Unmasking Neurodiversity: Jane McFadden's Journey Through ADHD, Autism, and Parenting

Discover the transformative journey of Jane McFadden, a former psychologist and founder of ADHD Mums, as she shares her late ADHD and autism diagnoses. Jane's candid recollection of the challenges she faced as a mother of three, and the realization of her neurodivergence when her eldest child started school, provides crucial insights into the intersection of neurodiversity and parenting. This episode is a must-listen for parents navigating similar paths, especially those in alternative education settings like forest schools, highlighting the importance of recognizing and supporting neurodivergent traits in both children and adults.

In this episode, we uncover the chaos and revelations of adult ADHD diagnoses, illustrated by Jane's impulsive decision to embark on a year-long caravan trip around Australia, which brought her ADHD symptoms to the forefront. Her story underscores the unique way ADHD manifests in women and girls, challenging common misconceptions and emphasizing the importance of proper diagnosis and support. From managing a busy lifestyle to persistent psychological consultations, we delve into the real-life impact of living with undiagnosed ADHD and the eventual clarity that comes with understanding one's condition.

Finally, we explore the profound benefits of adult diagnoses and medication. Jane shares her personal experiences with ADHD medication, detailing how it improved her ability to manage daily tasks and be more present with her family. We discuss the significance of early intervention and medication for children, the plethora of resources available for ADHD

Ever wondered how to bring the magic of 'Nature Play' into your child's education? Or how to say goodbye to your worries about snakes and ticks? With Nature Play Now, crafting an epic outdoor program is easier than you think. You’ll boost your confidence, skill sets, and have parents eager to enrol. Join the adventure for just $57, exclusively for Raising Wildlings listeners. Visit our Raising Wildlings website for more details today!"

www.r

Hey it’s Nicki here interrupting this episode to quickly say, if you’re like us and feeling torn between your career as an educator vs. your beliefs for child development, 

We’ve created a 5 step e-guide to unlock your purpose without compromising your values. 

This Treasure Map is completely free, takes ten minutes, and is available from our Raising Wildlings website. So  dive in and s

If you enjoyed this episode of Raising Wildlings. We invite you to check out Your Wild Business, our signature business course for education change-makers who are ready to create or refine their own nature play businesses.

Your Wild Business is the only program that focuses on the business side of nature play, with sustainable practices, processes, and systems that will cut down your administration work, giving you more time to focus on building a business that is centered around your e

Other ways we can help you:

1. Ready to create your own Nature Play business? Head to www.raisingwildlings.com.au/wildbusiness to access the roadmap to starting your business journey.
2. Keen to find your purpose in 10 minutes? Download our FREE treasure map to find your passion without compromising your educational values.
3. Want to know how to craft an epic outdoor program that has parents and directors lining up to enrol? You need Nature Play Now our $57 Workshop and Bundle series (people are saying this is a steal!)

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:32

Today we're chatting to Jane McFadden of ADHD Mums. Now Jane is a former psychologist. After a continued battle with burnout, stress and anxiety, received the shock diagnosis of ADHD in 2022 and found the medication life-changing. However, this medication unveiled autistic traits that led her to be diagnosed with autism in 2024. Jane's now studying a master's in child and adolescent psychology to further understand neurodiversity and began the podcast ADHD Mums in 2023, which hit number two in Australia in just a year.

Speaker 1: 1:05

Jane now works as a speaker, author, neuroscientist and neurodiversity specialist, and she lives right here on the Sunshine Coast with her husband and three children. Now, this episode might seem probably a little left of field for some of our listeners as it's not forest school or alternative education related, but it is very parenting related and particularly in our forest school business, we get a lot of families with children who are neurodivergent, and Jane noticed that in our programs as well. And Jane noticed that in our programs as well. I went on her podcast recently and spoke about how good forest school is for neurodivergent families and, as you'll hear, this podcast does get a little bit personal as the penny drops for me in more ways than one. So thank you for your patience as I giggle along uncomfortably, as I have some uncomfortable realizations for me. The reason Jane and I got together on this podcast was to hopefully help mums and parents, particularly those of teenage girls who are having a difficult time, perhaps maybe in school, maybe because they're undiagnosed and the traits that they're suffering from at the moment and making being in school really difficult or life full stop really difficult. If this podcast helps one teenage girl or child, then we've done a fantastic job. Our hope is also that maybe by getting a child's diagnosis, there might be a few parents here that may receive one too, that may help them.

Speaker 1: 2:33

So buckle up. It's a bumpy intro. We're just going to jump straight into it. Hope you enjoy. We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we record today the Kabi Kabi and Gubbi Gubbi people. We recognise their continued connection to the land and waters of this beautiful place. We recognise Aboriginal people as the original custodians of this land and acknowledge that they have never ceded sovereignty. We respect all Gubbi Gubbi elders, ancestors and emerging elders, and all First Nations people listening today.

Speaker 2: 3:10

Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about parenting, alternative education and stepping into the wilderness, however that looks, with your family.

Speaker 1: 3:19

Each week, we'll be interviewing experts that truly inspire us to answer your parenting and education questions. We'll also be sharing stories from some incredible families that took the leap and are taking the road less travelled.

Speaker 2: 3:33

We're your hosts. Vicki and Nikki from Wildlings Forest School, Pop in your headphones, settle in and join us on this next adventure.

Speaker 1: 3:41

I'm just going to get right into it. I was going to just say good morning and start really formally, but I feel like with Jane, we just have this boom-ba-da-boom-ba-da-boom where we've got 20 different stories, but in the best way, and I'm super excited to talk to you. So previously I've just been on Jane's ADHD Mums podcast and I was super excited to invite her and to reciprocate that, because we cross over quite a lot in different ways, shapes and forms, and I want to thank you for the invite to begin with. But what I want to really dive into is, I guess, the similarities across our businesses and why. But first of all, hi, and second of all, can you please tell us your story, beginning with how and why you started ADHD Mums, because I don't know it. I've gone back since. We've recorded and listened to probably two podcasts, but I haven't been right back yet. So this is actually new to me, so I'm excited to hear it.

Speaker 3: 4:41

Oh well, you know what? I am not a natural podcaster. I'm a very private person and I don't have any interest in being a well-known person at all. Yet I suppose here we are.

Speaker 3: 4:56

The reason that I'm here is because when I was 30, I don't know, you know what ADHD, you don't even know how old you are in times I don't know I would be in my mid thirties and I had three kids under five and the eldest went to prep and we all know that that's a different phase, right, and it reminded me a little bit of being pregnant when I just thought about being pregnant and then you know the childbirth, and when the baby came out, I realized I didn't know what to do with said baby. I'd never held a baby before, didn't know I had to sleep. It was a whole, you know, a whole, nother thing. But it was a little similar to that going into prep. I have never been so aware that there was something fucking wrong with me when I became to be a prep mum and I thought this is actually the weirdest experience of my life. I've always felt a little bit different and I've always been a bit much, but I knew very clearly when I was in the pickup. So at the particular state school I was, we had to walk all the way in with our child, stand around awkwardly for five minutes, then hand the child to the teacher. We had to do it all year and it was even more awkward on the other end, because you just stand around awkwardly to wait for your child and you know there's all this like little small talk stuff that I hate. However, the women there in the group are still some of my good friends. This is not a judgy mum crowd. This is a really nice mum crowd, but when I spoke to them I knew there's something wrong with me. I am not like these other people, and it just became clear, and I want to be really specific with examples, because a bit of a pet hate of mine is when people talk generally and you don't get an example. Let me give you an example yes, please.

Speaker 3: 6:41

So you start school in January, february it was July I still didn't know what day library day was. I remember getting homework, thinking I don't know how to read these instructions. This is weird and boring. What is this? I could never seem to get the login to Seesaw to work. And one particular morning I remember arriving and I walked my daughter in. I was very disheveled. I was running two different companies. We had multiple Airbnbs, absolute chaos. I have always brought chaos with me wherever I go and I would bring my husband and my three kids on the chaos with me. I kind of know better now that chaos is not fun with kids, but at the time I honestly didn't know better.

Speaker 3: 7:27

So anyway, I bring my child in, I bring my daughter in, gigi, and I'm walking her in and we're late. You know standard 15 minutes for me. And as I walk her in late, I realise I can see through the window that every child there is wearing like some kind of outfit and it looked to me like it was some kind of princess day and I thought, oh God, I've done it again. Who knows, I don't know what's going on most of the time. I'm pretty sure there's a dress up day that I've missed. So anyway, I was like, oh cool, gigi, don't worry about it.

Speaker 3: 7:57

So we run back to the shopping center who? We were lucky that we lived right near the shopping center, which is right near the school. We ran into the $2 shop and I got her a princess outfit. We put it on. I walked her back in.

Speaker 3: 8:08

As I'm walking her back in, I've got all of her uniform in the car and I opened the door and I'm that proud of myself that I've got this princess outfit to find that everybody's in uniforms. And I was like I swear they were in princess outfits before. And I say to the teacher look, I know that I don't know what's going on all the time, like ever, and I know I get it wrong all the time. I swear they were wearing princess outfits before. Was that today or yesterday? And I was thinking I've lost it. I've had hands down, I've lost my mind. She goes oh no, we just briefly put them on for like a dress up thing for 15 minutes in the beginning and I was like okay, and I was like, well, I've really got to go to work. We're now, like you know, 45 minutes late at this point. Can I just leave her in the princess outfit? And she goes, no, not really Go back to the car. I had to go back to the car, get her dressed again, right, and then take her back in. This is like 10 o'clock at this point and I just thought this is just bizarre. Like I can't. I can't continue like this anymore.

Speaker 3: 9:19

So I was in this cycle of burnout and overwhelm and stress and I realized it was all the little things that caught me and I ended up going to a psychologist for you know the millionth time, because I'd been in and out of therapy for like 20 years trying to figure out stress, burnout, anxiety. What is going on with me? Why am I on this roller coaster? Why do I swap career paths every three minutes? Why do I always get confused? What's going on?

Speaker 3: 9:49

And then I'd move states and everyone go aren't you living in Victoria? I'd be like, oh no, I live in Sydney now and I'd just be bringing this removal truck of chaos with me. If I had to go overseas, I'd never know where my passport was. I'd even go to the gate, not have my passport and go oh, I don't think it matters, does it? And they'd go yes, yes, it does. And I just felt like I was going loop to dupe. And my husband is the most beautiful rock man. I have diagnosed him with ADHD, but that's just a wife's diagnosis and he's a bit more inattentive.

Speaker 3: 10:26

So I felt like I was always operating at this hyperactive level and I couldn't understand why everybody else was just happy or relaxed, or I was thinking do they not have ideas? Do they not chase down dreams? Why do people seem to be so happy just going to the park, like, don't you have other things on your brain? My phone was ringing constantly, it was chaotic and I suppose when I went to the psychologist you know it was only the probably the 10th, 11th, 15th psychologist I've been to and he said to me have you ever done a test for ADHD? I laughed in his face.

Speaker 3: 11:06

I'd practiced as a psychologist. I'd canceled people but of course, too impatient, hyperactive to stick at it. I'd kind of finished up that. So I thought that I knew it all. But at the same time, all of the tools, strategies, medication. I'd kind of finished up that. So I thought that I knew it all, but at the same time, all of the tools, strategies, medication I'd been given for the past you know, 20 odd, 25 years had never worked. And he said to me bear with me while we do this testing. And I thought, oh God, he's stupid. Why am I paying for this? Hurry up.

Speaker 3: 11:34

He doesn't know what he's doing. Anyway, we get through the thing and he and we go through the thing and he goes oh, you know, are you ever late? And you know all of the things? I said, no, never late. Very successful, I've got it all sorted and you know I'm very organised and he actually taught me about masking and how you cover things up. So he's like yes, yes, I know you've got your two phones with your 17 buzzers that go off throughout every session that we've got. I can see those. They seem to work well. And I know you've got your Apple Watch, which is buzzing all the time. But I want to know if you actually remember where you were supposed to be next Tuesday at 10 o'clock. Do you have any idea? And no, I don't.

Speaker 3: 12:25

And when we went through the criteria, but taking away all of the things that I had used to prop scaffold myself up, it became very clear that I hit every single marker hard, the only, and I was denying it. I was not interested in having it, I was denying it. He was pulling me up saying I've seen you do that, seen you do that. And he said to me as soon as you walked in and you started talking to me. I 100% know that you have ADHD, wow. And I'm just lucky that he was a female specialist from a hospital who had then gone out into private practice, oh wow. So he was one of the very few that would have been able to see it. And then I lined it up and said, oh, no one of my brothers has that. He's like, yes, it's genetic. Then he starts listing the traits and I said, oh, my dad did that a lot and my grandma, but I don't have that.

Speaker 3: 13:13

And we continued on for quite a long time, even when I rang my best friend after the appointment to tell her how stupid this whole thing was, her husband has ADHD. And she said to me I actually think you have that because you are all over the shop all the time. So it took me about a year and I tried to do lifestyle changes, changing the diet. I'm not somebody to try medication easily and I even thought at that time you know, I'm going to admit it I did not think or I thought, that children that were medicated for ADHD maybe they didn't need to be. You know, like I was all about diet and natural and just oblivious.

Speaker 3: 13:59

I knew I didn't know a lot about ADHD, because I didn't think I knew anybody or it affected me, and everyone's got the stereotype of the eight-year-old boy jumping around disrupting the classroom, which didn't fit me. So it was only actually after don't you love this? So it was only actually after don't you love this. I just decided that I couldn't do grade one with my daughter. I was like this is actually too hard, and so we decided in 12 hours that we were going to caravan around Australia. We bought the caravan, we had it delivered. We didn't know how to drive it, we didn't know where we were going, we didn't have any plans.

Speaker 3: 15:07

I just threw all this crap out on the road on Marketplace and said come and get it. And we went on this trip around Australia for a year, primarily because I was so burnt out, stressed, tired and over the schooling thing that I thought anything has to be easier than this. So I kind of just latched on impulsivity to this caravan trip. Anyway, it really was not. I mean, can you imagine five out of five ADHD people in a caravan Like it was chaotic, to say the least. We did not have petrol, we didn't have food. Half the time the gas didn't work, we didn't have showers, it was just we'd arrive and be like, oh, I think it's unpowered, oh, we don't have any water. We were just all over the shop Probably. I felt like we should have been monitored. But anyway, we've got some great stories. It was a great trip. But I came back pity, burnt out. And when I came back burnt out and also I don't even want to go into it because it's an absolute nightmare of a story but we left the caravan in Perth and flew back. I can't even tell you why, because it's so stupid. Then my husband had to fly back to Perth to get it, which we'd left it in a caravan park for two weeks and they kept ringing us asking us where we were. Anyway, my husband went back to get it in Perth and when he was away I had the kids by myself for a couple of weeks.

Speaker 3: 16:28

And I think with the transition in, you know, we couldn't get back into our house straight away. We were in Airbnbs. I was exhausted and my son was my middle son was really difficult, and it was at that point that I was desperate enough to call a friend of a friend and say look, there's something not right here. Of course you blame your child, there's something wrong with him, can you fix him? And so she agreed to assess him. But she specializes in females. So the first thing she says is do you have any daughters? And I said, oh yeah, I've got a daughter. And the teacher said she's got auditory processing, but she definitely doesn't have ADHD. You know, the teacher said she's got auditory processing, but she definitely doesn't have ADHD. I've been told I have ADHD, but you know, I think I'm fine. And when we started talking she said to me you need to bring yourself and your daughter up to me ASAP. I was like but I just need you to sort my son out. She's like no, no, no, no, bring up your daughter. And anyway. So we brought up my daughter and I went up myself. And it was at that point when I sat down with her and she actually pulled me up enough times with what I thought was okay and very normal as to what she thought was.

Speaker 3: 17:37

And it was after that conversation that she said to me I think you, possibly you should consider medication, and it was probably at a time where I was desperate enough and I had to do something that I considered it. So I went along to a telehealth psychiatrist appointment, took me three or four sessions to get the right medication. When I took it. I can tell you, if you are not sure if you have ADHD or not, take the medication because it's an instant fix Well, not a fix, I call it an ADHD Panadol that you can take it at work, straight away. It's not one of these antidepressants where you have to take it for 12 weeks, see, and it's so subtle and you don't know if it's environmental, it's just like straight up. So I went through a couple that didn't work for me and I took a dexamphetamine, which is a short acting. It's like an ADHD panadol lasts for three or four hours, unless you've got an allergy or something major. It's interacting. It's a pretty easy access. You just take one, see how it works.

Speaker 3: 18:40

I was actually really pissed off that that was how other people felt. I thought, come on a second. I've been in chaos, in insanity for 36 years. And the rest of you people? How easy must it be? That's how I felt. I was actually sitting on the couch thinking I have never felt so relaxed, like I've got time. My anxiety subsided and I had a cup of tea, sat down, had to think about what I might do and then just did all of the things easily, calmly. It was weird. It was so weird that I left one on the counter that I told my husband not to take and he picked it up, took one to try, which you should not do.

Speaker 3: 19:27

I definitely told him not to take and you know, he picked it up, took one to try and which you should not do. I definitely told him not to Absolutely, and he said to me afterwards that didn't work for me. I felt completely normal. Now this man did his passport application I've been asking him to do for three years. He went outside, cut down a tree that had been hanging down for five years and then called for someone to fix a fence, that there was actually a dog that was running into our yard, that I'd been asking him to fix the fence. He did all of that, came back and goes. It didn't work for me. I felt fine whilst completing these three tasks that I'd been waiting for him to do for years, and we laughed for ages after and couldn't believe the difference. Wow. And that, for me, sold me because I just thought why have I been doing this to myself?

Speaker 1: 20:16

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 20:17

And it was actually that night. I took a second one because after you have the three or four hours, you can take another, and I sat down with my kids, played Uno, asked them about their day and actually could prioritize and plan what to do. It's like, okay, well, we've probably got half an hour to play Uno, I can still cook dinner and everything seemed to flow naturally and easily.

Speaker 1: 20:40

Can't imagine doing that.

Speaker 3: 20:41

It was only at that point it was so crazy it was. There was actually at that point that I could get an email from the school, put it in the calendar and write it down and then go to the calendar and start reading it, and I just thought you can't tell me. Well, for me anyway, personally, that lifestyle changes is enough, because I felt like I'd been at school for years and years and I was like she just needs to apply herself, she just needs to read the emails. She just needs to try harder, be better. And it was all my fault and I just started to feel like this is actually not my fault. I've been ripped off all of these years and I was pissed off. So, of course, me being me, and I am going to eventually answer your question, nikki.

Speaker 1: 21:28

I'm really enjoying this.

Speaker 3: 21:30

It's really resonating.

Speaker 3: 21:31

Oh, I feel that because I ran a circle. But I'm coming, I'm coming. No, I was just like I need to know, I need to know more. And if you get on this thing about ADHD, where you research the absolute bejesus out of it, you know you have ADHD. Right, if you've been told and then you just leave it, then that's kind of a bit more normal. But when you go hunting hard, you know you have ADHD.

Speaker 3: 21:57

So I went through all the YouTube videos, everything about mums, and it was really difficult because I couldn't find a lot on the experience and that was what led me to podcasting. I didn't want to talk about my battle with depression, anxiety and stress at all, but I also felt so blessed that I could help my daughter and when she tried medication, the difference in her was unbelievable, and it was at that point I was like the difference in her was unbelievable and it was at that point I was like at what responsibility do I have to help people? Because I was done such a solid by that psychologist that helped me out. There's so little known about it and there's, I don't think, enough psychologists that are able and can see the signs psychiatrists, pediatricians we're still learning and I just thought. If I could just list out how I feel now and how I felt before, I just felt the need to spread the message. So when I wanted to podcast, it was more about other people bringing in the Aussie relatable mum experience to talk about how it showed up for them. That's how it started. But I think the way that ADHD is it started, but I think the way that ADHD is it just spread and I think people like me who listened to it got diagnosed and there's thousands and thousands of them now that then spread the word and, of course, neurodiverse people. We love each other. So if someone gets diagnosed, they tell all of their friends, who are probably all neurodivergent, and then everyone wants to come on and talk and it has been the most validating experience.

Speaker 3: 23:32

A lot of people thank me for the podcast. It's a community podcast. It's not monetized. I don't have programs, I don't have online subscriptions and all that stuff and I have fully respect to people that do it that way, absolutely, and I think they should be paid if they need. You know, absolutely. Let's keep it going. For me I haven't done that, but the joy that I get in the validation from the community is something that is so special and that's why I do it. So that was a massively long answer. The other thing that I'm just going to throw out there, nikki, that is really important for me to spread the message about this is actually a primary reason for the podcast is my experience as a teenager. We know that people with ADHD and you know what? Let's just I know you're going to ask me what ADHD is. Let's, let me just ask my own questions to myself and then answer them.

Speaker 1: 24:20

No, I'm honestly, I'm just sitting here, mesmerized and resonating, so please just go. Just go If you want to know what ADHD is.

Speaker 3: 24:30

It's like someone that like, asks themselves their questions, answers them on a podcast and doesn't let the host speak.

Speaker 1: 24:37

That's the best podcast. I hate podcasts where they're like I just want to hear your story. I'm honestly I'm not hosting here, I'm listening, so please, please, just go.

Speaker 3: 24:49

Well, I know that you're talking about the what is ADHD? And look, yes, let's start at the beginning. So ADHD, it is a stupid name, right, it is not the right name. I love the fact that autistic people and the autistic community have stopped or they have become very clear that they do not enjoy the word ASD. It is that ASD is short for autism spectrum disorder. They do not believe it's a disorder, it's a difference. It's a difference in their brain. You can't medicate, you can't fix it. It's just a different way that the brain works. And I have autistic people in my family and so I'm very versed on the autistic community and I absolutely agree with that. It sucks that ADHD is still stuck with the D for disorder.

Speaker 3: 25:34

Adhd stands for attention deficit, hyperactive disorder. It doesn't fit. There is actually no issue with attention. I don't believe there's an issue with attention. I think it's a variable attention.

Speaker 3: 25:47

Yes, I have children in my house. They can do three weeks worth of homeschooling in a day. They can focus for 12, 16 hours. It's hard to turn my daughter off. It's hard to turn me off. Look at me, go, am I paying attention? Absolutely, absolutely. But if I'm doing, things I'm not interested in are boring to me. They're not in my skill set. I do struggle to pay attention at the gym this morning. It's not something I enjoy doing. You know they do the whole. This is what we're going to do today at the gym. Oh, give me a million dollars and I can't tell you what they say at the end. It's really difficult. I don't know what they're talking about. My, my husband's a personal trainer and he reckons every time he trains me or I train, it's like I start again because I'm so, so inattentive with things that I don't really want to do. And children are like that too. Adults are like that, and every person is different. Everyone with ADHD is different. You can break them up into three types, if we had to, and that would be inattention, hyperactivity or combined, which is like you know the person that's got both. I have both. I believe most people have both, but you know they break them up.

Speaker 3: 27:01

Everyone seems to still be identifying with the stigma of the. You know the eight-year-old boy that's disruptive, or you disruptive, or he's in the classroom, he's hitting people, he's jumping around, he can't sit on the mat. It's very old school thinking. However, there are still people out there that cannot see the difference.

Speaker 3: 27:16

I am incredibly hyperactive, incredibly, but you wouldn't know it as a child or as an adult because, yes, I will butt in, I will talk over the top of people, I get very excited, I'm impulsive and I'm cognitively hyperactive as fuck. I cannot switch off. But can I sit and listen to things I'm interested in? Yes, so as a child, I was never diagnosed, and this is one of the reasons a podcast exists, because if you're a mother listening to this and you identify with it, just be aware of how your daughters present. A lot of them are very internal although my son is very internal too and he does not display any disruptive things at all but they're the kids that when you get them home or they get into the car, they lose their mind. They hold and hold and hold and they want to be good but they can't, or you know, they're scared of getting the rights of doing the wrong thing and they'll mask so, what masking is is when someone covers up their deficits.

Speaker 3: 28:22

So you know, for example, I probably wouldn't tell people that I didn't know the Seesaw app login. I would say that now openly, but at the time I wouldn't. I would just nod and smile oh yes, I've got the library bag in the car, just got to go grab that and it's like covering up, covering up. But then later at night when I was in the shower, I would feel like I'm failing. I'm failing at this. My poor child didn't have a library bag again. What day is that thing on? Why don't I know?

Speaker 3: 28:52

And it's that self-esteem beating up that can be really hard on kids, and we know they get so many more negative messages too. But if you were to take a boy and a girl with ADHD, this is a good example, right? And this is where I think it sucks for girls, because they just don't get diagnosed as much. Let's say that they're in the schooling environment, or it could be the working environment, any structured environment really. And let's say there's a piece of homework. So, okay, the boy is there and he hasn't done his. He's lest it to the last minute and he might realize it may be seven or eight o'clock at night but he's busy gaming or doing his things. He doesn't care enough and he goes.

Speaker 3: 29:33

I just hope that tomorrow no one notices and he doesn't say anything to anybody, turns up hands. Nothing in Happens enough time the teacher or, you know, the workplace or the extracurricular place will eventually say something to the parent. Your child has not been doing anything at all. You know, these are the reasons and we're recommending this for an assessment. They actually can pick it up pretty easily. The daughter with society pressures and I'm just generalising, but this is what I see a lot is that the girl will get to 7 o'clock and they will go oh my God, I haven't started and they will be bound with anxiety. Perfectionism kicks in, society cues they want to be the good girl.

Speaker 3: 30:16

Good girl kicks in, right, what do they do? They go to their mother or father you know parental whoever and says to them oh my God, I have not done my project. Mum, dad, whoever it is sits up with them till 10 o'clock at night. So the mum or dad is really upset with the child. At this point, right, they're like look, this is not good. Every time you need something due, this is this whole big thing. And they start to piece it together at home.

Speaker 3: 30:44

But from the teacher's point of view, the daughter hands in the piece of homework on time. She doesn't say anything. And then when their parents start going at home, gee, she's hard to get ready in the morning. She's got a lot of anxiety. She doesn't have anything that she's supposed to have. I took her to school again. She didn't have her shoes, had to go home again and there's all these things that keeps mounting up. But when they talk to the teacher, the teacher says everything's fine. So I took my daughter to a pediatrician from when she was two. I took her over and over again.

Speaker 3: 31:14

I talked to the prep teacher and the grade one teacher, who said to me it's absolutely not ADHD. I even have an email list right. This is hilarious of me emailing the teacher in grade one, going I think she might have ADHD. The person wrote back and put I've had those people with ADHD before, trust me, it's not that Maybe she can't hear. Go and get a hearing tested. And then I wrote back and put can you also tell me when library day is? And seesaw passwords? I don't seem to know what's happening. Could you ring me? I don't understand the homework and it's like all written with terrible grammar, like really quickly, I'm clearly on the fly somewhere and then she's written back no problems. Tried to call you again. You're not answering. Still have you blocked my number? It's like the email trial is just the best red flag which is reassuring me constantly that there's nothing going on. I'm going. There really seems like there is anyway.

Speaker 3: 32:11

Um, so my, my big point is that when I went into grade seven, very hyperactive and impulsive, I joined all of the teams. I was very um interested in being the good girl. I love the dopamine hit of getting a certificate being the captain. I loved it all and the accolades. It was a real dopamine hit for me. So I joined in all the all the clubs and it was a long drive on the bus. It wasn't in our local community.

Speaker 3: 32:40

It was a massive transition for me, um, from a very small school that you know. My mom knew the office lady. We caught up with her on the weekends. You know it was a very, very cocooned environment. I came from to a big school all girls elite and I know that's a privileged place to be able to go to a private school. It's still stressful. It actually is very stressful If you have an ADHD, hyperactive mind or look any neurodivergent child or look I'd argue whether it's the right environment for any child. But anyway, that particular school actually had an investigation after I left, for because I had so many girls in the eating disorder clinic in the hospital after I left.

Speaker 3: 33:20

But anyway. So my point is that for me, I ended up having a huge breakdown when I was 14, 15. And I broke down hard. And that was back in a time when no one knew what depression was, no one knew what anxiety was, and it was definitely unheard of for a child who seemingly had nothing going on. He was doing so well they weren't an adult.

Speaker 3: 33:47

Why were they doing so? Well, what's the problem? I also masked for my parents because I didn't understand what was happening and I didn't feel safe, or my parents were beautiful, so it's not about them, it was more about me maybe not wanting to break the good girl facade, oh yeah, and it sort of went on for a long period. And recently I've been told a couple of different times that I'm autistic as well, and I'm pretty confident that I am. I think I probably have imposter syndrome at the moment, where it's difficult for me to say I am autistic, and I think probably in that six to 12 months I'll look back at this and go. I don't know why. I had a problem saying with it, but I feel like at the moment I'm not autistic enough, or you know imposter syndrome that I'm taking it from somebody I'm doing well yeah.

Speaker 3: 34:36

Like what? What right do I have to say that? But I have been diagnosed with autism and I've looked back on a lot of the periods of my life with this roller coaster and I can see autistic burnout. A lot of girls who are autistic go through that, particularly in the transition to high school. And for me the other thing is as well. It's massive. And see, from the parents' point of view too, they're like well, go to school, that's what you do. So I didn't have a break. There was no time to rest.

Speaker 1: 35:09

No mental health days then?

Speaker 3: 35:12

No, no, no, my parents were definitely not about mental health days. It was definitely a suck up and keep going attitude, which was kind of the time that was the norm then, wasn't it?

Speaker 3: 35:21

That was the norm Mental health break. Like people would not understand that at all, anyway. So by the time that I was kind of caught out, I had some very serious, heavy stuff going on. You know I was attempting suicide. I had a pretty good eating disorder running pretty ingrained and I was in a really bad place At that time. The thought pattern was that you drop your child off at the psychiatrist or the doctor's like a bag of potatoes, fix that one. That was the mentality, yeah, and I was given a lot of antidepressants, drugs to sleep, uppers, downers, valiums, a lot of therapy and my poor parents paid for it. All took me around different places. None of it helped. It went on for years.

Speaker 3: 36:13

I actually think a lot of the antidepressants made me more suicidal, if I'm honest, oh gosh, and the fact that they kept putting them up because they didn't know what else to do. I remember trying to eat cereal and my hands were shaking so much I couldn't even eat on the spoon. I was so medicated and kept putting the same environment to school over and over and over again and 100%. I look back on that time as the hardest time in my life, definitely lived a full life. My parents both have passed away who I was very close with and that would not compare to what I went through as a child. So I always back up the kids and I always say to people that you know they say they have school, can't, or they're down, or I think it's ridiculous, what do they have to worry about?

Speaker 3: 37:00

I actually always say to the parents now, you don't know, though, this actually might be the hardest time in their life. They have no reserves, they've got no ability to cope and what are they going through. So for me, I look back on that and the message that I got hard in my heart was there is something wrong with me, because why am I taking these meds? Why am I in these therapies? Everybody knows, because it was very public, you know gossip, and it's hard to cover that stuff up too when you're obviously physically and mentally going so badly. And I was rebelling, drinking, I was all over the shop. So for me, looking back, I just think if I was diagnosed or treated differently or giving neuroaffirming therapy, medicated properly, which my little brother was getting the medication I now take, oh, you're joking, which was?

Speaker 3: 37:57

not his fault.

Speaker 1: 37:58

No, not his fault. It was not his fault, but I'm lighting up.

Speaker 3: 38:00

But the disparity, I'm lighting up 20 bloody tablets and he's just taking one and feeling better. That I take now and feeling good, right and the injustice of it. Looking back kills me and that's why I'm here, that's why I do the podcast, because I just want other people to know and I want daughters to be saved from this crap that I went through, and I think the teenage girls I mean. Yes, of course we live in a privileged country and I get that there's some awful stuff going on, but let's not look over the young girls that are coming through that are in absolute pieces at 14, 15, 16 years old. And I a% know that I was in an autistic burnout because I look back at what helped me. How did I get out of it?

Speaker 1: 38:54

I would love to know.

Speaker 3: 38:55

Wasn't it with the therapies or the meds?

Speaker 1: 38:56

Well, actually this is an interesting story.

Speaker 3: 39:00

Yes, I want to know because, as an ex-high school teacher.

Speaker 1: 39:04

Part of me wants to just say oh, school's so different. It's a lot harder, and it it is. There's a lot of pressure, but I don't know that the basic environment has changed. So I think, while it has got harder and there is more pressure, I think the baseline is still there from 30 years ago. That would stress any like most children out, I think. So I would love to know what has worked, what worked for you?

Speaker 3: 39:35

Well, again being diagnosed has really helped me, because one of the things that I've done this year which has, hands down, been one of the most interesting things I've done is I actually thought to myself I have been diagnosed with pretty much nearly everything. At this point I would like to know what is going on with my brain, and I think people that are neurodiverse, adhd, autistic, particularly women, often miss social cues. So I've been through some significant sexual assaults in my life where you know you're told later on that you deserved it, or you know you led them on or whatever it is. I honestly, really my intention was never to do that.

Speaker 3: 40:10

I don't know looking back, because I've been so gaslit, and then I just think that makes sense if I'm autistic, because I'm not picking up what's going on necessarily as well, you know, is it PTSD which I've been diagnosed with? What is it? And so I sat down with a clinical psych who's actually become a really good friend of mine, and we went through everything, everything, all of it, all of the testing, and it's cognitively too memory, all of it as to how my brain works. Hang on a second, I've lost where I was going. Okay, great, yes.

Speaker 3: 40:48

So when she diagnosed me with as autistic, I wanted to unpack my teenage years. What happened? Why, why, why did I get better? What happened? And I can only put it down to one thing, which I've always said but made no sense, which I've always said but made no sense when I was diagnosed with autism and the psychologist took me through autistic burnout, I said to her do you think that I wasn't actually depressed or had anxiety? I mean, I was at 15, diagnosing myself with bipolar off the DSM in the library, because I knew there was something innately not right with me, something going on.

Speaker 3: 41:32

Because this isn't just depression anxiety. I am off my rocker, and that was all. Dismissed, dismissed, dismissed, dismissed.

Speaker 1: 41:38

What a scary awful place to be. It must have felt so lonely. It was awful.

Speaker 3: 41:44

Well, that's why I was so suicidal, because I was like this is just, I actually think. I was like this is just, I actually think there's nobody, and even though my poor parents anyway. So, basically, my high school eventually I went from grade seven to 10. I didn't go to the last two years of high school, I think maybe I went a couple of weeks here and there. I was enrolled but I didn't attend really, and then the decision was made that I should go to college at a different place. It was a co-ed college, a bit of a lesser school, and my brother went there and he didn't want me to go there because I think he was pretty ashamed of my behavior.

Speaker 3: 42:20

Clearly I'd been off the rails for years and it was kind of like a last ditch attempt. Right before I finished year 10, it was my birthday and this is kind of before the internet was big, so there wasn't a lot of research. But my parents had made friends with these people that were really into Tony Robbins and he was doing a conference in Sydney and I think my mom was pretty much like anything at this point is a good thing to do. She had offered for me to go swimming with the dolphins at SeaWorld, because she thought I might have a magical experience and have a spiritual alignment. She wasn't even spiritual, right, she just was so desperate, Just wanted something to help right.

Speaker 1: 43:05

Oh, how's the love?

Speaker 3: 43:06

And she's thinking what we're doing. Oh, she's so beautiful. I just miss her so much and I wish I could talk to her, because I felt like she really took it on as her own fault when it really wasn't we just we didn't have the knowledge in society, then we just didn't it's just shit, I really wanted to talk to her about it, but anyway.

Speaker 3: 43:25

So anyway, she said to me I'll take you up to this Tony Robbins seminar in Sydney and I was like, oh, actually I'd done reading on him and I was really into mental health, clearly because I'd been through a lot and I was attempting to come off medication because I knew that it wasn't working. And my parents didn't even care that I was coming off medication, to be honest, because I think they just thought, well, who cares at this point that I was coming off medication, to be honest, because I think they just thought, well, who cares at this point? She's been on it for three years, nothing's helping. So I was basically housebound. I loved being at home, which is a very autistic burnout thing that you just want to be a home alone, in four walls, quietly, and I loved having my mum in the house, not with me, just like they are like a body doubling thing, and we were pretty tight, even though I was going through a really hard time.

Speaker 3: 44:14

Anyway, she took me up to this conference and it was the Live it. Whatever their introduction one is Power of Now. No, that's the book. Anyway, it was Tony Robbins' first introduction workshop and when I went there I was on I was like this is, hands down, the most fascinating, most cool thing I have ever done and remember this is way before personal development was cool. These people were like tree huggers. That was the thought pattern back then. It was like, oh, the greens and tree huggers and homeschoolers and hippies and

Speaker 3: 44:49

you know, tony Robbins, people all in one weird lefty bucket. That was the, that was, you know, and now it's all mainstreamed and everything, but back then it was a really it wasn't cool. I suppose is the point. It was very progressive, yeah, and he really talked about health and wellness and about, you know, succeeding and I don't know. It's just all personal development stuff and I just switched on in a way that I never have it's like that uh autistic kind of special interest kicked in. And for me, psychology, mental health, has been my focus since I had hit that first workshop with him. I walked in, he did the introduction and I was like I mean I hadn't done cocaine, but I was like I wasn't thinking I can imagine this is it.

Speaker 3: 45:39

Like this is a high that I have never experienced before and for me it just unlocked my mind and special interest. And autistic people generally get not generally, but often get misdiagnosed as bipolar because it's that roller coaster of up and downs, right, and that looked very bipolar-y. How can you come out of that serious depression like that and pop back up on a high from hell? How can you do that? You can if you're autistic.

Speaker 3: 46:07

So, I came out of the burnout, I took myself off meds. I did have some very quiet time at home with my family and I read and read, and read, listened to all of the CDs and by the time I hit year 11, I was on fire. I picked psychology, sociology, all of the human sciences and you know I went back to some of my old patterns, if I'm honest, because you know I was still unmedicated ADHD. So I did go back, you know, did the school leader thing and I did go back pretty hard. I drank probably a bit more binge drinkery, a bit more acceptable teenage behavior as opposed to just you know.

Speaker 1: 46:44

Teenage self-medication was binge drinking.

Speaker 3: 46:47

Yeah, exactly, and you know, when you don't have any impulse control and someone you know you're sharing a bottle of vodka, it's like, well, you're just chugging it at that point because you're so excited. Yeah, and you know people. I remember my dad teaching me how to measure it, like I don't think he realised that I'm not a measuring cup person.

Speaker 1: 47:06

And A where am I going to find a shot Like where am I going to find a measuring Like that would have been lost? Who does that?

Speaker 3: 47:11

I just drank it next to a fire. I fell into the fire one day I was fully nuts, but anyway. So I was absolutely on fire and I went through, nearly got a perfect score in year 12, got into psychology and I've always, always said that the number one thing I wanted to do was to sort out, I suppose, what I went through as a teenager because I couldn't understand it and help other teenagers not go through it. It's only been in the last couple of years that I've realized well recently, that I realized I'm autistic and it was a burnout. And when I listened to the autistic burnout courses from Tony Upwood and Michelle Garnett who are incredible if anyone's interested in doing more on this, they are incredible. I'm actually interviewing them in my podcast this Wednesday, which I'm very excited about.

Speaker 3: 48:01

So they actually talk about autistic burnout. They talk about girls and they talk about how many girls have been saved from themselves, from homeschooling because of the environment, and it's basically just a recipe for disaster, but nobody knows. And then resilience some parents think resilience is to continue to push your child back in because you know if you stop making them go, they're never going to go back there, which probably would seem true to some people, but so for me. I love to spread the message about what neurodivergency looks like in women, because I just think it kills me to think that my daughter could have gone through that too. That would have been highly triggering for me. I would have taken her to a paediatrician. We would have given her antidepressants.

Speaker 1: 48:50

Can you imagine the triggers from that? Because it would have.

Speaker 3: 48:53

Oh my God, it just would be a mess. So I suppose and you know, that's one of the reasons that we did that such a successful episode together on homeschooling, which came out of nowhere, nikki.

Speaker 1: 49:05

It really did, didn't it? Just when I was?

Speaker 3: 49:06

starting to question is this the right place for my daughter? And then I spoke to you and was like oh no, this is now putting me on a path of homeschooling, which I was not expecting. You haven't listened to our podcast together.

Speaker 1: 49:21

You should have a listen to Jane's podcast and listen to the cogs clicking of her realisation that she's going to have to start homeschooling. I could see it happening.

Speaker 3: 49:33

It just all dropped in.

Speaker 1: 49:34

It really did, and I could see that, oh God, oh God, please, no, please, no, I'm not ready, I don't want to. You could see it all happening live and I was very much sorry, not sorry, sorry, not sorry like hopefully it works and I was very much sorry, not sorry, sorry, not sorry. Like hopefully it works.

Speaker 3: 49:53

Oh, but you know, what I did an episode on, you know, for your daughter, sorry. I did an episode on ADHD and autism and there was an autistic psychologist that I interviewed and then I was ADHD and we talked about the differences between us and the way we present. But everything she said I was saying and then you can hear all these long pauses when I'm like, oh shit, I think I'm autistic. You can just hear me on there going oh, I do that too. And she's going that's a very autistic thing. And then at the end of it she's like you just need to get assessed and it was like I don't want really that live, but then it's so powerful to have it.

Speaker 1: 50:32

It is, it is and it's so affirming for others to see. Yes, you've had very hard and dark times, but there's a light. There's a light and there's, and it might be really difficult, a to get a diagnosis or B to find the right medication or all of the above, but there's, you know, there's people and there's examples and I just think, gosh, what you're doing is you imagine the teenage? I can't tell you the amount of teenagers and particularly girls, that had you know school can't. And I look at them now, knowing what I know, because I haven't been teaching in that system for eight years now seven, eight years and I just think, oh, what I know.

Speaker 1: 51:13

Now I would say to the parent is it just anxiety? I don't think it is. Yes, I think the environment might be causing anxiety, but there's a reason that we're not able to cope in these systems. These brains alert, we're on high alert, going danger, danger, danger. I'm protecting, trying to protect myself in this environment and that often leads to that burnout and shutdown. And I can see that now. I can see in that school car that shutdown and that burnout and I just, oh, I wish I could go back and let them all know.

Speaker 3: 51:49

Yeah, it's hard, isn't it? And the other thing I feel for parents is because sometimes you know they could listen to a podcast like this or um, you know, see something on tv or tiktok. They could then go to the gp who you know says no, no, they're fine, as it's happened to me before, don't even get the referral. You could even get to the pediatrician.

Speaker 3: 52:10

Wait the year, pay the six hundred dollars to get somebody that doesn't see the signs and say, no, they fine. And then the parent, in fairness to them, goes well, we've ruled that out, yeah, next, and then continues on. So it's so important to advocate for your child regardless. So if you have a child, particularly a girl, who struggles to get ready for school, stomach aches is a big one. They generally have a lot of stomach aches and they are, you know, told that they need to apply themselves a bit more. They talk a lot, they're very intense, you know, but then they have a lot of anxiety at home. They often don't have the things that they're supposed to have.

Speaker 3: 52:53

A lot of them are very inattentive but also hyperactive. And you know they're the kid that follows you around talking and talking, and talking. I've got two of them. And you know they're the kid that follows you around talking and talking, and talking. I've got two of them. And you know, sometimes as parents, we just know there's something not right. And you know it can be really good to go into a Facebook group in your local community. You know Sunshine Coast, mums, is where we go, nikki.

Speaker 3: 53:16

But, you know there's other areas of course as well and say is there someone neuroaffirming, is there a clinical psychologist or a pediatrician that understands neurodivergence in girls? Ask those questions first, because otherwise you risk going to somebody that isn't up to date.

Speaker 1: 53:34

I want to thank you for the resources that you put out, because I have downloaded them and I plan on reading them, but I haven't got there yet because I haven't put it in my calendar and I haven't got an alert saying it's time to read these.

Speaker 1: 53:50

Oh, it might be a red flag, green flag, I'm going to call it. There's a few red flags with you. You think if you could have seen me trying to get onto Jane's podcast and the absolute mess. I arrived in late skidding in the doorway, headphones not working and I podcast for a living. This is what I do, so it should just be organized and routine, but it is still not, for some reason, even today. Jane said can you send me that Zoom link? I went hmm, that would be a handy thing to send as a confirmation email. I have templates. I didn't send you the template.

Speaker 3: 54:31

I love it because you can so pick it up, because when you came in you were so flustered. Then you told me about all the things that you had done to try to ensure that you were on time. So you'd done all this extra stuff to like try and scaffold yourself. All of it had stuffed up, yeah, and we had all these emails because you'd asked someone to email me so I didn't have your contacts this whole mess by the time you arrived and you finished apologising right, that's when we didn't even press record. I was like can I just confirm, do you have ADHD press record? I was like, can I just confirm, do you have ADHD? Because I thought how does she, does she? I was so confused because your bio said you didn't have it. Yeah, all of the like indicators were there still haven't gone and actually got a diagnosis.

Speaker 1: 55:12

And it's funny because my sister and I joke about it as well. She's way more hyperactive than me can can do, quote, unquote, 50 things at once, shaking my head at that, and we bring the chaos, you know. And it's only because I've chosen homeschooling, I've chosen to run my own business, I've chosen to do all these things that allow this to not allow me to be fired. You can't fire me for being late, you can't fire me for doing these things. That I'm succeeding in this business and because I surround myself by other women who understand it as well, guarantee there would be a dozen, a dozen assessments that would be positive in this office.

Speaker 3: 55:55

Oh, absolutely, and you know your, your clientele, I would imagine, are going to be pretty neurodivergent. The wildlings, morris, kindy and you know some vacation cares that I've been to I've stayed at, some I've left, you know other ones, and the chats that I've had are always very neurodivergent. I always end up in a deep and meaningful, with somebody you know standing next to some mudslide and my children are going down there repeatedly with their kids going, psycho, throwing mud at us. And there's, you know, someone there going. Do you feel really stressed out? All the time? I do, and then, like changing the subject, I think going. I booked this non-refundable trip to Fiji. Should I go? I don't. Actually it's on the credit card, I haven't paid for it, it's just always the most crazy conversation, jeez, the forest makes me feel good.

Speaker 1: 56:38

I feel so calm down here.

Speaker 3: 56:41

Oh yeah, totally the scaffolding, but then we talk about things that are very neurodivergent afterwards. One thing I do want to touch on before we go Nikki, because I'm imagining there's going to be people on here who are probably possibly going to be neurodivergent, because that is going to be the group.

Speaker 1: 56:59

I can already pick our main listeners nodding along. I can see who is listening going. Oh, please tell me more, jane.

Speaker 3: 57:07

So what? I'm imagining that they're going to be thinking this could be off.

Speaker 3: 57:11

I'm imagining that they're going to be listening going. Well, that sounds really nice for that lady Jane. I wish her well on her journey. And they shut off the podcast and move along with their life, because who prioritizes themselves? Nobody.

Speaker 3: 57:25

I would not have got a diagnosis either and I wouldn't have looked for medication either. The reason I told that story is because I was rock bottomy when I was like I'm going to have to do something because I am in. It's too much. I've now gotten to a point where I must do something and I really like to spread the word on the benefits of a diagnosis. Yes, please, for an adult and for a mother, right, let's just strip it right back.

Speaker 3: 57:53

Pre-medication, jane, and I'm going to be brutally honest. I had never sat down and played with my children. And I'm going to be brutally honest, I had never sat down and played with my children. Reason being too stressed, too anxious, wanted to set up lots of things, love my children completely. Never sat down and played, because I would sit there and then feel a sense of doom that what I should be doing, and never be able to relax, and then I would also be very impatient, relax, and then I would also be very impatient, impulsive, and I would then be on my phone, not texting, writing down a to-do list of other things I should be doing, and I would never, ever, ever be able to be present ever, never knew when school was, never knew any of the things. Right, obviously all the stuff, but in terms of actually being a mother and a wife, I could never sit down and have lunch with my husband. I didn't give him enough time. I would finish his sentences very impatient, bit of mum rage and a bit angry.

Speaker 1: 58:48

I need my husband to listen to this. The old cutting him off and finishing his sentences is his pet peeve.

Speaker 3: 58:54

And then just like, oh, and there's like a long story and you just want to get to it. You're like, yeah, okay, so then you left, and then you got home and you had lunch, is that it?

Speaker 1: 59:10

yeah, I just was quite abrasive in my I know how this is going to finish.

Speaker 3: 59:11

Let me finish it for you totally exactly. And my husband would say to me you can be quite rude sometimes. That would be his what he would say to me quite often. And then he would come over to touch me and I'd physically withdraw and I'd be like why are you touching me? I have so much on my mind right now, leave me alone. That would be my general demeanor. So now, having taken medication, right? Who again? My husband didn't want me to take medication. I took it for a little bit and then wanted to see how I'd feel if I came off. I didn't tell him I was off medication, but two hours in he said to me Jane, you got to go for a walk or something because you're off your head. That was what he said to me, right? And I was like okay, so medication really is a necessity because you get used to the way it makes you feel.

Speaker 1: 59:58

And everybody else does too says me interrupting.

Speaker 3: 1:00:06

Everybody else does so people. So I take Vyvanse, which is a long acting dexamphetamine version right, you can find out more about meds if you want to go on the podcast and all the different types, et cetera, et cetera. But basically that's the one I take. It's different for everybody, so don't think that's the one If you're just like me. Everyone's body is different, so that's not necessarily the right one for you. But so I take one in the morning and sometimes in the afternoon. I take like a top up. So it's long acting, it goes for eight hours. And then sometimes, if my husband's working at night, I will also take an afternoon one to get me through. When I take medication I feel calm, I feel like I have enough time.

Speaker 3: 1:00:39

I feel like things are achievable. I can just jump in there and get the list done. I'm able to get down on the ground with my kids and say to them hey, it's okay, let's just find the tennis ball that you need to take to school. I understand that rushing them takes longer. A lot of the parenting strategies that I'd heard I'd never been able to do, and I realize now that I had not taken enough time with my kids to actually explain to them what was going to happen before we went. I never allowed enough time in the planning. I needed to allow 10 to 15 minutes to get them in the car. If I don't allow that time for them, that's on me, but yet I would operate as if I didn't have children and expect to get in the car at the last minute and they just follow me not having them not having packed properly.

Speaker 3: 1:01:26

Oh no, I mean, I still struggle with shoes we've gone on net, we've actually walked across tarmacs multiple times back and forward without shoes, because they won't let you on the plane without shoes.

Speaker 1: 1:01:36

We lost three pairs on our recent road trip. Three pairs in less than a week.

Speaker 3: 1:01:41

It's just. It's just terrible, isn't it? But anyway. So now, medicated Jane, I will be able to have lunch with my husband and I can actually break it down for him what's going on with me. I can say to him hey, it's actually really good for me if you can just let me know when you're coming home and I'm happy to make time for you.

Speaker 3: 1:01:58

They say that Vyvanse doesn't emotionally regulate people. I really beg to differ. Every single mother I have spoken to is emotionally regulated better on Vyvanse. I'm able to be more patient with my kids, I can sit down and play cards with them, I can do the gardening with my daughter, I can take the time that I need with her and I am all around a much better person and I can do all of the tasks easily. Go to get the phone from their email, I can put it onto the calendar. I suppose I'm just happier, calmer. My kids are happier If you are somebody and you're like oh, but I'm just going to prioritize my children, because there's only one that's struggling at school, or there's one that's disruptive, or there's one that's not learning, I won't worry about myself.

Speaker 3: 1:02:48

I would say think about the plane where they say put your own mask on before you put someone else's mask on. If you were going to medicate one person in your family, it should be the mother. Make it you. We are the nucleus, we are the most important, we are the VIP. If you're off, everyone's off. I think prioritising a diagnosis for a mother is, hands down, the most important thing. I medicated myself first and it actually got me to a point where I was able to then coordinate a paediatrician, pick one, get a referral, take them there. Couldn't do that before.

Speaker 1: 1:03:21

That's overwhelming, the thought of that is overwhelming.

Speaker 3: 1:03:24

Totally, but why you can't do that if you're not medicated yourself. And obviously some people don't need it. They can't. I understand that, but I'm just saying for women who aren't even considering it. I think it's really a priority. And again, this has been a journey for me too. Even when I was medicated myself, I still didn't medicate my kids. I thought, oh no, their brains are learning. I wouldn't medicate a child. I was medicated as a child. Look how that turned out for me, right? Okay? So I went to the pediatrician, not wanting medication particularly. I actually wanted some help for one of my children toilet training and some other stuff and she actually squared me up in the eye. This is the best pediatrician on the coast that I'd verified with a lot of different people. If it wasn't her, I would have ignored her and thought I knew better.

Speaker 1: 1:04:14

You've been so lucky with some of your providers.

Speaker 3: 1:04:18

Oh no, Well, I'm actually someone who waits. I will sit and wait and call them repeatedly until I get in. So I'm a real pest.

Speaker 1: 1:04:25

Yeah, good hot tip.

Speaker 3: 1:04:27

I'm a real pest and I also research who they're friends with GPs and I go there and get referrals from them and I ring repeatedly.

Speaker 1: 1:04:34

Nice so hot tip, you heard it here.

Speaker 3: 1:04:37

You can coordinate that medicated. So hot tip, you heard it here you can coordinate that medicated, so anyway. So I'm there with my daughter and the pediatrician looks me in the eye and said I don't understand why you, who has ADHD, who takes ADHD medication, would deprive your daughter from taking it. Ooh, stab me in the heart why don't you?

Speaker 3: 1:05:01

I said to her oh man, it was hard. But I actually said to her give it to me fast and hard because I like it, which probably was, but then I had to pretend I was okay with it. Anyway, I said to her okay, explain to me, like you know, how that's going to work. And I had lots of questions and she explained to me neurodiplasticity in the brain and gave me research articles which I went home and read. Now what we do know, and I'm happy to provide references on this this isn't me talking from some TikTok video.

Speaker 3: 1:05:27

This is from a pediatrician and I've read the study that came out of a psychiatrist who has studied ADHD. They actually studied 10,000 people with ADHD and children. They talked about how children with ADHD that are unmedicated are more likely to be unemployed, go to jail, be impulsive, have underachievement at school, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah, and about what the benefits are long-term. We know that if you scan a child with ADHD, you scan their brain. Their brain is going to be smaller in areas, it's going to be underdevelopeded and it does not work as well as a child who's neurotypical. So they're basically doing their best, right? My children had average marks. They weren't underachieving, so I thought they were fine, they're fine aren't they?

Speaker 3: 1:06:12

But then she said to me so what if they're gifted? So what if you're depriving them? Then she actually showed me the study and she showed me about how and the percentages in the study that the children's brain if you give them ADHD medication, proper ones for their brain, that's prescribed properly, their brain will actually mature and evolve and heal itself and end up a neurotypical brain at 25 or younger, depending on how fast their frontal lobe develops. So if you want to have your child have a chance of operating neurotypically and not taking medication long-term, medicate them early and that for me has pushed me. I medicate mine and I check everything. I'm nuts on research. I don't take for face value what someone tells me. I medicate two of my children now. Let me tell you the benefits are out of this world for them and it's not about behavior. We're not medicating for convenience. I can parent my kids fine unmedicated. It is a bit easier medicated, let me tell you, but it's more the fact that they get more positive responses from people.

Speaker 1: 1:07:25

Oh, and it's that, isn't it the difference in the negative feedback loop? On your self-esteem and your self-confidence and your thoughts about your intelligence.

Speaker 3: 1:07:35

That alone forms a brain and forms an opinion. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I don't want my child going. There's something wrong with me. You know my son was already saying to me I'm a terrible reader, I can't learn. I hate this. I hate that it's turned him around. He was in the bottom. I think he was in the bottom one or two. He couldn't read at all. He's gone up all this way on the readers, gone up all this way on the readers. And actually I just had him tested. You wouldn't believe he's gifted. I would never have thought that.

Speaker 3: 1:08:02

Oh, she called it, she bloody called it I know Well, only in a specific area, yeah, but he's not gifted all around. But I suppose what I'm saying is I started to see it differently because I think I don't want my children at 35 years old to go geez, mom, my life would have been different if I had medicated, and now I'm medicated forever because my brain's stuffed. I'm already an adult, I'm done right, I've got to make the best of what I've got. But they don't. And I just think.

Speaker 3: 1:08:36

And then also as well, if you think about all the therapies right, and all the sitting down and teaching your child about teamwork, I've got one who's not very good at teamwork. He got the best and fairest last year for his sport but they actually said to me he's not the fairest, he's the best, but you need to talk to him about his fairness, which I completely agreed with. His team's very woeful, but I was doing all these therapies and sitting down with him and videos on teamwork and being a leader and all this stuff. It didn't work. He was just a pest, a negative pest. Medicated, he will actually pass the ball. He will say well done to other people, he will wait his turn and socially he now is having all these wins and he's getting all this positive reinforcement and so it's not about medicating for convenience. I really disagree with that.

Speaker 3: 1:09:26

But I get why people say it, because I was like that too, but I look at it now and think it's actually only the entitled that get to be diagnosed and medicated. It's the people that can afford it, that have the time that have the parent and have to fight for their daughters. It sucks. Yeah, but if you're in that position and you can do it, it's worth it. It's really worth it.

Speaker 1: 1:09:50

Oh, thank you for that. Kick up the absolute ass today. I feel like we've had a great exchange. I have talked a lot, but Nikki if there's anyone who wants more information. Yes, please.

Speaker 3: 1:10:06

Oh, I know, Nikki, so look, I know that I've given you a lot of information. It's probably overwhelming. If you are someone that likes to read, I have written all of the resources myself on the website. Imagine the most detailed of all detail. There's one on adult diagnosis. There's one on children diagnosis the children. One also has early intervention in the NDIS. Yes, the NDIS does not include ADHD, but there's other ways to get in for your kids. If you get in under seven, you can get in under any developmental concern. You can get in so many different ways. If you get in early before your child's seven, you don get in under any developmental concern. You can get in so many different ways If you get in early before your child's seven.

Speaker 1: 1:10:46

You don't need a diagnosis. They can get help until they're nine. Nine's pretty good, that's so helpful and it's all through the NDIS.

Speaker 3: 1:10:51

It's all diagnosable. There's also other payments through Centrelink that you can get if your child is diagnosed before seven. If they are autistic, there's $10,000 per child. It's worth it If you can find the right person. Even if it's $2,000 in assessment, if you have autism in there, you're going to get 10 grand back from Centrelink. There's ways to do it. Look it up on the resources on my website. There's absolutely no fees.

Speaker 3: 1:11:17

Send me an email. I've got my email listed everywhere. I always write back because I'm just passionate. I don't need to make money and push you into anything. Just email me, I'll help you. I'll probably regret saying that. The other thing is the adult diagnosis pathway. It's all there in black and white. It can be tricky to navigate. Don't get confused. Follow along. I've also got a Facebook group. People can write in there. I've stopped answering DMs. Just write it into the Facebook group. I guarantee an answer on every one. It's just so many people ask the same thing. The help is there. It is tricky. We can do it. I can do it and I was not somebody who I thought could have done it either. I really, really encourage anybody listening to get proactive follow along. Download something, get started. It's worth it. I am so blessed and happy to be medicated and diagnosed. It's changed my life. My daughter's life will be transformed, particularly from you, nikki, as well, with the homeschooling. I just think she's set up differently.

Speaker 1: 1:12:23

And I think yeah, I think that combo, I just think and I think that's the beauty is there's superpowers come through. Then you know, and I think we all do have those superpowers but to be able to A provide an environment where she's not stressed, b have the medication, you're going to just watch her soar. She's not going to fly, she's just going to soar. I can't wait to check back in, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 1:12:46

Absolutely, it's. Yeah, it's. Look, I'm going to. I shouldn't stop talking because I know I've just. This is probably going to be the longest episode of all time. No, but I'm really passionate about giving the message out there. It's so important to me and if you're listening, it's worth it. Go seek help.

Speaker 1: 1:13:05

So my question is where exactly can we find you? I'm going to put it in the show notes anyway, but I know a lot of you particularly won't go to the show notes, so can you say it out loud, so you can jump right on your phone right now and go and follow Jane, please?

Speaker 3: 1:13:23

Look. If you would like to know what the day in the life of an ADHD mum is, you can click on my stories. Apparently, they're very relatable and hilarious. I don't hold back. It's complete chaos. You can go on Instagram stories if you like. Otherwise, the Facebook group is awesome. There's a couple of meetups on the Sunshine Coast that people do. The podcast is on all streaming platforms and, of course, go to the resources. If you're more of a visual learner and seek help, yeah and jump on, and I just if we can get the door to sorted, I'd be really happy.

Speaker 1: 1:13:52

Yeah, oh gosh, thank you for your generosity, because I know how much time A a podcast takes, yet alone gathering those resources and keeping them up to date. But, my gosh, is that going to not just be like singular life changing. This is going to be generational life changing and even just it's not even just the Sunshine Coast, even though we've got those groups here, which is amazing, the podcast that reach that you're going to have and, like you said, the daughters, that is going to change and we need these matriarchs to be in a place where they feel held and seen and safe and sane. You know, like for you, as a 14 year old, to be seen and heard and held. What a healing, what a child, inner child healing you're doing for yourself and for your daughter and generations in your family too. Like well done, thank you.

Speaker 3: 1:14:45

Oh, thank you and thanks for having me, nikki. I appreciate it. I think we've got such synergy in our worlds that we live in and I think, yeah, the combination of diagnosis and medication and homeschooling, I think, is a real cracker. So, yeah, well done to you as well, thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:15:01

I'm going to hop off now and I'm going to actually go through the forms that I downloaded last time we spoke. Maybe I need to hold myself accountable and book in another episode so that I can then go the next step.

Speaker 3: 1:15:15

Let's follow the journey. I think it would be great actually following Nicky's journey, because you know what you'll probably get turned away from the GP or you'll get turned away from a psychiatrist.

Speaker 1: 1:15:25

It's never easy, yeah, and I would love to follow yours as well. Homeschooling and seeing what's happened?

Speaker 3: 1:15:32

Yes, actually that's a good idea. The um. The other thing is the um. Psychiatrists often will say that if you don't have symptoms in childhood, they won't diagnose you. So it'll be interesting to see how you go if you do get in front of a psychiatrist.

Speaker 1: 1:15:44

I mean, your story was a hundred percent mine, mind you, I was fine during high school, but it was because of the tiny, tiny school I stayed in. I can guarantee, guarantee. If I had gone to an elite private school, which was where I was heading, it would have been very different, very, very different, I think.

Speaker 3: 1:16:05

Yeah, yeah, probably.

Speaker 1: 1:16:07

So lucky Sliding doors moments. Hey, Thanks to the drought, couldn't go to boarding school. Thanks Mother Nature. Thank you so much. I hope this is. I know this will have resonated with a lot because we like attracts like and I am so grateful for our time. Please make sure you follow Jane and, even if it's not for yourself, if you know someone that you think it might resonate with, if you've identified anything there that looks like someone you know, please just pass on the podcast or pass on the website, because you just don't know how much you might be helping someone. Thank you again, Jane, and hopefully we can talk soon. Thank you so much, Nikki.

Speaker 1: 1:16:49

That was quite a ride for me personally that chat with Jane, and actually we chatted for another half hour off air as I've come to some really personal realizations, as I'm sure you heard the penny falling many, many times throughout the episode as I was giggling along making those connections. My hope is that this episode may be very validating for some of you, fellow mums and parents as well, and maybe it will be the kick up the bum, like it's going to be, for me to go and seek a diagnosis and just see what comes of it. If it's nothing great. I just need to go find some more executive function tools for my life, and if it is, then you know there's the beginning of a journey for me to explore and hopefully make my life a little bit easier. Our hope, too, is that it will hopefully make some teenage girls and boys around the country and around the world a little bit easier too.

Speaker 1: 1:17:45

Jane's website is an incredible, incredible resource, as is she, and she is so generous with her time. Her podcast is an incredible wealth of information as well, so if you have felt validated at all in any way in this episode, then I strongly suggest you go and check out ADHDmumscomau and she's on Instagram at ADHD underscore mums. There's a Facebook support group. There's all sorts of downloadables and self-assessment tools. It's a really, really great one-stop shop. To start Until next week. Stay wild and stay safe.