The Importance of Being Relatable in Photography with Jessica Sanchez

Audiences relate to photographers they can personally connect with. It's also difficult to envision yourself in a field or industry if you don't feel represented. Expect to learn in this episode with Jessy Sanchez (@ourworldwithjessy) how to get over your self limiting belief when you feel underrepresented in an industry, why being relatable is important to audiences, why vulnerability and honesty is valued by audiences, how we can encourage people of all kinds to participate in photography, and much more!

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@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

INTRO:

00:08.56
smacey
Hey, welcome back to another episode of the photographer mindset podcast. I'm your co-host Seth Macey.

00:12.54
aaronmannes
I'm your co-host Aaron Mannes.

00:13.97
smacey
You like this low gravelly raspy voice today.

00:16.34
aaronmannes
It is literally my favorite.

00:16.96
smacey
This is my sick voice. This is my.

00:19.09
aaronmannes
I don't know how we keep that, but we gotta.

00:21.89
smacey
This is my sick voice. I know, we made jokes, I'm gonna have to start licking doorknobs and eating strangers Kleenex is just so I stay sick always because you like the rasp.

00:30.49
aaronmannes
It just has a warmth to it. A little distortion. It's like a tube amp.

00:35.44
smacey
Oh, well, I'm glad you like him. I appreciate the feedback, but I would like to feel better.

00:38.72
aaronmannes
Yeah.

00:40.24
smacey
Anyways, today we had on Jesse Sanchez. This was an excellent episode. She is a travel and adventure photographer out of Colorado. And I think today's episode was all about kind of relatability and how important that is in this industry. What ah what are some takeaways? What can people expect to learn in your opinion? What did you learn?

00:57.01
aaronmannes
I just think the the most important thing that I learned from this episode was we all have these internal battles and despite our skin color, ethnicity, religion, upbringing, socio-economic status, whatever whatever we feel like are limiting factors, we have this internal battle to kind of succeed or get out there and and and make a path for ourselves. And she really nicely, I think, described that sort of journey for herself without being pushy, without being, you know, and know it all, just kind of really from a calm place.

01:33.97
smacey
Mm hmm.

01:40.97
aaronmannes
said Like, this was my journey, and this is what I want. And this is what I hope other people learn from it. And I i' really took from it a lot.

01:49.33
smacey
Yeah and I think especially so people can I think learn the power and the impact of relatability, vulnerability, being honest, highlighting the lows as well as the highs especially on social media because that brings a sense of community. I'm sure it brings followers too but that's you know a bonus. um I think ah that it'll be a really driven home that how important that is as a whole. so Without further ado, let's get into it. First, go and subscribe to our YouTube channel. You can watch these these episodes with a video, which maybe that's your thing. Maybe you don't want to see us. That's fine too.

02:26.55
aaronmannes
Even if you don't want to see us, go subscribe.

02:29.34
smacey
Yeah, it helps us out a lot.

02:30.70
aaronmannes
No, it does help us out.

02:30.75
smacey
um well

02:31.62
aaronmannes
Thank you. The the episodes are fun. we There's little Easter eggs usually in them. ah You get to see the artist photographer photography that's on there. um It's more for the visual person.

02:46.13
smacey
Yeah.

02:46.38
aaronmannes
You know you can play it in your car as well. Don't look at it while you're driving, but you can play the audio through there.

02:50.79
smacey
Hell no.

02:53.30
aaronmannes
um But yeah, subscribe, get it going, get YouTube. As a subscription as well. Why not get commercial free?

03:00.91
smacey
Yeah, we'd dep appreciate it. We'd appreciate it. and All right.

03:03.50
aaronmannes
Thank you

03:03.63
smacey
Word from our sponsor and then we're getting right into today's episode.

INTERVIEW:

00:49.14
smacey
Right off the bat, how do you pave a path in the industry when you don't feel like you can relate to anyone? Saw your pin, like your first pinned profile posts on your Instagram, where you mentioned how you felt kind of both unworthy and incapable. And what a topic to get into because I feel like whether we sometimes have those thoughts screaming at us or whether they're kind of more covert and hidden. I feel like we can all deal with that from time to time. And just back to my original question, how do you pave a path in the industry when you don't feel like you can relate to anyone?

01:27.78
Jessy Sanchez
Honestly, a lot of it has to do with... ah ah moving forward with feeling and self-confidence. I feel like a lot of that, it's a lot of balance, right? And I think being open about it helps um because a lot of people, I feel like a lot of people feel the same way, but they're scared to talk about it.

01:39.14
smacey
Thank you.

01:50.22
Jessy Sanchez
And so for me personally, my story is Um, you know, I, I wanted to pursue a creative path. I've been the creative my whole life ever since I was a little girl, but honestly, once I started looking online, I never saw anybody who looked like me successful. And so for me, it wasn't, my question wasn't, was. can't It wasn't, um, can I do this? Was I capable of it? I knew I was. It was, can I be successful because of, you know, the way I looked.

02:23.20
Jessy Sanchez
I never saw anyone online that looked like me that was successful. And so it's just kind of going with it, just doing it and trial and error and yeah, and just getting feedback. So I have

02:36.80
smacey
So when you say look like you, are you just to just to clarify for listeners, what are you referring to?

02:42.41
Jessy Sanchez
ah Well, it's not just physical. um I'm Latin. I'm a first-generation Mexican-American girl, woman, um and so dark hair, you know, dark skin, um bilingual Spanish and English, but also my background. Both my parents work in factories and my dad's, he has second grade education. And so I don't have that

03:04.87
smacey
Wow.

03:07.81
Jessy Sanchez
I don't have a lot of people that I can relate to or that they talk about their background that I can relate to. And so I like to show, you know, where I came from, how I grew up, my upbringing, and then my current journey and trying to, quote unquote, make it in this industry, whatever that means, right? Because everyone's success is different.

03:29.58
smacey
Yeah, well, before I ask more questions, what's making it to you?

03:33.18
Jessy Sanchez
Well for me, I think honestly it's just making a good living out of it. Being able to do what I like to do and that's just being creative whether that is photography or content creation or even um working as a freelancer, right? Because I feel like ah another big conversation that a lot of people I feel like don't have is the difference between the content creator and the photographer. That line gets blurred really often online.

04:00.93
smacey
Mmm.

04:04.46
Jessy Sanchez
And so for the longest time, I had this crisis identity of, am I a photographer or am I a content creator? What am I? And I kept going back and forth. And so um I rather be a photographer. I've worked with clients, cabins, friends, and and But at the same time, when they post the my things online, I start to blur into the content creator you know part of me. And especially when they started sharing more of my background and um my journey of trying to pursue a creative career. And so, but I think that, you know, nowadays,

04:43.74
Jessy Sanchez
um It's okay if both of them are joined because, again, I think there needs to be more diverse voices in the creative, in the outdoor creative space.

04:55.12
smacey
Right. Just backpedaling a bit too. You mentioned your father had a second grade education.

04:57.28
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

05:02.47
smacey
How do you because I can see what you're seeing your potential. Correct me if I'm wrong. You're saying when you're looking around and you're seeing nobody who's kind of in the position that you want to get to. It's tough to I guess imagine yourself getting there and you have doubts and you question if what you're doing is silly if it's even possible.

05:18.79
Jessy Sanchez
exactly well it's funny yeah right um i mean honestly it's just i think for me it's been honing in on my craft i have

05:19.85
smacey
How do you get out of that bubble?

05:26.38
smacey
In your experience, all you can share is your experience, right?

05:43.94
Jessy Sanchez
learned how to take photographs. I have learned how to create videos. I have learned all of these things. Every time I have worked with clients, they have um they have given me positive feedback. And so for me, getting out of that bubble is just honing in on that craft. Not only, um you know, talking about my story, but actually being able to show that I can do the work and and that that for me inspires me that I can do it. And so it's kind of a weird mental game to be quite honest this with you.

06:17.08
Jessy Sanchez
There's not really an answer for that.

06:17.42
smacey
Mm

06:19.65
Jessy Sanchez
It's just kind of a journey that whenever I do feel like I can't do it, I just kind of have to shut those voices and those thoughts and just go for it, you know, experiment, fail and try again and get feedback. And yeah, I mean, it's It's really hard, and I think that that's why there's not a firm answer because it's something I'm still currently working through.

06:43.48
smacey
hmm

06:47.59
Jessy Sanchez
But I just continue on.

06:47.60
smacey
Right.

06:49.79
Jessy Sanchez
I mean, um that's kind of how I how we move forward. I hope that answered the question.

06:56.62
smacey
Well, it's yeah, it's sometimes questions like this are tough to put into words. It sounds what you mentioned, and I want to kind of highlight for listeners too, is that I think you mentioned at the very beginning is that people tell me I do a good job. And it's one of those things where where no matter how many times you do a great job, there's still that little, are you good enough?

07:11.97
Jessy Sanchez
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.

07:19.52
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

07:19.70
smacey
Are you good enough? Right. And what you're talking about is, is really honing in on and, and really, uh, I guess focusing intensely on that feedback as a mechanism to say, as a validator in a good way.

07:41.80
Jessy Sanchez
Mm hmm.

07:42.71
smacey
Right. Routinely people are telling me I do a good job. It's almost like a constant reminder to ourselves that Others are vocally telling us that we are capable. And if you continually remind you, that's why this is why like I tell people you need to write down on paper or in a Google doc, a stack of proof of the things you've done that you are who you say you are. Because then when you go back and you read it, those voices in your head can't compete. Those negative voices, it becomes inarguable that you are a competent, skilled and capable person.

08:16.20
Jessy Sanchez
Mm-hmm, exactly. And yeah, I feel like that in itself um does answer a lot. I mean, yeah, like I said, it's it's still a journey, honestly. I mean, i it's ah that's why I love talking about this because not a lot of people do.

08:34.71
smacey
Right.

08:38.25
Jessy Sanchez
And I know a lot of people feel this way because I have um people from my own community that reach out and say, Thank you for for sharing so and so or talking about this, like that post that you were talking about um earlier. Yeah, a lot of people, when you think about the outdoor adventure space, you don't think of a Latin American woman. You think of something else. And I feel like anytime I have worked with brands or anything like that, um

09:12.10
Jessy Sanchez
I always choose models. I try to be intentional about the models that I choose to be inclusive and diverse because we do need a lot more of that. And if you don't see yourself, um when you see more of your people like yourself online, you feel less invincible and you feel more capable. And that's the message that I'm just trying to share.

09:33.94
smacey
Yeah, Aaron, one more question. then I'll let you hop in because I know you're festering and I know you are.

09:37.41
aaronmannes
Yeah, I am. You're making me be quiet.

09:40.21
smacey
Yeah, I know. I'm just I'm just I'm throwing it out there that I'm conscious of it.

09:42.06
aaronmannes
It's fine.

09:43.45
smacey
I'm visually acknowledged.

09:44.48
aaronmannes
I gotta tell you, i'm I'm enjoying your voice.

09:47.12
smacey
Yeah, the sick voice.

09:47.14
aaronmannes
um So just keep it going.

09:50.10
smacey
The sick voice.

09:50.63
Jessy Sanchez
but Yeah.

09:50.80
smacey
How low can we go?

09:51.28
aaronmannes
Keep it going. Talk closer to the mic.

09:55.96
smacey
Well, Jesse, why do you think you post, you know, you post a piece of content or a photo where you're talking about not feeling like you can relate to people or or or whatever topic. And it's amazing how many people come crawling out of their shell and into the comments mentioning, yeah, I'm so glad you talked about this. And I feel like, You're like, where did this come from? I didn't know this many people were feeling this way. Why do you feel like what do you feel like people don't want to talk about it?

10:19.11
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

10:22.00
smacey
Do you think it's because? Is it the but classic case of everyone needing to be amazing and epic online? Is that what it is? Or is it something else?

10:31.31
Jessy Sanchez
I think it's a little bit of two things. One being, and I can speak to this for myself, I'm not gonna lie for the longest time I held back. And one of the reasons is because I felt like I wasn't worthy of being the person to talk about or one of many, right? And there's, I felt like I still have so much to learn myself. that sometimes I never felt good enough to speak on the topic. And so yeah, it's a little scary to put yourself on this pedestal and have people asking you questions and you just hope you don't. You say the right things as far as for the community and the people you're trying to represent.

11:14.43
Jessy Sanchez
and give voice to and yeah and then second is it's just it's uncomfortable anytime you share anything vulnerable about yourself you're putting yourself out there on the internet where of course you know it's the scary in internet people can say anything and i have had you know quote unquote trolls and haters but at the same time it it is

11:16.23
smacey
Yeah.

11:37.76
Jessy Sanchez
me and it is something that I feel passionate about and I think that it's important to just speak on. And so I think that that's why a lot of people don't speak on it. But if they see somebody speaking on it, it empowers them that it's okay and they it gives them a little bit of courage for them to start stepping up as well.

11:48.68
smacey
Yeah.

11:58.29
smacey
Yeah, you're talking about speaking on. People feel like they need to be an expert on something before that they can share, I feel like, and that's not true.

12:06.83
Jessy Sanchez
yeah

12:08.50
smacey
It's it's better to say here's what I'm learning.

12:09.02
Jessy Sanchez
No.

12:12.96
smacey
Versus here's what I'm sure of.

12:16.80
Jessy Sanchez
yes exactly yeah it's the whole i'm not an expert on it i don't think i'm good enough i don't think i'm ready to speak on whatever topic it is whether it is you know um speaking on diversity in the outdoor creative space or something else is like photography right um i am a photographer myself and i work with clients but and i've had uh people come to me for photography advice but of course i I feel hesitant to give the advice myself because I'm still learning myself and so it's one of those things where um it's it's always a little scary to speak on whatever topic it is especially if you're still learning on yourself but at the same time you know you're on the journey and you're a lot you know two steps forward and maybe the next person behind you and so it's just one of those things that comes with online community so

12:50.23
smacey
right

12:58.10
smacey
Right.

13:11.16
smacey
Aaron, I pause.

13:14.19
aaronmannes
Yeah, well, I've been listening a lot and it's I love it all. um Just observing and listening. There's a there's a good proportion of things that you're saying that are coming from within, like I think or where i I feel this way or I so I'm curious in terms of the battle that we all have where it's

13:21.76
Jessy Sanchez
Thank

13:37.49
aaronmannes
there's there's a proportion of things that are made up in our own heads or we're worried about in our own heads versus reality.

13:41.58
Jessy Sanchez
you.

13:44.29
aaronmannes
And then you post something, is there support with your posts as well? ah You mentioned, you did just mention some trolls. I was wondering, my question was going to be, how many actual obstacles have you come up against versus the fear of like, I'm in unchartered territory, but it's been pretty supportive versus I'm in unchartered territory and everyone wants me to sink the ship. You know, so i I was just curious in terms of our own brains, like this is the mindset, the photographer's mindset.

14:07.43
Jessy Sanchez
Yes.

14:13.92
aaronmannes
And a lot of times our own brains hold us back from reaching or taking that leap or doing things. I'm not asking for necessarily like a percentage, but do you feel like there is a a learning curve as you go? Like, Oh, I was so scared, but it was only 50% of what I was afraid of or 20% of what I was afraid of. You know what I'm saying?

14:35.95
Jessy Sanchez
yeah Yeah, no, I hear you. You know, i I would say that since I've started sharing and being more open and vulnerable online, um I've gotten a lot more support than I thought. um And a lot of people I have a lot of people that actually relate, whether they are of the same background as as myself or not, they all relate in some way or another. um And so it may not be, for example, my Latin background, but it may come from a woman, a female background. Because again, I had a friend not too long ago

15:19.59
Jessy Sanchez
tell me that she was on Instagram and she was searching, you know, on the people you may know. um She was going through the the people that she can follow and most of the photographers were white men. And so she was trying to look for a female photographer and so that was just one aspect of how she can relate to me. um and But yeah, for for the most part, I've gotten mostly positive feedback A lot of people are really happy that I am speaking on this. I've had um brands talk to me and tell me that they are really trying to be more inclusive and diverse. I think that's just the space that we're trying to move into. So um yeah, I think that's really important.

16:06.06
aaronmannes
Yeah, that answers it. And I definitely I think that is absolutely true. And Seth and I have run into that with companies we've worked with to like, it's a it's a huge push um for diverse clients and and

16:16.97
Jessy Sanchez
Mmhmm.

16:21.03
aaronmannes
all people, really, not just, you know, ah supermodels that are using their stuff, but a widespread of everyone.

16:23.41
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

16:32.66
aaronmannes
um where Everyone is purchasing these things they want to promote to everyone.

16:35.69
Jessy Sanchez
Mmhmm.

16:38.64
aaronmannes
Everyone deserves a chance to be, you know, part of the story, I think is is how they would say it. So um definitely, we've we've seen that as well. So in your In your journey, ah I guess my next question would be, now that I'm up, I'm taking over, Seth can rest his voice.

16:59.61
Jessy Sanchez
okay

17:01.40
aaronmannes
My next question would be, how fast does confidence build?

17:07.80
Jessy Sanchez
Mm-hmm.

17:07.83
aaronmannes
in this journey, how fast does your security with self, your ability to see like, Oh, I do have a voice and I can do this. How quickly does that take to build? And are you still in the, do you feel like you have ways to go? Do you feel like you're running at full tilt? Where are you in that process? Um, as I'm sure it's been an evolving process.

17:32.29
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah, a husband. Honestly, I think that confidence comes with more experience and more and just more of putting yourself out there. um Of course, I feel more confident now because I'm speaking on it um than I was when I started about four years ago. And I think that surrounding yourself with other people that you can have those safe spaces to talk about and having them hear you like, for example, this podcast, and that's why I'm very grateful

18:07.26
Jessy Sanchez
to have this conversation with you guys. And that's what gives me confidence because people care. People want to listen. And and the I think that with time, the more that you know I continue my journey, my creative journey, the more people ask questions, the more I talk about it, that confidence is just going to build and build and build. And um there's not really a percentage or a time frame that you can put on when you can get confident. Just like with anything, you know when you first start photography, you're not confident in the beginning because you don't know what you're doing. You don't know what questions to ask. It's not until you finally start playing with the craft, you start asking the right questions. You start hearing the right conversations that that's when your confidence starts to build. um And yeah, I think that's kind of

18:58.99
Jessy Sanchez
been my journey and how my confidence has been growing. Am I still in the journey of trying to build my confidence? Absolutely. I think that that happens whether you're beginning or whether you're quote unquote, super advanced, whatever that means. um And so, yeah, I think that it's just important to just put yourself out there and just experiment and and have those conversations with the people who that care to to hear and to listen.

19:29.81
aaronmannes
Yeah, thank you.

19:29.83
smacey
You mentioned, uh, yeah, thanks. You mentioned knowing, like not knowing to ask the right questions, right?

19:37.98
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

19:38.38
smacey
When you're starting out in hindsight, what are some questions you knew, you wish you knew the answer to sooner in this industry?

19:46.99
Jessy Sanchez
Oh, man.

19:47.32
smacey
I mean, i'm I'm realizing that, and you know what, this is this is super speaking on relatability. I think these conversations are much more effective, these podcasts, when we're talking to people like yourself who are in the middle of the trail, as opposed to on the mountain peak.

20:04.63
Jessy Sanchez
Mm-hmm.

20:07.05
Jessy Sanchez
Yes.

20:07.80
smacey
If that makes sense.

20:08.37
Jessy Sanchez
Absolutely. Mm-hmm.

20:10.01
smacey
So when I asked this question, I realized there's always still so much to learn.

20:15.25
Jessy Sanchez
Yes.

20:15.38
smacey
But I'm curious in your opinion, those right questions, <unk> knowing to ask those right questions, what are some of those in hindsight you wish you had known sooner, if you could have as a beginner?

20:27.54
Jessy Sanchez
Oh man. Oh gosh. um I mean, oh man, putting me on the side now.

20:36.85
smacey
Am I putting you on the spot a bit?

20:38.79
aaronmannes
Yeah.

20:39.25
smacey
Well, maybe not even a specific question. Maybe just a topic you wish you had known more on right off the bat.

20:41.76
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

20:46.81
Jessy Sanchez
Uh...

20:47.27
smacey
Is that easier?

20:49.29
Jessy Sanchez
It is easier. I think, I guess if I wanted to start with the basic question is why is it important, right? Why isn't it important to talk about this? And for me it's, I felt very intimidated to even explore. I didn't start exploring the outdoors until I was 25. I didn't start camping until I was 25. And it's because I, didn't think and a lot of it I can say it comes from culture right there wasn't a lot of camping and outdoorsy whatever in in the Mexican culture and and I never even thought of

21:29.19
Jessy Sanchez
recreating outside because I didn't see more people of my culture being out there.

21:33.44
smacey
Right.

21:35.41
Jessy Sanchez
And so why does it matter? It's because there are people in either my culture or other cultures that want to be outside or or even want to be a photographer, be in the creative space. That's not really a career that's very much, you know, um advocated for it in the culture and I think that all these kind of conversations it's important to talk about and I think one of the questions is why it's important is because people do want to do this and so um I don't know I guess yeah I think that's why because there's other people that want to do it and whenever I don't even know how to answer this to be quite honest with you but

22:22.95
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah, I would say that that's one of the questions that I would start with.

22:27.47
smacey
I also kind of want to make note of this. Uh, I feel like on this topic when you're talking about miss or lack of representation or what have you, I think people sometimes get defensive and assume that you're blaming people, right? Or you're angry about this as opposed to you can correct me if I'm wrong.

22:44.84
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

22:48.29
smacey
It just sounds like, Hey, it's like I just would love to see more people represented that I can, that, uh, you know, that others can relate to like myself.

22:56.43
Jessy Sanchez
exactly yeah no there is no anger resentment anything like that i mean truly i don't think anyone does this intentionally i think it's just something that that's

22:58.08
smacey
Right? Like I don't hear a lot of hostility in your voice. Like they're not representing us and all this stuff, which I feel like people can jump to that conclusion very quickly. That just because you're saying all this stuff, it means you're pissed off or angry.

23:21.92
smacey
Right. The polarity is scary though, right?

23:22.65
Jessy Sanchez
um

23:23.99
smacey
Like it can head that direction quickly.

23:26.34
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah, I don't think that those conversations, just like this one, I feel like if there is a hostile ah so um conversation, it's hard to to to bring a message forward. And I think that whenever you do have an important message that you feel you want to share, it's important to talk about it in the comb and also just ah Respective manner right because you guys have questions you guys don't understand and I have questions I don't understand so I think that whenever um You aren't hostile you can have those safe conversations you have you feel like you have a ah safe space where you can have um ask the questions that you want and and Yeah, bring awareness to to the topic Yeah

24:15.11
smacey
Well, let me ask one right now that may, it's not maybe controversial or because in an effort to help me understand this, like you just said, so let's take company X, right?

24:21.78
Jessy Sanchez
Absolutely. Yeah.

24:25.98
Jessy Sanchez
Mm-hmm.

24:26.62
smacey
And 90% of their customers, let's say are white guys.

24:31.70
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

24:34.40
Jessy Sanchez
Mm-hmm.

24:35.52
smacey
And let's say they decide that they're um for their marketing campaign, 90% of their models and their apparel will be representative of their clients.

24:48.26
Jessy Sanchez
Right.

24:49.65
smacey
I see how that makes sense, but I also see from your point of view,

24:52.04
Jessy Sanchez
Yes.

24:55.58
smacey
how it would continue to limit exposure to maybe peoples of other culture who would otherwise want to be interested in that recreational activity or that piece of apparel. Do you know what I'm saying? It's kind of like a paradox where it may not make sense to represent with models in this situation in apparel

25:11.57
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah. Hmm.

25:20.49
smacey
because that's not the customer, but at the same time, we want to get more of those people into this record. Am I making sense? And what do you think of that?

25:28.78
Jessy Sanchez
I think that maybe that's why your customer isn't of that look because they're not seeing themselves there. They don't think that they are they even belong in that space, if that makes sense, because that's how I felt. It wasn't until finally I saw people that looked like me being represented in these magazines and these ads, whatever it may be, that I was like, oh,

25:50.40
smacey
Mm

25:57.78
Jessy Sanchez
Hey, I feel like I kind of belong in here. I kind of want to do this. And so you know in this ex-brand, it's white males, but maybe they don't have other you know male you know male color there because they're not they haven't provided a sense of safe space for these men to be part of this.

26:10.20
smacey
hmm.

26:19.96
smacey
or identity, right?

26:21.24
Jessy Sanchez
Yes, I hope that makes sense.

26:22.46
smacey
Yeah, yeah, it's just it's ah that that concept or paradox has always perplexed me.

26:28.34
Jessy Sanchez
yeah

26:28.37
smacey
And I guess the the only I guess could I'm someone who likes to be able to see measurable results like data. So I'd be i'm I'm wondering if these companies and I hope maybe somebody has insight on this to see if those campaigns that are more inclusive do bring more people. to To the ah whatever they're advertising if it's camping gear You know more people are camping.

26:53.24
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.

26:54.66
smacey
I don't know how you measure that maybe somebody knows but I just be curious to see if it To see the effect that it has I would would love to I and would love to see that I'm not saying it doesn't I'm not saying it does I'm just I would love to see it.

26:57.85
Jessy Sanchez
yeah

27:02.76
aaronmannes
Sure, it does.

27:02.97
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

27:03.48
aaronmannes
I'm sure it.

27:05.88
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

27:08.47
smacey
It'd be interesting

27:10.17
aaronmannes
I'm sure it feeds the just the whole cycle of it.

27:10.25
Jessy Sanchez
yeah

27:14.33
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

27:15.45
aaronmannes
I mean, I can think of a brand.

27:15.79
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

27:17.79
aaronmannes
ah I have no no ties to them. I just like them. Farity is a brand who their clothing, they have like middle aged models and I'm middle aged myself. And it goes ah your brain just goes like, oh, That works for that would work for me.

27:35.66
Jessy Sanchez
Yes.

27:35.71
aaronmannes
Right.

27:35.97
smacey
Right. Okay.

27:36.77
aaronmannes
So it just does click and then you look into it now. Now there's an affiliation like, Oh, you know, they're putting their clothes on 45 year old men.

27:45.75
Jessy Sanchez
Exactly.

27:46.16
aaronmannes
um'm Um, I'm getting that to that point. Like that's, that fits me. I'm not out of my league wearing that.

27:50.25
Jessy Sanchez
Right.

27:52.08
aaronmannes
I'm not trying to be a 20 year old wearing that. Like this is what it's intended for.

27:54.99
Jessy Sanchez
Exactly.

27:56.09
smacey
Right.

27:56.65
aaronmannes
Um, and I can see that with race or ethnicity as well.

27:56.95
Jessy Sanchez
Yes.

28:00.37
aaronmannes
Uh, For companies though that are branching out, like you said, 90%, let's say there's they have 100 customers just to make simple math. They could have 200 customers and maybe the percent goes down, but now you've added a whole new group or multiple groups, but just making simple math, you've added one more group.

28:14.38
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.

28:18.03
aaronmannes
Now you have 200 customers and it's 50-50, but you've you've just expanded your, that would be my my argument is like,

28:19.48
Jessy Sanchez
Mm-hmm.

28:26.52
smacey
Right.

28:27.59
aaronmannes
Yeah you're you're marketing really well to this one group but there's lots of groups there's lots of different kinds of people so why don't you do the same thing to all these people and then you're gonna have that much more sales.

28:33.46
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

28:41.32
Jessy Sanchez
Yes and I would also add to that you know a brand you know thinking about a brand sure we can talk about a clothing right like a clothing brand and so it's not just about the clothing and that's what I think I'm trying to touch on is that brand and representing more people

28:42.14
smacey
Right.

29:03.08
Jessy Sanchez
that brand represents an industry. It's an outdoor industry. And so that just provides a safe space and for other people being able to see themselves being able to be part of this industry, being able to go hiking, camping, whatever it may be. And so this brand with the clothing is just one piece of the puzzle. But if more brands are able to represent, then it's just this industry as a whole is just more inviting to whatever

29:31.85
smacey
That's what I was going to say. I would almost call it an invitation rather than a safe space and use the word inviting right there.

29:35.86
Jessy Sanchez
Yes.

29:37.53
smacey
Like, Hey, come hang out.

29:37.53
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

29:38.84
smacey
You're welcome.

29:38.93
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

29:39.77
smacey
You know?

29:39.81
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

29:40.97
aaronmannes
But it shows that it begs the question of how powerful marketing is.

29:41.06
smacey
Yeah.

29:45.36
Jessy Sanchez
Oh gosh, yes.

29:45.69
aaronmannes
um and mean I mean, this is a whole different episode, but in in terms of I don't have cable TV, but when I watch TV, I'm always like blown away at the

29:46.69
smacey
Right.

29:57.78
aaronmannes
fast food commercials, uh, get this, get this.

29:59.92
Jessy Sanchez
yeah

30:00.99
aaronmannes
And then the medicine commercials right after it. And it's like, yeah it's just crazy.

30:06.63
Jessy Sanchez
Mm

30:07.83
aaronmannes
but And then it depending on what you're watching, like ah you could look better. You could, you could be younger. You could have more hair. You could use this makeup. You could like just sort of, you're not enough stuff like that. That is the marketing that really hits people.

30:20.07
Jessy Sanchez
-hmm.

30:22.96
aaronmannes
And if you just watch a little bit of TV, you're going to see those commercials where essentially the the statement is like you're not enough but if you get this you'll be happy you'll be great you'll be this so uh i i do think i do think ah in one's

30:33.68
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah. ah that

30:41.17
aaronmannes
Like this is a personal, this is a personal journey for you as well to build the self esteem or the self, the security of like, no, I'm good.

30:45.38
Jessy Sanchez
Yep.

30:52.67
aaronmannes
Like I can do these things despite of what marketing says.

30:58.13
smacey
Mm

30:59.00
aaronmannes
And then one step further, let me let me try to enlighten some people or show that, show everyone that I can do this.

31:01.53
smacey
-hmm

31:08.31
aaronmannes
But there is that like, you have to, I think the message too for people is the overcoming of the self-doubt that is either targeted or targeted by proxy throughout culture, throughout marketing, throughout advertising that like, no, this isn't for you.

31:27.62
Jessy Sanchez
Mm-hmm.

31:27.74
aaronmannes
You know, and, and getting past that and being like, no, I'd, I'd like to try that and I'm gonna, and I'm going to succeed at it.

31:32.94
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.

31:34.83
aaronmannes
And this is my battle, not people inviting me. Like, I don't need your invite to go camping. I can do this on my own.

31:41.80
Jessy Sanchez
Right. Right. Exactly. I love that. And, uh, yeah. I mean, you kinda hit it on the head right there and I know that and one thing that I do want to you know say is I also don't want to be a number to meet a quota. if that makes sense.

31:59.40
smacey
Right.

32:00.13
Jessy Sanchez
And that's why i feel I felt very hesitant to talk about it in the beginning because I led with my work first. And now I so i feel like I can talk about it because I have proved myself through my clients and doing good work that I can lead with just work without talking about this whole right like diversity inclusivity. But I can be a photographer without having to put like, oh, I'm a female Latin American photographer.

32:31.43
Jessy Sanchez
No, I'm a photographer, period. um And so that, exactly.

32:34.33
smacey
Right. So you don't want to leverage that.

32:38.38
Jessy Sanchez
And so that's why I honed in on my craft um and I continuously am on the journey of learning how to be a better photographer, how to be a better content creator. um And that way I can have my work speak for itself. And then of course, you know, my other,

32:53.13
smacey
Yes.

32:56.65
Jessy Sanchez
Part of me being a female Latin photographer is just another piece of the puzzle. um So that was one thing that I remember in the beginning I was very hesitant to talk about because I didn't want to just be another number or meeting a quota.

33:03.43
smacey
Yeah.

33:09.72
smacey
Yeah. I'm so glad you said that because what you're talking about is meritocracy, right? Where you're hired on merit and that should how it should, that's how it should always be.

33:18.15
Jessy Sanchez
Yes. Yes.

33:18.64
smacey
But what you're talking about is hire me on merit, but let's get more people in the space.

33:23.80
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah, exactly.

33:25.78
smacey
ah Right. I agree with you. I think when you, when you try to just hit a quota, I think quality suffers.

33:34.36
Jessy Sanchez
Mm-hmm, exactly.

33:35.57
smacey
Right. Which is unfortunate.

33:37.56
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah, and so I do do my part to try to to learn more. you know, just gave my technical skills in photography, just try to try to be a good photographer. And um if someone hires me for, for example, like a cabin shoot, I know that I can show up and do the work and show you quality work and deliberate work. um And of course, you know, if they hire me because of other things, whether I was a Latin photographer, and they want to represent more

34:10.98
Jessy Sanchez
of that in the space, great. That's awesome. But I know that I can also give you awesome work. And so it's one of the, it's a balance that I'm always kind of playing around with.

34:18.35
smacey
Right.

34:21.77
Jessy Sanchez
And so, yeah.

34:22.05
aaronmannes
yeah

34:22.57
smacey
Yeah. So you almost want to hear you're an awesome photographer, a content creator. We'd love to hire you. It's a bonus that you're a Latin woman as opposed to, Oh yeah, for sure.

34:30.58
Jessy Sanchez
yeah

34:32.62
smacey
We definitely need more Latin women.

34:34.85
Jessy Sanchez
Exactly.

34:35.44
smacey
Like you want to hear that first.

34:38.27
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah, I,

34:39.58
smacey
And I can understand, I understand that because i i I mean, just, just being hired as a quota, that wouldn't feel very good.

34:46.80
Jessy Sanchez
no because that doesn't really speak to my work that just speaks to me and you know how I look and what I talk about but exactly yeah yeah

34:54.86
smacey
Well, you look the way you look. I mean, there's no effort in that. There's effort in honing your craft and getting better and—right. So I hear you. I hear you 100%.

35:05.14
aaronmannes
Seth, if you think there's no effort in the way I look, I'll tell you my regime.

35:09.87
smacey
Sorry. The way you're born, you want to get so specific.

35:14.32
aaronmannes
I'll tell you my skin regime.

35:17.05
smacey
Yeah. I've seen it. We're just in Alaska. I've seen it.

35:21.56
aaronmannes
Splash of water in the morning.

35:23.37
smacey
He went outside, grabbed some silt from the glacier and just exfoliated for 30 minutes.

35:26.26
aaronmannes
Exfoliate.

35:27.83
smacey
I said, man, we gotta get going.

35:28.19
aaronmannes
Yeah.

35:28.25
Jessy Sanchez
I swear men's skin are so different than women's skin.

35:29.90
aaronmannes
Nope.

35:33.72
smacey
it It's filled with dirt and grime and at least.

35:33.84
aaronmannes
Yeah.

35:36.94
Jessy Sanchez
Maybe it's just how we're marketed to, right?

35:40.13
aaronmannes
I think, do you want to hear my crazy conspiracy theory on that?

35:40.31
smacey
Perhaps.

35:43.34
smacey
Oh, here we go.

35:44.23
Jessy Sanchez
That's great.

35:46.27
smacey
On what?

35:46.60
aaronmannes
well On that, like women's skin and men's skin, very different. The the amount of ah attention needed, I would say.

35:57.31
Jessy Sanchez
Hmm.

35:57.59
smacey
Okay.

35:57.87
aaronmannes
But but I think, i I think it is. I remember being a teen and having my first pimples and I would use the oxy pads. Remember those?

36:08.21
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

36:09.27
smacey
Yeah.

36:10.05
aaronmannes
And it made me break out, break out so much worse.

36:12.66
smacey
Then you buy even more.

36:12.66
aaronmannes
And I was like, Oh, Oh, well this is convenient. Like now I need more oxy pads. Like I just think there's something to less is more. And you put all this product on and like this product will fix that thing.

36:22.86
Jessy Sanchez
yeah

36:26.75
aaronmannes
And this product will fix that thing. And this product will fix that thing. and Like you just, at some point, like what's the baseline and we get, we get lost in the weeds.

36:33.66
Jessy Sanchez
Alright.

36:35.88
aaronmannes
Whereas not all, but guys, I think typically are like. Oh, I forgot to wash my hair this whole week. Like, like they're just kind of, uh, you know, I'm stereotyping, but just a little bit like, uh, like, do you wash your face at night?

36:45.92
Jessy Sanchez
I

36:51.62
aaronmannes
Uh, what? No, I just, I don't know.

36:54.54
Jessy Sanchez
know.

36:54.58
aaronmannes
If I feel sweaty, I might put a splash of water on my face, but that's it. And they have perfect skin. And you're like, what the hell?

37:02.13
Jessy Sanchez
know

37:02.21
aaronmannes
I don't know. There might be something to that. That's a theory. It's out there. You guys weigh in. Let me know. Put it in the comments.

37:09.29
smacey
I don't know. I feel weathered and I don't have a skincare routine. So anyways.

37:13.11
aaronmannes
Well, you look great for 29, 30.

37:16.35
smacey
Yeah.

37:17.74
aaronmannes
30.

37:17.91
Jessy Sanchez
Oh nice!

37:18.05
smacey
Wow. Yeah.

37:19.41
Jessy Sanchez
I'm turning 32 I think.

37:19.52
smacey
Hell yeah.

37:22.27
Jessy Sanchez
I don't even remember. August 1st, so I'm pretty excited.

37:24.91
smacey
You're turning how old?

37:26.05
Jessy Sanchez
32.

37:26.97
smacey
Nice.

37:28.28
aaronmannes
Congrats. You guys have made it.

37:29.98
smacey
Just getting started. Just getting started. Um, rewinding.

37:33.72
aaronmannes
I digress.

37:34.42
smacey
So and yeah, you big time to you ever. Uh, so back to this whole being vulnerable and being honest online in particular. So we talked about how that does so much for your viewers. Uh, I'm sure that's aided in building your audience. Right. Um, I mean, one of the things

37:54.02
Jessy Sanchez
i would Yeah.

37:58.51
smacey
Um, so selfishly, how does being honest and being honest and vulnerable, what does that do for you personally on a selfish level when you're talking about it? I mean, is it, is the is it in the satisfaction that people are relating that you are helping or is there, is there another factor to it?

38:17.30
Jessy Sanchez
Um, honestly, selfishly, as you would put it.

38:20.21
smacey
Mm-hmm. Is that too harsh?

38:24.22
Jessy Sanchez
No, not at all.

38:24.99
smacey
That word gets a bad rap. It's okay to be selfish sometimes.

38:27.95
Jessy Sanchez
I agree.

38:28.12
smacey
Definitely.

38:28.92
Jessy Sanchez
I agree. Um, I would say... I think this is gonna sound terrible, but...

38:36.78
smacey
No, then say it. That's good.

38:37.94
aaronmannes
to it. We're recording. Press record, Seth.

38:42.76
Jessy Sanchez
um It's meeting more people like me selfishly. um I grew up in a very um white neighborhood and I never really had friends of color and now that I'm in the creative outer space, even less now. I mean, unfortunately that's I live in Colorado and and it's rare to find someone of my, um, a Latin, you know, outdoorsy woman that's also into photography and wants to go out and shoot sometimes and maybe go camping and rugged. It's hard. It's hard to find somebody like that. So

39:20.66
Jessy Sanchez
selfishly um sharing this yeah I have found some I've connected with other women who are the same you know latin outdoorsy and awesome photography so I gained a couple of friends that obviously they're not in Colorado but but you know um it's been nice to connect with somebody and make online friends like that so that's my selfishly answer

39:43.48
smacey
and Okay. On that topic, I want to, can I ask? and I'm going to ask. I don't know. I'm asking for permission.

39:48.90
Jessy Sanchez
the

39:49.30
smacey
So this is our show.

39:49.41
aaronmannes
yeah canadian

39:51.88
Jessy Sanchez
Thank

39:53.28
aaronmannes
Canadian Do you mind if I ask on this podcast the ask questions and interviews We do what we want Seth

39:54.41
smacey
So yeah. Do you mind if I ask you a question on our podcast?

39:57.24
Jessy Sanchez
you.

39:58.98
smacey
Yeah. I realized how stupid that was as soon as I said it. Don't worry. It didn't get by me. but i want Okay. So why? Why is that important that you go out hiking with another Latin woman as opposed to just any other friend?

40:15.29
Jessy Sanchez
That's a good question. I've thought about this a lot actually, funny enough. um It's kind of a weird question to even think about for me because

40:24.21
smacey
I thought you were just going to say, that's a pretty weird question. You should have. It would have been funnier.

40:32.79
Jessy Sanchez
um I mean, honestly I think it's the cultural thing. There's always some jokes, some phrases that you can say that just mean different differently in a different culture. um My husband is Norwegian for example and even that he has some phrases or some words even that um you can't really translate it in English and so it kind of stays in the Norwegian culture and so sometimes for example I'll say something and

41:06.44
Jessy Sanchez
if i If I get scared, I automatically start speaking in Spanish. If I get angry, I automatically start speaking in Spanish.

41:14.30
smacey
Oh, God.

41:14.64
Jessy Sanchez
and

41:16.59
smacey
When you get angry.

41:18.17
Jessy Sanchez
ah Yes, my Latin, yesica comes out.

41:22.53
smacey
Oh.

41:23.03
aaronmannes
What's that called?

41:23.31
Jessy Sanchez
and Yesica?

41:23.43
aaronmannes
and Say that again.

41:25.34
Jessy Sanchez
It's just my name in Spanish.

41:25.74
aaronmannes
Yeah. Oh, I was like, Oh, what what's this mean?

41:26.89
smacey
Yes, you can.

41:29.67
aaronmannes
Latin women, they have a yes.

41:30.35
smacey
Well, we haven't been cursed at in Spanish yet, so we're doing all right, folks.

41:33.86
aaronmannes
I have.

41:35.26
smacey
Have you?

41:37.57
Jessy Sanchez
Oh man, you must have done something wrong.

41:39.58
smacey
Not by not by Jesse here.

41:41.74
aaronmannes
No, no.

41:41.79
Jessy Sanchez
Never Jesse.

41:44.87
Jessy Sanchez
But anyway, so yeah, it's just some of those things where sometimes you you think of a joke or a phrase that you want to say, but you then you have to go through this whole explanation, and this is what this means, and you it just it means differently in Spanish, for example. And I can give you an example.

42:01.36
smacey
Right.

42:02.37
Jessy Sanchez
um of my parents say this saying in Spanish called apachuraroreja which means um when they go I'm gonna go squish ear and what that means they're gonna go to bed.

42:16.56
smacey
Oh, nice.

42:16.70
aaronmannes
squish ear It's here.

42:17.68
smacey
Squishy here.

42:17.80
aaronmannes
That's amazing.

42:20.17
Jessy Sanchez
So it sounds funny in English and it just doesn't translate correctly but that's an example of what I'm trying to say is just there's certain phrases that sometimes just don't translate.

42:30.38
aaronmannes
Now, is that a Latina?

42:30.61
smacey
So it's a communication.

42:32.18
aaronmannes
like ah So you're Mexican, you said. Would a Costa Rican know that phrase? Would a Colombian know that phrase?

42:39.42
Jessy Sanchez
um they It's Spanish, so they know, but they wouldn't know the context behind it.

42:45.24
aaronmannes
Mm-hmm.

42:46.64
Jessy Sanchez
um And that might just be a saying that my parents say, who knows, right?

42:51.34
aaronmannes
It's just your parents.

42:52.72
Jessy Sanchez
it just my

42:52.81
aaronmannes
I just Googled it. No one's ever said that ever. So I like that though.

42:57.00
Jessy Sanchez
That might actually be the case, to be quite honest.

43:00.66
aaronmannes
I'm going to go squish in the ear. I'm going to start saying that 100%.

43:04.41
smacey
That's hilarious.

43:04.43
Jessy Sanchez
It's kind of funny. You squish your ear when you sleep.

43:06.95
aaronmannes
It makes perfect sense.

43:08.13
Jessy Sanchez
It makes perfect sense.

43:09.60
aaronmannes
Hmm.

43:10.44
Jessy Sanchez
um But yeah, there's just certain sayings that, you know, I have hiked with ah Latin women before, even Latin men, and there's just some things that you you just users start speaking in Spanglish, and it's funny. It's little things like that, some unspoken things that It's just a different experience, I would say. And so, I love all my friends, obviously, but um it's just a different experience. And that's that's the only reason why I sometimes...

43:40.79
aaronmannes
ah I would imagine there's like an undescribable comfort.

43:46.16
Jessy Sanchez
Yes.

43:46.38
aaronmannes
Like just kind of, I grew up in a, again, like an all white town ah in Connecticut. My sisters adopted from South Korea and I could always tell like one of a few Asian girls growing up, like it just probably just didn't quite click, you know?

44:07.34
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

44:07.83
aaronmannes
And ah her finding like her friends in college and living in Chicago now, I just think like you you grow into it, but I just ah just can imagine like that time and and finding just some sort of unspoken comfort with like,

44:12.39
Jessy Sanchez
Oh nice.

44:27.34
aaronmannes
Oh, but they get where I come from. They get my my idiosyncrasies a little bit better than the average person.

44:34.37
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah. yeah exactly exactly right yeah you don't have to explain it you can just say something and they know exactly what you're talking about and so that's why you know sometimes i have you know saw um even in not even mexican like it can be just any immigrant or

44:36.18
smacey
Yeah. What you're talking about is a need to be understood. I mean, that's why photographers like hanging out with other photographers. That's like why people who run like hanging out with other people who run because people get it.

44:46.82
aaronmannes
Right.

44:52.84
smacey
Right.

45:06.28
Jessy Sanchez
m I've hiked with many other culture um background hikers and it's it's kind of the same thing. It's a different upbringing coming from immigrant parents than not, I would say. And again, it's hard to pick the words because you obviously don't want to offend anybody. um But that's just kind of...

45:28.80
smacey
You can offend people if you want. On our show, it's okay.

45:31.54
aaronmannes
that's up That's up to them.

45:33.52
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah, that's true.

45:34.23
smacey
You kind of have a point. When you get offended, I guess, I mean, there's certain things that are off limits, obviously. But when you get offended, I mean, you've given somebody else the power in a sense.

45:44.82
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.

45:47.23
smacey
Right.

45:48.10
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

45:48.64
smacey
Um, I kind of digress there, but that's, it's an interesting topic. I've, I've heard that talked about on threads a lot when people are like venting about stuff.

45:53.73
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

45:54.89
aaronmannes
No.

46:00.23
Jessy Sanchez
yeah

46:00.45
smacey
I always comment. and I say, Hey, like if it gets to you, they win.

46:04.39
Jessy Sanchez
Yes, yeah, I like that. That's a good one.

46:07.44
aaronmannes
yeah

46:08.40
Jessy Sanchez
um It's always about, and they're just coming at it from their experience as well. We're all coming from it different experiences, so they might be offended because, yeah, they had a certain experience. They they they have questions themselves that they haven't had answered, and it's just so many, you know, factors to it.

46:23.01
aaronmannes
Yeah. Hmm.

46:30.72
aaronmannes
when you When you're offended, it's an opportunity to ask why and see the place in your heart that isn't quite healed yet.

46:30.78
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

46:39.42
Jessy Sanchez
Hmm.

46:39.77
aaronmannes
right like I think it's just a great time to pause if you get triggered or worked up by something and be like, why is this offending like why is this getting to me so much?

46:40.65
Jessy Sanchez
Hmm.

46:51.68
aaronmannes
What part isn't healed?

46:52.62
smacey
Mm hmm.

46:53.83
aaronmannes
what What did they say that isn't healed?

46:53.85
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

46:56.03
aaronmannes
What thing did they trigger that isn't healed and and kind of rework those things?

46:59.17
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

47:01.81
aaronmannes
Because ultimately, if you're if you're really okay with life and yourself, you understand that everyone's different and people are going to say stuff.

47:02.54
Jessy Sanchez
Hmm.

47:10.97
aaronmannes
And if they're just saying stuff, It's, it's words. It's like, then our choice to be like, Hey, you can or cannot say that.

47:16.97
Jessy Sanchez
It's weird.

47:22.33
smacey
Yeah.

47:22.52
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

47:23.26
aaronmannes
You know?

47:23.42
smacey
Well, you're talking about two, right? You're saying there's a party that's unhealed. And i I always take the standpoint of if you're usually when we're offended, we're angry, right? Is that fair to say?

47:33.81
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

47:34.40
aaronmannes
Yeah.

47:34.51
smacey
And you know, I always say this on the show, anger, you know, is is fear.

47:41.20
aaronmannes
Yeah.

47:42.51
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

47:42.78
smacey
When you're angry about something, you're afraid of something. If you're angry, you dropped all the plates in a restaurant. You're afraid of looking stupid.

47:50.54
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

47:51.39
smacey
You're afraid of being humiliated.

47:53.17
Jessy Sanchez
we

47:53.49
smacey
If you're, um, let's say somebody corrects you in a sentence, even unsolicited advice, even though you shouldn't do that and you're angry about it.

48:00.04
Jessy Sanchez
Mm

48:01.77
smacey
Maybe you're, you're afraid you don't know as much as you thought you do.

48:05.68
Jessy Sanchez
-hmm.

48:05.87
smacey
Right. It's, it's, it's an interesting, so I like what you're saying here too. And I also think it's, Oh, what am I, one of my fearful of in this moment.

48:14.02
Jessy Sanchez
Mm-hmm.

48:16.31
smacey
You know,

48:16.42
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah. No, that's, that's good. I like that. Um, so whoever gets offended, I'm, you know, I'm sorry.

48:24.88
aaronmannes
I'm preemptively sorry.

48:25.50
Jessy Sanchez
But uh, yeah.

48:26.01
smacey
do you even need to be sorry though? Right? Like, I don't know.

48:30.59
aaronmannes
I'm sorry you got offended.

48:31.54
smacey
We're getting really, getting really into the weeds.

48:31.66
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

48:34.53
smacey
Uh, let's bring it back to creating. So.

48:37.39
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

48:38.84
smacey
Have you ever kind of had to re-find your way back to creating, if that makes sense? I mean, I feel like, like, how can we get back to focusing simply on creating good stuff and blocking out a lot of the noise?

48:44.70
Jessy Sanchez
What do you mean by that?

48:51.80
Jessy Sanchez
Oh man.

48:53.88
smacey
Again, I'm i'm i'm not, I'm not nominating you as the expert, but in past experience, I mean, have you ever just been like, you know what, I'm not really heading the direction I want to go.

48:54.00
Jessy Sanchez
simply Yeah.

49:01.62
smacey
I need to get back to making, excuse me, good stuff.

49:05.40
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah. I think it's... shutting out, honestly is taking a step away. Anytime I have felt like I wasn't creating the stuff that I want to create, it's because I was too consumed into social media. I started to create what other people wanted or what other people were creating and not really tapping into what actually made me want to create in the first place. And I've actually, I'm going through that a little bit right now and um

49:38.98
Jessy Sanchez
I've had to take a step back and really refine what I actually want to spend time creating. What do I want to learn to create? I mentioned that I like photographing, but um what is that I like photographing? And so I think that creating good getting back to creating what you want and creating good stuff is just something that comes from authenticity and from what brings you joy. um

50:07.93
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah, I think that whenever you do get too consumed into the social media, you just, you start to question everything that you're doing and you start to forget about why you even did it in the first place. And so that's one thing that I've done anytime I feel like I i do. I am not creating what I like. i I take a week off, I take two weeks off, whatever it may be, maybe even just a weekend, unplug and get out my camera and just play with it and see where it takes me and where that joy leads me and that's where I feel like I create my best work.

50:48.64
smacey
Right on.

50:49.82
aaronmannes
It's awesome. From this episode, I've... I mean, something's really hit me where, first of all, you have a really nice way about... presenting the message that you're going for.

51:01.56
Jessy Sanchez
Oh, thank you.

51:01.82
aaronmannes
It's not you need to, or you guys should do this, or it's not pushy in its own sense. There there is a strong theme of like, this has been my personal journey, that things I needed to get over, and by me getting over them, I hope to help other people.

51:17.45
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

51:21.71
aaronmannes
And not in a pushy way, but in a way where they can see,

51:23.51
Jessy Sanchez
yeah

51:25.82
aaronmannes
some of my successes or some of the hurdles or some of the obstacles that I've gotten through. In this entire interview, there's there's been no real strong stories of people saying you cannot go camping.

51:34.41
smacey
Thanks.

51:40.25
aaronmannes
You're not allowed to go camping.

51:40.28
Jessy Sanchez
Right. Yeah.

51:42.24
aaronmannes
It's been you fighting caught customs or cultural norms or societal norms or things that you haven't seen or do see or whatever and getting over that yourself and and breaking through those barriers that maybe are somewhat self-created or culturally created and in getting through those things. um And I could be wrong. There there might have been opportunities or or people talk down to you because of ethnic ethnicity or whatever, because you're camping or ah Mexican women don't camp.

52:11.42
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

52:12.91
aaronmannes
like I don't know if any of that's happened, but that hasn't been the theme of this podcast. It's been sort of like your interpretation of the external world and fixing the internal world to get past it. and i think if there's a thousand ways we can take this message and it you don't have to be mexican out there listening to to relate you could be anything you could be me that sometimes feels like i'm too old to be doing this this is like a kid's game at some point i i have those thoughts and i i fight with those thoughts often and it's easy to it's easy to scapegoat things in terms of like oh i didn't get that cabin gig because ah

52:46.97
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

52:53.61
aaronmannes
I'm not a 25-year-old anymore. I'm 43. Like, that's why. Versus like, no, I want to keep working on my craft and get better. And like, maybe that's just not the right cabin for me to to shoot or the right product for me to shoot. That's not what they're looking for. Whatever. It has nothing to do with my work. I need to keep doing my work better. um So I think there's ah just a lot of messages in the internal

53:12.93
Jessy Sanchez
yeah

53:18.69
aaronmannes
Sort of evaluation of where we are and where we want to be and fighting through some of those external. Messaging that we get whether it's straight up marketing advertising our family ah our parents or grandparents culturally. religion, like whatever those things are that we want to like kind of bust through ah comes from within.

53:40.40
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah.

53:41.78
aaronmannes
That's what I really got from this. um And thank you for sharing. It's like it's helped me in my own way and ah in a different way, but my own way.

53:50.74
Jessy Sanchez
I love that mic drop, first of all.

53:53.86
smacey
That was really good, man.

53:54.59
aaronmannes
I can't drop it. Sorry, Seth, he does the audio.

53:59.89
Jessy Sanchez
No, that was great. I love that. um I mean, well said, honestly, and that is why I feel like it's important, no matter where you're what you're talking about in just sharing it, sharing your vulnerability and your struggles and the fact that you're still in it, right? Because as you were saying earlier, I'm in my journey right now versus the quote-unquote mountain peak and I think that I was really excited to come on here because I'm very much still on that journey, climbing that mountain if you will.

54:21.60
aaronmannes
Hm?

54:35.02
Jessy Sanchez
And a lot of people do relate to that because You know, once you're at a certain level, whatever that might be, it's not relatable anymore. I feel like whenever you do, but you can't just share your journey. When you're right in it, you're learning, you're struggling, you have some wins, you have some failures, it's relatable two to everyone, right, on different aspects. And so that's why I'm really excited that ah you took from that, Erin.

55:06.14
Jessy Sanchez
And yeah.

55:06.27
aaronmannes
Yeah, definitely.

55:08.62
smacey
Awesome. Awesome. Well, Jesse, thanks so much for your time today.

55:09.71
aaronmannes
Thank you.

55:11.53
smacey
This was awesome. Awesome to get a chat with you and thank you so much for your time.

55:12.82
Jessy Sanchez
Thank you.

55:14.90
smacey
Really do appreciate it.

55:14.96
Jessy Sanchez
You as well. Oh, thank you so much.

55:16.49
aaronmannes
Thank you.

55:17.27
Jessy Sanchez
I love your podcast. I'm always listening.

55:19.04
aaronmannes
Oh, wow.

55:19.35
Jessy Sanchez
I'm always learning that way.

55:19.83
smacey
Listener. Listener turned guest. How about that?

55:23.16
Jessy Sanchez
Hell yeah. Oh yeah.

55:23.83
aaronmannes
Not only a member.

55:25.71
smacey
Yeah.

55:26.16
Jessy Sanchez
ah yeah

55:26.39
smacey
Listener turned guest. We love that. It doesn't happen too often, but it does.

55:29.40
aaronmannes
That's amazing.

55:30.49
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.

55:31.53
smacey
So right on.

55:32.08
Jessy Sanchez
I'm really excited.

55:33.60
smacey
Okay. Till next time, both of you take care.

55:35.38
aaronmannes
Thank you.

55:35.48
Jessy Sanchez
Yeah, let's take care.