How PCB panelization methods inform depanelization

In episode 19, we focused on the different types of depanelization methods that can be used during assembly. In this episode, we take a deeper dive into panelization, how we decide what panelization methods and sizes to use, and how this informs depanelization. 

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Transcript

Chris: 0:08

welcome to the pick place podcast to show where we talk about electronics, manufacturing and everything related to getting a circuit board into the world. This is Chris Danny with Worthington.

Melissa: 0:17

and this is Melissa Hough with CircuitHub

Chris: 0:21

Welcome back, Melissa.

Melissa: 0:22

welcome back, Chris.

Chris: 0:24

What's so funny.

Melissa: 0:26

Nothing, nothing at all.

Chris: 0:28

Yeah.

Melissa: 0:28

Not definitely not the fact that we almost just recorded a episode that we already recorded before. Definitely not that.

Chris: 0:37

definitely not that. So episode 19 was all about PCB depaneling methods and I completely forgot that we had covered depanelization and put all kinds of effort into documenting. I mean, I've. Notes and notes and notes, a full outline about how, you know, everything that goes into depaneling. And we would just be covering the exact same information again, I'm sure we'll touch on it. But today, instead of talking about depanelizattiion, we are gonna talk about panelization. What do you think.

Melissa: 1:10

So in episode 19, we did go into the different panelization methods that you can use.

Chris: 1:16

Okay, well, but we are going to go into it in more detail.

Melissa: 1:21

Okay.

Chris: 1:21

It'll be a deeper dive into panelization.

Melissa: 1:24

sounds good. And if you did listen to that episode, then you know, now you'll just be an extra expert on panelization.

Chris: 1:34

that's right. Yeah, I was, yeah. Yeah. You know, I I've, I may have told this analogy on the podcast before but I've told other people who, who they, they they'll tell me like, Hey Chris, you know, such and such a thing is going on and then it'll be like, remember so, and so, or remember when we talked about this and that, and I'll be like, no, I have no idea. And they look at me like, I've got. Third eyeball, cuz they're like, what? How can you not remember this? We, we literally just met this person a week ago and it's like, yeah, I have no, I'm sorry. I don't remember. And. Eventually, eventually it comes around and they're like, remember we talked about this and we did that. And it's like, oh, right, right. So as I'm preparing all my notes here, I'm, I'm going, boy, I feel like I've talked about this before and I'm going through and I'm like, boy, I have definitely talked about this before. And I had even looked to make sure we hadn't talked about it before, but for some reason I did not notice sure. Enough episode 19. So when these, when these circumstances hit me, I like to tell this analogy of how my memory, you know, my brain's ability to remember things is, you know, it's like I have this, it's like, I have this beautiful warehouse with excellent lighting. It is. Perfectly climate controlled, everything is sorted and orderly. The shelves are marked, you know, each row has a, has a letter. Each shelf has a number like everything is like, perfect. It's exactly what you want from a warehouse. The trouble is my forklift is broken. And I can't retrieve anything until somebody comes around and helps jumpstart my forklift. And then it's like, oh right. Yes. Okay. Now I found it. Yeah,

Melissa: 3:26

like that. I like that.

Chris: 3:28

that is, that is my memory. It's it's, it's funny because I have I have this friend in New Jersey, he has. Like that perfect warehouse. And he's got like 16 perfectly operating forklifts. Like his, his ability to recall things in the moment instantly is unmatched. It's absolutely incredible. So anyway, apologies if this is a bit of a redundant episode, but I wanted to talk about panelization, because it was kind of fresh in my mind. We were just working on a project recently and trying to help a customer with getting their product to fit into an enclosure properly. And we're going over all the various things that we can do to make it work. And I'm like, you know what? It's fresh in my brain. Let's talk. And I wanted to talk about depanelization because it informs so much about panelization, but since we already talked about depanelization, let's talk about panelization and how it informs depanelization and so, you know, perhaps listeners are going, what in the world is he talking about depanelization, panelization? Well, if you've never manufactured your own circuit board and maybe you've just ordered boards from Oshpark or something like that. You've probably just had one board at a time and, and you assembled it just the one board at a time. But in, in a manufacturing environment, in, in, you know, where you're doing dozens or hundreds of thousands of the same board over and over, you don't wanna handle one board at a time. You can imagine how painful it would be to try to move one board over and over and over and over which we. Not too long ago for a customer. We had, we had a panel that was one up and it was like, it was, I forget over 2000 pieces and we were trying to build everything and it was like, we can't do this again. So then we next go round. We did a three up and life is good, but. Why do we wanna do a three up? Well, literally the cost of moving a board through a factory is real. Whether it's a human being, moving it through the factory, whether it's a conveyor, moving it through a factory, there is some cost associating to moving a circuit board through a factory. And when you can move many circuit boards all at once, that would be an advantage. So think about it. If you were emptying your dishwasher and you have, you know, I don't know if, if, you know, some people they'll, they'll put all the knives in this section of their dishwasher and all the spoons in this section and all the forks in this section or something like that. But let's just say you had 10 knives in your dishwasher and you needed to put them into your, your cutlery drawer you know, across your kitchen. If you walk to your dishwasher and you picked up one knife and then walk to your cutlery drawer and put it away, and then you walk back over to your dishwasher and you picked up one and you walked over, you get the idea versus if you just grab all 10 at once and put all 10 at once into your cutlery drawer, think about the time savings there. It's no different in manufacturing. You, you wanna move as many boards at the same time as you can, but there's limitations to that. You know, it's interesting the, the a PCB typically is going to be 62 mil thick or 1.6 millimeters. And that is you know, it's pretty rigid. It really is quite rigid. If you know, many of us have held. If you're listening to this, almost certainly you've held the circuit board in your hand before, and you get the idea of how rigid these things are, but as you start to cut grooves in them and you start to have routed areas and you start to like all of a sudden you're weak, you know, You're weakening it and weakening it and weakening it. You got a big Swiss cheese of a circuit board now rather than you know, ni big old flat piece of American cheese. this analogy's breaking down horribly. And, but if you, yeah, cheddar. Cheddar is too. Yeah. Cheddar is nice and rigid. There you go. Cheddar is much better. Nice, nice sharp cheddar. You think about it. Now it's gonna start to kind of sag, right? Rather than staying nice and flat. And that sagging that we call, we often use the word bow that bowing or flexing of the PCB is gonna create problems in the manufacturing process. And the larger that PCB is the more of a bow you're gonna get. Many of us have, hopefully all of us have been on a road before and we've, we've passed underneath a bridge and you'll notice that the beams that are holding up a bridge, those pieces of steel are a certain height. Right? So on a short bridge, those, those beams might be, I don't know, I'm making up numbers now, but let's call it you know, let's call. 24 inches, you know, tall. And that, that height is what gives that beam its strength, because it's got a lot of steel and it, it doesn't wanna bow because it's got all that height. Well, if you're, if you're building a 30 30 foot bridge, that's probably gonna work fine. 24 inch tall beam. But if you're building a 300 foot bridge, That 24 inch beam is probably not quite tall enough. You either need to have a center support for it, some kind of a column in the middle, or you need to, you know, you need to hang it from wires or you need to do something to prevent that bridge from bowing it's no different in circuit board manufacturing. The difference is we can't go out and source a 36 inch beam or a 48 inch beam to try to handle the extra weight. You know, usually. Most circuit board designs are 1.6 millimeters. So the larger and larger and larger you make that panel the more and more and more it's gonna flex. Especially as I mentioned earlier, if you have V scoring or you have routed areas and all kinds of things, it's gonna flex more and more and more, So there's various ways of mitigating that the most obvious ways to make the panel not quite as big. There's a certain Area where you can pretty confidently say, this board is not gonna flex too much. We can make it that big. But not always, you know, and, and again, depending on the design of the product, it might just naturally lend itself to flexing more because it's got all these routed edges and all these weird little things that, you know, we can't hold it nice and rigid. So in the manufacturing process, we have all, all sorts of various tools to compensate for that flexing. In the stencil printing process, we'll have some kind of a pins that are pushing up on the bottom of the board while clamps are pulling down on the top of the board, on the edges of the board to try to get it nice and flat same thing in the pick and place process in the reflow process, if you're holding it by the edges of the PCB, some reflow ovens have no center support at all. So when it goes into the oven, it as it heats up, especially, so now you're introducing heat.

Melissa: 10:07

Mm-hmm

Chris: 10:08

Thing's really gonna flex and it really does. And sometimes you can get some really gnarly looking circuit boards come out the other end and then that causes all kinds of downstream problems with trying to get it to, to be seen well in an AOI machine, trying to solder it properly in a selective soldering machine, because a selective soldering machine isn't gonna wanna. Walk up and down and all over the board, it's gonna expect the board to be nice and flat. So now you're trying to compensate for the bow and there, and yada yada, yada, on and on and on. So all of this is to say that the size of the panels that we create are really, you know, a lot of thought actually does go into them. Because again, you wanna move 10 boards at a time. You don't wanna move one board at a time, if you can help it. And. But there's, there's a limit, right? You can't go crazy with these things. The other thing is sometimes the panels can be so big. You just can't fit boards on a shelf, or, you know, they're just cumbersome for people to hold in their hands. You know, there's, there's phys, there's a physical nature, physical maximum, that's really comfortable to handle these things. So, you know, all of this is to. Please don't do your own panelization. Every manufacturer is gonna have their own particular requirements. They're gonna have their own machines that, you know, oh, we can't handle boards quite this big. Or, you know, if your board was just a, if your panel was just a little bit smaller, we could put it on our dual lane machines. You know, if you made it a little bit bigger, then we could fit your full order. In, in one rack rather than two racks, you know, there's all sorts of there's tons and tons and tons of little decision making things that go along the way into how big you make your panel. We actually. Kind of have like a guideline on our website and, and I have a URL which will include in these, in the show notes, but it's not really intended for our customers. It's really intended for our suppliers because a lot of the time rather than have our own in-house people tool up the panel. We'll send your Gerber files or your CAD fires or whatever to the board shop and their cam team will create the panel for us based on our guidelines. And then we'll go back and forth a few times and say, nah, I don't like this. Change that blah, blah, blah, rotate this. And, and all that kind of stuff until eventually we get it exactly the way that we want it. I mean, I could go on and on. That would be too much. I can't, I can't go on too much longer about the decision making process for how big we build the panels. Otherwise we'll be here all day. Just talking about that. But how do you, okay. So if you think about it though, when you get that board in your hand it's just one board, right? We we've built it in a, in a 10 up panel. How, how does it end up to be just one board in your hand? And that's, that's what episode 19 was mostly about that depaneling process. But so much of that is informed by as mentioned earlier, the paneling process, when. We when we take a look at a design, if it has nice, nice straight lines on the edges, you know, if it's a circular board or something like that, for whatever reason, you, you're not gonna be able to use a method called V scoring, which is literally grooving a V into the board on the top end on the bottom. That's really only designed for straight lines. It's literally literally only designed for straight lines. It only works in straight lines. So if you have a, you know, kind of a weird rounded shape to your board, probably we're gonna have to route that board. And, and when I say route, I mean like a router, like, like you're doing woodworking, you have to put a router through the board you know, with routed bits and, and various sizes and, and widths and everything to. Cut, you know, cut these, this board edge into the panel. V scoring is very, very cheap when a PCB fab does its vs scoring. They basically, you know, they set up their VSCO machine, but then they just kind of slide the panel through and it just all comes off the other edge really quickly with all the vs in one direction. Then they'll rotate it and they'll run it through maybe a separate machine or maybe they'll batch it up and retool the vs score, but they'll run through the X direction and then they'll run it through the Y and they get all the V vs scores the way that they need it. It's very, very quick, very, very inexpensive tab routing on the other hand is Quite a bit more expensive. So if you do have a weird shape or, you know, rounded edges and things like that, you're gonna have to go through a router. And that's a totally extra process. It's slow compared to V scoring, cuz you just have the one router that's just cutting through everything and you gotta add a ton more drill holes, which if you remember back on what was it, episode 46 where we talked with Dave about drilling. Drilling is kind of, you know, one of the most expensive processes in PCB manufacturing, because it's kind of the most time consuming and slowest and has the most opportunity for things to go wrong. So when you're tab routing, when you're creating these so-called mouse bites, cuz they look like a little mouse bit into your circuit board they that's very expensive cuz you gotta add all those extra drills to create that perforated edge of the mouse bite. But it does, you know, does get the job done. And if you have a weird shape, you know, at least you can, at least you can do it. You know, sometimes your end product requires this weird shape and there's nothing you can do about it. But you know, generally speaking that is gonna be a more expensive panelization process than the V scoring. The V scoring has plenty of limitations though. Not necessarily in the PCB fab, but in the assembly process. So if you have say you have some like overhanging parts, say you've got like a Bluetooth or wifi module that the antenna hangs over the edge, or maybe you have a USB port or you got some red angle connector, you know, all kinds of things. Well, if you're gonna hang that part over the edge of your PCB. And then we put a V score on there. Then we can't easily separate that V Score using a so-called pizza cutter. V score slicer. I'm not sure what to call it. I think there is a technical term. Let me see here.

Melissa: 16:19

I'm sure there

Chris: 16:19

they give it a yeah. What do they call this? Circular blade depaneler.

Melissa: 16:25

There you go.

Chris: 16:27

Yeah, pizza cutter, circular blade depaneler. And yeah, so you can't really necessarily use that because you've got that overhanging USB port or Bluetooth module. So then you're gonna be breaking that by hand. To depanel that. And if that's the case, then you're going to, you know, introduce the, the stress that goes into breaking things off by hand. Now, if you have a module hanging over on the top side and on the bottom side, you have a USB port right underneath it or something like that. And now they're, they're kind of pinching. The, the extra material on the edge. Well, we have no choice, but to tab out at that point, because if we think about it, if we were to try to bend the boards apart where the V is in your, you know, just like folding a piece of paper, well, you've got, you've got a module in the way. You've got a USB port in the way. When you try to bend down, you've got a module in the way. When you try to bend up, you can't do it is literally impossible to penalize, quite literally impossible. So we have to route that area. So we'll take a look at that and we'll, we'll have to run a router around that so that it gives it some kind of a relief. When we go to do the deep panelization, we've run into that before that that was a really, really painful mistake. And that was our fault. Wasn't our customer's fault. We missed it, but oh, that was, and we, I think it was. Many hundreds of boards. I, I, perhaps thousands. I'm not sure it was really painful.

Melissa: 17:58

So what did you do? What do you do in that case? If you miss it?

Chris: 18:01

It was, it was not V scored. It was routed, but it was wasn't routed with enough relief for those components. So what we were able to do is we were able to break the nearby mouse bites really, really carefully. I think we actually cut them. We cut the mouse bites rather than snapping them. And then we were able to just pull it away between the two devices, but it was really time consuming and really annoying to do. Yeah. You tend to figure it out, you know, you tend to find something, that'll let you get the job done. It's usually usually not too easy though. Another thing that goes into panelization is we have to accommodate the the automated handling systems that we have for all of our boards. Most, every machine in our building, I say most because there is one outlier. Only one of the dozens of machines in our building. There's only one that does not meet the SMEMA spec. And I've talked about this a hundred times before. No, I don't remember what SMEMA stands for, please. Somebody right into us to remind me what it stands for. Cause I can never remember. But the most important thing we need to remember is that we need three, at least. Minimum of three millimeters of edge clearance to hold the board in our manufacturing process, because it's gonna be riding on three millimeter conveyor rails. Well we usually don't leave just three millimeters. We usually do about 10 millimeters because then we also will put our fiducials on there. We'll put our our tooling holes on there. All kinds of stuff like that. Those rails ended up, end up just getting broken off at the edge, but if it's possible and if you have the real estate for it and you can design it in such a way that you have no components and no solder joints within three millimeters of. Of your, the edges of your board and you can put fiducials on there, then we don't have to add the rails. So we save all that material. We save all that extra de paneling time. It's actually quite a big win. So when you can do it, it's great. But I would say wholy 95, 99% of everything we build. Yeah. Nothing, nothing. we have to add rails on almost everything. So at this point, it's, it's so common and so rare to have room that we don't even, we don't even think about it anymore. We just add rails to everything, just period, just don't even, you know, it's, it's not even worth putting the effort into think about it because pretty much nothing. Would would work that way when we have control over the design. And when we try to, you know, do the design ourselves, we, as best as we can, if it's possible, we will design it that way. But even then the end product may require something hanging over the edge and you know, you just can't do, it could be an indicator. L E D could be a on, off switch. You don't know, but you know, USB. It's gotta go right to the edge. And so, you know, you can't make it happen, but when it's possible, when we have been able to do it, we do it. And then we save all that extra de panelization time, which is quite nice. The other crazy, oh, this is the other crazy thing. So sometimes you'll have like a weird shape to your board. It won't be rectangular or even circular, maybe it's, you know, like some kind of like a weird L shape. or, you know, you shape or, or, you know, you get the idea as some kind of a wonky shape in order to save space on the panel. The size of the panel can dictate as mentioned earlier, a lot of manufacturing problems, but also it can dictate a lot of manufacturing costs, or I should say the fabrication costs cuz the, the larger, you know, they, a lot of times when they, when they do their quoting. The size of your board has a significant impact on the cost of it. Well, if they can take your little L shape and they can rotate them, you know, one, it looks like a regular L like you would read it in the English language and then they take the other one and they rotate it 180 degrees so that they kind of recess into each other.

Melissa: 21:55

mm-hmm

Chris: 21:56

That can save a lot of space in the panel, so you can get more boards within the panel. It saves the P fab, a bunch of money. It saves us from having to have a huge panel, but also still we're able to get you know, as many boards as we want into your panel. That that can be an interesting thing that we do as well. All of this again is just to say, please, don't do your own panelization., you know, we have a lot of experience doing these sorts of things and we'll do our very best to. to handle those kinds of situations.

Melissa: 22:24

Do you ever use like a combination of V score and tab route like, would that be possible or would there be any circumstances where you would do that?

Chris: 22:35

Yeah, all the time, actually on a very high number of boards because what'll happen is let's say you are, look at the shape of a typical iPhone or, you know, any pretty much, they all kind of look the same nowadays. Don't they look at the corners of your iPhone.

Melissa: 22:49

mm-hmm

Chris: 22:50

There, you know, you have a long clean edge on the left and then a rounded corner and then a long clean edge on the top and then a rounded corner and so on. So those clean edges will put a vs score on, but then we have to use a router to route that That corner, that, that radius on the corner. So that's a really, really common scenario. And then there's other scenarios where yeah, you, you will do a tab route on this edge, but then you'll do a V V groove on this other edge. Yeah, that's a really, really common scenario. Yep. We see that a lot. Where, where penalization becomes really tricky, especially is when you go to a different thickness. So, if you have a very thin board, we are going to want to make that panel quite small, if we can get away with it, because again now, instead of building your bridge with a 24 inch tall beam, we're gonna be building a bridge with a six inch tall beam. Well, it better either be a really short bridge or have a lot of support underneath it. Cuz otherwise you're gonna have a bunch of cars collapsing on it. So, so really thin boards, we have to be very careful about not making them too big on very thick boards. We have to be careful about doing any kind of panelization. Sometimes thick boards can be really tricky to depanel with standard tools. I mean, if you go from say, oh, 63 or oh, 62, whatever, let's sorry. Let's use metric let's if you go from 1.6 millimeter to 1.8 mill. Eh, you're probably not gonna struggle too much. You get to two millimeter, 2.2, 2.4 millimeter, especially 2.4 millimeter, something like that. You're really, it's, it's really tricky to depanel those with standard tools. You're, you're either gonna have to break them by hand, which is quite often what ends up being required. But if it's really. And really strong and you can't get any leverage on it. A lot of times you have to use a pneumatic cylinder with like a T-shaped knife. This is really hard to describe, but yeah. Anyway, I I'll I'll include a link in, yeah, I'll, I'll set up a, a link for the show notes to see what this looks like, but it's a pneumatic cylinder with a T-shaped knife and you put your. You put your mouse bite under that T and you press a foot pedal. And that T drops down below. The plane of your PCB and cuts through that mouse bite. And hopefully not your fingers, these things are dangerous. Very dangerous. So, that's typically how you're gonna, you're gonna de panel a real thick board is with a tool like that. You're not gonna, you're not gonna vscore it. That's that's out of the, out of the question, really. I think, I think there are some scenarios where you can, but again, you probably have to get like special tools just. Just to finish the V score. I don't think we're gonna do it with our standard pizza cutter on the on those things. But when it comes to, when it comes to panelization and these sorts of things, besides leaving it up to us to do the panelization, there are some design considerations you can make to make panelization a little bit easier. Most of it comes down to leaving enough room near your board edge. So, and, and a lot of times that comes down to specifically leaving enough copper near your board edge, because if we're gonna, if we're gonna slice a groove in it you need to kind of have at least 20 mills of, of space between your board edge and your copper. And you can set this up in your DRC. I wanna say a lot of DRCs are probably automatically set up to, to be 20 mill or so, which is half a millimeter. It may be less or excuse me, it may be more than that. They may give you a little bit more wiggle room, but that's kind of the minimum. That's kind of the closest you can get, if you wanna be able to do a VG groove. And again, if you're trying to keep cost down, VG groove is the cheaper way to go. That's just the copper though. That's just a trace or, or a copper pour or something like that. If you have components near the edge, you wanna try to get those even further away. As many as 50 mill, which is 1.3 millimeters. The reason you wanna keep those further away is because when you, when you've run that pizza slicer through the v grooze It is going to create kind of like a wave of, of force of stress on the board. So wherever that pizza slicer is, it's kind of, you know, creating a, a bit of a dip in the board as it's cutting, and then it's, it's bouncing back as you cut through and, and release that force, release that stress. Usually that. Perfectly fine amount of stress for, for most things, especially if they're not super, super close to the edge, except for MLCCs multilayer chip capacitors. If you have ceramic capacitors or multilayer, ceramic capacitors, excuse me. If you have ceramic capacitors close to the edge, they're very brittle and they can become damaged. If they're too close to the edge. If possiiible try to keep those things, at least 125 mill or 3.2 millimeters from the edge. You know, you may be fine if you get it even closer, it may be fine, but you're, you are running a risk at that point of, of having issues with those becoming cracked because they're so brittle. And as that pizza slicer comes through, it could, it could, it could damage it. I can't say that I've ever seen this myself. I think, I think, you know, this is a thing that does happen and it's like, you know, if you're making an automotive board or something and you're making a million of these things, trust me, you're gonna have a few failures because you got these things too much closer to the, to the edge than you should. But if you're making 50, you may never notice it. But now, so that's for V V grooving because there there's just more stress involved in that de penalization process. If you're doing like a routed board, then you are you're you still wanna keep your components probably, you know, 50 mil from the edge of the board. You wanna keep it as much as 125 mil from where the actual tab is gonna go, because that tab. Is gonna experience a lot more force than anywhere else on the board where it's routed just through the depanelization process when you're but otherwise, if you just have some kind of copper near the board edge, you can get even closer. So remember with V groove it was about 20 mil with routed. You can get about five mil which is 0.127mm you can get pretty darn close. So if you're also trying to pack as much as possible then count on your, your assembler making that a a routed, a routed board instead of a V groove cuz they can see how close everything is and they gotta be careful with that. And I think we talked about this on our depanelization episode. But if you have very specific requirements of like, Hey, you know, I need to hold a really tight tolerance on this board edge somewhere. Let us know, like, make that very clear in your documentation, because then we will use all of our knowledge and experience to make sure that we hold that appropriately. But we may need to work with you to create a recessed area where we can. Our mouse bites our breakaway tabs because otherwise they they're gonna wanna stick out proud of your PCB edge and then you'll never fit it into your enclosure or whatever else it ends up going into. So I'm almost certain we've talked about that before, but I like to remind people that it's something that you know, we do think about mostly we say this is gonna be a short one.

Melissa: 30:20

I don't know if we did, but this is gonna be a short one.

Chris: 30:23

30 minutes later. Yeah. Yeah, I mean the, the key takeaways here, I would say the key takeaways here are, square boards, rectangular boards are cheaper than, than funny shaped boards because you can, you can v groove them. Instead of doing the mouse bites, don't try to do your own panelization. Please let your manufacturer do the panelization. They're gonna have certain requirements for it. Oh, the other thing I didn't even touch on, I totally forgot to touch on this. A lot of times we're gonna wanna put extra material in the middle of the panel because. We wanna be able to support the board in various processes and some things like a reflow oven, you can't put random board supports underneath the board. You have to only put it in certain areas. And so a lot of times we'll throw a 10 millimeter rail down the center of the panel so that we can use the center board support in a reflow oven. So there's, there's just countless considerations. Yeah. But got all that, Melissa.

Melissa: 31:21

I do

Chris: 31:22

And your forklift is working better than mine.

Melissa: 31:25

I think so

Chris: 31:26

Okay. Does that mean you can remember your pet peeve that you wanted to share with us last time when Sam was on?

Melissa: 31:32

No, I did share my pet peeve last week when Sam

Chris: 31:34

No, but you had two, you had two.

Melissa: 31:35

Did I? No, I had two the week before.

Chris: 31:38

Oh, so we have no pet peeve this

Melissa: 31:40

No, we do have a pet peeve. I do have a pet peeve. Don't worry. Cuz I have my little notes now that I note yeah. That I jot them

Chris: 31:47

That's.

Melissa: 31:47

So my pet peeve is very relevant for me today because today that we're recording is a Thursday, which is the day that I do all of my weekly shopping in the evening. So, my pet peeve is when. Online says that something is in stock, in a store and then you get there and it's out of stock.

Chris: 32:08

oh, come on. No, that's the worst.

Melissa: 32:11

Yeah. Or like, I don't know. The worst is like, sometimes you think, oh, maybe it's like somewhere in the store,

Chris: 32:19

Yeah. You just

Melissa: 32:20

not where it's supposed to be. You know?

Chris: 32:25

keep looking and looking or it'll say like, we have one left. You're like, oh good. They have one left. Well guess what? Their, their inventory count's probably wrong.

Melissa: 32:35

or someone took that one

Chris: 32:37

yeah.

Melissa: 32:38

buy it and then put it in some random place in the store and nobody's ever gonna find it.

Chris: 32:42

Exactly exactly. It's sitting in like the returns cart somewhere, you know, they gotta put it away and it's like, ah, George will get that tonight at 11 o'clock. He'll put that away.

Melissa: 32:52

Yeah. Especially when you go to a specific store just for one item and then it's

Chris: 32:58

yes. Yes, exactly. Ah, totally, totally. That's this has happened to me with home.

Melissa: 33:05

Uhhuh. Yeah.

Chris: 33:07

you know, or, you know, same could happen to Lowe's or ACE or any of these kinds of hardware stores where, you know, it's like, oh man, I didn't realize I'm working on this project. And maybe it, the worst is like when it's water related and like you have no water, he had to shut off waters to, to do some plumbing.

Melissa: 33:22

Oh yeah. When it's like time critical to get

Chris: 33:25

yeah. And it's like, if I don't fix this, we ain't got no water.

Melissa: 33:31

yeah, hate it.

Chris: 33:33

That is painful. I'm sorry, you experienced that recently, I assume.

Melissa: 33:36

Oh, I experience that probably every week,

Chris: 33:39

Oh my gosh.

Melissa: 33:41

but, but not on like time critical things, most of the time.

Chris: 33:45

Yeah. Still that's that's that is no fun, no fun at all.

Melissa: 33:50

An ask for our listeners. If you have any topics that you would like us to cover, then definitely reach out to us.

Chris: 34:00

I mean, we are digging deep. Now talk about panelization. This is . This is deep. Yeah, absolutely. Please reach out to us any, if, if you're, you know, I, I feel like if you've listened to 54 episodes at this point you know, that we could probably talk about just about

Melissa: 34:16

oh yeah.

Chris: 34:18

you wanna know about the, how to, how to build the perfect Turkey sandwich. We I'm sure we can.

Melissa: 34:24

Well, preferably electronics related, but

Chris: 34:26

okay. Okay.

Melissa: 34:27

okay.

Chris: 34:28

Yeah. Oh, and we're officially, we're, we're officially internationally beloved. We have memes coming from Germany. We posted on our at,

Melissa: 34:38

Beer means. Hello? Yep.

Chris: 34:42

Cat cat. It was a cat meme. Let's be honest. It was a cat meme about beer

Melissa: 34:46

Okay. Okay. But not electronics.

Chris: 34:49

And if you wanna see that meme, you gotta follow at w assembly and then and then you'll be able to see it there. So with that, with that being said, that's a good segue. Please reach out to us, let us know episodes you want to hear reach out to us at w assembly at circuit. And of course you can always email us contact at pick place, podcast.com and yeah, let us know what you wanna hear. And please, any questions, anything we can answer happy to do. So please reach out to us.

Melissa: 35:15

Thanks for listening to the pick place podcast. If you like, what you heard consider following us in your favorite podcast app, and please leave us review on apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast from.

Chris: 35:28

Thanks everybody.