Raising Wildlings
Raising Wildlings
Turning Criticism into Growth: Navigating Feedback and Articulating Value in Nature Play Programs
Have you ever felt crushed by criticism from a parent, especially when you're pouring your heart into your business? We've been there. This week, we share our emotional journey as nature play program facilitators, discussing how initially taking negative feedback to heart, evolved into seeing it as a critical avenue for growth. By reframing criticism and using it to reaffirm our beliefs and improve communication, we’ve developed a more resilient mindset that empowers us to turn critiques into valuable learning experiences.
We also dive into the significance of clearly articulating the value and philosophy behind our nature programs to parents. Discover how emphasizing the intangible benefits—like fostering deep flow states and promoting non-traditional learning—can help parents appreciate the true impact on their children. Balancing feedback while staying true to our mission is key, and we explain why being explicit about our program’s offerings attracts the right participants. Join us for an insightful conversation on navigating feedback, maintaining authenticity, and ensuring that those who genuinely align with our goals thrive within our program.
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Other ways we can help you:
1. Ready to create your own Nature Play business? Head to www.raisingwildlings.com.au/wildbusiness to access the roadmap to starting your business journey.
2. Keen to find your purpose in 10 minutes? Download our FREE treasure map to find your passion without compromising your educational values.
3. Want to know how to craft an epic outdoor program that has parents and directors lining up to enrol? You need Nature Play Now our $57 Workshop and Bundle series (people are saying this is a steal!)
Picture this it's your seventh week running your very own nature play program. You're still very new, but you are loving this new career path as a business owner who gets to play outdoors. But then one of your families who's been attending all term tells you that they'll no longer be attending because they've realized, quote unquote your program is just not for me. Ouch, today we're going to explore how to handle criticism when not if it comes.
Speaker 2:Before I start, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast is recorded the Kabi Kabi and the Gubbi Gubbi people. I'd like to honour their songlines and storylines and pay respects to the elders, past, present and those that are emerging. I'd also like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which you are listening to this episode. Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about parenting, alternative education, stepping into the wilderness, however that looks, with your family.
Speaker 1:Each week, we'll be interviewing experts that truly inspire us to answer your parenting and education questions. We'll also be sharing stories from some incredible families that took the leap and are taking the road less travelled.
Speaker 2:We're your hosts, vicki and Nikki from Wildlings Forest School. Pop in your headphones, settle in and join us on this next adventure. Hello and welcome to the Raising Wildlings podcast. We are your hosts, vicky Oliver and Nikki Farrell. Now today, we thought it would be a really great opportunity to talk a bit about criticism, negative feedback, hearing things that make us feel really hurt, embarrassed, confused, maybe when someone's been at our program and they haven't had a good time for one reason or another.
Speaker 1:Because it will happen. Make no bones about it. You will get criticism. You cannot run a business and be a business owner without being criticized and, let's be honest, we took this really personally when you know and part of that is, you know, we are good girls, we're perfectionists, all of those things they're. Also, this is our baby. You know, we started it from a little seed and it grew and we've put everything into it. You know time, money, everything. So it did feel like even though it wasn't a bit of an attack on us personally and the thing that we loved.
Speaker 2:Yes, and because you know it's all been ideated and born through a love of what we do and a philosophy, and seeing how much of an impact it's had for us and our families and other families, it can be really jarring to hear someone say that is not the impact we're having hear someone say that is not the impact we're having.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember just feeling defeated, like we'd put all this time and effort into it and then wondering has this all just been a big waste of time? Like, have we just spent hours and days, and you know, being so excited about this, but now were people just not going to turn up? Or when they turned up, are they just going to leave? Are we going to actually have a business? Are we going to make any money out of this? It was really scary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that you know. It's so true that you can have a million five-star reviews, you can have people gushing over what you do, and all of that can fly out of your brain as soon as someone says something negative and that is all you can focus on and you cannot think of anything else, because the power of negativity can be so much more impactful than positivity. Unfortunately and it's so upsetting now when we see this coming through, because we still have to deal with this from time to time with our staff who have to with negative feedback that we may get in coaching them through that feeling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's such a terrible human condition, isn't it, that literally, we have thousands of five-star reviews and I reckon we've probably had 10 in seven years, you know, negative reviews, some of them totally unwarranted, some of them warranted but my gosh, do we remember those still? And it does take time. I think that's another thing is it just takes time to move through them. But let's have a talk about negative feedback, criticism, complaints and the fact that maybe we're looking at this all wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's taken us a long time to reframe this, even for ourselves, because there needs to be a moment of reflection.
Speaker 2:I am such a I just get really a bit icky about reflective practice and you know, sort of terms that get thrown around and I guess sometimes, even particularly in the education space, we're sort of forced to do like reflective practice. I remember being really frustrated at having to do that, but I think that there are a number of outcomes that can come from reflective practice and I think for me it always felt like I had to find something negative to fix. I think that's probably where it stems from. Now that I'm talking out loud. I think reflective practice for me always was like this admitting of something being wrong. And I've reframed that completely now because reflection can actually be a way to affirm what we already know to be true in a positive way, because that negative feedback, that criticism or that complaint may be completely wrong.
Speaker 1:And I think, just quickly going back to that negative, like you said, your initial reaction quite often particularly in a small business, when it's your baby is defense, like oh, I can't believe, oh my God would that they'd think that. But, like you said, quite often the longer and I think it's just a muscle that needs to be exercised as well is that the longer you go through with this you go. Oh, actually, exactly what you said. It's affirmed, what I believe. I just need to be clearer in it, in what I'm saying on my website.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that is maybe the takeaway from that is, maybe this is the first time it's come up, maybe you've been running for a really long time before you get some form of negative feedback and straight away you go into that defensive mode and you go actually. So it affirms what I know about myself and if I go through everything that I provide, my expectations are actually clear. Maybe it was on them. I'll probably come back to that, or maybe it is exactly that. How can I deliver my message better to my customers so that they know what to expect and they know what we're about and they know exactly what we do and what it looks like?
Speaker 1:Because sometimes the feedback is the staff did nothing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do you explain these intangible things like when?
Speaker 1:there's a more negative outcome for children because they're interrupting the play. That's a whole positive, a whole. Another podcast, that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that feedback is important to ensure that we are on the right track.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well done staff.
Speaker 2:Thank you, you're doing a great job and sometimes does that negative feeling is a really good place for us to just check. And if you come out the other side after particularly if you've got someone to talk to this through with, whether it's other staff members, whether it's another someone else who's at your program if you're checking in and finding out from someone who you do know is having a good time or a good friend, and you come out the other side and you're like I feel better about when I talk about it. I know that that doesn't feel like a true criticism or something that I need to change.
Speaker 1:I think another good thing to remember is that a hundred percent of conflicts arise from miscommunication, so generally it's just something that's been miscommunicated. Maybe, like you said, your expectations haven't been clear, whether that's in your enrollment pack or your booking sheet or your website or your socials. So often the feedback that you receive is ah, I need to be clearer about this specific point and unfortunately that takes years as a small business. If you're starting from scratch with no help and no templates, you're making this up as you go and you're only changing it when you react to the feedback. Yeah, so you're just going to have to grow that muscle more quickly.
Speaker 2:You might actually and oftentimes, when we've received some sort of feedback about something not going right and it might it's not necessarily like a negative feedback. It'd be like, hey, I had a real trouble with this booking. Part of your or your website did this and it didn't go where it was meant to go. They actually save you. You're like oh, I hadn't brought that to my attention, I wouldn't have been able to fix it and therefore, now that it's fixed, my business is better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we, whenever we get a complaint, constructive feedback and a review that's less than for our team, less than five stars, but for us, less than you know, probably three or two stars we will contact them and the first thing we do is say thank you, thank you for bringing this to our attention. We don't know, particularly now that we're not on the ground as much we don't know unless you tell us. So this is the other thing please don't, if you're a program attendee, please don't just ghost if you have a problem, because it won't get fixed for other people. So you know, unless it's something just bitchy, it needs to be constructive feedback, please.
Speaker 2:You don't have to give any airtime to someone who's nasty.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Providing feedback that is unhelpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you still need to maintain healthy boundaries within business. The customer is not always right in the way that they communicate, but if you can get to the seed of what it is that they're actually trying to provide feedback about generally, it's only going to help your business.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. When we get to this point here, the most important question that you need to ask yourself, whether it's at this point or even beforehand, is knowing in your heart of heart what value does my program provide, or my community? Is it physical, Is it community? Is it autonomy for children, is it connection with nature? It doesn't really matter. What matters is that you know in your heart of hearts exactly what value you provide, and then the next step with that is making sure that it is in your marketing, your emails, your socials, your websites. You clearly talk about this wherever you can, because they're intangible things that people will not know unless you say it out loud. And another thing that we often do in addition to that is to sometimes sort of narrate what we're thinking in programs, which is really helpful to people to be able to hear what's actually going on, what you're observing, so that they can see the intangible things as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think people are often looking for a tangible exchange for money. You know, I paid this amount, so I expect this amount of resources or I expect this amount of one-on-one time with a staff member, but so often the benefits in a nature play program are invaluable, you know, and they're missing from many people's day-to-day lives. So this is our quote unquote product. This is our actual value and we need to remind people of that and, exactly like you said, narrating it, what is it your child is learning right now, even though there's no staff member near them? What is your child learning right now, even though they're quote unquote just playing in the mud? These are the things, especially coming from a school centric society, that parents often need educating in, because they don't know what learning looks like outside of a school system.
Speaker 2:And even saying stuff like I'm really worried. If I went over there right now, I would interrupt their play, I would change the dynamic, you know, saying exactly what your interference would cause in a negative way, so that they can see that your role is actually assessing at every moment how much we have to we inject ourselves on the children, because I think a lot of people love the idea of connecting with the facilitators and that is really important, but also knowing that as facilitators and as a philosophy, there is a really fine line between those moments when we're called in and those moments when we're forced ourselves in and the interaction still might look really good and there's nothing overtly negative about it, but there is still an unintended consequence because we forced ourselves on the children. So that can be a part of the narration as well.
Speaker 1:Children don't get many opportunities to get into a deep flow state and I honestly think that is one of the biggest values we provide is the time and space and the educators that understand this, to allow them to get into a deep state of flow. How do you educate parents on that messaging? It's educating in your podcast.
Speaker 2:it's educating on your socials in your reels, yada yada about flow states. Yeah, and it might be. A really good opportunity is after a session, if something like that has come up is to just pop your camera on and talk to the camera and say this is what happened and this is. You know why I did or didn't do something in my program, and this can often be misconstrued, or this can be. This is why it's really important that I talk about this, because you may not know that that's what's happening from my perspective as the professional in this circumstance.
Speaker 1:Another good way to frame things as well is that just ask yourself whether a person, if they didn't pay for your program, would they be getting the benefits and the value that you know are in your program anywhere else in their life right now without attending your program in the amounts that they're getting it. In that you know two or three hour timeframe, and I can tell you that's exactly why Vicky and I started nature play groups and Forest Kindy because we knew, unless we made a commitment every week where we were paying to turn up, it's too easy to go, it's too wet, it's too cold, it's too hot, I can't be bothered, my kid's sick to not do those things. So, in fact, the fact that you're offering a paid service enables people to actually enjoy those benefits where they quite often just won't choose to do them on their own.
Speaker 2:That's right. And then it just got me thinking too about because that negativity is loud. It's loud to us. It's very easy to go down, particularly if you're, like us, the people pleasing route, and we have done this and we have been burned and learned the hard way that if you cater to that person's feedback in the way that they expect and it is outside of your philosophy, other there's other people suffer. So the children who are enjoying themselves, who are having a great time, who all that feedback coming back to you is great because that's not having as much of an impact. You and you want so badly to please someone that you are likely to do things, provide more resources, you know, include more things in your program that you don't believe you actually need but you just want to make this person happy has unintended negative consequences on the rest of your program, the rest of the people, the children in your program. Ultimately they're who you're serving. That's why you're in this and yourself to make someone who isn't necessarily going to stick around and be happy anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we very quickly learned that when we bent over backwards, that A children weren't using them. This is, in particular, I'm thinking of the feedback like, oh, you're not providing enough resources, they weren't using them. So when we provided more for parents, the children very quickly showed us they'd still rather play in the mud or the creek with the trees. And B it was unsustainable for the environment, which is a huge part of our mission as a company. And C those parents. Actually, what they were actually looking for was a very structured quote unquote educational product rather than process type program, and that goes against every one of our educational philosophies. And so they inevitably left anyway, because what they thought they wanted was resources, but what they actually wanted was a school-based structured program, and we were never going to provide that. So all that trouble to people, please, people that weren't our ideal customer anyway, who didn't understand our philosophy and our mission. But that feedback then led us to be very clear about what to expect in our programs, which is free play in nature. That's it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I mean like there's always fine lines and dances between you know, and even responding to the feedback of the children in our programs, like or maybe they are a little bit bored, like they've been coming to us for a while, like how can we extend them, and things like that. Back and forth reflective practice my favorite word, um, that's important and it is. It is not to say that sometimes there isn't some element of truth or we go okay, maybe I do need to do a little bit of that, but just being very careful about one person's feedback as opposed to group dynamic feedback.
Speaker 1:It's very different, too, when a child asks to be extended essentially and a parent is stepping in on behalf of that child what they believe is best for their child, particularly when they're not education trained and also sometimes too, um, if it is just one child, it can be really draining on um personnel resources that one person is constantly trying to entertain and falling into that trap as well. We are not entertainers, Remind yourself. We are not here to entertain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that word has been Ben. I don't know how to entertain them anymore. It's a trap. It's a trap.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, being reflective and just coming up with you know what is the feeling, what, what do they need? And and asking some deeper questions, as opposed to just performative, I would say yes, yes.
Speaker 1:And I think finally I just want to bring up that sometimes genuinely there is absolutely no ill intent and the program just is genuinely not for them and that's okay. And the sooner we come to accept that we can't please everybody and we shouldn't please everyone in business, then the better off our own mental health will be and our income. Because we need to actually be niching down in business and not only in business. We need to be niching down in nature, play business, because people are coming to your program for you and what you offer. So there's no point in actually making your program similar to the next person down the road, Because if they find a program that suits them elsewhere, it's not an attack on you. It's just that they've got different needs that your program doesn't meet and that's okay. And I think maybe that's the hardest thing to accept. But actually if you can accept that really soon and just be really comfortable with what you offer and understand people are going to take it or leave it, the better off you'll be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can be really hard to hear negative things, particularly if you're anything like me. You've been raised to be a good girl or a boy. But, honestly, running a business is going to guarantee that you can't please everyone. So you need to know your program's value and your worth. Cannot emphasize that enough. Market that value, particularly if it's intangible. It needs to be very clear. You need to spell it out for people and they will. You will get the people that want that. They will come to you and then you'll have less of these, hopefully, interactions with that negativity, particularly for those people that turn up the first time and have that feedback.
Speaker 1:And then know again, like we just talked about, that genuinely your program won't be for some people, and that's okay. You can't please everyone. It's not personal, it's actually a good thing. So just be careful not to change to suit one very loud and or hurtful voice. They often won't stay no matter what you change anyway. So stay true to yourself.
Speaker 2:And if you have any questions, please shoot them our way and, as always, we love doing this journey with you, so until next time stay wild.