Hard Men Podcast
Hard Men Podcast
Obesity, Ultra-Processed Foods, & The Revival of Ancestral Diets
Is the modern American diet a recipe for disaster? This episode unpacks the alarming rise in obesity rates over the past fifty years, spotlighting how the shift from active jobs to sedentary lifestyles and the explosion of ultra-processed foods have led to a public health crisis. Hear from thought leaders like Paul Saladino, RFK Jr., John Moody, and Joel Salatin as they champion a return to ancestral dietary practices, advocating for whole, nutrient-dense foods over today's processed alternatives. We'll also critique modern dietary guidelines and discuss the wisdom of figures like Vince Gironda, emphasizing the need to reclaim health through simple, whole-food-based nutrition.
Physical health and discipline are often neglected in Christian communities, and we examine why this is a critical oversight. By referencing scripture, we argue that maintaining one's physical well-being is essential for a productive and faithful life, especially for those in demanding pastoral roles. The conversation dives into the engineered addictiveness of modern processed foods, making a case for mindful eating and proper nutrition. Learn how unhealthy eating habits can sap energy and focus, and discover practical tips on transitioning to healthier food choices for long-term physical and spiritual health.
The homesteading and permaculture movements are experiencing a revival, and we explore their potential to improve food security and protect against totalitarianism. Inspired by the book "Sacred Cow" and experts like Raw Egg Nationalist, we uncover the manipulation of food production and its impact on consumer health. We provide practical strategies for adopting a whole foods lifestyle, from meal planning tips to understanding the nutritional value of simple, high-quality foods. This episode is a call to action, encouraging listeners to embrace traditional diets, self-sufficient practices, and a commitment to long-term health for the betterment of their lives and communities.
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Speaker 3:In the 1960s, around 13% of American adults were considered obese. In the past half century, that rate has skyrocketed, with the percentage of Americans classified as obese now hovering around 43%. Even more alarming, the rate of morbid obesity has multiplied tenfold. During the same time period, health, quality of life and fertility rates are plummeting. As chronic disease and sickness rises, the American people are slowly eating themselves into early graves. As the Puritan Thomas Watson once said, many dig their grave with their teeth.
Speaker 3:The consequences of these changes are devastating and extend far beyond just individual health. Indeed, the declining health of Americans has affected our economic, pharmaceutical, political and even theological systems. So what has changed over the last 50 to 60 years? What is causing this? The past half century has seen profound changes in American society, with multiple factors contributing to this issue. Sedentary lifestyles have become the norm, as the American workforce has largely shifted from physically demanding blue-collar jobs to vocations that involve spending the majority of their work weeks behind keyboards. The rise of technology and automation has made our lives more convenient and less physically demanding. Automation has made our lives more convenient and less physically demanding. In a decadent society that has, by historical standards, been relatively filled with peace, ease and comfort, many no longer see physical fitness as valuable.
Speaker 3:While these factors are obviously playing a significant role, one of the most critical changes fueling the obesity crisis is in the way Americans eat. Compared to their ancestors, over the last 50 to 60 years, the American diet has shifted almost entirely away from whole, locally harvested foods toward ultra-processed products. These quote-unquote foods, which dominate grocery store shelves and fast food menus, are designed to be hyper-palatable, making them difficult to resist and easy to over-consume. Their convenience and low cost make them an appealing choice for busy Americans. But this dietary shift has come at a high price. These foods contribute to excessive calorie intake, weight gain and the development of chronic diseases such as heart disease, type 2 diabetes and certain cancers. They are engineered to be addictive, triggering the brain's reward system in a way that encourages overeating and makes it difficult for individuals to break free from unhealthy eating habits. As a result, millions of Americans are trapped in a cycle of poor diet and declining health.
Speaker 3:Beyond the physical health consequences, the shift toward ultra-processed foods is also eroding the quality of life for many Americans. The consumption of these nutrient-poor foods is also linked to depression and anxiety, reduced energy levels and a general decline in overall well-being. For children the impact is particularly concerning. Exposure to ultra-processed foods at a young age can lead to lifelong unhealthy eating habits, increasing the risk of obesity and chronic disease in adulthood. The economic implications of the obesity epidemic are no better. With obesity-related medical costs estimating at $173 billion a year, the financial burden on the US healthcare system is immense. Additionally, the impact of obesity on workforce productivity, absenteeism and disability rates further exacerbates the economic strain. As more Americans suffer from obesity-related health issues, the cost to society will only continue to grow.
Speaker 3:A growing number of voices has begun to sound the alarm on this issue, drawing attention to the dire need for a return to traditional dietary practices. Among them are figures like Rawick Nationalist Paul Saladino, aka CarnivoreMD RFK Jr, and Christian advocates such as John Moody and joel salatin. Despite their diverse backgrounds and varying motivations, these individuals share a common belief that the modern american diet has strayed dangerously far from the nutritional principles that sustain humanity for millennia. Their collective message is clear to reclaim our health, we must look to the wisdom of the past, adopting the eating habits that served our ancestors for thousands of years. This call to return to ancestral diets, or really just the diet and food that predated the rise of food ink in the early 20th century isn't new. In fact, one of the earliest and most outspoken advocates was Vince Gironda, a legendary bodybuilding trainer from the golden era of the 1950s and 60s. As the American diet began its transformation towards convenience and processed foods, gironda was already warning of the dangers these changes posed. Operating out of his Southern California gym, gironda trained icons like Larry Scott, arnold Schwarzenegger, frank Zane and Lou Ferrigno, but his influence extended beyond the world of bodybuilding. Geronda was a proponent of low-carbohydrate, high-protein diets, exemplified by his famous steak and eggs routine. He was committed to sourcing food from organic, naturally-raised producers and advocating for simple yet effective nutrition centered around whole foods like eggs, beef, butter and raw milk.
Speaker 3:Fast forward to today and these foods, once staples of Gironda's nutrition philosophy, are now being demonized by our mainstream media and public health institutions. A striking example of this trend came last year, when the National Institutes of Health released a food scoring table that ranked various foods on a scale from 1 to 100, with 100 being the healthiest. In a strange twist, ultra-processed, sugar-laden breakfast cereals like Cheerios were awarded scores in the 90s, while the nutrient-dense whole foods like eggs fried in butter and ground beef scored in the 20s. This blatant disregard for nutritional science sparked outrage among many, serving as a wake-up call to the growing number of Americans who are beginning to question the dietary advice being pushed by mainstream sources.
Speaker 3:As obesity rates and health issues continue to rise, more people are turning away from the processed food narrative and seeking out the time-tested wisdom of our forefathers. They are recognizing that the path to true health lies not in highly processed, convenience-driven foods, but in embracing the simple, nutrient-rich diets that our bodies were designed to thrive on. No man will reach his full potential in the long-term work of building the new Christendom while running on poor fuel. In this episode of the Hardman Podcast, we'll discuss nutritional principles from a biblical perspective for the everyday Christian wanting to eat and live better.
Speaker 1:Well, welcome to this episode of the Hardman Podcast. I am today's host, eric Kahn, and joined today once again, mr Tate. Taylor Tate, thanks for joining us, really appreciate it, thank you sir. So, tate, you got a people can't see this because we're audio, but you got a pretty slick hat on.
Speaker 3:I do.
Speaker 1:It's the. What is this? It's not a crusader cross.
Speaker 3:It is the cross of the Holy Sepulcher.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, basically, so basically but not really, but sort of. So we got some of these hats from one of our friends on Twitter, max. Do you remember his name?
Speaker 3:His handle is the Protestant.
Speaker 1:Prince, Protestant Prince. So maybe we'll provide a link in the show notes where you, too, can order your Protestant Prince hats. But I will say this you look like a Protestant Prince right now, man. What a compliment. What a compliment, Tate. Very interesting in the cold open. We're kind of delving into this episode on nutrition and food, One of the things I think that you've found recently. We did an episode and so you got a little flavor of the Eric Kahn Hardman podcast audience on Twitter. One of the things that strikes me about it the amount of Gnostic pietism in our day is just through the roof off the charts. I mean, is that pretty much what you saw?
Speaker 3:in the comments. Yeah, it's quite the audience you've got built up there. Fans, their pietism doesn't seem to extend toward us for some reason, like the meek and lowly, doesn't? Yeah, like the politeness and the niceties don't don't extend to to us for some reason. But, um, yeah, the the Gnosticism is is heavy as soon as you post anything about Christians needing to be in better physical shape, anything about the physical world.
Speaker 1:Really at all. Yeah, it's like it's pointless, it's worthless. Yes, even you know, I find it fascinating. And Paul said that you know, disciplining your body has some value, but everybody wants to read that. As it has no value, it's stupid. You should never think about it, never even consider anything about the physical body. It's your soul, it's your quiet time with Jesus. That's the only thing that matters.
Speaker 3:It's such a strange thing. I was thinking through that and just the logic of it, because that is how they take it. Thinking through that and just the logic of it, because that is how they take it. You know, bodily training is, is of some value, but it is not of eternal value, as godliness, training, training and godliness is right, and so that, immediately, is one of the verses that's quoted. So is the um. Jesus kingdom is not of this world, and the logic of it just doesn't actually hold water. You wouldn't burn all of your five dollar bills because they weren't hundreds. That just that would just not make any sense. Now, a five dollar bill is never going to be a hundred. It's not as valuable.
Speaker 1:Just when I think that's one of the things, like all of us, no, no one here at the hard men podcast, nor at new christendom, is saying, hey, when we talk about you know, aliens, or we talk about the physical health of your body, we're not saying that the eternal kingdom isn't important, it's the highest importance for the Christian. We have to be thinking about it, all those things we're just saying. God also gave you a body and, just like the parable of the talents, you should do the best you can with the body you've been given. And I think one of the things that we'll jump into is this concept that if you're going to work hard for the kingdom and for new Christendom and I'll put it this way, we've had lunches where you know, let's say we go to a lunch, we're midday, we're in the middle of counseling and pastoral ministry and meeting with our people. You'll go to a lunch and time and again we'll have like Chick-fil-A, which is like seed oil central. You. You eat lunch and then the rest of your afternoon it's like your attention span is fallen. Here you should be listening intently to people's lives and you're like trying to fight back yawns. Your energy levels are down. It's because the food you ate, yeah, and then you. I would compare that to some of the days in which I, you know, I'll have maybe some rice and steak that I've packed from home. We eat that, and then the rest of the afternoon I feel fine, I feel great. My energy level is there. Sometimes, even better, on days when I'm intermittent fasting, it's like yeah, you. Actually, if you read the research on intermittent fasting, it's like, yeah, it's because your body's going to pump you full of HGH and some adrenaline to keep you going, so you actually feel really good. So it's kind of this concept that if we want to have these long, productive, slow, plotting lives of Christian faithfulness, we're going to have to think about the human body and, in particular, you're going to have to think about what you put in your mouth. I love the quote, too, from Thomas Watson. He said many men dig their graves with their teeth, and I'll kind of tie this in.
Speaker 1:Recently I was listening to a Tucker Carlson and he was talking with a lady about, like Philip Morris and the tobacco industry and when a lot of that got shut down through legal processes and whatnot. They're getting sued, people getting lung cancer, all that A lot of their top researchers who were trying to figure out how do we make this as addictive as possible. They simply moved over to big food, and so we get into this what you had mentioned in the cold open, which is that they're actually trying to engineer food highly processed food to be as addictive as possible. What's interesting about the food, though, is it's calorie rich, but not necessarily nutrition dense. Yeah, so walk me through that. Why is that important to consider?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think even even calling it food is playing pretty fast and loose with the term it's. It's not actually food, it's, it's something that resembles food. It's food adjacent maybe.
Speaker 1:Well, even if you watch any of the documentaries on like McDonald's, like their hamburger patty is mostly not beef, I mean just scientifically proven they'll admit it. Yeah, it's like a chemical process to put all this garbage together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's sort of this mush that is pressed into different shapes and colors and then fed to you with plenty of sodium. It is, like we said, hyper palatable, and so really the idea behind this is to sell more of it. Everyone goes and buys. You know, if you're going to order food on the dollar menu at McDonald's, you're ordering several items. You're not going and getting one, two things, you're getting a bunch of stuff, and the reason for that is that it's it's not actually very mentally satisfying to eat a tiny little portion, and so you want more of it, but what you actually did was consume three times the normal amount of calories that you would have in a given meal.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting too because you look at something like the Big Mac. I remember people did studies on this. It's like, depending on which meal you get, it's like 750 to like 1400 calories, which for especially if you're a sedentary American, that's going to be like the one meal is the bulk of your. You know your caloric intake for the day. But what's bad about it is when you actually look at the nutritional value like if you were to take I don't know, like five grams of red meat steak and you look at the nutritional breakdown versus what you're getting in a Big Mac, it's vastly different, yeah, entirely, even's vastly different, yeah, entirely, even though the calories were high. So I think this is interesting too.
Speaker 1:In our culture I think there's been a big change, even since COVID. But the rhetoric, the things that people used to talk about you know I've talked with John Moody about this. It used to be that John was a weirdo for talking about atrazine and glyphosate and Monsanto corn and what it's doing to people. Now you've got guys like RFK Jr who are saying no, we've actually been a part of lawsuits, we've actually looked into this. The rates of autism that came in the late 80s after the introduction and really government mandating of glyphosate, fertilizer, atrazine, which is they've found. It's pretty much, even if you're not going to eat foods that were produced with atrazine, which is pretty hard to avoid in the US, the stuff is in the water table.
Speaker 3:It's everywhere. It's also really interesting that that's the same time period that the US government instituted their food pyramid Right the same time period.
Speaker 1:Which was driven.
Speaker 3:In the 80s, yeah, by the grain industry.
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Speaker 5:Well, they just did come out with unemployment numbers and they're a little higher or lower than I thought.
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Speaker 1:So we'll start to unpack some of this. But again, just this idea that you know it was crazy when Alex Jones said the water is turning the frogs gay. But then you look into this and there are actually studies that show that different chemicals in the water atrazine. There's also a high level of estrogenics in the water because of things like flushing medication, opiates and the birth control pill down toilets, and so it gets into the water supply. So I found this really interesting.
Speaker 1:I was thinking of the situation in the Old Testament where Moses, he will take their idol and he'll grind it up and he'll make them drink it. And it seems to me that part of the judgment on America is like with the birth control pill is one example is like with the birth control pill. As one example this idol of we want sex without children, we want the. You know, largely in our culture we want to have sex with anybody without the offspring that it would naturally produce. So we turned to the pill in the 60s and 70s and then, in this strange, ironic, as God likes to do, twist of providence, we are now drinking the judgment as a culture. So I find this really interesting. The other thing I want to ask you about it is as you see the mainstream conversations, do you feel this vibe shift too? Like you feel like people are more awake to it now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I think you're right about COVID really waking a lot of people up. The entire vaccine conversation really sparked a lot of this. If you watch some stuff from Joel Salatin and good friend of John Moody's, they do a lot together. The homesteading and permaculture boom that has taken place in the last three or four years is pretty crazy. Those were seen as kind of like off-grid prepper type people for a very long time and now everyone is is interested in that. Owning their own chickens, having their own gardens, uh, compost piles, that kind of thing is becoming and I and I've I've even seen this in my own life a whole lot more popular. It's. It's an interesting thing Raw egg nationalist talks about this as well with with homesteads, like family gardens in Russia, in the way that the family agriculture works there to support the overall large-scale farming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting in his book too and we encourage people you can check out his account on X but kind of the idea that having a garden and chickens is a way to actually prevent some forms of totalitarianism. Yeah, so he'll go through the history of it, how largely with grain production and having a people who is in one place. So the challenge is, when you have a nomadic people, it's actually really hard to tax them and have control over them because they're, like you know, roving around in the wilderness. But if you could create these massive grain-based cultures, then what you could do is you have a people who stays in place.
Speaker 1:They're easier to tax, easier to control, and he shows throughout history how food has been used as a weapon to enslave people. And you know one way you would see that is, as he said, like any culture throughout history. If they had a high red meat diet, for example, they're going to have more testosterone. You're going to have basically more rebels on your hands that you've got to deal with. So, intentionally, throughout history you've had people who are like let's feed them a lot of soy if you're in Asia, because it will make them docile, and so it seems strange and has seemed strange until now and I think, as people are looking at what people are trying to do on the globalist agenda with food to emasculate and cause these hormone problems which make you then dependent on big pharma, and it all kind of plays together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, on big pharma and it all kind of plays together. Yeah, so back to like the definition of food, even from a biblical perspective. God gives Adam and Eve the fruit that bears seed to eat in the garden and all of the leafy greens are given to the animals to eat. And obviously there are reforms to that as we move further on. But I think one of the things that you could look at pretty easily today Cameron Weedle, a good buddy of mine, business partner, talks about this.
Speaker 3:A lot is just the biblical definition of food is being able to reproduce. So animals that bear offspring, grain and fruit that bears more fruit right, a lot of our food is not capable of doing that. It's genetically modified to a point where it will not reproduce the bread that you're buying at the grocery store. If you had the ingredients from that bread and then went and tried to reproduce it and grow your own grain, you could not do it. It's sterile because we genetically modified it on purpose so that it's not actually even it's not the same thing anymore and it's so that the people who are food Inc, like we mentioned, can control the supply.
Speaker 3:So they are the only ones with the technology to to plant this large scale agriculture stuff and it is a form of slavery. You can't, you can't take a lot of the produce that you would buy from the store and go home and plant the seeds from it and get, get plants Like you can't. Just it won't reproduce, it's not made to do that. You know like. An easy example of this is like the seedless watermelon thing, where everybody's like well, it's better because I don't have to deal with the seeds, and you're like sure, but in a sense they've stripped you of your ability to be independent.
Speaker 1:Well, even the conversations that people will have about grain and wheat. Of course you find people eating, if you're reading the KJV corn, but a grain product. So you think of what you would use to make bread and I've heard this argument. I'm fairly convinced by it. But the modern processes to strip it of everything. So normally you would have been consuming like the whole part of the grain, which actually included a lot of protein. But this refining process, it strips everything from it, just like pasteurizing milk. So you actually get other effects downstream because you've robbed some of the nutrients and it was, you know. Essentially, it's like meant to go together.
Speaker 1:One of the books that I found was really interesting. This is Diana Rogers and Rob Wolf. They have a book called Sacred Cow and it is subtitled the Case for Better Meat. One of the arguments they make in that book is that, with Food Inc, their whole goal, like Bill Gates, the tech industry, a lot of tech people are involved in venture capital for factory food, which is largely soy based, soy being one of the main things that causes hormonal problems. But the whole point is that, instead of relying on farmers and having to like pay them a cut, they can establish this whole industry of like factory meat where they control every part of the chain right so they can make more money on it.
Speaker 1:And when you look at that, even in our circles, john Moody and I've had this conversation, of course, love Pastor Doug Wilson, appreciate a lot of his stuff, but there's this video with him and Ben Merkel where he says we should see bug meat as a great post-millennial advancement. And I think this is where I would want to be careful that unfortunately, you have the people doing a lot of the best research on food and the environment are non-Christians and Christians have sort of tended to take the thing of like. You know, you've even with Tim Hawkins, the comedian. He has this line where he's like Lord, we pray that somehow you would make this Cheeto into some form of nutrient that would nourish our bodies. And you're like it's funny, because when you look at what's in a Cheeto, it's like styrofoam. Yeah, it's actually not nutritious.
Speaker 3:It's flavored plastic.
Speaker 1:So correct me if I'm wrong. I think that you know there's this movement among especially reform reform pastors where it's like almost celebrated to be overweight, Like that's a good thing because you're feasting all the time. Certainly, we would be proponents of feasting at the proper time, but but I would disagree that bug meat is a good thing. I'm curious your take on it.
Speaker 3:Love Pastor Doug Wilson, read a ton of his books Huge fan. But yeah, I disagree with that particular statement. I think it's a mix up of categories. Not all advancement is progress. Right, and that would be kind of my stance on that. Cheetos are not good for you. I mean just like. It's not even hard to figure out. It's really basic, simple stuff. If you buy it in a cellophane package and have to pop it open and there's some sort of miracle dust, if you put it this way, if you handed one of those to someone 500 years ago and went, what is this? They would have. No, they would not know what it. It would be utterly foreign to them. Yeah, and even if you handed it to someone on the street right now and said, tell me what's in this? No one knows, they don't have any idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting too. On the food discussion, and this is where I would encourage Christians like read more. Right, you're going to have to do some research on this. One of the books that was also helpful to me this is from Nina Teckles. She's a journalist. She has a book called the Big Fat Surprise, and so it's about really the 20th century and what happened to food with food ink and the development of it. And so it's about really the 20th century and what happened to food with Food Inc and the development of it.
Speaker 1:But one of the interesting things we take it for granted in our culture that like cancer, heart disease, alzheimer's, that these are just the staples of any society because we deal with them all the time. I think I read a study and people can weigh in. Please on the comments if you got better, different information. But I had read that like 33% of all Americans will get cancer at some point in their life. Now, as I said, we've taken for granted that this is just normal. But Nina points out in her book that before the 20th century these things were not prevalent at all in American society. Heart disease was not a thing, alzheimer's was not a thing. A lot of research is showing now that Alzheimer's is connected to gut health.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and actually a lot of people are starting to call it type 3 diabetes. That's correct.
Speaker 1:So if you've got ultra processed, refined carbohydrates and sugars that are a staple of the American diet, it is pretty closely linked to cancer, alzheimer's and poor metabolic health, which I think is shocking. This is one of the other things that Nina points out in the book. You really had a shift in the 50s where this is where we get the quote, unquote research that meat and fat, animal fats, are bad for you, that they're going to kill you and, um, you know the eisenhower era. We get the food pyramid. It's very grain based and techo shows in her book like this research was just bunk, like it the whole, even the whole study of cholesterol, wildly inaccurate.
Speaker 3:That was actually linked to the fact that eggs were growing in price during that time period and it's the only thing that the federal government has ever done that with. They used cholesterol as the argument to go. Well, actually you shouldn't be eating that many eggs anyways because of this cholesterol that's contained in the yolk. But it was totally a response to an increase in price and the economic factors that were going on. It had nothing to do with the food itself. An egg is one of the most honestly it's. It's kind of shocking the fact that God has made this thing. That doesn't require you to kill an animal. It doesn't hurt the chicken at all to lay eggs. That's just what they do. They just churn these things out and then you just walk over and pick them up and they don't even care, and then you can take it in your house and cook it and it supplies you with an insane amount of nutrition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's one of the one of the things that comes out in the book is really, in 1953 Ansel Keys develops. So Eisenhower has a heart attack. He's working with him. They developed the lipid heart hypothesis, which is mainly it's an assertion that high intakes of total fat, saturated fat and cholesterol lead to heart disease, arthrosclerosis, hardening of the arteries and whatnot. Then they had the mediterranean diet, which was like chicken olive oil.
Speaker 1:You kind of find an anomaly here, though, because when the researchers now have gone back and looked at the studies, they were really bad. It was not, it wouldn't hold up to any form of, you know, scientific study today. It's also interesting, I think, because when I was reading this I was like wait, red meat doesn't kill you, because I grew up with that, and so we were like everything's low fat, the food's all low fat. What they do is they often replace it with high fructose corn syrup. In terms of the calories, one of the interesting things I thought too in Nina's book she talks about kind of the beginning of big food was around the turn of the century.
Speaker 1:So early 1900s researchers started developing kind of specialized manufactured products. They were working on one product that would supposedly replace lubricants for engines and machinery. So, interestingly enough, before this time they were using animal fats, like pig fat, for greases. So they're trying to develop other things, just kind of you know, eventually get into like petroleum and stuff like that that they would use for grease. But for a long time it was pig fat and so they developed this product, and it was originally for machinery. And what they found is one of the researchers said well, you know, it kind of looks like, you know, like a tallow, that would. You know, animal fats were used predominantly in cooking because they're very stable at high heat, and this product was called Crisco. And one of the things that they did is during World War I. They were like, okay, we want this product to sell really well, so we're going to ship all of our animal fats to Europe and we're going to tell people there's a shortage. And so Betty Crocker cookbooks and other things started replacing animal fats in their recipes with Crisco.
Speaker 1:Well then you have this shift in the American economy and the food industry away from animal fats and toward these seed oil-based products. Well, of course then it coincides perfectly with the rise in all these diseases. So kind of the idea I think for me in all. Of this was number one. We haven't always had these health problems. Number two is it necessarily good that we've switched from actual food that comes from animals to stuff that is produced in a lab? And that's not new. That goes back, as I said, to the early 20th century. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really interesting. I don't know why this is. This is comes back to that same thing we're talking about a minute ago. All advancement is not not actually progress. Yeah, oftentimes, if it's if it's not broken, don't try to fix it. You see, oftentimes, if it's if it's not broken, don't try to fix it.
Speaker 3:You see, we talked about this before the episode, but you see, these photos that people are are posting of um beaches and parks and and like in the 60s and 70s, yeah, just I mean just people walking down main street in you know whatever city and you can't find an obese person in the photo and there's a thousand people sitting there and you can't find someone who looks like they're overweight. For some reason, we decided to change things just for the sake of changing them, just because we could Right now. I was looking at something yesterday.
Speaker 3:Somewhere around 400 calories a day in the American standard, just average diet is taken up by vegetable oil. 400 calories a day. 400 calories a day that's a lot and that's like stuff that you're not thinking about. You're going, hey, I'm just going to spray this pan with Pam and you're not thinking about what in the world is in this. Can that you're? It's some sort of lubricant, but it's not food. It's a good rule of thumb that if it's if the fat is not solid at room temperature, you probably shouldn't be eating it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting because you know they've looked at like, say, like Victorian England, so pre, really, pre 20th century, that that era in England their health span and lifespan is greater than ours today. And one of the things they found was there what were the staples of their diet? If you went and looked at it, so it was a lot of like soups from meat on the bone. So you're getting like the bone broth. While you're eating it It'd be like a roast, but you cook it with the bone in. They ate a lot of like apples, a lot of freshly produced produce.
Speaker 1:Of course this is before, like the era of like chemical fertilizers atrazine obviously, by the way, atrazine is banned in Europe. I find that funny. Yeah, quite an interesting point. They're like, yeah, we don't. Even this is terrible, and yet in America we spray it on everything and don't even think twice about it. No, no. So I think that's interesting but, like with Victorian England, it's a good case study. And you know, we just assume because the technology we're healthier now, but people are not only dying at younger and younger ages but then having, as you mentioned, in the cold open. It's putting such a stress on the health care system Because it's not only you have a shorter lifespan, but the health span.
Speaker 3:You're not healthy in those years, a shorter lifespan, the healthspan. You're not healthy in those years. Right, we're talking about lifespan, but that doesn't, that doesn't take into effect that a lot of people are are essentially being propped up for the last 20 years of their life by insane amounts of medication and surgeries and and other and other things that are. They're essentially medically artificially keeping them alive because they're not healthy. And it's not that they you know they had some sort of crazy accident where you know their health went downhill. It's just, we are literally just eating ourselves into bad health at a crazy rate. I think it's 70% of the US population today, as it stands, is overweight or obese.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting too. You can look at old photos, like I saw one in a book on the medieval period, but you have like knights in their armor and they showed I think it was Henry VIII his armor. He was known as, like the fat king. So his armor is funny because it's got to be built around a little bit of a pooch uh, his little gut. But what's funny about it and interesting is what they called fat and obese back then. He's pretty trimmed by american standards. He just looks like an average guy and actually smaller than the average guy. Like his gut in the in the armor is like oh, that's gut. Like that's what they called fat because it was so abnormal. Now a lot of people can say, yeah, there were advancements in agriculture and food and you want to have healthy societies and you want to make sure that people are well nourished or they grow and they're physically strong, all that. But then you'll see this point where it starts diminishing right With the changes in foods.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, I think that's a good point, because I think a common response to this would be well, there were a bunch of people dying of starvation in those time periods too, and they're not wrong. We have had advancements in many ways, but we've taken it too far a lot of the time, and now we're starting to step into this other ditch. That's also quite bad for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. So ditches on both sides also quite bad for us. Yeah, that's right so ditches on both sides.
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Speaker 1:I want to jump into some of the principles. As we've said. You know, I think, like RFK when he joined with Trump recently, I was encouraged to see him saying things like we're going to go after, you know, big pharma. We're going to go after even mentioning like banning seed oils. So I think this is encouraging for our listeners Kind of. What I want to do for the rest of the show is talk about some of the principles for food, and then I do want to plug for our Patreon exclusive show. Tate and I are going to be talking through like a weekly menu like what do you actually eat in a week, and so encourage you to sign up for Patreon. You can get access to that Kind of look at a average diet in the week for Tate Taylor and, uh, you know all of us. Maybe we all look like Tay Taylor. That would be great. I'll take it. I'll take it.
Speaker 1:I will say this, by the way, there's been a lot of comments like oh, the Ogden boys, I guess everybody has to be in the gym, everybody has to blah, blah, blah. You guys teach this, you force it, whatever. No, I think the way that it works is the way that glory and beauty always works. When you see you and a bunch of young men in the church who are working hard, they're disciplining their bodies and their minds, they're pushing each other. Again, I've said this before, but for the pastors even, you know I'm almost 40. So I'm not one of the young 20 year olds, but I look at it and I'm like, okay, this is inspiring, this is I want it to inspire me that, yeah, I can't have the same capacity as I did at 25, but I can still push myself. I can be an example to the younger men and we can work on things like diet, food, health. It should be inspirational, and so I would just encourage people, especially if you're an older pastor, you can still inspire the young men right, rather than I think what's happening now is just taking shots at young men. You know, you're just continually like browbeating them for wanting to be physically healthy.
Speaker 1:And what I would say is this is how I look at it with my son, especially my oldest the other day he's downstairs in the basement, he's like, yeah, I don't have much time, I'm just going to get a quick workout in. He like I'm watching him. He like barely warms up and he cranks out like two sets of five at three, 50 on deadlift. And I was like you, dog. But I tell you what, like I, I'm excited by that.
Speaker 1:I'm not like going down there and be like, well, you know that physical strength isn't everything. You should know, christ. Yeah, no, I want to encourage him. I want to be the coach in his corner who's calling him to great things and then saying to him with all that strength, it's not for vanity, it's not so you can navel gaze, all that strength is for your people. I want you to be a strong young man so that you can marry a godly woman and you can produce offspring and you guys can be healthy and you can take this plow. Guys can be healthy and you can take this plow that we're pushing and you can get behind that plow, including with your physical strength, and you can push this into the next generation, because we're going to need that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, and, like we mentioned, this is a long term project. If you want to be on board for the long haul, you might want to take your health seriously, like you want to die at a good old age surrounded by your people. Well then, we can't be having heart attacks at 55 or 40 or 45. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love the picture in the Old Testament of Caleb Right. He's like in his 80s and all the young men in Israel, they're like there's too many giants up in the land in this part of Canaan. I just don't know how we'll do it. And I love Caleb. He's like I'm as good as I ever was. I'm in my physical prime. You know the Doc Holliday. They're like Doc. You look like you're on the step of death, the doorstep of death, and he's like me. I'm in my prime, I'm prime. I want to be the old guy who's like come on, you young whippersnappers. Yeah, you know, we can, we can tackle this together.
Speaker 1:So, with that in mind, a few principles. I think one thing we've kind of walked around this a little bit, but Matt Reynolds from barbell logic, of course, my coach with a power lifting he said at our conference the first one, not this year, but the year before he said a general rule of thumb and I think it's a good principle for nutrition If it has a face or a mother or you can pick it from your garden, it's probably good for you, yeah, right. So this goes back to what you were saying about fruit and fruitfulness If it's got a face or a mother. And then we're encouraging a lot of things that we do in the community, like with Quinn at Salt and Strings Butchery. We've got a lot of people buying whole animals.
Speaker 1:Part of the nose to tail type eating that's really healthy is that you're getting a lot of the nutrients from liver. You're getting a lot of the nutrients from fat. A lot of the stuff that you get, especially like the roast cuts, again you're putting it in a pot, you're cooking it. You're consuming the fat as well as the lean, lean muscle. So agree, disagree. Good principle face or mother. Grow it in the garden.
Speaker 3:Yeah, love that we mentioned this a bit in the cold open, but this is essentially one of the main principles for how people used to eat. Things didn't have the kinds of preservatives that they do today. Once you killed it, it needed to be eaten that day. Or canned or something like canned or preserved in some other way. But yeah, same thing with with fruits and vegetables. They were harvested locally.
Speaker 3:They were either preserved in seasonal probably made into some sort of apple cider or something like that, and jams, jellies, exactly and so things were eaten more quickly. So there's something to this too. And so things were eaten more quickly. So there's something to this too. The longer something has been dead, the more the nutrients are going to be denatured, right? And so things that have a shelf life of four years, that were, you know, supposed to be organic, organic food, well, it's not. It's not the same thing anymore.
Speaker 3:This is why I think things like hunting and getting into real processes like this, where you see how food is harvested, how animals are taken and turned into meals, is extremely important. As soon as you kill an animal, you need to go take care of the meat. That's the number one priority right away. We're going to go take care of this meat because if we don't, it's not going to be edible anymore. And then we walk into grocery stores and see, you know, piles of meat or whatever it is on the on the shelf, and it doesn't, you know, because it's cold. We don't think twice about the fact that we don't have any idea how long it's been there, and so I think there's an element of time to this too. The more fresh it is, whether it's meat, whether it's vegetables, fruit, doesn't matter. Milk, yeah, anything. The fresher it is, the better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think if you follow that, it's going to necessarily we would have to see some wholesale changes in food production, obviously. But I think if you're going away from preservatives, you're naturally going to be like, okay, well then I'm going to buy as we do here. I'm going to buy my milk from something that's local, as opposed to, you know, dean's milk in Kentucky, which? How long did it take to get there to here? How much fossil fuel was expended where it's like. But we have a dairy farm up the road and I can consume my milk with the cream, yeah, which is my favorite. That's the best part anyway. So, yeah, I think that's a good one.
Speaker 1:The other thing that I've read is if it has a nutrition label, you may want to think twice. Yeah, and I started thinking okay, what kind of food is that? Well, if you go to the farmer's market and you get a bunch of fresh picked strawberries, does it have a label? No. If you pick it in your garden, obviously does it have a label? No. If you buy it from Quinn, does it have a label? No. So a lot of this too, and this is where I would kind of point people. We're trying to give you principles, and it actually doesn't have to be super complicated. I think any nutritional plan that is really complicated and very expensive, it's going to be hard to long-term implement it. So having just some simple principles that you could apply would be helpful. And this is one other reason one of our favorite IPAs, which I think is Jackson Hole Wyoming Yep. Do you remember the name of it?
Speaker 3:Roadhouse Brewing it's the Walrus, the Walrus.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite things about it no nutrition label, so we're good.
Speaker 3:Exactly, it's a good point. It's really even hard to find the ABV on the can, but no, this is a great principle. Your point there is a really good one. If we narrow this down to, you can only eat things that come out of your garden and you can only eat meat that has been killed by someone you know or you know like. Most people are not going to be able to do that. That's just not a reality for most people. I think we're not going to be able to be Steve.
Speaker 3:Rinella right, not everyone has that luxury, because it actually is a luxury today. But to to kind of dial that back a little bit, one thing you can think about is when you walk into the grocery store, just don't go in the middle of the store.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's another one of the principles I was going to mention. Right, Don't stay in the middle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, stay out of those middle aisles entirely. There's nothing in there that's actually food. You might find some sort of like dried fruit or something like that, but for the most part you need to stay in that outside area. For the most part, you need to stay in that outside area. So where you're finding things like fruits, vegetables, you're finding your meat and you're finding things like milk and dairy and that kind of stuff, stay in that outside area in the grocery store. Avoid the nutrition labels if you can, and that's a good rule of thumb for shopping for food. Obviously, if you can do the more local stuff, if you can do stuff like salt and strings, that's going to be better. But I think just the small steps away from hey, we're just going to grab some Pop-Tarts in case we get snacky this week. Well, yeah, you're just setting yourself up for failure when you walk into the grocery store thinking that yeah, it's really helpful.
Speaker 1:One of the other things that I've utilized, I guess, is so there was a time where we did carnivore. I'm actually not a huge fan of that. Dan and I both have talked about this, because a lot of people ask us still, you did the carnivore episode. Blah, blah, blah. It was a really cool. I would treat it like a fast. It was a really cool thing to do for a few months. It definitely.
Speaker 1:I think humans are hardwired for a variety of food. It's very hard mentally to just eat like just meat, and depends which kind of carnivore. You are right, but we were eating like meat, eggs, raw milk kind of it, and that got old quick, whereas I would say like I love the stuff that comes out of Dan's garden and I want to eat those things and they're really good and I would argue I think they're good for you. One of the things we noticed on carnivore, though our hormone panels that we did before and after actually got worse, particularly on like testosterone with carnivores. So something to be aware of. I think we really were designed as omnivorous creatures, not just carnivorous. So a lot of value in red meat, one of the things that even Paul Saladino went from carnivore to what now he calls like animal based, but he's got a list of foods in terms of, like, how inflammatory they are.
Speaker 1:Zone one will include things like, actually, white rice there's a lot of meat on there. Zone two is like brown rice, which is more inflammatory actually than the white rice Nightshades. So potatoes. First category, though, has sweet potatoes. So a lot of the way I use those charts is like I'm going to try and live kind of in zone one, so like, instead of having a steak with white potatoes, every time you have steak it's like okay, let's do some sweet potatoes and maybe some Serrano peppers or something like that. You know we're going to include a diet like that. What I have found in using that, it's amazing that you can have, like you know, I think for one of the kids' birthdays recently, this is like a treat, but we had raisin canes. I ate that meal. I was both stuffed and starving afterwards and I felt like absolute garbage.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh. Yeah, it'll wreck your stomach. If you haven't had something like that in a long time, it will destroy you.
Speaker 1:And it's funny because when, like the other nights, one of the birthday nights, we had ribeyes and sweet potatoes and it's like I think we ate probably at five, wasn't hungry all night, and it's like I think we ate probably at five, wasn't hungry all night, woke up in the morning, wasn't starving, felt great and I'm like, okay, there's actually something to again the nutritional value of food. One of the things I think is interesting with the animal based is it's not saying we're just going to do one food group right, you can, but it's just, you can eat other things. But just thinking through, like, okay, we're not eating Cheetos my wife and I have talked about it it's like let's just not buy from the middle, you know, let's have fruit, let's have some bananas, and and you can do that. Like it's not as impossible as it seems.
Speaker 3:I think part of the problem that people might have is just a mental block and it seems odd to sit down with a steak and a bunch of apple slices. You're like, well, that's not a normal meal, and you're right. But I think that's part of the problem is that that's not a normal meal. Some sort of meat and some sort of fruit, some sort of meat, some sort of vegetable, like that. It doesn't have to be some sort of quintessential like grandma's cooking type meal to be good for you or to be enjoyable. Right, and so keep things really simple, like you were saying. But one of the biggest things that you're pointing at with all of this is that the priority when you're eating is protein. Yeah, like that is the priority.
Speaker 3:And so being aggressive, being proactive, instead of trying to just avoid process stuff or stuff with the label or all of that's good, but I think one way of thinking about this that could be helpful is to be more aggressive. Stop playing defense all the time. Play offense and go. Okay, what do I need to be putting on my plate? Let's go find those things.
Speaker 1:I think part of what's hard about changing from the ultra process to more, I guess, a whole foods type diet is actually prep. You have to really prepare and think through what you're going to be eating on that week. Now you can still do really cool things with snack foods. One of the things that we've done is like for kids and lunch. If you're going to you know you're going to be on the run. My wife actually bought this little contraption at one of our like church market days. Uh, somebody was selling for cheap, but it's uh, it's a hard boiled egg maker. So you can put like I don't know if it's like 12 eggs, you can hard boil eggs and pretty short order and then have those for the week. It's sort of a to-go snack. Uh, we really liked the dates. We'll cut them open and then put just a slab of butter in the middle of them and that can be really good. So there's ways that you can actually create quote unquote snack foods as well. If you're on the go, something like that doesn't have to be crazy Right. One of the other things too is I'll just mention is thinking through things like I remember Matt Reynolds telling me like there's really two things you need to worry about in terms of quote unquote like nutrition and supplements. So he said whey, protein and creatine Like they have a proven track record. They're actually pretty cheap and they're not fancy Beyond that. Like, don't go crazy.
Speaker 1:One of the things I have looked at, though with whey, you can buy like the tub of really cheap whey at Walmart. One of the things I have looked at, though, with whey, you can buy like the tub of really cheap whey at Walmart. Part of the problem is all the chemicals that are in it, so that is one area where I've kind of switched. It's more expensive but you're actually getting a lot more in what you consume. I've started using I think it's called Naked Whey. They've got some other products that are. You know it's more expensive than the Walmart tub, but there's none of the junk in it. Like you read the label and it's like whey protein period.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You're like, okay, great, I'd rather stick with something like that. And then creatine helps with a lot of stuff mental, physical. Again, you can find it on Amazon like just you know, creatine monohydrate pretty cheap, it's not expensive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, creatine monohydrate has had more studies done on it than almost any other substance in the world. It's it's kind of crazy, um, and there are still finding stuff that it seems to be beneficial for cognitive function, aging, hair, skin and nails, like all kinds of stuff that it can be good for. I always I would say that would be the top of my list if I was going to go find supplements. But once again, the entire point of a supplement is to supplement your diet. It's to add to in, fill in gaps that you have with your diet. I don't use a ton of supplements. I I use uh, I take some zinc and some magnesium for, for hydration and things like that hormone control, but I don't use a whole lot of stuff.
Speaker 1:I like caffeine because it's useful, but but I mean other than oh yeah, that's the supplement I forgot to mention.
Speaker 3:Uh is in nicotines, got all kinds of uh helpful stuff, but even that, like I use caffeine and I use um, I use a lot of sweet potatoes and ground beef. Like I eat a ton of sweet potatoes and ground beef.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that that is another good thing to mention. I think is it especially like we were doing carnivore. They're like how do you eat ribeye every night? And we're like we don't. Ground beef is great, yeah, Way cheaper, yeah, and, and so you're probably going to eat a lot more of that.
Speaker 3:One thing real quick about the eggs. You said something about the hard boiler for eggs. We have one as well, something that I just found out the other day. That obviously makes sense, but low heat on eggs will denature less of the nutrients and there's a lot going on in an egg, like we've already mentioned. So if you can stomach doing runny yolks, that's the way to go. So soft boil them, slonk them, slonk them Straight slonk. Yeah, do a big raw milk and that's a Vince Gironda thing.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and just to piggyback off that for a second. So Gironda had done a study where they took burn victims and they were feeding them 36 eggs a day and what they found is it was kind of like a pre-anabolic steroid type thing, where they were like before the mass introduction of that and steroids had replaced it eventually, obviously in the medical community. But they could find that they were regrowing skin and recovering at like astronomically faster rates. So Vince took that and he was like well, I think you could apply that to bodybuilding and it was actually pretty successful. If you I've looked up some of his diets, he was eating like fish oils. He would have some fish.
Speaker 3:He was one of the first guys to do desiccated liver as well.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, he was eating a lot of that and you look at it and it's like it works. So if, if you look up old photos, you can look these up on Google, but look up like Charles Bronson. This dude was stacked I mean not like muscle bound like the anabolic steroid users today would be no, but he was ripped and he was like even into old age and he was part of this like training scene, but it was largely like you'd probably call it, some sort of animal based diet with a lot of eggs, a lot of red meat. Obviously they're training, not like no processed carbohydrates, right, none, yeah, so it's really interesting.
Speaker 1:Last thing I want to talk about in this show we'll close and then encourage people to check out the Patreon show. We'll talk about meal planning. This really is an important issue for Christian fellowship and I've always said don't freak out and don't be a food freak. It's easy to become a food zealot. Like you get into this stuff and then you're so spun up about it that, like I can't eat at people's houses, I have to throw a fit or you know, my conscience is seared every time I go to somebody's house and you know, maybe they are serving spaghetti and you know I'm like well, I don't normally eat that. Here's what I say to people that fellowship comes before those things. If you're taking care of yourself at home and on a daily basis, that's not going to make as big of an impact and we certainly don't want to let food nutrition destroy fellowship. So we have a general rule when people send us the text and they say, hey, we'd love to have you guys over, do you have any food restrictions? I say Nope and we don't.
Speaker 1:Now, if somebody has celiacs, okay, I get it. We're not talking about you Different situation there but I don't. I don't say anything. We go over. If they serve me old Milwaukee's best and cheese steaks, like I'm going to eat them and I'm not going to complain and I'm also not going to feel bad about it. I'm going to give thanks to the Lord and we're going to rejoice in the meal that we get to share with other people. One thing we've noticed like it. You know we'll have these potlucks. Many churches I've been to you have a potluck. Somebody's on a diet and so they're in the corner eating their little bowl of salad. And one of the things I would say to people this actually isn't rocket surgery. Whatever you, whatever kind of diet you're on, bring that food as a main dish to share with everyone, and then participate in the meal and then just eat your dish.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, don't be the weirdo in the corner with your little bowl or whatever. Just participate in the meal with other people. Again, that's the point of a potluck. Bring enough to share and, above all, don't freak out. Yeah, it's not a reason to break fellowship. Doug's been really good on this. He's got a book. I think it's confessions of a food Catholic. You can look that up on Canon press. That's a good book, I think, helping people realize like there's more at play here than just your personal nutrition. You need to think about fellowship. I'm curious how much you've thought about that, that kind of dynamic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's interesting. We've been kind of adjusting to that as well, because we do some things on Tuesdays. We do potluck beforehand and one of the things that I I've already, I guess, got a little bit of a reputation as being like the fitness guy, which I don't think of myself that way. But you know, if I can be helpful that way, then great. And so my wife loves making all kinds of stuff and I'm like, listen, we're going to, we're going to be intentional about bringing something that I would encourage other guys to eat, and so we've been doing a lot of really simple stuff ground beef and couscous, ground beef and sweet potatoes, whatever it is. But we bring a dish that I would want to suggest to some other guy and I think you would notice that the ratio of protein to carbs in that meal is going to be pretty drastic.
Speaker 1:I think that's. The other good thing about it is like John Moody made this point. He's like hey, if we're in a Southern church and everybody's like obese, like maybe not pizza.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:But the other thing I've appreciated about you is I've never heard you going around being like, hey, why are you eating that? No, Like I'm not going to be a food Nazi about it it just doesn't work.
Speaker 3:It's not effective. You can you can shame people all you want, but until you really know them like the only people I would ever do that to, are like good buddies of mine, who know that I actually love them, in which case we're like hey fatty, are you sure about that piece of pie?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Like looking at your good friends.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, You're not doing that to just you know acquaintances and people that you don't know that well and aren't aren't expressing some sort of interest on being, in being on this mission with you, Right? And?
Speaker 1:I think that's the point. Like, for you, the inspiration that people draw from the community is they see what you're doing, they see it as a glory, and then people will say, yeah, I think I, I think, I think I want that. Maybe I'll you know, maybe I'll start working out with these guys or maybe I'll put a gym in my garage or whatever.
Speaker 3:It is Right, but you want it to be appealing, rather than this constant source of tension and frustration in the body or like you're, you're on some sort of pedestal because you were particularly into this one thing, right, right, and as if you're, as if you're somehow superior to all the rest of the people in the church because you really like working out, like it's just a silly thing to think.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I absolutely agree. The other thing is that your mental state is actually really important here, and if you're in a situation where you think that one cookie is going to ruin everything, the thought process that you're having is probably more damaging than the cookie. Yeah, like the, the hormone response that you have to this freak out session, because there's not the perfect food that you're used to eating and it's going to throw your diet off and tomorrow's workout is not going to be as good, and blah, blah, blah. Like the, the hormone response, the cortisol that's released, all the stuff that comes along with that actual mental response is worse for you than just eating the food and being like I'm going to be fine.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think people need to get used to the fact that this is a long-term thing. It's not some eight weeks to get really, really into shape, and then I'll go back to living the way that I was. This is a lifestyle that you will gradually get into, and then it'll morph and change and it'll look different. You know as you go about it, and so the most important thing is what you're going to do tomorrow. Anyways, it's not the single thing that happened today. It's this long-term stacking of bricks into a wall that's really hard to knock down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's great. Well, tate, I want to thank you for joining me. Hopefully this has been an encouraging episode for people, giving you some resources. We'll include the links to some of those books in the show notes and finally, just encourage people to check out the Patreon only the Pugilist. We'll be talking more about a menu plan with Mr Tate, taylor Tate. Again Thank you for joining me, really appreciate it, eric. Thank you Awesome. Well, guys, thanks for supporting the show. Special shout out to our Patreon supporters. You make this endeavor possible. We love your feedback and comments over on Patreon. Until next time, stay frosty, fight the good fight, act like men.