DM Us! We love chatting with our audience, please feel free to do so on Instagram and say what's up!
Want to work with us? Apply here!
Watch on YouTube here.
Summary
In this episode, Joe Gambino is highlighted and shares his experiences and insights. He discusses his favorite shows and music, his mentors, building a brand, being a dad, and managing his own pain. Joe emphasizes the importance of knowing your audience, connecting with people, and understanding your own body. He also talks about the need to give acute injuries time to settle and the importance of managing chronic pain through pain guideliånes and reframing thoughts and behaviors.
Takeaways
DM Us! We love chatting with our audience, please feel free to do so on Instagram and say what's up!
Want to work with us? Apply here!
Watch on YouTube here.
Summary
In this episode, Joe Gambino is highlighted and shares his experiences and insights. He discusses his favorite shows and music, his mentors, building a brand, being a dad, and managing his own pain. Joe emphasizes the importance of knowing your audience, connecting with people, and understanding your own body. He also talks about the need to give acute injuries time to settle and the importance of managing chronic pain through pain guideliånes and reframing thoughts and behaviors.
Takeaways
Joe LaVacca (00:01.266)
Hey again, everyone, and welcome back to the Beyond Pain podcast with myself, Joe Lavaca and Joe Gambino. In today's episode, we sit down with Joe Gambino as he answers a few questions that I have for him, including who was and who is the biggest influence in his professional career. I was pretty surprised by the answer. And also, how has his persistent pain experience
Joe LaVacca (00:30.062)
shaped the way he practices and made him more empathetic. Joe shares lots of great insights and information, both for clinicians and patients alike. So we hope you enjoy this episode and all future episodes of the Beyond Pain podcast. And if you do, please like, subscribe, share all those wonderful things that we are capable of on social media to help the podcast grow. And without further ado, we bring you episode six. Enjoy.
Joe LaVacca (01:45.741)
What's up, brother?
Joe Gambino (01:47.75)
Welcome back in baby.
Joe LaVacca (01:50.864)
Um, last episode was probably my favorite because it highlighted me. So, um, I'm really excited to have everyone listen to it and, um, share their thoughts and I guess I would say, um, cause I failed to say this before, uh, we signed off that if you guys have any questions for me, um, let them rip, you know, you can, like Joe always says, message us on Instagram. Uh, you can also get our emails through our website and it minds up there as well.
Joe Gambino (01:55.136)
Hahaha
Joe LaVacca (02:19.448)
at Strength and Motion PT.com. And Joe always mentions the social channels. We also have a social page for Cups of Joe's PT or the Beyond Pain podcast on Instagram. So if you just always kind of jump onto Instagram, you can always just comment on our posts and ask us questions there too. All right. So we'll be taking a look at that also. But Joe, you did.
Joe LaVacca (02:48.089)
Do something.
Joe Gambino (02:49.691)
I don't know if you did anything, but you put your back.
Joe LaVacca (02:52.615)
Oh, okay. My screen just shut out for a second. But anyway, you asked me a question on the previous podcast about shows that we're watching or should watch. We talked a little bit about a couple of things and figured out through means of deduction and Sherlock Holmes detective strategies that you were referencing four things in the previous show. So I'm going to ask you this. What are you listening to these days? What's in the...
Joe Gambino (03:12.154)
No.
Joe LaVacca (03:21.191)
vinyl record player, what's on your Spotify playlist. Let us know what we're missing out on here.
Joe Gambino (03:27.864)
So let's see here, I'm gonna try to figure this out. I just pulled up Spotify to answer this question for you. So recent, there's only really two ways that Spotify comes on in this house and one is to entertain Olivia or B, I'm working out and then randomly maybe when we're cooking or something like that, we'll pop it on. But it looks like here yesterday, Olivia and I listened to Queen Radio. So we were jamming out to that.
Joe LaVacca (03:54.828)
Nice, very good.
Joe Gambino (03:58.324)
There is a good deal of She's actually been at the country lately So some country music has been playing on here because she'll rock out to that and she's a big tech She's a Swiftie just like you Joe So there's some T Swift on here And then I got from some of my workouts. I got a 311 radio going on here. I had a rap caviar Playing over here
Joe LaVacca (04:10.359)
Oh.
Joe LaVacca (04:13.526)
Bye bye.
Joe LaVacca (04:22.904)
That's what I listened to today for my workout.
Joe Gambino (04:25.408)
Uh-huh some essential alternative. I got the red hot chili peppers That seems to be kind of what has popped up here as of as a recent. So There you go
Joe LaVacca (04:34.279)
All right, good stuff. Good stuff. I was gonna ask you what you listen to versus working out versus you know, when you're just kind of hanging out and cooking. And it seems like rap caviar, Ja Rule Radio is, you know, some of my favorites for working out. Don't sleep on Ja, even though we don't know where he is anymore. And when it comes to cooking and stuff like that kitchen swagger is always a
Joe Gambino (04:53.365)
Yeah.
Joe Gambino (04:58.632)
Oh, kitchen swag. I haven't listened to that. I'm gonna I'll put it on next time I'm in the kitchen.
Joe LaVacca (05:02.995)
That's what I would say is a crowd pleaser. All right, I think Olivia would like that. I think you and Jen would like that. So next time you guys are cooking, pop on Kitchen Swagger and to anybody listening, try to check that out too.
Joe Gambino (05:06.308)
Okay, I see.
Joe Gambino (05:13.096)
Okay, kitchen swagger. All right, I like that, I like that. I would say, yeah, lifting wise, I found myself, Ozzy has been, Ozzy Osbourne has been, No More Tears, that album, I love it, it's probably like top three album for me. I don't know, I could just jive with it every time I'm lifting. What else do I tend to listen to while I'm lifting? Now, rap tends to...
Joe LaVacca (05:30.848)
Wow, look at you.
Joe Gambino (05:41.164)
to find its way in there a good deal of time. It's usually something in and around the nineties, early two thousands for sure. And then some of the heavier stuff usually will find its way in there. I don't really listen to it all that much when I used to, but we'll get some stuff closer to metal that finds its way in there to kind of, get a little bit of that adrenaline pump for some of the lifts. Just depends also if the lady is with me, now that we'll change it too.
Joe LaVacca (06:07.711)
think the logo, right, right. I also think the you mentioned the heavy metal stuff, and it brought me back to your high school picture that you showed me a long time ago. And I think that should actually be the logo for the show, not the cups with the barbell in it. But it is
Joe Gambino (06:17.164)
Yeah.
Joe Gambino (06:21.897)
Oooo
Joe Gambino (06:25.504)
I'm gonna try to pull it up and we'll see if we can get this overlay onto the YouTube video so people can see it. It's epic. I mean, I need my hair to grow back that way.
Joe LaVacca (06:35.296)
I know, I mean, that's what you were like, I go heavy sometimes. I was like, oh, I know where that came from.
Joe Gambino (06:41.469)
I was back to my skateboard days.
Joe LaVacca (06:45.462)
Oh man, all right, so what are we doing today? Joe, take us through, what are we doing today? I think we're highlighting you.
Joe Gambino (06:50.284)
Oh, we are we are highlighting me. So I'm not gonna take well, I'll take it I'll give you I'll give you the full-on intro I know Joe did a partial one where you can reach out to us. I'm just a reminder DM us we love it. I love it for sure I think that's the best place for you to reach out because that's you're gonna get instant feedback from us You can have a whole conversation My handle at Joe Gambino DPT and Lavaca strength emotion underscore PT. I don't forget our YouTube channel. These shows will be live
Joe LaVacca (07:03.585)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Gambino (07:19.4)
Hoping that you'll be able to see my Fabio like locks of hair from back in the day On the channel as well. So YouTube cups of Joe underscore PT There will be an application form as well in the show notes So if you are interested in working with us or want to have a conversation with us, feel free to fill that out Give us some information and then one of us will reach out to you. And if you have a preference, just let us know But yeah, that's it. Welcome back to the show and this is episodes
Joe LaVacca (07:25.157)
We gotta make that happen.
Joe Gambino (07:48.925)
Or five. I don't know if we call that original one zero yet because we haven't officially launched a podcast yet We're just recording episode five or six up into this point. So Joe Take it away. I know you have some questions for me today
Joe LaVacca (07:59.842)
All right.
Joe LaVacca (08:01.647)
Yeah, I think we'll kind of start at the beginning here, Mr. Joe. And I want to know who was or is your biggest influence in your, let's say, professional life. We'll keep it there as a PT and strength coach. And I don't know if that changed for you over time. It could be the same person. So it doesn't have to be a was is. It could just still be is.
Joe LaVacca (08:30.943)
I was kind of thinking about that the other day.
Joe Gambino (08:33.272)
Okay, well I will I'll start here I would probably say that over time I've had two mentors as far as I at least say I have at least two mentors as far as development one of them was very early on Chris Carlson he owns a gym now on online I think you do know him Joe but we worked together at a gym in
Joe LaVacca (08:58.064)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Gambino (09:03.252)
Um for my first job in the industry overall, um, and you know, he was seasoned he shortly after I was hired there He became the head trainer there Um, he quote unquote rooms me right? I mean like he taught me a whole lot about Strength work. He taught me about how to get clients. I mean like everything um, so a lot of the backbone for what i've done from uh from a strength perspective from uh from a fitness perspective started there and then layered on with um
Joe LaVacca (09:14.967)
Thank you.
Joe Gambino (09:30.464)
whatever certifications and education that I've done on top of that from there. The other mentor I have, and this may surprise you Joe, is you. Yes. I mean, my first job out of physical therapy school was a perfect shrine. And I feel like you very well took me under your wing and you and Vikash and even Dan, but I say we probably had the most.
Joe LaVacca (09:40.543)
Oh, this is quite a curveball.
Joe Gambino (09:59.944)
Back and forth with talking through ideas and how we were going about social media and all that stuff, right? So I feel like you know, I feel like that really helped me kind of because I I've talked about this before I think even on when this was the fitness of the Fairways podcast and we may have talked about this in the past But when I first became a physical therapist, it was a hard
Joe Gambino (10:24.788)
Character out of the character trace not the right word, but it was like hard for me to digest Going from what my like identity. That's the word I was looking for was a front coach was personal trainer was the fitness out of things and There was before I became a physical therapist and before a perfect stride there was Even though I went through physical therapy school a distrust with the PT system
Joe Gambino (10:47.736)
Oh, I wasn't in love with the whole prospect of being a physical therapist And I almost took a step back and decided to go back to personal training or strength coach or my own business You know like starting a gym It was perfect stride having this like one-on-one model that kind of really shifted like Oh physical therapy can be a lot more than You know seeing Three four people an hour having to see 20 to 30 people within a day which is very demanding very draining and you can't give yourself to every single person that
Joe Gambino (11:17.004)
in front of you, but when I was a personal trainer, I had somebody for an hour, right? And they were paying me for my time. They were very dedicated. I see them two, three times a week. And then environment was just more fun for me, right? Like I can really connect with the people I was working with. And Perfect Stride kind of brought me back to that. And you guys kind of almost brought a love to the rehab side of things. And now I can, you know, fully embody both aspects of things. And where I...
Joe Gambino (11:42.236)
Love to work now is kind of meeting those two things in the middle. How can I use all my rehab knowledge and how can I use my, you know, strength coach knowledge, my, my personal training knowledge, the fitness side of things and help really get people over that hump and take care of the things that are nagging at them, but also get, you know, get them back into fitness now. So it's not like I need to rehab and then I can go back into fitness. Those, those things can happen side by side and it just depends on where you are on that continuum depends on how much of what we can do for each and
Joe Gambino (12:11.628)
you know, slowly build from there. So there it goes.
Joe LaVacca (12:15.103)
Well, thank you very much, Joe. I really appreciate that. Then I've learned a ton from you as well, which kind of brings me to another question. And as a, let's say personal trainer, like you said, as a physical therapist, I think you've done amazing work at branding yourself, building fitness for the fairways.
Joe LaVacca (12:44.195)
building, you know, par four performance. So if you could think about giving a young PT, and I can say either PT is a personal trainer or physical therapist,
Joe LaVacca (12:57.339)
some business advice, maybe things that you wish you knew a little bit sooner. What do you think those would be to help them either build a brand or identity like you've done such a good job doing?
Joe Gambino (13:10.764)
Hmm. It's funny. I mean, Instagram has changed a whole lot. But I think probably one of the biggest things that I wish I knew early on, and maybe I found that accidentally because the social channel grew, which is like, no, who you're talking to, right? Like, who's your client? Right. For me, it's parents. Right. It's people who play golf, it's people who like to work out.
Joe Gambino (13:39.54)
And they like those things and they're a large subset of people I work with so anyone who's interested in strength training So like my background as a trainer You know love like I just love strength work in general So people who enjoy doing strength work where they play golf or not whether they're parent or not that that's perfectly fine Doesn't have to be the exact three but knowing Exactly who I like to work with
Joe Gambino (14:05.372)
From a social perspective and like getting your message out there to connect with people That's that's huge So I would say that's probably the biggest thing like know exactly who you're trying to talk to Because this way you can invite them in and then have that social components of things and I just say in the beginning You know, I would say the early on in my social days. It was just more about getting content up. We're now more
Joe Gambino (14:32.508)
interested in connecting with my audience via like Messaging them my like I have a new follower. I send them all message. I say hi. How's it going? What's up? And try to get to know a little bit about the people who following it's just a little more fun that way So it's you know, I still try to put out good content educational content same way why this podcast now exists But I also like to connect with people so I would say you know
Joe Gambino (14:58.912)
Those two things alone, I think have made a big impact for my business. It just had made things more, more fun. I know who I want to work with, who, you know, I feel like my, my services can, can help, um, and then connecting with them and just letting conversations happen. And then if someone wants to work with me, then they let me know. I don't, I don't ever like try to sell somebody and, uh, a message or anything like that, just because we having a conversation is just open, fun, gets to know each other. You know, that's why, you know, I, my content is, is going to be more and more so driven.
Joe Gambino (15:28.408)
around parents, around golf, around strength training, because those are the things I love doing. So it makes it easier to connect with people, right? If someone's a golfer or someone has a kid, right? Like it's fun to kind of talk about those things and how, you know, just really connect on those topics. So if someone's up and coming, they're doing content, you know, get out there, be consistent, but then also feel free to connect with the people because that's what I think social media is all about.
Joe LaVacca (15:54.491)
That's a great answer. I think that's something that I've been working on as well, is like my messaging. And interestingly enough, I just had this conversation this morning. And I feel like originally when Strength in Motion was starting on Instagram and social media, I was talking a lot more to clinicians and trying to pivot on that and actually, maybe over the last few years, finding that kind of niche or passion for people in chronic pain.
Joe LaVacca (16:22.459)
and switching hats, right? Because my hat that I loved wearing the most initially, I guess, when I started was being an educator. So how could I reach more clinicians, more clinicians, more clinicians? And then it slowly evolved over time and I had to make some personal decisions that maybe pulled me away from the education space. But now, just speaking directly to the people I'm trying to help and how I can help them and how I can help them solve their problems, I think has really been.
Joe LaVacca (16:48.775)
a big shift in the business for me too. So that's great. As we sort of like maybe push to a different aspect, this will be a little bit more personal because I figured we went a little professional route.
Joe LaVacca (17:05.39)
How has being a dad impacted your views of movement and rehab, if it has at all?
Joe Gambino (17:16.76)
So it hasn't yet impacted my views on what I do. What I would say for sure is that it has.
Joe Gambino (17:29.612)
shed more of a light on how important, making sure I feel good, making sure that I'm strong and making sure that my body is capable. Because now it's not just so much like, I've always liked to be strong, I've always, sports was mainly the thing, for me in the past, where I always wanted to be able to go out and play golf, if I wanna play softball or football or whatever, just go out and do it, pick a basketball, whatever it is. Now,
Joe Gambino (17:58.74)
I just want to be able to make sure that along her journey, right? I'm always able to keep up with her, um, and always make sure I'm one step ahead of her, right? So I want to be the guy who's like 55 years old. And if she wants to go play, you know, ball or volleyball, or, you know, she gets into golf or whatever, like she does from, uh, from these perspectives and just to be able to, to do that stuff with her. And I think that will be a way for us to continue to connect as, as she gets older and where it's, you know, obviously now, I mean, you know, I throw her around and we wrestle and.
Joe LaVacca (18:07.055)
Hehehehehehehehe
Joe Gambino (18:28.54)
like all that fun stuff, right? I wanna be able to make sure that now, right? My body can continue to do that stuff. So there's a lot of that now in it. You know, I mean, my body's always been very, very important to me, but it's now not just for me, right? It's now for my daughter as well. So I think that will change. And I don't know why this reminded me of this, but it didn't really change anything for me, but we were just in Texas to see my dad and a bunch of her family lives in Texas. And they came over while we were there.
Joe Gambino (18:57.672)
And my niece, she set a timer on her phone every hour of the day. It would just go off. And it was called wiggle time. And nobody really knew why she did it. I was like, Georgie, why do you have a timer for wiggle time? And she was like, ah yeah, it's like, you know, my bones feel stiff, so I just wanna move. And I was like, that's pretty awesome. And like, all of us as adults,
Joe LaVacca (19:08.613)
Thank you.
Joe LaVacca (19:21.367)
Wow.
Joe LaVacca (19:24.235)
That is awesome.
Joe Gambino (19:26.752)
can take that as a lesson learned. Like, I mean, this is it. She's young. She's.
Joe Gambino (19:34.94)
I don't even remember exactly how old she is. Seven. My step sister listens to this and I get this wrong, she's gonna be mad at me. But you know, young, right? Like, yeah, edit this out. Yeah. Yeah, but like she has no issues, right? She doesn't have pain, right? But she feels like things feel stiff if she's just not moving. And like, you know, she's at school or whatever and she just wants to get up and move. And.
Joe LaVacca (19:43.831)
We can edit it.
Joe Gambino (20:01.792)
That's like the best lesson all of us can do just get some movement snacks throughout the day. Just, you know, you're just sitting at your desk for hours at a time, set a timer, get up, move, get back down, get back to work, right? And I think we all feel a lot better, build much better movement habits. If we, if we take George's advice.
Joe LaVacca (20:19.199)
I love that. I love that. So it seems like being a dad impacted your prioritization just a little bit or maybe thinking more for the long term rather than short term. And I would say that that's very similar to myself. And I loved what you put it. You know, the reason why I was doing all the things that I do wasn't just for me anymore. It was for someone else. And I think it kind of created this accountability too, where, yeah, I wanted to be around for as long as possible.
Joe LaVacca (20:48.203)
so I can share in all these moments with Avery. And I think the added thing for me is watching Avery get older, maybe this will happen for you too. Was just seeing her solve movement problems kind of really changed the way I was coaching and cueing people in the gym because it was like so many people come in and they're like, well, I don't know how to squat, I don't know how to walk, I don't know how to the hinge, I don't know how to do this. And I'm like, well, Avery does.
Joe LaVacca (21:16.999)
And you did, and no one taught you then. So what makes us think we need to be taught again? So it was really like about setting up environments differently, challenging tasks a little bit differently, which I really think helped shape my lens. So I'm glad that we had some similar experiences there. Do you think that we have time for one more?
Joe Gambino (21:39.048)
I'll go for it. We always got time.
Joe LaVacca (21:41.543)
All right, okay, well, I mean, of course, this is a highlighting episode of you. Why wouldn't we drag it out for as long as possible? I know we had spoke about, maybe this is a little bit of a similar question then from what you had asked me. Your injury history, you've been open about on Instagram with your back pain and how you've worked on it and how you kind of prioritize different things as far as your own care goes.
Joe Gambino (21:44.14)
Hehehe
Joe LaVacca (22:08.523)
So I was wondering, having had really maybe persistent pain yourself, how has that made you become more empathetic to the people that you work with? And has it changed the way that you maybe make decisions for someone in an acute versus maybe persistent or recurrent state?
Joe Gambino (22:34.64)
Sure. So I'll start there. I think what I've learned from myself is that when things initially pop up, because they do, my injury history is, I can get like a scroll out and you know, and like all the injuries I've had, well, we'll fill up a lot of real estate there. But what I've learned with my back, because that's been the most chronic thing is that, you know, initially if it feels a little bit off, I need to leave it alone for a day.
Joe Gambino (23:03.184)
I just need to let it play out and resolve, not necessarily resolve, but just give it 24 hours because what I've learned is like, when I'm on this like weird, I feel something and I try to mess around with it, roll it out, stretch it out. It ends up irritating more than it does, than it helps. So if I just give it a day, let it settle in and then I can kind of get into movement. So I kind of almost utilize that when something's really, really acute, especially if I
Joe Gambino (23:33.076)
I'm not seeing this person face to face when everything I do now is remote. So this is often the case. Let's give it a couple of days and see what happens. Like you can still move, let's use our pain guidelines. Let's pay attention to it. But more often than not, things tend to come down on their own unless this is like a very, very like repetitive thing, right? Like it happens every like weekly or monthly or whatever it is, right? But often, you know, like I can have something pop up
Joe Gambino (24:03.04)
I did a whole bunch of gardening, yard work, put in, I don't know, eat plants in our backyard and my back was sore this morning. And I could have like freaked out, but like two hours later, I don't even notice anything in my back right now. So you know, like it's just really just kind of like understanding your body in a sense. So I try to give that off to people. Like if it's very, very cute, I don't really like to play around with it. Even back in Perfect Tribe when I was doing stuff in person, someone came in super irritated. I'm not doing too much with them because it's too easy to.
Joe Gambino (24:32.84)
irritate the system, you're just trying to do things to calm it down. Um, and then if something's more chronic and things kind of go up, like the pain guidelines that we talked about in the previous episodes where not letting things get over four, not letting things go, you know, linger around for more than 48 hours, that's really the meat and potatoes of like, this is how you understand your symptoms better. This is what it kind of means. So start to understand this so that this way, when it does happen to you, you don't have to freak out about it. You can process it, feel your emotions. Like we talked about last episode. And then.
Joe Gambino (25:02.624)
pay attention to all this stuff and let's see what happens and kind of get back on track and get back onto your journey. We don't need to freak out about it too much. You just feel what you have to feel and we get back on track. So I would say that from that perspective. I mean, just as far as my own pain goes, I mean, it's been up and down and it's been going on for some quite some time, but I say, I won't say, I mean, it's majority.
Joe Gambino (25:29.388)
behind me at this point. It doesn't really bother me. I'll feel things here from time to time, but I haven't had any major flare ups. And I don't know even know how long really it's been a couple of years. So this has been pretty good.
Joe LaVacca (25:39.827)
All right. Well, it sounds like, again, like your experience has helped you maybe manage other people's emotions as well, because, you know, like we talked about, those things are natural. We're not going to be able to fight them. And, you know, a client the other day was talking to me about, you know, her feelings and her thoughts and how it's so hard to move through or accept this idea that, as she put it,
Joe LaVacca (26:09.743)
Just thinking can eliminate my pain or thoughts can eliminate my pain. I was like, hold on. Hold on. That's not Even remotely so I think this is where you know Really reframing the message and repeating it over and over and over again is really important because I told her you cannot Change your feelings right those feelings are usually subconscious They they emerge from your environment from cues from you know, whatever other reason that we want to get into but you can change your reaction to those feelings and that's
Joe Gambino (26:15.071)
Hahaha.
Joe LaVacca (26:38.215)
sort of the purpose, like you said, like, you could have gotten up felt pain in your back and then like, Okay, here it is, shut down. It's ice. Let's just do some breath work. Let's let's cancel my gym session today because I don't want to, you know, do too much too soon. Or you could just simply say, Oh, my back hurts today. I have a reason for that it was because of gardening. Let's see where the next couple hours go. And is there anything I can do right now to maybe change the way that I feel about it?
Joe LaVacca (27:06.227)
And I think that's more important is that we're not trying to, I think, use our experiences or pain education to get you to think that you can just simply, you know, turn off something. It's, oh my goodness. I just did a snap and now there's this sparkles and wow, wow. I mean, I didn't even know it did that anyway. What a, what a pleasant surprise. Um, for those of you, yeah, for those of you not watching on YouTube, I just snapped my hands and I just had fireworks and everything pop up.
Joe Gambino (27:18.812)
Wow, that's gonna be nice on YouTube right there. That's exciting
Joe LaVacca (27:35.131)
I guess it's a gesture. Yeah, I guess it's a gesture I didn't know about. But to come back to that just last point, yeah, we're not trying to get you to think away your pain, to think that your feelings are invalid. But if we can't sort of like control what we feel day to day, we can 100% reframe the thoughts or behaviors to those feelings. And I think Joe, that's what, you know, I kind of got out of what you were saying there. So thank you, brother. I appreciate your input.
Joe Gambino (27:35.393)
Didn't work for me.
Joe Gambino (28:02.717)
Of course.
Joe LaVacca (28:04.839)
It was great getting to ask you some questions. So as you always say, I love you.
Joe Gambino (28:10.612)
And I love you too, Joe. And if you made it to the end of this episode, extra love, baby.
Joe LaVacca (28:11.72)
and
Joe LaVacca (28:14.411)
That's right. That's right until next time we will see you guys on the Beyond Pain podcast. Have a great week