Brian Amaya - Former Al. Co. PD / Dodger Fan (Nobody's Perfect)

lovethylawyer.com

A transcript of this podcast is available at lovethylawyer.com.

Brain Amaya
Law Offices of Melanie Abea
Junior Partner / Socio Menor
brian@abealaw.com



 Attorney at a Private Criminal Defense Firm started by former Deputy Public Defender, Seth Morris 2021 - 2024

EXPERIENCE Deputy Public Defender Positions held in the office: Misdemeanor Trial Staff Attorney, Preliminary Hearing Team Attorney, Felony Trial Staff Attorney, Juvenile Trial Staff Attorney, and Law and Motions Attorney Was lead counsel for over a thousand criminal cases. Each case required analyzing all relevant discovery, requesting and conducting the necessary investigations, filing and litigating the necessary pre-trial motions (including motions to suppress evidence and preliminary hearings), and preparing the matters for trial, all the while making sure that my clients felt heard and that their needs were met Was lead counsel in ten life cases, including three homicides As the Law and Motions Attorney, I oversaw the entire motions department for the office's Oakland Branch Office and acted as a Mentor/Supervisor to younger Misdemeanor Trial Attorneys and Interns/Post Bars Conducted a number of Interviews with Spanish Speaking Media Outlets Alameda County Public Defender's Office | 2011-2021

Supervising Attorney - Youth Justice Team As Supervising Attorney, I supervised all Staff Attorneys on the Team, second in command to the Managing Attorney. Supervision included weekly staff meetings, weekly individual meetings, trainings, trial prep and support, and evaluations. I also maintained a case load, specializing quasi-criminal matters such as school suspension and expulsion matters. Senior Attorney Senior Attorney at a Private Criminal Defense Firm started by former 

Acting President, 2019 Vice President,
2020 Board Member,
2015-Present President,
2021-Present El Centro Legal’s Youth Law Academy
Mock Trial Coach 2023-Present  

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Louis Goodman
www.louisgoodman.com
https://www.lovethylawyer.com/
510.582.9090
Music: Joel Katz, Seaside Recording, Maui
Tech: Bryan Matheson, Skyline Studios, Oakland
Audiograms: Paul Roberts

louis@lovethylawyer.com

Transcript

Note: Brian Amaya is now with the Law Offices of Melanie Abea. The transcript reflects his employment at the time of the interview.


Louis Goodman / Brian Amaya - Transcript

Louis Goodman 00:03 

Welcome to Love Thy Lawyer, where we talk with attorneys about their lives and careers. I'm Louis Goodman. Today we welcome Brian Amaya to the podcast. Brian is currently a senior attorney at Morris Law, P.C. He works as a lead attorney in both misdemeanor and felony cases. Before entering private practice, Brian served as an Alameda County Public Defender.

He is currently the president of the East Bay La Raza Lawyers Association and a mock trial coach to the El Centro Legal Youth Academy. Brian Amaya, welcome to Love Thy Lawyer. 

Brian Amaya 00:46 

Thank you so much Mr. Goodman. I'm really excited to be here. It's an absolute pleasure and an honor. 

Louis Goodman 00:52 

Thank you for being here. I really appreciate being able to talk to local attorneys. We were talking about that a little bit offline before we started, but I really do appreciate getting the attorneys who practice in the Alameda County Courts on the podcast. Where are you speaking to us from right now? 

Brian Amaya 01:11 

I'm actually in my office. We're located in Berkeley, which is great for Alameda County cases, but also close to Contra Costa cases. We have plenty of those. So it's pretty centrally located. We're right off the Gilman exit on 880, which is wonderful. 

Louis Goodman 01:26 

So near the border of the United States? 

Brian Amaya 01:29 

You know, sometimes it feels that way. I tell people, you know, now that I've practiced both in Alameda County and Contra Costa, it's like that line between Albany and El Cerrito, it's, it's real, it's a real line, it's a big distinction. 

Louis Goodman 01:42 

How long have you been a lawyer? 

Brian Amaya 01:44 

I started practicing law in 2011, so 13 years now, 12, 13 years. 

Louis Goodman 01:51 

Can you describe what kind of practice you have now? How would, how do you describe it? 

Brian Amaya 01:57 

I am a criminal defense attorney. I do everything from misdemeanors all the way up to felonies, serious cases, homicides, and things like that. I did, after leaving the Public Defender's Office, I did do some civil practice for barrier legal aid. So I do do some civil work that is quasi criminal. So I do things like expulsions and suspensions at schools.

I do Title IX cases at UCs and Cal States and things that are like close to being criminal, but are civil in nature. 

Louis Goodman 02:31 

Where are you from originally? 

Brian Amaya 02:32 

I'm born and raised LA. Born and raised South Central Los Angeles, lived there until came up here for law school and then never left. 

Louis Goodman 02:42 

Did you go to high school in Los Angeles?

Brian Amaya 02:43 

I did. I went to North Torrance High School, home of the Saxons. And then I was blessed enough to get into my all-time dream school, which was UCLA. And I got to go there, and it was, it was amazing. And then after UCLA, I came up here. 

Louis Goodman 02:59 

When you graduated from UCLA, obviously you went to law school. Did you take some time off or did you go straight through?

Brian Amaya 03:07 

I went straight through Mr. Goodman. And I tell people that there are two serious mistakes that I've made in my life. One was not studying abroad when I was in college. And the second one being going straight through from college to law school. My biggest advice to people who come to me and they're like, Hey, I want to go to law school. I'm like, great, go take a year, go take two years off, go do something else. Because once you become a lawyer, once you finish law school, you are a lawyer and there's no turning back and there's no time to do other things. You are in the thick of things. 

Louis Goodman 03:40 

Where'd you go to law school? 

Brian Amaya 03:41 

What's it called now? University of California, School of Law, San Francisco. When I went there it was Hastings. 

Louis Goodman 03:48 

Yeah, when I went there it was Hastings. 

Brian Amaya 03:51 

It's such a mouthful too now. It's such a long name. 

Louis Goodman 03:54 

I always thought that Hastings was kind of like high school, you know, like you'd go down there and it's a big school. You had a locker in the basement, you know, it was kind of, it was very different than college.

Brian Amaya 04:05 

It was such an interesting culture shock for me. I'd never, you know, spent much time in the Bay and moving from UCLA to the Tenderloin, it was night and day, but I can't imagine going to law school anywhere else. I loved Hastings. I mean, I'm one of those weird people who really enjoyed school. And if possible, I would still be in school learning because learning is like the best thing to do.

And so I was definitely enjoying my three years at Hastings. And, you know, I try my best to go down there and look at the building every so often, looked at two buildings. Now there's two buildings, but yeah, it was a great place to go to law school for sure. 

Louis Goodman 04:42 

Yeah, I had a very good experience there, too, which was fortunate. When did you first really start thinking about being a lawyer? And then when did you actually apply to go to law school? 

Brian Amaya 04:56 

I am one of those people who was blessed to know early on that they wanted to be a lawyer. In eighth grade knew I was going to go to law school. I spent the four years of high school working really hard to get into the best college. And when I got into the best college, I spent those four years trying to get into the best law school because I knew in my heart that that's what I wanted to do. I want, I knew first off, it was my skillset. I can talk and I can write. And so I knew that, you know, very young is like, this is what I want to do with my life.

I went to law school wanting to help people. That was like a big driving force for me, wanting to serve, wanting to help my community and the people around me. And, you know, I grew up in South Central Los Angeles, grew up in a immigrant household of single mother. And so for me, I had very negative relationship with like the police and a very negative relationship with the court system.

I was never, you know, in trouble as a juvenile, I was a very smart kid, you know, nerd, nerd, nerd. I was carrying around books, all, all that. But I, you know, in South Central Los Angeles, I had, I was detained by police officers for just being who I was, right. Which was a, a very tall and, and, and sort of big brown, you know, kid.

And so, and, and I had very negative relationship with the police and very negative relationship with the courts. And so for me I always had an idea of like, I don't like this. And I wanted to change that. And that led me to become a public defender and led me to do now all the time that I've spent serving, you know, the Bay Area as a lawyer.

Louis Goodman 06:35 

Was there some specific incident in the eighth grade that. Prompted the thinking about becoming a lawyer. It was just at that time that things began to gel in your mind. 

Brian Amaya 06:44 

I think eighth grade was when I started realizing that I was going to be unable to keep up with my colleagues who were doing great at AP science and AP math.

Like that's where that, that's when you start like seventh grade. I was, you know, I, again, I was a kid who was doing honors, doing AP classes. That was my life. I spent the entire time like gearing up for school. And so that's when I started realizing, I don't like I'm missing a step here and there. I'm starting to not be at that top level.

And so that's when I really started realizing I really loved to write. I think that was the first sort of love I had was writing and I still to this day, like my favorite part of practicing law is when I can sit down in front of a computer and write something. I think there's something so beautiful about writing, but then also when you start writing and you start writing essays and you start, they start teaching you how to argue. I love that aspect. I love the idea of like, here's a thought, here's take a position and run with it. And so that's sort of in eighth grade is when I started realizing that that's, that's where my brain focused on. 

Louis Goodman 07:56 

Did you realize at that time how much writing lawyers do?

Brian Amaya 08:01 

No, I didn't. And it was kind of a happy coincidence that it ended up being that way. At some point in college and then in law school, you start writing a lot. And then you start realizing in law school, it's like, okay, this is a big part of the practice. And luckily at the Public Defender's Office, I spent time doing law and motions for them.

And that was one of my favorite times as a Public Defender was sitting down and reading cases, and I still read cases to this day, Mr. Goodman, like, I get alerts on new cases, nothing is better than new case days, and you're just like, oh, I love this fact pattern, or here's my next motion date, or next time I argue for the court, I'm going to cite this new case. It's wonderful. 

Louis Goodman 08:41 

What was your path from Hastings to the Alameda County Public Defender's Office? 

Brian Amaya 08:46 

I was really lucky. So my first year in law school, I did death penalty appeals work for the California Appellate Project. And then the next year, you know, I very soon, you know, I think after my first year I knew I was gonna be a Public Defender, so I started applying at Public Defender's Office for my second year of, you know, summer and something, I don't know what it was, you're gonna, you know, if you ever interview Brendan you can ask him, but he saw something and me and gave me a shot.

And so I did my second summer at the Public Defender's Office. Came back, did my post barship there. And, you know, I was one of the four last lawyers hired by Diane Belles before she, you know, let the public defender's office shout out to Diane, wherever she is, she hired me and, you know, the, the, the funny thing was, is people would tell you like, the interview went well with Diane if she hugs you at the end of it. And I remember that at the end of the interview, she hugged me and I was like, Oh, I hope, you know, this seems good. And yeah, I got hired straight out of law school. And you know, at age 24, I was Alameda County Public Defender. 

Louis Goodman 09:57 

I was actually the last Deputy District Attorney hired by Lowell Jensen in Alameda County.

And I had a very successful interview with Jack Meehan, but I can't say that he hugged me at the end of the interview. 

Brian Amaya 10:10 

Yeah, you know, Diane, you know, was a very special person and, you know, they just said, if she hugs you, you're in. And she did. 

Louis Goodman 10:19 

What is it that you really like about practicing law? I mean, you're a bright guy. You write well, you read well, you have good social skills. What is it that you like about practicing law that keeps you as an attorney? 

Brian Amaya 10:33 

And I know it's not, this is very specific to me. I love. Serving others. I love working for somebody else. I could never do a corporate gig where I worked for an entity or this inauguration, like this corporation, I couldn't do it. I need to know who I'm fighting for and, and stand by that person and really go for it. So I think, I think what drives me is my clients, the love and care that I have for them, because at the end of the day, Mr. Goodman, my clients look like me, sound like me, they came from the same sort of social economic situation as me. They're no different than me, except I got lucky and didn't get in trouble and was born with with the brains to do what I'm doing. And so for me, I think that's what drives me is being able to serve my clients. 

Louis Goodman 11:28 

If a young person was coming out of college or in high school, even thinking about a career, would you recommend the law to a young person who was thinking about it? 

Brian Amaya 11:38 

Yes and no. If somebody really wants to be a lawyer, I would say, do it. I would be the first person being like, this is great. I think this is wonderful. If there's somebody who comes to me and goes, I'm thinking of becoming a lawyer, I would be like, I think again, because the, the legal profession is a hard profession. It is taxing. It is demanding. It requires so much from somebody. And so what I tell people is unless you're sure, if you're sure then welcome to the club because this is a wonderful job. It's a wonderful profession. I love it But if for those people who sort of like halfway in halfway out or wondering if maybe this is it It's not, because it's that much work, it's that much demand. It's you know, Mr. Goodman this job is hard We have a hard and very difficult job that takes a lot of out of us not only physically but mentally and spiritually I mean there are days where I feel defeated, and there are days where I feel jubilation that rollercoaster can be a lot for somebody who is just maybe thinking about becoming a lawyer.

Louis Goodman 12:48 

I think lawyers are born rather than made. I've spoken to a lot of lawyers for this podcast and that's one thing that I just kind of keep picking up on is that I think people who are lawyers sort of know their lawyers at a very early age. 

Brian Amaya 13:04 

I wouldn't be able to disagree with that. I really do feel like this is a calling, you know, and then all the professions are, I don't, I don't think, you know, people who become doctors, they're, that's a calling. Like being a lawyer is a calling. You know it. It's in your bones. It's in your DNA. There's something about you drives you to be a lawyer. And that's what's going to get you through this job. Because it is taxing. It is demanding, you know, it's a lot. 

Louis Goodman 13:31 

How is actually practicing law met or differed from your expectations?

Brian Amaya 13:35 

Oh, that's a good question. I think one of the things that when you see when you're starting off or you see TV or anything, there's like this mystique about practicing law. It's like this like show almost. It's like this whole different universe that is separate from the world. It's, you know, it's like life, but not life. It's very, but, but it turns out it, it, it really isn't. We put on suits and we go, we go and we argue, but we're really human beings. The judge is a human being. The person on the other side is a human being. There's errors. There's mistakes. There's all of that. And so you realize like, it's not, I mean, yes, it's different, but it's not really, it's, it's really much, it's, it's a part of life. It's real life. And I think that that was something that hit me very early on in my career. There was a part of me that thought that, that I was playing something different, that I was, then when I went to court, I was putting on a mask and I was being somebody else.

I wasn't, I was being a lawyer. I was playing the part of a lawyer and. Okay. You know, I would talk differently. I would say things differently. And now that I'm, you know, older and much more veteran, the difference between lawyer me and regular me is gone. I act and am who I am in real life in court, and I'm not apologetic about it.

And I think that that was a wonderful thing to realize. Like I can be myself. I can be my true, honest self and also be a lawyer. 

Louis Goodman 15:11 

Yeah. But did Brian from LA take over the lawyer, or did the lawyer mentality get into the brain of Brian from LA and take over Brian from LA? 

Brian Amaya 15:27 

Yeah, I don't know the answer to that question. All I know is that now there is no mask. And it's true, Mr. Goodman, I'll be honest with you, when I first started practicing law, I spoke differently. I acted differently because I thought there was this idea of what a lawyer is supposed to act and sound like and do. And that is gone now. I am not anybody but myself. And it's wonderful. And it's wonderful to be respected for being myself. My genuine self and, you know, if a young attorney, you know, and I get to talk to a lot of young attorneys, if they ever, you know, ask me for advice, I tell them, be true to yourself, be who you are. Everybody practices law in their own way. Don't be anybody but yourself. Don't try to be who you think a lawyer is supposed to be, because that's not true. And once you learn that, then you can truly be like. Comfortable in your skin and in court, which is what we all strive to do in a courtroom. 

Louis Goodman 16:30 

You were a Public Defender for a while, and you certainly learned some legal chops as a Public Defender. And then you went into the private practice of law with some other people. How has that gone for you? How has the business of practicing law gone for you? 

Brian Amaya 16:48 

It's interesting. I think first off being a Public Defender was by far like such an honor and one of the best jobs, if not the best job I've ever had.

There is a shift that happens when you do enter private practice. Not only are you traveling to different courtrooms in different counties that have different rules that don't talk the same language that you would talk. You know, you were taught to talk in Alameda County, do things very differently. And you have to learn all that.

So there's this new learning curve all of a sudden where sometimes you're walking in and you're just like flabbergasted that this is what's happening. But also there is this business aspect, right? There is the idea that now I am working for a retainer or for payment. And it does change the conversation a little bit, right?

It does change what how that goes and if you're a Public Defender and you never have to have that conversation, it is jarring to have it. And so to this date, I still have trouble with, with, with, you know, talking about retainer and, and, and, and being hired as an attorney. 

Louis Goodman 17:54 

Is there anything that, you know, now that you really wished you knew before you started practicing law?

Brian Amaya 17:59 

Yes. I wish somebody would have sat me down and would have explained that being a lawyer is a 24/7 job. I think most people, most children, most youth are taught that you have a job and you have your life outside of work, you have a family or hobbies and things like that. And when you become a lawyer, you realize like that distinction is gone.

You are, even if you're at home on a weekend, you could be sitting there gardening and all of a sudden your, a case pops into your brain and you're like, Oh, I need to do this. I need you to do that. Or I should think about doing this. I should think about doing that. I've been on vacation and had that happen, right? I'm supposed to be not working. I'm supposed to be taking time to myself. I'm sitting on some beach with a margarita in my hand. And all of a sudden I'm like, Oh, I really should get that piece of discovery that I need. Or I, how about this case that might apply to your case? Being a lawyer means you're working all the time, even when you don't want it, because that's the, that's the legal profession. It requires you to be at all times thinking and wondering and trying to. You know, master your craft. And so I wish somebody would have explained to me, cause when you're, you're a kid, you have vacation, school stops. There were, you know, semesters end and there are times where you're not doing anything. You're just resting and, and, and taking time to yourself. And, you know, I can't remember the last day in my life that I didn't have at least a single thought about work since I became a lawyer. 

Louis Goodman 19:41 

Well, I think that's part of the melding process of, you know, Brian and the lawyer coming together or Louis and the lawyer coming together and then just kind of being one entity. 

Brian Amaya 19:54 

Right, right, totally. And you go to law school, you get taught to think like a lawyer, but law school doesn't teach you what it is to be a lawyer. That's something that you learn by being a lawyer and nowhere in law school do they go, hey, by the way, your brain will always be thinking about your cases going forward. Like this is the rest of your life until I guess you stop practicing.

Louis Goodman 20:15 

So you're from LA. What was the TV show that was your lawyer show? 

Brian Amaya 20:22 

There was this show called Ally McBeal on Fox. And I remember thinking like, Oh, she lives a very fun and interesting life, like, you know, like this like what we're talking about this, this, this life of a lawyer, but also a person trying to live their life as a single person.

That was my first introduction into like law. 

Louis Goodman 20:41 

Do you think the legal system's fair? 

Brian Amaya 20:44 

No, no. And I, and I don't mean that in any sort of negative way. I think it's just the reality is that the legal system is premised on the idea that everybody should be treated the same. And unfortunately, based on just the world in general, nobody's treated the same.

And so we have a problem, even though I think judges and the entire system tries, it just can't because at the basic level, we are not all the same in life. It's sort of like the United States. There's this idea that we want to be the perfect government and the perfect society and we are striving towards that and we are always pushing towards that. And that is a goal that we have set for ourselves, but we're not there yet. And we're just going to keep trying to get closer. And I think every day we get a little bit closer to that. 

Louis Goodman 21:39 

I want to shift gears here for a minute. What is your family life been like and how has practicing law fit in with your family life, your family life fit in with your practice of law?

Brian Amaya 21:52 

So it's a very interesting. So when I was a Public Defender, I truly believe that that was who I was. I identified as a Public Defender and that was sort of what my life was. I worked seven days a week. I worked Saturdays, Sundays. While I was a Public Defender, it was very difficult. I had a, a lot of failed relationships that didn't go very far because I just wasn't available and it was on me. I, it just, it's really hard to date when you're working seven days a week. And so it was very difficult. And so it wasn't until I left the Public Defender's Office that I found who my partner is now. And, you know, I, Now live with my partner and her child, and we have a home, we bought a house. And I finally feel that I'm able to start that next part of my life, which is this family aspect to it. And I'm very lucky and very blessed and I'm very happy that that's happening, but something that took a long time to get to. 

Louis Goodman 22:58 

Have you had any interesting travel experiences? 

Brian Amaya 23:01 

I'm from Los Angeles that makes me a hardcore Dodgers fan. I did have some time between the Public Defender's Office and my, my new job at Bay Area Legal Aid. And so I literally just took off and followed the Dodgers as they did a Eastern tour. So I started off in Pittsburgh, went to Cincinnati, went to a bunch of Midwest towns, cities, and just watch baseball.

You learn a lot from this country by going to baseball games. Everybody goes to baseball games and everybody wants to talk to you. They don't see a lot of LA fans out there. And they're like, Hey, where are you from? And you start having these conversations and you start realizing like, California is lovely, but California is just one slice of America.

And America has so much diversity, so much culture and just following the Dodgers around for, you know, good month was a wonderful experience. And something that I, you know, think about a lot now. 

Louis Goodman 24:07 

Any other kind of recreational activities that you do to get your mind off of the practice of law? 

Brian Amaya 24:13 

I actually do CrossFit. I go to a local gym called Grassroots in Berkeley, which I've been going to now for seven years. And, you know, like I said, 6 a.m. every morning. So I wake up at 5 every morning and, and, and get there by 6 and done by 7. And in court by like 8:30 or 9 depending on where the court is that day. 

Louis Goodman 24:34 

What mistakes do you think lawyers make?

Brian Amaya 24:38 

I think one of the biggest mistakes we make as lawyers, and this is true to whatever law you practice is not being able to leave your side and looking at the problem from the other side. Not only is it good to see whatever you're arguing about from the other person's side in order to resolve or come to a resolution, be it a compromise or something, understanding their position. But also, if compromise fails, like knowing, being able to predict your, your opponent's argument, where they're going to go, their legal strategy is so important for this job. And I think, unfortunately, that's, you know, some people are so vested in their side, right? They are vested in their side that they're unable to see it from the other side. And it just kind of blocks you from being able to see all the angles. 

Louis Goodman 25:35 

Is there someone living or dead who you'd like to meet? 

Brian Amaya 25:39 

I'm a big fan of George Orwell. I love his books. You know, Animal Farm is, is a book that I'll read at least once a year, just because I wish I would have met him. I mean, the, you know, his story, his life it's sort of an adventure, George Orwell. He traveled the world, just getting into trouble, getting into adventure, getting into different activities and something so amazing about that. And, and he was also a great writer. And I respect that. I respect people who, who can tell a story in written form. I think that that'd be somebody who I definitely would love to talk to.

Louis Goodman 26:16 

How do you define success? 

Brian Amaya 26:18 

I used to think that success was accolades from other people, right? I used to think that being successful meant that other people thought you were successful. It took me a very, very long time to realize that the own, that happiness has Is solely whether or not you believe you're successful or whether or not you are happy.

It is a very internal thing. You will not be successful if you do not believe it yourself. And so I think it's a very, success is a very internal thought process. 

Louis Goodman 26:55 

What sort of things keep you up at night? 

Brian Amaya 26:57 

Everything, everything keeps me up at night. Like I'm one of those people who have really trouble sleeping, but I think what keeps me up at night are definitely like my serious cases. Like those are the ones that keep me sort of always thinking about them, always thinking about the next step, what I need to do. You know, I think that being a lawyer is you're a master checklist creator. And so I've started writing things down. I have post it notes everywhere and notes in my phone, because, you know, it's not like I, when I was younger and I could just be like, okay, that is something I'm going to do tomorrow.

Sometimes I do need to write myself an email saying, do this thing tomorrow, Brian. So definitely the checklist, keep me going, keep me up at night. 

Louis Goodman 27:42 

Let's say you came into some real money, 3 or 4 billion dollars. What, if anything, would you do differently in your life? 

Brian Amaya 27:50 

I've thought about this question so many times, Mr. Goodman, this is, this is one of my fate, like it's, it's a fantasy, right? This is, I think a lot of people do this. I would, I would do is I would open up a firm, right? I open up a single firm, just me. I would hire an investigator that worked just for me. Obviously all the other things that come with having a, you know, I would, sort of like a self enclosed firm where all the people are on salary getting paid and I would do one case at a time and not charge, right?

And so I would have the ability to pick whatever case I wanted to take on. And I haven't really figured out how I would do that. Like, you know, what people write to me or people fill out this form. I don't know that that's next level. But one case at a time so that I could just focus on that one case. Yeah.

At a time and and i'm not just talking about doing like homicides or anything. That's no what would life be like If I only had to worry about one petty theft, that was my whole universe. The level of next level of defenses I could come up with for that case would be amazing. And so I would definitely want to do that. Just start a firm pro bono. Everything's pro bono one case at a time. 

Louis Goodman 29:11 

Let's say you had a magic wand that was one thing in the world, the legal world or otherwise, that you could change. What would that be? 

Brian Amaya 29:18 

A lot of things that I would like to change. I don't know if this is true, but I've heard, and it's something that I've thought about, but I, I'm, I'm led to understand that In JAG. So in the, you know, armed forces criminal justice system that they take turns, they'll swap. So people who prosecute will be defense attorneys and then defense attorneys will be prosecutors. I don't know if that's true or not, but this is what I've been told. And I hyper fixated on that idea of what it would be like for obviously it would never work out because when you become a criminal defense attorney or you become a district attorney, you, they're sort of like this, there there's ability to swap sides, but for the most part, those people on the outer edges would never do the opposite end, but I think it would be beneficial for every six months for all, for us to just swap. So us criminal defense attorneys need to prosecute and prosecutors need to do criminal defense because. Then we would all come to realize really matters and what is really important that we accomplished in bringing justice. I think it would be so awesome for us to have to switch sides. 

Louis Goodman 30:30 

When I was in the District Attorney's Office I often thought that it would be very helpful to have an exchange program with another county so that we could go and be Public Defenders in some other county and have some of their Public Defenders be Deputy DAs in our county. So that way we wouldn't have this direct conflict of interest, but people who wanted to could get some experience doing just that, being on the other side of the courtroom in a criminal case.

Brian Amaya 31:00 

Yeah, I mean, it just brings perspective. And this goes back to what we talked about earlier, which is we need to see, you know, the best lawyers can see sides, see everything from all angles. Of course. This is a perfect world and we're waving magic wands, but you know, I think it's something that makes sense to me.

Louis Goodman 31:19 

I also really encourage lawyers to sit as a judge pro tem or a judge in mock trials because the view from the bench is very different than it is from counsel table. And I think that it can really help us as attorneys to get some sense of what the problems are from the bench. 

Brian Amaya 31:42 

Yeah. Anytime a former colleague of mine becomes a lawyer or, I mean, becomes a judge, there's always this notion of like, it's different. It's completely different. It's the same courtroom, you know, if, if, especially if you're a Public Defender or District Attorney, you know, you're, you're in one Oh, whatever, one 15 still, and one 15 is still the same. The same things are happening always for the person on the bench.

Now it's completely different. And sometimes I sit there and I go, thank God, that's not me. Like I get to argue and I get to make my stand and, and, and get behind that, but I'm not making that decision. And, and in some ways, somebody is always going to be upset at your decision. Somebody is going to be unhappy with your decision and that must be really difficult.

Louis Goodman 32:32 

Yeah, I think so. And just the way the court looks from that judicial seat is, is a very different perspective, you know, just walking out there and sitting down, you know, I mean, I've sat as a judge pro tem in traffic, you know, I mean, it's not like I've ever done anything really serious as a judge, just that perspective from the bench, it is a different view of that courtroom.

Brian Amaya 32:59 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Louis Goodman 33:01 

Brian, if someone wants to get in touch with you, someone who needs legal representation, or perhaps an attorney that wanted to call you and pick your brain a bit, what is the best way to contact you? 

Brian Amaya 33:17 

The best way to be reached at would be through our website. It's www.morrisdefense.com. Morris is spelled M-O-R-R-I-S defense, one word .com.

And my phone number is there. My email is there. All my information is there, how to reach me. And that's really the best way to get ahold of me. 

Louis Goodman 33:38 

And if we were to Google Brian Amaya attorney Berkeley, I take it that your name would come up and we would find you that way as well? 

Brian Amaya 33:48 

That's right. That's correct.

Louis Goodman 33:50 

Brian, is there anything that you want to talk about that we haven't discussed? Anything at all that you'd like to bring up? 

Brian Amaya 33:55 

Yeah, so thank you so much. As you know, Mr. Goodman, I am the president of East La Raza and that's a lawyer's association for Latinx attorneys in Alameda County and Contra Costa counties. We're a joint bar association. And one of the biggest things, one of my life missions now in my life is, is addressing this problem that we have in the state of California. The Latinx community is 40 percent of the state. So 40 percent of people in the state of California are Latino/Latina, but only 6 percent of the California state bar is Latino Latina.

That is a troubling difference, right? Almost half of the state is Latino/Latina, but less than, I mean, less than 10% of the bar is there's a disconnect there and this is a problem for them because they're looking for representation that they can relate to, but it's also a problem for the legal community.

It's a problem for, for us as legal professionals because we, we are not matching the community and so there's some, there's some distrust there, right? So why is it that I can't find a lawyer that speaks Spanish? Why is it that I can't find a lawyer that looks like me? Why isn't that the case? When I say certain things, my lawyer doesn't understand that?

And it's a serious problem. And it's something that I, that I really, when I tell people these, these statistics and I go, you know, only 6 percent of the bar is Latino. They're shocked. They're like. What, what, that doesn't make any sense, but it's our reality. And it's something that I'm striving and working really hard to, to, to fix, but it's a serious problem and it's something that's been happening in California for a very long time.

The numbers haven't really changed, you know, and it's really only a California problem. States like Texas and Florida that we laugh at all the time for being, you know, not progressive and not these bastions of, you know, democracy and all that they have higher populations of Latino lawyers than we do.

And so there's a problem here and it's, and I, you know, as, as I'm working through it and trying to figure out what that problem is. I really just want to bring that up to people because I think people don't know that. And so anybody who listens to me, I tell them, it's like, Hey, we need more Latino, Latina lawyers. This is a problem that we have. And if we don't fix this, we're going to have an issue in the legal profession. 

Louis Goodman 36:24 

What sort of things are you doing specifically through La Raza in order to help that problem along? 

Brian Amaya 36:32 

One of the best things that La Raza does is we provide scholarships for Latino/Latina law school students to go to, you know, take the bar exam, study for the bar exam, to do nonprofit work, right? You know, a lot of summer internships are unpaid. If you, you know, when I was a Public Defender. First and second year were unpaid as a law student. And had it not been for La Raza who gave me money to do that job, to pay my bills, to pay my rent, I wouldn't have been able to do it. And so we give out scholarships for that.

We also provide mentorship for the, you know, youth or young people who are in law school. We are trying to promote these individuals who want to be lawyers to get them to the finish line and get them to become lawyers. And so we work really hard every two years we have a gala. And two years ago when we had our gala, we gave out $20,000.

Yeah. $20,000 worth of scholarships. And the hope is to give out $20,000 or more this year because we're having our gala this year too. And so that's what we do. And that's what we want to do. And we'll keep doing it. 

Louis Goodman 37:44 

Brian Amaya, thank you so much for joining me today on the Love Thy Lawyer podcast. It's been a pleasure to talk to you. 

Brian Amaya 37:50 

Thank you so much, Mr. Goodman. I love talking about my journey and I love talking about the law and the legal profession. And it's just so good to do that today with you. 

Louis Goodman 38:00 

That's it for today's episode of Love Thy Lawyer. If you enjoyed listening, please share it with a friend and follow the podcast. If you have comments or suggestions, send me an email. Take a look at our website at lovethylawyer.com, where you can find all of our episodes, transcripts, photographs and information.

Thanks to my guests, and to Joel Katz for music, Bryan Matheson for technical support, Paul Robert for social media and Tracy Harvey. I'm Louis Goodman.

Brian Amaya 38:39 

Oh, that's a good one. I don't know. That's such a, it's funny cause I'm having this moment where all sorts of answers are trying to come up, but none of them feel right. And so it's like this idea of like whatever you would want to talk about. And I can't really think about what I would want to talk about.