From No Experience to Booking Several Clients in Under 1 Year with Taryn McCabe

In this episode we're joined by Taryn McCabe (@tmcc_photography). Taryn first joined us last year on our 2023 TPM Retreat with extremely little knowledge of photography. In less than a year, she's gone from complete beginner to someone booking over a dozen clients. We have her on to get her perspective on how she's been able to generate business for herself with limited experience, limited portfolio, and small follower count. Taryn also helps generate and create the short video reels for TPM on our social media pages.

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@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

INTRO:

00:00.00
smacey
Hello. Hello and welcome back to Photograph for Mindset podcast. Sometimes we got to break the chain. So I Just want to see what you'd say if I screamed hello at you. Hello Welcome back to an episode of photograph for Mindset Podcast I'm your co-host Seth Macey.

00:04.33
aaronmannes
May ears.

00:16.48
aaronmannes
And I'm your co-host Aaron Mannes

00:18.44
smacey
What do we have today? What's this episode who is this episode for.

00:24.86
aaronmannes
Who's this episode for I think everyone can take something away from it I think there's a lot of little nuggets of that that really does make sense. These are some barriers that I face these are some roadblocks that I have with my photography. Whether it's improving whether it is trying to get gigs paid gigs create a business. Whatever it may be whatever we're waiting for get out and do it I think that is the the tidbits that you're going to get from terran.

00:54.35
smacey
Yeah, we had taran on who we usually have very experienced high Instagram often high instagram follower count photographers on the show who have a lot of knowledge and experience and time in this industry. And we had the pleasure today of having Tarin on who you work with at your school but who also picked up photography under a year ago at our retreat in amfin jasper she knew nothing about photography really, she was still learning the iso aperture and shutter speed triangle the days before she arrived.

01:29.26
aaronmannes
Um, and.

01:31.75
smacey
And in less than a year. She's booked what a dozen clients.

01:35.29
aaronmannes
Yeah I think at least give or take not a full-time job like Seth said we work at the school together but being able to take that skill and promote herself and create opportunities for herself which opportunities create more opportunity.

01:54.20
smacey
Um, right.

01:55.12
aaronmannes
So I think it's just a lesson in putting yourself out there not being afraid of failure just going for it with a little bit of a reckless abandonment and figuring it out as you go.

02:04.40
smacey
Yeah, and so and yeah as someone who has less than a year's experience and who is getting tons of gigs and who you know is making great headway I think it should be inspirational and encouraging for especially beginners and our intermediates listening that you don't need a ton of stuff to.

02:12.86
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

02:22.24
smacey
A ton of accolades to be able to acquire the business you want to acquire you just need to be honest and need to ask and you need to do it in quantity so without further ado let's get into our episode sorry I got to change that without further ado let's get into our episode right after a word from our sponsor.

INTERVIEW:

00:52.68
smacey
That's fair. That's fair. So what are we thinking for an episode today is Taryn our um poster child for killing it from scratch. I feel like you've been shooting for so longER but it was only it's less than a year.

01:04.00
Taryn 
I know it has been well I was thinking about that I think it's been a just about a year officially from when I first pick that my might of bad. Yeah I do.

01:10.27
smacey
From looking at the little triangle of Iso Aperture and shutter speed to.

01:18.15
aaronmannes
Her Notepad Do you have that Notepad still.

01:23.66
Taryn 
I Do have my notepad.

01:25.16
smacey
To ah to doing gigs that's crazy. You're working way faster than I ever did I'll tell you that tell you that much. Um, so this will be a fun episode Taryn thanks for coming on. We've mentioned you so many times I think on this podcast and you would know that because you listen.

01:29.83
Taryn 
Yeah.

01:40.69
Taryn 
I Listen to every episode over and over and over.

01:42.92
smacey
Hopefully you do hopefully you listen to a million times Taryn makes the social clips. The little reels that I post if they're not that great. It's because I haven't posted them that well they're always great that tarran the way she makes them so we're really grateful to have you as part of the team. And we thought it'd be a good episode Aaron fill in any gaps that I'm missing here to to have you on and talk about going from zero like we just mentioned knowing literally nothing beyond your beyond your iphone I guess of how to take a picture to.

02:13.90
Taryn 
What.

02:21.49
smacey
Booking clients and gigs. That's really impressive I hope I hope I'm embarrassing you. That's.

02:21.99
aaronmannes
Yeah I think that's I think I think that's the interesting part for sure and and and that's the focus of the episode is that it has been less than a year and going from. You know the confidence to or maybe no confidence on like how to even take a picture exposure. Get it right? What's composition. How do I upload things. How do I use Lightroom to booking I mean ah I would say a dozen give or take from from what we've discussed a dozen paid gigs in a year and balancing like a full-time job. It's not that she's you know, full into it. It's just kind of on the side. But I think that's an interesting and ah good lesson in terms of um I'm curious your thought process on feeling worthy enough to get money for photography feeling like you can ask that? Ah. What were the successes. What were some of the pitfalls. What were some of the you know maybe I'm sure you made some mistakes or ran into some walls just come. You know from flying blind in a sense and no fault of your own just you're just so new at it. it's just I think it's fascinating went straight to like I'm going to get paid for this a little bit and been very successful at it.

03:38.60
Taryn 
Yeah, those a lot of questions in one where do I start? Yeah, um, yeah I think my mindset for everything is I didn't have a mindset which is maybe ah a good thing for me I didn't think about anything before going into it.

03:40.84
smacey
Good. Yeah.

03:41.40
aaronmannes
That's what I do.

03:55.93
Taryn 
Um, and I kind of think about what gave me the courage to be able to start to reach out to people. Um and just ask for gigs and I think a big part of it was the fact that I wasn't huge into Instagram when I first started I sort of was learning photography while I was starting. Instagram at the same time so there wasn't a ton for me to compare myself to which I think helped me a lot I think now when I look at Instagram and everyone that's on there I constantly compare myself and am aspiring to be what I see on there but I didn't go in. Having that in the beginning so it gave me the confidence to just ask people because there was nothing that I was going off of in the beginning which I think was a good thing for me.

04:38.72
smacey
Yeah Wow I'm going to jump in right there because I've told this story before about I'm just relating to you big time because the way I started photography was pre Facebook It was just a friend of mine and myself and we were He started this.

04:49.60
Taryn 
No.

04:58.19
smacey
Project about taking a picture every single day for three hundred and sixty five days of the year it was a friend about my cottage and um, there wasn't a ton to do always in the summer on super hot days and stuff and so I really dug in with and we figured how can we just be creative and have fun and maximize our creative and just work out our creative muscle to the maximum of our ability without. There was there was this this digital era didn't exist. There was no instagram to compare ourselves to it was just thinking that we were awesome and taking great photos even though a lot of them sucked and but just being so excited about being creative and what's interesting with what you just said compare.

05:28.66
aaronmannes
Um.

05:36.69
smacey
Comparatively to what I just said is I literally didn't have a choice to compare anywhere I mean I could go look at a national geographic magazine or I could walk into an art gallery sure there was literally no space online I don't even think the smartphone maybe iphone had just been revealed the very first one. Um, but what's interesting about your story is that Instagram and other social media platforms very much have a foothold in the digital space as you're learning and it's almost like you were able I don't know if this is on purpose or by accident to have the discipline to say hey I'm not going to look at that I'm just going to focus on having fun getting better. Whatever that looks like to you and I'll pop into this digital world every now and then to share my stuff maybe get inspired but it seems like you were very aware early on as a beginner starting at 0 that this is something that could be dangerous I'm just going to have some fun am I right? wrong where have I got that.

06:32.14
Taryn 
Yeah, know that's definitely definitely right? I think too I just went into it thinking the worst case scenario is they they'll just say no and I've had a ton of Nos but if that's worst case scenario that's not super scary.

06:34.30
smacey
Sort of close and sort of not.

06:50.24
Taryn 
To me to just be turned down over and over and over. Um, you just need 1 person to say yes and give you a shot and then from there I just started to build you know 1 person said yes and I find especially because I do mostly cabins you know I'm doing a little bit with some other businesses but a lot of cabin hosts know one another. Um, so I think that that sort of helped me you know the first place that I had she was had a sister who also had a cabin so that got my foot in the door for that one? um and it it just it snowballed without me realizing that it was snowballing. Um, so.

07:24.55
smacey
Right? right? I feel also I've only known you from our trip to ah Jasper our last Tpm retreat which is I guess where you were kind of you were very very new Aaron had just loaned you his old camera.

07:40.59
smacey
Had just sent you that diagram we talked about with the iso aperture and shutter speed. But and and I've talked with Aaron we've mentioned a lot of times we've got to have tarran on talk about her success story in under a year and just how much headway you've made. Hopefully it feels like you have made headway because.

07:40.98
aaronmannes
No.

07:44.10
Taryn 
Um, yeah, you know.

07:57.27
smacey
You have often when we're in our own heads. It feels like we're not really getting that far. We're stuck. We're not moving as fast as we'd like to be so I guess hearing things like this is reassuring. But from the conversations I've had with Aaron and what he's told me since you guys converse daily right? you both work same school. It sounds like and. Again, correct me if I've got this wrong or maybe you have the better take on it I'm sure you do that? A lot of your the yeses you're receiving from clients even as a beginner as someone with no portfolio stems from being terribly honest hey like hey I'm I'm brand new. I'm willing to learn I've studied I've practiced. This is the small portfolio I have to show from myself I know I'll do a good job I'm capable I may not be the best in the world but I can do this is that sort of the message you're trying to put out as a. Very very very beginner photographer trying to get clients or is it are you trying to finesse are you trying to say the right thing. What is it for you.

08:59.90
Taryn 
No in the beginning I I really said I have no idea what I'm doing I've just started this and it it was a hobby for me in the beginning. Um, and you know I've I've had conversations with Aaron when I was first getting into this of sort of the etiquette of you don't It's not always great to just go shoot for cabins and not get paid for it. You know there's other people in the industry that that impacts so I was very firm in the beginning of if I'm not getting paid for it I feel like I'm doing a disservice to the rest of the cabin community by not getting paid. But that's obviously hard for me to.

09:30.10
smacey
Um, first but.

09:33.30
Taryn 
Say you know I want to be paid for this but I have 0 experience and nothing to show you to prove that I can do it? Um and I I think I do think that people respected my honesty in the beginning I you know I think I I am very personable and my I come across Genuine. Because I'm blatantly honest and the few people that you know I attracted that part of it got me those gigs and then I was able to get a little portfolio to keep pushing. So Yeah I Definitely think people relate to honesty and and want to give people a chance that are being upfront about.

10:01.73
smacey
Um, right.

10:09.78
smacey
Right? What was the response when you said I literally have no idea I'm sure you didn't say I literally have no idea what I'm doing but you probably mentioned you know I'm inexperienced my portfolio isn as larger the other people you've talked to what's the do most people just not care I mean how people listening may be going that doesn't make any sense. How are you getting.

10:10.75
Taryn 
Where they're at.

10:28.32
smacey
Gigs like what kind of people are booking someone with no experience. You know how is did you have anything to show. What's the response back from people is it I Guess people just must be vibing with you in the very very early stages as you work your way up.

10:30.66
Taryn 
I.

10:43.21
Taryn 
Yeah I am still asking myself that question I I don't know what makes people go go with me um, over other people you know I I imagine I'm because I don't have the experience and I I don't get cabin's exposure I don't have a ton of followers. So I think a lot.

10:58.49
smacey
Um, right.

10:59.30
Taryn 
Right? Off the bat say no I think when I give them my um Instagram to look at they look at it and it's a immediate write off. Um and I know that so I don't know what's what's making them say yes I think I'm probably cheaper than most off the bat because I don't have that experience. So I think right now that's working for me. Um, and I've pushed myself to kind of up my pricing a little bit and it's hard because again, there's a chance they say no because I'm still inexperienced but I wish I had the answer for you as to why people are going with me I'm not total.

11:27.00
smacey
A.

11:33.33
aaronmannes
Well I think if if I can put ah a theory out there I think you you surfed a wave that most people will skip and wait for whether it's a better opportunity or or more of a portfolio or I need 5000 followers before I ask. Like they create these um narratives or these fake sort of like stop points like I'm not going to ask for money until I have 10000 followers like that's ridiculous or I'm not going to ask for money until I do 10 free ones I I think you're missing out on this these numerous waves of. You can surf. You know, hypothetically where you can say like hey I'll do this for I don't have a portfolio I like to build one I I trust my talent enough that I can get you some good stuff I'll do it for a really decent price and I think that's probably what's attractive. They're not They're not. You know they're not betting the farm on you. They're saying like all right I just got a good eye or you know look at our little Instagram page at that time and just be like let's give her a try. We have the opening why not and then you you build up and you're able to get to a point quicker where I think a lot of people would hold back and be afraid of the no. Be afraid of people laughing them out of the room like that's the fear. Um, where you were like I'm just going to ask a hundred people and see if to say yes you know and and you were not afraid I think in the beginning to ask a lot of people and and broach the subject of like hey I'm new I know you're taking a chance.

13:08.20
aaronmannes
This is what I can do and like do you want to work together. Want to give it a go and even if a hundred said no and 2 said yes those 2 had sisters like you said or whatever it is and then they have friends and.

13:17.50
Taryn 
Are.

13:21.24
aaronmannes
It just it builds from there. So you caught a wave where most people would just I think be waiting in the water.

13:28.66
Taryn 
yeah yeah I think too I try to be a little bit strategic on the ones I'm reaching out to um I I feel like I try to find airbnbs or cabins that are similar to me where they're they're great, but they don't. Have a huge Instagram they they have a couple pictures that aren't the greatest and I'm sort of like hey I'm new in this you seem like you don't have a ton going on yet in the social media realm like let's kind of be teammates and guide each other through it I think that um is really nice to those those cabins that don't have.

13:58.47
aaronmannes
Smart.

14:06.61
Taryn 
12000 followers or 20000 followers um they're small in the beginning I think we kind of meet each other where we both are which is nice.

14:12.89
smacey
Right? I like to I Always like to remind people too just because you're talking about the cabin photography genre. We don't necessarily not everybody listening necessarily is involved in that genre but the principles are the same. You know if you're a car photographer videographer reach out to the small dealership that just is local.

14:23.35
aaronmannes
You.

14:29.14
Taryn 
But.

14:31.92
smacey
Or if you're or that small startup makeup brand if you're into you know, portraiture and stuff like that I just I like to remind people don't get caught up in the genre we're talking about because the principles are the same I will say this as well. You very much went from. Beginner to intermediate advanced pretty quickly with the quality of your photos from composition just to lighting a basic understanding I'm not going to credit you and say that's just talent like you don't like it's just an innate talent where I'm going with this is how did you. In my opinion what effort and hard work. Did it take what assets what resources did it take kind of for you to build that that eye quicker. It's Aaron. That's why all right? next question.

15:20.49
aaronmannes
It's the reason I get 20% on everything that she does it's because of the the endless questions that I had to answer? No no.

15:22.74
Taryn 
Um, oh oh.

15:27.39
smacey
Next question. Well whatever like even with your joke if there's some truth to that asking questions I mean let's dig into it. How do you? You know you can't theorize good pictures. You can't just think and study and watch Youtube videos is it simply repetitions I'll leave it with you.

15:42.63
Taryn 
Yeah, definitely find somebody that you can ask a million questions to and they answer the million questions and don't act annoyed I will give Aaron a little bit of credit on that I've I've asked him for help a lot.

15:53.32
aaronmannes
Type it.

15:57.23
Taryn 
Um, as I've been sort of going through the process of learning and he's been really great on answering silly questions that I should probably know the answer to by my fifth paid gig because I did like I went from learning to I have I'm getting paid for this. What do I do? um.

16:12.30
smacey
Hey we all still leave the lens cap on even 1015 years into this every now and then so.

16:18.70
aaronmannes
Yeah I won't embarrass with some of the questions I I do keep a log though of those questions.

16:19.93
Taryn 
Um, um, yeah.

16:24.29
smacey
No, let's let what? what are some of the questions. Seriously I'm interested to know like what are in your mind I'm sure you have maybe 2 3 or 4 maybe 1

16:36.46
aaronmannes
Yeah, here's here's a great just analogy I think of of Taryn you know when you run down a hill and your legs are like ah like you're you're going so fast that you're about to dig it. But yeah, yeah.

16:45.32
smacey
Like the people who chase the cheese wheel have you seen that.

16:48.44
Taryn 
No.

16:51.15
aaronmannes
You're you're just running downhill so fast that your legs can't even keep up with how fast you're going. But even if you fall you're still beating everyone that's being careful like there. There is a little bit of a reckless abandonment with with what she does and it's it's surprising and I've had many moments where she asked me a question I'm like. Jesus you're confident if you don't even know this like you're just going like what was the thing about Lightroom where it was like it was light. Room's complicated I guess if you're just starting off like the cataloging and keeping track of your files and it was just like um we're about a year in and she was like.

17:14.40
smacey
Um, yeah.

17:30.40
aaronmannes
Where are my photos even like I can't even find them and I was like how are you? How are you organized and like it was just and again it's only a year in and you go so quickly doing other things I think sometimes you miss out on like the things that people take their time to like I'm going to really. Do three weeks on light room and study that well she's like hey can I have a gig I'll figure out lightroom later like that sort of thing. Um I think that's happened a lot and it's only because she's like flying through it and like just just going for it and more of like I'll shoot first and ask questions later like I will.

17:52.84
smacey
Um, right.

18:05.99
smacey
Um, right.

18:06.26
aaronmannes
I'm going. Ah I want to just go for this and I feel confident enough and smart enough. Maybe that I can like I can back and I could reverse engineer anything I have to like this is not a sport where it's It's Reflexes. It's like there's Time. There's a lot of time to edit there's time to hand in your deliverables. There's time. At the gig to get the photos that you need. There's like space in between a lot of these movements and I think she utilizes that super well which is I mean kind of just an interesting thing I've always been like I better be a professional at this before I ask for the most part and.

18:39.60
Taryn 
For her.

18:44.37
aaronmannes
Um, or at least like super confident in my whole process and I think that's just been a lesson of like you know, go for some things sometimes and say yes and then figure it out.

18:56.58
Taryn 
Yeah, it's funny. We keep using the word kind of confident I feel 0% confidence still um there was but yeah I guess but and I again I think I go back to I I should stop saying this about myself I just don't think things through a lot.

19:01.87
smacey
Inside though.

19:14.43
Taryn 
I'm like let me go do it and then I'll think about it later and that's that's how this whole thing started I just thought about it That's I That's my advice to everyone stop.

19:19.37
smacey
I Don't know why that made me laugh so much. You know what though this is a great lesson like think about it's reminding me of immersion I think I've used this example before when I went to.

19:25.39
aaronmannes
This might be a good lesson. Good lesson though. Yeah.

19:35.12
smacey
Before I was going to Spain I was like I'm going to do duolingo every night for 20 minutes and by the time I get there I'm going to be able to like order stuff and you know ask where the beach is and all this stuff and I get there and I'm frozen but after a week or two just thrown into the mix. It's figure out spanish quick or.

19:45.71
Taryn 
Oh.

19:54.94
smacey
You know it could be a sport like I I can watch every Youtube video on how to best kick a soccer ball. But I'm going to learn the fastest by just going out and kicking it and missing by twenty miles for the first hundred kicks I think that's kind of what we're talking about.

20:09.14
Taryn 
Yeah I think you miss out on things in life by thinking too hard about things Sometimes you know you you think and think and think and then you're missing the whole opportunity versus I just threw myself into it and I thought about it later I learned about it after I don't know and and I don't know if that's the best strategy or if that's.

20:24.61
smacey
Um, write it.

20:29.70
Taryn 
Smart of me but I I tend to be I I shouldn't say I used to be an overthinker and I think I missed out on a lot from overthinking things. So my approach with photography is to think less if I'm enjoying it. And there are there are components with photography. You have to learn you have to think you have to figure out the process. But I think if I had spent so much time overthinking it I would have never done it. Um, and that was sort of my strategy and still is.

20:57.40
smacey
Okay, perfect. So you said you're somebody who used to overthink and you missed out on a lot Now you're practicing photography and it's an opportunity to continue working on that skill of not having analysis Paralysis is what I call it? how.

21:13.80
Taryn 
Click.

21:16.95
smacey
People listening who are like I overthink everything again I'll caveat this. You're not an expert but in your experience That's a pretty self-aware statement to have just said I really overthought things I missed out I'm doing this thing I'm not Overthinking. It's working for me. What are some tactics. Do you even know or is it.

21:39.00
Taryn 
False confidence. Um I Just think the mindset needs to be the worst thing that happens is a no in in this case, if you're going into whatever your genre is wanting to get paid for it. The worst case is somebody says no. Now. There have been a handful of people that have gotten angry at me for the way I have reached out. Um how it's been.. There's been a couple for me. Yeah, mean mean to me. Um.

22:01.94
smacey
Um, oh t.

22:04.74
aaronmannes
Shuck in the corn.

22:08.79
smacey
Um, angry. Wow. Okay.

22:10.12
aaronmannes
Mean.

22:14.91
Taryn 
So and I don't mean to keep going back to cabin photography but I feel like that's all that's my genre. So for me, there's a lot of Airbnbs or cabins that don't have social media so there it's a hard way to reach places if they don't have a place that I can kind of.

22:19.43
smacey
Um, that's fine. Yeah.

22:33.92
Taryn 
Enter into so I started reaching out through Airbnb which is a big no no I'm really throwing myself out there ah to some which my my initial reach out is just hey I don't see you on social media I see your stuff on here I'm just trying to get in touch. No big deal if you're not interested. And a lot of times. The response back is no blake. Thank you so much good luck in your journey and you know keep it rolling. There's other people who have felt like my approach in reaching out was to trick them or to. Force them to have to answer because it would impact their response in airbnb and I don't know the backend I don't know if if you don't answer somebody's message on Airbnb and if that impacts your rating as a yeah so there have been people who have felt like I was trying to play the system.

23:18.29
aaronmannes
Truth does.

23:27.18
Taryn 
Um, and have gotten upset about that.

23:31.65
smacey
Um, you're gonna leave it that okay, interesting. Well I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm going to still rewind even if you don't want me to still rewind well but here's the thing Listen I mean you said that.

23:41.22
Taryn 
I Don't know if I have an answer to it.

23:49.36
smacey
The worst thing in this instance about overthinking could be well I Guess a you miss out on even shooting your shot and B you get told a no right there you go but I guess I mean in other areas of life. You said you missed out on things.

23:58.72
Taryn 
Or somebody that's angry at me. Yeah, that that's probably worse than the now I Guess yeah, um.

24:06.42
smacey
Feel free to take your time or if you just don't want to talk about it. That's cool too. But I mean being reckless can or I mean I mean if we sometimes we can think if we're we're overthinking to prevent injury right? like I'm not going to jump off I'm not just going to I'm jump off this fifty foot cliff because just I don't want to think like there's consequences to that right. There's potentially financial consequences for for not thinking and just I'm going to put all my money in bitcoin and I'm going to have no savings. Um, there's you know, like there's lots of different things that can happen. So I mean thinking and and analyzing things is there to protect us right? Naturally. So. I'm just more curious I really want to figure out a way to dig into this. You said that you missed out on things. Um, and that's a very ah that requires a lot of thought and contemplation on something and it's just interesting that now you're able to do. Something practice photography where that doesn't exist and I'm trying to bridge the gap if that makes sense.

25:08.85
Taryn 
Yeah I guess I'm thinking of it in terms of hobbies that I have maybe wanted to try in the past um in feeling like I didn't I didn't have the drive or the skill in the beginning to start it.

25:17.76
smacey
Um, okay.

25:28.46
Taryn 
So I didn't even do it because I didn't think I had it in me. Um, and I think part of photography is it at least in my experience. It does quiet the mind I feel like I don't think a lot when I am doing photography.

25:29.70
smacey
Um, okay.

25:45.24
smacey
Um, right.

25:46.70
Taryn 
Which is something that attracted me to it in the beginning. It's just kind of you and whatever you're looking at and it it did quiet my mind. Um and in the beginning I didn't pick it up saying I want to go run with this and make an Instagram and and get gigs I just wanted something to sort of quiet. My mind.

26:03.37
smacey
I.

26:05.25
Taryn 
So I didn't I didn't look I didn't think I needed to overthink for Guitar. For example, if I wanted to get a guitar I have to figure out the best guitar to play I have to figure out all of the chords before I do it I Just I picked up the camera to quiet my mind and I think I've just sort of. Continued running with that.

26:24.20
smacey
Right? Like you can pick up a camera and just kind of start as a guitar maybe requires more theory. You can't make pretty sounds without having some kind of thought process it sounds like photography is meditative for you. We talked about that a lot having having hobbies or even our profession.

26:31.45
Taryn 
Yeah.

26:43.59
smacey
Where the action produces a still mind for me that's running my feet on the pavement. There's nothing like it's just I'm having to think about my time pace. All that excuse me all that stuff. But everything else is still I think a still mind is really. Really beneficial just for our our health and you know overall wellness.

27:06.62
Taryn 
I Think we can talk.

27:08.00
aaronmannes
Yes, f and to to tie your your thought and your question together I think in present day if she were to overthink or if anyone out there is overthinking certain things you're creating these again these um, these false like. Speed bumps these these fences where it's like you know what? I'll reach out after I have a year of practice I'll reach out after I have 2000 fall like you make up these things that maybe are procrastinating the fear of being rejected or the fear of failing or the fear you're putting it. You're making it safer for you by pushing it kicking the can down the road whereas I think she realized like in this case scenario like I'm going. Ah I'm going to go through this and the worst that's going to happen is that they're going to say no or maybe they don't like my stuff I'm new. So if they don't like my stuff that makes sense because I'm brand new. Ah, it's not it. You know it might hurt a little but it kind of makes sense and I'll just learn from it and improve and not take it. So personally I think if you overthink you miss those potential again. The the sister cab in that. Had she did a good job now she has another gig now that gig spreads onto another like that all would have been missed if you're waiting for the right moment the right moment to.

28:31.73
aaronmannes
Approach the girl the right moment to apply for that job the right moment to have kids like whatever it is if you're overthinking it. You might miss what's destined for you not to be too like you know woo woo. But like I think that's the thing like she just kind of didn't have any of those. Fake barriers.

28:53.18
smacey
Um, so question for both of you then we'll start with Taryn here. She's our guest is there an optimal time for anything right? like is there an optimal time to start anything or do anything that's extremely. Extreme impact on your life or is worthwhile I've been thinking about this a lot recently like is there a perfect time to do that thing or is there because because if you if you are of that belief and that isn't so you run the potential of just completely missing the window. Like the perfect time never comes I guess is sort of the theme of what we're talking about. Maybe I just summarized what you said Aaron but it's a thought I've been having a lot recently and I'm curious to know your thoughts on it. Both of you.

29:32.21
aaronmannes
Um.

29:34.78
Taryn 
1 I think there's certain I think yes and no to that photography. Whatever pick it up. Try it if it's not your thing. It's not you know there's certain things in life I think kids comes to mind when people think about having kids. It's like I need to save enough money. Or I need to make sure I've traveled to every single place that I need to go to and I don't think those things ever happen for people I don't think you ever have enough money I don't think you've ever enjoyed all of your free time so there are are certain things that i. I think you need to think through I would not take my approach to not think about anything when it comes to photography but I I don't know I don't know if there ever is the right moment does that make sense. There's a way to be smart but also do.

30:22.28
smacey
Um, a.

30:26.20
Taryn 
What you want to do because life is short and I you know not to get too deep but I lost a parent at a young age and I think that was a huge impact on me to you know at sixteen years old that wow life can be taken really quick from you and that was a huge shift for me to just do what you want to do. And be smart about it. But it is short which I know is so cliche but it it is and I think there if you want to do something you should go full force into it.

30:53.86
smacey
Yeah I think that's more understandable when it's impacted you firsthand you know for someone like me to hear life's so short I I haven't had that experience that you just mentioned I'm I'm thankful for that and I'm sorry that happened to you but I feel like taking.

30:58.75
Taryn 
Yes.

31:11.94
Taryn 
Prince.

31:12.90
smacey
Knowing that firsthand drives it home like you just said right? So I think we have to take it from people like yourself who've had those experiences like that and have faith in what you're saying is true because I and I imagine it is.

31:28.51
Taryn 
Yeah, and I mean you guys have had ah people on here who really have talked about those moments had in life and I I think that's important for people to hear because people that maybe haven't experienced those things and the guests you have had on here and their stories are you know 10 times more eye-opening to me than.

31:30.15
smacey
Yes.

31:44.37
Taryn 
Losing a parent not to compare one to the other. But I I think it's hard for people to understand how short things really are and if you have a passion and something you want to try just go for it. Um I think should be the lesson or the takeaway from that and that's why should think less.

31:59.89
smacey
Um, yeah, right? But the important part too in what holds people back is thinking that they should be good right away or there should be some sort of standard to be upheld to right away in the realm of photography to go full circle to disturb our conversation.

32:02.68
Taryn 
That's are like.

32:10.65
Taryn 
Um, you know.

32:15.19
smacey
Instagram is the bane of that existence right? You see all these crazy photographers and you think that's where I should be It's so irrational. But for whatever reason it's just it hit it toxically. Embeds itself in our brains I mean I think what the important part of what you're just saying is is let's just do stuff and be awful. Let's suck you know and and going in with that mindset's important I mean when I so I haven't boulered in a long time when I started bouldering.

32:37.63
Taryn 
Um, Mark let's miss it. New.

32:46.21
smacey
I thought I'm like a pretty athletic guy I'm pretty fit pretty strong, pretty athletic. Most of my life I can't even do I can barely hold on and then you have some little scrawny kid just rip through this thing and you're like wow I'm brutal and it comes down to bracing being awful in the beginning that's kind of. I think I've mentioned this concept a lot on this podcast and I don't know if there's tactic to this to getting to this place but just being like yeah man I'm awful. This is great I'm so bad I'm so bad. But I'm willing to learn I'm willing to get better I like seeing improvements I like knowing where I came from I'll look back celebrating my wins and I'll enjoy the process I guess like. I don't know how to teach that I don't know if either of you do ah maybe it's just hearing it so many times so maybe Aaron and myself coming on weekly and telling that over and over and over and over again helps because I don't I don't think it's something you can really learn and just theorize.

33:32.21
Taryn 
Um, but.

33:40.70
aaronmannes
Yeah I think anyone that has learned an instrument learned skateboarding or like Bmx or tricks on a bike ah learned in artcraft like anything that you you There's almost impossible to be good right? off the bat like one of those skills. And you can't just get I can't give my son a guitar and he is like oh you're really talented like there's there's 0% chance. But if he sits and goes through it for months and months and months he will make improvements if he gets past that beginning part. My dog's squeaking in the background Do you hear that.

34:15.38
Taryn 
Is agreeing.

34:16.27
smacey
Caps Excited caps working hard at getting better at squeaking toys. You want to roll you want to pause all right? yeah.

34:17.51
aaronmannes
Yeah, gave him a squeaky toy. That's great. That's great. He never uses the toy except if I'm on a podcast. Apparently no, it's fine. It's fine. Listen we all have pets. We love dogs. Ah but I'm getting passionate. So I I think I think that's 1 thing. That's how you you teach it. I have friends that I've tried to introduce to golf and after day one they're like this is impossible. Um, and they never do it again and that then they will suck at golf forever you know if you get through that sort of like.

34:48.73
smacey
Are.

34:49.91
aaronmannes
Maybe you look at it as a challenge like ah this is frustrating I feel like I could should be able to do it. Golfs are perfect and bouldering's very similar like I'm strong athletic. Why can I not climb this wall where this 10 year old can do it. You know? Ah, but. It makes you go like I I feel like I should be able to do this and you it's a challenge then it's a puzzle that you have to undo I think that that is part of it being able to get through those things without the sort of ego taking over and it's like you suck you're embarrassing yourself. Everyone's looking at you. Everyone's laughing at you at the driving range or at the climbing gym. Why are you even here this kid can do it. You can't do it like that's the the inner talk that makes you just run for you know comfort. That's the bottom line like I'm going to run for comfort and not put myself out there.

35:40.22
smacey
Um, yeah.

35:41.86
aaronmannes
I don't remember Tarran if like the first 20 people you asked said no maybe at the first hundred said no, you might be like okay um, this is not for me I guess ah, but like you you keep going to a point you keep pushing through. And you break a barrier now you got that gig and now it's the next thing now you're in at restaurants now you're doing like other things you're you're experimenting with it. You're still finding your style and like who you are even as a photographer but you're able to like leapboard off these levels and you might plateau for a little bit but then you leap. Leap to the next step and you're like oh I never could do that before now I can you just keep on kind of going with it and not be afraid of the you know 2 steps forward 1 step back sometimes it's 3 steps back but you just keep on going and and working through that sort of like. That beginning suck. You're going to suck the beginning. Yeah boom. Thanks cat.

36:38.42
Taryn 
Thank you for that? No and I you said something in there that I was going to say earlier you know going to the driving range and and sucking and people seeing I think that was a really good thing about photography is you can suck in silence. Like you can be really bad and not like nobody's seeing all the pictures you're uploading into Lightroom in your process of getting to that final product of a picture which I think was really appealing is that if you are worried about performing the best or looking the best or putting out your best you can do it. You can craft it silently until it's ready to be put out and I think that was a big part I think about when I've tried wakeboarding or snowboarding I would always get discouraged because people are watching me fall time after time after time there isn't as much of an audience. Um, when you're working on your craft and photography which I think was something that. Was really appealing to me too.

37:32.60
aaronmannes
That's a good point.

37:32.12
smacey
Um, yeah, except when you get up on the wakeboard. Finally, everyone's like yes when you know and that's to it's this weird. We set this false narrative in our head that people are judging us and laughing.

37:36.89
Taryn 
Um, yeah, yeah.

37:46.87
smacey
I Know for myself I'll speak for myself. Let's say this happens often when I see let's say I see somebody who's really overweight running outside and I'm driving my car I'm like hell yes, they're getting after it good for Them. You know I mean Or. Somebody at the bowlering gym who just keeps following. Usually it's me. But if it's somebody else and they just keep going back. Keep going back for more and more I'm like hell yes that gets me so excited and I like ah guarantee you most people who have a good who have a good energy are thinking the same thing I Mean. People are a lot nicer than you think and this is coming from someone who's usually pretty cynical but I think it's important to surround yourself with those people as well. Um, that are going to cheer you on just for doing stuff.

38:40.96
smacey
If you're running a 15 minute mile and it's your hardest effort. That's your hardest effort. You literally can't do anymore right? And that's something to be proud of in my opinion.

38:46.58
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, and if you keep doing it. You will then be a 14 minute mile and then a 13 minute mile and until you're until you max out true. Yeah, there's a we have a kid at school who.

38:47.22
Taryn 
Yeah.

38:57.16
smacey
Which is still maybe slow right? But it's incredible.

39:04.98
aaronmannes
The alternate program and he literally plays a lot of basketball. He went from playing 0 basketball to playing a lot of basketball for many many many days. He is one of the best shooters in our school and he's never played a game of basketball. It is hours of practice that.

39:17.92
smacey
Right.

39:24.82
aaronmannes
Just he did not have before it's hours and hours of practice. It's it's pushing through it. It's not the first day you shooting and been like I miss 10 of my you know 11 shots I quit I suck at this. It's hours and hours of shooting threes and like it's It's ridiculously impressive when you watch and you're like you've never played basketball. he's like no and he's like I just played a lot this year and it's like oh well that makes sense like we've talked about it many times. There's there's nothing that can replace doing it and getting out there and. And trying and putting yourself in situations time and time again that are maybe uncomfortable. Maybe put you in a bad spot. But you have to push through and you learn from those mistakes you learn from the the airbnbs that are mad or you or maybe I got to rephrase that a little bit or. Go in knowing that or whatever it is you learn from those uncomfortable crappy situations. Um Taryn had a moment where I had the same moment early on and which I'm I'm not you know I haven't been along forever. But I had a very distinct style when I started. Very blue and I ran into some problems when I started getting into client stuff where it's like we like your style but it's like so it's just too dark. It's too. Gloomy. We're trying to sell stuff and at first I took it per yeah I took it personally of course. Ah, but.

40:50.19
smacey
You're selling a haunted house.

40:50.97
Taryn 
But.

40:54.51
aaronmannes
But then you're like I like okay I need to ah I'm going to adjust I'm going to change I'm going to grow that makes sense I Never really thought about that. Okay, great. Let's let's move on and grow and be able to turn that on and off if I need to So I think it's just like the more stuff you put in the more.

40:58.33
smacey
Um, right.

41:11.92
aaronmannes
Issues you run into the more problems. The more mistakes the more failures quote unquote failures you're going to learn just a ton ton more than if you're sitting alone like trying to figure it out quietly that'll take just so much so much longer.

41:28.31
smacey
Right? right? Well I want to ask Tarin this so as someone who I guess you started in July right of 2023 photography are you someone who.

41:29.13
aaronmannes
Boom That's it.

41:39.28
Taryn 
A.

41:47.50
smacey
The approach is I'm going to do the best I can learn as much as I can This is fun I'm enjoying it. Let's see where this leads or do you have targets you're trying to hit.

41:57.30
Taryn 
The first one there I don't have I don't have any targets I'm gonna just keep doing this till I don't like it. Um you know and it's funny that you ask that because a lot of my community like my friends' family. Their first question is. So is your plan to leave your job and start doing photography full time. That's just everybody's first question and it's funny because I that's never even a thought of mine. Um I'm I am doing this as a hobby I don't I love my full time career I'm a teacher and that's what I love to do I don't I think.

42:14.92
smacey
Right? I'm sure it is.

42:32.00
Taryn 
The joy of photography would go away if if my livelihood depended on it honestly? Um, So I'm I'm just doing it because it's fun and it's never I don't have targets. Um I thought in the beginning as my profile was slowly growing that followers were going to be really important or. You know I Really want to have a real that's going to go viral and I think in the beginning. Um, that was a little bit of my mindset and recently that shifted a bit. Um I Just don't care about that and I think that's a a big part of why.

43:09.20
Taryn 
I've come off as genuine or honest to people as I'm I'm really not doing this to try to get big I like my profile I like my style I'm loving the people I'm meeting through it um other photographers hosts that I've worked with I like that part of it. It's not for me and a number or a. Going viral. At this point I Just like the process of photography.

43:31.88
smacey
Very well said does that mean that you have are you setting any I guess what I'm going to ask is are targets different than goals I Mean how do you continue to push the bar without having some kind of. Some kind of sight on improvement I Guess this question is are you just kind of following your nose and improvements naturally happening as more opportunities come as you become more and more involved say yes to things or are you saying I want to go to that place and I want to get that thing or I want to make that accomplishment.

44:10.79
Taryn 
I Feel like I don't have answers to these things. It's really yeah, it's just developing as I'm going I recently um, got into some food stuff which has been fun I never thought that I would like food photography and I did that and.

44:11.27
aaronmannes
Um.

44:14.57
smacey
Um, you don't need to.

44:25.98
Taryn 
Loved that. So now I'm kind of like ooh that would be fun to reach out to a couple restaurants and maybe start to do some of that I'd like to not get stuck in one category which I feel like I am a little bit right now I was really geared toward cabin. So I guess maybe a goal of mine would be to start to try different genres and see um what I'm liking.

44:45.19
smacey
Anyway.

44:45.72
Taryn 
More Um, but and you know editing is a big thing for me I think a big part of photography that I like is editing and I'm noticing my editing improving over time. Um, so that is a goal I guess is to continue to kind of figure out my style and what works for me in the editing realm.

45:01.82
smacey
Right? So just like vague in that sense. Yeah I like that I mean I'm similar I have the I call it the fall your nose approach where I'm doing this thing with with the podcast with photography you know with other things I just kind of I like saying yes to things or oh that'd be cool.

45:04.48
Taryn 
A.

45:17.67
Taryn 
Me.

45:19.46
smacey
Oh yeah, that's that's interesting or that's neat or it'd be fun to do this every time I catch myself kind of saying those prefacing a sentence with that that'd be cool or oh wouldn't it be interesting if as opposed to saying going to go do this. You know I've never been someone like that who was in school and was like I'm going to be a veterinarian and I'm going to be a doctor I'm going to be a dentist or something that was I've just always kind of been someone who I'm going to just kind of keep keep sniffing around and let's see where life takes me I think that. I Think certain people are cut out for each approach right.

45:54.17
Taryn 
Yeah, well even like doing editing and videos for the podcast like I was like oh that's cool I've never never made reels before for something like that. Let's try that out. So yeah.

46:02.30
smacey
Um, right? And that's and that's a good point too because like now if we continue to grow like we are. You're you're involved. Do you know I mean like you're involved with with the show as.

46:11.81
Taryn 
Yeah.

46:19.63
smacey
Someone who has not held a camera for more than a year really which is really cool. Um, just because yeah, hey it sounds kind of interesting I'm willing to learn like what you guys are doing it comes back to your honesty I think that's maybe the cornerstone of this this one of them of this episode.

46:23.80
Taryn 
Yeah.

46:38.60
smacey
Has been just being brutally honest with your skill level with your intention meaning what you say and saying what you mean.

46:42.89
aaronmannes
Yeah I think also multitasking is I think people can get very linear like okay I need to find a editing style that I like first that could take 2 years before you really settle into something that you like then you're like okay I have my editing style now I need 5000 followers

46:56.24
smacey
Um, right.

47:01.70
smacey
Just too linear.

47:01.82
aaronmannes
That could take another 3 years versus being like I'm going to kind of figure this all out all the same time and that might mess me up in times that might cause problems but I will adjust and pivot and I feel like I'll get ahead faster with maybe some trip ups versus. Just kind of doing 1 thing making sure it's perfect at a time I think just kind of like I'm going to look at it all and try to figure out my editing cell as I go I'm going to try this new food photography that was cool. Let me try this. Let me try that. Let me try this and see kind of what sticks again Seth ah, the first.

47:33.96
smacey
Right.

47:38.40
aaronmannes
First year of photography I mean I remember I was like this is I do a lot weird shit. You know like a lot of weird photos like that I yeah, only want to talk about them. But. Just a lot of weird stuff and trying to figure out hey what do I really like what do I where do I want to go with this What's it and it's still changing. It's still like really changing you get opportunities that you're like huh all right? Um, this is something completely new I'm going. Go take some photos of. Microphones in nature like it's weird thing I never thought I would ever be doing that. But that's what's happening you know and you just like keep on growing and figuring out where your little position in this creative field is.

48:21.76
smacey
Yeah, it's almost as you were saying all that it's almost the maybe the principle be I don't know where I'm going but I'm going you know.

48:30.35
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

48:32.77
Taryn 
And I'm not thinking and I'm going this.

48:34.63
smacey
Have to put off to put that on a hat don't know where but I'm going. Yeah yeah I mean that might stress people out too like oh no, no no I need to know like what my plans are and you know X Y and z.

48:37.70
aaronmannes
Going somewhere.

48:52.44
smacey
I Mean it's Ahs I wouldn't recommend being so rigid in one end and so laxaddasical on the other I mean it's a balance but I think you can potentially really set yourself up and I don't know if I was I'm pretty sure I've said this on the show before you can really set yourself up for disappointment if you're so concrete in what you say. Want especially if you tie that into I'll be happy when as opposed to I'm just going to kind of go with the flow improve get better and I'm going to enjoy the experience that I don't know are coming.

49:13.79
aaronmannes
Ah.

49:20.84
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah I agree with that I I Also think that you can go through like this field waiting for the green lights waiting for all the green lights. You know. And I'm saying this maybe in just a different way. But it's like you you give yourself a challenge by like I'm going to reach out I'm goingnna I'm going to try to do some photography I'm going and try to get paid for something it all could go very poorly. Um, but you. Then again have to just kind of like readjust and you learn so much from that versus again, just kind of like waiting for when is the perfect moment I don't I don't know if you'll ever find it.

50:09.59
Taryn 
I mean I Definitely think that just doing something and failing at it. You learn more than trying to learn it before you do it in my opinion. So I I learn more from failing and then getting feedback from that than trying to prepare.

50:10.33
smacey
Um, right.

50:23.90
aaronmannes
Um, you know.

50:28.42
Taryn 
To do the thing does that make Yeah damn I mean and obviously I had my little notepad of everything that I was learning before I got into photography. There's some basics to it but you it's trial bear I Think so.

50:29.92
smacey
Yeah I got it I just wanted to be silly. Ah.

50:40.53
smacey
Right? right? Well gonna I'm I'm going to ask you something I don't think I've ever really asked anyone because a lot of the people who come on the show are experienced like many many many years. So I don't really get the opportunity to ask this question I guess I could but. So I think it's quite obvious that a lot of beginners in anything drop off just because they're not improving at the rate they're improving all the things we've talked about it's frustrating, not getting clients as fast as they wanted to insert. Whatever variable there as someone who's a beginner. And since what we just said, it's more likely that beginners quit or stop doing something. What would it take for you to stop doing photography.

51:31.68
Taryn 
Um, I think that when I feel like it's impacting. My mental health because I'm being judged or criticized for what I'm putting out there and to be honest, that is a challenge for me Aaron kind of spoke to it a minute ago where I got some feedback on something that was like the first time that. A client wasn't 100 % thrilled with what I put out and it was a big challenge for me to overcome that because I think I'm so very critical of myself that having that on top of me was hard and I do worry with photography that the negative feedback might be something that would. Shut me down over time. But I also think it's a really good opportunity for me to push through that bad feeling of criticizing myself so part of me wants to say that I would stop.

52:27.62
aaronmannes
Are.

52:31.93
Taryn 
Photography What I felt like I was being criticized or what I was putting out. There wasn't being liked but I Also wonder if that would be a motivator for me to push through um and and deal with that uncomfortable feeling. So I don't really know if anything would stop it I do think about the future and the time that I have and. You know, having a family or my career becoming too much. Um, so time perhaps might be a factor but it really is something that I love and in my life up until this point I haven't had something that I felt I Loved this much. Um, so I don't really see it. Stopping. There's things that I can think of that might be barriers but I see myself pushing through those and kind of challenging me in life.

53:14.10
smacey
Um, brave.

53:16.25
aaronmannes
Yeah, she says she was upset I've never seen someone throw more dishes against the wall in the middle of social studies class in sixth grade like it was weird. She just brought in a ah bag filled of dishes to deal with the ah the hurt of that feedback? No, but.

53:24.58
smacey
Teacher's lounge.

53:31.54
Taryn 
1 after the other after the other. Ah.

53:31.76
smacey
How did you get over it though. Let's see it. Do it for Youtube for Youtube.

53:33.66
aaronmannes
But when she will get and I'm going to pat myself on the shoulder a little bit because ah again when you have a mentor. We talk about having we we talk about having a mentor. Ah, when we talk about having a mentor a lot. Um or someone that you can. That's been around the block that that. That knows certain things and I smiled at this moment because I had been there I had been there before where my styling did not fit and the person. The client was absolutely right? They were and I remember saying this line because I thought about it for many hours and I gave it to her and. 30 seconds and I just said hey, um, there's a difference between what you personally love for your own photography and what a client needs to sell their stuff. There's a big difference and you have to be able to separate the 2 and say I edit the way I want to edit for my photos. But I need to edit the way this person wants to edit or would be best for their brand situation product. Whatever it is and I think like having that sort of feedback. It isn't as painful because then it's like. Oh. It's not about me. It's not about my editing it's my editing for this product that's the that's the issue and just learning those little things I think I mean goes a long way in terms of getting through this business There's um, there's just a lot. You're putting yourself out. There.

55:06.44
aaronmannes
You're trying to do something you're getting paid for it. It is subjective. It's not like math where it's right or wrong. It's like I like the way this look and they're like I hate it and you're like well who's right, who's wrong I guess you are because you're paying for it. So now we have to like.

55:17.91
smacey
Um, specific.

55:24.73
aaronmannes
Figure this out. You know? So I think you you do get a little bit of a tougher skin as you go through this as you go through those moments of someone being like I don't really like your work but that doesn't have it on Instagram we're not used to that. It's all like fire emoji this is sick. Great photo bro. It's it's all that no one's like your exposure seems a little low like no one's giving any sort of feedback on Instagram really, it's rare but clients do because they're paying for it or or you had a deal or they're like I don't want to put this up. It doesn't match my grid like whatever it is. Like they they have the last say and that's a different beast than just putting up stuff on Instagram and that's a learning experience. You know so.

56:09.33
Taryn 
And client was totally correct after I made the adjustment it was like oh yeah, so you know like I Just think that it was good that that happened to me I'm happy that happened to me and I I know I don't want more I don't want that to happen more per se.

56:23.25
smacey
Um, right.

56:29.18
Taryn 
But I just think that was like Wow this is a really this is a really good thing that's happening in a hobby that I can now apply to my personal life. You know so it was good. Yeah, and to answer your question before how I handled it I Just broke all the dishes that was it.

56:36.50
smacey
Um, right? So that person gave you a gift in a sense right.

56:47.17
smacey
A rage room you seen those.

56:48.00
aaronmannes
In front of kids how and and I think another interesting point I just thought of this just with our two stories is I mean I'm 5 years in almost you know to like starting photography starting Instagram Seth.

56:48.25
Taryn 
A lot Just yeah yeah.

57:07.86
aaronmannes
What we're doing love it clients doing certain things not to brag I'm just saying what's actually happening and I've talked about this a few times on the podcast and here's just another example or ah, another data point where it's like.

57:24.15
aaronmannes
The gif that we have a second career a first career I should say gives sort of this ability to let go and be kind of reckless with our pursuit in this hobby because it's not life or death. It's not. I need to make this deal There's not a desperation or like ah a timidness which I think people pick up on like oh this person's desperate for this job. Something feels off with this and they they're going to go a different way. They're sort of a very free and honest like how you want pictures or not. Like like this is what I'll do like yeah nope cool. All right have a great day and like move on like move on and just kind of flow through it where it's not like oh my god I lost that gig how am I going to pay my mortgage and like that freak out pressure that we put on ourselves.

58:04.32
smacey
Actual pitch.

58:19.20
smacey
Um, right.

58:19.35
aaronmannes
And I know it's like that's a gift again. That's a gift that we have that that real the career that sets like pays our bills and we can just everything else is gravy but it creates an attitude that I wish I could bottle and share with someone to just be like like just like. Reckless abandon go for it and I think that comes across just be honest, be super transparent give ah money back guarantee. You don't like the photos I'll give you your money back like like get more sales get more deals get more conversations going because. You don't need it like that's the thing like that's the that's the impression like I don't need this but I'll I'll do it if you want like that's the sort of coolness that you can do the sexy indifference that I've talked about before like you're able to do those things and just kind of be like all right next. And move on not cry about it and be like please or I said 500 I'll like I'll do it for 100 I'll do fifty fifty oh and then you're like oh my god I just like sold myself to make this happen. It's not It's not a good look and I don't think it goes well so it just. Thought I would kind of round that up because I know we've talked about that before and this is another kind of example where you have that sort of confidence to just be like but whatever right? Whatever yeah.

59:33.39
smacey
A.

59:41.58
smacey
Right? Whatever has that been an actual pitch of yours you want photos or not Aaron.

59:50.38
aaronmannes
Here's my stuff reply yes I like that 1 reply? yes.

59:50.57
Taryn 
It's not whatever. But.

59:52.92
smacey
If not, you're not very bright because I'm the best ever.

59:57.66
Taryn 
This.

59:59.26
aaronmannes
Ah, if not I'll be fine I don't need you. That's why I say.

01:00:03.70
smacey
It's true. That's true. Well do we have anything else to add. It's been a unique episode.

01:00:07.36
Taryn 
I know I hope that I gave you the answers you needed.

01:00:07.68
aaronmannes
And.

01:00:12.60
smacey
Now it's great.

01:00:12.12
aaronmannes
No, it's cool I think it's good for people. There's probably I think we have more starting off photographers as an audience as an active audience I would say we have more people. Yeah, that are interested in photography. It's really hot right now for them.

01:00:23.32
smacey
Beginners and intermediate.

01:00:26.72
Taryn 
The mother.

01:00:28.48
aaronmannes
That's probably who's seeking us out and listening weekly because they're trying to get somewhere wherever that may be and I think it's good to hear someone that like they didn't need 10000 followers before they got their first paid gig they they just kind of like started and went after it and. And had a lot of success and and it doesn't take like all those little checkmarks that we think we have to fill out before we're happy or like before we get the thing you just kind of make the thing happen like you are the author of your life you're not a victim of your life and in the sense of like. I'm waiting for it to happen to me like we talk about that a lot with Instagram like if I get 100000 I'm going to get those big deals. No, you're not, you're not if you don't ask you might get something you might be able to like you know the dog bandanas like. Get those those dms that we get. Do you have a pet. Do you want to be part of our pet ambassador program. You might start getting that but you you have to reach out, you still have to say hey this is my interest this is my intention and. Be the author of your of your life of your experience.

01:01:44.29
smacey
How many mic drops you going to have this episode.

01:01:45.85
Taryn 
Yeah, that was drop it.

01:01:52.71
smacey
Well Taryn thanks so much for your time today Aaron pleasure as always and I'm excited to see what you do in the next in the coming year. You know it's been a year. Let's see what happens next year um it's pretty exciting to watch and I think it's.

01:01:53.77
Taryn 
Thanks for having me.

01:02:02.50
aaronmannes
Yeah.

01:02:02.44
Taryn 
What I'm excited to.

01:02:10.34
smacey
Reminiscent of our earlier days and it's it's it's nice to see how much quicker you're picking up on things and I think ultimately if I'm if I'm speaking for myself I think that's part of the goal of this show for me is. Aon I don't know if you feel the same way like I want my contribution to be to be able to help people get to where they want to go quick or whatever that is through my own struggle I mean if if people listening take half the time I did to reach a certain. Marker or perform a certain thing or succeeding you know what I mean and I'm not an expert but I hope that having guests like you on and things that Aaron stories that Aaron tells and stories that I tell help people kind of think things through and um, you know, get things moving and maybe. Add some extra encouragement or some reminders that that people need to hear but I'm really really have been excited from the sidelines watching you do what you do and it's it's good to see someone who says yes and yes to so many different opportunities and I think that's going to get you really far.

01:03:18.72
Taryn 
Yeah, well thank you and I appreciate your support too. You know it's nice to you guys kind of started it all for me, you're the first people I I was with when I started this journey so it's full circle. It's nice to be here and I appreciate everything from from your guys end.

01:03:32.43
smacey
Very cool, very cool. All right till next time you do.

01:03:35.78
aaronmannes
Take care.

01:03:36.64
Taryn 
I.