone that I can't be something that I'm not I'm not really the stoic you know Stern snobby professor person. You know I fit with what works for me. So I guess have a youthful look.

27:53.55
aaronmannes
Um.

27:57.90
Anwar
I am pretty funny so I try to make learning I'm very sarcastic sorry my thing I'm very sarcastic so I make learning about animals. Fun and sarcastic. So I'll like you know, tell animal jokes on stage and and I learned that if you can get to the kid because the parents are just there for the kids for the most part if your kids are having fun. Parents are having fun the minute the kids are like mom dad I want to leave the parents got to go. So if I can make my 30 minute presentation about snake shedding or birds fun, entertaining and the kids are like having a fun time. The parents are like perfect like this is they're all having fun and that's kind of what I learned you know so.

28:17.62
aaronmannes
It's true.

28:33.29
smacey
Right? I mean and that that that concept is so applicable to photography to who are you serving right? having that intent I think even to just go back with when I'm ah when we were talking about social media I think it's helpful to have an intent before you open the app.

28:39.51
Anwar
Um, yeah, yep.

28:49.68
smacey
There's some way you can cuue yourself to to have ah an intent of what you you plan to do or what your ultimate I Know your reasons for being on an app are I think that can help minimize some damage of time lost or wasted right? um.

29:01.59
Anwar
Me. Okay.

29:07.38
smacey
I guess I was thinking as you told the you know the thing we've all done before we go to the bathroom and we've been on Tiktok or Instagram for 20 minutes we go holy shit like that's 20 minutes back my question is is catch and this is this is ah you know feel free to weigh in both of you I mean is the damage already done.

29:13.72
Anwar
Um, yeah, yeah, ah.

29:26.80
smacey
That you've wasted the 20 minutes or have you sort of succeeded in catching yourself does that make sense is that too philosophical for today's day and h with pooping and on your phone.

29:31.97
Anwar
Um, yeah, ah, no, no, no I I love I Love ah I love philosophy. But ah.

29:32.87
aaronmannes
That's good question.

29:40.49
aaronmannes
Yeah, well it depends it depends how valuable that 20 minutes is to you. You know if if I'm doing a if I'm doing a reset diet and there's there's no carbs allowed and I keep catching myself after I eat a loaf of bread. You know like I ate the loaf of bread.

29:48.28
smacey
Um, fair.

29:59.13
aaronmannes
Better. Not do that next time the the whole reset diet is not going to work for me like it's just not going to. It's not going to play out the way I want it to no matter if I catch myself or not ah so depending on what but if I allow myself in this example, a loaf of bread a day and I'm I'm just saying.

30:02.10
Anwar
Um, yeah.

30:08.72
Anwar
Um, in.

30:15.47
smacey
Um, a day.

30:17.68
Anwar
Um, look she's.

30:18.13
aaronmannes
That's the example I used if I allow that if I allow that then it's I get to that point if I take a little bit more I catch like then it's okay, but if if I'm really trying to do something if I'm trying to not be on social media and I keep blasting away 20 minutes and catching myself big deal.

30:18.26
smacey
Holy sponsored by insulin.

30:32.20
smacey
Um, right.

30:36.95
aaronmannes
Like congrats you caught yourself after you you messed the whole thing up, you know so it's one of those things now if you're going down from your screen time being 4 hours a day and you're catching yourself at 20 bravo you know and you're you're headed in the right direction I think I think it's exercising that practice or that.

30:42.22
smacey
Um, right.

30:47.25
Anwar
Um, yep.

30:51.77
smacey
Rape.

30:54.75
aaronmannes
That muscle whatever the muscle is the brain the habit the behavior the addiction, the obsessive the compulsive to to check the app even when you don't have service like I know I don't um service I'm on a plane and I'm going to check the app. No, that's a compulsion right? So to to be able to work some of those things out I think.

30:56.98
smacey
Um, right.

31:13.58
aaronmannes
Then you're you're on the right track? Um, but if you're if you're just doing what you normally do, but you catch yourself after you do it, you might be tricking yourself.

31:20.11
smacey
Um, right right? right? right? right? right? Yeah makes sense. Well I mean go ahead a more.

31:24.39
Anwar
Yeah, when yeah, yeah, yeah, really fast. Yeah when I was in Africa I was super excited about this trip was like ah almost half a month and ah was really stupid I just had my phone out doing a rainstorm and I actually broke probably like five days within this trip. So I'm out here in the middle of you know and whole new country and without a phone and at first it was the most stressful thing my life is I am you know I can't check the time I can't check anything I don't have a translator like I felt you know naked it without it and and I was it was a weird thing I'm like this piece. This small thing is. Such a huge importance in my life and luckily throughout the trip you know I kind of eased out and I had the most enjoyable time because I was able to actually just take in my surroundings like instead of just like checking on the clock and Instagram and Facebook or whatever I was just out.

32:13.24
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

32:17.61
Anwar
Enjoying myself in nature and of course you know I would go home and check make sure I think was okay, um, on the computer I'll I'll update myself and like my family and I'm okay, but just being out in the moment and not just having my phone phone phone. It felt really good after a while so that initial shock was very stressful. Like like a drug like a drug. We keep saying this example like it felt like I was I need I need I My phone I'm craving it and then I was like you know it feels good. Not really having to check my text or check I just know being in the moment felt amazing. The.

32:43.96
aaronmannes
Yeah I think now I I travel up to the Adirondacks a bunch and there's basically no service up there. So it really flips like now where I live it's I'd say 90% service and occasionally you have like 1 bar no bars and it doesn't work when you go up there. It flips where it's like.

32:52.43
Anwar
Um.

33:03.26
aaronmannes
90% you're not going to have service and there's these little pockets where you might and it it just immediately switches for me as I've been up there a bunch where it's like oh I'm in the no service zone like you can let it go you can you just like it's not going to work and you let it go you accept the fate of I can't really check my phone. And then it it has a nice healthy balance where it's like oh I know this little town where you go get coffee. You'll get you can get wi-fi for a minute and you do your priority stuff because you're there for 10 minutes before you go back out like I want to want to text my families and friends and just say I'm good. Maybe check the weather for tomorrow ah anything on Instagram I need to ah deal with no, not really, it's garbage all right then let's move on and you go back into the wild and and kind of know that there's that safety net that 10% somewhere in the town but most of the time you're just gone and it it.

33:40.78
Anwar
Um, see it.

33:56.47
aaronmannes
You do transform after a couple days of like oh this is kind of nice, not being so relying on it not wasting time necessarily just scrolling or looking for things or just the habit of just pick up the apps go through this app that app that app put it down 30 seconds later same thing like that.

33:59.40
Anwar
And we have.

34:11.34
Anwar
Yeah, yeah.

34:15.65
aaronmannes
We've all done that where it's like oh my god I just did that why am I doing that again. I just think it's it's really nice I told Seth um I went on like a camping van trip for a week last year and I was in this van for the entire week. There's no mirrors in a very similar analogy. Where you don't have to check your appearance ever. You don't see a reflection There's another piece of you that layers and like pulls away and 1 of the biggest pullaways from this whole trip was like I didn't even realize it till the end I was like huh there was it was just being a nature and seeing what I see.

34:38.59
Anwar
Um, he.

34:54.13
aaronmannes
And being with my I was with my son being with my son traveling where are we going to next. There was no like how do I look today like do I need to shave do and like any of that stuff any of that sort of ego like self-centered like how do I look sort of thing completely went away. And I probably look like absolute crap like walking into restaurants but it was nice to allow that to just disappear slowly without like the the pressure of like oh I don't look good today I didn't sleep well or like any of that stuff. It just went and you could just be it really was like a nice.

35:13.58
Anwar
And.

35:30.83
aaronmannes
Realization.

35:31.64
Anwar
I'm laughing because I had the exact same experience in Africa because we were on the island so we had to like actually bathe and a lake in ah in a waterfall like no service and we spent like maybe two weeks there and on my way back at the airport like in the mirror. Ah, like complete shit like my like I had like this caveman scraggly beard my hair was it was I was like wow but you're right when you're in that moment you're like I'm out here just living life and it almost brings up another point where like I'm still to this day kind of struggling but it's making content as well. There's that balance of.

35:47.28
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah.

35:51.62
smacey
Nice.

35:55.82
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

36:05.40
Anwar
I want to just be existing now. But I'm focused on oh let's be a cool video for Instagram should like and I'm sure you've all probably experienced that like you know the balance of being in the moment for your photography but also in the back of your mind of oh should I record this for content this like is profitable and I kind of hate I kind of hate it. But it's like.

36:09.48
aaronmannes
Are.

36:21.64
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

36:24.10
Anwar
It's a must and I I I always feel conflicted with that aspect of just this world that we live in where we constantly need to pump out photography and videos and keep it because we we stop we fall off and reach it's It's just keeping up with the algorithm and and ah. Yeah I Wonder if you guys ever go through anything like that.

36:41.26
aaronmannes
Yeah, ah I mean definitely I think that it's too different I try to separate it in 2 different things am I going. My first love is photography I do like video I do like if I have ah you know a funny idea or some sort of real I think like oh this is a. Good idea to me. It's content creation in ah in a different way. Um, and I think I try to separate the 2 just for my own brain because doing both out at the same time. Both are going to be shitty. You know if I'm really trying to get a great photo of a bald eagle let's say for example, that's what I've been looking at lately. Ah I really need to be there 100% like I'm ready for this photo I want to get this takeoff photo I don't want to be videoing like a funny thing while the the moment happens and then I miss it so to be able to separate it. The thing that I do like nicely about like content creation and creating video is. You can kind of separate it and you can attach a photo from the day before to a video from this current day and kind of put a story together versus it all has to be in the same exact moment and very truthful. There's some. There's some leniency in terms of your storytelling of like. This is what I this is a reenactment of what I was like yesterday, but this is the photo from a week ago you know and and you can kind of cultivate these these pieces of content and show off photos from a really serious photo session.

37:58.23
Anwar
Yeah.

38:13.42
aaronmannes
So being able to separate it for me is really important I've tried to go out and do both things and nothing comes out the way I want it Seth thoughts.

38:22.95
smacey
Yeah I just I've I've very much simplified my approach. Ah if I'm having fun I'm doing it. So if I'm feeling like editing a video and it's fun. It's enjoyable times flying I'm right where I'm supposed to be. You know if I don't want to be out taking a picture good.

38:35.64
aaronmannes
Ah, yeah.

38:40.72
smacey
If it's not if it's not fun that day I'm not doing it. It's just that's kind of now. My new criteria am I having fun if I'm not having fun I'm not doing it. You know, especially like and that's that's more so like for the things that I you know I'm passionate about you know we talk about the cold showers and all that stuff. That's not fun. What I'm talking about here is things that like are my passion.

38:47.28
Anwar
Um, yeah, like that. Yeah.

38:47.96
aaronmannes
Yeah, it's great.

38:53.76
Anwar
You know.

39:00.67
smacey
I don't want. We talk a lot on the show about not having your passion be taken away from you because it because it becomes too much of a chore or it's keeping up with the joneses I mean of course do I want 100000 followers yeah am I going to sacrifice my happiness to do it. No.

39:01.10
Anwar
Um.

39:10.50
Anwar
Um, and a yeah.

39:20.17
smacey
I Mean that may sound like an excuse to some but I just I Just don't for me I don't see the I don't see the fair trade value in that. Um, if that means putting out a real week because I want to and I'm like excited to put something out that I filmed.

39:20.40
Anwar
Um, yeah now.

39:31.80
Anwar
Um, yeah.

39:38.40
smacey
Despite one real week not being sufficient to grow. So be it like I'm okay with that tradeoff you know, um, that's sort of where I met but speaking of you know we were talking about being healthy. You're obviously an in-shaped guy if people think I'm lying subscribe on Youtube and watch this episode.

39:38.21
Anwar
Um, yeah, yeah I like that? Yeah yeah.

39:38.36
aaronmannes
Um.

39:40.98
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

39:52.95
Anwar
Um, I'm trying.

39:57.27
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

39:57.35
smacey
Um, but we do talk a lot about fitness and treating our bodies nicely. We talk about running a lot staying healthy. We actually had a listener write us and ask us to talk more about the subject which perhaps we'll do more in depth in another episode. Um, but to somewhat satisfy. That listeners's request to hear more about this topic. How have you found staying in good shape exercising taking care of yourself has helped you stay consistent with your photography right? We talk Aaron and I talk about how you know look good feel. Good play good more energy it. It does directly translate to.

40:24.85
Anwar
Um, so yeah, yeah, yeah.

40:33.61
smacey
Better performance with photography taking care of yourself. You know how has it helped you stay motivated to accomplish tasks. How has it helped your overall day-to-day performance. Um, this particular listener mentioned that they they accredited a lot of their commitment to fitness to being commitment.

40:34.14
Anwar
E.

40:48.74
smacey
Being committed to their photography journey as well and it's helped them power through creative lows I'm curious to hear your relationship if there is 1

40:51.10
Anwar
Go hundred percent yeah I even like because I you aside like I just love being in shape or' just being healthy in general I just think there's nothing better than waking up and you're just it just transpires if you if you're eating good. You're taking care of yourself. You kind of start your day off already on a good foot. You know like you wake up, you have energy your body works and so I watch some many people on Instagram and they're like they're like oh not old, but like you know they're they're they're a lot older than me and they're in good shape. And I'm like I want to be like that like I want I want to be in my older years and I want to still be able to move crouch down pick up. You know I want to be able to be bolt mobile with my kids eventually. So I look at that for the future but also like I enjoy photography so I want to be able to.

41:32.80
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah.

41:41.24
Anwar
Walk around the jungles at but 70 you know I want to be able to do all these activities if I take care of myself and my body now I don't I don't so I don't smoke I don't drink I don't do any drugs anything like that and ah growing up. It was really hard because you know.

41:44.10
smacey
A.

41:57.17
Anwar
Popular in high school like drinking and stuff like that was so if you if you didn't drink you were a weirdo and that's kind of how I was when I was in high school and I kind of you know I like luckily I had friends that were supportive but a lot of people were like oh you don't drink that's kind of what we what you would you like that's that's weird you know and even like yeah.

42:02.46
smacey
Um, right.

42:10.84
aaronmannes
Yeah, are you Katie have a problem like the.

42:14.33
smacey
It's still like that.

42:14.94
Anwar
Yeah, it still. Yeah I recently went to like an event and someone was like not drinking man I'm like no and he's like oh man you you can't have fun I was like you know, whatever. So it's It's one of those things where I'm like live your life. That's fine. But I I just really care about my body and I'm noticing that as I'm getting older I'm sound like I'm like an old man.

42:25.11
smacey
Um, right.

42:33.90
Anwar
Old man I'm only twenty nine I'm only 29 well yeah yeah, yeah, but I'm realize as I'm getting older as I'm getting older. My body isn't recovering like it used to.

42:34.30
smacey
Um, how old are you? oh the same age right on oldie Aaron.

42:36.86
aaronmannes
Um I would just he's talking about me.

42:46.73
Anwar
And I'm like oh umm like oh my my metity is slowing down a little bit. You know I got injured actually recently like I messed up my shoulder I actually bruised my Stern I'm doing some stuff working out and I'm like I'm not bouncing back like I used to so I got to really kind of take care of my body and it just overall makes.

42:56.44
smacey
Okay.

43:03.56
Anwar
The outside world Really fun and enjoyable ah being able to hike climb areas crouch down low you know for photography we have to be mobile caring gear. It says all these things kind of help relate back to my fitness. Ah when I was in Italy we had to hike up this mountain and I'm like I can I'm in pretty good shape.

43:05.98
smacey
Um, yeah.

43:16.40
smacey
Yeah.

43:18.71
aaronmannes
Um, you know.

43:23.51
Anwar
Was struggling I was like so exhausted I was sweating I was like this is ah like I thought I knew you know I got my body but I guess there was still limitations and stuff like that. So I I take fitness very very very seriously in that aspect and for Instagram I mean it's just fun like.

43:37.73
smacey
Yeah.

43:42.92
Anwar
Attracting you audiences like I know I have like I meme with like their straps stuff like that like the shirtless thing It is fun. It's a fun thing. Yeah, it's you know like I know it's like cringy or whatever but it's like the the way I see it and the way it helps is that I want to kind of it's part of my.

43:49.18
smacey
Ah, ripping This is just where you just go like this.

44:00.58
Anwar
Personality like before I did photography I was really into fitness on my Instagram like I was way way way back then and overall like you know I just I enjoy it and if I can target new audiences now everyone may be into animals from the get go but they see if somebody they find a track to whatever they click on this guy's page and it's say oh cool I'll follow him for that.

44:04.57
smacey
Um, right.

44:07.75
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

44:19.45
Anwar
And there's actually a photographer that I know who's in a weird boat where he started off doing a lot of landscape stuff. He's a good looking dude and he he got really popular on Tiktok and he's huge following of of people who were just in his comments saying you know you're so hot. You're so hot you're so you're in shape you're in shape and he's in a weird spot because he wants to post more of his photography. But no one cares about that. They just want to see him and I was like I don't want to go that far like I want to keep it where yeah yeah, yeah, actually had someone to Dm me and was like.

44:39.85
smacey
Um, right just see the comments. It's just did but did did did did to. He's like ladies please enough.

44:39.88
aaronmannes
I Have that same problem I do I do I mean yeah, it's like the Boomer boomer.

44:55.74
Anwar
Yeah I appreciate you like you you like it's your page but like I appreciate if you just like you know took more did more animal stuff and not and show less of you and I was like excuse you like this is my account like you don't like what I'm hosting here. You can leave you know So it's one of those things and it's it's hard. You know.

45:03.68
smacey
Um, right? That's fair.

45:05.40
aaronmannes
Yeah.

45:12.54
Anwar
Boun fine that balance but I like you said before like I'm having fun and it's generally my personality I want to kind of show my lot more myself in my work and like I said Fitness is a huge part and I'm having fun I Enjoy This is my account. This is my page I'm gonna do what I you know I'll go do what I want.

45:20.28
smacey
Um, bright.

45:26.55
aaronmannes
What's what's a double edgeged sword about about fitness is that if you're if you're a fantastic classical pianist or if you you put your I'm going to do ah a concerto Chopin concerto I'm doing this whole classical piece. It's incredibly hard. No one's like show off.

45:31.14
Anwar
Is.

45:44.40
aaronmannes
Right? Like that's the thing you're passionate about that's what you want to show and we all do whether you're a great golfer photographer videographer. Um you do hair and makeup like we're all showing if you're on there usually things that you're passionate about and care about and maybe that you're talented at or have worked at whatever it may be.

45:45.60
smacey
Um, right.

45:45.16
Anwar
Yeah, yeah.

46:00.48
Anwar
And it.

46:03.65
smacey
Um, right.

46:04.31
aaronmannes
And Fitness has this weird sort of like oh you're into yourself like well yeah, you know what I am I'm I'm proud of I'm proud of being healthy I'm proud of doing this and like I'm showing the hard work. Ah, it's the same as showing the hard work of piano and if people are like.

46:09.21
Anwar
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

46:10.14
smacey
Proud. Yeah.

46:22.68
aaronmannes
It's It's more a reflection on them I think in terms of like oh I don't need to see that or or they're they're making me feel like whatever it is whatever it may be um, it's just an interesting dichotomy between like some other skill that you're showing off versus I'm showing off how much I've worked at whatever it may be.

46:24.93
Anwar
Um, oh hundred percent yeah

46:31.10
Anwar
Um, in here. Yeah yeah.

46:35.27
Anwar
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

46:41.67
aaronmannes
Physique Health Fitness the ability to feel comfortable taking my shirt off whatever it is and and good for you? Yeah, um so I mean I mean yeah and and by talking to you by hearing you speak. It's not.

46:42.40
smacey
Um, yeah.

46:46.38
smacey
I was going to make that exact point.

46:57.58
Anwar
No yeah, yeah.

46:57.98
aaronmannes
All about that. You're obviously educated you're talking about a whole bunch of other things. It's ah it's Instagram it's a game you know if photos were the only thing that did it, you probably would be shooting just posting photos of animals right.

47:08.14
Anwar
Yep, Ah yep, yep I tell everyone I was like I enjoy myself more so like you know behind the camera than their front of it like I can do it but I have way more fun taking pictures of animals than of myself. It gets boring like if I'm being real like being front of the camera posing. It's not that fun. It's not that exciting. It's kind of like cool. It's me like I'm shirtless. Whatever but like it does get like heartbreaking when like I post a picture of like a bird or an owl or not Owl I never got an Owl Ah I'm upset about that but a bird that I love an eagle and it gets like you know a few.. Whatever.

47:42.34
aaronmannes
Um.

47:44.22
Anwar
Ah, pose a shirtless picture. Everyone's like I'm like this took no effort like I I work so hard I mean? yeah yeah I Guess true. That's true that is true that is true. That's true that is true that is true I guess I don't see you right? You're right? It took effort more shirtless pictures. Any Okay thank you.

47:47.81
aaronmannes
But it did take a lot of effort. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what.

47:48.68
smacey
That's not true. That's not true. It did take effort that's Aaron's point right? like you worked really hard for that.

47:58.59
smacey
I think he had more shirtless pictures I think Aaron's comparison was like was like people you work so hard to be a good photographer you work. So so hard so much effort and then you get this awesome image and people are like hey sweet like that's awesome and then you work. So so so hard in the gym.

48:03.47
Anwar
I Know Yeah, true. Yeah.

48:14.23
Anwar
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

48:15.98
smacey
Through injuries you know years and years of packing packing on muscle cutting fat and then you post that and people like inflated ego show off, It's like what's the difference. What's the difference if you can like creatively integrate it into your what's the difference between that and becoming really really, really funny.

48:19.68
aaronmannes
Show off? Yeah yeah.

48:20.56
Anwar
Um, that's true. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's very true. That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly.

48:32.85
smacey
Working on your comedy routine and then incorporating your comedy into your photography. No one's going to say that so it's very interesting.

48:38.84
Anwar
Exactly exactly? Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah.

48:39.59
aaronmannes
And and if you were if you were £300 and lost £100 like everyone everyone applauds you on the way up when you have the when you have a top physique or you have you know you're you're really at the top. There's there's no room but to just try to tear you down.

48:46.91
Anwar
Um, yep.

48:56.99
Anwar
Um, yeah, that's social media. Yeah.

48:58.10
aaronmannes
That is that's social media. That's where you start to get a following you start to get a bunch of people you start to get more comments. You're going to get the ones that are like I know everything you know, let me let me post my opinion about his physique. Ah you know, look like you had a little extra carbs this week like just.

49:06.18
Anwar
Um, oh yeah, oh oh trust me Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

49:16.65
smacey
Um, the loaf of bread.

49:16.92
aaronmannes
Stupid entire loaf of bread meanwhile these two 29 year olds are complaining about like ah injuries and waking up in the morning and my body's not the way it used to freaking weight freaking wait I'm sitting over here like I tore my hamstring putting my shoes on today.

49:27.61
Anwar
Um, as funny. Oh my God That's oh my God Oh my God to.

49:34.29
aaronmannes
I'm out for four to six months because of it. Ah yeah, yeah, take it easy over there. 29 year olds like.

49:39.50
smacey
Ah, yeah, I'm hurt too right now. So right.

49:41.86
Anwar
To be ah even more practical I've been taking up by swimming because I've always had a fear of water and I'm doing really well now because I want to actually get into marine photography. That's my new like guilty pleasure on Instagram just going through people's accounts like well sharks and seats are just like just being underwater I'm like this is a different world and I want to I want to explore you know.

49:44.35
aaronmannes
Oh.

49:57.93
aaronmannes
Yeah.

50:01.82
Anwar
So I've been doing that and I didn't know how draining swimming can be like endurance- wise I'm like oh my lord like it's It's a lot. So yeah, it's crazy how like people who do things like they're in shape like they're endurance. They're cardio like like they're really.

50:03.81
aaronmannes
Oh God it's It's a lot.

50:08.41
smacey
Yeah.

50:18.20
Anwar
And Instagram is really I guess show that you see these pictures. You see the videos but you don't only see the behind the scenes of like the person training to be able to deep dive and do these things. It's not just going to water. It's a lot of work and I'm like props to them. So yeah.

50:29.81
aaronmannes
Yeah, great point.

50:31.38
smacey
Yeah, so I guess sort of what I'm hearing too is like pictures of yourself looking in great shape are sort of a funnel to your photography which is I think very smart so you know the other the other thing I wanted to ask was. Obviously in a lot of those photos you have the very ginormous massive prime lens which in itself is ah I would say it's a hook right? didn't we talk about this with Slater Aaron utilizing the the beautiful lens to not only capture great photos but to also hook people in who aren't wildlife photographers who are like.

50:57.80
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we did just.

50:58.49
Anwar
Um.

51:02.30
Anwar
A.

51:09.74
smacey
Whoa What is that I mean do you find that the massive Canon Prime lens not only helps capture photos but also axe as a funnel or a prop or engagement.

51:10.33
Anwar
Um, yeah, yeah, ah it's it It I can't tell you how many times I have sure experienced to you just go out and someone's like that's a big lens and then you're just like.

51:24.00
smacey
Um, right? Yes, you know what they say.

51:24.86
aaronmannes
Um, you you wink you just wink. Yeah, yeah.

51:25.72
Anwar
I Respond to this because it's such a weird like thank you, Thank you? You know it's happens every single time that I'm out and it's definitely a conversation starter and people want um, learn about what you're doing. It's it's almost. It's almost like a real estate agent.

51:36.89
smacey
Right.

51:42.40
Anwar
Having to have a really nice car I've learned to people who do real estate typically dress nice to have a nice car for the appearance of looking a certain way to kind of convince people hey this guy know who he' talking about and it's almost like this too. We're like have you looked the part of you know you're out there with this giant camera looking up into trees people were like oh do you work for like natcheo. Do you work for like this. Um, like no you know, but you kind of explain your situation and people tend to take you a bit more seriously and they went on see your Instagram where they do want to see your website so it's definitely helped me get a lot of people on the platform also just out in public and people coming up to me and wanting to learn about but my account g yesterday I was out.

52:17.86
smacey
Right.

52:19.89
aaronmannes
Um, it's interesting.

52:20.88
Anwar
Photographing osprey and they were just flying above shooting with my camera and like this girl walked by and she was like you get a picture of the osprey and I was like oh yeah, you know was flying was really cool. She's like give an Instagram I was like yeah have an Instagram here. It's just a good networking tool and at times it feels you know it could feel a bit. How do I freeze it like you're kind of clutching on this thing like you're kind of just like you know show we like hey like look at me I have this a prop like a prop for example, but you know it's I don't really see it like that people kind of see it. They it will say like you're using as a prop like you know you get or you know I don't really care but I've gotten at a few times or. People have accused me of not really being a role photographer because they just think that I'm just like you know out in some park or in my backyard or if I can still be in my backyard. There's plenty of birds back there but people don't really they they see me as you know though his mom bought it for them.

53:06.40
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

53:12.69
Anwar
He's just faking. He's not really a real Ti friend those are real things I've heard over time so it works both ways people like it. Some people are like oh you're just so your your parents bought you a nice lens I'm like no I yeah you this is my hard earn. You know I don't reply but people feel jealous and they want to just come at you and just say you're just showing off or.

53:23.13
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

53:30.42
Anwar
Can take better pictures of my cell phone. What what? um imagine wasting you know this much money and where you can I'm like you know I'm like like live your live your someone who came from a cell phone photography I'm might live your life man like you can so it goes both ways.

53:38.92
aaronmannes
Yeah, my Samsung S 3 and so they always say my Samsung S 3 could take this.

53:41.75
smacey
Um, right actually.

53:46.92
Anwar
Um, yeah I guess Boat place. Yeah.

53:48.13
smacey
Yeah I have that I have that as a question written down. Um, if you feel the accessibility of smartphones and how good their cameras are becoming has influenced perceptions of photographers for better or worse and what I mean by this is.

53:53.59
Anwar
Um, ah.

54:02.15
smacey
If more and more people have access to better and better cameras that fit in their pockets does it make what photographers are doing who are using ah slrs or mirrorless cameras less valued or appreciated in the eyes of non-photographers and does that matter.

54:15.68
Anwar
Yeah,, that's a really hard question. It's a really good question because I'm conflicted Yes and no so yes from the people who kind of just want to hate So There are a lot of people who just like I said will see you out in the field using your lens or you whatever you're doing and they may just. Feel that jealousy of like oh I don't have that thing So I'm going to just crap on it. So I'm going to comment a imagine buying this big lens waste of time I can I can do the same thing on my cell phone and you just let them just you know they they already have it in their mind they they should know that there's a reason why photographers buy these ah giant investments for their photography they know but they they want to troll.

54:48.70
aaronmannes
Um.

54:52.94
Anwar
And that's it I don't really feed that um I look at it as it's a great tool for people to get into photography as someone who who's came from the world of like using a cell phone. It's accessible and cameras now are so good. It's a great gateway repo to who who want to get started into this world I don't want to gatekeep and be like no, you can't take pictures on yourself like no like I want more and more people to go out and I've actually I think I'm doing a workshop pretty scene where I'm working with high schoolers and we're going to be ah exploring a local park. They're going to have their cell phones out. We're gonna do some like birding on our phones using like a birding you have to like identify the pictures and you know so I think it's a great way for people to kind of you know bridge that gap because people see photography as you know there's a higher. You know you guys are super professional I can ever live in that world I have my lowly self I'm like no like we can connect like don't there's there shouldnt be this separation. You know I think that these are tools they're they're very, they're very good. Why not use them. So for the people who want to hate I don't really care about them I think it's actually a good tool for people. To get into the world of photography and the cameras now I've seen some stuff people can do some There's a lot of counts in Instagram they're people doing really really really cool stuff just what their cell phonee I'm like that's actually pretty impressive composition lighting all that stuff like you guys know what you're doing and.

56:13.59
Anwar
And only goes up from there once you realize wait my phone only do this much all I want to get a Dslr I want to get this I want to get that I want to get that and it kind of just adds and adds on and adds on. So yeah.

56:22.68
smacey
Right right? makes total sense. You guys doing good for camera batteries quickly though. Good Aaron that did not sound confident. We talked so much about confidence today anyways continue all your your.

56:25.77
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, it's a yeah I think so I think so um I I was just going to say it's a tool.

56:27.60
Anwar
Um, yeah I'm good. Yeah.

56:40.19
smacey
Out on aaron.

56:41.94
Anwar
Um, yeah.

56:43.36
aaronmannes
It a tool but there's got to be skills behind it and it reminds me and where I often talk about golf but tiger woods changed golf in terms of his physique and and working out. He changed it for everyone going forward and he was a dominant force and that'd be equivalent to 1 person having a 500 prime lens out of the entire field of photographers where it's like wow. That's a different that's a different ballgame. Ah now almost everyone has a personal trainer workout routine lifting weights strength trainer flexible like they're all doing some sort of version of what tiger did.

57:01.49
Anwar
In.

57:19.99
aaronmannes
And now the field is very much leveled out. There's a lot more competition week to week from tournament to tournament. But then occasionally someone rises above that because of sheer talent in our case would be composition or creativity or something different. So the. All the cream rises sports keep getting better and better and better art gets more interesting better and better better. You can arguably say um I just think it's that's the competition like look around. You're not the only one that's taking a photo of an Osprey 1000000 people took a photo of an osprey today.

57:52.82
Anwar
Um, in.

57:56.73
aaronmannes
How does yours compare whereas you know twenty years ago you might have been the only person taking a photo of an osprey on that day. So it's just become ah things are going to get better and better and better all around from the low-end photographers are going to be better than.

57:58.36
Anwar
Yep yep.

58:02.62
Anwar
The.

58:12.90
aaronmannes
But they were twenty years ago and the high end photographers are going to create these amazing and capture these amazing moments in wildlife or whatever your genre is and the the bar just keeps on raising what doesn't change is the work and the.

58:24.92
Anwar
Um, this.

58:28.38
aaronmannes
Again, perseverance going out day after day waiting for 4 hours every single day 5 hours every single day learning ah an area day after day after day if you go out once a week and do it for an hour trying to catch a picture of an osprey. You're probably not going to get that one that's going to beat the other million that we're taking today.

58:47.83
Anwar
Yup, yep yeah you mentioned a really good point so I was actually watching a video on the same subject about ah people that were in this photo competition and you know this person was kind of upset and it complains to 1 the judge and just said.

58:48.00
aaronmannes
It's just the way it is you know.

59:02.31
Anwar
This person that won I don't understand like it was the same exact bird. Why did this person want ever mine like I I use this expensive equipment. How I understand how they're different and the judges look he said okay I'll I'll look at your picture again and he was like yeah they're the same exact animal but the that the one that one. Was able to convey a story, an emotion something different and I always preached this to my followers who reached out to me or like hey how do I get better photography I'm like the world of photography is so like you said so saturated so much competition. If I Google a picture of an osprey. You'll get millions of pictures. The the trick is how can you make your work stand out. How can you give emotion? How can you you know be different amongst everyone else and that's how you find people I said that keep raising that bar of you know, not just an ospray. It's an osprey upside down grabbing a fish or some it's an osprey doing it. It's it's.

59:45.45
aaronmannes
Um.

59:51.28
Anwar
Yawning it's doing something. It's conveying more of a story than just a picture of a bird you know sitting there and if that's what you want that's fine. But if you want to grow and get better and better and capture. You know more moments like that you have to really push yourself in challenge like you said like going out for an hour you may not. You may get lucky and get something cool.

59:55.44
aaronmannes
Um, right.

01:00:08.41
Anwar
But usually those really amazing moments happen where you're out there waiting and waiting and waiting and it's just you can sit there and have a full session with your subject and get those behaviors of mating or you know feeding or whatever it's doing instead of just oh it flew by I got a picture and that's it you know So I definitely think that.

01:00:18.62
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:00:23.10
aaronmannes
Right.

01:00:27.64
Anwar
You said it's a good point of just raising that bar and just conveying more of yourself and storytelling in your work and just taking a picture and said is is a bird like it. You know so.

01:00:35.29
aaronmannes
Yeah I think it's no matter what it is it comes down to a little bit of time and time on site. You know we all do wildlife. So the example being like if you go out for an hour you might get lucky. You might get a decent shot you out of your 10200 photos you take

01:00:44.60
Anwar
Um, it.

01:00:53.61
aaronmannes
There's going to be 1 like oh that's pretty good. But if you do that for six days in a row with the same bird pair. That's hunting fishing bringing food back to the nest like whatever it is now you have 6 days times. 200 you have 1200 photos to look at there's going be 1 that's remarkable compared to that.

01:01:06.50
Anwar
Um, and.

01:01:12.13
Anwar
Um, yep.

01:01:12.33
aaronmannes
Now you do that over a month and you pick the one best photo. It's not even compared to that 1 hour first time so it does come down to like how much do you really? love the thing and how much are you really putting in the time to take it to the highest highest level. You know.

01:01:16.43
Anwar
And.

01:01:29.18
Anwar
Hundred percent yep sounds good.

01:01:32.30
aaronmannes
Mike drop.

01:01:33.25
smacey
Well said well said unsolicited feedback on photos and reels. Um, if it isn't asked for. Is it rude or is it helpful. So like if someone just.

01:01:47.46
Anwar
Um, what do you mean.

01:01:50.94
smacey
Leaves a comment offering their feedback on a photo or reel that you posted and you didn't ask for it. Do you do you take that as rude or is it helpful for you to hear those things.

01:01:54.48
Anwar
Ah.

01:01:59.25
Anwar
It depends on how it's phrased I'm open to Criticism. That's in the line of work that I am like I when I'm working people come up to me and said hey you did this talk I think you you can do this better I I mean I have the mindset of you can always be Better. You can always change. No One's Perfect. So I have that with my photography as well. If I see a comment and someone's just like that's a cool picture I would have decreased the highlights I'm like oh cool I appreciate that like I'll actually respond back. But you're saying oh this photo is shit or you're a terrible like if if you come across and you're already just being rude and arrogant for the sake of it.

01:02:34.14
aaronmannes
Um.

01:02:34.52
Anwar
I not going to take you seriously of course. Ah, if ah if I go on your profile and you have nothing there or you have like you know, no pictures I'm like oh you're a troll. You're just purposely doing it so it definitely is a balance I don't think anyone is above criticism and I will happily take it so people will comment and say hey good job or hey. Maybe decreased saturation of this or this is a bit much I'm not really feeling this edit. That's I appreciate the love I appreciate the support I appreciate the engagement of you willing to sit there and actually you know say something about it and interact with the post. So I really appreciate that is getting perspectives I took a picture of a red deer and I did that edit. Blow up on Instagram and people were like you know I get that a lot. We're like it's terrible. This is really bad edit I like editing a lot I kind of like play around with my edits and stuff so at times it kind of get a bit crazy. But um I did the edit again recently for a editing course I was doing and it was a lot more of a natural edit. And I was like I kind of actually like this style a bit different than my previous one. So I think people kind of change like as you grow as a photographer you know, looking back at my work I'm like we're always growing. We're always changing. We're always trying on different stuff and techniques and that's just part of it maybe edit I did a couple months ago looking back on my hand. Maybe I won't ever do that again. You know, but that's just part.

01:03:42.61
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:03:45.35
Anwar
Ah, being a photographer just learning and growing and changing. So.

01:03:48.57
smacey
Right? right? right? right? I was particularly drawn to the eyes on the animals that you edit um, is there some sauce there can you divulge from the ingredients.

01:03:54.14
Anwar
Yeah, yeah, probably my my most controversial like ah thing that I've been doing with my photography I learned that technique from another wild photographer that I watch forgot her name Danny Danny forgot her last name but she she from she's from Sweden. Love her work and she I've noticed that people in their photography. Her work is always beautiful. But I'm like there's something that's missing from my work and your work. What is it I'm like it's the eyes and when you learn it like the eyes are like the gateways they take horse of the soul like the gateway that we first look at an image just like you're always directed towards that the eyes of a subject. And when I learn like how simple it is just like you know highlight mask guys brighten them increasee to clarity I'm obsessed so almost every picture I kind of just like you know, brightening up making it a bit more attractive and just I turn my pictures almost into art in a sense I look at photography as a way of art and also how when I express myself.

01:04:37.24
aaronmannes
Are.

01:04:50.42
Anwar
And I'm very clear I say that if I'm using my work for scientific research as I do a lot of stuff here at my job involving like research if I need a picture of a bird I'm gonna give them the most natural raw image of that animal I'm not gonna obviously spruce it out I'm gonna give it but like for social media I'll spruce it up I'll buy a little.

01:05:01.99
smacey
Um, right.

01:05:08.80
Anwar
My little taste and all my little style on it I'll mix it up and have fun with it. But I'm really clear I'm like if I'm using this for a photo competition I'll be upfront honest I won't I probably can't use most of my stuff because it's it's way too flashy. It's not as natural and I'm upfront honest about that I'm using it for research I'm not going to use it. But for my social media for my own personal benefit.

01:05:27.60
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, like that.

01:05:28.12
Anwar
I'll have fun with my work.

01:05:29.11
smacey
Well said well said if you could offer one piece of advice to yourself your former photographer self just one. What would it be.

01:05:39.82
aaronmannes
Um, when you were much younger at like 22

01:05:40.57
Anwar
Ah, oh my God I Really wish I started sooner honestly. Ah oh um, don't be afraid ah take take more risk I I've always had.

01:05:45.48
smacey
Um, it doesn't even need to be photography. Yeah like a piece of fatigue could be life advice anything.

01:05:58.16
Anwar
This notion in my mind that traveling wasn't gonna be for me I For the longest time I kind of loved the life of being told. No when I was like and I Wast going to my first high school I had my high school interview with the Principal and he was like you know what do you want to be when you grow up. And he was with his assistants and I was like I want to be a zoologist and I was super happy and my parents were there and the Principal and his assistants all started to laugh like they they were cracking up and I just sat there and I was like you know? Well, It's what's so funny I didn't like tell a joke and the Principal looked them and who was like zoology like a zoologist. That's a really heart filled to get into.

01:06:22.12
aaronmannes
Are.

01:06:32.88
Anwar
So it's a lot of work and you know time instead you have long legs play basketball for my school instead. So that's what he told me when I was in high school and I of course I was broken I was devastated and at that young age and I didn't really have an adult. Tell me something like that I had my parents always encouraged me so you can do it. You can do it. It's my first encounter with someone in the real world in a professional setting someone saying your dream is not real I'm sorry it's not for you. Luckily that wasn't the case and I went to another school and then you know my life is I'm doing it now which is amazing. But um, even so. Then I still in the back of my mind I was like okay I'm doing it. But there's still limitations like I could never I'm on Instagram my people are in Africa people are in Australia I'm like I'm a kid from Philadelphia I'm never going to be able to like do these things and my first trip I have a good friend. He was like dude we should go to Wyoming and I was like dude that's so far away. And he was like but is yellowstones there we can do like cool like exploring out there do get some photography done and I was like sure. Whatever man? Well we'll go to wine I was like we're not kind of go to Wyoming and we did it and it was my first time flying international and that was like I'm sorry national. My first time on an airplane and that was like maybe like three years ago and I had time in my life and from then I'm next you know I'm in Africa and being in Africa like when I first got to reveal that I was able to go through my work I like cried because I couldn't really comprehend I was like my entire life I didn't think that this world was going to be for me I always sought through a by small screen.

01:07:50.47
aaronmannes
Um.

01:08:04.28
Anwar
And I kind of live vicuriously through other people other photographers and I was like but I'm actually in the rainfor in Africa photographing monkeys I was like this is a reality that I'm living in and none this would have happened if I didn't really take that leap and it's really scary as i. For people who reach out to me who are working 9 to 5 jobs who want to make photography their thing. It's hard. It's not easy for everyone and they always say how do you do it? How do you do it because how do you take that leap because I have responsibilities. How do you make money and it's hard answering that question. Everyone has a different life. Everyone has different circumstances. But I say if you can no try to just figure out your life situation if you can try to just take that leap now of course with safety nets there as well. It'll be worth it because if you're not truly happy with a life that you're living and you feel as though you can always do more. You can do better. Why not take that risk you know so I would say take more risk take more opportunity. There's a huge world out there and there's so much I'm still learning every single day about the world that I'm in and you will regret it if you don't take that chance. So.

01:09:08.72
smacey
Very well said ladies and gentlemen Anwwar thanks for joining us today man and war call. We we said that right? Yeah, absolutely all right? Well until next time appreciate your time today man that was an awesome interview Aaron pleasure talking with you as always.

01:09:12.44
Anwar
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, Thank you? Yeah, thank you.

01:09:12.78
aaronmannes
Great combo.

01:09:24.56
aaronmannes
Always thank you.

01:09:26.79
smacey
And we'll do it again sometime in the future. Awesome till next time.

01:09:27.60
Anwar
Hundred percent thank you so much for having me take it easy.