Avoiding the Social Media Game! Photography as a Means to Achieving Happiness with @lyndonswildphotos

Lyndon Norman (@lyndonswildphotos) is a wildlife and nature photographer from Alberta, Canada. She has a genuine passion for ethical wildlife and nature photography, and prioritizes unique perspectives and the safety of animals.

Social media, we all know, is a mess. Anxiety, harmful comparison, grinding until we burnout, feeling like we need to feed the machine. Sometimes we may find ourselves wondering why we started our photography journey in the first place. Thankfully in this episode with Lyndon, we talk about practicing photography simply in the pursuit of happiness rather than achievement. We also describe ways to fulfill our need to create art without worrying about content metrics, insights, and performance constantly.

Expect to learn how to get back to your "why" for photography, how to realize that "more" isn't always better than "enough", why you shouldn't be glued to your social media insights, and how to ensure you're making photos that you love and not what just feeds the algorithm.

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

INTRO:

00:07.72
smacey
Hey, I'm Seth Macey, co-host of the photographer mindset podcast.

00:11.04
aaronmannes
And I'm Aaron Mannes, co-host as well.

00:13.30
smacey
I did it backwards today. Just to always do it the other way around.

00:15.41
aaronmannes
Yeah.

00:17.84
smacey
Today was a really good episode. Who do we have on? Who is this episode for Aaron?

00:21.93
aaronmannes
Uh, we had Linden on, uh, her shit. I wasn't ready.

00:26.78
smacey
We'll do it again.

00:26.99
aaronmannes
What's her name, Linden wilds.

00:29.75
smacey
Just go by her handle.

00:31.02
aaronmannes
Uh, which is Linden's

00:32.97
smacey
Linden's wild photos.

00:37.21
aaronmannes
wild photos. Okay. Let's go again.

00:38.86
smacey
Take two. Hey, welcome back to another episode of the photographer mindset podcast. I'm your co-host said Macy.

00:45.19
aaronmannes
And I'm your co-host, Aaron Manis.

00:46.87
smacey
We had a really good episode today, man. It was refreshing, refreshing. Uh, I want you to tell people who maybe this is their first episode, who this episode's kind of for, why they should listen to it and who we had on.

00:58.65
aaronmannes
Yeah, we had Linden's wild photos on. Linden, she's from Alberta, Canada. Someone I've followed, Seth's followed for a long time at this point. um I'm always inspired by how much she seems to enjoy and just purely love being out in nature, seeing birds big and small, expressing her love for the opportunities to be out in nature, to see ah wildlife. ah She clearly has the joy that we've been talking about in the last couple episodes. It's not necessarily about

01:33.14
aaronmannes
ah always social media, are always finding follows, are always finding likes. It's about why are we here? And this is, ah to me, a pure example of why someone follows the passion of photography day after day.

01:49.05
smacey
Yeah, I think we've had a lot of people write in and say, hey, you know, social media, hearing about that stuff is great. ah But there's a lot of us listening who we don't necessarily care can relate to that kind of stuff. We just want to focus on getting better at our craft, having fun, enjoying ourselves. And I think we touch on that in this episode that I think a lot of people, photographers, creators are on the grind, you know, trying to get a hundred thousand followers, trying to get a brand deal, trying to do all this stuff. And it's all really, I think we talked about in the pursuit of happiness. And in this episode, Lyndon comes across so genuine. And I think she just has a pure love for being outside, experiencing nature, taking great photos. And she's happy. And, you know, we talk a lot about how that is the goal. So and how enough or how more is not necessarily better than or sorry. And how enough is often, you know, fuck, why am I messing that up?

02:40.14
smacey
And how more isn't better than enough. So I think we touched it. It's a unique episode. Why don't we just get right into it?

02:51.39
smacey
I think it's a unique episode. Why don't we get right into it after our word from our sponsor?

INTERVIEW:

00:02:13.72
aaronmannes
the reason or my thoughts for having her on the show, ah there's plenty. But the number one reason, especially lately we've been talking about like getting back to the roots of photography, getting away from sort of the social media struggle, getting away from the pressure of doing things in a certain way. And one thing I've always noticed about Linden from the very beginning, so however long I've been following her is that she has a constant sort of love for nature and wildlife, ah birds and being outside.

00:02:47.50
aaronmannes
I don't know if a day has passed where she's not posting some sort of even just quick little thing about being out in nature or taking a ride or seeing ah a bird that made her day.

00:02:54.21
Lyndon
Okay.

00:02:58.76
aaronmannes
ah it's It's kind of refreshing and I thought as an episode it would just be sort of refreshing to get back to where where that comes from, what that does for her, where did it begin, what's the origin story of that, and kind of going from there and seeing where the motivation lies to go out ah I think ah it seems like a lot. It seems like she's out all the time and seeing incredible things. And I'm also curious about like the piece of land or the land that you live on. And I mean that in like a big scope, like where you're around because the variety of animals and wildlife fauna and flora that come through your feed is impressive on its own. So I will leave it at that. Seth, I don't know if you have any tidbits you want to add.

00:03:48.61
smacey
No, yeah, I think it's a great time. I don't want to take the spotlight here because this is Lynn's episode, but yeah, it's a great time. and We've been talking about getting back to the roots of photography and and there are a lot of listeners who message and are like, I just, I can't relate to the episodes where it's about the social media grind. That being said, most of the episodes with Instagram or something in the title do well. People care about that stuff. I mean, I'm not, I'm not here to judge whether that's good or bad. I'm just saying there's a lot of people who just want to get better at photography in general and could care a less if their account explodes. They just want to become better at what they're doing. so I think, yeah, that passion shines through.

00:04:20.24
smacey
I'm looking at your page right now, 1,051 posts. That's a lot. I mean, I've been doing this 10 years and I have like 500. That's my kick in the ass to start taking more pictures or stopping less of a perfectionist.

00:04:26.77
Lyndon
Yep.

00:04:31.15
smacey
But I wouldn't say that you're doing, by any means, quantity over quality. you'rere you're You're hitting both, taking both boxes off quantity and quality. So I guess i guess a good place to start, start like you said, Aaron, we haven't done this in a while. Usually we just operate into deep conversations. but When did the camera first get in your hand, Linden?

00:04:51.37
Lyndon
Well, I honestly will say I grew up where I would sneak off into the little forest behind my house and hang out with birds and frogs and climb trees as something to do as a child. So it's definitely been where nature is like a happy place for me. And I would say I got a camera when I was about, I don't know, when I became an adult, basically. And I started out honestly, just shooting every sunset and every sunrise I could find.

00:05:23.84
Lyndon
and then slowly I realized like oh there's actually animals underneath that beautiful sun or that beautiful sky that I'm seeing and that slowly drew me into the wildlife thing but I will say like I don't know if you guys want me to just jump right into um yeah I will say I had a major death in my life I lost my brother when I was 25 and he was 14 so

00:05:40.95
aaronmannes
Keep going.

00:05:41.84
smacey
Go ahead.

00:05:49.40
aaronmannes
Oh, jeez.

00:05:52.58
Lyndon
Yeah, in my family, I come from, there's seven siblings. So it's a huge family.

00:05:56.54
smacey
Wow.

00:05:57.43
Lyndon
Yeah. And we have huge age gaps. So a lot of my life when I was a teenager was being with my younger siblings and helping my mom a lot. and doing a lot of like sister and mother kind of role. So losing my brother was absolutely devastating and it was the hardest thing I've ever gone through. Don't want anyone to ever go through something like a loss that close to you, you know, like all losses have like a ah major grieving process to them, but the closer, the harder and the longer I think.

00:06:34.63
Lyndon
So for me, um I was like grasping for anything to sort of pull me out of my grief or to help me through day to day because a lot of the times it was just getting through the day and not being horribly sad. And I found photography was the thing for me. I i think right after I lost my brother, I didn't jump into it straight away.

00:06:53.62
aaronmannes
Mm hmm.

00:06:56.62
Lyndon
But I would say within the year, I decided instead of choosing like alcohol or choosing to be mad at everybody or anything like those bad habits that you can get into to try to help yourself. I chose photography and honestly like I think wildlife has this way of and nature just a way of showing you maybe that like I don't I'm not very religious or super spiritual but I would say I'm more spiritual and I really think like those days when I'm having the worst day or the hardest day I would go out and be looking for wildlife and I would have these absolutely incredible encounters like one that comes to mind right after I lost my brother and I was just searching and searching for some happiness. I had a red tail hawk that

00:07:53.45
Lyndon
just um I don't know it was such a cool moment it came and was hovering like weirdly hovering right in front of me and for so long and like I didn't have great equipment or anything like that but I would say that's like my spark bird if anyone wants to go get bird nerdy with me but yeah the red-tailed hawk that was just incredible it just felt like I don't know, such a special moment for me that really made me happy. And then it was like, I just found myself chasing after all that ever since. Like it really, it helps me a lot that way.

00:08:32.00
aaronmannes
That's nice. that's a I mean, it's a nice intro into such a a tough situation, obviously, and then making some sort of beautiful thing out of it. Now you mentioned, I just want to ask or clarify, it took about a year to get into photography after that. And and you mentioned you you didn't want to go down ah you know substance abuse or being angry. Did you, can I ask, did you struggle with that at all to start before you got into? Did you make a switch? Was it just sort of grieving and then you found this sort of outlet or was it like a life change that you needed to ah catch yourself before it went too far the other way?

00:09:16.09
Lyndon
Um, I would just say I, like, I, it just, like I said, I had a camera and I was already sort of interested in the artsy-ness of it, but I guess this more pulled me into the wildlife aspect or the nature, like, obsession that I have, because even as I went on, um, once I had children is the same thing, like, when I need a break or a mental escape or something like that, that's where I'm just like, I got to go take pictures of wildlife or get out for a hike or just go for a drive even clear my head. I found it was like the best place to just reorganize my thoughts and to get myself like in a happier place. So I don't think like I didn't

00:10:01.24
Lyndon
It's not that I went down the substance of abuse um path at first, but I have, like, I've seen that. That's what happened around me, I guess, and I was looking to avoid it and to do something.

00:10:08.22
aaronmannes
Yeah.

00:10:12.73
smacey
Yeah.

00:10:13.54
Lyndon
Like you said, turn it into something positive or beautiful.

00:10:15.03
smacey
Yeah.

00:10:17.33
aaronmannes
Yeah. And you have two children, right?

00:10:19.64
Lyndon
Yeah, yeah, a seven and a four-year-old right now.

00:10:22.66
aaronmannes
So I could see how that would make you want to just sprint into the woods by yourself on times.

00:10:26.98
Lyndon
Am I right?

00:10:28.28
aaronmannes
Yeah. Uh, I have one eight year old and sometimes I want to just sprint right into the woods and sometimes I want to take him.

00:10:29.31
Lyndon
Yeah. and

00:10:36.19
aaronmannes
And I, I think that's brings me to my next point is you, you often are dragging your young children. through nature and and giving them those experiences. And I'm curious, you know, how much they like it, how much they're complaining that this is boring or are they little sidekicks? Like what's the what's the vibe there for parents that say like, I have two kids, I don't have enough time. I'm too busy with my children. for For anyone that needs to be inspired, like take a look at her page and she's often bringing them with, she's often finding time, whether it's,

00:11:11.34
aaronmannes
sunset or sunrise or what have you. ah How do you manage or juggle those pieces as a mom with two kids, two young kids?

00:11:20.73
Lyndon
Yeah, um I was hoping we would touch on this too because i I think it's kind of funny how you've got your little sidekick too. um but my So my seven year old, he's very interested in nature and he loves coming on hikes with me and exploring with me and he helps me spot animals. Like the first big hike I took them on was out in Kananaskis looking for the Pika, Pika, however, whoever wants to say it.

00:11:47.48
aaronmannes
Pika.

00:11:48.20
smacey
Mmhmm.

00:11:49.14
Lyndon
And I like when we got to the top of the hike, my daughter was just like, she was not into it. She was three, though, and it was pretty difficult, but My seven-year-old, he immediately was helping me spot them. He found the first one and he was really proud of himself that he got the shot for me. So that was pretty fun. But my four-year-old, she's the one who's with me all the time because she's not in school. And I like i just drag her out. I make her come. i like I hope that is kind of inspiring to other moms out there too because I feel like a lot of people

00:12:21.19
Lyndon
um like moms and dads just as soon as you have children or looking towards having children when you're already doing wildlife photography they think like it's not you're never gonna have time or it's not possible and it's very possible and I think it's very good for them because it's pretty cool to see like my daughter um the way that she notices birds the way that she notices um like a plant or I just I just think it's really important to teach children like to respect nature and to notice those little beautiful things because I don't know as corny as it sounds it's like the little things are the big things in life so if you're always able to find those little things and find beauty in them then your day is beautiful where if you go about you know looking at negative things and seeing negative things then

00:12:49.19
aaronmannes
Mm hmm.

00:13:14.04
Lyndon
That's generally how your day goes, so it's a good lesson that way too, I think.

00:13:18.81
aaronmannes
Absolutely.

00:13:19.10
smacey
Hahaha

00:13:19.65
aaronmannes
There's this, ah there's this French book about raising children. I think it's called Raising Bébé. Bébé. ah But there's this one line in it that I remember. I actually read this, maybe one book about raising kids and I was like, that's enough. That's good. I'm good. ah But it said the American way is ah kids drive the car. The French way is kids are the passenger in the car.

00:13:44.52
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:13:44.78
aaronmannes
And ah that one line kind of hit me in in terms of my own kid. Like my kid's initial reaction might be like, I don't want to go on a hike. Like I want to, I want to watch TV or like, i no, I'm not in the mood for that. If you ask like, Hey, do you want to go for a hike? No. You know, but once you're out there, he's blabbing away, talking, looking at things, picking up things. And there's, there's no negative talk about it once you're out there. So it's kind of like, no, like we are going for a hike or we're going to drive three hours to go look at this and whatever it is.

00:14:16.02
Lyndon
Yes.

00:14:17.04
aaronmannes
Um, and I think that's suited him well and me well with someone that has hobbies or things that they want to. pursue, not just being like, Oh, my son didn't want to. So now I'm stuck inside watching Ninja Turtles, which is pretty awesome, by the way. But, um but yeah, I just think that's a great approach. And I know there's a balance. And, you know, not forcing your kids to do everything they hate, but sometimes they just got to kind of go along with it and and find the good in it.

00:14:48.40
Lyndon
Yeah, for sure. And I find like, um like you said, you just, you just got to bring them and you just got to drag them out. And as you get there, they're having a great time. And my daughter's still like just earlier today, I was asking her if she like if she remembers any of the animals that we see or what was her favorite one and she said it was a snowy owl in the frosty tree and that was like my most memorable snowy owl encounter for the winter and they were there to see the snowy owl like hop out of the tree and land in the field beside us and was hunting in the field and it was just incredible and both my kids were there to see it and they both like they talk about it a lot so I just think that's going to be so neat for them as they grow up and in the future and

00:15:29.16
aaronmannes
um Yeah.

00:15:34.91
Lyndon
Yeah, I'm really glad that I bring them and show them that stuff.

00:15:38.27
aaronmannes
Ben and I, we used to do a, we still do every once in a while. We kind of call it back from when he was younger, but like a point game. So when we're driving or we're out, whoever sees the animal first is like, Oh, I saw those deer. How much is, how much are deer worth? And I'm like, eh, like see those a lot. So we have two points. It's like a scale all the way up to a hundred. He's like, what would be a hundred?

00:15:59.98
Lyndon
yeah

00:16:01.33
aaronmannes
I'm like a bobcat. I've never, seen like, I've never seen one. So you see a bobcat, you get a hundred points. So we we play that game too and and kind of keep score, especially for like road trips or whatnot. Like we have this tally thing going on for the entire time of who saw what, who saw it first.

00:16:16.14
Lyndon
yeah

00:16:18.09
aaronmannes
It's a, it's a good game. You can use it. That one's free.

00:16:20.68
Lyndon
thanks

00:16:21.47
aaronmannes
That one's free.

00:16:24.53
smacey
Nice. I'm going to jump in because I've been sitting on the sidelines, which is nice to do.

00:16:27.49
aaronmannes
Yeah.

00:16:30.19
aaronmannes
Yeah. It's nice, right there.

00:16:30.59
smacey
And yeah, it's nice in the peanut gallery.

00:16:32.71
aaronmannes
Yeah.

00:16:35.64
smacey
10 to 15 minutes in here. We haven't talked about social media engagement, any any of that stuff once.

00:16:41.98
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:16:43.42
smacey
And I'm here for it.

00:16:44.60
Lyndon
Thanks.

00:16:46.34
smacey
That's refreshing because like I said, there's so many people who are listening who don't care. I know a lot of you listening care. You want the clout. You want the big brand deals. You want the a hundred thousand followers. You want this to be your full time income. All that stuff right that goes with trying to be a wizard of the algorithm and a wizard of the phone and committed to daily content. And that's great. But I think our conversation so far has headed and has has been heading in such a genuine direction, a genuine love for the craft. And I'm curious, Lyndon, if If it's always going to be about just getting better, just getting outside, if it's just a practice and keeping your head clean. I mean, do you even think about things like I'd really love to be like an influencer photographer status or really love like a huge brand deal. And it's okay if you do, but I mean, I just, I guess I'm curious to know. Based on what we've talked about so far.

00:17:49.24
smacey
What the, what the purpose is. I mean, and I know it's too, it's a, it's a place to keep your mind silent, but is there anything else? Is there an order of priority?

00:17:59.83
Lyndon
Um, well, like, I just thought it was funny when you first started talking about how we haven't even talked about it. And I, I totally am one of those people on Instagram that I see that insights bar and I never, ever, ever click it.

00:18:17.39
smacey
Here we go.

00:18:17.44
Lyndon
I just don't care. Like, I don't care at all.

00:18:18.91
aaronmannes
That's great.

00:18:19.66
Lyndon
I don't look at it. And I feel like a lot of people who are clicking it all the time, it's just like, why? Because it's not going to make a difference on and Besides it's gonna like cloud your mind on what and it's gonna make it harder to decide what to post or what to share. Just quit looking at it. Quit clicking how many views you have and quit clicking on your insights. just

00:18:40.24
smacey
But I need to know what works. I need to know it gets me more stuff, more followers.

00:18:43.10
Lyndon
Then you find out and it doesn't matter like I think I guess before like maybe years ago I did care a bit more and I had this like you know I feel like when you when you're really getting into wildlife stuff you just immediately think like you're gonna do it as a job and you're gonna make a bunch of money off prints and you're gonna, you just gotta figure out a way to make it your job. but And I've heard other guests on your show even say like, as soon as the moment you start making it a job, then it's no longer that pleasurable thing that you had going on. Like you don't do it for fun anymore. You're doing it to make money and then there's too much pressure and it's just not fun anymore. And so I think for me, it's it's really turned into that especially

00:19:29.51
Lyndon
I don't know, just the way it's become part of my life. like ah Sure, I would love to make money off of my prints that I do, but I don't really want it to be like someone else's guidelines because then it's not what I want to do. like It sounds really simple, but I know for some people it's so complicated. and

00:19:48.64
smacey
Mm

00:19:49.65
Lyndon
Yeah, I just try not to look and as for what it is for me, like what the purpose is, I really, it's like, it's my happiness and it like, sure, if a lodge or something wanted to buy a whole bunch of my prints, I would just die. Like I would be so happy. I would love to make a bunch of money off of my prints, but I'm not going to sit there and make it this really complicated, hard thing because that's just not my, I just don't want to do it.

00:20:13.76
smacey
hmm.

00:20:16.20
Lyndon
I, I guess I'm a little bit different that way. I don't know.

00:20:19.96
smacey
Yeah, I think I think the problem is often we can think that me being a professional or me being my full full making this my full time income, we set these finish lines. Right? Like the winning finish line. That's my goal. And then you kind of disregard the entire practice on the way up. I'm not saying everybody, but that can be the tendency to put blinders on and not really what you're talking about is an appreciation for the ability to do something and simply enjoy it. And a lot of us have lost that, and I think that's why a lot of us are so miserable.

00:20:55.14
smacey
right like we we We think the purpose the purpose of doing something is to achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve. And im I like to achieve things. I mean, I i feel like I've caught myself in this loop, but I think the key is to catch yourself sometimes and bring it back to back to the start.

00:21:09.69
Lyndon
yeah

00:21:11.04
smacey
um

00:21:11.08
Lyndon
Yeah It feels good getting a bunch of likes and it feels good like it's that validation thing you guys would talk about before too, but it's like I That can only go so far. And I don't know, I feel like if you really have a passion for wildlife or for landscape or for Astro or whatever it is, you just, you just got to keep doing it and not put that extra pressure on yourself. Like um I want to say unless you have to, but like I'm talking if someone's already got like a big brand deal.

00:21:43.50
Lyndon
and they have to put the pressure on themselves, but I'm not in that position and I don't, like, I really won't take on a job that's gonna make me feel... How do I word that? Like, there's so much pressure that I don't even enjoy it anymore.

00:21:58.81
smacey
Right. There's a lot of individuals who would say like, if you're not getting a brand deal, if you're not making more income year over year, you're not succeeding. But I like to raise the point here based on what you're, what you're saying is you're potentially succeeding more than anyone by having fun and enjoying your life every time you go out.

00:22:06.43
Lyndon
Yes.

00:22:16.40
Lyndon
for sure

00:22:17.68
smacey
And it seems like such a simple concept to you because you're like, well, duh, right?

00:22:19.15
Lyndon
For sure.

00:22:21.85
smacey
Because that's your life. But I feel like a lot of others and potentially some people listening can get into such a convoluted state of mind where it's all squirrely and the priorities are all out of line. And it's just like, what am I doing?

00:22:33.77
Lyndon
Well, I feel like once people sometimes get focusing on the follows and the likes, too, then they're totally like when it comes to wildlife specifically, they're totally clouded on their ethics when they're out there. They will do absolutely anything to get a certain shot, one that they get in their mind or that they've seen be successful before on social media. and

00:22:56.41
aaronmannes
Mm hmm.

00:22:57.42
Lyndon
then they're willing to get into wildlife space or they're doing absolutely anything. They're traveling absolutely everywhere or like traveling hours and hours and hours just to see this certain owl and get the same photos as everybody. Like that just drives me crazy. I don't know why you wouldn't want to just work hard, focus in on something in your area like a certain species and just try and then it's so much more rewarding when you do get that photo or find that animal. I just don't understand that like chasing, chasing, chasing for likes or follows.

00:23:33.44
aaronmannes
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's very easy to get sort of trapped in. If you look at, if you look at your profile, like there was a mountain bluebird that you posted that did really well. And I think it's easy to be like, okay. Uh, how many mountain bluebird photos do I have? Like how many, let let me go, let me go after those because that did really well. But if you also look closer at here your profile, you're not afraid to put in ah a Robin, you know, you're not afraid to put in anything that sort of moves you, ah despite the sort of idea that goes, ah you know, but like, I've been there, I've been honest, like, I like this photo, but I'm not gonna post this Canadian geese, like, you know, we we have millions of them, like, it's not that exciting, I'm not gonna do it.

00:24:06.70
Lyndon
Okay.

00:24:21.01
smacey
Thanks.

00:24:21.82
Lyndon
Yes.

00:24:22.42
aaronmannes
ah you know So i I think staying true to, again, like I like this photo, I like this moment. It was who was it was fun. It made me smile. i like I took the time to edit it. i don't Audience last, right? like We talk about that. Audience last in a sense. where you If you're a true, I think a true artist. And I think that there's a difference between like creating a business and creating an artist.

00:24:47.69
Lyndon
Yeah,

00:24:48.17
aaronmannes
it's It's very different. um Creating content versus creating art. Art might not get a ton of viral likes, but it is true to who you are. Content might.

00:24:58.28
smacey
Can you be both and how can we, how can we like, how can we be both for people who are listening?

00:25:00.30
Lyndon
yeah I think so.

00:25:06.79
smacey
It's like, I don't really, like I want to make this my business, but it's also my art and I want to succeed.

00:25:09.05
Lyndon
I

00:25:10.63
smacey
I want to get, you know, I mean, what it's the remedy, I guess, so that it's not one of the other.

00:25:14.11
Lyndon
think I think you just like, you just keep pushing, you just keep going and it's like one of those things where you're just going to keep getting better. I guess that's where I'm at too because I definitely prefer the art and I want to do what I want to do. But maybe somewhere out there there's a ah position or a job that is going to come my way because they see I'm persistent, I'm always growing, I'm getting a lot better the more that I do it. I'm talking about anyone could say this about themselves the more like the more that you practice the better you're gonna get no matter what it is like if you do it every day and someone does it once a week the person who does it every day is gonna get better faster it's just how practicing a ah craft works right so I feel like you could work your way up to that but I think the biggest thing is not having it be what you're relying on to make money

00:26:07.26
Lyndon
If you want to keep it as your art, if you've got a job or an opportunity where you could make a bunch of money on it, then that's absolutely awesome and great.

00:26:07.40
aaronmannes
Mm hmm.

00:26:16.35
Lyndon
Like I would love that. But I do think it's kind of hard because then once again, it could just slowly turn into something that it's too stressful and you don't like it. Right. So.

00:26:26.28
smacey
Yeah, I've seen this.

00:26:27.21
aaronmannes
Seth, I like your question. She said both. Um, I'm going to say no, you can't.

00:26:32.17
smacey
Okay.

00:26:33.32
aaronmannes
And then I want to hear your answer, uh, not to argue with you, Linden. We just met and this is our first fight.

00:26:37.87
Lyndon
um yeah

00:26:40.13
aaronmannes
Um, but, uh,

00:26:43.25
smacey
That is something you would say.

00:26:46.59
aaronmannes
I honest, I, I think you could do both halfway. I mean, you can do both, but something's got to give. And if you're making content, I always think of this joke of like the content creator that misses the, the bear cub coming out of the thing. Cause they're trying to make a funny video or like a slow motion lift of their lens and the bears there and shit.

00:27:02.92
Lyndon
Oh, yeah.

00:27:08.66
aaronmannes
They miss the photo. Like, I really think if you're spending time making content that goes well, you're not spending time doing your art and you could do it a little bit and you can divide your time and split your time, but yeah I just don't think it's going to go through. And I, talking to Neuch 10, Michael Neutorino the other day, we're talking about this exact topic. And I said, it's like a music artist. Like, we we love a music musical artist for their music, right? If they started putting content on social media, like, hey, this is how you do a blues scale, and like valuable information, their media might account, and might grow, their media account might grow, and their content might do better versus putting on like, this is a song I wrote, it's a minute long,

00:27:56.30
aaronmannes
God forbid you have a minute attention span and you watch this. It's not going to do well, but that's the artist that we are looking for. So it's kind of like, which, which lane are you going to go in? Do you want a huge social media account or do you want to stay true to your artists and grow really slowly? But I think you do grow and you stay true to who you are. It's not that fast boom, but I think you grow. And I would go to as far. And I know this isn't true for everyone. The top echelon photographers have tons and tons of followers, but I think they got them a long time ago.

00:28:30.31
aaronmannes
I think this day and age, if you're having an epic rise and following, I think, um um I'm going to say it, you're less of a photographer.

00:28:40.64
Lyndon
You're like compromising some parts of yourself.

00:28:42.69
aaronmannes
Yeah, you are.

00:28:44.18
Lyndon
Yeah. Yeah.

00:28:45.11
aaronmannes
you're you're You're not as good as you could be because there's only so much time.

00:28:48.45
smacey
at purely photography, you mean?

00:28:50.45
aaronmannes
or or video or whatever your art is. Like if you're deciding i want to I want to grow in a certain way, exponentially, virally, I think there's a certain kind of content that does really well.

00:28:57.27
smacey
just

00:29:03.31
aaronmannes
I don't know if great photos on their own, time and time again, great photos is gonna create viral growth at this stage, unless you're doing the content thing

00:29:04.82
smacey
So you're saying

00:29:15.65
aaronmannes
to promote it, but if you're doing the content thing to promote it, you're spending a lot of time doing that and not on your craft.

00:29:23.99
smacey
So if I'm hearing you correctly, because I think I disagree with you slightly.

00:29:24.19
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:29:25.85
aaronmannes
Yeah, un unwind it, unravel it.

00:29:31.20
aaronmannes
Good, so we have a maybe, a no, and a yes.

00:29:32.11
smacey
A little mix up mixing bowl. So, and then we'll get back to, cause we said this episode isn't about social media, but I guess it didn't really, it really isn't here. This is a different kind of concept. Uh, if I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying that technically speaking, you can't be as good at photography, as good as possible. If you're sacrificing the time you could be spending shooting, creating content to go viral.

00:29:56.56
aaronmannes
Yes.

00:29:57.65
smacey
That's exactly what you're saying.

00:29:59.67
aaronmannes
I think so.

00:30:01.96
smacey
Well, I'm thinking of like, maybe it's different based on based on the context. But let's say, cause there's a ton of musicians, let's say on Instagram who are guitar players who are incredible. You send me those reels all the time or nooch does in our group chat and they're the way they, the, the angle they film it or the cuts they make or the personality before they get into the song.

00:30:20.49
aaronmannes
Hmm?

00:30:33.29
smacey
is very good from a content perspective, but then you're still enjoying the music they've written. And the I feel like there are content creators for sure that put that first and foremost in the photography, videography genre. And that of course can be turned into a game where it's just, well, this did well. We've talked about it this did well. So I'm going to make content like that. And then it's not you're necessarily the art you want to make, but then there's this really small piece of the pie. And you've you've figured this out sort of when you made your your comedy skits Where you got to think this is gonna perform really well and I get to share my photography like there's a very small finite way and it's It's very very very tiny way And I think this is why you don't see it too often because it's very difficult to do to be able to cohesively blend the two

00:31:32.36
aaronmannes
Oh, yeah.

00:31:32.39
smacey
But I think the important part is people in that very, very tiny sliver of the pie want to be content creators because they they like it as opposed to feeling like it's something they should do.

00:31:48.01
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:31:48.10
smacey
Does that make sense?

00:31:48.94
Lyndon
I would say I'm kind of like that. I enjoy, like I really enjoy sharing stories and I enjoy making the little reels.

00:31:50.76
smacey
OK.

00:31:57.04
Lyndon
Some of them are like goofy. Some of them are just a video of wildlife. Some of them are lip-syncing. Like I know it's like all over the place, but it's just, it's, I just do whatever I want to do on there and sometimes it does well and sometimes it doesn't.

00:32:13.63
smacey
Right. So what I'm saying is you don't have the intent like, Oh, this is the thought ah that never arises. Oh, this is great con. This will be great content. This will perform well. It's, I want to make this, this is me. And it happens to do well.

00:32:27.61
Lyndon
Yeah, I think

00:32:28.47
smacey
Right. Exactly.

00:32:32.65
aaronmannes
Yeah, I don't disagree that balance is probably the best way to conquer the game that there is. If you're just sticking to, in this day and age, posting a photo every couple days, you're probably not going to see as much growth as you could. People aren't going to see your work, no matter how good it is.

00:32:51.08
smacey
yeah

00:32:51.15
aaronmannes
So there there is a, you know, Rob Peter to pay Paul sort of thing that's going on here. Where e you gotta just make a little bit potentially of ah that sort of sacrifice But to your point where I said I'm gonna show my art and and do this content that video taking took hours and hours and hours of Figuring it out editing going to do it bringing it back where I was not waiting in the bush for an awesome moment to happen and then and then

00:33:09.73
smacey
Yeah. Right.

00:33:23.01
smacey
Correct.

00:33:25.90
aaronmannes
Refinite like finiting those skills and making those skills any better. So your point about the guitarist Yeah, they're great, but I could argue they're not practicing guitar. So they're not They're they're doing content in those hours. Whatever that video took to do takes hours It's a it's a sacrifice to build the machine which is like I want to get people at my live show So maybe you have to sacrifice some practice to do this content and then I get so yeah, of course but I think the question being can you

00:33:42.70
smacey
Right. Right.

00:33:54.23
aaronmannes
Do both, what I don't know if that was the original question or does it does it hurt one another? I think in the in the purest form, yes.

00:34:00.96
smacey
Yeah. Yeah, I guess in theory, you could say it's an opportunity cost for anything. Right.

00:34:07.31
aaronmannes
Right, right.

00:34:08.02
smacey
um But we can talk about this, too, just to come back, like just to be full, come full circle here in this conversation, you mentioned the term. The game, I mean. and i I've said this before, and I'm going to maybe I haven't said it, but what is the game if you really continue to Fast forward to the next step of everything everybody does. It's all again, a hundred thousand followers. I'll get a brand deal. I'll be full time, whatever path you want to choose.

00:34:39.72
smacey
And then I'll be happy. So what is the point if you're someone like Linden who's going out every day and genuinely enjoying, enjoying life and happy with what they're doing, right?

00:34:49.67
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:34:49.90
smacey
Like that's, that's the circle. Like we're all trying to get to happiness.

00:34:54.92
aaronmannes
Mm hmm.

00:34:55.86
smacey
So if you're already there, why, Like what is the, what is the point of playing said game?

00:35:04.66
Lyndon
Yeah, exactly. That is where I'm at. Exactly. It's just like, it's already really fun and enjoyable for me. So to gain followers is a bonus to have people love my stuff is a bonus to all that stuff is just kind of like, it adds to it. It's really nice and everything and it like gives you confidence and it's like, it kind of encouraged you more, but it's not like where you're just chasing always looking at.

00:35:25.13
smacey
Right.

00:35:26.25
aaronmannes
Hmm?

00:35:30.77
Lyndon
Yeah, I think

00:35:31.52
smacey
Right. So what you're talking about is more isn't better than enough.

00:35:35.85
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:35:37.52
smacey
I feel like a lot of us need to hear that more is not better than enough.

00:35:37.90
Lyndon
I think so.

00:35:40.16
aaronmannes
Yeah, I was agree.

00:35:40.85
Lyndon
Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:44.87
aaronmannes
Next, to your point, I don't know, like, when's it, it's, it's a brilliant game because it never ends. If you have a million followers, you could get two million.

00:35:50.07
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:35:53.48
smacey
It never ends.

00:35:53.91
aaronmannes
It never ends.

00:35:54.64
smacey
So like, so like it, I don't know.

00:35:55.66
Lyndon
yeah

00:35:59.10
smacey
And less like, unless the happiness and fun comes from hitting those things. It really comes down to don't play the same game that everybody else is because everybody's version of fun and happiness is different.

00:36:07.34
Lyndon
Yeah. That's very true. Yeah.

00:36:17.65
smacey
And I think this is where the comparison game gets us into trouble, especially you see, oh, so-and-so follower with 141,000 followers, they're traveling the world, they look like they're having fun. Maybe that's where how I can find my happiness and I do the same thing and you don't figure it out on your own or you don't realize that that person has probably miserable moments too, right?

00:36:36.04
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:36:36.85
aaronmannes
Hm.

00:36:37.28
smacey
It's it's hard to dissociate and I'm curious, maybe we can get into this. how do you Was there something maybe in your upbringing, you said you spent a lot of time out in nature. I don't think that's a coincidence with your, with your mindset towards this. I think back to our earlier conversation, I don't have kids, but if I did, I would be sure as hell to be really involving them in nature and and realizing that they're a participant in this grand system that was designed by God knows what. But how are you how are you keeping your head on straight?

00:37:07.61
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:37:09.88
smacey
Like what do you attribute that to when so many people are poisoned and sucked into this crazy machine?

00:37:18.40
Lyndon
I would say like back when I was growing up my mom was a big influence for that because we would go on nature walks and she just like one of the things we would do is in the fall was to collect the most beautiful leaves we could find and some of them were like bigger than our face and just like realizing how cool and neat that was to see. And then like she was really good about pointing out, oh, look at the beautiful sky. And it's like I said, if you're finding all these little, like she taught me to look for the little happiness. And that ah just, honestly, like it's so simple. It's like, find the little things in your day or out in front of you that make you happier, that are beautiful about the world, and just focus on that.

00:38:04.58
Lyndon
and Your day is gonna go a lot better. It's so simple like you just have to find and some days sure I don't feel like doing that and I can have my slump days too, but I find that's with wildlife photography Especially there's just so many cool birds and animals out there that are just like right in our backyard You just have to literally like go for a drive and go look I don't know how many people come to me and they're like I didn't know

00:38:07.75
smacey
Mm hmm.

00:38:30.09
Lyndon
We had moose around and I'm like, I can find them in two seconds. You just have to go look for them and go be looking for that instead of assuming it's not there and just not ever trying. I don't know.

00:38:42.88
smacey
I guess the tricky part is if you if you attribute a lot of your outlook and your relationship your positive relationship with social media to when you were a child, I'm thinking about listeners who didn't have maybe that that parental bond or that time spent like you did. And I empathize with them. Maybe it's difficult to, maybe it is difficult to notice or appreciate the very tiny things.

00:39:16.74
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:39:17.29
smacey
Right. I mean, I mean, we're bombarded with get the crest toothpaste. Your teeth are whiter than everybody else's get the Lamborghini. So your neighbor is jealous of you. I mean, ah how do, you how do people who

00:39:26.77
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:39:30.57
smacey
the majority of civilized people, how do we get out of this? like How do we begin to be okay and satisfied with less? ah yeah i guess I guess you could say we're trying to solve the world's problems here, but i I feel like it's potentially easier for you to have that mentality because you've grown up with it. Or is that unfair? Have you worked at that?

00:39:55.53
Lyndon
I mean, like I wasn't always into photography and stuff like that. Like I said, it was something that I chose to lean into when I was going through a major grief in my life and it pulled me out of it.

00:40:07.89
smacey
Right.

00:40:10.36
Lyndon
But I will like i will say I agree with you. it's like I'm very lucky with my upbringing to even have had that. like I wasn't fighting for anything I was just you know it was a happy upbringing where for some people it would be really difficult but also just go ahead and lean on like take this advice go out there and lean on nature and lean on the beauty that's around you because it really is not hard to find like I know you say like what about people who can't don't think they can find it I'm telling you like it's there you just have to go go look at the wildflowers and just appreciate it and it's

00:40:24.28
smacey
ah Yeah.

00:40:37.48
smacey
Right.

00:40:48.55
Lyndon
then you did that instead of looking at the rainy sky above you and being mad that it's about to rain. Like it's sort of, you gotta choose your mindset too.

00:40:57.92
smacey
Right. So it sounds is it is it fair to say your childhood adolescence was was filled with love from family like it was right.

00:41:06.10
Lyndon
Yeah, definitely.

00:41:07.89
smacey
So I mean I guess the other the other piece of advice would be for the person you just described is give love like give that appreciation to other people and other things like you get when you give right.

00:41:15.73
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:41:19.16
Lyndon
for sure.

00:41:20.25
aaronmannes
I think to you have to look around, it's tough. Again, if you don't, if you're not used to it, everything is normal at this point, you know, having the new station on getting 100 bad stories in the morning before you even have your coffee, if it's just habit and like, that sort of those habits that create a fear cycle and create tons of input, you know, so scrolling through your phone and seeing everyone else's photos and then saying like, I'm not gonna post mine because You know, i got ah I got a black bear today, but I just saw 20 grizzly bears and they're so much better than mine. So what's the point? Instead of turning some of those inputs off, you know, turn the news off, turn the phone off, go out to nature, be excited about the the robin or the squirrel having a cool moment and like go edit those photos and keep them. And if that brings you joy, do it and throw it out there without sort of the

00:42:15.55
aaronmannes
so much input coming in that makes you compare, that makes you afraid, that makes you nervous, that makes you anxious. All those things, Seth, you touched on marketing, it's all about lack, right? It's all about you could be prettier, you could be younger, you could be thinner, you could be stronger, you could be taller.

00:42:28.29
smacey
Right. Mm hmm.

00:42:33.16
aaronmannes
ah It's like for a price.

00:42:34.82
smacey
For a price.

00:42:37.31
aaronmannes
And there a lot of those things have no no end also, just like the followers.

00:42:37.38
smacey
Right.

00:42:43.67
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:42:44.36
aaronmannes
I mean, we're never going to be younger than we are right now. So it doesn't matter what we keep trying to do age wins, but it's, that's what marketing's about. You know, that's what, that's what capitalism seems to be about. You turn on the, the anything, any sporting event, anything, and every commercial is about, you know, take this pill to cover up this symptom, or, uh, you could be prettier, thinner, faster, younger, whatever it is. You know, so turning off some of those inputs, I think can create the space to be like, Oh, this is enjoyable. This day was enjoyable. This day was peaceful. Peaceful is a really underrated feeling, I think in anything. Uh, people want like excitement and their nervous system going, but peace is like, if you can get to a peaceful place, like that's what creates that like small smile where you're like, this is nice.

00:43:38.56
aaronmannes
You know, and I think that's an underrated sort of feeling.

00:43:42.91
smacey
Just being mellow.

00:43:44.59
aaronmannes
I'm not even mellow, just like.

00:43:48.30
Lyndon
At peace with what's going around you.

00:43:48.64
aaronmannes
um so Yeah. no Everyone knows this feeling. You're really sick with the flu. And that first day you feel better. Like how good is life when

00:43:59.44
Lyndon
nice cold glass of water confirm really yeah

00:44:02.88
aaronmannes
Yeah, how good is life when you can get out of bed and go for a run or like move around or an injury starts to get better? That's an automatic boost and that's nothing extra. That's just like it was taken away for a minute and now you have like your basics back.

00:44:17.18
smacey
yeah

00:44:20.08
aaronmannes
You have your basic ability to function back and it's man, I mean,

00:44:25.44
Lyndon
nice cold water.

00:44:27.20
aaronmannes
ah nothing else puts me in a better mood than like the getting through a three day sickness where you're like, oh, I'm back. I'm going back to work. Thank God I could go to work. Like, and normally you go to work and you're like, ah I can't wait to go home. Like it's, it's just, it's a reset sometimes. And I think any sort of reset, uh, can just do wonders for like your perception of what's going on.

00:44:44.25
smacey
Yeah.

00:44:50.63
Lyndon
Well, that's another sort of mindset thing too. I think like one of the things that I find myself doing is I'm really thankful for um for just being able to get out for my legs that work and allow me to hike like I purposely will say to myself that I'm so thankful that I can run right now like that my body's able to let me hike or to let me go chasing wildlife or and it's like a mindset thing and then I just think that it it continues to bring you positivity if you keep thinking that way too it's important yeah

00:45:26.51
smacey
Yeah, it's, again, what you're talking about is what I have is enough, more is a bonus.

00:45:34.45
Lyndon
For sure.

00:45:34.89
smacey
Yeah, that's a hard place to get to. It's just simple and easy are two different things.

00:45:39.98
Lyndon
I appreciate hearing that. I've never heard that it was like a hard mindset to get to before.

00:45:45.65
aaronmannes
Yeah.

00:45:45.68
smacey
Well, i'm i'm you i I'm trying to think of everyone possible who is listening. For some, I'm sure it's a spectrum. Other people are like, totally get it. Yeah, that's how I live my life. And others are probably like, what? I can't imagine being happy without achieving things or without you know accomplishment, et cetera, et cetera, without having a $5,000 watch. might like It's a large spectrum, right? So I think it is hard in these episodes to try and speak to everyone, but I like episodes like this where maybe there's a cluster of people who are like, you know what? I needed that.

00:46:21.82
aaronmannes
Mm hmm.

00:46:22.82
smacey
I needed to hear that today. And often people write in all the time. They say, I heard this exactly. It was so, the timing was so weird. And I always say, no, it wasn't. It really wasn't like you, you notice what you go looking for, right?

00:46:38.76
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:46:40.36
aaronmannes
Yeah.

00:46:41.77
Lyndon
And even with that mindset, just going to the what Erin was talking about, like my area, I will say that's been another mindset thing. I live in such a weird area for wildlife where people don't even think to come here. like I'm very rural Alberta, I live in a tiny town and it just it's like flat around me is what people think but ah just going out and exploring and thinking like no there's more to it you find there's just these incredible badlands areas, there's a huge abundance of wildlife and migratory birds and it's like it's the most exciting piece of land that you know that's why I love to share in my stories too I get a lot of messages from people just saying like thank you for showing the beauty in the world and thank you for showing me like how beautiful this area is and just it's

00:47:36.91
Lyndon
That sort of thing is what really makes me happy and what kind of validates stuff for me too. I love to share that with people and show it off, but it's such a unique area. and

00:47:48.69
Lyndon
Yeah, I don't know. It's been a mindset shift for me though, cause I thought, like I always thought, i oh, I have to go to the mountains. I have to go get the bears. I have to go find moose there. That's the only place I'm ever going to see moose. And then lo and behold, it's like two minutes out of my town, I go driving and there's a giant bull moose just running by. Then I realized my area is like huge for moose and I go to the mountains and I can't even find one moose because there's so many trees and they hide in the mountains. So it's like, it's glad that I,

00:48:16.53
aaronmannes
Right.

00:48:16.79
smacey
Right.

00:48:19.17
Lyndon
sort of notice that and realize that about my own area.

00:48:22.38
aaronmannes
It's really true.

00:48:22.50
smacey
Yeah.

00:48:22.90
aaronmannes
And a a similar story is being in Connecticut, ah very similar, like that that feeling of like, oh, we're not in we're not in Colorado, Wyoming, can't like, we're not a West.

00:48:32.54
Lyndon
yeah

00:48:34.32
aaronmannes
It's so easy. And I think wildlife out East is a different sort of and Sport man, maybe ah I'm completely wrong, but it it just has like a different flavor to it You don't have those huge pockets of like the Tetons or Yellowstone you have you have like it's kind of like luck or you know your little spot but something that really hit me was sort of like this um I don't know this down mindset of like I have to travel to go get a wildlife.

00:48:49.60
Lyndon
Yeah. Yeah.

00:49:02.83
aaronmannes
And I put a trail cam in my backyard on one lone tree that looks towards the woods and in like a week I was going through, there were two coyotes, a fox and a family went through, a raccoon, a possum, like almost everything you could possibly have. ah And that's just my backyard where I've never gone and sit to take photos.

00:49:25.25
Lyndon
Have a nice one.

00:49:25.58
aaronmannes
And it just kind of hit me as like, okay, it's not about the place. It's about the time and the effort and the the time learning an environment, whether it's a thumbprint in your backyard, whether there's little birds, frogs, ah yeah anything, snakes, lizard, like whatever there is behind you, I guarantee if you have a little piece of land, a little piece of wooded area that you can get to, there is a hole small environment of animals and things that you can sit and take really amazing photos of.

00:50:01.99
aaronmannes
It doesn't have to be the grizzly bear that's growling at you 10 feet away in Alaska.

00:50:07.20
Lyndon
with forty other people

00:50:07.41
aaronmannes
Seth, with 40 other people, well we'll be there and we'll enjoy it.

00:50:10.23
Lyndon
in

00:50:12.50
aaronmannes
But I'm just saying, those trips are wonderful.

00:50:12.57
Lyndon
yeah

00:50:15.60
aaronmannes
But there's ah there's a lot of other things they can go on.

00:50:19.37
smacey
Right.

00:50:19.55
Lyndon
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I would love to go take pictures of bears in Alaska.

00:50:19.75
aaronmannes
Like right in your back.

00:50:23.32
Lyndon
It's not like I don't want to. It's just, you gotta realize, like, work with what you have around you and try to really appreciate what's right around you and close to home and sort of show that a off. And people, people love it. They think it's really cool and it's sort of, like, unique instead of always seeing the same, like, those I think it's a funny thing with wildlife photographers. I don't know if you guys have noticed it, but it seems like when you first start, you're like, I got to get the big mammals, the bears, so the cats, the moose, the deer and all that. And then the longer you go, you're kind of like, I don't know, I think I just switched to birds partially because it's like you can only take like, don't get me wrong, I take pictures of moose all the time.

00:50:54.89
smacey
Mm hmm.

00:51:04.20
Lyndon
But you can it seems like you can only get so many different scenes with them and they all kind of look the same. Then you realize like wow birds are really cool and each one is unique and has its own um story and reason for existing and stuff like that and you can just it's really fun. I love wildlife photography for that.

00:51:24.36
aaronmannes
Mm

00:51:26.12
smacey
I'm sitting here thinking too, I mean, what we're talking about is being an expert in your area. geographically, but also I wanted to bring this up because we're talking about wildlife a lot. If we're, if there's portrait of photographers listening or car photographers or sports or even landscape, I mean, be an expert in your local region.

00:51:44.48
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:51:44.66
smacey
You can be an ex, if you're in a cornfield in Illinois, and that's your, you got corn fields for, for miles and miles.

00:51:44.74
aaronmannes
hmm.

00:51:52.72
smacey
I mean, you got some awesome potential to capture some sweet storms or

00:51:56.32
Lyndon
yeah

00:51:56.83
aaronmannes
Mmhmm.

00:51:57.61
smacey
You know, the, if we're talking about wildlife, the nuanced wildlife of that area, if you're in another place, maybe there's a certain scene. Maybe you're by the coast in California. Maybe there's a, you can niche down and have that backdrop for all the cars you take rolling shots of. I mean, there's so many different ways to kind of just be an expert in your area.

00:52:22.01
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:52:22.77
aaronmannes
Yeah. And you can get spoiled by your area and hey I'm spoiled by New England fall, you know, like growing up, I was like, this is annoying.

00:52:27.93
smacey
Yeah, every place has got something.

00:52:31.12
aaronmannes
Like everyone's going to look at leaves. What the hell are we doing here? Like, what are we doing traffic for leaves?

00:52:37.61
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:52:37.76
aaronmannes
And then you, you like, Oh, wait a minute. This is like, this is sought after and the whole world wants to see it.

00:52:42.02
smacey
Yeah.

00:52:43.55
aaronmannes
Okay. That's interesting. I have a new perspective and I think it's the same thing with. I remember going out west and seeing magpies for the first time and taking photos, taking photos of like how cool they were and like, how like bossy and weird and angry they were.

00:52:50.29
smacey
Yeah, me too.

00:52:58.12
aaronmannes
And people are like, those things suck. Like don't, don't even bother. And I'm like, no, like I've never seen one like there.

00:53:03.01
smacey
Yeah.

00:53:03.59
aaronmannes
It's awesome. Or like mountain jays or like anything like that, uh, that we don't have over here.

00:53:04.73
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:53:09.42
aaronmannes
So the, the Robin or the Cardinal might be a ah bird that someone in, I don't know where, uh, Africa might not ever have seen and be like, Oh, a fully red Cardinal. I got to check my Cardinal facts. I don't know where they all live, but, uh, you get my point is that like, what we think is like an ordinary thing, you know, a gray squirrel might be like to someone else, like, Holy, like that is a, what is that animal?

00:53:34.19
smacey
Yeah.

00:53:35.80
aaronmannes
That's really cool. I'm going to check this, check this out a little bit further.

00:53:39.11
Lyndon
about Instagram sometimes too. I think you have people from all over the world following you. So yeah, you get those messages like, I've never seen that before. This is so interesting. And you're like, Oh, really? Well, it's in in my backyard.

00:53:51.84
smacey
I commented that on your yellowheaded blackbirds post. I said, I have never seen these birds before.

00:53:54.48
Lyndon
oh

00:53:55.88
smacey
And then I went to Saskatchewan. I was there last week or two weeks ago and I see yellowheaded blackbirds and I was freaking out.

00:53:58.91
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:54:02.74
smacey
I was like, Haley, look at those birds. And she missed them.

00:54:06.13
aaronmannes
Yeah.

00:54:06.22
smacey
And then I saw pronghorns and I was like, whoa, I was freaking out.

00:54:09.04
Lyndon
other

00:54:10.27
smacey
And then they're everywhere.

00:54:11.62
Lyndon
I was going to ask you how that was in Saskatchewan, you had a good trip.

00:54:14.36
smacey
It was awesome. I'm still storying them now because I had no service. And I also like people to think that I'm still there so that they don't bother me. No, I'm just kidding. I delay rollout. I like I'm delayed and rolling out stories um because I want to share. I want to share, but I don't want it to take away from the moment.

00:54:29.30
aaronmannes
know

00:54:31.51
smacey
So I always, I always delay stories on trips.

00:54:34.64
Lyndon
Yeah, that's gotta to be something I'm bad for, for sure. I just, I'm i'm excited to share.

00:54:39.92
smacey
Which is good, which is good. I just know myself that. something on the home feed will be really interesting and grab my attention after I post the story and it's just like better not, you know, better not.

00:54:43.58
Lyndon
you may

00:54:48.62
aaronmannes
Yeah. Yeah.

00:54:50.83
Lyndon
And I wanted to speak to what we're talking about, like being spoiled by your area and just the ordinary things. I think with, um like, of course my genre is wildlife photography, but I think a lot of people don't realize how like how fun it can be to take those ordinary ones and then try to do something different or unique or practice your craft on like mule deer for example I just I can take pictures of them all the time and just constantly try to get something a little bit different and eventually it's I know it's going to be a really interesting photo not just a deer but

00:55:11.17
aaronmannes
Mm

00:55:27.51
smacey
Right.

00:55:27.55
Lyndon
that can really help you master your craft for then when you do find a bobcat you're able to get the eye and focus right away or you're able to jump into action right away because you've been practicing on other animals so much that you see all the time.

00:55:37.37
aaronmannes
hmm.

00:55:39.77
smacey
Yeah.

00:55:40.60
aaronmannes
Yeah. And I've always said wildlife or maybe any genre, but wildlife especially takes multiples of three, like three, but it might take a few times in each stage to get there. So number one, you have to like know an animal is there, right? Like you have to find an area and then be like, Oh, there, I just saw a coyote cross. So they're here. I didn't get a photo. And then number two is like, try to get there at the right time. and get the photo and then number three the third stage and and two might take a week you know to to get that first photo then stage three is like i want to really challenge myself where's the sunset uh there's this log crossing the bridge right here i've seen him cross it a few times this would be perfect at sunset i'm going to set up for this one shot and that might take

00:56:25.32
aaronmannes
forever. It might never happen but like challenging yourself to create the photo. I think that's tough in wildlife to actually create a composition um and you can do that much easier in your backyard with

00:56:34.65
Lyndon
The shirt.

00:56:39.62
aaronmannes
common animals that you see most of the time. You know you can you can set things up and and find patterns and seed patterns. Animals really follow patterns. and And if you pay attention and if you're out there, you can see a lot of those things unfold and and get an idea.

00:56:53.17
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:56:58.66
smacey
Very well said.

00:56:59.86
aaronmannes
I gotta be honest right now, and this is gonna be great content. The, I have a swarm of flying ants that just came in and is like hovering around this light the entire episode. You would not know because I am so, my mindset is just so calm and cool, but I am freaking out inside because they're crawling all over my class right now. Let me hold this up. Can you see it? See that little guy? He's on top.

00:57:30.73
Lyndon
Yeah, kind of.

00:57:32.43
smacey
You're not a bug guy, huh?

00:57:34.30
aaronmannes
Well, it's fine, but there's like, I don't know where they came from and they're all around and I'm like getting itchy.

00:57:43.65
Lyndon
Get the macro out, get some pictures.

00:57:44.22
aaronmannes
All right. I digress.

00:57:47.39
smacey
Yeah. Get the macro out.

00:57:48.64
aaronmannes
Yeah. yeah

00:57:50.21
smacey
I always loved the direction episodes ago. I use them like, I have no idea where we're going. Talked about a lot of cool stuff today and then flying ants.

00:57:58.45
Lyndon
Yeah.

00:57:58.93
aaronmannes
They're ruining it. They're ruining it for me. Okay. I will, I will maintain. I just had to let that out and understand. I don't know if things are on the lens or like flying through, like they're on my face. So I don't want to act like a, like a psychopath.

00:58:11.96
Lyndon
you

00:58:14.73
aaronmannes
There's no reaction to ants everywhere.

00:58:16.59
smacey
They're on your eyeball. You're just don't even break.

00:58:17.84
aaronmannes
Yeah.

00:58:19.43
smacey
Don't don't even break your thought.

00:58:20.05
aaronmannes
It don't break. Don't break thought. No.

00:58:23.04
smacey
Oh man.

00:58:23.37
aaronmannes
Uh, but yeah. So that's my disclaimer for today's episode.

00:58:24.68
smacey
You're funny.

00:58:27.20
smacey
Good stuff. Well, I'm people would have had to have gotten through 58 minutes or however long of the YouTube before you even let them know that that was the case.

00:58:28.61
aaronmannes
and

00:58:35.77
smacey
So people could think you're an absolute psychopath for that long.

00:58:37.25
Lyndon
You're good.

00:58:38.66
smacey
If you have them on your face and I, and you're just not even twitching.

00:58:39.07
aaronmannes
That's true.

00:58:41.70
aaronmannes
Yep. Well, that's why you got to listen to the end.

00:58:45.14
smacey
That's why you got to subscribe to the YouTube so you can see bugs on Aaron's face.

00:58:45.15
Lyndon
She.

00:58:48.18
smacey
Potentially. No promises.

00:58:49.95
aaronmannes
ah Yeah. Zoom in.

00:58:51.03
smacey
Shameless blog. Link in episode description.

00:58:51.70
aaronmannes
4K. 4K.

00:58:54.71
smacey
Uh, I got nothing else. Do you guys have any things you want to touch on?

00:58:59.91
aaronmannes
We're going to end on the flying ants.

00:59:01.38
smacey
Yeah. Just to embarrass you now.

00:59:02.94
aaronmannes
ah Yeah. one lyn

00:59:03.76
smacey
Why don't you, why don't we wrap up with some content or some, some concluding thoughts?

00:59:04.76
aaronmannes
linen

00:59:08.03
aaronmannes
Yeah, concluding thoughts. We like to ask this question, and I think it's a good way to end an episode, especially after ah an annoying break by me um that kind of ruined the flow. ah But to get back to it, i if you were to tell your younger self any sort of advice or tips getting into photography, I think I know where this is going to go because you, to me, have lived that in in terms of your entire tenure of photography. But I'd like to hear, maybe you've thought of this before, maybe there's some sort of thing that you would tell your younger self or tell a younger photographer that's starting up, ah getting into them the game, of whether it's wildlife or anything else, what would you say to yourself when you're just starting out?

00:59:55.01
Lyndon
um i guess one of the biggest things i learned was that like it's it's you gotta practice a lot to get to where you want to be like it's not just photography especially a lot of people just think you've got to buy a camera and just go shoot with it, which I do think is the first step to figuring out what kind of camera you need, what kind of photography you're going to be into. like i I really tell people go and shoot everything, like take pictures of people, take pictures of

01:00:29.74
Lyndon
landscapes, cars, wildlife, like go to the zoo, just flowers, everything. Just see what you're actually really into and what pulls your passion and then go with that. Because even me, like I for a while I was doing portrait photography and it was a lot just like to bring in an income because people will easily pay for and anyone to take their portrait. You can you can do that from the lowest level to the highest level depending what you charge and people will hire you. but to be really good at it and to, you know, end up being able to charge more or to sell your prints for more or whatever it may be, you got to get out there and shoot and practice and just keep like, you just have to keep going. I hear some photographers say like, Oh, I'm just not happy with any of my shots. And I just want to say, keep shooting then like go out and keep going until you are happy because eventually you're going to figure out what you did wrong in this area and what you need to fix in that area. And

01:01:28.88
Lyndon
And I love what you were saying too about how it's like in threes because that's so true. And the third option, um, like you said, can maybe never come true or can take years. And so when people ask me for my special little spots where I found all the snowy owls this winter and I'm just cringe because I'm like, that took me like six years to figure out that certain spot. And it was like the only one that had snowy owls in my area and I did not want to share it. So it's like,

01:01:57.29
smacey
Right.

01:01:57.32
aaronmannes
Yeah.

01:01:58.03
smacey
Do your own homework.

01:01:59.20
Lyndon
Yeah, it takes a lot of work, too, I would tell the other stuff. You gotta put in the time and the work to figure anything out, too. So you gotta be really into it and be dedicated to it. But at the same time, to get anywhere, for me, I'm just happy, and I really like getting better at my craft, so yeah.

01:02:20.43
aaronmannes
Yeah. Practice. We say it all the time.

01:02:22.51
Lyndon
Also, I think photography is a really good um hobby or passion or job for anyone to get into because it's just always about looking for beauty and whatever it is, like landscape, people, wildlife. You're just constantly on the search for beauty. And I think that's like what kind of hobby, other hobby is there like that? Like photography is one on its own that way, so. I think it's, I encourage anyone to grab a camera and get out there and shoot everything and it can really inspire you to do cool things. Like even a couple years ago, I did my first solo camping trip and I never would have done that if I wasn't into, I really wanted to find the great gray owls and I had to go, no one was into it really in my life and just going for it was like exciting and it was rewarding and I'm really proud of myself and that's like,

01:03:17.32
aaronmannes
Love

01:03:17.40
Lyndon
ah was a boost that way so photography did that for me not you know yeah oh thanks for having me hopefully it was good and good concept

01:03:21.40
aaronmannes
that.

01:03:24.78
smacey
Well said. Linden, thanks for joining us today.

01:03:26.92
aaronmannes
Yeah, thank you.

01:03:31.83
smacey
I enjoyed it.

01:03:32.75
aaronmannes
Yeah, that was great. it's definitely ah It's definitely a breath of fresh air, I think. And um that's kind of what we've been touching on and felt like you were a great guest to fit into that and and talk to talk about it a little bit deeper. So thank you.

01:03:47.30
Lyndon
awesome

01:03:48.60
smacey
All right.

01:03:48.81
Lyndon
right

01:03:49.64
smacey
Thanks both for your time. Until next time.

01:03:52.31
aaronmannes
Take care.

01:03:52.84
smacey
See ya.

01:04:08.78
Lyndon
Awesome.

01:04:15.32
Lyndon
All right.