Stepping into the shoes of a legend, Joseph William Foster, the founder of Reebok, joins us to weave a compelling narrative of innovation and determination that transformed the athletic footwear industry. As we trace the Foster family legacy from a small shoemaking workshop in Bolton to the global powerhouse of Reebok, Joe shares the intimate details of his journey—from the spikes his grandfather innovated for running shoes in 1895, to the cultural fashion phenomenon that Reebok became. Get ready to be inspired by the story of two brothers who, with a mix of serendipity and entrepreneurial spirit, created a brand that sprinted past competition and into history.
Harnessing luck like the perfect pair of sneakers, Joe and his brother Jeff laced up their ambitions and set off to establish their own company. This episode reveals how they crafted a brand that resonated with athletes and fashion icons alike, discussing everything from the accidental discovery of Reebok's name to the iconic arrow that became synonymous with the brand. Joe's partnership with Paul Fireman and the strategic maneuvers that catapulted Reebok into the U.S. market showcase a masterclass in scaling a business and making bold, yet calculated, leaps.
As Joe recounts his transition from hands-on management to a mentorship role, he imparts wisdom on the art of building a strong team—one where each member outshines the leader in their own right. The conversation shifts to legacy and entrepreneurship, as Joe reflects on the importance of documenting his story in "Shoemaker" to set the record straight and share the true narrative behind Reebok's success. Through triumphs and tribulations, the story of Reebok emerges not just as a tale of shoe craftsmanship, but as a blueprint for aspiring entrepreneurs everywhere. Join us for a session of storytelling that will have you running towards your dreams with renewed vigor.
To Reach Jordan:
Email: Jordan@Edwards.Consulting
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9ejFXH1_BjdnxG4J8u93Zw
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Complimentary Edwards Consulting Session: https://calendly.com/jordan-555/intro-call
Stepping into the shoes of a legend, Joseph William Foster, the founder of Reebok, joins us to weave a compelling narrative of innovation and determination that transformed the athletic footwear industry. As we trace the Foster family legacy from a small shoemaking workshop in Bolton to the global powerhouse of Reebok, Joe shares the intimate details of his journey—from the spikes his grandfather innovated for running shoes in 1895, to the cultural fashion phenomenon that Reebok became. Get ready to be inspired by the story of two brothers who, with a mix of serendipity and entrepreneurial spirit, created a brand that sprinted past competition and into history.
Harnessing luck like the perfect pair of sneakers, Joe and his brother Jeff laced up their ambitions and set off to establish their own company. This episode reveals how they crafted a brand that resonated with athletes and fashion icons alike, discussing everything from the accidental discovery of Reebok's name to the iconic arrow that became synonymous with the brand. Joe's partnership with Paul Fireman and the strategic maneuvers that catapulted Reebok into the U.S. market showcase a masterclass in scaling a business and making bold, yet calculated, leaps.
As Joe recounts his transition from hands-on management to a mentorship role, he imparts wisdom on the art of building a strong team—one where each member outshines the leader in their own right. The conversation shifts to legacy and entrepreneurship, as Joe reflects on the importance of documenting his story in "Shoemaker" to set the record straight and share the true narrative behind Reebok's success. Through triumphs and tribulations, the story of Reebok emerges not just as a tale of shoe craftsmanship, but as a blueprint for aspiring entrepreneurs everywhere. Join us for a session of storytelling that will have you running towards your dreams with renewed vigor.
To Reach Jordan:
Email: Jordan@Edwards.Consulting
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9ejFXH1_BjdnxG4J8u93Zw
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jordan.edwards.7503
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jordanfedwards/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordanedwards5/
Hope you find value in this. If so please provide a 5-star and drop a review.
Complimentary Edwards Consulting Session: https://calendly.com/jordan-555/intro-call
Hey, what's going on, everyone? I have a very special guest here, joseph William Foster. He's the founder of Reebok, the global shoe band, and he just released a new book Shoemaker. Hey Joe, how are we doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing fine. Thank you, jordan. Yes, thank you, indeed Nice to speak to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Joe, we're excited to have you on the Clocked In podcast. Nice to speak to you. Yeah, Joe, we're excited to have you on the Clockton podcast. So let's just start. Where were you born? Where did you grow up?
Speaker 2:How did you get into shoes. Okay, well, I was born in Bolton, that's in England, in the UK, and I was born in 1935, which is quite a long time ago, as you can imagine, and by 1939, of course, we were in World War II. So for the first six years, well, for six years when I was four to ten, my life was during war years and everything was in blackout, no lights on. So it was a fun upbringing really. I didn't know any difference. That's what you expect. It was strange when I was 10 and the lights came on again. So my early upbringing was sort of during the war years.
Speaker 2:But when we start talking about the Foster, jw Foster, the JW Foster brand really started off with my grandfather and that was way, way back to 1895. And in 1895, as a youngster 15 years old, that's all he made himself a pair of running shoes with spikes in the front. That was quite novel because as a member of the local athletics club nobody had spike shoes, they just wore plimsolls or regular shoes to run in. So that gave him a big advantage.
Speaker 1:So as a 15 year old, your grandpa was able to run. He might not have been faster than people, but the shoes made him quicker because it gave him such an advantage well, indeed, yes, I mean he.
Speaker 2:He was a cobbler by trade, so he had a good idea on how to make a pair of shoes and he thought of putting spikes in and running on a cinder track, which in those days, there were cinders. So if you run on a cinder with just regular shoes, the cinders would slip away and you'd lose some traction With spikes. Well, he had an advantage. So instead of being halfway down the field, he was beginning to move up. In fact he got to second and that was like a big advantage, which is, uh, his fellow club mates uh took notice of and did he do it just because he wanted to run faster, not that he wanted a shoe company or anything originally I, I.
Speaker 2:I think that there was two things. One, yes, to run faster. The other was that he saw this was a way forward, this was something new. Uh, this was not been done, really. As far as he was concerned, um, he learned his trade as a cobbler from his own grandfather and his own grandfather who lived about 60 miles away. He used to go and visit. His own grandfather was a cobbler, but as a cobbler he used to repair cricket boots, and cricket boots they had spikes in the bottom. And of course, he would ask his grandfather why do they have spikes in the bottom? Well, it gives you more traction, it gives you grip. You don't slip on the grass when you're playing cricket. And I think that was probably a light bulb moment, for my grandfather thought, well, why don't I do that in the pro running shoes? Yeah, so from his point of view, that would give him an advantage. The other thing was it was novel, it was new. Why not? Possibly there's some business here, do you think?
Speaker 1:maybe, oh, maybe yeah, it sounds exciting, it sounds new. So then the generation in between you.
Speaker 2:Your father, he went into the shoe industry as well, right, yeah, well, if you think, my grandfather started off really at the beginning of the 20th century, 19 by 1900. He made his own shoes in 1895. By 1900 he had a business because all his fellow athletes and all the athletes within a few miles of him, they wanted those spike running shoes. So by 2000, he set himself up as JW Foster and he was making running shoes for local athletes and athletes throughout the UK. However, we had a war to intervene. World War II came along. So from 1914 to 1918, they were repairing army boots. Oh, because everyone had to go Everyone had to assist with the war efforts.
Speaker 2:That's right. But by the time 1920 came along, they were back into making running shoes, and this was my grandfather Joel's. This was his belly pocket, the 20s, Fantastic decay for him. In 1920 itself, in Antwerp, he was supplying the Olympic teams with running shoes. In 24, it was 24 and 28,. He had lots and lots of gold medals. But what stands out amongst those gold medals are three in particular. One was Harold Abrams, another one Eric Liddell and the third one was Lord Burleigh. Now they're the athletes who were actually immortalized in the film Chariots of Fire. So he made those shoes when they were actually breaking the record and earning the gold medals.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's iconic. That's awesome for the brand and for just his experience and exposure. So you and your brother were growing up and you guys knew you were going to be in the shoe industry.
Speaker 2:Well, yes, I think you know you grow up. I say we grew up through the Second World War, but my grandfather died in 1933. He was only young, he was only 53 at the time, which is a shame. I never knew him because I was born in 1935, but I am to be born on his birthday, on the 18th of May, so that's why I was called Joe as well. My grandmother said he brought his name with him, so I'm Joseph. So as Joe I grew up during the war and by 1948, my brother, jeff, he joined the Jadon Fosters, which was then Jadon Fosters and Sons the Sons, of course, had taken over and my father and uncle he joined.
Speaker 2:I didn't join until 1952. I spent a little more time at college. However, by 1953, it was time to do national service. We still had it in those days in the UK, where you did two years in the forces. I went in the RAF, jeff went in the Army and he served his two years in Germany. And what did he see? Well, he saw Adidas and Puma and what they were doing with their shoes and how they were progressing. They were becoming big names.
Speaker 2:So when we came back out to the forces in 1955, we were looking at a business, jw Foster's sons. It was a failing business. They were still stuck in the 1940s, 1930s. They were still making the same shoes, which was fine, but things were moving on and we tried to persuade them.
Speaker 2:You've got to move on, but, for whatever reasons, father and uncle did not get on well together. In fact, by the time we had done our national service, they were really fueling, hardly speaking to each other. So to try and get them to work together to change the business, to make some plans, to start some marketing, to think about the future just impossible. In fact. My father said to me look, when we're gone, um, this business will be yours. And my only response to that was I'm sorry, dad, but by the time you are gone, this business will be yours. And my only response to that was I'm sorry, dad, but by the time you are gone, this business will have gone way, way before it's dying now. So, come on, let's move on. But we couldn't. There's nothing we could do to persuade them to do anything, which really left Jeff and myself with only one decision, and that is, if we wanted a future following grandfather's example, we had to leave. So in 1958, we left and we set up our own small company just down the road in the next town.
Speaker 1:At 23 years old.
Speaker 2:Right 23 years old and Jeff was 25 at that time. Yes, but we were 23 years old. So you know, you're young, you're indestructible, you know you can do anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, whatever we can do it. And we just spent two years doing national service, which meant you learned an awful lot of independence. Yeah, you just learn the independence. So we set our company up in Bury, which was just down the road, say six miles Mercury Sports Footwear. We thought that was a good name. We had the winged messenger as our logo, which was very good. It was fine For 18 months. It was fine until our accountant, because we were doing okay, we were doing nicely, thank you. And our accountant said you better register your name, Joe, but register Mercury, because if you don't register that and other people see it's doing well, they'll copy you.
Speaker 2:Okay, oh okay, okay, we'll don't copy you, so we've got to register it. So we applied to the registrar and the registrar came back to say I'm sorry, mercury is already pre-registered by british shoe corporation, so they'll sell it to you for a thousand pounds well, oh my god, in those days you guys coming today. That's just back pocket money. But in those days it's like me. I said to you well, you can have a brand for a hundred thousand dollars, yeah it's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that was a no-no. But the patent agent who had seen, he said look, what you need is you've got to bring me about 10 names. He said because putting these through the register, you know, if you do it one by one you might be here for a long time. So let's get 10 names and let's check 10 names through. And the guy, the patent agent, I, I was in his office at the time and he pointed through the window and he pointed to a sign Kodak. I said why Kodak? He said because Kodak means nothing. It's an invented name, it's made up. It's not like Mercury. We all know what Mercury is. No, this is just an invented name. So bring me ten names.
Speaker 2:I think I went back and tried to think of one name, never mind ten names. However, we sat down there and we had lots of birds, lots of animals. But during that war 1943, I was only eight at the time I won a race and the prize was a Webster's Dictionary, an American dictionary of all things. Pretty brilliant. I don't know why during the war it would be American dictionary, but there it's an American dictionary. And at the time we were looking for names and I thought well, the letter R. I like that letter R. I'll just see what I can find in this dictionary. So I'm thumbing through the dictionary and I come across.
Speaker 1:Reebok.
Speaker 2:R-E-E-B-O-K. A small South African gazelle. Oh, gazelle rung a bell. Oh, that sounds good, that sounds brilliant. Put this at the top of the list. So, with all the others, this is the top of the list. I go back to see the patent agent and I said look, I know we've given you 10 here, but this is the one we want. We have got to be in love with this. This has got to be our passion, because, you know, we've got to make it work. And, as it happened, it's the only one that came out that we could actually register. But the registrar said I can only put you in part B of the register. What's that? Why part B? Well, they said if somebody comes to me and says we're making shoes out of Reebok skin, I can't stop them. You know we can't do anything about it. However, jordan, 20 years later, he came back to us and said we've now moved you from part B to part A. Thank God, now everybody knows that Reebok is a shoe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what a story around the name. I mean you got lucky. I mean part its luck, part of its triumph, but it I'm it's crazy that it's stuck the entire time a big part of life is luck, and a big part of our life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've had our bad times, we've had some sad times, but you've got to look and you've got to recognize when your luck comes along. And, uh, and luck has come along a few times because, um, we, we registered, of course, as rebook in 1960. Um, and it was only about three or four years after that that adidas came along because we had two stripes. They have three stripes, we have two stripes and a t-bar, yeah, and then they said, look, you're two straps in a t-bar as an infringement of our three stripes. And, like you know, either you've got to uh stop doing this or we'll sue you. Yeah, oh, we were delighted. Can you think, how did this? They've seen this. Yeah, yeah, we're a small company and added us. Now they're telling us, uh, look, we're infringing them. That's brilliant because they've noticed us.
Speaker 2:So we didn't, we didn't look at that as a bad thing. We uh looked around, got one or two ideas and came up with the arrow which, uh, you see on the side of the shoe now, and we put a lateral stripe on as well. So that brought us again a different silhouette to our shoe, and that silhouette is something that people now recognise, and recognise for a long time. But it gave us a different recognition. So, again, in many ways, whilst I just didn't like us doing what we were doing, they did us a good turn. That was another piece of luck, because we, we then, uh, we then ended up with a silhouette which was much more original than the two stripes we had.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see, and that that's amazing. I love that perspective. Where you go, the big guy. Finally they're trying to sue us by a big company and you're like, no, they noticed us, we're big company. And you're like, no, they noticed us, we're big, we're getting bigger. This is exciting. I love that perspective.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that one of the things in life that you have to have is the optimism and the view that most things that could be a problem, and seem to be a problem when it hits you, could actually be a bit more luck, a step forward, and you're going to see what you can do out of it and anything that comes along can you turn it around and can you turn that around to your advantage. So that gave us a nice advantage, but the problem was that Adidas had really taken over as the people supplying soccer. They were big in football soccer and for us to make a name in soccer would be difficult. Grandfather had been supplying a lot of the British soccer teams with training shoes and football boots, but by the time we come along, adidas had taken that, and so we had to concentrate on on what we thought we could make a name in, and that was in athletics. Yeah, how came the next piece of luck?
Speaker 2:and that piece of luck was in america running became big real big and and it became a category that was outstripping most of the sports itself in america. In days soccer didn't even apply in America, it was just playing soccer in the 50s and 60s it's a new phenomenon. That's really sort of come along. But the first time I went to the States was in 1968.
Speaker 2:In 1968, our government in fact invited people from the sports trade to participate in the NSGA show National Sporting Goods Association in Chicago and they said look, we'll pay for the stand, we'll pay for your return, earth rights and we'll pay half of your hotel bill. Okay, you know, with that sort of offer you can't refuse, can you really?
Speaker 1:You've got to go to America.
Speaker 2:You've got to go, and you know what an adventure. Yeah, absolutely, why not yeah? And so I went with a friend who had an outdoor camping shop and he came along with he had a, a climbing boot, a rock climbing boot, which we had actually, we were making the climbing boot at the time, okay, the lightweight boots, we were making that. And we, we went to the nsga and got to the show. People loved our shoes. Yeah, where do I get your shoes from when they're getting from england, england? Well, new england, no, no, no, no, no, no. We we talk about across the pond, across the atlantic, there, england, you know, england in europe, oh right, well, when you, when you get somebody over here stuck in the shoes, we'll take them because they're really good.
Speaker 2:However, bob, who was the outdoors man and that he did get a few boots, he got quite a few orders for that and I think the reason is that the outdoor business were used to importing from europe skis and things like that. Ski boots, you know, I think that was something they were used to doing, but athletic shoes, running shoes, no, they didn't, uh, they didn't do that. So it took me until 1979. That's 11 years. I keep going, keep knocking on the door hello, hello, america, I'm coming, I'm here. And the reason it took that time is we needed to find the key. You know, I, I People, will buy your shoe if they need to buy your shoe. If they don't, they won't make the effort, it's okay if it's not. So we needed a key and the key came through Runner's World.
Speaker 2:Runner's World was the running magazine that had really started the craze and really was the Bible. Everybody looked at Runner's World, everybody looked at the shoes in Runner's World, and Runner's World rated those shoes. At first they were rating them number one, two, three, four, five and number one. All of a sudden, when they actually I think it was the august edition was the shoe edition, when they uh, when it came out with that, everybody wanted the number one shoe. Yeah, well, of course, you know whoever that was maybe nike, maybe new balance, bro whoever was number one at the time had no chance of fulfilling all the requirements, the numbers that everybody wanted their shoe. So it took a couple of years, but with a bit of pressure on Bob Anderson, who was the publisher of Runner's World, he sort of gave way and he decided he would do five stars or star ratings, five star was the best one, working down to four, three, two and one, whatever it was. And so the key for me was to get a five star, yeah.
Speaker 2:And in 1978, we had designed a shoe, aztec, which we launched for the Commonwealth Games in Edmonton. And we got quite a few goals. We had a good time with that. So by January of 1979, nsga show, again in February in Chicago, we had the show. We had the shoe there into the show. Lots of good comments, yeah, like that shoe. Kmart K out wanted 25,000 birds. Well, yes, okay.
Speaker 2:But Paul Feynman came along and we sort of hit it off right from day one. Yeah, he, he was a good guy and reasonable. And he said, joe, I'd like to, yeah, sell your shoes, but we need a five-star shoe, we need something that we can sell. And I said, paul, I think we've got a five-star shoe, but we've got to wait until, uh, august, when the shoes waiting to come out, yeah, and it was uh early on I I don't know what day, but I think it probably comes out just before august.
Speaker 2:And uh, we knew the day was coming out and I rang Paul. I said, paul, can you nip down to the kiosk and just buy the runners' world and let's see where we are with this. An hour later he came back Joe, we got five stars. Oh, brilliant, we were over the moon. That's sort of one of those days that you want to dream of. And he also said but your other two shoes got five stars as well. That was a track spike and a racing shoe. That was the key, and Paul Feinman was the door. We now had access to the USM market, which was the big market.
Speaker 1:RAOUL PAL. At this point, you have three five-star shoes, which gives you the authority. And then paul is the who. Where does paul? He's the salesman or he's the financer?
Speaker 2:no, paul was uh, paul with his uh, his brother and his brother-in-law. They were running a small distribution company called boston camping. Okay, and boston camp. And I thought, well, fair enough, he's got distribution in usa, the bolt on the rebar product, and we've got distribution. Um, but, however, when I went back next time to see paul, they just dissolved the camping company and paul on own he would be the distributor. So he set up the Reebok distribution for USA.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, so it was a partnership that came in. They had the distribution. Let's set this up. We'll make the shoes here.
Speaker 2:He got a license. We gave him the license to do the distribution. Yeah. The problem now is, of course, that we're a smallish company still. If we came out on 25,000 birds, that would have taken us six months to produce. Oh, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:However, I mean, we knew this. We knew that if we were going to hit the American market, we needed to get some volume. So we needed assistance. And I'd already been talking to Barta, who are probably the biggest shoe company in the world if you take all the manufacturing. They had a place in the UK, down near London, and they were willing to make some shoes for me. But I'd also been talking to an agent of some South Korean production people that came upmart said, yes, they'd take 25,000 pairs, but they needed them at a better price, a much better price than we could produce in the UK. Yeah, and when we talked to the people in South Korea, yes, we could get it there for less than half the price of production in the UK. So we now had two things to do we had to get production. We had to also look at getting cheaper production, which was fine.
Speaker 2:However, my biggest problem happened when jeff, my brother at that point, he got, got ill, he got sick and he died. So sorry, ah well, I mean, it was the saddest day at that time. It was terrible, but again it wasn't a question that you can just sit down there and just forget. No, it probably spurred me on more Really, though we made this a success. Yeah, and I had to bring people in to run the factory. And then Geoff would have actually taken on the job of going to Barter to get Barter to make the shoes the way he would make them in the factory. He concentrated on working in the factory. I was concentrating on sales marketing, advancing the company. He would have done that. Well, I had to do that instead of him. He would have also gone toa to set things up out there.
Speaker 2:But I had taken I'd taken a trip to korea in 1979, in november, and seeing the product. The product was great. Uh, in the book it's an adventure that going out to to korea because I had a special ticket. It was around the world in 80 days or less. It was class standby and it was a Pan Am ticket. Pan Am had two planes One went east and one went west around the globe. All the time just kept going around the globe, either east or west, and one hour went almost east. But that's a good story, it's part of the story in the book, but what happened then? Is that, okay, the South Koreans, their production.
Speaker 2:There would be some time before we could start on that, because they needed at least I think it was 250 pairs a day to go through just one production line, and before that happened, we got barter going, so bararta would be a little more expensive, and we got 20,000 pairs to satisfy the demand that Paul Feynman was then receiving. The unfortunate problem is, though, that we'd been using a new cushion material for the sole, which was EVA, and Barta big company. They had their own rubber factory as well. They put the EVA, they started putting the EVA through the rubber factory. Unfortunately, being so new, they hadn't checked out the curing times or something. And these shoes, when Paul got them, they started coming back. The midsole were collapsing. Oh no, not all of them, but the bottom line to this is he never paid for the 20 000 pairs of shoes he got, which helped him, which helped him get through the period until the south korean production came up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now here is another problem, because once south korea comes on there on, there's no credit line from South Korea. You've got a credit line from Barta and that's okay so you could afford it, but there's no credit line in South Korea. You've got to put your money up or you've got to get a letter of credit, which means your bank has got to put the money up, and so it was a test. Then how do we finance this? So we talked about was Paul the financer. His money soon went, but he was 100% behind this and by good fortune, I mean, we met one or two people to try and finance the company. One of the companies, in fact, had turned down Nike when Nike was looking for finance Really, and his response was well, I don't want to be the guy that backed the wrong company. Well, he didn't. He didn't back either company.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Along came Stephen Rubin. Stephen Rubin is Pentland. They're a British company, a good-sized British company. But Stephen Rubin had a number of companies. In fact he's called Mr Sneaker now because he owns a lot of things. But in those days he had a company in Hong Kong in the Far East, called Asco, an associated shoe company, and they were actually doing the sourcing out there in Korea. That was their job. They did sourcing and they sold to major retailers at a better price than anybody from the UK could do it. So he came along and he took a piece of the company. But the main thing that he did is he gave Paul a credit line. So once Paul had that credit line, it meant he could order the shoes. He didn't have to pay. He could start to deliver against those masses of orders that were coming in. So that was again finding the right person, having the luck. In fact, I've just sent Stephen a book Only today. We posted it off to Stephen. He's anxious to see what I've written about him, I think. So along came Stephen, and that really gave the finance that Paul needed to do.
Speaker 2:The American market that had been my goal Get the American market. If we get that, that's the biggest influence globally for the product. I knew that once we got that market globally, we were going to be big. However, we even had a bigger stroke of luck because, whilst this was going very nicely, we had a guy down in Los Angeles who was a tech rep. He was a Reebok tech rep and a runner. He himself was quite good at that, but he was also a salesman. And he was down there and his wife Frankie his wife Frankie was going to these aerobic classes with her girlfriends and they were all coming back, oh, full of this, brilliant, wonderful. So I said to them, what is this aerobic? And they said it's. It's exercise into music and, of course, it's like dancing. So I thought I want a piece of this, I'm.
Speaker 2:And he went down there and to see what was happening, and the instructor was there. She, she wore probably pair running shoes and half the glass were either plimsolls or running shoes. The other half had nothing. Yeah, for arnold, this was a another light bulb moment. Another key was happening here. It was why don't we produce these girls a shoe which fits like a glove, very comfortable. So for this, especially for aerobics, what year is this? Uh, we're talking about 1982. Okay, 82, and then I mean, that was the birth of the freestyle and it was the freestyle that all of a sudden, uh, and it took quite a while for it to sort of grow and grow out of la and become more national, but it grew rapidly and what it was is that Reebok, whilst we were becoming known as a running shoe, we were not like adidas, not like nike yeah, we're male, sweaty, we were female. This, all of a sudden, reebok was owned by women and women owned Reebok and those shoes.
Speaker 2:The sales went from 9 million, 30 million, 90 million, 300 million to 900 million Massive sales in successive years, and this was absolutely taking us apart, fantastic. So the financing had stopped being a problem. Now the problem was getting the product. Where do you find the product to meet that sort of number? And again, this is where your luck comes in. Both Adidas and Nike had hit a bit of a wall. They were both finding things a bit difficult. I think the running market had slowed a bit, so Nike had to pull out of two or three of the factories in South Korea, which meant there was a gap we could move in. So once they moved out, we moved in, and that's the only way we could have ever met those numbers, because they were fantastic Wow.
Speaker 1:Wow. So because there's not that many factories and all the factories are getting taken out.
Speaker 2:Well, you can't grow it, you can't build a factory that quickly, you can't train people that quickly. It's just a matter of that. You have to have space, and that's how space arrived. All started in Los Angeles, in Hollywood, and very soon. Jane Fonda was doing her videos wearing Reebok. Oh wow, this is what caused the big explosion. Sybil Shepard she was wearing orange high tops to pick up her Emmy Awards and at this, time?
Speaker 1:were you paying them, or they just chose to do that for the fashion statement?
Speaker 2:They were doing this, because they were doing this, because they loved the idea of wearing these shoes. You didn't have to pay them. Give them a few pairs of shoes and they were happy, happy, happy. I think that's a bit different now, yeah, very different. I think it's a bit of that. I think I think you have to buy your way in now. You have to. Your influence is well paid these days.
Speaker 2:Yeah, these influencers were just just a notoriety. There were such, uh, stars and then we um a guy called wendell niles. He was an ambassadorial out of the hollywood area and he knew all the stars though. He frank, oh, really everybody down there. And, uh, he got us involved in monte carlo. Okay, uh, in the um, it was the Princess Grace Foundation that we had a pro celebrity tennis tournament and, of course, nobody turned down an invite. So we had every star you can imagine coming along there Sean Connery, roger Moore, john Forsyth and John Forsyth is a nice guy, really nice guy. He'd turn up at any of the events that we were putting on. He was a super guy. So this sort of just took the Reebok brand into style. We became on the feet of everybody and everybody wore them. They wanted to wear them on the street, and this is I think it was something like we were 80% of all Americans at that time bought themselves a pair of Reebok.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, wow that is influential yeah.
Speaker 2:By late, late 80s, we became number one. We overtook Adidas, we overtook Nike and we became the number one sports brand globally, which is great. And by well, the end of 1989, I retired. Oh really yeah. Well, you know, by that time the company had got so big, yeah, Lots and lots of, because you need to grow. I mean, you can't get to those volumes without having a lot of people a lot of people.
Speaker 2:So it got very big. I was approaching 55, and I decided that you know, this is a young man's game, yeah, and it's also a numbers game. They were different and numbers were not my game. I was more into the marketing to the growth of the brand. That was more what I was into. So I decided time for me to go.
Speaker 1:And the one thing, because I knew that you took it from this small shop in London and you made it, like you said, the number one goal rent. How was managing that transition? Because you have to have completely different skills.
Speaker 2:Well, you do. Once we got Paul Feynman on board in the United States and Paul and I, we had a good agreement he would look after America, because I knew the better he did in America that would drive the rest of the world and I would look after the rest of the world. I would put on. I would globally put on all these different distributions around the world, which was not a difficult job to do, providing Paul did a good job. Yeah, paul did a good job. Yeah, paul did a fantastic job. So I was traveling the world building the distribution and by the time I retired, the distribution for globally, apart from America, had gone over the billion-dollar mark. Oh, wow. So we had a big distribution and at that time I think it was decided that really we were doing this in the UK, we were doing it globally in the UK and America was on its own. It was decided that everything would go try and put it under one roof in America.
Speaker 2:So, really the need for globally to be done was beginning to end and I didn't want to go and spend time just sitting on an airplane which it had become that way I was flying probably two or three times a month globally. I was just going around.
Speaker 1:It was just becoming tedious and exhausting.
Speaker 2:And when you arrive at the airport they pick you up in a limousine, you go down to the best hotel, you sit and you have meals, you talk and then you get another plane. So you know the thrill, the energy it needs to develop the brand and to grow the brand. Now it had moved into something else and it had moved into a big machine which was almost automatic. It didn't really need. It was not then as entertaining. It was fantastic that we became number one and once you've achieved some goals you've got to say well, where do you go from there? You know we'd achieve the goal, become a number one, probably more than my dreams have been. When we set off just Jeff and myself, two people making a pair of shoes. When we set off just Jeff and myself, two people making a pair of shoes and 30 years later you're number one brand globally. That's incredible. Yeah, where do you go from that? You retire and spend some time sitting on a beach.
Speaker 1:Well, almost so. I was going to actually ask how was that transition? Because it seems like you are not a. You are an empowering of people. You empower to the people that you hire to go and just do them like you're not micromanaging them at all. So how is that transition for you?
Speaker 2:well it's, it's difficult and it's easy. It's like you know you. All of a sudden you think, wow, wow, it would be good not to be at 35,000 feet two or three times a month, yeah, good. And yet when you do stop it, it's like where's the next ticket Housing, I'm not flying anymore. You know, it's like it's been a drug. It's inside you. Your DNA has changed. It's now. Why am I not doing this? And so I mean I was seeing everybody regularly because I went to all the NSGAs and all the ISPO. Ispo is the European equivalent of what NSGA is so you knew everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're the true guy.
Speaker 2:Instead of having a hands-on day-to-day, I was able to now just go around to the exhibitions, meet all the people and spend some time with them and enjoy that part of it instead of being a physical part, instead of a physical control. So for many years it was nice to taper off, spend some time away from it and just enjoy. And yeah, I still like travel. We still travel Normally. Normally we would be in in europe right now probably right now we're talking about october um, probably in can or something like that, in south of france. And yeah, I mean people down there. But we used to go through, drive through germany, switzerland, france, italy, and meet all the people and spend some time talking to our distribution that used to be the distribution I put on and just spend some time in Italy, in Verresi, at the top of Sacramento, just sitting there looking over the lakes and enjoying a nice glass of Italian wine.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. There's nothing better than that.
Speaker 2:So it's not too difficult to retire, is it?
Speaker 1:Not at all. Not at all when you got what you need. You know what I mean. So how long have you been working on the book and what's the book?
Speaker 2:What's the book? Well, the book is really a lot about me rather than about Reebok. It is Reebok, but it's how I developed and went through Reebok, what it did for me, and it's not just simply how many shoes Reebok could make and the different things Reebok did. Now I think I find it very well. Most people find it very interesting because it's more of a human story than a business story, and I started writing this about seven years ago. The reason I started writing is that I read in the press, I read in Wikipedia, I read in sports magazines about people telling me how Reebok started. And it's wrong. It's so wrong.
Speaker 2:So many people keep saying well, you know, there's JJ McFoster's sons and the grandsons. They had a bright idea and changed the name. Well, we didn't change the name, we had to leave and we had to set up our own company. So, yes, the family, the family tradition, which is the DNA I have, of course, dates back to 1895 and just probably beyond that to my grandfather. So we share that family DNA, but not the company name. Yeah, and so it just needed the story just needed putting straight. Now I hope this is what it does it puts the story straight and instead of people guessing as to what happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And then the best thing about a book when it comes out is that generations and generations and generations. Everyone knows it.
Speaker 2:Well, it was on October 1st. It's now available in America through Amazon. It is now available in the USA. Edible in America through Amazon. Okay, it's now available in the USA, but if anybody wants one signed or dedicated because of COVID and lack of travel, they can come onto my website, which is the jwfosterheritagecom. Go onto the website and they can buy a book. They can buy more than a book and I will sign them. So we've already sent lots and lots and lots over to America and around the world and I think we've got 600 books now signed.
Speaker 1:Oh wow. So if people want a signed book, they go to jwheritagecom.
Speaker 2:I'll drop that in the show notes too, jw Foster.
Speaker 1:JW Foster Heritage and I'll drop that in the show notes too. Okay, so everyone can grab that, because who doesn't want a signed copy? It's so unique and cool.
Speaker 2:Well, we can arrange for you to have a couple of these.
Speaker 1:Oh, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait. So a couple more questions. When did you feel because there's so many people listening right now that are like, until I get here, I'm gonna make it and I feel like I'm accomplished when did you feel like you guys made it with reebok? Was there ever a feeling or? Was always more and more and more um, well, it's almost step by step.
Speaker 2:Sometimes they're very small steps, but I think that when we got the five stars for Aztec, that was the key that opened the market. Once we'd opened the market at the USA, I knew we'd made it. That's what I knew. So that was the first one. And, of course, achieving uh, achieving number one, uh, sports brand globally, that was a fantastic thing. But I mean by then you've made it. If you're talking about when, when do you know? Look, there are lots of entrepreneurs and lots of people have brilliant ideas and lots of them will never make it, but that should not deter you from trying, because so many people will say, no, you can't do that. You can't do that. If you talk to people, yeah, you don't have a plan from day one that takes you to become globally number one.
Speaker 2:You don't have that plan, your plan is really, how do we get the next step? And then the next step. So you take the plans and if somebody said, well, you know those, those plans are, oh, they're too much dreams, it's too much imagination. Don't worry, keep on, you've got to do it. If you can, if you can dream it, you can make it. And this is from the founder of Reebok. He's saying if you can.
Speaker 1:If you can dream it, you can make it. I love that, and this is from the founder of revox. He's saying if you can dream it, you can make it, which that should inspire everyone to go after their dreams.
Speaker 2:I love that, joe. Yes, hopefully.
Speaker 1:I love that, joe. And now my last question is what do you think the major distinction is between those who do make it and don't make it? Is it just that they try?
Speaker 2:I think. I think what you've got to do, of course, to make it big. Usually it means you're going to have a big company, yeah, which means you've got to have a big team. And if you're going to make it, you've got to be, you've got to be able to build that team it. You've got to be able to build that team and you've got to be able to step back, piece by piece, to allow that team to run the company, because you can't do it yourself, the less you yourself have to do. At the end you should have nothing to do. You should have a good team and let them come to you, but you know you don't want them to come to you. You must tell them don't come to me with a problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Come to me with the answer. Yeah, and if you have a problem with maybe two answers, we'll discuss it. Yeah, We'll figure the best one, but you know you're not there to answer everybody's problems. That's not what you're there for. You take a team on because they can do it better than you. If you can do it better than them, then you do it. But you need people who can do it better than you, and I had a number of people and they're still good friends who really can do things better than I can do things. Possibly the best thing I could do was to help bring them together as a team.
Speaker 1:I love that. It's the connector, so we need to have a strong team if you want to make it big. I love it.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Joe, you're awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:It's been a pleasure. Yeah, why don't you send me your address and we'll get you a book?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. Joe, I appreciate that you can do that with Julie. Absolutely Will do. Okay, awesome, it's been a pleasure.