Hard Men Podcast
Hard Men Podcast
Ultra Endurance: 100-Mile Runs, Voluntary Hardship, & Forging Men with Tate Taylor
What drives someone to run 100 miles through the rugged terrain of the Sierra Nevada mountains? Discover the extraordinary story of Gordy Ainsleigh, whose determination transformed the Tevis Cup horse race into the legendary Western States Endurance Run. This episode takes you back to the origins of ultra-endurance running, tracing its evolution and celebrating the relentless spirit of the athletes who dare to push their physical and mental limits.
We'll talk with Tate Taylor, native Texan and Ogden transplant, about his running of the Hoka Bandera 100K several times, including his personal best 14-hour finish time. From rigorous training regimens and navigating the challenging Bandera landscape to the profound emotional highs and lows of race day, this story offers a unique perspective on the world of ultra-endurance sports.
Tate and I will explore the intersection of physical discipline and spiritual growth, emphasizing the importance of holistic well-being and building a community for disciplined, perseverant Christian men.
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Speaker 2:In recent years, endurance sport has seen the popularization of the ultra marathon. Not content with the challenge of 26.2 miles or less, trail runners in particular have started reaching further, pushing the boundaries of the human body in the arena of perseverance, by taking on foot races beyond the 200 mile mark. The first organized ultra marathon races began in the 1920s in South Africa, but the sport of ultra endurance really took off half a century ago in the dust and sweat of the Sierra Nevada mountains. Not with a foot race, but with a horse race. The race, which continues to this day, is called the Tevis Cup, a savage 100-mile endurance horse race conceived by Wendell Robbie in 1955. Robbie was what you might call a hard man, the kind who believed that a person's worth was measured by their ability to endure pain, hardship and challenge. The Tevis Cup was his brainchild, a grueling race through the rugged terrain of the Sierra Nevadas. The race was designed to test the limits of both horse and rider. It quickly gained reputation as one of the most challenging endurance events in the world. Finishing the Tevis Cup on horseback was a badge of honor, a testament to a rider's toughness and ability to push his horse to the limit. But one man was about to take it a step further.
Speaker 2:In 1971 and 72, gordy Ainsley, an Air Force, veteran of the Korea and Vietnam Wars, a farrier by trade and an endurance rider by passion, competed in the Tevis Cup on horseback. But in 1973, his horse came up lame in the first 30 miles of the race, forcing Ainsley to withdraw. Most men would simply take the loss and hope for better luck next year. Ainsley wasn't most men. He started to consider whether he really needed a horse to run the race in the first place. In 1974, 50 years ago to the month, gordy Ainsley towed the start line of the Tevis Cup as the only participant not on horseback. His plan was to do something no one had ever done before run the entire 100 miles from Squaw Valley to Auburn, california, within the 24-hour limit set for the horse race Stated beforehand. It is probably a universal opinion that it is beyond the power of human endurance to span the 100 miles of this rough mountainous trail on foot in a period of 24 hours, but Gordy will probably make one or two of the controlled stations within the operational schedule.
Speaker 2:When the race began, ainsley wasn't chasing glory or fame. In fact, no one for years would take much notice of what he had done. He approached the start line early to avoid horse traffic on as much of the single-track trail as he could. He said Well, I guess I'll be going to the staff manning the start line. To which they replied Well, good luck, gordy. As he disappeared into the pre-dawn darkness, he recalled later it was like nobody knew it was happening.
Speaker 2:The trail was brutal. Ainsley battled the 100 plus degree heat, the relentless climbs and even more devastating descents. He pushed through exhaustion, dehydration and pain that only someone who's been on their feet for hours in the mountains can understand. Along the way, he was met with amazement from riders and spectators alike. People thought he had lost his mind. They weren't entirely wrong. At one point in the race Ainsley was so exhausted he had committed to quitting at the next checkpoint, only to arrive and find his sister there with water, salt tablets and plenty of encouragement. Thirty minutes later he was back on the trail. As the day turned to night, ainsley kept going by the light of the moon and then, in the final miles, was led by a guide horse. 23 hours and 42 minutes after he began, gordy Ainsley crossed the finish line in Auburn among the horses and riders limping, to make the 24-hour cutoff, he had just accomplished a feat that would change the trajectory of endurance running forever.
Speaker 2:It took a few years, but by 1976, a few others had been convinced to follow in Ainsley's footsteps. And in 1977, the Western States Endurance Run was born. 14 men took on the challenge and only three crossed the finish line. But it was clear this wasn't just some fad. It was the start of something big.
Speaker 2:As the years passed, the Western States grew, interacting more and more competitors who were hungry to test their limits against one of the most punishing courses in the world. This wasn't just a race anymore. It was a battle, a rite of passage for those willing to sacrifice blood, sweat and tears to prove that they had what it took. The race organizers embraced this evolution. They established qualification standards limiting the field to those who had already proven their mettle in other races. The course remained as brutal as ever and the ethos of the race, the demand for total commitment and utter perseverance, remained unchanged. The Western SACE 100 quickly became a proving ground for the best ultrarunners in the world. Records were set and broken. Legends were made, and the race earned its reputation as the granddaddy of all ultramarathons. For many, simply finishing the race became a badge of honor, a symbol of endurance and toughness that could never be taken away.
Speaker 2:The race continues to embody the raw, unbridled human spirit.
Speaker 2:It's about pushing past the pain, the exhaustion and the voice in your head that tells you to quit.
Speaker 2:It's about stepping up to the starting line and knowing that the next 100 miles are going to hurt like hell, and then taking off at the starting gun anyways. The incredible perseverance of Gordy Ainsley and the birth of the Western States 100 is, in some respect, a novel advancement within a niche sport, but in another way, it is the continuation of the age-old desire for humans, and men in particular, to push the boundaries of their capability. We have always been hardwired to test the limits of endurance. How far can we push the human body? It's a bit like the question why do you climb the mountain? To which virtually every famous mountaineer has answered because it is there. Many people will ask why we do it, why we run until we throw up or until the blisters bleed through our shoes. One answer to that question is this because the best blades are those that spent the most time under the hammer, and the willing pursuit of difficult tasks produces an undeniable tempering in a man.
Speaker 1:Well, welcome to this episode of the Hardman Podcast. I'm your host, eric Kahn, and joined today by the one and only the Texan Doesn't have cowboy boots on shockingly, I'm the only guy in the room without cowboy boots on Tate Taylor.
Speaker 1:I've got my. I just got my Takovas, and this is sort of like a rite of passage. In the basement here in Ogden I've noticed that Everybody just keeps upping the game. Dan got some ostrich boots and so I thought well, I gotta be one of the guys. So I just got mine and, uh, tate, uh, a Texas original to Cova. Do you even own a pair of?
Speaker 2:ostrich boots? I don't have any ostrich boots, I have some Caymans, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, that's actually a step up. I wanted the Caymans, but I looked at the price and I was like nah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, shout out to my dad, he actually bought. That was what he got me for a wedding present was boots to wear in my wedding.
Speaker 1:Dude Right on. I mean we're kind of giving the throwback. This is a little bit of, I feel like maybe bringing some of the energy from the bar. Taylor talks, If anybody's caught that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kudos to them. Yeah, shout out to those guys, whoever they are, whoever they are.
Speaker 1:Uh, tate, it's good to have you on the show. Of course, we're going to be talking in this episode about this, this masculine urge of pursuing endurance sports. I was thinking about it as we were preparing. This really is one of those things. You look at explorers, you look at adventurers Christopher Columbus, Cortez Pizarro, just any of the things that the great Western empires of the world have produced, things like Sir Edmund Hillary wanting to summit Everest. There is really just something about it. I'm sure you've got this over the years. I used to. When I was doing triathlon. People would say I don't understand. Yeah, why in the world would you want to push your body to that extent? So I just want to hear from you what is it? I mean, you've been, we'll get into this. You've been doing some of these ultra marathon style trail races. Uh, what was it that got you into that?
Speaker 2:originally. Well, to answer that, I'll try not to tell my entire life story, but it really does become part of who you are yeah it kind of does and then you know, obviously proceed to tell entire life story there.
Speaker 2:But my dad actually raced cross country mountain bikes when I was growing up. So Central Texas he was, he was one of the better novice racers in the state when I was little and so we spent a lot of time in camping tents, you know, on the weekends watching him race, and he spent a lot of time in the garage or in or in his bedroom on a trainer on a mountain bike and so I've been around it for a long time. The race that I've done the last three years he actually helped convince my uncle to go do originally and then I went down there with him to to kind of crew him and help him along.
Speaker 1:I just have to interject. That is one thing about all these. Any physical fitness endeavor, right, there's gotta be some like masculine peer urging a little bit of like. I bet you couldn't do that, right? I mean, you look at, even like, the power lifting, some of the lifting you guys have been doing here in Ogden. I mean, I've watched those videos on Instagram and I'm like, well, I'm not going to be showed up by those guys, so maybe you hit the gym a little harder but I mean, that's one of the good features of masculine friendship.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, masculine camaraderie is extremely effective. Yeah, but you're absolutely right, I don't think there are a handful of guys out there that that are just born with this drive to go do that, but most are not. And I'm, I'm not, I was. I was very timid as a kid. I was very quiet. I remember him making me order, but what I figured out was that physical stuff actually lends to that.
Speaker 2:And so in some sense you have to think you can do something and consider maybe I'm actually capable of that. But until you actually go do it, you can't walk around with the badge of honor and the confidence that comes from having completed the task, right, right. So I think this, in particular the ultra running thing and lifting weights and all of the fitness stuff has, but in particular the ultra running thing has been a replacement for me for a lot of the sports that I played growing up. Right, I played really small town Texas football.
Speaker 1:Cause you get to a point where you know you're in your thirties. It's like, well, I can't really like join the high school football team.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and that would be ridiculous. Like, yeah, can't do that, but I need something. But you need some sort of outlet, that some sort of a competitive edge, some sort of a test that really challenges you and makes you a little nervous, gives you those tingles in your stomach before the gun goes off, kind of thing, and I just hadn't had that since playing sports. So it was my uncle actually my mom's brother that convinced me originally to go down and run. The race is called the Hoka, sponsored by Hoka Shoes Bandera. It's put on by Tejas Trails and it's a 100K race.
Speaker 2:So the reason I wanted to talk about 100K is 60 something miles, 62 miles Wow yeah, 60 something miles. 60, 62 miles Wow yeah. So, uh, 62 mile foot race and it's in the hill country state natural area in central Texas, close to San Antonio, and there's just so much heritage about the area to uh. Band era is a tiny little town of like 1500 people, but their claim to fame is they are the cowboy capital of the world. Really, yeah, the main street's really cool. There's just a. There's just this really cool old Western feel to the place and none of the people that live there care anything about this race.
Speaker 1:I bet not.
Speaker 2:They don't have any idea. They're like once a year in early January, all these people in trail running shoes show up to drink beer. And where did they come from? Why are you here? And then you tell them and um they, they do exactly what you just said a minute ago. They're like why on earth would you want to do that?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. And um so so how long ago you and your uncle did the first one together.
Speaker 2:So he's been doing it for going on 15 years now. Oh, wow, I think this will be his 14th year going down there. Um, I've done it with him the last three years. Okay, he finally convinced me to do it three years ago and so, uh, he wrote me a training plan and I ran constantly, basically for for eight months to get ready for it, cause I'd never I'd never done anything like this. Yeah, I did very little cross country stuff. I just never really been into endurance sports. Everything that I've ever competed in has been a lot more strength and power, short burst speed focused, and so the endurance stuff was kind of brand new for me anyway. So I was sort of obsessed with getting ready for it and then went down there and, just through a cool turn of events, actually ended up being able to finish the race with my uncle. So that was really really cool, and then I was sort of. I've been kind of hooked from there. So talk to me about the first race.
Speaker 1:First of all, how long did it take you to finish?
Speaker 2:The first year that we did it, it took us, or the first year that I did it, I should say it took us just under 16 hours. I think it was 15 hours 55 minutes.
Speaker 1:That's insane.
Speaker 2:Are you starting like in the afternoon, so you start early in the morning? Okay, they tend to do staggered starts because there are people there that are actually there to try to win this race in order to get a golden ticket to the Western States 100.
Speaker 1:So if you win that race, is it like only the first place finisher?
Speaker 2:I believe it's the first and second place finisher only that get automatic golden tickets to go compete at Western States. Wow, which is such a big deal now that it they can't just do a regular online signup. There would be 10, like there'd be 10,000 people trying to.
Speaker 1:I mean in the ultra world, it's, it's. It seems a bit like getting into the Boston marathon. It is similar, it's very hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the. The two biggest races at this point in the ultra endurance world are the Western States 100 and then UTMB, which is in Europe, in Europe, yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, so first race. Uh, just, I guess, tell me the story. How did you, you know you start? How did everything go? Was it what you thought?
Speaker 2:Yes and no, it's. It's a strange thing. I lived in a place in East Texas where there's not a ton of hills to practice on and so I ran a lot on just County roads and back roads, blacktop that kind of thing. But this is pretty hilly Bandera is. There's very little of it. That's flat, really it's. It's not a ton of elevation. It's not like here in Ogden where you have 10,000 foot peaks but it's just. Everything is either up or down and it's all rocks. So you actually run on old mule trails. Really. Yeah, it's very reminiscent, like if you, if you read any history about the Comanche Wars yeah, this is, this is the quintessential, this is exactly what you picture in your mind. Is this landscape where there's just slot canyons, little draws and just tons of places for for you to disappear and just you know? Like if you knew the land well. This is why the comanches are so hard to beat. They would just disappear into the landscape and nobody could catch them have you read?
Speaker 2:by the way, uh, empire of the summer moon, I'm about halfway through it right, okay.
Speaker 1:So sd gwynn great, fascinating book. Yeah, it's kind of you know texas rangers, but you, you kind of get the feel for what the original concept of like being texas tough, yes, I mean they. They had to endure some incredible hardships.
Speaker 2:Yeah jack, coffee hayes, rip ford some of these first guys that really were effective in fighting the comanches. They were operating in this part of the world. So when you're out there running and it gets dark and it's just you and a headlamp and just cactus and rocks, for as far as you can see, it does have this feeling like you've returned to an earlier time in our history. Yeah, which is really cool. And you, you also get to taste a little bit of what that difficulty must have been like to just you know, know, camp cold on the ground, always have a pistol in your, in your hip pocket and, you know, always on alert. There's no rest. It does, it does draw your mind back to that a little bit, and then you, it reminds you that the pain that you're feeling is probably not that bad Actually it's probably not as bad, not bad at all.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. So you start what, what? What are like high temps during the day?
Speaker 2:Texas is really weird. So you start what, what? What are like high temps during the day. Texas is really weird. If you're, if you're from the area, you already know this. But to give an example, last year, uh, we, the big race runs on Saturday, and then there's a 25 and a 50 K on Sunday, and they run them like that every year. And so the a hundred Ks run on Saturday and we took off and I think the high was somewhere around 68, 71, somewhere in there, and then the lows will be in the thirties.
Speaker 2:Wow. So when it gets dark, it gets cold, you're getting chilled, you're getting pretty chilly. The thing is, what time of year is that? The beginning of January? Okay, it's typically the first weekend in January, and this past year, overnight there was a northern that blew in, and when we woke up on Saturday morning for those guys to run it was in the teens and the wind chill was brutal. So they were, I mean my, my buddy. I had several buddies actually, but a few of my buddies were running the 25 K and they were coming into aid stations with their beards just iced over from breathing on their, you know, their mustache is just completely ice, you know. So it gets, it gets cold.
Speaker 1:So when you start you kind of have legs of the race right when there's aid stations. You start off. You feel pretty good the first time around.
Speaker 2:It's interesting. You take off. There's in this particular race, there's an aid station every five or six miles. Okay, and so you, in your head, you're really trying to compartmentalize, compartmentalize.
Speaker 2:I just got to get to the next one. I just got to get to that next aid station is what you're focused on because of the Hills and because of the fact that I we talked about this briefly in in the cold open. But the downhills actually end up being the thing that get you. Your lungs can recover pretty quickly from going uphill and that concentric movement of pushing you up the hill is is brutal in the moment but you recover from it pretty quickly. Going down doesn't go away because you're lowering weight and you're catching yourself and it's jarring and then cramps and stuff start setting in.
Speaker 1:So even the switch, anybody who's done, even like trekking or mountaineering or any of this stuff. Hiking, going up, you're using different muscles, a lot of butt muscle. Your calves are burning. Then coming down, it's like punishing your quads.
Speaker 2:Yes, the knees. Those patellar tendons on the front of your knees are just. You know it just feels like something's wrong.
Speaker 2:So you feel pretty good at the beginning. You feel good at the beginning, especially if you come in healthy and prepared. You feel good for the first 10 miles and things are fine. But almost without fail and I've talked to my uncle about this as well and he's been doing it a lot longer than I have he was like, yeah, there's just something about that terrain there that around the 15 to 20 mile mark, your legs go. This seems like a bad idea. You should probably stop and the way that they do that is is cramping up pretty good.
Speaker 2:So this year I was. I was trying to move quite a bit faster and starting around mile 16, I started with some quad cramps and what'll happen is, as the terrain changes, those cramps just kind of move around your legs and I just couldn't get them to stop. It got pretty sunny during the during the day, not hot but, um, warm enough where you're sweating more than you want to be. And uh, yeah, I cramped for about 20 miles this year and finally your body will kind of give up and go okay, fine, go ahead and that stuff will go away.
Speaker 2:But so the first 20 you're cramping, yeah For for the like, like the mid 20. So from 15 to like 36 this year I was not feeling great as far as my legs went and that's different than your stomach or your head or anything else but legs didn't feel great, um, but was still moving fine and I knew I can slow down and this will still hurt, or I can just keep going and wait for it to stop.
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Speaker 2:pace, wise across 60 some miles. It's a good question. If you can get close to the 13 hour mark in a hundred K in in terrain like that, you're moving pretty darn fast. That's, that's really solid, especially with that many aid stations Most people are. If they're elite, they're moving pretty darn fast. That's, that's really solid, especially with that many aid stations Most people are. If they're elite, they're stopping every other aid station and blowing through the others. Or if you're, if you're trying to get a Western States ticket, you're. You're not stopping at aid stations, they're running eight minute pace for 62. The whole time, the whole time, and it doesn't and there's parts of this Western States.
Speaker 1:Was that a hundred mile or a hundred K? A hundred mile, a hundred mile.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, they're getting, they're getting ready for that and they're trying to qualify for it, and so they have a crew that is at each state, each aid station, waiting for them to show up with bottles and and nutrition on hand, and they will have someone meet them 20 yards outside the aid station and run with them through the aid station as they hand stuff off, so that they don't have to stop, so they can keep going. Yeah, they're flying.
Speaker 1:Okay, so your first race. I'm curious at what point does it start to get miserable?
Speaker 2:It's really interesting. It depends on the day, it depends on the race. Sometimes it gets miserable really quick and then it goes away later Really, and then other times it you feel great the whole day and then all of a sudden in the last 10 miles miles you feel like death, and so it's very strange. There's a documentary on the Leadville 100 called life in a day, and it's it's a quote, a quote from one of the people that has been doing that for a long time, one of the originals that ran it to try to revitalize the economy there in Leadville and stuff. Cool story.
Speaker 2:But she basically says that running 100 miles is like living life in a day. An entire lifetime is compressed into those hours that you're on the trail and you get to experience all of the different emotions, the ups and downs, the difficulty, the elation, the everything that you can think of is sort of compressed and put all into this one short space of time. And there's this roller coaster that you're on emotionally and mentally kind of trying to deal with whatever comes up. And then when you finally do deal with it and you suddenly feel good at mile 40, there's no better feeling in the world. You're like I'm literally Superman, I can do anything, but it just comes and goes. It depends on, depends on the race.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned some of the challenges. You've got the mental you've you've got to deal with nutrition. When I was doing triathlons, one of the things that shocked me, I guess, was I had assumed like, okay, I'm going to go for a 20 mile bike ride and a 10 mile run. I thought, okay, afterwards I'm going to be starving. I actually dealt a lot of times with nausea, with all these different factors where it's like I get done. I'm like I had to force feed myself. Yeah, sometimes it was like that with liquids too. Your body does some pretty interesting things. My question for you is walk me through kind of like the strategy for nutrition on the race, like what are you eating? Are you trying to get certain amounts of fluids? What are you carrying with you versus what's in an aid station?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good question and you're right, this is another saying in the ultra community is that these races are actually eating competitions, really. Yeah, because most people can't run. You can run on no fuel for a while and you know you'll use up the glycogen in your muscles and then you'll start burning some fat, but eventually your body's just going to go hey, we're not doing this anymore until you feed me. And so, um, a good rule of thumb for races like this is to try to replace two thirds of the calories that you're burning per hour. Two thirds per hour, that's a lot of calories, a lot of calories depending on the person having something that can kind of be a. You know they're not going to be perfectly accurate, but figuring out roughly what you're going to burn in calories per hour while you're moving is a good metric, and then what you're trying to do is replace two thirds of that, if possible.
Speaker 2:What I have figured out for me personally and my uncle's, similar to this is that there's a lot of stuff out there supplements, goos, chews, like all of these different things that are supposed to be shots of calories that you can consume really easily. They just don't work for me. I like real food. You know I I actually at at mile 35 this past year I had half a cheeseburger, really yeah, cause I was just like I'm actually just hungry, like I want a meal, something that tastes like real food. So yeah, for example, my uncle has been running a hundred miler out in West Virginia, uh, at the new river gorge, for the last several years. His buddy puts on the race and what he's figured out is that the thing that works for him is instant mashed potatoes and cubed up steak.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:He's eating. He's eating mashed potatoes and steak all day long, while he's running a hundred miles, and that I mean that's what your body wants.
Speaker 1:So do you? Do you have to like prepare that stuff and have people leave it at the stations for you?
Speaker 2:The thing to do is to do it yourself. It's great having a crew. My wife is outstanding. She never misses an aid station. She's there every single time, even with both kids, and like driving to the next aid station, she does. Yes, most of them are drivable. At the race that we go to there in Texas there's one that you have to walk a little distance, but nonetheless she's always there.
Speaker 2:Okay and um, it's really helpful. They have water, they have supplements and fruit, peanut butter, jelly sandwiches, things like that. They're at the aid station for you, which is something that the race race director, actually, you know, has on course for you. But I really like beef jerky, I really like dried fruit and I really like just plain old pretzels. Really, yeah, I eat. I probably eat an entire bag of pretzels in one day. Well, you probably need the sodium too. You need the salt. The salt is great. You can. You can be deficient in some things pretty quickly. Usually it's sugar or salt and so, um, those things are really, really helpful. Being able to get some quick carbs that are easy to digest with some salt on it is really helpful.
Speaker 1:I'm curious did you have points along the way where you're like I can't eat, or nausea?
Speaker 2:No. So this is. I think this is actually the reason that I enjoy these, because I can. I can focus on the just kind of the bodily misery, like your legs cramping or you know you just being tired or whatever it is. But a lot of people have digestive issues during a race that long, their stomachs eventually just revolt and go. I'm not eating anything else, like I'm not doing this today.
Speaker 2:This is actually why I was able to finish with my uncle the first year that I went. He's way faster than me. He left me in the first 12 miles and he's almost 50 years old. But he just ran off and left me and I was like I'm probably not going to see him again. And uh, I actually caught up to him with 10 miles to go in the race because his stomach had just turned and for the past two hours he couldn't eat anything. He just couldn't convince himself to eat. And he got to this aid station it's actually in a horse barn at uh at mile 52. It's really, really cool. But he was sitting there with a blanket around him and he was eating hot soup from the aid station trying to get some calories in, and you could just tell like his face was just white and he just felt terrible. Oh and uh, anyways, I I rolled in right before he was going to roll out. He said hi to me, kind of gave me some encouragement, and then he was like I'll probably see you soon. He was like I'm I'm not moving very fast, and so you could tell he was like I'm just going to get this done and he left.
Speaker 2:You know, I took a minute in the aid station, got some food. They had a. It had instant mashed potatoes and bacon and is the best thing you've ever eaten in your whole life. Um, at mile 52, at mile 50. Yeah, it's a different thing. But I took off from the aid station and caught him 200 meters later. He had made it 200 meters and he was leaned against the little scrub brush Cedar tree and was just vomiting into the bushes. Oh, just projectile. And so I didn't have anyone else to go catch, like I was just trying to get it done too I'd never done it before and so I just stopped and waited on him and, uh, kind of talked to him for a minute. He, I'd never done it before, and so I just stopped and waited on him and kind of talked to him for a minute.
Speaker 1:He finally got done throwing up and stood up and he was like, if you weren't standing here, I'd probably just walk back to that aid station. That's where your masculine friendship comes into play.
Speaker 2:Camaraderie Exactly, and so we took off walking. You know we're just trying to keep a decent walking pace and you know, real quiet at first. He's the kind of guy that can like talk at the top of his lungs and blow snot rockets the entire time he's running. He'll like be hollering over his shoulder while we're moving at a pace that's really uncomfortable for me. It's, it's almost annoying.
Speaker 2:So, he was really quiet and I could tell he wasn't feeling good, and then, gradually, the pace of our walk kind of started picking up. He started talking a little bit more and, before you know it, he's running faster than I really want to run with 10 miles left to go in this race, and uh, we ended up finishing it together, which was really cool, but I only caught him cause his stomach flipped over on him. That's crazy Cool. You got to finish together, though it was really awesome.
Speaker 1:I guess in that race, the worst part, what would have been the worst part for you?
Speaker 2:The most painful thing for me is uh, is my feet Really? Yeah, just because there's no part of it that's really like a groomed trail, you're just on rocks. So all day there's just these tiny little rocks that are punching you in the feet and then they end up getting in your shoes and you got little pebbles in your shoes and you don't want to stop every five minutes to get those things out. You want to get this thing done and so your feet are just it's like tenderized meat by the end of it Kind of a thing. Are you getting like blisters and stuff? I don't. I've never really dealt with blisters very badly. Some people do. Some people have to really be serious about their blister Taping up stuff. Yeah, I've never had that issue. Mine tends to be more like impact stuff and so typically for the last 15 miles or so it feels like you're walking on hot coals and it actually feels better to run because walking just feels terrible on your feet. But it's, it's a double-edged sword. The worst part is being entirely alone in the dark and knowing that if you don't move fast enough you're going to get cold, but also you're so exhausted that moving fast also sounds terrible and the world sort of shrinks down to the size of your headlamp beam hitting the ground in front of you yeah and it's uh, it's extremely isolating mentally to just
Speaker 2:kind of battle through that and feel like it's almost. It's like Gordy Ainsley said that when he took off on the run it was like almost like nobody even knew what was going on. You sort of get to that point in the race where it's just dark, you're in the middle of nowhere, there's no cell phone service and you're just trying to get to the next aid station and you're, you're kind of going. How much longer could it honestly be to get to this next spot? You know it's just the. The mind games of that are probably the most difficult, but they're also the most rewarding part of it too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting. Uh, when I ask you about the mental because I mean the the most I've ever done is a half marathon and I would say the mental on those really I didn't think was that bad uh, most people say obviously the marathon's harder, but we're talking about 62 miles, not 26. I'm just curious, what are you doing mentally? What is that like going through the race? How were you able to push through? Like you said?
Speaker 1:I remember I think it's a Crowey Alexander, he was a I think he still does it to some extent but triathlon Australian guy really good, but he's. They said, what's the secret to, you know, doing well in a triathlon? He said you have to learn how to embrace the suck. Because, he said, no matter how trained you are, no matter how good you are, at the end of the day you just have to deal with pain and you just have to learn how to be okay with that and just keep pushing. So I'm curious, like mentally, um, I'm sure it changes throughout the race. There's, like you said, highs and lows. How are you dealing with the mental aspect of having to run for 16 hours across 62 miles To begin?
Speaker 2:with you don't think about the entire thing. You break it into really small pieces that are manageable and you go. Well, I know I can run five miles to the first aid station. All I got to do is run to the first aid station, then I'll get to see some other people again and grab some food, and so a big part of it is compartmentalization, breaking things down into manageable pieces. But the other part is competitive in a way, but it's competitive against not necessarily the other people that are there. That's helpful, having having a rabbit to chase is good but it's more competitive against the version of you that would shirk and and flinch away from doing hard things like this and knowing that that part of you does exist and it's in there, and then realizing that it's going to raise its head periodically throughout this whole thing the part of you that wants to fold and cower and just quit and go. It would be a lot more comfortable if I just stopped.
Speaker 2:You think about the stories that are told about guys like Gordy Ainsley or or whoever, and there's never any good stories about a dude that's just like folds and quits right. It's always about some guy that does some audacious, ridiculous thing and and then just decides, just through sheer willpower, that he's going to get it done. And and knowing that he went through that same stuff, he gets to an aid station and he's like I'm about to be done. And then there's one person there that goes hey, I think you got this. Here's some water, here's some salt. You look a little dehydrated. Why don't you, why don't you just see if you can make it to the next checkpoint?
Speaker 1:Did you ever hit a point where you felt like I don't know if delirious is the right word, but just out of it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of funny. My wife has taken videos of me sitting because you know we have a group of people that are going to do this and so not everyone's finishing at the same time. And if you can get warmed up at the finish and get sat down and sort of get momentarily comfortable, you want to sit and wait and see your guys finish and, you know, congratulate them and watch them get a buckle and all that stuff. But the conversations that are had when you're sitting at the finish are nonsensical. I mean that we will. We'll say the same thing out of it. Yeah, you say the same thing six times, ask the same question over and over again and you're like dude, we just told you that when you came through there you had those shoes on, not those shoes he's like man I should have. And you know you're constantly. Just your brain just kind of is run out of juice.
Speaker 1:I'm sure it's exhausted mentally.
Speaker 2:Yes, and because not because you know forcing yourself to run is that difficult, it's more the mental aspect of battling with yourself and that internal conversation for that long. And then you get done. And it's really interesting when you get close to the finish. Your body and your because your mind knows I'm almost there Everything that's been holding back the the true extent to pain that you're in, because it's not sure how much further we really have to do this, and so let's not talk about it now, let's just get to the next spot. It knows that the finish is right there, and so everything else finally breathes a sigh of relief, and then everything feels so much worse, like it just feels terrible.
Speaker 2:And, um, and your brain's doing the same thing, where you're like I just need to run, I just need to run, I just need to run. But then you walk for 50 steps going, I just need to run, I just need to run, I just need to run. But then you walk for 50 steps going, I just need to run, I just need to run, I just need to run. And you're like you're doing that for so long throughout the day that by the time you get to the finish, your brain's like, okay, good, we got that done. Like time to go to sleep, time to get some rest. I don't want to fight anymore. And so then people are asking you questions and kind of conversating with you, and you're just out of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, yeah. Well, it's crazy with the mental, because I've had weird moments in races Again. I only ever did the half marathon, but I remember one in Louisville where it was super hot and these are sort of like the unexpected things that test you mentally. It was super hot, so along the course they opened fire hydrants and I was like, oh, it's going to feel so good to like get wet and cool off. And so I'm at like mile eight and I run through a fire hydrant and then about I don't know two minutes later I realized the chafing that is going to result from being soaking wet and it was just misery. But it was one of those things where it just like you have to have a steel trap for mine, because you're like, how am I going to deal with this? I didn't expect that to be the case.
Speaker 1:It was a record year for heat. I think it was like 82 degrees and it's just something that was thrown at you. It's a, it's a wrench in the gear and you got to figure out how to adjust to it. It's a, it's a wrench in the gear and you got to figure out how to adjust to it. I think it's that same race. I got to like mile 11 and we're finishing and, um, the race will split. So the full marathon, guys go right, you go left and you're, you're down the home stretch and it's actually really mentally messes with you because you're like, oh, I'm almost done, but you really have like three and a half miles to go and those are kind of tough miles, especially I'm doing 13, but I'm like trying to push it at 730, seven minute pace somewhere in there. And I get to the fork and this like 86 year old man who probably has a bad hip he blows by me like I'm standing still and I'm like, well, he's probably been doing this for a long time. And then I see him go right for the full marathon and I don't know why tape, but it messed with me. Yeah, I was like I just having like this mental wrestling match with myself and you got to, you got to regroup and get together, get it together and finish, but I was like it was those sorts of things where you don't expect, yeah, uh, but again it really will test you and push you.
Speaker 1:I was coming down the home stretch and I had my beard and I'm running and and I'm like, how am I going to finish this and they have the crowd there and people are yelling Like they're like, chanting, like go beard, go beard, and I felt like at that moment. So I went from like the old man incident. I was just like at this low, like how am I going to finish? This guy just blew me by like I suck, you know whatever, and then they start chanting the beard and then I start running way too hard. Yeah, but it was. It was interesting. I got to the finish line and I can only imagine 62 miles. That was one of the things I was most unprepared for, going from the heat of that race and how hot your body's burning, and then I got really cold just standing there and they would give you the heat blanket or whatever, but I was like it didn't help after 62. Do guys actually like well, they get like hypothermic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've, i've've, I've experienced this. Uh, I think it's probably pretty low level and it'll, for most people anyways. I know someone that actually has had pretty severe hypothermia running, running the race. But, yeah, your body goes into immediate relaxation and and, kind of as soon as you stop moving and generating your own heat, if you don't get some layers on quick, you're going to go into well I do anyways into full blown convulsions. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean it's and it's fast and uh, so we've got blankets and, you know, puffies and all that good stuff, right, and I'm, I'm in a T, a T-shirt and shorts, the entire race, you know. Come across the finish line it's 38 degrees, you know, and I'm fine. Five minutes later, oh, you're freezing, just shaking. Yeah, yeah, it's speaking of the, the split and that aspect of like it feels like you're almost there, but you actually got a few ways to go.
Speaker 2:The course at Bandera runs within about a quarter mile of the start finish with about two and a half miles to go and one of the biggest climbs in the entire race. So right before you head up towards that climb, that is just brutal. You run by and you can hear the cowbell and people screaming and the music and like everyone conversating there at the finish line and then you get kind of like, oh, I'm almost there, and then the trail just slowly, in the dark, just winds.
Speaker 1:It's horrible.
Speaker 2:Just it just out into the. That's cruel. And then you slowly the sound just fades away. Where y'all can hear is the wind again and it is the. It is exactly like that. It's this mental thing. That's just absolutely demoralizing. And and you kind of go through this low for a minute in until you convince yourself like, hey, you just got to go, go get this done, you know. But yeah, when you finish, things get sketchy pretty quick. Really.
Speaker 2:My first year I wasn't ready for it and went into full blown convulsions.
Speaker 2:I was shivering on the way back to the truck and we got in the truck and I was like turn the heater on, you know, and we drive about 10 minutes to where we stay in these cabins. And so once I got in the heat I was fine and I thought we were, we were good, like I was in pain, but I was excited because we finished and I was way more focused on the fact that the race got done and I got to finish with my uncle and all this cool stuff. And then I opened the truck door when we got to our cabin and the wind hit me and I couldn't get the door of the cabin open. Really. Yeah, my wife had to open the door for me because I couldn't keep my hands still enough and went inside and got in a hot shower to kind of like warm back up. Oh, yeah, yeah, you do you. You, your body tries to go hypothermic pretty quick after something like that. Your body tries to go hypothermic pretty quick after something like that.
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Speaker 2:Recovery is, for the most part, trying to move as much as you can.
Speaker 2:Because you don't want to just like sit on the couch. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of relaxation. I'm not going to act like you're. You know I'm getting on a rower or something the next day, but you're trying to go for walks, you're trying to get up, move around, you're trying to do a little bit of stretching here and there.
Speaker 2:I will say, the first time that I did this, the recovery took me. The recovery took me over a week, to the point where, if I tried to go do something and I thought that I felt okay you know, we ran this on Saturday finished late Saturday night. You know, the following Thursday, I thought, like well, I could do some upper body stuff in the gym and tried to go in and did a, tried to do a warmup set on bench press in immediate headache. Really, yeah, just like your body's going. No, like it's sending you these very hard signals. Like, yeah, just like your body's going. No, like it's sending you these very hard signals. Like, yeah, not yet bud. Like why don't you chill? And um.
Speaker 2:I will say, though, the the more I've done it, the faster the recovery is. It's funny you go back, um on Sunday morning to watch the rest of the racers race and so they're running the 25 K and the 50 and you want to get out there and kind of encourage them and you know you're getting out of the vehicle at aid stations and things like that and you can really easily spot everyone that ran the 100K the night before. Oh yeah, they walk. They're all walking around like they've been on horses for the last 20 days or something. Everybody's hurting. Oh my gosh, yeah, you're walking like you're 83 years old and that lasts for a little while, like getting in and out of vehicles. That kind of thing is painful for for a few days, but the more I've done it, the faster the recovery is gone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's great. One of the things I want to do with the show obviously not everybody is going to go run a hundred K, but one of the aims of the show is to encourage people to do hard things and to do them physically. One of the questions I have for you in our community reformed community there's sort of this. I've noticed it for years. I'm sure you probably have noticed it as well, but it's like anytime you have young guys and we're talking like 50 and under, anytime you have that and you have guys who are, like you know, posting about it, they're like, hey, I think in my mind, like we're trying to inspire other people, we're trying to encourage other people. I see you guys in the gym doing hard things here in Ogden. Right, that inspires me, like okay, I got to make sure I'm on top of my stuff and taking care of myself physically. And you and I both know if you want to be spiritually disciplined, if you want to thrive as a Christian man, you have to not be a Gnostic. You have to realize that your body is part of the equation, right, we're whole entities here, right, and so we value physical strength, fitness, to whatever level you want to pursue it.
Speaker 1:One of the things that's interesting, though, is the number of older, you know, like reform pastors, where it's like you have guys who are fat and overweight and they're knocking the young guys. Oh, you know, this is vanity. You guys are just obsessed with the physical. Well, you know, it's better than a strong body knowing Christ, and you're like, okay, and, and you know, part of it is like well, I feel like a lot of those older men are kind of reviling, and one of the things we do want to encourage young men don't revile in return, right, right, you know the okay boomer stuff, I get it, I get why it happens. Um, don't revile in return. But it does seem like we sort of have a problem in the reform camps where it's like we're all about cigars and beer yeah, which there's a place for that. We like our beer, yeah, and what is our? We recently had the walrus.
Speaker 2:What is that? That is a roadhouse brewing out of Jackson Hole, wyoming. Shout out to Steven Adams who turned me on to that. But the Walrus is, oh so good, really good.
Speaker 1:So we can enjoy those things too. But we're also in pursuit of physical strength. So I guess just an encouragement to young men and kind of what you're aiming at with addressing the physical, why do they need to pursue it? Why not just be a fat tub?
Speaker 2:right. Why is it not just the spiritual? Well, you mentioned that, your body's part of the equation. Joe Boot has some really good stuff on this the Gnostic mistake that we are making, and have been making for some time in the reform movement and sort of leaving our bodies out of the equation as if they're not important?
Speaker 2:which is a crazy thing to do. Christ lived a physical life and died a physical death. That's what the incarnation is. That's literally what he came and became a man on our behalf in order to suffer and die. And then we take the physical part of that and very much maximize it, which is absolutely righteous and right to do. But for some reason, with our own lives, we sort of want to do away with the, the possible ability to be righteous physically, which is which is a strange thing, because to think that you're going to have discipline, especially as a young man, in the world that we live in right now, where things like porn are literally at your fingertips and brothel in your pocket yeah, exactly. And and the fact that you're walking around with a, with an iPhone or whatever, and you need to be extremely disciplined about how you use that technology, what you do with your eyes, what you do with your tongue, your physical body or your physical body. But for some reason it wouldn't apply to provision and protection, it wouldn't apply to simply maximizing the gifts that you've been given. I mean, how about that? The very first I think we've.
Speaker 2:We talk, you guys talk a lot about this, but the parable of the talents and burying the talent that you've been given and then just going. Well, I didn't lose it. When you're asked how you did and did you make a return? And the very first gift that you're given in this life is a body, why would you not take it and use it to the nth degree so you can get out of it? And yeah, everyone's given different, like there are guys that are going to be 10 talent guys and they're going to be guys that are not. Some guys are more genetically gifted than others. There's no reason to take that and go. Well, I just shouldn't try at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting because even with the early church fathers they would address things like the seven deadly sins and how to address them. And it's interesting because at the top they put gluttony and fasting. And one of the things that they said was if you can't control your stomach, you won't be able to control anything else. And so you think about the physical body and you just think about our lives, where it's like, if I can't control what I put in my mouth, if I can't control my appetite, what are my spiritual disciplines going to be like? And then on on the reverse, what I found in my life if I prioritize, you know, strength training and some sort of cardio, I just put some sort of you know, three, four times a week, I'm going to, I'm going to lift, I'm going to discipline myself, I'm going to get up early, I'm going to do that. It's amazing because then I I find that I have momentum in my life to where now doing family worship every day isn't so difficult because I've mastered this other thing. I think it goes back to, like the Jordan Peterson, like you want to start.
Speaker 1:I don't actually think you can be super spiritually disciplined in the best and ultimate sense If you're disregarding your body. Think about to the way that, okay, that this whole system that God has given us in the human body, what you eat, is going to affect things like your blood sugar levels and it's going to affect your insulin and your digestive system. How much seed oils you're putting in your body is going to impact your hormones. Your hormones impact crazy things like how irritable are you? How does that affect your thinking, your capacity? So, for us in the basement, as pastors, we're thinking through okay, I'm almost 40. I want a long, you know, god willing, a long time of serving the kingdom, serving my people.
Speaker 1:Well, in order to bear the weight of stress and load, what, what do you need? You actually need a physically strong body. Yeah, there's the, the mental discipline that's involved with it, but I found it's like, well, if I'm consistently powerlifting, getting some cardio in, playing tennis with my son, just different things to get the body moving and the blood flowing, and then I'm watching what I eat, it's like, oh, you know, it's like I have more energy to bring to the counseling room. I have more energy to, you know, even things like preaching. Preaching is very physically demanding, particularly now in the church, where it's like if you preach on Sunday, you're preaching twice. That actually takes a physical, mental toll. And I would also go back to this too even for guys, you know, the spiritual and the intellectual in the reform camp can tend to be like set on a pillar.
Speaker 1:But it was interesting with Magnus Carlsen, probably the greatest chess player ever all time. One of the things he figured out pretty early on was if he wanted the mental capacity to go through these tournaments, well, he had to physically discipline his body. So he was like he was like lifting, like a you know, a war horse. I mean, this guy took it very seriously, took his diet seriously. I mean, this guy took it very seriously, took his diet seriously. Again, it's just this concept that if we're going to be that provider and protector for our family, yeah, being 60 to 100 pounds overweight is going to jeopardize our ability to do that.
Speaker 2:Right. I think one of the things that physical capacity and physical disciplining of your body, some of the main things that it does, are, first of all, give you perspective for what is actually difficult. I think that's one of the most. Not everyone needs to go run 100K, you're absolutely right, but if you can find whatever, it is that Maybe it's getting 10,000 steps a day.
Speaker 2:Maybe it is, maybe it's going for a 10 minute walk after every meal this week. Yeah, you know, start wherever it is that you are, but it gives you some perspective on what doing hard things actually feels like. And so then, when you do get in these situations that are not not difficult, but it does give you some perspective and you can go okay. Well, it's not that, it's not this other thing that I've done. That was actually extremely demanding Cause you're going to you can do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're going to hit times in your business with family relationships, pastoral ministry, whatever it is. You're going to hit points, just like in that, in that race, the a hundred K. You're going to hit points in your life where you say to yourself and your, your body and everything that you are is going to say I don't think I can do anymore, I think I'm tapped out. But if you have that switch that you've been training that habit in your mind where you say I can probably go harder than I think I can.
Speaker 2:It's really simple, yeah, but it teaches you how to try hard. Yeah, that's what it does.
Speaker 1:And I love this, especially for men. I think this was Andrew Huberman said this, but he said testosterone is the hormone that makes hard things feel good, Hard work feels good is what testosterone does.
Speaker 1:That's what it does for your cycle, so you look at a man and you think, if a woman has healthy testosterone levels because they do have testosterone too and it's vital, but a healthy woman's T will be, you know, 100, really high would be like two to 300. Most people are not going to have that. So around 100, 120, something like this, and a healthy man is like a thousand to 1200. So just think about how God made your body and he gave you that physical hormone. And then he's he's basically telling you through creation and through your nature, you were made for hard things. You were actually made again, doesn't have to be a hundred K, but you were made to push yourself and to be pushed. And I love what the Lord says to Israel when they come out of Egypt later in their history, he says I, I put you, I'm the wise father who disciplines my son. I put you through the iron furnace of Egypt. I did that to you. And so if you, if you're wise fathers too, I think the other thing is like we should be introducing hardship to our kids, and all the more so in an era of just comfort everywhere that you have to introduce hardship. It has to be a voluntary hardship Cause we talk about with Matt Reynolds all the time with with barbell logic and weightlifting, it is voluntary at this point in our human existence for most people, and so that would be my challenge to our listeners, for you, for your sons, what are you doing to introduce regular hardship that you have to overcome at some level? And I think the best, the best way I know to put it, without saying everybody has to run a hundred K, you need to be doing things physically that are pushing you and challenging you, yep, and you have to somehow get to that level.
Speaker 1:I remember Matt, you know I hit 300 pounds on deadlift and Matt was like, okay, we're, we're on a roll, we're going to make 400. And I remember thinking that's not, that's not possible. I barely did 300. Why are we talking about 400? And as a good weightlifting coach he's, you know, he knows that you're capable of more than you think you are. And then you get to 400 and I got to 425. And then it's like keep going, you can do more.
Speaker 1:And at 300, I actually didn't think that I could, but I was like this is such a good habit to be cultivating that I have regular things in my life. And this is the other thing I would say is guys not doing it alone? I mean, if it's on me just to wake up every day at four or five, whatever, to do my workout, I'm usually a night owl. So Matt will be like did you really just finish a workout at 1245? And I'm like, yeah, I'm sorry, dude, I did, but, but even that is is. It's a hard discipline because you're like I just want to crash on the couch and do nothing. And it's funny because my sons know that I work out, so, like my oldest Benjamin, he'll be like hey dad, I thought tonight was a workout night.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You need dudes in your life who are going to, who are going to hold you accountable and push you. And it's crazy, you know this, but if you go do a workout and you have buddies standing around watching you, oh it is not the same thing. I would wager it's like a 15 to 20% increase in what you'll do. Maybe more, it might be more, yeah, whereas if I'm by myself I'm like, well, nobody will really see, yeah, nobody will really know if I don't finish this.
Speaker 2:So I worked out this morning with Matt Mullins and he he has a job that he needs to get there pretty early, and so I don't have any reason to be working up super early right now, but he needs to be at the gym and rolling at five 30.
Speaker 2:Yep, and so I'm like, all right, I'm going to make sure he's not there working out alone. And uh, even if we're not doing the same thing, we try to show up at that time. And uh, we worked out. But we did work out together this morning, did the same workout and, yeah, the, the depths of pain that you'll go to because you just watch some other guy complete the set is totally different than what you would go to if it was just you there. And it's not that you aren't capable of pushing yourself. You might push pretty hard by yourself and you can learn how to do that. There's a there's a discipline there that can be sharpened and honed, but it's not the same thing as having another guy there in the room or even another guy who you know is doing the same workout across the country.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I think with Matt, you know you're you're filming your workout and you're sending him the last set. But even that is like well, if I don't do this, like and Matt's great Cause he's like I thought you were the hard man, like you didn't finish, like what's wrong with you, what's going?
Speaker 2:on. That's another thing about doing hard stuff is that what you're essentially doing is you're labeling yourself, and so from now on, I'm the kind of guy who. I'm the kind of guy that does X, y, z. And so then when people people who aren't involved at all see you grab a donut and they're like hey, I thought you were the dude that was like super into fitness. And you're like dang it.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh yeah, I am, they go. Well, I have this one to go hunting. I actually a lot of years we'll hunt in the past around Colorado Leadville area. I have a buddy who lives in string town, part of Leadville, and, uh, it's funny because we'll go hunt and we'll see an elk at like some just God awful Canyon and he's like, hey, you and your boys should go up there.
Speaker 1:And I was like I don't know man, like that is pretty brutal. And he'll look at me and he'll be like, don't you have like a podcast about like doing hard things? So it's like you're always being baited into it. You know which is good, it pushes you. I mean the boys, my middle son, we've gone on hikes. I remember one we did. I think we were like six miles deep and there's this. The end of the trail is this lake. But it's like you got to dive down into this crater lake area and I was like man, if I go down there, we're going to have to come back out. It's like raining. So we get to the point and I was like, ah, this is probably good. And he just looks at me and you know him. He's just like I thought you were a hard man, dad, and I was like, all right, shut up, let's go.
Speaker 2:He's not joking. No, he's not trying to be funny. No, he's dead serious.
Speaker 1:And you see it in your boys too, where they're like. We know that we're made to push ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's an ethos that you create that everyone goes all right, we're buying into this. This is who we are now. Yeah, and we can't. We can't let this mantle fall. We've got to uphold this standard.
Speaker 1:It was actually one of the things I was most proud of of our guys and our crew, but eyeopening about who we're attracting in Ogden Somebody there were multiple people who said it, but somebody had posted on Twitter and they said the physiognomy in Ogden at this year's conference there's like a thousand people. The physiognomy was off the charts compared to what you see in a lot of reformed conferences that we've been to in the past. There were not a lot of obese people. Most guys you could tell were like they're actually embodying this and I'll never forget this.
Speaker 1:I've said it before on the other shows, but I was talking to an older guy last year's conference and he said to me when I see old and he's like in his seventies, but he takes it seriously he's listening to the podcast. He's like no, I'm. I've been running, I've been doing my pushups, I've been doing kettlebell, I'm doing what I can. He said when I see other men, my age old pastors who are fat, shaming other men for working out, he said I see old men who don't think a war is coming, spiritual or otherwise, talk with me, tate.
Speaker 1:I was like that's right, because when you think about it, you're basically you know how in post-mill theology we say people with kids have a stake in the future and the way that they're living is a testament to what they think's coming. Well, you could say the same thing about your body, absolutely Like if you're not taking care of your physical health, you're overweight. It's not a point of attention to detail for you. You're making a statement about what you think. The future is just always going to be decadent and comfortable, exactly.
Speaker 2:We are, we are this is something we're saying a lot with Be Regenerated, but the modern world is utterly addicted to comfort. Oh, big time, Just absolutely wrought with it it is. It is something that, without even noticing, it's something that we're constantly looking for.
Speaker 1:We think about, even like on a hot day, you're like, okay, hot day, I'm going to turn the air conditioning on in my house, in my car. I'm never going to be bored, even I'm never going to have the discomfort of boredom. Whereas last year the boys and I we were out hunting and the last day of the season we chased these elk all the way to the top of a 14er. We're like at tree line watching these basins and I think I had two cliff bars and my plan was, we're just going to stay up here and hunt all day and I was like dang it.
Speaker 1:I forgot the food and we just kind of decided we're like, nah, we're not going to go back, we're just going to gut it out. And there's no cell service, it's just you and a group of guys. And it was actually really challenging. The boredom and just the patience you had to exert taming your stomach, Cause cliff bars are, like we call them, mud flaps enjoyable, some nutrition, but barely. It's not satisfying. But in that situation I just realized I was like dude, we are so used to like entertainment at your fingertips I can watch a video on youtube, I can, I can distract myself. I never have to be bored. You know, we have comfortable chair comfort everywhere. And it was like, oh yeah, we actually need to subject ourselves to these hard things.
Speaker 2:And for long periods of time every now and then. Every now and then it needs to be more than I went to the gym today for an hour. It's got to be like a day or two, couple days it's in. And whether that's hunting, going on a backcountry adventure, whether it's backpacking, whether it's doing something like a like a big, big running event or or a long bike race, whatever it is, it needs to be something where you are alone with your thoughts and the difficulty of what you're doing for a long period of time and just sit there and stew in it and just let it take effect and, like you said, there's there's a certain amount of patience that's involved with that.
Speaker 1:Cause you know it's not going to end anytime soon.
Speaker 2:No, you know that you just need to stick it out, like you just need to be there, and this is. You can look at your watch and go, oh, I've got like 11 hours left, and go, okay, oh well, it is what it is. Take the next step. Yeah, and you can. You can do all of the self-evaluation you want and go, oh well, my toes hurt, when my feet hurt, when my calves are cramping or my stomach doesn't feel. You can do that all you want.
Speaker 2:But the response in those situations is basically like, well, anyways, and like it just doesn't, it doesn't matter, that's not why you're there. And so the the example that you gave of you and your boys without, without much food. You're at tree line and you realize you're just gonna be sticking it out for the rest of the day. We're on water rations, right, and. But like you think to yourself, you get in those situations and if you don't ever get there, you don't ever get to work through this thought process, but you kind of go well, isn't this kind of the entire reason that we came up here?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like this is, this is actually what we wanted. So why, when we finally get what we've been looking forward to all year, it's september. Bulls are screaming. We're gonna go chase them. As soon as it starts to be uncomfortable, we're like oh, how can we make it more comfortable? You're like why do you do that? This is the entire point of you coming out. You've been fiending for this for months. Yeah, preparing for it, getting ready, looking forward, planning, and then it finally arrives and you're like trying to get away from it as fast as you can. Yeah, just endure it, just be there in it. That's a, it's one of the best things you can possibly do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's a good word. Uh, tate, I'm going to wrap things up. Really appreciate you coming on the show. Of course, encourage people to check us out on Patreon. We've got exclusive content there. We'll be having more conversations with Mr Tate Taylor and want to point people to you. Got a new project going on be regenerated. You and a couple other buddies are doing that. So give me just a 30 second elevator pitch. What is that? Why should people check it out?
Speaker 2:It really is a riff of what you guys are doing here. The last conference was about King Alfred and building Christian boroughs. We saw that and we are heartily saying yes and amen, but we think that in order to build those Christian boroughs, we need Christian men who are capable of bearing a load, who are capable of carrying water, carrying weight, and so what we're doing is trying to give guys resources and tools to do the things that those type of men would do Right, and so what we're doing is essentially giving guys an online platform to access some of this male camaraderie that we've been talking about. Give them access to challenges that are going to be difficult, things that they can take on in a group and know that there are other guys facing these same challenges and then communicate together. We have a school community called the Be Regenerated Brotherhood that you can find on there.
Speaker 2:You can find us on Instagram at Be Regenerated, and then my page is Tate underscore Taylor on Instagram. You can find more info on all that there. But really the idea is we essentially need a training ground for the type of men who would want to, and be capable of, building Christian boroughs, and so we're going to start at the very ground level with really consistent, diligent discipline in the daily things that you need to be doing as far as reading, praying, eating right, getting physical workout done and then allowing you to kind of compete in some of that stuff as well. So Awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate it, brother. Sounds good to encourage people to check that out. Of course, we'll have links for that in the show notes as well. Tate, thank you again.
Speaker 2:Thank you, sir, appreciate it.