005 Hillary Blackburn | Titan of Pharmacy

In today’s episode, I sit down with Hillary Blackburn, a Pharmacist in Nashville, TN who has created a career path that goes well beyond what you would think a pharmacist normally does. 

Hillary covers everything from opioids, to how patients can navigate the current state of drug prices, and of course we dive into CBD. We even get into her journey to becoming an author and empowering other women!

Transcript

spk_0:   0:00
Now you see it in gas stations, Whole foods stores help stores, pharmacies. I mean, CBD. You probably see it everywhere.

spk_1:   0:11
Hey, it's Nate Pissarro And welcome to Titans of Image, the podcast where I talked to industry leaders and innovators who are at the top of their game and leading the pack in their fields, uncovering some of the best stories in today's business landscape. In today's episode, I sit down with Hillary Blackburn pharmacist, based in Nashville, Tennessee, who has created a career path that goes well beyond What do you think a normal pharmacist does. Hillary covers everything from opioids to how patients can navigate the current state of drug prices. And, of course, we dive into CVP and its place in the pharmacy world, and we get into her journey of becoming an author and empowering other women. And now let's get to the episode. But before we do, it's important to know that whether you're a small business owner or the face of a multibillion dollar industry, your organization has a great story to tell and content. Titan wants to help you tell it. Wear a digital content creation powerhouse built for the 21st century, providing all in creative strategic production, post production and distribution services for a 360 degree 24 7 world. In our world, titans are passionate, creative doers. They have the experience to take your project from start to finish, minimizing your involvement so you can focus on what matters most running your business. So if you're ready to take your content strategy and production to the next level, our titans are ready to help. Now, here's my conversation with Hillary Blackburn. Well, Hillary, thanks so much for hopping on the podcast with us. Look forward to this conversation, so I just want to start by kind of getting your background. How did you decide you wanted to be a pharmacist?

spk_0:   1:50
Yeah, well, thanks for having me, uh, great to be on this show. And, you know, I always knew that I wanted to go into medicine. Um, you know, from picking like Clara Barton, who was a famous nurse during the Civil War, is, you know, a childhood like kind of book report project and doing things like doing the National Youth Leadership Forum on medicine as a high schooler. Um, I always thought that I was gonna be a doctor. And, um, actually, it was during a scholar's day at the University of Mississippi, Um, that I ran into one of the pharmacy professors and he talked me into doing early entry pharmacy. And so what that is is as a high school senior, they they accept 50 students and, um, you know, talked with my parents and they were like, This

spk_1:   2:51
sounds like

spk_0:   2:52
a great idea. You could do pharmacy and then go on to medical school. And so I really thought that was kind of the direction that I was going to go. But, um, really, after being in pharmacy school and getting Teoh getting exposed to all of the different opportunities within pharmacy, especially during that last year where it's all rotation based and you're rounding in places like in the E. R. Or in the I C. U and and working with interdisciplinary teams, um, I just fell in love with that area. It's a great field for a female. More more females were going into pharmacy on, and so a little bit more flexibility, Um, and but still so many great opportunities within pharmacy. So

spk_1:   3:44
So you finish your schooling you come out was your first job as a pharmacist. What were you doing right off the bat?

spk_0:   3:52
Yes. So, um, actually, during school, I served it an intern at CVS at my in my home town, small town in Mississippi Delta, where I grew up. And so that was great. I was ableto get experience and make some money. Um and so but I kind of knew that that the retail pharmacy setting wasn't exactly where where I wanted to stay, but had some great experience there, even a student. I, uh, had a little bit of a different turn in that I had interned on Capitol Hill, and that was just interning for a Mississippi senator and thought, Wow, how fun is D. C. And but how do I go back for pharmacy? And so, um, pharmacy is a small world, and there was an almost alum that was the director of the Office of Pharmacy Affairs, which is part of her sorry health resource Is and services Administration, part of HHS, and they administer this very big program called the 3 40 B drug program. And it is a government program where any manufacturer that is participating in Medicare has to give discounted drug prices Teoh safety net hospitals. And so, um, got exposed to that more of kind of a program. Aspects definitely always had a passion for underserved communities growing up in a in a rural town on in Mississippi. Ah, lot of impoverished areas and, you know, had that experience but really loved all the clinical things that I was getting to do at the Academic Medical Center in Jackson, Mississippi. And, um yeah, so I did a residency, actually, their residency programs for pharmacists, just like in medicine. And, um, yeah, and right. And right after I wasn't quite sure exactly what I was gonna dio, I thought I was gonna go the hospital pharmacy route. And, um, you know, I was looking at jobs. Um ah, lot of times, many of the ones that are available for new graduates are your work in night shift or, you know, some of the hours just aren't great or your staff pharmacists, and, um, I don't know, none of those kind of really seemed Teoh be that exciting. I also have a pretty social and, um, you know, uh, work life balance is important to me having some weekends and, um, kind of didn't think I wanted to stay in Mississippi and, um, a lot of, ah Ole Miss people and are in Nashville and made the major Nashville work for a family friend at an independent pharmacy. And that's how I got to Nashville. So that was the first job out of school.

spk_1:   7:00
So one of the things that I think is interesting about the pharmacy profession is when I think of pharmacist most of the time. And I think a lot of people think of CVS or Walgreens or your local judge store, and you got to go pick up this prescription. But it's a much bigger world than that. So talk me through the different areas that people can get the jobs. And as a pharmacist outside off yeah, your local drugstore?

spk_0:   7:28
Exactly. Usually that is exactly what people say. I say I'm a pharmacist and, oh, do you work at CVS or Walgreens on? And neither said, Well, I still will do a little main lighting at Walgreens. It's great. Teoh, um, still had kind of keep my feet wet with retail lots of customer service there, but yeah, there are so many different areas of pharmacy practice got hospital, and I mentioned a few different areas of that. Um so, uh, that ambulatory care So pharmacists embedded in physician clinics And that's a really becoming popular as more and more specialty drugs are hitting the market when I mean specialty drugs, those air more of the high cost, high management type of medications for like are a rheumatoid arthritis oncology, Um, those types of disease days. And so having a pharmacist managed the drug because it's, you know, these drugs or thousands and thousands of dollars. So if patients aren't taking them appropriately, um oh, they had a side effect. We get a kind of counsel them through some of those things. Eso That's certainly an area you're seeing more in pharmacogenomics say, looking at, um, you're gene therapy. Um, you know, some people are fast metabolize er's of medicine or slow metabolize er's um, uh, working for the pharmaceutical industry working in for government academia. There's a lot of different areas of practice. Yes,

spk_1:   9:10
So you pretty much at retail institutional government. I mean, any any major industry, it pretty much there would be a pharmacist there. Yeah, and they kind of have their own world to live in. I'm always curious You've been at it for a few years now, but you're not that old. And but I'm sure there's been some transition, some innovations, some changes since you probably came out of school and or where do you see the industry going? What are some of the new trends innovations that you see happening?

spk_0:   9:37
Yes, I would say the biggest thing happening is moving from that dispensing model. Um, so you know, pharmacists doing mostly dispensing to more, utilizing their clinical skill set. Um, and so more of the medication therapy management. Um, you know, do doing more within the doctors office, eso and the doctor is going to be doing all of the diagnosis and things like that. But a lot of times patients were coming in if they've got hypertension or are diabetes or things and they're seeing a pharmacist to manage on titrate those medications s. So I think the you know, that inform attics is definitely a huge field data. You know, every industry you're seeing data having more, more importance. And that's certainly the case in health care is well and so having a clinical informatics pharmacist on your team is huge to be ableto Teoh manage different, um, order sets or predictive analytics of, like, disease states and things. So, um yeah, a lot. A lot of, ah changes happening, certainly in health care and definitely within the pharmacy profession. Seeing a lot in the news lightly about, um, you know what it looks like? Supermarkets are getting out of the dispensing space, so it's not as profitable because you've got pharmacy finished fit managers or PBM that, um, drug prices are are certainly, ah, hot topic right now. And, um, it's very complex process between the manufacturer and getting to the patient. Um, and I think that pharmacists can be part of that solution and helping patients navigate, um, how to make sure they can get access to their medicine. Um, and then that they're taking it appropriately.

spk_1:   11:50
It brings up a good point as well. I want to talk a little bit about GPO's. Maybe the role of telehealth in how that plays into pharmaceuticals and getting those drugs to the patient with this is to your point about farms just working in at the retail level. It's a lot of customer service. There's a lot of things to go into that. But when you look at GPO's and getting, you know, how does it get from the manufacturer to the patient may be skipping over the retail side of things. Theano is on approach. A few others mail order. There's all kinds of ways so talk a little about how do you see that playing out in the industry? And how is that changing

spk_0:   12:29
U. S. O. GPO's air Great purchasing organisations You know health systems use those other groups use those so that they can increase their buying power. Eso they're negotiating with either manufacturers or wholesale distributors to make sure that they're getting the best price. And, um so it is interesting about what that best price is because you sometimes will get rebates. Um or, um, depending on, um, you know, health insurance plan. Um, that's that's often what you see when a patient's going into the reef to the to the retail pharmacy setting is, um, you know what is their co pay? So, um, you know, you've got a copay, Uh, but first you gotta deductible. And that always hits the beginning of the year and so every January, patients air coming in saying

spk_1:   13:33
this isn't how much

spk_0:   13:34
I used to pay for this and said, I've got to hit their deductible first and then they've got a copay, um, that, you know, is kind of an assigned number, and then typically they will And then that kind of shifts, which they've hit that deductible. And then maybe the plan is gonna pay for more. And so all of that kind of changes. And so being knowledgeable about some of that is is helpful. Um, and being able to kind of help me answer questions Teoh patients about, you know, why is my prescription this amount or, um, a lot of times, you know, patients will be started on a new drag, and it required requires a prior authorization from the doctor. And so maybe their insurance plan doesn't have that drug covered, or they've got to do some kind of step therapy, and, um then you're kind of in this triangle between the patients in the middle there at the pharmacy. But the doctor has to give their approval, and then the insurance company then approves it for the pharmacy to the spit, so it's not very transparent. There's not a lot of transparency right now and within the prescription, um, space. And so hopefully that's something that they're going to be addressing in the future. But, yeah, GPO's. There's a lot of big wins. Um, that can certainly help leverage. Good pricing. Um, out there. But, uh, not not all of those solutions are I mean, that we've got, you know, lots of different plans. Whether you know, the government can negotiate for Medicare prices and Medicaid prices. You know, that's been proposed drug importation. Um, there's some concerns about that. Um, there's been a lot of proposals on how to lower drug prices, but it seems that a lot of those have been blocked. And, um, maybe not necessarily every solution has been quite the right fit. There's been a few concerns, so hopefully will be ableto find some kind of solution. Maybe maybe after November when, um, you know everyone. All of the legislators are kind of their seats or saved on bacon can bring that back up. So we'll see.

spk_1:   16:11
It's all incredibly interesting, and I think there's just I mean, like most industries, there's just so many nuances that it's hard to figure it out with one conversation. There's a lot of things to go into it another hot button topic that's going around right now. Of course, there's there's kind of two sides to it. From the way I see it, there's an opioid epidemic, Aziz, they say. And then now there's a CBD revolution. And are those are? Is there any relationship between those and where do you see from pharmacy perspective, pharmacist Personal perspective, You know, What are we doing about this opioid situation? And then what's going on in the CBD world?

spk_0:   16:51
Yeah, so opioid epidemic kind of first. And there's a great Netflix documentary out right now called the Pharmacist Eso. I was able to watch that. I think it just came out kind of early February. So it is a great story, and it describes a independent pharmacist. Our community pharmacists in ST Bernard Parish, Louisiana, which was one of the hot spots they were. That area was one of the top. They wrote some of the most prescriptions for OxyContin. Um and so actually, the drug manufacturer Purdue Pharma had all had all the data like who were the top prescribers in the country and somehow saying There's a doctor that was a pill mill. She's only open in the evenings. You know, at night people would wait outside Really incredible story about how he I lost a son and then started really noticed to drug abuse and then realized that he started taking note of people in his community that were young or healthy. And they started, they were getting prescriptions for OxyContin. And this is back when, um, you know, there was still some uncertainty on the amount of addiction um, that pain meds were causing. And then, of course, now we know that there's a much tighter correlation and says a great story telling about how he was able to start doing some counseling to patients. And then he actually, it was able to kind of help flip this scale on this doctor and help supported the case to be over to kind of take down this pill mill. It was like the second biggest one. There's another doctor out of Portsmouth, Ohio, and there's a different book that I would recommend if people are really interested in the opioid epidemic. Teoh, um to read, um, what is that? But called? Um uh, I'll have to think of it. You have to remember what it is. But now I can't. Can't recall that a really great one. And I'll have Teoh room. I'll have to look it up and get back to you. Um, but yes, I think it's neat to be able Teoh, um, track some of those things. And, you know, there really hasn't been a pharmacist in the media, um, with that kind of much public attention and so it's kind of neat even here within the last week or so, I've seen where the Boston Red Sox are doing a pharmacist Appreciation Night s. I don't know if there's any kind of link there, but it's like, Oh, there's kind of some exciting things happening around the profession which is find so dreamland. That's the book. Yeah,

spk_1:   20:01
we'll take a look because I think it's interesting. I've known some people and told some stories of people who have had opioid addictions and just the way that it can ruin lives. Both end lives as well as lives that are still ongoing, and it's just unfortunate to see that. But obviously there's got to be other ways around.

spk_0:   20:22
Yeah, lots changed. So now there are prescription monitoring programs where, you know, pharmacists are required to check the prescription database and so they can see if you came in and you were going Teoh, your doctor, shopping savior, multiple prescriptions from different doctors. Or we can also see what other pharmacies have you gotten this filled at? And so, um, you know, if you were came in to, you know, my Walgreens pharmacy and you had and I'm in Nashville and you've got a prescription from a doctor in Kentucky, um, pharmacists are allowed to use their good, you know, clinical judgment. Ah, good faith dispensing laws and make decisions on whether they're gonna they think that it's, you know, a legitimate prescription. And there certain things in place. Tennessee has even implemented some major restrictions on controlled substances, were really trying to get away from doctors, writing as many controlled substances out of like the emergency rooms. You don't have his money drug seekers going in because they know that they're not gonna be able to get that they're limiting those prescriptions to three day supplies. If it is longer, they have to have a diagnosis code on the prescription. Um, so you know, Ah, lot of times pharmacists counselling on naloxone. So that's a huge thing to is making the A P. Lloyd reversal Asian available and kind of targeting patients. Like we don't think that you're a drug abuser were your, um, But if you're on a high dose opioid prescription, then they might be eligible for no oxen or a lot of times. Um, you know, it's it's the bison. It's not the person that overdoses that is gonna be administering the naloxone. It is a family member, a friend, law enforcement agent that, um, they've got a curie those around so that they can help reverse that appear oId overdose. On day you mentioned CBD. It's

spk_1:   22:42
not necessarily connected, but I think a lot of people has Sylvia's pain, relief and sometimes chronic pain really things that in some cases people get hooked on opioids, chronic pain. And then now we see people using CBD toe hopefully relieve some of that as well. But from a pharmacy perspective and sort of within the melt medical and health care industry, how is sandy changing things, or is it changing things?

spk_0:   23:08
Yeah, well, so CBD or cannabidiol is part of the cannabis TVA plant and cannabis or marijuana? Aziz, you know, a lot of it's, I guess, more commonly known. Um, so it's actually been around for thousands and thousands of years. I mean, even the Chinese emperors in, like, 2000 BC. There's been documentation that, um, you know, they even use cannabis, and even some of the early American presidents were growing him a za crop. And you can get CBD from him or from the cannabis plant. Um, and so CBD is actually the non psychoactive component. The THC is the that causes more of that euphoric feeling. Um, and so, you know, there are several states, I think, um, you know, definitely over 30 states that have actually approved medical cannabis. Um, about 19 or so have approved recreational laws. So you see that coming from the West and then making its way over to the east, Um, so a lot of different laws. And then, actually, um, the farm bill legalized CBD, so no THC, it's gotta be less than 0.3% CBD That was legalized in December of 2018. And so now you see it in gas stations? Um, whole foods stores help stores. Pharmacies. I mean, CBD. You probably see it everywhere. It's in face. Here it is in, um, there is apparently a rush shrine outside of Nashville that has all CBD infused foods.

spk_1:   25:02
Why, no semi coffee is a big thing there, but he's drinking their CBGB every morning

spk_0:   25:07
coffee. So I will tell you that, um, that, you know, there are a lot of potential benefits from CBD like anti inflammatory, um, or, you know, other protective things. There's a lot of claims about CBD, but there are certainly some concerns with it because it's not regulated. It's not a drug. Um, it's not regulated by the FDA S O. It is kind of the wild, Wild West. You could have people that are growing it in, you know, their basement, and like bottling it up, and you're not quite sure exactly what the percentages are? Um, and so there are some concerns. I mean, I would tell the public that, you know, there's certainly some benefits, you know, I've recommended it to my dad, you know, he has a lot of like joint pain pain. He's a cyclist, but also kind of like a bigger, like, a kind of stout guy. And so, um, yeah, is he's gotten older, like

spk_1:   26:16
you can

spk_0:   26:17
You could try CBD. But it is something that you also have to worry about with, um, with drug. Uh, you know, what is your your workplace have in place about drug policies? Because you could potentially fail a drug test. It actually happened to a lady in Murphysboro, Tennessee, just outside of Nashville. That hit the front page of the Tennessee in Or, you know, one of the news journals that she was a Murphysboro. City employees. And instead of taking anxiety meds, whether it's too expensive or a lot of people you never into trying other therapies, there aren't a lot of negative side effects with CBD. As I mentioned, it doesn't calls some of those euphoric feelings. But depending on how much teach sees possibly in there, you could potentially fail a drug test like she did. And she lost her job because, um, you know, her workplace had in zero tolerance for, um, for drugs. And so it's interesting

spk_1:   27:27
just trying to sleep better at night.

spk_0:   27:28
So sleep is another suppressive benefit of CBD, so I don't know that it is interesting about, you know, like, well, are we gonna have less of the opioids if we you increase medical cannabis? And there have been a few studies that have may be shown that, um, and at least it is another option. I don't think that CBD is completely, um nonaddictive. There could still certainly be some addictive, um, you know, tendencies. Um, so, yeah, I think I think there's there's still a lot to be known about, um CBD, but yeah, a lot of attention on the opioid crisis and epidemic right now. So

spk_1:   28:17
it's interesting to look at it from a business perspective to you've seen these businesses pop up out of nowhere and to your point regulation piece. So, I mean, if I was gonna say I want to go buy a bottle of CBD oil, what would you recommend? What do I look for? Where do I find a reputable source? How can you help guide people in that direction?

spk_0:   28:37
Yeah, well, I would definitely recommend, um, you know, trying to get it from, you know, doctors, office. Oh, our pharmacy. Because, you know, they hopefully have some kind of medical grade. Um, uh, one. And they're gonna be a little bit more regulated. Your are a little bit more. Probably concerned about regulations. And so the CBD can certainly be tested for quality and the batches and things. And so I think, you know, one that has been proven to have good quality, like one of those products that would be in a pharmacy or, you know, I don't know how much I would trust it from a gas station.

spk_1:   29:23
So fair enough, do you think one day that, you know, kind of like these days we could go get Advil from the store. And Advil is the brand name. Get the Kroger brand or the store brand, however long that the generic versus brand name aspect, too. I mean,

spk_0:   29:41
it's all about marketing, you know? Are you gonna go for the high end line? And you've got really pretty, um, packaging and everything? Well, people are probably gonna pay more for that. Um, or, you know, there's probably plenty of products that air like middle of the line. I think you just have to find one that, um you know, what is the quality testing look like on it. Um, And so, Yeah, there's there is a lot of money to be made because people don't know, Like, what is that price point? Um, and so, you know, at least you know, sometimes online you can comparison shop. Um, so, yeah, I I think that, um, you'll you'll start to see, maybe some brands that are, um, you know, kind of recommended. Um, and I will. So we'll see what happens.

spk_1:   30:39
Well, and I want to can protect subject as well with with general pharmaceuticals. Because every time I go the pharmacy, they say generic or brand name. And what's the difference from from farms dispelled the Mr. I mean, do I need the brand name? Is that something I need to pay extra for?

spk_0:   30:58
Well, it depends. So, you know, there are certain medicines that, um, have a very narrow therapeutic index. And that means that, um, you know, like, war friend, You probably It's a blood thinner. Um or, um, people that take medicine for their thyroid. Leave it. The rocks in the brand name is Synthroid. Those have to be within a certain level. And so when you're switching between different products even between different brands. Like maybe this manufacturer makes the white pill in this manufacturer makes ah, blue pill. There can be a little bit of variation within certain product. That's that's a very limited number of those. But, um, yeah, you'll gil notice in your in, and patients should ask for the same thing. Like when they get stabilized, maybe on the generic leave at the rocks in. Then they should stick with that. Um, but the FDA, um, you know, moat, any new product is gonna be a branded product. They're doing the research and developmental and those, but in about 2012 had the patent cliff. So a lot of these, like big loss block Bester drugs like Lipitor and other things went generic. Um, and so to be approved is a generic. They have Teoh prove that they've got same active ingredient. Same for Mako kinetic profile that is going to basically do the same thing. There may be very slight variations, but it has been approved by the FDA that it's essentially the same. Um, so so, yeah. I mean, there's a big difference between Price and I have been a big fan of generics about, you know, 80 or 90% of all medications dispensed or generics right now. Although specialty drugs account for most of the cost, that generics play a huge role, Um, and managing chronic illness. And, you know, about 50% of Americans have had blood pressure and said most of that can be managed with generics. Now, there is some, um some, you know, things. That air kind of happening that is is now percolating on quality. There have been a few books that have just hit, um, wine called bottle of Lies. And that is, um, I a an author did some investigative journaling looking at what the quality in some of these overseas manufacturers looks like because the FDA can go into any plant in the U. S at any time unannounced and make a visit. And so they've got to make sure there are up to par, and they're following all the regulations. Well, it doesn't quite look like that when they go visit a manufacturing plant in India or China or somewhere else. Um and so that has really just been starting Teoh become, uh, something that people are aware of. Ah, And so I think that you know it's not anything to be alarmed at right now, but, um, I think we'll begin to learn more is some of thes things or because I was actually able to interview the author of China Are ex within the last couple weeks. And she, um, was able to look at, um, you know, we all think of, like made in China. You've got toys or you have electron ICS. You don't really think about drug like, where

spk_1:   34:51
is your

spk_0:   34:51
drug made? It's not stamped on your pill or, you know, your over the counter meds. But, um, 80% of the active pharmaceutical ingredient, like what makes a drug a drug and like has the properties are coming from China. And so it's really interesting to see, like something like the Corona virus right now, Um, when something like that hiss one country, and it's a soul producer of the, the whole world's active pharmaceutical ingredient that really impacts the supply chain. And so we're already starting to see the FDA just nails. Within the last week that there's about 150 drugs that could potentially be, um, on shortage. We've already seen drug shortages and things. Um, I think we're going to see that. Probably even more with the current A virus? Um, just because factories are shut down over there, um, they I think just today we're announcing that one unnamed manufacturer alerted then that they were going to be on drugs traditions, like, how hopeful is that if it's an unnamed manufacturer. So I think in the next

spk_1:   36:05
stock min next

spk_0:   36:07
couple weeks, um, you know, pharmacists, they're gonna have to play a huge role in. All right. Well, what are the therapeutic alternatives? So that if patients can't get this drug, what's something that's comparable?

spk_1:   36:21
Well, I hadn't even thought about that. You know, the impact of where your drugs are coming from and how yeah, yeah. I mean, that makes sense. Which is why stock prices are all over the place right now, huh? These companies don't know what to do about it. Yeah, it's It's crazy. Um, so one shift gears a little bit. Talk about some of things you've been doing where your careers headed. I know. We talked a little bit about some of the things you do. You've got your own podcast. You do some consulting for pharmacies. Um, and you know, women in leadership positions, things like that. So talk a little bit about where you're headed and what you kind of see on the forefront of the direction you're going.

spk_0:   36:59
Yeah. So, you know, I've loved all of the clinical experience that I've had, um, you know, early on in my career. But, uh, over the past couple of years, as I've been a dispensary of hope, which is, ah, nonprofit wholesale medication distributor here in Nashville, more of those responsibilities have been more in management administration. And so I actually went back last year and got my MBA. And I thought that would be helpful because, ah, lot of times pharmacists or, you know, people in healthcare don't have a lot of those business skills here and science classes. So, you know, the accounting and finance and things were things that I wanted Teoh, um, get a little more confidence on. And so, um, you there's always a good time to get back to school. Um, going through, you know, different seasons and things that I'm really glad that I was able to do that, did it through my employer had a great. You know, they helped with some tuition. That's always great. And with an actually picture program that's online to be ableto um, it fit best with my schedule. And so I was, you know, night warrior and weekend warrior for going doing that s o That was great. And, um, yeah, I think that, um, that leadership in health care, particularly women and leadership I mentioned you know, more and more women or in pharmacy. And actually, women make the majority of the health care decisions for, you know, most American families. Um, but you've got so many women in the health care workforce, but not as many people in leadership, not as many women in leadership. And so I think that that's something that I like Teoh help kind of shine that light and and encourage women leaders. Hopefully, I can compile some of the female leaders and pharmacy that I've had the pleasure of interviewing over the past 2.5 years, be able to share their stories and hopefully put it into a book thinking of a title, maybe, like women toe watch. And, um so we'll see. But that's something that I've really been interested in. And I think that that yeah, even other companies that are not in healthcare trying to add more women Teoh board of directors and things eso um, yeah, I think that, you know, it's okay to be ambitious and, um, yeah, just showing some great female role models is always helpful.

spk_1:   39:57
So let's go there. Female role models, titans, people that you look up to. Who would you kind of put into that category?

spk_0:   40:04
Yeah, eso So there's certainly been, um, you know, women that have been great leaders in and pharmacy that that I've looked up Teoh, I think, um, saying Julia, how she is now the president for the American Pharmacists Association. She's been great. I think season came trail Leeson domain. But, um, you know, honestly, there have been, you know, I I think there's a lot of other women business people. I think Ivanka Trump does a great job of being professional. I I think a lot of the like TV broadcasters that have, like, kind of made their way, like Gretchen Carlson and Megan Kelly, they've, you know, had to face a lot of adversity. Um, you know, even my mother in law She's a U S. Senator Marsha Blackburn. She has made her way and is a great female leader and has done so many amazing things. Teoh kind of show women in the, you know, policy and Legislature. So Ah, a lot of different. But I've I've also had a lot of great male mentors as well. Eso have have just really been able to get connected with several men who have recently retired, and they have been such great mentors to me over the past couple of years, and I've gotten connected with them through dispensary of hopes, have been so grateful for them and and some of the coaching from them. So

spk_1:   41:56
that's really cool. I think it's it's always fun to toe here peoples who have helped shape their world, their career, their philosophies because, you know, that's really what we're all after, we get connected people and sort of become our own version of ourselves. But see how they did it? How can adapt that into the way we're doing it

spk_0:   42:16
totally. And I mean and you know, honestly, I think it really my appearance were kind of instrumental in, um helping Teoh. You know, a man achiever. And as an only child, they pit all of their effort. And I was able to do, you know, kind of. I was pushed academically for my mom. He's a teacher, Um, and my dad helps coach me and just about every sport. Um, so, you know, excellence has always driven home from that early age. But, um had such a supportive family and really felt like I could achieve anything that I wanted to achieve so they'd always have supported my dreams. And, um, I have done everything that they could to help make that beer reality. So

spk_1:   43:09
recall I want to move into some quick hit question and answers. So I throw a few things out. Give me the first thing comes to mind best or latest book that you've read

spk_0:   43:20
Who best? Her latest book. I'm reading atomic habits right now, actually inaudible

spk_1:   43:27
that counts or listen to. That's the best. So talk. What? What? What's that all about?

spk_0:   43:33
Uh, yeah, so I think, you know, there's been so many. I mean, seven habits for highly effective people was kind of like life changing for me. I think I got it. Is there a resident years ago and didn't think I had time to read that. You know, it was kind of burnout on reading and studying and all of that. Pick that back up and my role Dispensary of hope. And it has been. So I opening. And so I'm always looking for leadership books, um, and things. And so atomic have. It's just kind of helps to reiterate some of the things that, you know, You think you know that he's been able to kind of prove some of these good methods. And so it's just a good kind. A refresher.

spk_1:   44:19
What's a daily routine that you can't skip over

spk_0:   44:23
so daily routine? Um, I I always try to build in some exercise, Um, at least five or six days a week. I've always been active, as I mentioned, um, did lots of sports growing up, So that's really part of my identity. Um, and luckily I have a spouse that that's also, um, a passion and eso It's great that we were able to kind of do that together. Um, yeah. Other than that, I mean, I always have to have breakfast every day, like

spk_1:   45:03
you start your

spk_0:   45:04
day out right and good sleep, you know, making sure you get enough sleep. We, um, don't have little ones running around around quite yet. That, um hopefully all still be ableto have that balance when that happens. So

spk_1:   45:21
what's a piece of advice you've been given or received or something you like to give to other people? Mm.

spk_0:   45:27
Uh, I think it is being being willing to take opportunities. Uh, you know, I I didn't know where I was going for that. Her PSA internship. I just went. And, uh, it's been such a great, unique experience for me to draw from. You know, I think for the rest of my career, you know, the role of dispensary of hope. There was never if, I mean, it was a brand new role. And so it's kind of a leap of faith. Um, like I would nonprofit. What is this? And yes, I think taking opportunities, um, has been something that has always been important. And then, you know, personal development is so important. You know, you've gotto kind of keep keep learning and growing and developing. Um, and they're all thes season's that I think that that's a really important piece too.

spk_1:   46:29
So speaking of personal development. What's a newly formed habit or something you're working on right now that you

spk_0:   46:33
have it? Um, you know, I'm always trying, Teoh, um you know, stay on top of leadership books and blog's and things and staying on top of current trends. Um, I would say that's probably, uh, just tryingto stay current on some of those, um and then yeah, um I mean, I feel very fulfilled in being able Teoh, have the pie talk to your first. This podcast is away. Teoh, um always learned from others and by interviewing and telling their stories, So yeah, they would be kind of ways.

spk_1:   47:21
So we already kind of hit on this. But if you could write a book, what would the title be said? You're working on something like that, but that's kind of something you want to do. You?

spk_0:   47:28
Yeah. I would love to write a book. I think I've always thought about that and wasn't quite sure what that would be. And I think women and leadership and, like, I'm really thinking about, like, women to watch. And I've got a little bit more of a tagline. Um, that Yeah, that's kind of what? I'm what I'm thinking so far. So hopefully that will come to fruition.

spk_1:   47:53
What are some hobbies outside of exercise that you like to get out? And do you Ah, a music lover? Do you go to concerts? Would?

spk_0:   47:59
Yeah, Well, we're in Nashville, which is, um, definitely And Music town. And there's plenty to dio. I would say I'm kind of a foodie. I like Teoh trying new restaurants and things like that. Um, love to travel. That's something that, you know, has been a Nash here. We just got back from a week long trip in Italy. Ah, and got Teoh do all of that. So we love to travel. We love to do triathlons in the summer. Pretty active outdoors. Um, yeah. National is a great place to be. And, um yeah, just doing things with friends. Um, there so many fun activities, So, yeah,

spk_1:   48:45
I gotta ask favorite place in Italy that you went. Did y'all bounce around? A lot of

spk_0:   48:49
we did we? We flew in and out of the line, and it is actually during the winner. Flights are really cheap. Missed Everyone goes in the summer. Eso you know, flights were pretty cheap hotels. We play the points game and so that was great. Ah, travel freely was the website that my husband uses. And so we actually only paid for one hotel the when her cell night the whole time we were there. But you have Venice for a few days. The Dolomites skiing, uh, and stopped and came out, which it's better to go there during the summer. Ah, Still need to see. And then Milan and Malanda. I was very pleasantly surprised with Milan. Everyone kind of says just fashion and shopping. And they certainly have all of that that Yeah, you you don't realize that, like not only is the joy mo that big cathedral bet the Last Supper is there, um less anything's Yeah,

spk_1:   50:00
that's really cool. It's on my short bucket list. I mean, that is one of the first things to get to Italy. So it's exciting to hear. Um, you mentioned food, Your foodie. Are you a healthy eater? Do you indulge every once in a while? What's your what's your kind of favorite foods? And

spk_0:   50:16
yeah, um, it's hard to say, like a set like favorite food. I try Teoh try to do more of the key. I'm not a strict keto eater, but I typically try to not do that many carbs. Um, not but I'm everything in, like, kind of moderation, so I totally have a sweet tooth on dso. You know, like dark chocolate. Um, I gotta have some of that from time to time. Uh, yeah, it's all about balance. And, um, moderation.

spk_1:   50:55
That's awesome. So, Hillary, where can people follow you? Find you here. You What are some ways to get in touch?

spk_0:   51:01
Yeah. So, um, definitely active on lengthen Hillary Blackburn. Um, sometimes on Twitter. Uh, Phil Blackburn. Um, I've got a podcast called Talk to your Pharmacists and my instagram uh, handle is at talk to your pharmacist. So, um yeah, lots of different ways. Um and yeah, happy to answer any pharmacy related questions. So yes. Great toe be ableto chat and talk more with you about the pharmacy profession. Thank you

spk_1:   51:38
so much. I really appreciate your time. This was a great conversation on and best of luck with your book. Let's get that done. I

spk_0:   51:45
got to get that done. I I have high hopes, So that is a 2020 goal. So um, now that more people know, then they'll be looking for it. I'll have to get it done. So yeah. Well, thanks. I enjoyed the conversation, and it was an honor to be a guest. Thank you.

spk_1:   52:06
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