399 | BREAKING: Jaguars Stadium Agreement Reached! Deal Analysis Deep Dive

NFL stadiums in an urban core are major economic drivers for cities, so it's no surprise that we all got excited when new renderings for the Jaguars stadium came out last year.

But we also understood this new stadium was far from being a "done deal."

That's why we're happy to announce that there is a new milestone reached- an official framework for the deal has been announced!

Join us for a special edition of the Not Your Average Investor Show where co-founder of JWB, Gregg Cohen, and show host, Pablo Gonzalez, will break down:

- what the new deal framework looks like
- how it affects the future of for Jacksonville real estate
- why this deal is a particularly good deal for the Jacksonville community
- and more!

This is the biggest public and private investment in Jacksonville history- a literal game changer!

Come be a part of this historic conversation. 

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Transcript

Pablo Gonzalez: 0:00

today. We've got huge news for the city of Jacksonville for Jacksonville real estate investors, for the community members of residents of Jacksonville. And it is that this Jaguar stadium deal has reached a new landmark. They've announced the framework of the deal of it going forward. So a couple things that we had talked about before, but now it's much more official. So we're going to dive into this framework. We're going to talk about how this compares to other stadium deals, why it is or isn't good for the community. And we're Why, as real estate investors, you should care. Welcome everybody to the weekly edition of the not your average best show I'm your host, Pablo Gonzalez. With me, as always, a man that I affectionately like to call GC because of his genius concepts, because he knows how to generate cash flow, because he's a great host, and because his name is Greg Cohen. Say hello, Greg. Hello, everybody. Great to be with you. And great to be with you, too, GC. Also, great to be with our community, who is amazing. Pouring in right now. I know that this is a topic that everybody cares about. So we're going to get an awesome audience. And that's why they're here bright and early for what you see. The roll call baby. We got the ringmaster kicking us off. Drew Barney. We got the early bird checking in. Mr. Dean Kerr. We got the MVP. Mr. Lee Bishop. You may have heard of him. We got Christopher Lee from Fernandina Beach in the house. Lee Offhitter batting fourth today. John Henning. We

Gregg Cohen: 2:29

got

Pablo Gonzalez: 2:30

Big Erne.

Gregg Cohen: 2:30

Big Erne.

Pablo Gonzalez: 2:31

Erne Operley. Good to see you

Gregg Cohen: 2:32

buddy. Good

Pablo Gonzalez: 2:32

to have you Big Erne. We got Big Papa. I love it when he calls me Big Papa. Pops, my man. How are you? We are done. Billy Green. Billy Green saying good morning from the horribly misspelled Moontans of Coot dee do.

Gregg Cohen: 2:47

Nice.

Pablo Gonzalez: 2:47

I like that. I like that, Billy. We got the mama bear in the house. It's Cody Adams. We got the man that everybody knows is back. Noah Rondari. Noah, good to see you, buddy. We don't get to read your name that often these days. We got Nadeem Shah. In the house. Good to have you, Nadeem. Who else we got in here? We got Not your average guest from Washington state. We love so I'm assuming that could be Laura Colby. I'm assuming it could be Pamela Meyers.

Gregg Cohen: 3:11

Could be, but they usually announce their name on this. This might be a other one. Other person in Washington state just

Pablo Gonzalez: 3:17

clicked in from their phone and they don't realize who announced their name. So if you're clicking in from the phone reminder, you're here as not your average guest. So let me know who you are so I can call you out.

Gregg Cohen: 3:25

Let's be honest. Let's put this to bed. You know, let's understand is it, is it Laura? Is it Pam? Or is it somebody new? I really want to know if you wouldn't mind putting your name in the chat.

Pablo Gonzalez: 3:35

We got our regulars checking in from Marietta, California, Gary and Rosalyn Riley. We regard you who else we got in here. We got. We got Sir Jeffrey Bowles. Sir Jeffrey Bowles. Sir Jeffrey from California. Ah, who else we got in here checking in? Alright, I see a lot of people. Oh, it's Laura. It was Laura. I was right. You owe me five bucks. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, alright. We got Mark Norman checking in. Mark, good to have you back as well. We got Jeffrey Blunt, JB from Jack's Present and Accounted for. All right, Jeffrey. All right, JB. JB in the house. I think this is a new name. Hey, Jeffrey. Great to see you. JB, welcome to the show, buddy. All right. Yep. Lauren Colby. We got it. David Blattner checking in from Massachusetts. Dave B. Good to have you, David. We got the first family. Ken and Carolyn Malin, Patriarch and Matriarch, who salute you. We got El Gran Amigo. Bill Shields. Bill Shields. De Duval. Buenas tardes desde Duval. Good to have you, Bill Shields. We got Donna Sheik in the house. All right, Donna. Donna's back. Previous guest of the show. Yeah, previous guest of the show. All right, buddy, let's kick this off. So I'm just going to share this article here that they announced that this framework for this deal has happened. I'll share it in the chat in a second, but you know, essentially what it is saying is that the city of Jacksonville is planning to spend 775 million to help turn Everbank Stadium into the stadium of the future. The total cost of the project is 1. 4 billion with the city paying 55 percent and the Jaguars paying 45 percent Jaguars will also cover any extra costs. If the project goeth over, you ever have a construction project? The construction is going to take about four years and the new stadium should be ready by 2022. 28. One really exciting part of the deal is a 300 million fund to help the community. And this money will be split between the city and the Jaguars. will support community development, affordable housing, and homelessness programs, especially in the east neighborhood there of in downtown. And it will also fund park projects like riverfront Plaza shit and shipyards, West park West park. Correct. The new stadium design will include a shade cover to protect fans from the sun and rain, a mirrored facade, wider walkways with views of the river and downtown sounds really nice. And many new features like a hundred. 90 more places to buy food and drinks and 12 new little boy and little girl's rooms. There we go. The rest of the 12 new restrooms and 60 new escalators. GC, what do you think about those escalators? So much fun. All the way to the top, baby. All the way to the top. Just like the Jaguars. These upgrades are expected to bring in 20 Sykes billion dollars into the local economy over the next 30 years. The deal also includes a promise that the Jaguars will stay in Jacksonville for For the next 30 years, the team will also take over daily stadium operations and most game day expenses. That's kind of a big one. While the city will handle police and fire protection to pay for this project, the city plans to extend the better Jacksonville plan sales tax until 2030, which should save taxpayers 1. 5 billion in debt payments. Even though some people have criticized the plan, Mayor Donna Deegan believes it is a smart and legal way to fund the stadium, which we will give our take on as well. City Council will review and vote this deal by June 25th and there will be several community meetings to get public input. In short, this deal, huge investment in Jacksonville's future, biggest private and public spend in Jacksonville's history, keeping the Jaguars in town and helping the community. GC, what's your take on this bud?

Gregg Cohen: 7:11

I love it. I love it. I love it from the city's perspective. Thank you, sir. I

Pablo Gonzalez: 7:16

love this. Thank you, sir. You're welcome.

Gregg Cohen: 7:17

Now I feel at home.

Pablo Gonzalez: 7:18

Now

Gregg Cohen: 7:19

we started. I love it. We have been following the stadium deal for, geez, well over a year now. Yeah. We were lucky enough to have Mark Lamping, who is the president of the Jaguars here in studio, talking about the Jags and potentially talking about the stadium renovation deal at that time, although he couldn't share a lot. As it was early on in the proceedings, but you know, we've been talking a lot about it on the show because I think in terms of things that is going to improve quality of life here in Jacksonville, things that are going to increase median incomes here in Jacksonville, make us a talent destination, make us a tourist destination here in Jacksonville. Because when that happens of course the community benefits, but if I put my real estate investor hat on what happens then. Is the same thing that you're happening, you're see happening in Tampa, the same thing you see happening in Nashville, the same thing you see happening in other revitalized downtowns, a rising tide lifts all boats and rents continue to rise and home prices continue to rise and incomes rise and those, the rents and the home prices can support it. So we truly can all win as a community and then we can win as a community. As investors so there's a lot to break down in this deal. But we can look at it notes. That's right. There we go.

Pablo Gonzalez: 8:36

It's printed two sides. There we go. For my environmental sensibilities.

Gregg Cohen: 8:38

But there's, and there's we can look at it from all sides, right? I'm a taxpayer here. We're going to look at it from the taxpayer perspective. We're going to look at it from, you know, the economic output perspective. But You know, I've been excited about putting this deal together for a long time. We have been excited about it here at JWB and the numbers that have shaken out are better than what we expected.

Pablo Gonzalez: 9:00

Yeah. Cool. Listen, man, as the storyteller, emotional guy here on the show, I can tell you that having moved to Jacksonville, it feels like Jaguars are culture here. Right. So when I think in general, Americans and sport sports and culture kind of, kind of overlap, right? So like our arts is our sports. It's the thing that we gather around. The thing that brings us together in Jacksonville in particular, I do believe the Jaguars are a huge, huge part of the narrative. So much so that me as a miserable Dolphins fan have felt that I need to become a Jags fan to fully embrace the city. I can't just be half stepping out here. Right. So. The idea that a secondary tertiary market like Jacksonville gets to lock in their NFL team, the biggest, most valuable sports in America, right? That is a event based sport that brings people together that does all this thing, I think it's really good. The idea that it is In downtown, I think is another really, really big one because we're going to talk about that some more. Right. But like being able to like activated downtown, being able to have a stadium with like waterfront views, you know, like that is something that like you see on TV. It looks great. It attracts people to the city. It raises the level of perception for the city and its residents as well. And then last but not least, This idea that it's encased in this like sports and entertainment district that is going to happen. I've seen that work in Arlington in the middle of nowhere. I've seen it work in, you know, like in, in, in other cities where like you're activating this area to me means economic driver. And then last but not least, billionaire owner with a famous name that does other things inside the city to me is really, really cool. But I want to hear from you from the, from the deal wise. You're a, you're a, You're a dealmaker. You see, you're a guy that knows how to negotiate. Um, what do you think of this deal in general, as far as like, how did the city do?

Gregg Cohen: 10:49

Well, so, I mean, the numbers are staggering and, you know, nobody can really comprehend when you're talking about billions of dollars, right? I, you know, Did the research on SoFi Stadium and I was even shocked SoFi Stadium out in California cost 5. 5 billion dollars to put together. So, I mean, the sheer numbers that we're talking about here are hard to conceptualize but what we can do is we can look for market comparables and that's where I really think we can, you know, understand is this a good deal for the city? Is this a good deal for the Jaguars? You know, because we have all Listen, as a, as a city, Jacksonville is on the lower end of the market scale, right? We don't have the resources that LA or New York has to pull revenue from this investment. And ultimately what this means is that we have to work harder to keep a team here. And nothing is more evident about that, that when a lease starts to come up or a stadium needs renovations and. You know, NFL owners know they have the most desirable product probably in the land, and they can go and shop their wares and get a whole lot more money at other suitors because there's only 32 NFL franchises with no plans to expand at the moment. So, the ownership truly is in a position of strength there. But, you know, when you have a special owner like we do here with Shad kh and with Mark Lambings leadership, he's the president and the Jaguar's here. What you're starting to see is that there are other market comparables out there, other stadium deals that have been reached just in the last couple of years that were more expensive to taxpayers. Then what we're seeing here in Jacksonville and you start to ask yourself the question, why, why would an NFL owner pay more of his own money to put, to keep his team here for a smaller market? And this is where the, I just think. The plan that has come to fruition and Shad's plan since buying the Jacksonville Jaguars is so brilliant. I didn't really understand. I don't think anybody in Jacksonville really understood it, but he doesn't look at this as an NFL franchise that singularly needs to make a return on investment from that franchise. If you understand why the Jags play in London every single year, he was able to negotiate that agreement. He also owns a soccer team in London and he's about placemaking. He's about city building and it starts with downtown. So if you start to think about it from that perspective where he sees a much bigger return, it is the best return on his investment because of the scale and the canvas that we have here in Jacksonville. And that's what I try to relate to a lot of our investors as well, right? We have a unique opportunity in Jacksonville where we each can have a part of Jacksonville through a rental property or our real estate investments. But because we are here, this blank canvas, we have this beautiful weather. We have people moving to Jacksonville all the time. This can be a much bigger return on investment. when we attach ourselves to a growing city that has things that other cities don't have to share. And so I'm excited that Shad thinks that way through his actions, he thinks that way. And by doing that and expanding the scope of what this investment is for them and what the returns can be for them, this is what Mark shared with us here. You remember he said, listen, we're going to have the opportunity to less city dollars when it comes to taxpayer incentives, simply because we are interested in developing downtown. We are interested in developing neighborhoods surrounding the city. And and so that's what you'll see in some of the numbers that we'll, we'll share with you here today.

Pablo Gonzalez: 14:21

I remember Mark saying that, and I also remember Mark not finding me very funny at all. Um, but, but yeah, it's, it's come true, right? Like this, this idea of how much, how much the city itself has to offer for a, let's face it, So, owning a sports franchise is a very attractive business from like a valuation standpoint, from a cash flow standpoint, but it's also a very complicated, high upside real estate play. Yeah. It is a big part of owning a sports franchise. It's the real estate piece. It can be.

Gregg Cohen: 14:52

That's, I mean, that's what these owners are starting to see now. It wasn't always that way. Okay. At one point, I mean, Jerry Jones kind of like, I think paved the way here, right? I guess so, yeah. Created that with Jerry's world and the economic development around that. And you're starting to see In Dallas. In Dallas. Yeah, in Arlington. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's truly like, if you build it, they will come mentality, right? Absolutely, man. I don't know. Have you ever been over there? I haven't been there, but I It's

Pablo Gonzalez: 15:16

exactly this, right? Like, it's a, it's a, you know, it's a stadium. And a baseball stadium. It's kind of like what we have going on right now with like the jumbo shrimp stadium and the ice hockey arena. And in between it is a whole bunch of like, it's sports bars and food halls. And like, it's all activated around this, like event activation kind of thing. Right? Well, but, but if you think about

Gregg Cohen: 15:37

it, They couldn't build that in downtown Dallas because downtown Dallas is completely built out. So when I'm talking about what Schott is excited about, and what hopefully you all are excited about, what I'm excited about when I invest in Jacksonville, is that we have the opportunity to create that place, right? Create that place making effect that neighborhood development that downtown development effect. Yeah, because there's so much vacant land in downtown Jacksonville right now. I bet if Jerry could have built Jerry's world in downtown Jackson, in downtown Dallas, he would have done it. So

Pablo Gonzalez: 16:09

yeah, he couldn't build it in downtown Dallas. You couldn't build it in downtown Fort Worth either. That's why he had to pick like Arlington and make that happen. I know in Miami, like our stadium is like, far out of downtown, right? Like it's kind of like on the, it's exactly on the county line between like Fort Lauderdale and West Palm and whatever. And it doesn't really activate other areas around there. Right. It's just like in the middle of nowhere.

Gregg Cohen: 16:28

So now if you get into the brilliance of shot con thinking this thinking a decade ahead when he purchased the Jags, I'm pontificating here. I don't know shot personally, but I'm assuming he saw this blank canvas.

Pablo Gonzalez: 16:41

It's got to come into

Gregg Cohen: 16:41

the show, right? He's, you know, we'll, you know, we'll see if we can fit him in. For Sean. Of course. Of course, Sean would always have a seat here. But so you start to think about what a powerful opportunity it is from that return on investment perspective. NFL owners don't have that ability to do what Jerry's doing out there in a downtown. And if you could, It will amplify the effects of the return on investment. And I'm, I'm assuming that's what he's seeing because he's really given the city a pretty good deal here.

Pablo Gonzalez: 17:09

Cool. Yeah. So we tease this, right? Like this idea that it is a pretty good deal. What do you mean by that?

Gregg Cohen: 17:13

Well, so let's break down the numbers here. So, this is a 1. 4 billion. total cost to build the stadium of the future here. And the way that breaks down is that 55 45 split is what you referenced there. So that's 775 million being paid by taxpayers, by the city here in Jacksonville, and 625 million paid by the Jags. You can kind of look at this a little bit different. You can call it a 55 45 deal or you can call it a 50 50 deal. And the way that it's also being presented is that there were 150 million of maintenance and costs that were necessary, regardless of what we did here, that the city, which owns the stadium, was going to have to do regardless. And so, depending on your take, it's either a 55 45 deal, or it's A 50 50 deal with the city just simply doing what they needed to do to maintain it, which is that additional 150 million. But no matter which way you shake it, I think what's really cool is to compare this deal to some of the other deals that have just recently had.

Pablo Gonzalez: 18:16

Let's do it, man. I got this graphic over here of a couple of other deals, but I know you got deeper numbers, right? Yeah. You look at just, just comparing deals from 1995, Jacksonville to 2028, Jacksonville,

Gregg Cohen: 18:25

we're doing

Pablo Gonzalez: 18:26

great. In 95, it was a hundred percent public financing. And then you see, as you know, as this has aged, these other comparable markets that are also the secondary tertiary markets that aren't the big city markets, they've started to get more and more private financing into the deal until So, you know, we're, we're obviously doing really well here, even at 55%, we're still beating the Tennessee deal and the Buffalo deal and the New Orleans deal and Kansas city deal.

Gregg Cohen: 18:49

Right. That is, that is pretty cool. That's pretty cool to say. But I know you got

Pablo Gonzalez: 18:52

deeper numbers. Well, yeah.

Gregg Cohen: 18:53

So let's talk about, cause I think the buff it, I think comparing it to markets that are similar to Jacksonville is really important here. Right. We shouldn't compare the stadium deal to the deal out in. LA for SoFi Stadium, because again, if you're looking at it from a return on investment perspective, the opportunity for, is it Cronky who owns, owns everything out in LA, owns the, the Rams and the Chargers and whatnot. And his opportunity to earn a return on that investment is so much greater being out there than Jacksonville. And so ultimately he doesn't have to ask for as much city incentives because he's going to earn that back. hand over fist compared to what he could earn by owning an NFL team here in Jacksonville. So I think what the data points to compare would be other markets that are similar to Jacksonville, small market teams. And we have a really great comp, a comparable here when we look at the Buffalo Bills stadium deal. So this was approved in May of 2023. It's also a, it was approved at 1. 4 billion stadium deal and taxpayers paid 850 million. and state and local funding for that and 550 million from the bulls. So like you see on this graphic here, or like we were looking at before, that represents a 61 39 deal, meaning taxpayers for the brunt 61 percent of the deal. And then you can compare that with the Jags deal, right? 55 45 or 50 50, whichever way you want to look at it. So we're getting a better deal. We're putting a smaller percentage than the Buffalo Bills did, which is a very good comp for a small market team up there in Buffalo. Something that's interesting is that the cost has already gone up from 1. 4 billion to 1. 54 billion just for the overruns. And the bills are responsible for the overruns for that deal. In this deal that we're doing, hopefully with the Jags and, and the city here, the Jags would be responsible for those overruns as well. Yep. Pretty much just bank on those overruns happening. But I think this is also really interesting. It's not just the deal itself. It's not just the percentage of taxpayer payments coming. This community benefits agreement is something I'd like to spend some time. Let's

Pablo Gonzalez: 21:03

talk about the community benefits agreement.

Gregg Cohen: 21:05

Yeah. Yeah. So, well, I'll, I'll throw out the number here before we kind of go into it. You know

Pablo Gonzalez: 21:09

what, before we go into the community benefit agreements, I think we've got some foundational questions here that I think are really interesting. Somebody Somebody checked in as not your average guest. So I'm assuming you clicked in from from your phone from the text reminder. So I'm not sure who's asking this, but it bears asking, is the business that needs cash investment from the city to keep afloat really worth or valuable? You know, when I read that question, I think It's not that it needs the investment from the city to be afloat and be valuable. It's that it's so valuable that the other examples are essentially saying, Hey, city, you need me more than I need you. And that's why they're able to do this. These like billionaire sports team owners are people that are are shrewd businessmen, right? Like they do not become a billionaire by accident, right? So they know what the value exchange is, right? So they realize that in some situations they're just able to get their way and make it even more valuable for themselves is the way that I would reframe that question.

Gregg Cohen: 22:04

Yeah. I think, you know, we have to, we have to look at this from a win win for all parties. And if you were somebody that had Some asset right here and 10 other cities across the country, probably a hundred other cities across the country would say, Hey, listen, if you come over here, I'm going to pay you a tremendous amount more to come there. And then if you took your asset and went over to that city. And you looked at the population and you looked at the demographics of that area and you looked at the TV deals that you would be able to get and all that, you would also realize that you could probably double the amount of recurring revenue that you would earn simply by by going to that city. So it's really not about what is the price today. It's what is their earning potential and you're right. This isn't something where, you know, we are giving hundreds of millions of dollars to somebody who's already a billionaire, right? You can look at it from that perspective, but if you look at it from that perspective, we will never grow. As a city, right? This is the same argument as to why we need to give developers incentives to start some of the development in downtown Jacksonville, which by doing that, those developers are okay. Financially, JWB is 1 of those developers and we've received city incentive dollars for doing that. But I can tell you that if we had not received city incentive dollars, those buildings downtown would still be vacant. We would not have renovated those buildings. It's just simply not financially viable. So there's a little bit of a similarity there, but we need to expand our thinking beyond the common first thing that comes to everybody's mind is why do I need to give hundreds of millions of dollars to a billionaire? Think about it from the perspective of. When you have a billionaire investing hundreds of millions of dollars and billions over the course of all of his investments in downtown Jacksonville, what can that do for our community? How much can that raise median incomes? And the reality is there's no better way to kind of jumpstart and kick downtown renovations and revitalization into high gear. Then somebody, somebody like ShotKon and an entity like the Jacksonville Jaguars leading the charge and firing up this this downtown renovation. So when that happens, median incomes rise. When median incomes rise, more people have more money to spend more on more things, right? We have, they buy more things and we have more tax dollars that are raised. We then can pay teachers. We then can pay police, we can pay firefighters, we can do more to repair our roads and our infrastructure. So we have to think from that perspective, and when you start to think from that perspective, and you start to compare what Jacksonville can become and how your quality of life can improve from a deal like this, it starts to make a little bit more sense. And then to add on to it to compare to other cities who have thought that way and struck a deal and to find out that our deal costs less city dollars. That's where I start to really get excited.

Pablo Gonzalez: 25:09

Correct. I mean, at supply and demand, there's 32 NFL franchises. They are proven to be economic drivers for cities and in many, many different ways. And there is at least 50 or 60 cities that would kill to have one, right? So you got to be able to cut a deal. So speaking of the good stuff, 300 million community incentive package, right?

Gregg Cohen: 26:09

Yeah. So what is a community benefits agreement really mean? I didn't know what it meant before I started to do some research on it. But it's something that I think is just right in line with what I know. The Jags are about. They are about redeveloping neighborhoods. They're about solving some of our biggest problems when it comes to our community. community here in Jacksonville and society overall. And you know, prior to the way that this deal actually seems to be put together from the framework that has been released, the Jags were already planning on doing something to help revitalize the neighborhoods that are right around downtown Jacksonville. If you remember from our previous show, we talked about how it was a$2 billion deal that the Jags were proposing for the stadium renovation, and that$2 billion was still a$1.4 billion stadium renovation, and the remaining amount was to, was in a development agreement for the Jags to redevelop the neighborhoods that are surrounding it. What actually happened is, you know, in order to do that you have to, it's a lengthy process of getting RFPs, requests for proposals, inviting other developers to be able to Mm-hmm. You know, have an opportunity to take part in that as well. And so the city and the Jags, it sounds like just decided, Hey, listen, let's streamline this thing. Let's take out that development agreement out of the stadium package. Let's focus on the most important things, which are getting the stadium deal done. And as a way to make sure that they made that continued investment in the neighborhood, they came up with this community benefits agreement. And as I started to think about other franchises that have received stadiums, it's become something that I've seen a few times now. Like, for example, I know in the Buffalo deal, they did a community benefits agreement. So what does this mean? Well, in the, in the Jags deal, The city is going to contribute 150 million and the Jags are going to contribute 150 million. And for the Jags, it's 150 million, which is over the 30 year lease. So that's three, excuse me, that's a 5 million a year is what the Jags will contribute. And half of this money goes into developing the East side neighborhood, which is an underdeveloped neighborhood. It's a place where JWB invests. There are some clients that own turnkey rental properties in the East side neighborhood, but it's a neighborhood that could use some love as far as you know, Infrastructure and resources, so half of this

Pablo Gonzalez: 28:23

is the Eastside neighborhood with a container apartments are

Gregg Cohen: 28:26

no container apartments are downtown.

Pablo Gonzalez: 28:28

Okay. Okay.

Gregg Cohen: 28:29

So the Eastside neighborhood would be just north of the stadium.

Pablo Gonzalez: 28:31

Okay.

Gregg Cohen: 28:32

You want to go ahead and do it right now. There you go.

Pablo Gonzalez: 28:36

You're googling

Gregg Cohen: 28:37

inside. Anyways, so that neighborhood is a huge focus for Jacksonville and for the Jags. and has an opportunity to really revitalize. So half of the money for this community benefits agreement, call it 150 million when it's all said and done, is specifically focused on that area. And that's improving workforce development, that's improving affordable housing, that is reducing homelessness. So half of the money is going there. And then the other half of the money is going to solve those problems countywide. And so again, half the money's coming from the city, half the money's coming from the Jags. Overall, half of the money is going specifically for the Eastside neighborhood and half of the money will be spent to improve those programs across the county.

Pablo Gonzalez: 29:22

So as, as you say that, and you're talking about how like both parties are going to end up committing this money to it. It reminds me of like what we were just talking about, right? Like if you can, if you can take advantage of the fact that there is a billionaire that is willing to develop a city, then you can start saying it's not, you know, it's no different than like, a charity that is saying like, we have a matching donor thing, right? Like if you can get If you can get shot to say, Hey, I'm going to pitch in 150 million. Now the city can say, all right, cool. If you pitch in 150, we're going to pitch in 150. So we can commit to these neighborhoods around the city, commit to these improvements that we've probably for a long time wanted to do, but we didn't have like the excuse to do it or the funding to do it or whatever, and invest in these things, that's going to make the community do better. That's going to make downtown what it needs to be, that it's going to, you know, be as flexible as the city. By being able to address these core needs.

Gregg Cohen: 30:20

Yeah, 100%. I mean, this has been part of Mayor Deegan's mission, right? We've already seen her set aside. Yeah, it was 2 million that she set aside specifically for affordable housing. That was just a city program on top of the the overall incentive. So she cares a lot about affordable housing. We're taking steps to reduce homelessness for sure. Improving the facilities that we have here to house the homeless and to help there. So those things have already been going on and we care a lot about our public parks. And so this community development agreement, if you start to think about. Having a stadium in the future. I think about how when I watch games at SoFi Stadium, they take a span of the beautiful stadium out there, and they show everything around it. And that's what I think of LA. Yeah. Yeah. Right. A hundred percent. And that's what people will think about Jacksonville.

Pablo Gonzalez: 31:08

Or, or when you saw like Candlestick Park and you see like in the bay and Barry Bonds did a home run and people are taking a kayak to it to like, go grab the ball. You know, like this like quality of life stuff, like to me, that's the thing that makes me the most excited. Right. It's like this, like these like aerial shots of a beautiful stadium. That is in our downtown that shows the beauty of the city, right? Like we have all this amazing waterfront property. That's not even called the beach

Gregg Cohen: 31:32

and an NFL game is basically a commercial for people to move and to come and see a

Pablo Gonzalez: 31:38

tour and pilgrimage Jackson. Yeah,

Gregg Cohen: 31:40

correct. So to kind of wrap it up with this community development, excuse me, a community benefits agreement. about 50 million is going to restore and improve those parks that are along the waterfront, which is right next to the stadium. So these investments make a lot of sense. There's a real return on that investment. You know, from that community benefits agreement, just on some of the infrastructure that will allow us to put our best foot forward in our three and a half hour long commercial, which is really what an NFL game is from a city growing perspective.

Pablo Gonzalez: 32:12

That is. You know, I think that's an under under rated thing, the PR that Jacksonville gets by being in the new cycle for a new stadium. And then the PR that it'll get for NFL games being hosted there and showing off a beautiful place that we are. And, you know, and, and, and like these improvements going to it, right? Like, it's, it's almost like this investment alone is just a giant investment. PR campaign, advertising campaign for a city that is been flying under the radar for a really, really long time. A couple of savvy people know about it, right? Like people have been moving here recently. People have been investing in here for a long time and doing really, really well. But it reminds me of, you know, how you guys did the container apartments in downtown. The container apartments, not comparable because that real estate deal, a little bit different, right? It cost you way more than you thought, you know, whatever, right? Like it's a, it's an Airbnb and you're testing with Airbnb and you're not finding that like the juice is worth the squeeze as much when it comes to managing Airbnbs as opposed to long term rentals. But the amount of PR that Jacksonville got That JWB got the amount of inbound attention that we got on the show because the container apartments were going on was something that ended up lifting all boats as far as the city goes. And as far as JWB goes, this stadium deal by itself, right? Like not withstanding everything else that is also good. Also serves to bolster what the public thinks of Jacksville, which I believe is good for us that own properties in Jackson.

Gregg Cohen: 33:49

100%. If you're a business owner now and you see that the Jags are going to be here for 30 years, you might make that decision to go and expand your services. You might take up space downtown because you now know that Stadium is going to look like this. You know, when it's going to look like this, you know, now that there's 300 million going into developing the area right around there. And we're also talking about a sports entertainment district, which is not a part of this deal, but everybody has acknowledged that that is going to be the next focus as soon as we get this thing papered and moving forward. So of course, that PR, that press, that general acknowledgement that this is happening, it's pays itself back in so many ways beyond you know, just the dollars and cents. I wonder how that 26 billion in economic development that they've quoted in their study. I, I, I didn't look at the study. I have no idea how that is, but I don't know how you quantify that right there. Do you, how can you quantify that PR there? I don't know, but I know that it affects people. Yeah, and people make decisions based on it.

Pablo Gonzalez: 34:53

I, you know, I'm a big, I was an economics major. I'm a big fan of economic studies and all this stuff. I also know that economic economists don't value advertising value brands like I do. So I would probably put a, put a couple more chips on there than, than they do on their report. So do you see that is. I remember the last time that we broke this story. We're not even talking about the major, major investment that isn't the sports entertainment district. That is the stockyards and this like giant development that shot the shipyards that shot is doing right next to it. You want to kind of remind us of that along with it,

Gregg Cohen: 35:30

by the way, not even related to this in a sense, totally separate deal. We have a brand new Marina and four seasons hotel. Which is currently going vertical in downtown Jacksonville right now, of course, it's right next to where the stadium is. You can see how savvy of a businessman shod and Mark Lamping and the entire team of the Jags are right. They have a brilliant plan. But this is brilliant for downtown Jacksonville as well, because of course the city kicked in some incentive dollars to bring the four seasons and the marina and the complex. to the riverfront here in downtown Jacksonville. But Shad put in over 300 million of his own money. To make this happen. So you see the level up that the Jags are playing at, and it's a beautiful thing because I love when, when wins, right? I love triple wins, right? And here you have a triple win, right? You have the Jags winning, you have our community winning Man, I think there's more than three wins. I could talk about the city winning compared to other cities, right? I could talk about our mayor winning because this is going to be a wonderful thing for her administration to see through, right? I could talk about the business and the business community in downtown Jackson. I can talk about you all winning. Okay. I was wondering if you could say that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was going there, right? I was hoping

Pablo Gonzalez: 36:48

you'd go there because I feel like I'm winning as a, as somebody that owns rental properties around the urban core.

Gregg Cohen: 36:52

Exactly. I don't see somebody that's losing here unless you were of the mindset that you want Jacksonville to be the, the sleepy town that it was probably 10 years and before. Yeah. You know, it really isn't so sleepy anymore. We're, we're much less under the radar, but if you are of that mindset that You know, with growth, there are certainly other challenges that will have, you know, you're probably not going to support this deal if you really don't want growth.

Pablo Gonzalez: 37:16

So let's tap into that winning GC. I think we're going to save this for later, but I think it's a natural segue. We talk about this idea that invest as investors, we're winning by investing in these single family housing, single family homes around the urban core. And we're saying that because. For a long time on the show, we've talked about how a thriving downtown, you know, makes property values go up around it and Jacksville's downtown is about to go from being an eight hour downtown where people just go to work to a 16 hour downtown where people live, work, play, and the way that that happens is through a couple of different mechanisms that we've talked about, right? It's this idea. Number one is clustering. You want to explain what clustering is?

Gregg Cohen: 37:58

Yes. If you have goals to have the biggest impact and you are developing an area, we'll call it downtown Jacksonville, you have to be very thoughtful about how you tackle this. And the best way to receive the biggest impact is to cluster your development. And that's what you're starting to see from developers like JWB. For those of you who came to be a part of the summit last, just she's four months ago or so. We walked downtown Jacksonville and we got to see the projects that JWB owns as well as gateway, which is the fund that JWB set up to develop additional properties downtown. And guess what? They're right in the same, they're on the same street, right? We did a little loop around here and there is so much. Clustered activity that's either happening right now or is about to break ground. And that's by design, because when you do that, you can start to. You can start to improve experiences for people to be able to walk out of one store and into another or walk out of one store and into their apartment. And you can solve problems like challenge, excuse me, parking and other challenges that people have. You can do this through effective place making. So, clustered development is the key, especially for a downtown like Jacksonville, which is roughly. 3. 9 square miles wide, which is a which is a big downtown. You got to cluster it

Pablo Gonzalez: 39:16

and in simple terms That just means buildings communicating with each other across the street, right? So like I want to go from one to the other because it looks attractive and it's easy to get to And it solves for like shading and you know having public transportation and different things like that So now when we look at this Development that's happening in the stadium than the sports entertainment districts and the shipyards. That is a cluster, right? Like that is all coming up together is going to communicate really well. We look across downtown right diagonally to what you just referenced the cluster that JWB already has developed and the Pearl Street district, which is this thing that is happening with Gateway Jacks. That's another cluster where it's all going to communicate. And what you start to notice in these downtown urban cores is that, you know, like when you're building a puzzle, what are the first things you look for?

Gregg Cohen: 40:03

The big pieces, the corner pieces,

Pablo Gonzalez: 40:05

right? You look for the corner pieces in order to frame it. And then after that, what do you look for the edges? I'm just going to, I'm just going to fill it in for you. Then you start looking for the edges, right? So, and then once you have the edges and the corner pieces, everything else gets a lot easier. And these clusters that happen in the downtown at the at opposing corners. Are the corner pieces, then the rest of the edges are going to start filling in with the, the UF graduate school. Then what's the other big one that's coming in that I'm afraid the landing is also happening and that big public project that's going to be happening there with art and whatnot. Right. So like you start seeing the edges happen and once those edges are set, the rest of the puzzle starts to fit in. Right. So these to me are, this is what's happening right now in downtown Jacksonville, which In 10 years, once all this stuff is there, people are going to start wanting to fill these other things in on their own. And then that's going to lead to this thriving downtown where people are going to want to bring jobs to and more relocate to more people are going to want to live down there because there's going to be more jobs. The economic flywheel starts spinning. And then that's what creates all these 6, 000 homes that you, me, and the rest of our community owns around the urban core. The home price appreciation curve bends because now there's all this demand for that housing around it. And we happen to have some that we give to workforce residents while there's also another mix of other, you know, other housing stock going up around it.

Gregg Cohen: 41:26

And I think you said that really well. I think that was great.

Pablo Gonzalez: 41:29

I've been thinking about it. I wanted to spoil it. I wanted to be able to like do one take and be able to write a newsletter about it. So there you go.

Gregg Cohen: 41:35

I think mission accomplished. So for me, you know, when I hear that, if I'm not me, if I'm not a returning veteran of the Not Your Average Investor show, if I'm just showing up for the first time, or maybe just seeing this on social somewhere, you might be saying to yourself, I feel like I've heard this before. Like, I feel like, you know, like the pitch of like this big boom is, is, is like a, it's a P it's a pitch that I've heard before. But here's what I love the most about this pitch. It's that you don't have to be an early adopter at this phase, right? You don't have to be like JWB was. Five years ago, starting to make plans to actually go and buy downtown buildings before anybody was buying downtown buildings and put the capital out. Right? You don't have to be a believer in downtown as far as people actually already moving there. Like we had to be, or if you go all the way back five years, 10 years, 15 years ago, like you didn't have this data to show what revitalized downtown cities do to neighborhoods that are right around downtown. So what I love about this pitch is that you don't have to be an early adopter. You don't have to take this type of risk that you typically have to take as a developer or as somebody who wants to capitalize on an investment like this. And you do that by two things. You mitigate your risk two ways. Number one, you do that because you're investing in single family rental properties that provide cash flow every single month, right? The reason that I'm coming to you and saying you should be investing in single family rental properties around this beautiful puzzle that we have in downtown, which is being filled in is because I don't want you to take outsized risks. Right? How much money could you make if you bought a downtown building and went all in and all that? Sure, you could probably take more money, but I don't know when that's going to turn around. I became a commercial building developer. And yeah, there's a ton of risk there. Yeah. Like, you know, JWB is doing that on a small scale because we're ready for that. And we're here and we know what we're doing. But that's not the right thing for an investor out there. What I love. For all of our clients is risk mitigated ways to take advantage of outsized capital appreciation. And that's why investing in single family rental properties, these beautiful single family rental properties that pay for themselves every single month that are close enough to what's going on downtown, that rents and home prices will go up over time. That's the first thing that I love about it. And the second thing is you don't have to look far to become a believer in downtown Jacksonville once you actually know what to look for. Yep. Even before this Jags deal has been announced, even before There was 4 billion of construction going on downtown. Let me say that again. There's 4 billion of construction going on downtown, not named the stadium before the stadium. This will only add to it. Um, before any of that, you already saw people starting to. Moved downtown. Mm-Hmm. We had about 3,500 people living downtown for the longest time. As long as I can remember. I've lived here for the better part of 18 years. It was about 3,500 up until about three years ago, four years ago. And now we're at 8,500. Yep. And that's still small for a city who has 1.6 million people in the metropolitan statistical area. Yep. But that's a lot of growth in a short period of time. And they haven't even seen some of the amenities. They haven't seen the stadium of the future, right? They haven't seen a lot of these buildings coming out of the ground. So if you know where to look, that story tells itself. And that reduces risk by seeing people that are already moving downtown. And of course, it's a single family rental property. So I think it's, I think it's both the upside here, but it's also the risk mitigation that I love the most about it.

Pablo Gonzalez: 45:18

I love it too, man. Let's, let's talk real quick. We haven't really talked much about how it's, how this stuff is getting funded on the public side. Yeah. Um, I know it was the speaking point of there's this better Jacksonville plan sales tax until 2030. How much do you know about that GC? A

Gregg Cohen: 45:31

little bit. I did a little bit of research on it, right? So, the better Jacksonville plan. was something that was voted on and put into place and it's a half cent sales tax. And the, in recent administrations, the plan was to actually let that sunset after 2026 and then use that money so that we could continue to do construction, but we didn't have to take on as many financing costs. as a city and, you know, reduce the cost to taxpayers. That was the plan. Yeah. But we of course have the right to continue that tax that half cent sales tax if we see better opportunities. And so mayor Deegan has looked at the best way to fund this and what she is advocating. And I think it's a really smart plan is to keep that better Jacksonville plan in place until the year 2030, which is That's already been voted on as a possibility. We could have decided to end it after 2026, but we can also extend it all the way up to 2030. And so what that's going to allow us to do is to not increase property taxes to Jacksonville homeowners in order to do this deal, not slow down or say no to any construction or incentive programs that are already in the works here. Everything that we're talking about with the Jag Stadium can now be additive. Yeah. Which is what it is and it doesn't raise property taxes for Jacksonville residents. What's going to happen is that half cent sales tax is going to continue on through. So is that

Pablo Gonzalez: 46:55

like a half cent per transaction on everything? Kind of thing. So yeah. Half

Gregg Cohen: 46:58

cent sales tax. Yeah.

Pablo Gonzalez: 46:59

Yeah. So it's not like a 0. 5 percent sales tax on everything.

Gregg Cohen: 47:03

No, it's a half cent.

Pablo Gonzalez: 47:05

Half a cent. So anytime you buy anything, it's an extra half a cent.

Gregg Cohen: 47:08

Yes. Okay. So I would imagine, I don't know everything that it's taxed on. I'm sure there's something better. So,

Pablo Gonzalez: 47:13

you know what I like about that? That it's like a consumption tax, right? Like it doesn't, to me, these consumption taxes that are based on like how much stuff you buy in general, that doesn't like take a percentage of like all your spending, but just like it's per transaction. Tends to tax people that spend the most money and it's kind of like it's not taxing Folks that are trying to save money by not doing things as much as just taxing people that have expendable income, right? Like when it's by transaction is generally done on more expendable income more like nights out to restaurants more stuff that you buy Yeah, so it's taxing people that have the money to spend

Gregg Cohen: 47:49

Well, yeah, and there's different ways to look at like the types of taxation, right? But I think the thing that everybody in Jacksonville can agree on here is that No matter if you live in Jacksonville or you just happen to be in Jacksonville, and you go out to dinner or whatever, you're going to be paying as well. Yeah, the tourists pay as well. So, that's another good thing as far as how, you know, if you are here in Jacksonville, how are you going to be focused on paying for this thing.

Pablo Gonzalez: 48:13

Not a property tax. Our property taxes are not going to go up because of

Gregg Cohen: 48:16

the mayor's come out very strong and said that we don't need to do that. What we're going to do is use that money and that's 600 million or so that would be raised through the continuation of the current tax structure. And we're going to use that so that we can go ahead and fund those other construction projects that are going on. And And then what we'll do is we'll use financing as a city, we'll have enough financing capabilities to be able to borrow the majority, or maybe all, I'm not 100 percent certain, but borrow the large majority of the, call it 775 million, which will actually go to funding the renovation.

Pablo Gonzalez: 48:48

Pretty decent. Pretty decent, man. All right. Billy Green's got a question. I keep hearing about the efforts for affordable housing, which I'm 100 percent for, but what strategies are implemented which makes such housing affordable? Is it subsidized and then filled with new owners via lottery to the presumably high demand for such affordable housing? Sorry if this is a dopey question.

Gregg Cohen: 49:06

This is not a dopey question. Not dopey, Billy. No, this is, this is a great question. Yeah. And, you know, I think people are asking more questions about affordable housing because you're seeing such a It's in, it's a need man. It's in the, it's a need and people understand that that's, you know, ultimately one of the biggest challenges for our society, our economy.

Pablo Gonzalez: 49:26

And I love that our community cares about affordable housing. Yeah.

Gregg Cohen: 49:29

Well, and then I think people are also starting to understand how have home prices remained so high. Yeah. In the midst of high interest rates and at the core of it, it's something we've been saying for years here, which is that there is a supply problem, meaning that we don't have enough supply to support demand. And the supply problem is the most challenging in the affordable housing sector. So how, how, what is best practices for solving this? Well, there's a number of different ways you can do it. Yeah. One of the ways that cost taxpayers the least is just making it easier to build. So, reducing red tape and making it easier to build with density. So, instead of having one unit on a piece of property, Allowing that to have two, or three, or four, and you can just do that by changing some of the regulations that we have in our different municipalities across the country. And so, I think that's what smart municipalities are starting to look at, because that costs taxpayers the least, right? You can you know, increase supply that way. The next couple are really strong and, and absolutely help, but those are where you get into incentives. So, you can incentivize developers, which you're seeing a lot of developer incentives. Developers have always had incentives to focus on affordable housing but you're seeing even more developer dollars go towards that. That so what does that mean you you incentivize a developer to go out there and build a housing development and you say 50 percent of the units have to be affordable by You know, the definition that the city outlines, so it might be 60 percent of the area median income or 80 percent of the area median income. And that's what rents would need to be. And so the developer agrees to go and develop this thing. They agree that they're not going to charge market rents for. Every unit there and in order to make it work from a city, from a developers lens, because they're giving up returns that they could otherwise get the city kicks in an incentive and maybe, you know, maybe says, you don't have to pay property taxes for 10 years or something along those lines, which is great for the city to because. Not actually costing them money because it wouldn't have been developed if the city didn't give that incentive. So, you know, again, a different framework on incentives. Incentives aren't all bad. And it doesn't always come out of our pocket. Right? So that's 1 thing. And then on the other side, we're able to make it more affordable for our folks who are trying to buy or rent. The places to live. And you can do that through down payment assistance. So this is one of the things that Jackson said, JWB just loves. We're such an expert in this. We're able to help our retail homeowners, those who are living in our homes and buying our homes to live in. We're able to get up to 75, 000 of down payment assistance. So while it's a very tough time for people to buy a home right now, because home prices have gone up so much, our clients. on the JWB Realty side, many times are able to buy a home and not bring any money out of pocket. And sometimes they don't have to pay any of this money back or the majority of this money back for our first time homebuyers. And that's what we teach a lot in our first time homebuyer classes. So, you know, incentive dollars are what drive that on the retail homeowner side. And then there's also, ways to supplement rental income as well. And so that's where you're starting to see the dollars go to.

Pablo Gonzalez: 52:56

Interesting, man. All right. Good stuff. I guess the second part of his question is, how do you award that housing? Do you know about that? Like how do people Qualify to get the affordable housing when there's such like a low supply and high demand

Gregg Cohen: 53:08

You mean like for the for the end user? Yeah

Pablo Gonzalez: 53:10

for the resident.

Gregg Cohen: 53:11

Well, you know on the retail homeowner side There's just a lack of knowledge and a lack of experience So this is where a great buyers agent who focuses on first time homebuyers can really be a resource. Okay for folks So that's what we do. We we hold first time homebuyer classes. We hold people's hands and say This is the program right now that has the funding. You should be applying for this. They all have different requirements and restrictions. So, some lenders can only work with this down payment assistance program and whatnot. So, you really need an advocate if you're a retail homeowner. And that's what your buyer's agent should be. You know, as far as incentives or ways to supplement housing on the rental side, Right. The HUD program is, is a way to supplement housing, right? Section eight program. So more dollars are being put into supplemental programs like HUD. And there's a number of other programs that might not be HUD or section eight, but. Might make it a little bit more affordable for our residents to be able to afford rent. Cool.

Pablo Gonzalez: 54:12

Great answer, man. Great question Belegrain, Mountain Man. Robert Jones has an interesting question here. He say, he's saying, where do, where do you think the downtown projects are going to be in the next three to five years? How much will be completed by then? And what he's really trying to figure out is how long until the butterfly effect Of downtown projects will make an impact on the rate of appreciation for our rental.

Gregg Cohen: 54:31

Well, I'll just answer the second one, the second question right off the bat. I think right now is the time to buy. And because there are many things that are going to lead to increased home price appreciation, and some of them are going to take a little bit longer to get here. I don't know how met what percentage of downtown projects are going to be completed in three years or five years. Right. The Jag Stadium, I think, is going to be a big driver of it. But there are 4 billion of projects that are going on right now that are going to be completed. Coming online, meaning being activated,

Pablo Gonzalez: 55:06

I mean, in five years, phase one of Pearl Street should be done, right?

Gregg Cohen: 55:10

Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So that'll be there. A hundred percent. I mean, I think it's a two year time. UF

Pablo Gonzalez: 55:14

campus should probably be there by three to five years. Yeah,

Gregg Cohen: 55:17

exactly.

Pablo Gonzalez: 55:17

Right. Landing is probably going to be

Gregg Cohen: 55:19

in this, in the stadium, right? You're seeing, you're seeing that

Pablo Gonzalez: 55:22

cornerstone pieces we're talking about will likely be done in the next three to five years.

Gregg Cohen: 55:25

Yeah. Yeah. But don't, don't fall into the trap of saying, Oh, you know what? I'm going to start to take advantage of this like six months before it happened. Because you can't time it. If you tried to do that in Nashville, you would have missed it. And by the time that home values went up that much, you would have paid

Pablo Gonzalez: 55:43

10

Gregg Cohen: 55:44

percent more than you otherwise would have spent. I guess my point is that there are so many other things that I have a lot more confidence that are going to happen like right now that are going to lead to more gains than waiting. For example, we just talked about the effect of interest rates in our last quarterly call. So, Robert, I would absolutely encourage you to go back and watch the Q2 real estate market update. And that was last week, right? That was last week. That was last week. Okay. So it's fresh. And what I did was I did a study of a couple of things. I compared other good times to buy You know, 2016, 2021, I compared other times when people thought it was a good time to buy, which is what people thought in 2009, according to a Gallup poll. And what I was able to show is that right now, if you took some of the, the noise and the chatter and the talking heads away from, is this a good time to buy or not, and you took the year off and you just compared the fundamentals, this is a market that is poised to grow. Normally, in the short run, normally in Jacksonville is 4. 9 percent per year. So it's poised to grow there. We have to kind of separate some of the noise out there, but I think the biggest thing that's going to lead to outsized home price appreciation gains over the next one year, two years, maybe, I don't know, but it's the effect of interest rates. Because what we know is that when long term mortgage rates fall, mortgage applications go up. Homebuyer demand goes up. And what we see over time is that years where home price, excuse me, years where mortgage rates went down, home prices went up every single time that we saw it. We did some data. It was years where mortgage rates went down at least 1%. Home prices went up more than the average for Jacksonville. Every time except for one, right? Yeah. Go back and go back and watch it. I'll tell you so I don't keep us distracted on that. But here's the thing. That's the biggest opportunity right now. I see to get some outsized appreciation. These other things are going to be so impactful, but I don't know exactly when they're going to hit. I think three to five years is a great timeline. But if you just wait. You're probably going to miss other gains that are a lot more tangible and able to be Kind of counted on in the short run.

Pablo Gonzalez: 58:00

Yeah, cool So that's a great advice for anybody listening, right? And if you want to get in go to chat with jwb. com Or shoot an email to info at jwb companies. com if you want to Be a part of all of this for Robert Jones himself. He saw the market update. He already owns two properties in Jacksonville with, with, with JWB. So I think he's just saying, Hey man, when is it going to start happening?

Gregg Cohen: 58:19

Yeah.

Pablo Gonzalez: 58:21

Which I assume it also means how long should I wait till I exit or sell or something like that. Yeah. I don't know if you'd think about it differently that way, G. C.

Gregg Cohen: 58:29

Well, I, I just think that's a, that's a personal conversation, Robert, with your portfolio manager here at JWB, you know, everybody's liquidation plan is, is a little bit different based on your goals. You know, we can make an argument that holding on for the next 30 years might be the right thing to do.

Pablo Gonzalez: 58:42

Yeah.

Gregg Cohen: 58:43

You know, it might be, it might make sense for you to sell, you know, five years after owning it right off the bat. It's typically the shortest that, you know, that will, that will advocate. But

Pablo Gonzalez: 58:51

I can tell you that when I'm hearing you say all this stuff and we're talking about all these things happening and I know it's going to happen at some point. What I'm thinking as somebody that owns three properties with JWB is, you know, I'm looking forward to interest rates going down, which will happen in the near future, which will raise property prices. And then this stuff started to really like make sense to everybody else and drive demand up and drive pricing up, which is what I'm, what I'm thinking is this is a speed up to the time when I have enough home price appreciation and the rates have gone down that I'm going to be able to refinance and pick up a couple more properties for free based on the fact that like my properties are paying the appreciation for the, my current properties are going to be, are going to allow me to grow my portfolio. And that's been your plan

Gregg Cohen: 59:32

from day one. I'm going to own these. Over time, they're going to increase in value. I'm going to take the house's money, literally, the house's money, and then I'm going to recycle that into more assets and start to build that army of income producing assets.

Pablo Gonzalez: 59:46

Yeah, and it's, I can't take credit for that plan. I feel like a lot of folks in our community have done that plan. I think, I call it the Hervé Francois plan.

Gregg Cohen: 59:53

There you go.

Pablo Gonzalez: 59:53

Because that's what Hervé did, and that was when it opened up my eyes on that show, right? That's true. Anything else GC? That was pretty good, man. Yeah, man. This was a lot of fun. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Anything you're looking forward to next week, GC?

Gregg Cohen: 1:00:08

Oh, next week's a big show. I hope you guys come. I hope you tell somebody to come, too, because next week we're going to be celebrating our birthday. 400th

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:00:17

episode. Officially, I know that we've talked about that we're right around 400. Next week is officially the 400th episode and we got a little surprise for everybody. We have been talking about, you know, how GC makes predictions and how we're going to take a look back. I figured 400 and we have enough data. We have enough perspective. We're going to, we, my team is going out and picking the clips of the different predictions that GC has made over 400 episodes. We're at a great old great GC grade. content producer, GC. All right, we'll see how it shakes out. Yeah. So we're gonna, we're gonna go back, take a look back at all these different predictions, give them a grade, see how well they played out. And then, uh, and then we're going to ask you for your latest predictions. So I think it's going to be a really, really great episode. Hope that the community is there. I'm pumped that you all showed up today for this as you normally do on Tuesday. We don't take it lightly. Taking an hour out of your day to spend time with us. You make this show great. And, from now till show 400, between 399 and 400, we just have one thing to ask. Don't be average. See y'all next video.