Best Ways to Build & Improve Your Social Media Persona with Trav in the Bush Artwork

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Best Ways to Build & Improve Your Social Media Persona with Trav in the Bush

May 13, 2024 • Trav in the Bush • Episode 217

Travis or "Trav" (@trav_in_the_bush), is a wildlife adventure guide from London, Ontario, Canada, who has a passion for birdwatching and travel. He creates fun, relatable, and educational content for novice birding photographers, leveraging his vibrant online presence for social media growth. As a birding content creator, Travis aims to photograph all 10,906 bird species globally while sharing his knowledge and love for birds with his audience.

In this episode, you will learn strategies and principles for crafting a compelling online persona. While quality images and videos are abundant, standing out in a crowded digital space is key. Learn how to elevate your online presence and amplify your personality to ensure that your viral content attracts a dedicated following that eagerly engages with your main content offerings.

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00:48.65
smacey
Well man, thanks for joining us today. Very much appreciate you taking the time out of your day and we connected over this this Guinness you said Guinness is your favorite beer and I'm drinking the guinness zero which is new I recommend everyone who loves Guinness go and try that if they're trying to.

00:59.77
Travis
We did.

01:06.90
smacey
Cut down their alcohol consumption. Not even sponsored I just love guinness it's my favorite be ever? Um, so today we're going to do an episode since you have a listed rate in your bio actually which I love I love when people having their bio exactly who they are that you know you make fun.

01:06.29
aaronmannes
Um.

01:10.88
aaronmannes
Um, there we go.

01:11.82
Travis
You got good taste.

01:24.61
smacey
Relatable educational content for beginner bird Photographers How specific how niche you know how important is that to just be completely. It's almost like a mission statement. You're completely dialed in so that people who find your page know this is what I'm going to get from this person.

01:42.83
Travis
Yeah, exactly it's made. Ah, it's made a huge difference and it actually has helped like not just it doesn't to just help the viewer. It actually helps me in making my contents like oh what am I gonna make today I make fun relatable and educational content for beginner bureau photographers they go.

01:53.40
smacey
Right? So it's hard to stray. That's interesting. Okay, that's great because I have that I have this exact topic I want to talk about but it's later on so I'm going to avoid getting ahead of myself with questions but the very very very first thing I wanted to ask you.

01:55.40
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:58.81
Travis
Yeah.

02:07.50
Travis
Um.

02:10.96
smacey
And I said this before we started recording is that and and multiple listeners had recommended and asked that you come on the show and were' excited that you were coming on and I know you dealt with a little bit of I don't know. Maybe you did maybe you didn't but it seemed like a little bit of imposter syndrome for a split second. That's okay, um, but to do an episode that was. Entirely about how to create a successful online persona whether that's different from who you are in your everyday life or whether that's authentic to who you are I think I said this to you, you're an excellent bird photographer of course but I would say that. You're so watchable and that's probably played an integral part in your success in growing your your account online and having more people see your work so to do an episode entirely on that. How can people successfully build I don't I've I've strayed away from using personal brand because that gives some people the ic. But just an online persona. So very first question in your opinion. How important is it to you to have an online persona as a photographer and do you think to what I was saying earlier. Is it critical that your online identity is portrayed exactly as who you are in everyday life or is it okay to have. Different personalities outside and inside the realms of social media and the real world.

03:28.90
Travis
Yeah, so for the first part of that question for me I know like I'm not I know that you brought out the imposter syndrome thing but I knew from the very beginning like I'm not the best photographer and I'm never going to be and a photo of a bald eagle is a photo of a bald eagle.

03:46.31
smacey
You know.

03:47.96
Travis
We all got 1 sitting here probably but there's 1 thing here that we all don't have and that's like each each other as an individual. So what I create and what I show is what I can make and that separates yourself from the crowd is showing who you are like that's.

03:50.44
aaronmannes
Um.

04:06.74
Travis
Even in the way I I even look at content like if ah if a video of an owl or something goes viral I think that's great like good on you. That's awesome. But I don't know who made that no idea whereas when you combine the 2 you show who you are and then you also have and then show your work. It's like oh whose work is that.

04:14.55
smacey
Hey.

04:25.39
smacey
Right? The second part was in your opinion and I mean maybe you can take both sides of this I'm sure listeners will have their opinion. But do you feel. It's okay to have your online persona your social media personality.

04:26.62
Travis
That's Travis Bush right that's kind of the way. What was the second part to that question.

04:45.31
smacey
Is it better to have it be exactly who you are in real life or is it okay to kind of take on different personalities outside and inside the realms of social media like can you be 2 different people.

05:00.28
Travis
I Think a lot of people can be for sure. It depends like that's a good That's a good question. Ah the end of it.

05:04.86
smacey
Yeah, and I'll preface this just with everyone listening like you're not an expert. Let's say like this is you've had great success in my opinion in other people's opinions in and growing your account with such a good personality and so you know I figure what better person to kind of share their opinion. So this is always opinion folks.

05:11.98
Travis
Yeah.

05:24.37
smacey
So just to take some pressure off you.

05:27.54
Travis
Yeah, no worries. Um I think eventually depending on how big you get people will see through it like at at some point like there has there's been scandals What that's happened with influencers where eventually you know or. Even like big celebrities where that's happened where they look great on their show but behind the scenes you know they treat everybody like garbage so you know if you are not a decent human but you betray yourself online as this great person eventually like that dirty laundry is going to come to the Surface. So.

05:57.57
smacey
Yeah, for sure I wonder about though. Ah you know, let's use the example where it's not a positive and a negative right? where it's like hey I'm this really funny ah person online or I'm this really outgoing extroverted person online. But. My everyday life I like to kind of be alone on a Saturday night and read a book. You know, do you think? do you think you can kind of play both of those or do you think things kind of get misaligned have you ever had that issue or are you pretty true to who you are online with within real life as well.

06:16.32
Travis
Okay.

06:31.27
Travis
No I think online it may seem like I have like ah um, um, um I'm outgoing and maybe I have a big personality and like I make a lot of like funny skits like in real life I'm not like that like in my opinion like I'm not like I'm not that funny and I'm very much introverted.

06:36.95
smacey
Right? right? Yes, you're not just yeah, right.

06:45.33
aaronmannes
Are.

06:47.92
Travis
Like big time like I do I don't like when I go to a park and there's people there I definitely get that like insecurity and I'm like I'm probably not gonna film content today or I'm gonna go try and find somewhere in the Bush where I can film this by myself because that's that's when I work best is when I'm alone and just kind of like.

07:00.69
smacey
Um, right.

07:05.10
Travis
Ideas are firing off and I'm sitting down at my desk here and just writing down ideas.

07:07.00
smacey
Right? right? So then maybe it's a chance to exercise some of those things you wouldn't normally do interesting and before I move on because I have the tendency to ask a million questions thoughts thoughts at this point.

07:13.23
Travis
Yeah.

07:19.43
aaronmannes
Yeah, no I'm I have so many thoughts I'm thinking I'm thinking wildly. Ah yeah I just I was just listening to a podcast I'm not sure honestly what it was but kind of talking about this and with success in terms of the personality that you show online. There is a pressure to continue with them. So you you do 1 thing that works out and it goes viral or semi-viral or you get a lot of attention for it. It's pretty human to be like oh like that's what works I'm gonna do more of that and I could see it for a lot getting into this sort of trend of.

07:42.76
Travis
I.

07:56.80
aaronmannes
Like you become this thing that is driven by the masses by driven by audience approval driven by audience sort of accolades in a sense and it brings you to a point where you might have to undo some things to be like oh like. Got away from who I actually really am and now I'm doing all these public speaking events or I'm I'm being noticed out in in the in the park now people are running up to me and they want to see my thing like that that could Happen. You know you have a pretty healthy following but imagine a 100000000 followers Like. You're going to be noticed at that point and it can kind of take you away from the true like you said introverted kind of quiet um doing my own thing Person. So I Do just think it is an interesting balance of that success and it pulling you.

08:48.90
aaronmannes
You know to go create content on a day you just wanted to relax and not you know? ah there is that sort of you have to feed the beast If you're not feeding yourself and that whole thing is very interesting to me too talking about being authentic versus the Persona whether it is you or not.

08:52.95
smacey
Um, ahead.

08:54.91
Travis
The out.

09:06.87
aaronmannes
Might not be the the actual truth of who you are if that makes sense like it's it's pushing you to go do things. That's not neither bad nor good, but pushing you to go do things that you might not really want to do does that make sense.

09:13.00
Travis
Yeah.

09:22.22
smacey
Well said it does it does and if people struggled they can rewind and listen to you again. I'm just teasing that was very concise I'm just messing with you very concise. Um, so moving on ah back to you know.

09:24.72
aaronmannes
And ring any bells.

09:29.54
aaronmannes
Right? right? off the map. Yeah yeah.

09:35.67
Travis
Um.

09:40.89
smacey
And I said I didn't want to get ahead of myself but here I am about to ask the question when we were talking about your bio How it kind of keeps you in a lane where you create fun relatable educational content for beginner bird photographers. So so specific. Do you like that that keeps you in a lane or is it frustrating that it keeps you in a box before I Ask my.

09:47.28
Travis
Yeah.

10:00.52
smacey
Other questions.

10:02.58
Travis
Yeah I find so there's the way I split it up is there's the depends. What I want to do if I want to grow if right now I'm like oh I'm I'm want to ah grow I'm in a growing stage I know that if I make the comedy skits. That's gonna get. That's how I follow like that's how I get so. If someone go wants to go viral I make the comedy skits. They usually do really well. Um, but it's it's a box of if I want something to perform really well I know what I can make because that's what my audience likes to see from me whereas like when I make my educational content that that never does well. But that's for my core like that's for my people that really enjoy what I make those are I what I call like my core audience. My my my people is what I like to call them like they're like the the people that love trav in the Bush I make that for them. Um, and like I said it doesn't perform well that's so I can if I want to veer off.

10:43.71
smacey
Right.

10:57.97
Travis
Just have to know that it's just not gonna do well. But I don't it doesn't matter because my core people like I know no matter what I don't think I've had a video and I'm not saying this like I'm not bragging I just know that the audience that I have I can make something and it can be garbage but I don't think I've had a video not get. 10000 views in like six months so I can experiment with what I want because I've I've been posting for years and I've built up that strong core audience that likes me so if I want to get creative and make something totally outside the box I don't have like I can.

11:17.50
smacey
Wow.

11:33.90
Travis
But if I'm like okay um I got a brand deal coming up. It's time to make I need to get those the algorithm engines going. We got to make some comedy Skits. We got to pump out some of the better photos and do some trends and really get that motor going. But if I'm feeling creative or I got an idea that Sparks. It's okay if I venture out outside because I've. Built up that core audience that are like oh this is new and weird. But okay, sure, let's do it.

11:55.99
smacey
Um, yeah.

11:57.47
aaronmannes
Where's the line between the game and the true art or passion that that's you like where's that line and how much does it overlap in terms of it seems very conscious like ah now I got to be a funny guy if I want to grow ah versus. You know someone that might be just like I like wildlife photography and that's all I'm posting I don't care about growth I'm just doing drew the best photos that I possibly can you know so where's that where's that line and how's that How's that affect you in terms of your I don't know enjoyment all over all encompassing question.

12:24.57
Travis
Yeah, ah.

12:33.36
Travis
Yeah for me. Um I will not enjoy it if I force it if I start if I will I need to force like a comedy video or something. Nope no way I Just every time an idea comes into my head I write it down and it gets added to the long laundry list of what I can make when I do need to feed the beast. That's when I have some files on my computer that I make the real basic stuff lift your camera in slow motion like I actually have files that are like me with camera photos of birds and then like mute like the music that can go with it so to feed the beast I'm.

13:00.36
aaronmannes
Are.

13:08.45
Travis
Just going to those files I'm being lazy but if I'm trying to be creative and making something I really like and I'm forcing it. It's I'm going to burn out. It's not going to work so I just whenever ideas come I'm putting those out and that's kind of where I've found that line is just never force it if it's today and I got nothing I'm not posting I got nothing.

13:16.28
aaronmannes
Um.

13:26.71
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

13:27.37
smacey
Um, right right.

13:27.72
Travis
The way it goes. Um, yeah so I just don't don't start forcing it to feed the beast like.

13:32.88
aaronmannes
That's an interesting mindset I think to like have this sort of I don't want to say cookie cutter but cookie cutter template of like these reels do decently I'm not really thinking too hard I already have all the I have the the pre. Pre-shot lifting the camera and slow mo walking through the woods in slowmo and I have a plethora of photos that I can add to the or video files that I can add to the second half of this video I can just churn these out day after they and feed the beast get to some following. Get some new questions some new Dms some new.

14:02.48
Travis
Yep.

14:06.44
aaronmannes
You know, just whatever it may be just keep it going So I don't disappear and then keep that laundry list of you know, creative ideas are like this would be a great idea, but it's going to take time and and to think it out and like sit on it and then when you're motivated to do those more creative pieces that you know may perform way Better. Or might just be for you or for your core audience. It's I like that that that sort of separation. Do you have any other categories like is there is there just someone to post a photo is there is there that category have you gone completely into video.

14:39.16
Travis
Ah, he Yeah,, there's the yeah I have ah the other category is is just too is just I take all that I have like a file that has like all my top videos. And if I know that like I need to grow right now or if I need to like really get the beast going I Just remake them. It takes too set like I just change a couple things and pump it out like reposting content at the end of the you are the only one who knows that the audience doesn't know that you just reposted something. They have no like that doesn't.

14:57.40
aaronmannes
Um.

15:10.73
Travis
I've never had somebody be like hey you've you posted this like ah yeah, you've already I've never had that ever. Yeah exact photo Great big photo.

15:11.93
aaronmannes
You already done this a boy boy Ah, do you have a do have a timeframe in your head though like you know.

15:17.50
smacey
He's a phony. He said family guy.

15:26.80
aaronmannes
I could do this anything after six months or any after three months or anything after a year I can re rehash.

15:33.93
Travis
I Don't have a specific time frame but it's it's more like what do I What do I need like if I um it's mostly only if I have if I'm doing a collab with somebody and I need to get the engines reving.

15:41.79
aaronmannes
Are.

15:53.50
Travis
Then I will just and I don't do collabs that often. But when I do it's just like Okay, let's go back remix some of those videos just to get it pumped like revvings that way when I do the collab video. There's a lot going on on my page and then it like hopefully will spike it and then the you know the company I'm working for. We can make it will do well.

16:09.90
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

16:11.42
Travis
But no I don't I don't have any anything specific but or maybe I've posted a bunch of creative things and maybe I'm just having a big flop like my videos just aren't doing well then I'll be like all right I'm going to go remake this one just to give myself a spike.

16:25.87
smacey
Right? right? right.

16:27.00
aaronmannes
Yeah, it's It's interesting to me how strategic your approach is and I think in like ah, it's a good way like you're using the knowledge that you have and you're being very strategic which to me also is very efficient in terms of your goals and what you're trying to do. Um, yeah, period. That's all I Have to say there. But yeah, it's cool and that's an interesting way to think about it I Think if you've if youve seen our my page like there not that we're similar anyways. But I do use humor at times I do use. Um, there's a really pretty video like I Just really like it here is just a photo that I really like um, but there are those different channels those different avenues and certain things do perform better than other things of course. Um, but I've never really thought of it in terms of like a strategic period of like.

17:15.80
Travis
Yep.

17:20.12
aaronmannes
I'm going to use use all my comedy photos and or ah videos and keep you know putting them out there every couple weeks even if I'm repeating just to get a huge boost before I do a brand deal or post something that I want someone to see and do really Well, That's a very strategic and smart. Way to go about it in my opinion.

17:40.79
Travis
No thanks. It's been like it's just it's sad like that just understanding that instant like social media. It's a game as much as like it's totally. It's just a game like you said you got you're feeding the beast you're just feeding them into the machine and I get it as much as like.

17:51.36
aaronmannes
Um.

18:00.44
Travis
Um, and that's only if you want to be if you want to be a content creator then that's you know that's your avenue. You don't have to do that to be a photographer a pro wildlife photographer. That's just like I'm I'm a bit of a mix and content creation is part of one of my like part of the piece of the pie. So that's the way that I've.

18:05.78
aaronmannes
Right.

18:18.88
Travis
Formulated it. So that way I can continue to feed that beast.

18:20.40
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

18:22.80
smacey
Yeah, well said, um just put a pause in this Aaron make a note of it the time and I'll we'll punch you up my next question trav can you just avoid hitting the table your fists. No race just because it's reverberating through your mic. Um.

18:26.37
aaronmannes
Um, okay.

18:30.87
Travis
Oh so yeah yeah, yeah.

18:38.57
smacey
I wanted to ask well before I wanted it before we move on I think what you're saying about segregating content is really important. There's ah you guys ever seen the Ryan Air account the airline account. This is a perfect example of a company. This instance that posts content just specifically for the purpose of being viral and then mixed with what they I would call their their brand important information for people who are actually customers that they have already funneled to their work. I think you kind of said that your brand content is your core content is that what you said.

19:16.25
Travis
Yeah, like my like the educational type of but yeah, yeah, it exactly.

19:17.72
smacey
Yeah, yes, like your funny stuff gets people to your page. We've talked a lot recently about funneling and then people like hey I like this guy and then the educational stuff isn't going to blow up like the viral stuff but it's going to provide tremendous value to people who are hanging around your page for that exact purpose.

19:34.45
Travis
Exactly Yeah and that's the same thing with photos like I post my photos like for the validation and same with the educational videos again for the validation of myself as a teacher and like just showing that I know what I'm doing and then talking about.

19:35.66
smacey
Is I correct.

19:46.33
smacey
Right.

19:50.29
Travis
And then yeah, that's exactly it and then the comedy funnels them in.

19:51.76
smacey
Right? That makes that makes total sense. This may be a silly question and it kind of I guess ties into you know what we were talking about earlier. Do you feel like the content you put out.

19:54.37
aaronmannes
Are.

20:09.21
smacey
Help shape your online personality or does your personality always influence the content first. Um, forgive me if that's not super clear but it may seem obvious like of course my personality influences the content I put out. But perhaps it's a feedback loop.

20:30.29
Travis
Does the he repeat that one more time for me second.

20:31.85
smacey
Sure so over time. Do you find that the content you're putting out changes your online personality or is who you are always influencing what you put out and then the second.

20:45.53
Travis
Um, yeah.

20:48.52
smacey
Part was that was like I could see it being a feedback loop I wish I could have like a whiteboard does that sort of make sense forgive me forgive me if that's silly I'm a little loopy. Thank you My legs are.

20:52.80
aaronmannes
Yeah, we need a whiteboard.

20:57.98
Travis
I Think so yeah, yeah, no I know um, all Congrats That's awesome.

20:59.85
aaronmannes
Um, so threaten a marathon yesterday and his questions.

21:06.30
smacey
Absolutely staple to the floor.

21:06.55
aaronmannes
Um, and then.

21:11.69
Travis
Ah I think my personality feeds into it like when I make the comedy videos I I wish I would show I should show more behind the scenes like I'm giggling to myself the whole time I'm making it even when I've like even when I'm editing it I'm sitting there just like he is giggling away.

21:20.10
smacey
Right.

21:24.67
aaronmannes
Are.

21:28.71
Travis
Like I I love it. It's like I I Really do love making that and it's a part of my personality like I make a lot of the the videos like some of the comedy ones are about how I can't stand it when some guy walks up and he's like oh you know? what's a big camera you got there like.

21:41.26
aaronmannes
Are yeah.

21:42.66
smacey
Um, right.

21:44.39
Travis
In reality. It's like it's harsher than that like I fucking hate it and I go a lot lighter I try to keep it like light I sometimes do like the odd dirty joke or swear like with my stuff but no the reality is of it. It's like oh I actually like I hate this.

21:59.52
smacey
Right? right? That's funny. Ah, what's you know? what's the response. Well first of all, do you ever have moments before you press publish where you're like f.

21:59.58
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, that's funny.

22:11.78
smacey
I Don't know if people are going to laugh at this like this This might be just an absolute bomb and what gets you through that.

22:12.40
Travis
Yes.

22:18.42
Travis
Yep, Um, yeah, no I have somers even some I'm like what's kind of risky like are people going to get like offended by that one. Yeah yeah, and I've always found.

22:25.80
aaronmannes
Um, yeah I have many drafts I do.

22:27.63
smacey
Are.

22:35.72
Travis
I'm always overthinking it I think people care a lot less like obviously like veer away from politics people care a lot less than what like they? Yeah, they care a lot less than what what you think like them. Ah the moot I don't know if you guys saw like the I posted a moose one where I called a moosea bison and.

22:37.29
aaronmannes
Um.

22:52.56
smacey
Yeah, guaranteed engagement.

22:53.61
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

22:55.22
Travis
I was expecting and I was expecting everybody to lose their minds 99% of people took the comment. The comment section's awesome. I was actually expecting people to be like oh you Moron How could you like full on attacking me. But no, it actually turned into like we turned awesome like everybody just turned into a massive joke people were calling me dumb. But then they'd be like you Idiot That's a clearly a beaver I'm Canadian and I know like that's what I kind of turned into. So yeah, if I've found anytime I hesitate I'm just overthinking it.

23:27.25
smacey
Um, right? No, it's totally fair, Totally fair.

23:33.79
aaronmannes
Yeah, it's it's scary I think putting yourself out there. Um, maybe you can talk on that a little bit. There was probably a first couple of videos where you're taking a risk and and taking a departure from I don't want to say just a bald eagle shot but we use that example before. Ah, just a bold eagle shot and saying like I'm going. Ah I'm going to add some personality to this I'm going to try to add some humor and that is definitely and a part a departure from where you were at some point and I think with that comes the fear of potential huge failure like people laughing you offstage.

24:02.61
Travis
Yep.

24:07.60
Travis
Totally.

24:08.59
aaronmannes
Give comedians a lot of credit for like their first you know show their first 5 minutes that they have to do um that takes a lot of lot of guts to feel like I can pull this off. So maybe just flashing back a little bit like what. What were the struggles that you had to go for or would you find that early success or is there 1 video that you felt like oh like this worked and this really launched my career in a sense in terms of like this avenue.

24:36.44
Travis
Yeah, it's a good question when so I I so I started when like the when when Tiktok started going big vertical video and trends like that was the that was when I got my start was just following the lip sync trends um, but the first one.

24:48.67
aaronmannes
Are.

24:54.76
Travis
Ever did really well was on Instagram and it was of ah you know I did like I forget I forget what the lipsync was but I remember the video and it was something like oh this is one of the greatest photos I've ever taken as a wild liptographer and it was an osprey shooting like just a great big spray coming right out and that took off I was like oh.

25:07.88
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah.

25:13.94
Travis
People like that. Okay, and then I kind of went with that went with that and I tried to take every single trend that was going and I'm like how can I make this Abo how can I use this trend but make it for wildlife photographers.

25:28.63
aaronmannes
Um.

25:29.10
Travis
Make it relatable to Wildlife Photographers What are the pain points and the struggles that wildlife photographers go through. Okay I'm going to use this trend and and that's kind of how it started for me. Um I never being worried about what people thought.

25:47.27
Travis
Just even after that first video went viral like nobody nobody like was being mean like nobody was mean I didn't I didn't really see that I feel like a lot of us have that fear of putting it out there but kind of like I said before people care a lot less than you think? um.

26:00.11
aaronmannes
Are.

26:05.24
Travis
Again, if it's like like yeah I just I just didn't find that um and as I kept and I just kept doing it more and doing it more and doing it more and they still learning that people care less and less again that you think and the big What was kind of the big turning. Trying to think what the big kind of turning point was I.

26:31.68
aaronmannes
Just maybe a ah cumulative success of multiple videos just you kept going and then you learn your strategy or learn your strategic moves.

26:39.89
Travis
Yeah, that was it was that some when something goes viral. That's yeah, that's when you're going to get people that maybe judge you a little bit but that's because it's pushing it out to ton of people that aren't your people the people that like you and like your content are going to say nice things.

26:48.32
aaronmannes
Are.

26:58.79
Travis
People that it's like somebody walking into a store looking around and then leaving except before they leave they have to say something. Um, yeah, next excellent and then and just reminding yourself like they would never do that to you in real life like like you, you never going to do that. So yeah and and just as.

27:04.85
aaronmannes
Um, the the internet. Yeah, you suck? Ah yeah.

27:05.35
smacey
All your stuff Shitty. Ah.

27:17.63
Travis
As time went on and on and on I just just starts do you start to brush it off, you're like k like serve vapes a lot six nine Six nine told me I'm shitty and im whatever man I don't I don't care. It's it now the thing that I've I've actually found it. Got it's gotten worse.

27:30.60
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

27:37.46
Travis
Since I've gotten bigger and it's not in the way I thought I thought I was going to I thought I was gonna have a hard time dealing with it from the strangers but it gets it sucks when it's other photographers and as you get Bigger. It's like photographers that are actually good or like have a name. And they rip on you a little bit that's that's what that's when it starts to sting a little.. It's like man I liked you? Yeah yeah, that's kind of how I found my journey to go with as it as it grew caring less and then as I've gotten bigger seeing like.

28:00.50
smacey
That is interesting.

28:01.54
aaronmannes
That's interesting.

28:13.58
Travis
Yeah, seeing these other photographers kind of yeah just I don't know if it's jealousy I don't know. Yeah.

28:15.96
aaronmannes
Well now I yeah, so so I have this photoshop theory where with wildlife photography especially you can really I'm sure words like you know the Nat Gero Geo pick where it's it's basically raw out of the camera minor minor minor adjustments and then. True to life or some true to life now I should say quote unquote true wildlife photographers will be like you can't you can't adjust that like the fine art sort of that's that's not right? You can't get into photoshop and then there's there's a percent that truly believes that and. There's a percent that tries to bring everything into our own ideals and then create you know a citadel around it like photoshops bull crap. Well you don't know Photoshop. It's complicated and it's hard. So this argument. This pedestal is very convenient for you to believe in.

28:57.86
Travis
Yeah.

29:10.85
aaronmannes
So I feel like that happened with the reals thing too. Oh screw video I'm sick into photography and there's a certain percent that believes that and there's a certain percent that was just scared of I have to learn a new freaking thing like I just don't want to so I'm going to put down and keep everyone down. You know that that isn't it's like you know Seth drinking the again is 0 me being like oh what's wrong. Do you got a problem like why can't you drink? Why can you? Why can't you hang with us I'm going to have a few beers I want I really want you to have a few beers tonight like why? Why aren't you slamming them back. You're making me feel bad because you're not doing it.

29:31.62
Travis
Yep.

29:37.53
smacey
Just damn good I've been muting my mic when I've been drinking it.

29:40.36
Travis
Ah, yeah.

29:46.82
smacey
Right? right.

29:46.91
Travis
Yeah.

29:50.32
aaronmannes
So I I wonder if there's a part of that. Um that you're sort of you're just going to get that sort of the tide's going to creep in into your life when you're doing something you're doing it successfully they might consider it like oh you're you're just you're popular because you're tricking it. You know like okay, but.

30:06.38
Travis
Yeah.

30:09.41
aaronmannes
I'm doing my thing I've always said with the with the reels like ah you go to your page and it's a bunch of beautiful cover photos like you're getting your wildlife photography out there and whether there's a video behind it for people to come in and funnel in you're just. Being Creative. It's like you having a store with great marketing or a great sign out front or a billboard and someone having a store that sucks whether the stuff inside is good. It just looks like I don't want to go in there. It looks it's in a bad part of town. It's it's thank You.! Where's the applause thing.

30:39.56
smacey
That's a great analogy. Yeah, where is it where do you have it I don't have it wait. Do I have a sound effect. Well, that's price is right? We don't want to get copyrighted here. We go.

30:42.30
Travis
Yep, that's awesome.

30:45.29
aaronmannes
I don't have it I don't have it.

30:50.96
aaronmannes
Um, great analogy. Thank you, Thank you? Um, no, but you you know like coming coming after you like our our food's better. Yeah, well your food might be better in this store but your your sidewalk appeal is like it's disgusting. No one wants to go there.

30:52.27
Travis
I.

31:08.41
smacey
Trash. Yeah.

31:10.33
aaronmannes
So figure it out but don't come over to the next store and be like your food sucks but like okay well we're trying and we're doing things right? You know so.

31:10.96
Travis
Um, yeah.

31:16.21
smacey
Could it count come in your store and yell Rat clear everyone out.

31:20.90
aaronmannes
Yeah, so I'm curious like what what kind of what kind of put downs or comments is it like is it like what I'm saying like yeah.

31:22.68
Travis
Ah, yeah, exactly yeah.

31:31.00
Travis
Ah, like the one like this this one like got to me real good and ah because again, it's like 1 of those things. Nobody's ever going to see it. The video didn't do that well because it was one of my educational ones but I made a video on just how people can find. Was like three tips on how to find owls in your area and one of my tips was you know you can use ebird and you can look and see on ebird like oh like maybe it looks like an owl shows up in this park every october or something like that. So. It's like oh maybe maybe there could be a nest there who knows you could go check it out and that's that's what I had said and I get that some people don't.

32:02.51
aaronmannes
Are.

32:08.58
Travis
Like I wasn't you know I wasn't saying here are the coordinates to an owl's nest I was just saying here are the resources you can use it to maybe find 1 in your area. Um, and ah and it upset me because it was a local guy who like I really appreciated and liked his work and he commented and just said like.

32:13.85
aaronmannes
Are.

32:27.80
Travis
Basically just like threw me onto the buses like oh you're making this for the views this is BS you don't care about the animals. This is unethical and and again it's like 1 of those things nobody will see but it was like oh man like that that sucks like I really liked all your stuff.

32:37.40
aaronmannes
Are.

32:40.97
Travis
And then it may and then it makes like me a little paranoid because it's like you know you're in the big social shirt so circles like around I'm like as you're a big group of you guys talking shit like I don't know if that's what you're willing to post about me like ah you know.

32:49.62
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

32:50.56
smacey
Um, you know what? though? do you know what? though someone's talking shit about you always there's people who don't like me, there's people who don't like Aaron there's people who don't like you and there's people who love us.

32:56.90
Travis
True. Yeah, that is true. Yeah.

32:59.63
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

33:02.48
aaronmannes
Well, that's fucking bullshit. No no, no I disagree.

33:06.39
smacey
I'm sorry Aaron it's the truth. It's true like this this expectation that like everyone has to like us or that everyone thinks we're great is not its fantasy land right? But it stings it stings when someone doesn't like us right.

33:12.79
Travis
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, it Yeah, it's yeah, it's stings when it's like somebody local that I was like man that sucks like oh well.

33:24.30
smacey
Um, so curious.

33:24.60
aaronmannes
Um, got to see you around I got to see you around. Yeah.

33:27.57
Travis
Well, all that's well, that's the other part of this story is I found it really interesting that him and I are both doing a photo tour the same exact tour on the same exact day. How convenient how interesting. Yeah.

33:34.10
smacey
You know, Nice nice. Well I'm we're going on a bit of a tangent here. We'll get back to the online persona thing and that's all right. Tangents are good I'm curious though to comments like that get to live on your grid.

33:36.14
aaronmannes
Um, ah yeah, yeah.

33:53.60
smacey
Or do they get thrown in the trash bin.

33:58.22
Travis
Um, I try not to ever delete them unless it's like something like crazy. But um, no I Yeah this is like this is I know it depends How bad it is.

34:02.41
smacey
Um, right? and.

34:03.95
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, um.

34:12.19
Travis
But if it's even kind of riding the line I'll leave it because I know people will comment on it and that feeds my video.

34:14.15
smacey
Right? I Think there's also something too is standing by if you truly believe that what you're doing isn't wrong or or in a different scenario is right standing by it and allowing criticism is important.

34:16.23
aaronmannes
Um.

34:26.20
Travis
Yeah, yep.

34:32.91
smacey
You know? ah we all see those accounts where it's like oh you deleted comments deleted comments and it's like do I Trust this person I mean how many people are in the world can do no wrong. No one everybody makes a mistake or doesn't do the right thing every now and then so I I like when I like when people keep.

34:43.37
Travis
Yeah.

34:52.48
smacey
Stuff like that up I just asked because like you said things can be super, not nice and vulgar and I don't I think like stuff that's that negative doesn't deserve a place to so to sit on your on your digital in your digital space right? If people are just being it.

35:06.15
Travis
Yeah I just like to sorry to cut you off there I just I just like to I'm big I like David goggins a lot and something that he says is you know if somebody you know bullies are mean but some sometimes when they say something and it gets to you. There might be a little bit of truth behind it.

35:10.15
smacey
And go ahead.

35:15.27
smacey
Um.

35:24.27
smacey
Um, right.

35:25.62
Travis
Like I kept it up because I like it made me really think I was like you know it was I wrong here was I unethical and I thought about it long and hard and I was like you know what? no I believe everybody has a right an opportunity like everybody should be able to see an owl in their neighborhood and if I help them get there and got them outside like I think that's awesome. So I'm like no my.

35:40.52
smacey
Um, right.

35:43.19
Travis
I stand I stand by it I don't think I was wrong but I do appreciate that it made me think and I find that some of the ones that do if they do sting a little bit I do have to sit back and be like all right is that just hitting my ego am I upset about that or or you know was I was I wrong here. So.

35:44.73
smacey
Very yeah.

35:53.20
aaronmannes
Um, right.

35:54.18
smacey
Right? That's very um, self-aware. It's good to see good for you. Good you to hear that are good. Ah, but good to hear you say that the other thing about goggins as well since we're on that topic. Ah, he also.

36:03.47
Travis
Here.

36:11.83
smacey
Doesn't allow negative comments to sit under his videos if they're going to harm the people who are there to get better or learn right? And that's to what the other side we were talking about. It's like get it off my page if it's really harmful.

36:18.74
Travis
Of yeah yeah.

36:26.42
Travis
Oh I Totally like if somebody's doing something like yeah if it's something crazy I've never I've never I have never thankfully experienced that where somebody's put something at least not that I've seen or been aware of but.

36:29.85
smacey
Yeah, yeah.

36:36.59
smacey
Right? Well, we've been talking about you know how to all these things to build an online persona strategies for viral content versus core content and I guess it kind of begs the question. How are you measuring your success or. Impact is it I made 10 people laugh today is that I got thousand new followers I mean what's your bar.

37:06.69
Travis
Um, so for me, my bar was a 100000 and now it's time to like make money essentially now it's time to capitalize on my on my audience. Um I got don't want to be greedy now the content that I make.

37:12.67
smacey
Fair.

37:23.70
Travis
Is like I'll feed the beast if I have a collab but now that I try and make more of my content like I still like I just I like to I do like to post every day because I like it and as long as I like it I'm going to keep doing it. Um, sorry I went on a tangent there.

37:39.12
aaronmannes
Um, no.

37:39.57
smacey
Um, no, it's okay, just like what's your what is your measure of what's your metrics for measuring success or that you're having an impact is it like you said is it followers is it change daily. It's I made 10 people laugh today I mean.

37:40.32
Travis
What was the what was it repeat the question for me.

37:48.50
Travis
Oh.

37:56.88
smacey
I Guess I guess in a more general sense. The question is what am I doing this for all this strategy All this educational content is it just to genuinely help is it to genuinely help and you know monetize all my hard work I mean this is a touchy not even this is a.

37:59.56
Travis
It's yeah.

38:05.90
Travis
Oh okay, yeah.

38:14.70
smacey
Have a firm stance on this subject where people get upset when people monetize those people need to grow up I'm sorry like oh my God you're doing ads on your podcast. It's like I do this stuff for free. You know I make or if you're you I make bird videos to help you take better photos for free.

38:18.50
Travis
Yeah, yeah.

38:25.78
aaronmannes
Yeah.

38:32.74
smacey
You know, no one's forcing you to pay for this if you wanted to pay for a workshop or you wanted to sit through a thirty second ad thank you I guess I just have a personal bugaboo when people get mad about creators who monetize after all the hard work they've put in I think part of that is because they don't see that.

38:32.96
Travis
Ah, yeah.

38:40.19
Travis
Yeah.

38:41.30
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

38:50.23
Travis
Yeah, no so yeah, good. Good question. So like my I have like a big like I want to do this for like my entire life. So I have like a big kind of life goal like for this small 1 right now. It's like I want to get to 100000 and now I want to build up my. My core audience and I do want to monetize but that's not like my main goal of course I still want to make I want to make a living office because I love it. Um, but my my big overall goal is to somehow I do want to make an impact but something I always think about and it's the reason my content is the way it is um.

39:08.96
smacey
Right.

39:27.45
Travis
Always think about myself when I was younger and that's kind of who I'm trying to make content for and who I want to do things for um because like I think of myself. When I was younger growing up in the city and want to take a photo of a grizzly bear but never having that opportunity. So now that I'm there and I've had that opportunity and I can do that I don't want to and that's the reason I do birds is because it's relatable to everybody. So.

39:45.49
smacey
Um, right.

39:58.10
smacey
Um, right.

40:01.77
Travis
Guy that kid that's in the city. That's you know, just watched a nature documentary about whales. They're like oh man I always wanted to do that. That's my overall arching goal is to somehow get that person a camera in their hands and get them outside because the more people that I can get with a camera and outside. More they're going to have an impact there more they're going to appreciate nature and hopefully want to save it and that's where I think that's kind of my overarching goal is with my comedy skits and things people see that they laugh they like it and you know like I kind of want to like I kind of want to pick up a camera now you know and. Even though I said I do want to monetize my goal with that is to have different stages of that monetization. My big tours. That's my big money. That's you know I'm charging people thousands to go out but then I want to have a little online subscription base where it's more affordable for the everyday person and then I want to do something that I do for free. That people can have access to me if that's like just a walk around bird tour in my area or something like that. So why I have stages for every income and a way to get everybody outside that also I can still make in income.

41:06.78
smacey
Yeah I think what's important is people forget that you monetizing allows you to do more of what you do afraid.

41:07.63
aaronmannes
Are.

41:17.18
Travis
Yeah, totally yeah, it that it that yeah it benefits them. Um like I the online program I want to make I want to have different coaches come in and so like you would be like you subscribe to it and then. Like I would bring like 1 of you guys on like for the month and you'd be like the monthly coach. But then I also get to pay use the more people that subscribe the more coaches I can bring in like and so it's all going to funnel back like to the subscriber things like that.

41:42.33
smacey
Right? right? It makes total sense total sense. What are some of your best best practices for engaging with your audience I mean do you have a method like hey I should dedicate 30 minutes today to talking to people and commenting on things I like on the explore page and answering Dms or is it kind of just all done.

41:44.66
aaronmannes
That's very cool. Good idea.

42:01.79
smacey
Willy Nillly here and there when you feel like it is I guess is it more structured or free flowing with how you engage with your followers or people you follow, etc.

42:13.11
Travis
Yeah I do from every day from special about from 9 to 10 is like online. That's when I do my post usually is around 9 am um and then that's when I engage so about an hour of engagement that's like comments pardon me.

42:22.28
smacey
So you have office hours. You have office hours this concept of office hours I've been hearing more creators. Do.

42:29.24
Travis
Yeah, yeah, so it's from about 9 till 10 and that's when I do my Dms I do mostly my comments so I'll comment on yesterday's video it's that way that people will see that and then they'll see the new video posted and then hopefully like that video and then so that's usually how i.

42:47.59
smacey
That allows for a lot of discipline too to not get lost in the in the digital world. It's scrolling I like that you know here's an hour of my day. This is what I'm doing and this is all I'm doing I think that's that's been very helpful for me.

42:49.80
Travis
I Do it.

42:55.91
Travis
Oh yeah.

43:07.25
smacey
And know people want to hear from you so we'll get back to you talking. But that's just been very helpful for me in structuring days. It's like right now I'm answering emails I'm not I don't have my texts up I'm not watching Youtube videos at the same time like I'm I'm doing this one task and then I'm moving on to the next one and I'm moving on to the next one I feel like we try to do too much at 2 1

43:22.47
Travis
Yeah.

43:25.99
smacey
Too much all at once you know.

43:28.23
Travis
Yeah, totally like I've I actually just learned that myself like learning doing this full time I can't do the I was just talking about that with my partner this morning I can't do like the oh from except for that for the posting thing from 9 till 10 I can do that but the rest of my day has to go to like a specific thing I can't be like okay from. 12 to 1 that's doing this from 1 to two doing I can't do that I have to be full on totally like today was making content today I'm making content at my computer editing everything. That's it.

43:50.67
smacey
It's your whole day is committed to something right right? So that's interesting so where I'm doing the ten to eleven is emails and I'm breaking down in smaller chunks. You're saying well my Monday is emails.

44:02.17
Travis
Now.

44:07.76
smacey
Or my Tuesday is content I think you're it's the same thing just in a more macro sense. Very cool. Aaron.

44:09.18
Travis
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

44:15.48
aaronmannes
Yeah I think that makes sense I think depending on what you're doing. You have to be more structured or less structured um depending on what your priorities are I know Seth and I our priority often is is this show and the things that go along with that. So sometimes our personal Instagram are a personal brand. Falls by the wayside because you can only do so much so you just got to kind of prioritize and make a system for what you're what you're trying to do I think it makes sense completely to to divide time and and figure out where you're going to do things so you can. Sort of see it times. A nice little structure that we've created where you can see it on paper. You can see a day and figure out well there's I don't know twelve fourteen units where I'm awake in a sense 14 hours let's say and I want to spend 2 of those a seventh. Of that time connecting or building content or like whatever it is. You can kind of break it up and see a nice. Yeah I guess kind of like a a healthy balance. You can see with other things too taking a walk taking a hike going for a run rowing lifting weights eating well reading. Taking a nap. Whatever it may be. You can kind of see it out on paper. Love naps it's my age but I'm loving naps. Um, but but yeah yeah I think it's good to to break things down and and take a look for sure.

45:30.95
smacey
I took one of those today.

45:35.31
Travis
Same.

45:43.91
smacey
Yeah, for sure so back to the if someone's listening and this is really inspiring. They're like yeah like I take really good photos but I just kind of blend in with the crowd because I don't and harshly I'm going to say this I'm not interesting enough. Right? outside of my photos. What are some questions or exercises. Do you think Photographers can do that can maybe help them work out who they want to be or what message they want to convey through their online presence like I call it your mission statement is very very specific I'm going to make. This content for this person is it as simple as that or are there other questions and exercises people can maybe do the ones who are listening saying I know I need to I know I need to be more interesting or more captivating but I don't really know what direction I Want to go.

46:26.15
Travis
Yep.

46:41.60
Travis
Yeah, um.

46:47.50
Travis
I think I would lean I would lean into what you I think some some folks don't think like oh like you said like oh I'm not interesting enough. You know I don't have grizzly bears around me I only you know I got a tree that has a bunch of chickadees be the Chickadee guy they go.

47:03.90
aaronmannes
Are.

47:07.42
Travis
Like or that's that's it. That's that's your thing then if you're not interesting. Great thousands other people millions other people are thinking the same way lean into that. Oh I like that could be your thing right? there. Oh I want to be I want to be a grizzly bear photographer but I live in New York great show that journey I bet a lot of other people want to see it like would love to see that how did you make it there show that journey so lean into like what you think isn't interesting probably is to ah like a lot of other people because it's relatable like it's raw. It's It's true. It's not like oh like yeah if you're already people want to see the journey if people want to see the underdog make it right? If you're the if you're the wolf on top of the mountain already. It's it's kind of boring. You're already. There. So yeah, if you think you're not interesting or something like that. You think you can't do it. You can and you probably.

48:02.39
aaronmannes
Are.

48:02.59
Travis
Probably have the thing already. You just haven't like just haven't looked hard enough and something that I did when I first started was I just took my phone and I talked into it or I turned on the camera made sure I couldn't see myself talked into it talk to my but my favorite movie.

48:07.20
smacey
Yeah.

48:20.84
Travis
Anything whatever you want? whatever your most favorite hobby is talk about it. Don't even look at it and delete it right away do that a bunch of times. No I can't remember if that was like back when the like Casey Neistat blogs were big. It was from like that kind of era somebody said it I can't remember who.

48:25.10
smacey
Um, where did you learn that is this your original idea.

48:40.69
Travis
Um, but that's yeah, that's what I That's what I did and I and made a bunch of stuff that I never posted I just made the video um just of like to actually talking to the camera.

48:43.75
smacey
Um, and that made and that made you better in what area.

48:55.67
Travis
And just putting your even though it's like you're not putting yourself out there online yet. You're still, you're still almost there. You haven't proud. They just haven't shown it to anybody. Um, yeah, no risk just.

49:01.29
smacey
Yeah, there's no risk.

49:02.83
aaronmannes
Yeah I think I think of a band's first album is usually I mean if they're popular a band's first album is usually pretty damn good and I always think the reason is because of the thousands of gigs that they played that no one heard.

49:19.28
Travis
Yeah.

49:20.25
aaronmannes
The the small place is the hundreds of recordings that they recorded and then they pick the five best of those hundreds to build on and then another hundred recordings and then they picked another 5 and now they have an album out of you know thousands of songs that they've tried to write. Ah. And I think it's the same thing for anything. It comes down to putting yourself out there and practicing I will never forget this one moment ah playing golf with a friend. They wanted to try it for the first time. Golf is an incredibly hard sport at the driving range. They did not find success big surprise on the first day. And we're like this is not for me. It. It never will be it never will be if you quit on the first day and I think that's for you know, recording yourself or video yourself or editing photos or making videos or being funny or creating a joke or telling a story. Whatever it is takes a lot.

50:03.13
Travis
Yep.

50:16.39
aaronmannes
A lot a lot of practice to be very good at it and it doesn't matter if you're not, you don't think you're interesting or you don't have interesting content to show you you do if you do if you can. Everyone's life is interesting in some sort of way if it's true and you have a way of displaying it.

50:29.92
Travis
Yeah, yeah.

50:34.44
aaronmannes
And the practice of displaying. It takes just practice. It really does. So if you feel like it's not interesting like and that's not that's not the stop.. The stop is that we're just not Going. We're not, We're not Pushing. We're not doing it. Not doing as much as we possibly can to find success.

50:54.82
smacey
What's and what's funny is I'm glad we went down this but that's not even what I meant by being not interesting enough. But I'm glad that I'm known listen Listen I'm glad you guys took that perspective because there's a lot of people listening who are in that boat.

51:00.52
Travis
Oh.

51:00.94
aaronmannes
Um, well what the hell.

51:08.80
smacey
I was more so of the mind and we can talk about this now shifting gears a bit. Ah yeah people who maybe have great content. Great travel content like air quotes visually interesting engaging stuff but they're not, they're like we said at the very beginning. There's a.

51:11.55
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, it's good who.

51:28.70
smacey
Bald Eagles are interesting but there's a million and a bajillion photos of them online which makes just posting a bald eagle photo not that interesting if you see them all the time. What I meant was people who have really cool things to share that most people don't see every day but they're not. Personality or the way they're their way they're trying to get it out. There isn't making them stand out in an interesting way does that make sense because there's there's 2 that's a that's a different category of quote. Not interesting like you're not being captivating.

51:53.10
Travis
M.

51:55.94
aaronmannes
Um, this yeah.

52:01.54
aaronmannes
Yeah, this podcast has shit on Bald Eagles so hard last like 4 episodes that is our example of like screw Bald Eagles

52:03.28
smacey
Despite having really cool stuff.

52:04.99
Travis
Yeah.

52:15.73
smacey
Well we have to because there's one pinned on Travis's Instagram page. So there's also a hummingbird and I believe a quail set a quail. So let's use Hummingbird or quail for the rest of this.

52:20.36
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah is is funny. Yeah now Bald Eagles are sick. They're awesome. Yeah, no Seth I think that I think that's a very good question and and listen.

52:20.72
Travis
Yeah. Yeah,, there's a Quill.

52:36.22
aaronmannes
Some people are funnier than others. Some people have a way about them. Some people are amazing. Speakers have ah some people just have an English accent and you're like fuck they could say anything and I just I love it. Um, we all have certain strengths I think something Trav said was like keying into.

52:45.12
Travis
Now.

52:55.22
aaronmannes
What What is your little thing. What is can you can you incorporate music into wildlife photography. Can you write songs about It. Can you like what is your little thing that's creative and different and even slightly different even maybe 1 ah 1 in 1000 you know like. Every thousand There's another one of you but you're you're slightly different than the most and you can kind of show just a little something and be confident with it I think that is a huge hurdle.

53:25.76
smacey
Um, right.

53:27.16
aaronmannes
Which is tough to get to where you're like I'm actually I'm confident with this uniqueness or I don't take this too seriously like I'm not too hung up on social media or who sees me or who comments like I'm going to go for it. No matter what it is and I could fail I could burn and fail I could I could. Completely bomb on this joke I can I can send something out there and no one gets it and people are questioning in the comments and you're like this humor is did not work. Ah, a.

53:54.46
smacey
Well again, you get back to the reward being the posting. Not the result.

53:56.88
Travis
Ah, yeah, yeah.

54:00.11
aaronmannes
Yeah, and then you you just stick with what you what you feel like hey I want I want to show this I want to show this to the world. This is my little corner I want to I want to put it out there. Um, and you see where it goes I think it just takes a lot of practice I think.

54:08.60
smacey
Um.

54:15.60
aaronmannes
Thought process of saying I'm not interesting or I don't have anything to share your kind of shot yourself in the foot a little bit if if that's the language that you're saying because you're going to go into it. You're going to make that first video with that voice in your head like this is stupid. No one's gonna like this this is gonna bomb and.

54:31.43
Travis
M.

54:34.80
aaronmannes
I think more than anything humans are like amazing at reading energy like we don't even know it. But we're really good at feeling energy like you walk into a room of 2 people fighting you know, immediately like oh shit, what's going on here like something. There's a tension here like we feel.

54:46.72
Travis
Yeah.

54:49.86
smacey
A.

54:52.88
aaronmannes
We feel stuff not to get too woo. But like we feel stuff sometimes and I think it comes across on video of like that person's very sure of their situation I don't like that joke or whatever but like they're confident. You know So I think that's a huge thing.

55:05.79
smacey
Um, well so um, just we have all our bases covered for people who are listening I'm going to be difficult and dig even deeper the person listening who's like I know somewhere in there I have.

55:13.31
aaronmannes
Um, good sounds great.

55:17.59
Travis
Um.

55:19.96
smacey
Something interesting to say or show and I want to but I can't figure out what it is like how do what steps can that person take like are we are we capable to to figure this one out here or is this is this more left to. You got to figure it out on your own.

55:38.23
Travis
Well, that's the fun part. That's the fun far because that's when you just get to create everything you just go out. You just make you got you got that idea for that funny video. Oh I think that one's going to be good, but it's not related to what I'm doing do it I made when I had my wildlife photography page. There's videos that never.

55:41.77
smacey
Um, okay.

55:56.76
Travis
Nobody will ever see I made videos on my wildlife photography page of of myself. Um, they were like cookie battles. So it would be me and yeah, so it would be.

56:08.14
aaronmannes
Go on.

56:08.87
smacey
Um, it's.

56:13.49
Travis
Me doing something like just living my everyday life but then hearing something and turning and seeing a cookie and then I would do like a slow mo of me with a banana on my hip and then me looking back at the cookie and the camera and the camera looking at the cookie and then the camera looking at me and then I would go down to the banana and the banana be gone. Then the banana would be with the cookie and then the cookie would shoot me and I and I made a whole series of that. So. That's where I started and I had a whole series. Yeah.

56:35.70
aaronmannes
I. Ladies and Gentlemen. So that that's that's my point is there's really bad humor out there and you just sometimes got to go you got to go with it to find it. You got to go with it.

56:49.36
smacey
So I think you I think you answered with that great story I think you answered my question for the person who's like I I want I know I can be interesting I have things to say I think the answer was there was a fun have fun right.

57:03.40
Travis
Yeah, make it all you and yeah, totally.

57:07.21
smacey
Like this is fun to me I think really great artists don't I mean I'm going to try and I don't want to I don't like tiptoeing around things really great artists I feel like traditionally make things for themselves selfishly that they love.

57:08.72
aaronmannes
Are.

57:22.31
aaronmannes
Yes.

57:22.89
Travis
Um, yeah.

57:23.79
smacey
I Think in this day and age We also have to be aware if we care about certain things like growth. There's a game I have to play to but you can find the balance and I I feel like especially in the beginning the focus should just be on I should just.

57:27.65
aaronmannes
Um, right? yes.

57:30.94
Travis
Here.

57:42.57
smacey
Comfortable having a camera pointed on me pressing record or I should just get comfortable committing 20 minutes of my time sitting out hoping to see wildlife or I should you know, just get comfortable talking to people if I want to improve my networking or relationship building skills. As opposed to worrying about what's going to perform with the masses I feel like that's a secondary concern.

58:07.65
Travis
Yeah, that's a good point. Those soft skills are more important than the hard skills. Yeah like get rid take the camera away and everything building up those soft skills are so important knowing how to just talk to somebody.

58:13.33
aaronmannes
Um, demo.

58:19.14
aaronmannes
Are.

58:21.87
Travis
Those little networking skills like that's kind of number one you can be you can teach yourself how to talk to the camera and make content be like all that can be taught soft skills are hard to teach those are the hard ones.

58:30.90
smacey
Um, what soft skills come to mind for you that are important and hard to teach are that you think you think are invaluable.

58:31.60
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

58:38.63
Travis
Ah.

58:39.76
aaronmannes
Being on a podcast and being able to talk I can't tell you how many creators and content creators that make either very personable on screen and we've asked hey do you want to come on the show and they're like I'm not good like live I'm not good speaking on speaking publicly.

58:55.12
smacey
People would be surprised.

58:58.83
aaronmannes
Like whatever, whatever the excuse it happens many a times and maybe it's an excuse. Maybe they're busy and they don't want to just say No thank you? maybe? but it seems like a somewhat of a common theme for that to be a fake excuse of just like yeah those soft skills like I'm not going to present. Well. I Think that's the fear like I'm not going to present. Well if I don't have full control over the editing the lighting the the the cut the scene. Ah, the lyric the R I'm sorry the you know the what's not lyrics but like the way I'm speaking right? Ah yeah, Narrative Whatever may be um.

59:25.27
Travis
Are.

59:31.43
smacey
The narrative the the same.

59:34.40
Travis
Yeah, um.

59:37.10
aaronmannes
So yeah I think that is really important and you do develop that with practice no matter what the the genre is and putting yourself out there.

59:46.43
Travis
Yeah, totally like of the soft skills that come to mind is just exactly that like can can you meet with a stranger and just have a 1 ne-on-one conversation and it just be lighthearted. Nice fun. You're able to read the room read that person what they're like you can tell by talking to them. What. Should I say what shouldn't I say what triggers them? What doesn't trigger them like just that's ah like that's a hard thing to learn like if you can do that. That's even just somebody that works in customer service. Do you work out as because a cash register hey how are you? Oh pretty good you good know what are you getting today? Oh great. Okay, ye see you later have a good day. Can you do that like some people can't do that. Um.

01:00:18.00
aaronmannes
Um, amendment.

01:00:20.24
smacey
Um, right.

01:00:25.70
Travis
And the way I think of that I just I worked as a guide like a multi-day hiking in ckayaking and I did dog sledding for years before I started doing this and that was the big thing was like you can a lot of my bosses who I worked for were like we don't care if you don't know how to kayak we don't care if you don't know how to hike we can teach you that you're gonna be out there in the wilderness for nine days with strangers. Can you talk to them for nine days can you keep them entertained like that's more like that skill will take you a long way because if you're making sorry go ahead.

01:00:45.48
smacey
Um, yeah.

01:00:49.39
aaronmannes
Our soft skills are our our soft skills doomed in the in the near future with everyone staring staring into a phone and trying to make me me me content and not really looking out to.

01:00:49.54
smacey
Right.

01:01:06.24
smacey
Are.

01:01:07.47
aaronmannes
And not everyone of course. But how how do I improve the world versus an overarching. How do I become famous. How do I become an influencer. How do I get popularity online um are are we I guess back to the question are do you think we're.

01:01:15.11
Travis
Yeah.

01:01:27.80
aaronmannes
We're in trouble with that in general.

01:01:31.97
Travis
Um, we could be but if you learn those soft skills you're gonna be way ahead of everybody else. So.

01:01:36.80
smacey
I guess it begs the question Aaron is your question even relevant in a completely digital world where there is no interaction I mean we're way off topic here but did you say yes, it does matter.

01:01:45.70
aaronmannes
Dikes.

01:01:49.27
aaronmannes
Yikes. So I said Yikes yikes.

01:01:49.48
Travis
Ah.

01:01:52.10
smacey
For for real I mean if for people who love little philosophical debates here here's a little 5 minute tangent but does it even matter if everything is digital and we're a virtual so you know like a virtual hybrid species and everyone interacts digitally through text and neurallink and all this stuff does our soft skills like are they even. Do they continue on. Are they maladaptive at that point are they even necessary in taking up brain space I mean you could you could get into that argument right? like 50 years from now right? How many people do that.

01:02:21.68
Travis
Ah, yeah, you could it could be like handwriting or writing and cursive today like when your teacher was like and great. Yeah, nobody writes it like who you write your signature. That's it. Yeah, oh that's it's a good question I don't I don't know the answer.

01:02:23.85
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah.

01:02:30.12
smacey
Right? Or soft skill. It's digital soft skills How to convey proper tone textually you know I mean you know? Yeah, how well can how well can you prompt. That's where we're heading.

01:02:32.00
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:02:38.58
Travis
Yeah, yeah, yeah, can you write a good text. Can you I guess could you can you write? Still I guess would be still a good one. Can you write a good email or yeah, yeah.

01:02:38.67
aaronmannes
With emojis.

01:02:49.76
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, bullshit. Ah.

01:02:49.78
smacey
So whatever you know it's okay or and we're heading. We're gonna be a new species in 100 years so homo sapiens will. We'll see if this age is well for when I'm dead and people stumble upon this episode.

01:02:58.51
Travis
Yeah.

01:02:59.73
aaronmannes
I'll be going.

01:03:05.21
Travis
Yeah, but.

01:03:06.14
aaronmannes
But yeah, we'll check back in 60 years yeah wow we got ah that's just far away from the center. That's just far away from the center. That's.

01:03:09.55
smacey
Check back in hundred yeah sixty hundred years are we a new species hybrid anyways and like this is where I would have a drink but my Guinness Diro is none. Ah.

01:03:20.86
Travis
Um, yeah.

01:03:23.70
smacey
We've talked about like yeah who are some other creators that you like to embody or that inspire you you think publish their content really well. It's always like I mentioned there was a lot of people looking forward to you coming on the show and I am someone who always says it's important to look up to who the person you look up to looks up to right. Um, so who else in this space is exciting to watch to you and see what they're working on that maybe people can go check out can be of any size. Really.

01:03:53.87
Travis
um I'm um I'm a little biased but like he because he's become a good friend of mine but some what wild vandermeer or Jared Vandermeer I've got to know him on the island and got to know him pretty well and.

01:04:00.15
smacey
Um, that's okay.

01:04:11.10
Travis
It's just he's pretty pretty incredible to watch and see what he's done like he was one of those guys when Tiktok came out he started as ah like the creative photographer doing you know, different phone things and stuff like that and he built up a massive like million follower following and now he switched to wildlife and that's where we've connected and just.

01:04:26.50
aaronmannes
Are.

01:04:29.81
Travis
Seeing it like the knowledge. This guy has on so like for socials and how he's like oh I'm going to be a wildlife guy and just three months later he's got ah like close to seveneth k followers like just casually because he just knows the game. Um, yeah, he's been a pretty. Pretty good mentor to me and somebody I'll look up to and then wildlife photography wise I'm a huge fan of yan wagner I believe in pronouncing that right? He's a guy out of Australia. Um I like a lot of the way his photos look and the way his bird photos look I kind of like to project his style onto mine his backgrounds and. Are a lot different than mine. But I like to have like just the clean, buttery colorful backgrounds that's kind of what I go for with him and then um. Been awesome I love that you guys had him on the podcast but watching Ryan and watching that kind of uprising that was so cool to watch that was awesome. It was cool that he's a local guy here too which is pretty sweet like it. Ah.

01:05:23.74
smacey
Um, yeah, yeah, what do you mean by it was cool watching that uprising as someone spectating like like let's dig into that a bit.

01:05:25.79
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:05:35.77
Travis
Yeah, cause it was like I started followinging when he hit 4000 followers and like that so it was just cool to be like oh he's at 204060 we go. He's an 10020 like he just kept like that the social mediateorizing and then I loved his post when he made it there in though like and. And those three weeks when he's like oh I may I got 100 k followers in three weeks but I've been doing this for 7 years like this wasn't overnight success and I love to watch that and I love to see that journey that he had that is like yeah okay, you guys are all seeing that I'm an overnight sensation but not really like.

01:05:58.49
aaronmannes
Are.

01:06:10.55
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:06:12.53
Travis
Look at the guy's work. He's incredible. It just took a second for the algorithm to pump it out and for people to see it so it was I Just that's what I I Just loved watching the totally.

01:06:18.27
smacey
And some effort right? and some commitment to right right? right? What do you say to people who are listening who are because we've had this a bunch of times where we have some listeners who are like I just can't relate guys when you talk about social media and growing and I just they say I Just don't get it. You know.

01:06:23.80
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:06:35.18
Travis
Yeah.

01:06:37.29
smacey
What do you say to that.

01:06:39.68
Travis
Eat The trick is you just can't stop. It's not oh, that's okay, totally totally yeah who it depends what you want to do like.

01:06:42.30
smacey
No, but I mean like people who say that they I just don't care like guys who cares about social media like who who cares about a hundred k and who cares about all this and like right.

01:06:51.24
aaronmannes
Um.

01:06:56.91
Travis
If if you if you're not into social media. But you're like oh I want to be a pro wildlife photographer. You don't need to do social media. You need to learn business skills then and learn how businesses operate and how that and how to grow it that way and how to grow it organically outside of social media but you don't need social media to do whatever it is that you want to do? It's just a tool. It's a tool.

01:07:12.64
smacey
Um, but could leverage something else.

01:07:16.21
Travis
At the end of the day. Um, and if you utilize it? Absolutely yeah like if you're just chasing followers. You're not and you think that's going to make you money. It's not going to make you money. There's people out there like there's people out there have 500000 followers that are wildlife photographers or like filmmakers that like.

01:07:25.88
smacey
Um I guess it's yeah.

01:07:33.32
Travis
Don't actually do it professionally in any capacity. They just look it online.

01:07:34.66
smacey
Right? right? Yeah and I mean I guess this this kind of rewinds back to our conversation when I was saying you know what are your metrics because you're right I mean 20300 for what like if it's that's not the that's not the it's not the.

01:07:34.77
aaronmannes
Are.

01:07:47.55
Travis
So yeah.

01:07:53.16
smacey
The be all and end all like that's not the the checkered flag. It's how can I use this to do something else which I feel people who listen to this need that weekly reminder often. Not everyone. But I think it's good to you know? okay like what am I doing elsewhere outside of this that makes. This posting 3 4 Times a week worthwhile useful.

01:08:16.64
Travis
Totally unless it is what you talked about like unless it is just a passion project nothing wrong with that great and you just happen to get a big following because of that and you're like Wow this is incredible. Awesome. But if you're somebody That's like I want to be a pro wildlife photographer I need a million followers like no, that's not what a pro wildlife photographer is like.

01:08:19.77
smacey
Correct correct.

01:08:21.80
aaronmannes
Are.

01:08:25.49
smacey
Yeah.

01:08:33.43
aaronmannes
Now.

01:08:36.14
Travis
It gives you the validation but the validation of what like what? what are you doing with it.

01:08:39.69
smacey
I mean like a pro and anything. The first thing is I need the product I'm producing or the service I'm producing needs to be the best it possibly can to my ability and then people need to know about it like I need to market it and this to our conversation I need to be creative with how I get that out there.

01:08:42.40
aaronmannes
Um.

01:08:54.89
Travis
They go.

01:08:59.49
smacey
To Aaron's example you can have the best food in the world. But you're a hole in the wall as a restaurant. No one's walking in but you put the sign outside with great artwork and good marketing and advertising people come in and they realize whoa. There's something cool going on here right? I think we can all really for those of us who.

01:09:03.60
Travis
Yeah, yeah.

01:09:11.64
aaronmannes
Are.

01:09:18.42
smacey
Frustrating and we're like oh we want to grow I Want to grow I Want to grow. It's like where's your sign outside the door right to kind of I guess I would summarize or encapsulate our whole conversation here.

01:09:23.32
Travis
Yeah.

01:09:30.48
Travis
Yeah, yeah, exactly you don't need if you if you have a product to sell and you like you and you have a core following of 10 like one thousand like I think what is it? there's riches in the niches or something like that like that's the yeah, it's it.

01:09:45.48
smacey
Um, I've never heard that it's funny.

01:09:49.76
Travis
That's that's what that's all you need you don't need the big the big number unless it's something you're chasing but to actually be successful. You don't need that at all.

01:09:56.93
aaronmannes
No, we often talk about we are our buddy Adam Coppola it's like 800 followers not thousand Eight hundred thousand just eight hundred followers on his Instagram and you know rocking in 6 figure deals. Um for for.

01:09:58.80
smacey
Um, right.

01:10:02.28
smacey
If that.

01:10:09.78
smacey
Multiple.

01:10:13.97
aaronmannes
Just you know, creative endeavors um, professional photography Videography. What have you like that's where his focus is. It's not on growing in social Media. You know so it's just wherever your focus may be just have a have a a plan have a strategy. And try to utilize it and leverage things to your advantage. Whatever it may be. That's it. Yeah.

01:10:36.21
smacey
That is it that is it Well Trav Lastly, it's a piece of advice. You would give your younger self.

01:10:45.14
Travis
Mine would just be to never stop foot on the gas pedal. You can let off a little bit but just don't ever stop keep going if you stop it's over just remain consistent. Keep going.

01:10:55.91
smacey
Well said man well said man I know Aaron mentioned it in this episode. Um I want to turn this on me I just I mentioned my legs are glued to the floor because I just finished my first marathon and I had this exact thought like I don't know what mile but I was just thinking man.

01:10:58.30
aaronmannes
Um, great.

01:11:13.49
smacey
Some people who are running this in two and a half hours and there's some people who are running this in 6 hours but everybody who doesn't stop crosses the finish line which I was like ah man that's so awesome. Everybody who didn't cross the line.

01:11:22.14
aaronmannes
Are.

01:11:22.37
Travis
Exactly.

01:11:31.71
smacey
Stopped for whatever reason medical or just meant to willpower and it's exactly what you just said I mean keep going some people are naturally speedier or more gifted in certain areas and get there quicker and it's frustrating if you see those people and compare it to yourself. But.

01:11:33.66
aaronmannes
Are.

01:11:45.76
Travis
Yeah.

01:11:48.74
smacey
Think the only way to ensure you don't get to where you want to go is if you stop. So so appreciate you trav appreciate you Aaron had a lot of fun I learned a lot and um, just appreciate your time and thank you for coming on all right.

01:11:51.45
Travis
Exactly.

01:11:53.24
aaronmannes
Um, that's right, Yeah, you too.

01:12:02.19
Travis
And no worries I Really appreciate you guys having me. It's been great. Yeah, take care.

01:12:05.96
aaronmannes
Take care.

01:12:06.93
smacey
So next time guys.