Victoria Shaw | The Cloaks We Wear

Victoria Shaw is a Licensed Professional Counselor and Certified School Counselor in the State of Connecticut.  She is also the author of four books, for tweens, teens, and adults, and the mother of two spirited, adult children.

Victoria shares the loss of her sacred, beloved self, as she refers to her then self; the part of herself who she always was, however, lost touch and connection with over the passage of time and the beginning of motherhood. 

She shares how her life experience led her to the intuitive counseling work she does today, and also fully expressing her gifts as a medium and how that blends in and supports her work and her clients. 

This episode has a gift of wisdom for everyone. There is something you will take from this, regardless if you identify yourself as a griever or not. 

There is a lot of depth to this conversation, and we discuss the following topics and more:

• The mother identity - loss of self
• Leaning into the gift of being empathic + tips for empaths
• Intuition - the key to connecting to your higher self
• Grievers - How to know what to do next
• Answering the Question: Do we need to suffer to grow?
• What happens when we die?
• Unhelpful things, from Victoria's perspective, we do as grievers to ourselves and others
• How to connect with a departed love one

Victoria speaks my language in this episode. You don't have to be "into the woo" to get something out of this episode. In fact, I'm going to address the idea of the "woo" in Episode 27 where I share my Takeaways & Reflections (along with an amazing realization I had upon editing and listening back to this episode).

Listen with an open mind and an open heart, and if you do listen, know that it was meant for you to hear.

Our sorrows and wounds are healed only when we touch them with compassion. - Buddha

Resources Mentioned:

• Activating Your Intuition - Course by Victoria Shaw, Ph.D., LPC
• Grief Recovery

Connect with Victoria:

• Website
• Instagram
• Facebook
• Facebook Community
• Podcast

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If you or anyone you know is struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, there are free resources available HERE.

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Transcript

Victoria Volk  00:00
Welcome to another week of grieving voices. If you're new here, thank you for tuning in. And if you've been around a while, thank you as well. Today, my guest is Dr. Victoria Shaw. And we are going to be talking about all sorts of stuff regarding theories, tools, techniques, her grieving story, of course, and also a little bit of the Woo, and which excites me. So, Victoria, how about you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself?

Victoria Shaw  00:39
Yay, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. So, I am an intuitive counselor, and coach and my, my journey. My story is that about, wow, 15 years ago, I started to, you know, I felt like a longing in my life, I felt like there was something something was missing. There was something I was supposed to be doing that I wasn't doing. And I didn't know what it was. And at that point, I had left a career in academic psychology, I had done some some book writing, which is something I always wanted to do, I was in the thick of being a mom, stay at home mostly stay at home mom at this point. But I just kept feeling this deeper longing, this deeper question, there was something else I was supposed to do. And because at that time to my kids were pretty complicated. And they were both struggling with different things. And those different things brought me a little bit further and further out of that left brained, mainstream box of how things should be done. And I started seeing intuitive healers and medical intuitive and energy workers and all sorts of things. And I started to just have my mind expanded more and more to these kinds of tools that maybe were not in my left brain Western trained toolbox. It was on that path. And I discovered that I, I had this gift of intuition. And intuition is something we all have, it's that kind of knowing that you have that's not something you've been taught. It's not that something you can explain it with your logical mind. But it's something where you know, it's true. You don't know why, you know, but you're 100%, right. And everyone's has an experience with their intuition. It's but it's not something that's talked about a lot in our society. And it's not something that most of us have been taught to nurture and taught to us. And for me, that intuitive call was really strong. Oftentimes my intuitive information borders on what people might call psychic, or like six sensory. And I realized that had this gift my whole life, I had the ability to get guidance for people, I had the ability to know things about people that I had no business knowing. I was a feeler so I could feel what other people were feeling. But because I didn't have a frame of reference for understanding it, because it was so strong and I wasn't using appropriate boundaries, I was sort of overwhelmed. And I'd kind of lost touch with the gift Enos of the gifts. And so this all started a journey for me to connect with my intuition and really develop it and turn it back into the gift that it's meant to be. And now what I do is I use my intuition to support others in doing the same and tapping into their own inner resources and their own inner wisdom. So that they can get the most out of this human experience.

Victoria Volk  03:34
Do you feel like because I, I'm a feeler, I feel things deeply and working with, you know, I used to be a CNA in a nursing home and did hospice, home health care, things like that. And so you can definitely feel without things even need needing to be said I could and I just did not feel uncomfortable sitting with people in their grief, even though I myself am a griever. And maybe do you feel like when you consider yourself or know yourself to be aggrieved, or do you feel like that's when we kind of? I don't know, like, do you feel like not sure what I'm trying to ask here? I know what I'm trying to ask. I'm just so excited about this conversation. I feel like my intuition was kind of cut off in a way from my grief because of my grief, but at the same time, I was I would feel things with people. And I didn't understand how why that was.

Victoria Shaw  04:43
Yeah, you're saying a bunch of different things. No, it's good. It's good. It's good. I'm gonna try to unpack them if I if I may. Look, I think especially people doing end of life work and that kind of care is such a beautiful gift to hold the space of This is how it comes through to say enlightenment, light, joy, peace, eternity, like with people that are passing over and knowing that even though that grieving process is so hard, and even though everything about our human existence tells us that death is the end, it's not the end, it's just a transition, it's a transformation from one state of being your human state to another state of being where you'll just be, you know, an energy spiritual being again. But holding people through that process is so powerful, and my readers, and I hope that I can share this and if not, I hope you have a good editor. I think that's a gift that you have to hold people through that space and to hold the light through people through that space when they are grieving. And I think that's a beautiful gift. I think it's a gift that you came into this physical lifetime with. And I think your own personal grief experiences have actually helped you with that they've helped you understand even if you're not always understanding that with your brain, your viscerally your body knows that there's, there's, there's something to be gained through this process. Okay, so I hope that makes sense.

Victoria Volk  06:08
It does. And I just want to share briefly an experience that I just wrote about not that long ago. I think it's fair post coming up. But my, okay, so 30 years after my dad passed, I was eight when he passed away, I had this inner knowing when I found out his only living sibling or his brother was dying of brain cancer. He was in the hospital, they didn't know how much time he had left to live. I hadn't seen him since my dad's funeral, we were pretty much cut off from that side of the family. And I had this inner feeling that I needed to go see him. Even though I hadn't seen him for 30 years. I didn't know if he'd recognize me, he was diagnosed with brain cancer, I didn't know if you'd recognize me what that experience would be like anything like that. And I open the hospital room door. And not it mean, it was just this, I can't It was like magic. It was just this magical healing moment for I think both of us. And not, five minutes later, 10 minutes later, there's a knock at the door. And here it was his daughter, one of his daughters and a cousin, I didn't even remember meeting as a child who they live like, like across the country, and the neighboring state. And so that's where I was like, wow, this, it was just a powerful experience for me. And I really want to the listeners to understand or to what they what I want them to hear in this is that we always do have that intuition, like you said, and it's just listening to it. And it's been open to it. And I want to know, tell us how you came to do this work? I know you said it was a medical intuitive. But what led you what was going on in your world? What was the grief that you then were told that you had to work through.

Victoria Shaw  08:00
So in the process of working with my kids and being introduced to all these different you know, out of the box healers, my pediatrician Believe it or not sent me to this medical intuitive and so she was she was mostly asking questions like, you know, did somebody have Lyme disease or what are some good supplements to treat my son's ADHD and but in the process and working with me, she said you know, that it tested that I had this grief. And I you know was like what? You know, I hadn't I lost I don't think I even had lost my grandmother. Yeah, I lost my grandfather when I was young. But those those big t trauma Greeks were not something that were part of my life. And I was really like racking my brain over what do you mean grief? And she said, well, you know, it could be a loss of of like, you know, she said it was a loss of a sacred Beloved, that was the word that came through. And I was like, you know, she's like, well, that sacred Beloved, could be part a part of yourself. Whoa, hey, oh my gosh, yes. And that was a big catalyst on my journey, because I really thought about, you know, the parts of myself that I had left behind when I was in high school, and I had certain dreams and ideas of how I wanted my life to work. And that sense of agency that we all have at that age, when you know, the sky's the limit, and you had these big dreams, I realized wow, you know, I forgot about those things. And also, just my professional identity too, because I had been you know, someone who I'm an Ivy League trained research psychologist, and you know, I was doing my postdoc at Columbia and I had you know, so I had this big professional persona that I really left behind because a I didn't love doing it. And B I wanted to focus on on having my family, but all of those threads were still they were longings, they were losses, and so it was part of the steps that I took to, you know, investigate and work on those losses that led me to the work that I'm doing now. She actually sent me to an astrologer. Believe it or not took me about three years before that. actually happened. From the time that I identified that she identified I had this loss of the sacred Beloved, which I think was parts of me to seeing the astrologer. But the astrology reading was like one of the most powerful experiences of my life because, you know, she read my chart, and you maybe don't believe in this stuff until it happens to you. But she literally told me, you know, based on my birth date, and the time I was born, and where I was born, right, all of my hopes and dreams and all of those things that I had, you know, thought were were the case about myself when I was in high school and what I wanted to do with my life, she validated everyone, she was like, well, that's your life's purpose. That's why you're here and it was just like, and so it really did bring me home to that that beloved self that part of myself and and it was, you know, that was the catalyst for me moving forward on my own healing and and development journey to do the work that I do today.

Victoria Volk  10:54
I love that story. I love that story, how it all came about how, how you kind of found your way back to you right? And I feel like for me, it's just only starting to happen. And in the last five years or so, I actually had my palms read. 

Victoria Shaw  11:12
Oh, cool. 

Victoria Volk  11:13
A lot of people that know that there. Yeah, I was, because I was so desperate to just why am I feeling the way I'm feeling? Why is why am I not fulfilling this? Like you said, it's like this, I was work at home mom, or stay at home mom, too. I did things on the side. But I was always home with my kids. And I just had this deeper longing to like, I'm meant for more than there's more to life than just this. And not, I don't mean to, you know, not just this as far as being a mother, but I just felt a deeper knowing. Right, but there was more gifts that I had, that I wasn't expressing. 

Victoria Shaw  11:53
And I think a lot of moms feel that way, especially in our culture and society, right. But I also think like, whenever we go through an identity shift, there's a loss. And so you know, anyone who has kids knows, right that when you become a mom, everything about your world changes, like in a big, profound way. And there is you know that part of myself before I was a mom, that's like we hold on what happened to me. And I think every single, you know, mother goes through this to some extent, and it's about remembering, you're still you too, and that we don't have to, you know, go headlong into that, you know, identity of a mom, but also, you know, the way our society set up and a lot of the tasks and things that we have to do as a parent, especially if you decide to become a stay at home mom or you lose, you know, you lose one identity, maybe to gain another, you know, it's tricky. And it's about valuing valuing yourself through the process, valuing your choices, because I think, you know, sometimes motherhood is not, you know, it's something we, when you're pregnant, I remember everybody comes up to you and tells you is so excited that you're having this baby, and you get so much attention. And then when you have the child, it's just like, you go into the background, right? It's like moms aren't important moms, you know. And so we have to learn, I think, and I think a lot of, I think there's a lot of shift towards this, how valuable the role of mothering is, but also that you don't have to sacrifice and like sublimate your entire self to this process of raising your offspring. Because I think that's really disempowering and unfortunate and woefully unnecessary.

Victoria Volk  13:30
And that sparked a thought on me, as I was hearing you talking, I can remember, you know, my kids were, at one point all three in diapers. And because my oldest was quite stubborn. And I just, I didn't like, I didn't go anywhere. And when I did, it was like it, my kids are pretty good. But you know, how just society in general, like your baby is crying, it's like, can you please shut that baby up, or, you know, if you don't feel comfortable even nursing your child in public, or there's, you know, it's just motherhood itself then is almost attacked, like you feel attacked as a mother even just being with your children in public sometimes. And so I think that just adds to the grief of that feeling of and resentment, right, like think it just breeds resentment in a lot of ways. I think I'm pretty sure it did for me, because I think that.

Victoria Shaw  14:19
Yeah, and I think a lot of people feel unsupported. A lot of moms feel unsupported. And, you know, I think all of this is ripe for change. But I know that you know, these are some of the pitfalls that people experience especially with those those little ones. And you know, it's like all the responsibility is on you for everything that goes wrong, right? But there's no support, there's no help. There's no like, I think a lot of us get lost, lost in that feeling. And again, for me, I would not roll back the clock at all being a mom has been one of the most powerful transformative experiences in my life and what's been the catalyst for the work that I do now and I work with in my work, I do a lot of work with parents because for me A big part of my own personal and spiritual journey came from that that parenting dance and from, you know, I learning about myself about I've been doing a lot of my healing work from being a mom and being a parent. And so, I love to support other people that are interested in using the journey that way as well. So, I am so glad that I took this, this and I love my kids too, you know, there's that. But it's, it's it can be really, really, really challenging. And again, there is that a lot of women I think, do feel that grief, that loss of self. And then of course to your grieving other things, if you're grieving the loss of a parent, if you're grieving a loss of things from your childhood, you know, that will be activated too, because what happens with our kiddos is, you know, as they go through certain ages and stages, that often triggers stuff within us. And if we did not feel parented, the way that we, you know, was ideal for us. And no one was parented perfectly, because we live in an imperfect world. And it's just you're not going to no parent even, you know, the best is one is not going to get it 100% right. So that stuff comes up for us as well. And that can be triggered, too, with, you know, when we come to the table of parenting our own kids. So while that can be a complicated process, I also like to look at it as an amazing opportunity for healing and growth.

Victoria Volk  16:19
I 100% agree, my kids have been a mirror for me.

Victoria Shaw  16:23
Yeah, I do that. And if you recognize it, you get so much more out of it. And you're more effective parent too.

Victoria Volk  16:30
Right? And but it wasn't I couldn't see it when they were little. And you know, so I look back with regret in that regard. And I try not to I'm working on for, you know, forgiving myself for that. 

Victoria Shaw  16:42
It's it's a good idea. But it takes time.

Victoria Volk  16:45
It does. It's layers right. What did that experience for you when going through at the time when you found that intuitive healer, and you started to unpack that, what she shared with you. And your parenting like at the same time simultaneous?

Victoria Shaw  17:03
Yeah, it was all at the same time and a lot of it. One thing that I had recognized is that I'm an empath. So, empaths are people that feel when other people are feeling like it's happening to them. And so they're highly sensitive souls, they're very compassionate souls, there's more people open up now to their empathic gifts than ever before, because we are in a point of planetary transformation. And so a lot of people are, you know, awakening up to things that you know, five years ago would not have been an option for them, but it's just everything's accelerated. But so empaths are just these really great feelers and we have these big compassionate hearts. But the problem is, if you don't, if you're not careful, if you're not aware, if you're not grounded, and you don't have scrupulous boundaries, a lot of empaths really feel that, like, if I can feel it, I'm supposed to heal it, I'm supposed to do something about it. And they can start to start taking on the pains of the world and become very overwhelmed, and also become confused about what's theirs, and what's someone else's. And so that was sort of the story of my life. And I was getting all of this intuitive information from my empathic abilities. And also, just because like basically all my intuitive channels were turned on, it was and it was just like, TMI, like psychic TMI was too much, and I was overwhelmed all the time. And so, I couldn't, you know, find the the pieces of gold and all of the flood of information. So for me, it was about learning about boundaries, it was learning about, you know, with your kids, that real important thing about letting them be on their own damn journey, and knowing that they're gonna make mistakes, and they're gonna, like, get dinged up and bruise, just like you did. And it's part of the process of life. And your job is not to take away their pain, and your job is not to keep them locked in a padded room, your job is to support them on your journey. And the best way to do that is keep turning it tuning into that inner guidance and saying, okay, they have a journey, it may not be the path that I would choose for them to follow, but that's not my choice. How am I being called to serve right now to support them on their journey and, and sometimes the intuition whether intuition tells us to do is way different than what our mind thinks we should do. Um, so that was a big part of it, learning boundaries, learning about that. And as I started to learn to respect my kids on their journey, a magical thing happened because I started to, like, respect my own journey in my own life on my own mistakes and the and the things that maybe didn't go so well in my life, where I could start to release those losses and and have forgiveness for myself and the people in my world that maybe didn't show up for me the way I wish they had. And again, it was a process. It did not necessarily happen overnight. It can, it usually doesn't. But so it was just such a powerful journey. And then through all of that, I just kept hearing the call, you know, from my intuition of what those next steps were, and I just kept following them and one of those next steps for me was to pursue my counseling degree and you know, I I already had this doctorate in psychology as a research psychologist, but I didn't have the clinical training. And, you know, my brain wanted me to go back and become a clinical psychologist, because that's like way more prestigious, but my heart said, No, you know, you need to do this other thing. So I did that. And I got exactly the training that I needed. And you know, I've just been following those breadcrumbs one step at a time, because that's how our intuition speaks to us.

Victoria Volk  20:23
This is so in line with the conversations I've been having with friends, books I've been reading. Conversation couldn't be more timely. Thank you for sharing all of that. You have a quote, on your on your website, and I wrote it down. It says, our sorrows and wounds are healed only when we touch them with compassion. Buddha said that, yeah.

Victoria Shaw  20:52
There you go.

Victoria Volk  20:56
But it is on your website, and I wrote it down because it is beautiful. And and so how does your work as an intuitive counselor differ from other types of counselors?

Victoria Shaw  21:08
Absolutely, I think that anyone who's doing any kind of healing or helping work well, whether they recognize it or not, they're tuning into their inner wisdom, because that's where all their really amazing truth wisdom comes from. And I think that, you know, the more we can do that, the more effective we are in pretty much anything we do, but especially if you're in a healing or helping profession. And so I really encourage people in those fields to tune into your intuition more. And remember a lot of the tools and trainings and things that we all learn in school, at some point, somebody had to think those up. And a lot of times, not always, but many of those were, you know, intuitively guided things. But for me, you know, I wear my heart on my sleeve, so to speak intuitively, and I'm really, I guy, I lead with that intuition. And so I have training, I'm trained in different modalities. But when I'm doing my counseling work, I always tune into my intuition first, and I let that be the guide. And then, of course, if if, you know, my intuition tells me to use this particular strategy or particular tool based on all the things that I've learned over the years, I will absolutely do that. But I lead with my intuition first, because I think that's where the gold is. And I think that the more we can tune into our inner wisdom, that's, you know, and we didn't get it, we didn't really talk about this yet. But for me, I believe that your intuition is your connection to your higher self, it's your connection to spirit, it's like the direct line to your soul. And when you can start to live your life from that place, oh, my God, everything changes. And most of the people that come to me are people that you know, have signed up for this journey. And you know, they're really ready to get more than just sitting in a therapy room and like, talk and talk and talk in and in staying at the level of the mind, they want that big, you know, enlightening experience. And they really want to start to tune into their own inner wisdom, and they really want to start to live their life from a more soul based perspective. So they are all for that. Occasionally, when I'm doing the counseling work, someone just finds me on psychology today. And you know, that's fine too, because I don't put the gifts away just because people don't want to hear them, I can, I can do it either way, but more and more people are coming for that full experience. And sometimes that's me just giving guidance, I'm not giving advice, which isn't, which come from my mind and what I think people should do, but giving guidance, meaning I'm tuning into their highest wisdom, and you know, into their soul, their spirit guides, whoever you want to think about it. And I'm becoming a conduit for them to you know, hear the call of their soul. And that's a big part of what I do both in counseling and in my you know, spiritual coaching work. And that's like one of my favorite things to do. And sometimes that guidance will give me tools and strategies that they can use sometimes, you know, that will give me a particular if it's in a counseling setting, or a content specific counseling modality that we might want to try. But again, I always leave with my intuition.

Victoria Volk  24:06
So, what would you say to someone listening and griever listening? You know, we've talked a lot your higher self and and I, like, I've been really digging into all that stuff myself lately. Um, what would you tell a listener, a griever? Listening? Yes. How to know. And how to have the awareness as to what should their next step be if they're ready to get help? Because, and yeah, I'll let you answer that.

Victoria Shaw  24:35
Okay. Yeah, that's a great question. And there's a lot of questions embedded in that one little question. First of all, it's different for everybody, right? Because we are all beautifully, you know, unique. And so what will work for you now in this moment of time is specific to you, and only you and it could change in a minute because the only constant in this world is changed. So that said, you know, in terms of seeing Help first of all you'll know if you're uncomfortable if you're feeling like I don't want to sit with this anymore I'm so ready then please you know move forward and and get some support and support can come in lots of different ways from lots of different places you know sometimes we're afraid to kind of and you get this a lot with therapy or pn and also at the intuitive work where people don't you know, they're afraid that the answer will like destroy them and it'll be too much. So always trust your you know, I would, I would be kind to yourself with those fears. Remember that a good therapist or a good helper is going to go with you gently. And that usually the thing that we don't want to open the thing that we don't want to address once we crack the lid and let it breathe, it actually gets better not worse, right? It's like if you ever like a really stinky, stinky stinky pot and you just keep it closed and everything keeps festering like the longer you keep the lid on the groceries gonna smell if you take the lid off in a supportive and loving environment, you know, maybe outside if it's a sticky pot and you let it breathe a little bit then you can kind of get in there and clean it out. And so therapy works this way and you know, in terms of tuning into who to work with and and how to do that work always follow your intuition if something doesn't feel right it probably isn't and so go where you feel drawn go where you feel called go where you feel safe and comfortable and yes, there are always times when we're challenged and we feel a little bit like uncomfortable too so you you want to start from that place of comfort so if something is uncomfortable, you have a relationship with somebody else who can hold that space for you and you probably know this from the work that you do because we need to be comfortable have a backdrop of comfort right before we want to start touching the uncomfortable that makes sense or at least it's one way to do it some people just like to rip the band aid off and and dive into the acid bath and do it that way but that's just not how I work personally I'm all about you know, being comfortable and the other thing that comes through and I'm sure you've addressed this before in your podcast but it's coming through to share now you know grief comes in many different ways and many different forms and it's different for everyone and you know it can be you know, it can be the loss of a cat it could be the loss of an identity it can be it can be so it can be the loss of a significant loved one it can be so many things you know grief happens to us all the time throughout the lifespan because again the only constant is change and so we're always shifting and growing you know those grief moments are just so right for our own personal and spiritual development and if you can hold yourself through them and get support and you know come to that experience with as much consciousness as you can muster in that present moment it is just it's an amazing opportunity for your spirit to shine and for you to actually get to a place of experiencing even more joy and the word that comes through is enlightenment in your life.

Victoria Volk  27:57
So much goodness in there. So, what would you say then to someone who feels like well you know what, yeah, I have grief but I also have trauma. I had traumatic experiences happened to me, how does that change their grieving experience if they're so in that identity of probably more of a victim I suppose. If you've had like traumatic experiences versus grief of you know a loved one or something you may not feel like a victim as much maybe I don't know. I don't want to compare because that's not what we do in grief recovery work we don't compare lives but just the word trauma in itself.

Victoria Shaw  28:43
First of all loss is always traumatic right it's it's very rare to have any kind of loss where there isn't a little bit of trauma and trauma is something that sometimes you know, we think of traumas big things like being abused or you know, being in a car accident or losing a loved one or and those things are definitely traumatic but we get traumas all the time big and small throughout our life and for me traumas anywhere where you know the outer world doesn't match your inner magnet magnificence and there's a spiritual being in human form which I think we all are there's a lot of opportunities for those little things and bruises to happen over the course of our life and you know so trauma can be like you know, I don't know if we discussed this example before but what comes to mind is you know, you're four years old and you really you're at the toy store and you really want that toy for a fire truck and mom rather than just saying no, I'm sorry, honey, you know, we have to wait for Christmas shames you and says we you shouldn't want that and that's too much money and like you're a greedy little child to ask for that. So that's really traumatic and we we have those experiences unfortunately or fortunately all the time throughout our life. And so, you know, we talk about trauma, it's important to realize you might have trauma that you don't even realize because you're not identifying those things as traumatic experiences when in fact They can be. But we also know you know, in the clinical literature that people that have had a lot of what we call big t traumas, or a lot of little t traumas, firetruck is a little cheap trauma. You know, a rape is a big t trauma, but they're both equally traumatic in their own special ways. Those people can have more complicated grief, where, you know, a grieving loss just stirs up a lot of other kind of trauma. And you know, I often say that trauma is the gift that keeps on giving. Meaning that we have many opportunities to keep working on it again and again, through our life, because it will often become re re triggered and we all become re traumatized. And, you know, from the perspective of someone who's suffering, this seems like a bad thing. But again, it's from a spiritual perspective, it's just your soul giving you more opportunities to explore the issue so that you can grow and it's really a beautiful thing because you're able to explore that from different perspectives until eventually you're able to find peace with it. And and that's to me what the healing process really is, it's not to be forced, but eventually we start to find peace with these losses and peace with all of our human experiences. And it can take you 10 minutes, I don't know anyone for whom is taken 10 minutes or it can take you, you know, 12 lifetimes. But that's, that's the ultimate, you know, goal. I think for most of us.

Victoria Volk  31:20
I want to get your thoughts on something because I read something today, and it really struck me. And it's, I think it's something that's going to stick with me. And it's often something I guess something I've wondered, but I never really like you know, we read something in the perfect timing. 

Victoria Shaw  31:36
Right? Always. 

Victoria Volk  31:38
So, I want to ask you, I want to get your perspective of this. So, I read that so people will say well, do you have to suffer in order to grow and then what I read was that by our own thoughts, we attract suffering like we put ourselves in positions and situations and circumstances it's it's like an addiction. Yeah, suffering. And one thing that I struggled with for over 30 years was feeling as though I am I'm just here to suffer. Oh, you know, because I've suffered for so long, like just in my own mind and my own thought process in my just, you know, all these different things and it's like, Why do these things keep happening to me right over and over and so I want her I would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Victoria Shaw  32:32
Alright, so for you specifically, if you don't mind what I would say is if you can shift that belief system you're already shifting it so it's, it's, it's kind of a done deal, but maybe someone else who has that belief system will want to hear this to you know, understand that life is happening for me, not to me, and again, doesn't mean that you have to like it, it doesn't mean that you can't be pissed, please have whatever feelings that you're having, because that will help you release that belief system. But yeah, if we have a belief system, that life is about suffering, or that things are happening to me, meaning latest torturing me, life is against me, life is not against you, you know, there's a higher part of yourself that planned every damn experience you have in your life for your own learning and growth, to help you remember the magnificence of who and what you really are. And is suffering necessary on that journey? No, is it the way that most of human life has worked up until now? Yeah. And you know, if we go back to Buddhists because we quoted the Buddha earlier, you know, what the Buddha would say is suffering is a mental construct, it's all in your mind, it's how you approach life and you create suffering by the way that you approach your life and the thoughts that you have and your resistance to that deep flow of life and just the fact that things are happening as they're meant to happen. And again, you know, a spiritual bypass here would be to say, Well I have to be happy with everything No you are human my friend and it's so it's more about you know, being kind and sitting with that humaneness while at the same time holding that that broader perspective and so yes when we get into that victim mentality if that's all we think we are and we just think life is just here to kick my ass and I this is how it goes and I don't deserve more and we become resentful of it this can keep us stuck in more crap happening for us and more misery but the way out of that is not to kick yourself over the head even more the way out of it is to just notice Oh wow, you know, this is of course I would think this way given my life experience and everything I knew up until now and of course, now I'm starting to see glimmers that there could be something else and let me follow that and let me be as tight as heck to myself in that process as I explore this, and I allow that new awareness to come in for me, and then it will, I promise every single time.

Victoria Volk  34:43
You hit on something, I don't know if you set it exactly, but like for me personally like gaining new knowledge, new tools, following the my intuition of what I needed to read what I needed to experience what I needed to I've drawn people circumstances, books, things to my life that I needed to ever get to a level of awareness that I have now about my emotional, inner climate.

Victoria Shaw  35:12
And everything happens in divine timing. So, you will always be led to those things that just the right time and then the more you're open to it, and the more you start following, and the more you start listening to the inner wisdom, and they usually come as breadcrumbs, it doesn't usually come the way your mind would like it like the complete answer all at once for the next 50 years, right. They're usually little glimmers of try this, follow this, maybe you should go talk to that person, maybe it's time for you to go visit your uncle, right? I mean, that was a profound experience that you had. But when we start following, and listening to these inner nudging things, they get louder, because we start to like, agree to, you know, co create our lives with our inner wisdom. And so more and more you will, you will be guided in more and more that guidance will lead you to a place of calm and peace and center. And if there are struggles to be had, they'll be you know, streamlined for just the ones that you need to get the most, you know, bang out of your buck. And our inner wisdom will also show us how to navigate those, like struggles which everybody has, you know, the best way possible.

Victoria Volk  36:17
Yeah, gosh, I'm loving this conversation. What would be one thing that either others did, or that you found was helpful for you. When you probably just maybe before you found that intuitive? counselor? You know, or know, the doctor intuitive doctor, correct?

Victoria Shaw  36:38
Yeah, I mean, I found a lot of people. But yeah, before that particular experience, you know, I think there was a period where it was really helpful for me to connect with other people that were going through the same thing that I was, and having that same story, and you know, feeling those losses. And I think that that can be really important for people to feel heard by other people that are having a similar experience. But I also think that you don't want to get some people, that's where they get stuck. That's where they get lost their identity becomes I'm the one who's had trauma, I'm the mother who has lost her sense of identity, or, you know, are, I'm the person I'm the motherless child, right. And so we want to be really careful about the identities that we take on because once we identify with something, it becomes locked, it becomes part of our sense, our false sense of self. And it can keep us from growing and changing and continuing to align with our highest guidance and, and growing in this human container. So that was really helpful for me to feel heard. But I also think and to know that I wasn't alone in this, but then there was also those other people that were starting to show me the way out of it, and the show me the way through it. And that's a different thing. And so we just don't want to get kind of locked into our pain stories. But again, that pain just wants to be heard. And for me, in that earlier phase of my journey, it was just so validating to have people go, you know, yeah, of course, you feel this way. And reading books about other moms that had felt that was really empowering and powerful, and helped me not feel like I was alone, which is, I think something a lot of people really want and need.

Victoria Volk  38:09
I tried to bring hope in the work that I do. When I'm communicating, I want there is another side to this, you know if if I can find it, so can you with, I mean, I've, I've heard just terrible stories of how people found in my work that I do grief recovery, and how it's changed and transform their lives. But I see it though, on social media, too. It's where it's almost like, sometimes like when like traditional grief support groups where there's no action, where it's like you said, you're just repeating the same story, I see that a lot online. It's almost like a support group, but it's online. 

Victoria Shaw  38:50
Yeah, and it can be like after and it's interesting, because a lot of people I've worked with through grief and particularly loss of loved ones will say or sometimes I work with a lot of special needs parents too. So that's another form of grief when you're grieving the loss of the child that you thought you were going to have. And every parent goes through that a little bit because you know, if we're paying attention our kids are now not the idealized things that we imagined they would be before we had them but when you have a special needs child that's even or chronically ill child that can be even more so. And people will say oftentimes, you know those support groups, you know, they they can feel so good at first but oftentimes when people are paying attention to a certain point they're like I'm done with it. It's over I've gotten as much as I could get from this now I'm ready for something more because they don't want that to be their story for life. I'm the mom of a special needs child and that's gonna be it forever right? We want we want to be heard through our human experiences but we also want that flexibility to grow and change and and know on the highest spiritual level and this may or may not resonate with your listeners, but I'm gonna say it anyway, know that that's who you really are. That's just the little cloaks that you're wearing through various times of your human experience and so I think that that is super important that you know you don't get lost in that.

Victoria Volk  40:09
I'm like Yep, amen I resonate with that. I like to look at grief is like a veil that we wear. And we it's you can't see the mirrors in front of you. And you can't see yourself when you look in the mirror either.

Victoria Shaw  40:24
Right, but you don't have to wear that veil forever, if you choose not to when you're ready, just like other kinds of grieving, right, it's fine to take that off. And it's not a disservice, especially when you're grieving loss of another human. You know, if a loved one, it's not a disservice to your loved one to move forward. Right. And we didn't talk about this yet. But it's my belief that when we die, we go back to spirit form, we don't go away, the soul is eternal. And I believe this mostly because I have that ability to connect with entities beings and spirits that are not new physical form. And so that it has been very validating to me through my own experience, but our loved ones, they want us to be happy sometimes, especially when it's been a complicated human relationship. And sometimes, you know, we have that where we lose someone, but that relationship wasn't perfect. And sometimes when they die, we either think we have to pretend like it was perfect to honor their their passing or, you know, worse yet, we can't ever process our losses now or our grievances now, because they're gone. Neither of those things are true, you can continue to do your work, even with those deceased loved ones after they're out of their bodies. And in the work that I do, I often see that happening. And I sometimes see our deceased loved ones showing up to facilitate that work that we still need to do because they often have a broader perspective, once they're not encumbered by their human human word. I don't know if it's coming through fallacies, frailties, whatever, you know, we don't always see things perfectly crystal clearly while we are still in human form, so we can continue to work on stuff, after our loved ones his have passed, we can say everything that we wish that we had said to them when they were living when they're deceased, and they will hear us and they will often hear us without the same, you know, defensiveness that they might have heard us when they were in human form. So sometimes it's advantageous, that you know, we wait until they're past to work through some of this stuff. And you know, honoring a relationship and honoring someone is honoring them and their human imperfection. So it's okay, if you have mixed feelings about someone who's passed, you can still love them, they can still love you, even if all of the details of that human relationship were imperfect.

Victoria Volk  42:35
Oh, this is so good. I'm so glad that we connected, you know, and I believe too, you know, as a kid, you know, I saw my dad in his casket and as a kid, I just, there was no conversation about death or grief or anything. And so, you know, he was put in the ground, and I thought that's what happens when you die. You're put in the ground. And I didn't have never felt that spiritual connection. I never felt a spiritual connection to a higher being or much less to myself until probably 2014. Yeah, I mean, it just took me so long to come around.

Victoria Shaw  43:14
It’s normal and natural to sometimes we look back in our lives, and we think something's wrong with us, because it took us so long. Again, remember, divine timing, and we get the memo. It's just the right moment. And sometimes I'm someone who has a late wake her up in a lot of sense. And that's okay, that's beautiful, because I needed every experience that I had in my life to get to where I am now. And I'm grateful to everyone and you can't force that kind of feeling. I just feel it naturally. But just know that that's there. That you know, every experience that you've had in this human life is supporting you to this moment now whether whether that feels right or not. And you know, there's no, it's the human mind that wants to say there's a particular timeline there isn't. And we need every experience that we have, and it's perfect. You know, timing, whenever whatever is happening now is exactly what's supposed to be so I hope that helps.

Victoria Volk  44:10
No, and I can say that now. I fully believe that now and I do feel a higher connection to myself into you know, yeah, but yeah.

Victoria Shaw  44:19
It's worth it, right?  You need, you need to get you to that place. And if you said probably to yourself, you know, 2030 years ago, listen, baby, this is the way you have to see things you probably would have like thrown a drink in your face. Right? You were because you weren't ready.

Victoria Volk  44:36
I would have been drunk. 

Victoria Shaw  44:40
Okay. Interesting that that particular image came through. Sorry for that. Its how the intuition
works.

Victoria Volk  44:47
Well, my life was a train wreck. So that very much was my story.

Victoria Volk  44:57
Yeah, I just it's been a long track again when I was going straight

Victoria Shaw  45:03
Yeah and it's it's not meant to be and we often learn through these human experiences and you'll be able to carry for and I'm sure you already do in the work that you do that understanding that you know even the trade rock can serve you it can serve you and it can get you there and again no part of human life is wasted and human experience is wasted it's just that that judge everything.

Victoria Volk  45:27
So, what would you say is probably unhelpful things that people do for themselves or others who are looking to suffer who are looking to support others in grief in particular and maybe trauma as well.

Victoria Shaw  45:44
Yep. Unhelpful judging yourself judging how you're having the experience judging yourself for judging yourself if you have that level of awareness right because it's going to be different for everyone to whatever you're feeling right now is just perfect for you and judgments going to shut down the process the other thing that can sometimes be unhelpful both for yourself as others is like that kind of you know spiritual bypassing kind of deal where you're like I should feel grateful I should feel happy I should focus on the positives I should I should I should I should I should there's no shoulds in the land of grieving there's no there's no shoulds in life really that service it should just judgment in disguise. And you know, again, you have to have your experience because Earth is an experiential realm we learn here by being human so be kind to yourself know whatever you're experiencing is just right. If you have trouble being kind to yourself seek support find someone else to teach you and to be kind to you in the meantime and also it come through to say don't try to go it alone. right a lot of times we believe that we got to do everything ourselves and that if we don't do it ourselves it's not good it's not right but you know, this is Earth is a shared realm This is a shared journey. And so you know, it's important to allow yourself to find and, and and connect with with significant others, be it friends, be it healers Be it helpers you don't want to give your power away to those folks but you do want to know that you don't have to do it alone and they're supported every leg in the journey and if you open yourself up for it, it will always come could be a book could be a podcast could be in lots of different places you know, whatever your comfort zone is but you know be open to the fact that if you are open to that support support will always be there for you and you deserve that.

Victoria Volk  47:37
I can attest to that. Yeah, that was my experience. What would you say to someone listening to and I'm just as curious how to connect a lot departed loved one and then how to know when you are?

Victoria Shaw  47:53
Oh, I love that question. Okay, so connecting with your loved ones is a little bit like connecting with your intuition and that the first thing I'm going to say is Look, if you talk to your loved one they hear you okay and even if you're mad at your loved one don't worry about that because again, they don't hear you with their ears like they did in human form if you had some grievances with your mom and now she passed away and you're bitching at her you're not going to get the same response back that you did when you were both in bodies and if you do that I promise you as your mind your mom is passed over she's she's not in that realm of pitching back at you and I hope that word was okay if not I can say it again in a cleaner language but um so that's the first thing so but you can always talk to your loved ones they always hear you sometimes we have this feeling right if we don't hear back right away or they loved us because we have that deep sense of loss and we feel that they're not here and they're not there they're always even if you can't feel them or see them or connect with them if you send it out there they'll get the memo Okay, so So know that first and foremost that you can always talk to them and then if you imagine them talking back and that voice is loving and kind it is probably them if again they're sounding like they're beating you up or telling you how terrible you are or that's probably the voice in your head. Because you know when our deceased loved ones move back into spirit form, they're not so judgy anymore they're not like perfected yet so again sometimes when people talk about spirit guides and they're like it's got to be my aunt Marge and I'm like she may be looking over you but your spirit guides actually are you know guidances of even higher levels that they've transcended the need to be in human form all together but like our once we leave the human body we do have a broader perspective and so you know, you'll feel a loving kind energy so know that you can talk to them know that they're listening know that you're probably not imagining it nine out of 10 times you're not imagining it. Oftentimes our loved ones will show us signs in the environment and people just know and if it brings you pleasure to think that you know every time you see a bird, it's your mom, you know, coming back to say hello, and then do just go with that. You know, don't overthink it, like enjoy that. It's beautiful. And by the way, if you have that thought that You're helping your deceased loved ones find a way to connect with you, which is what they want to do. So you know, if you imagine if you believe that the birds are that way, even if they didn't get that idea yet, they'll start doing that for you anyway. They'll be like, oh, okay, that's how you want me to communicate with you. I'll be a bird. So it's, it's magical. And you asked one other question, I'm trying to find that in my brain. So hold on, Oh, you didn't ask this. But this also comes through another way that our loved ones love to communicate with us is in our dreams. Because when we are in the sleep state, our minds are quiet, and we're much more receptive. So if you dream that a loved one came and gave you a hug, or I used to always dream about my grandfather, that he was like, still alive. And then I'd be like, what, wait, he's dead. I recognize now those were times that he was visiting me in my dreams and just saying, hello.

Victoria Volk  50:48
I don't recall ever having one of those dreams.

Victoria Shaw  50:58
It's different for everyone. We have a sense to write that our love. I mean, if there's a lot of unfinished business, that our loved ones can't hear us, if they're not here, that they're not, you know, why are they speaking to me, that's a sign for you to heal your own grief. And that place of feeling abandoned by them, or whatever feelings came up at the time of the loss because they are there. And you know, sometimes healing that too well will help you make that connection. And it's important to know too, and I hope this makes sense that you know, everyone's on this human journey. And when we leave our bodies, we continue, you know, with a little bit of school about processing and unpacking what went on in our human life. And so you here on Earth, when you are working through whatever grievances or traumas or issues that you have with that loved one, will help them on their journey as well. And so you know, someone that leaves their body too soon, or leaves their family too soon, you know, like, they they may go out thinking like, Oh my gosh, like, what's wrong with me that I can't stick around and support my family, and the family might get the memo? Oh, my gosh, you know, this person left me too soon, they abandon me, right? Like as you work through your issues that work through those as well. And all of those things are ultimately misbeliefs. Because at the end of the day, again, everything happens exactly as it should. But it doesn't always feel that way, and it doesn't have. 

Victoria Volk  52:17
I can speak from experience. And when I was with my uncle, I felt the most connected to my dad and I ever had.

Victoria Shaw  52:26
But that's because it was your dad prompting you because he had, he had unfinished business with that family line. And he really wanted before your uncle passed, for you to be the conduit of connecting reconnecting all of you guys back together, and he wanted to help you with that. for him. It was important for him it was important for your uncle, and it was important for you. So, he was very much prompting you and guiding you and he says good job at listening if he wants you came through just a little. But I think the longer conversation would be for another day and another context.

Victoria Volk  53:06
I'm just like, well, I got chills.

Victoria Shaw  53:10
Okay, and so that shows for listeners another way that you would know chills are amazing body signal when you feel that in your body chills is one of my favorite intuitive markers. Victoria because you can't make it up. Right? You can't make that up. When we feel the chills. It's like oh my god. And I have a colleague and friend, she gets the chills for me. Like whenever we're together and I asked her something, she'll be chills, chills. And it's like such it's so validating. So yes, that's another way that you'll know it's sometimes you'll have that full body experience that you can't make up and that's a marker that Yes, he did come through and he's around you all the time. And sometimes it's our own grief that blocks our ability to connect with our loved ones and to know that they're there to feel their love, but that's okay, too. It's all part of the process.

Victoria Volk  53:54
I would agree with that. Yeah. What I've been learning, and I actually got chills earlier in this interview.

Victoria Shaw  54:03
Pay attention to that. It's so powerful.

Victoria Volk  54:06
Oh man, this is so so so great.

Victoria Shaw  54:09
Thank you

Victoria Volk  54:10
Is there anything else you feel the listeners need to hear?

Victoria Shaw  54:17
Yeah, I think just that grief is a natural normal part of life. And you know, sometimes we feel like we're the only one it's happening to and that is happening to us like there's something wrong with us for either the way that we're responding to the grief or that you know, we had the loss in the first place or you know, all of the above Be kind to yourself, be patient with yourself. No, it's a it's a process of life but it's not fun. It's not easy. But it's also can be if you if you take the challenge and amazing conduit to transformation and growth and in that it's a really, really good and powerful thing. And that nothing in life, like we said before is wasted and so it's the more that we bring the light of consciousness to our human experiences that we can grow and change and transform.

Victoria Volk  55:04
Amen, I agree so good. So, if people want to connect with you, where can they find you?

Victoria Shaw  55:11
Alright, so I have a couple of different things going on I do one to one sessions with folks all over the world and also intuitive counseling sessions in Connecticut where I'm a licensed professional counselor. And to do either of those things you would find me at my website which is Victoria Shaw, intuitive calm, so pretty easy My name plus the word intuitive calm and then I also have a lot of free offerings and teachings that I love to do on my website I have this is not free, it's a paid course I have a paid course on activating your intuition which is a self paced online course with some tools and strategies to help you leverage the power of your inner wisdom and tap into your intuition more I also have a podcast which that is completely free intuitive connection podcast where I talk all about tools and strategies to awaken your intuition and all topics, intuition and spirituality plus I have a lot of amazing amazing guests and I've also started doing some fun readings on the show which has been really cool as well because oftentimes, you know, we we hear ourselves through other people's stories, and let's see what else I have a pretty active presence on instagram. Victoria, Shaw intuative is my handle and on Facebook and I am in the process of building an amazing Facebook community intuitive connection community where I've been doing a lot of free teachings, weekly readings and visits with all of the guests from our podcast episodes so that is a really fun place to find me as well so that's intuitive connection community on Facebook and I think that covers it.

Victoria Volk  56:49
Lots of places to find you. That's awesome. Thank you thank you thank you so much for being a guest on my podcast and I have no doubt that what people needed to hear came through today and that it'll be beneficial thing I really enjoyed though.

Victoria Shaw  57:07
Thank you, its my pleasure and my joy as well. Thank you so much. 

Victoria Volk  57:12
All right. Well, if you love this episode, I would love for you to give Victoria Shaw's episode a five star review. Tune in next week for another episode and until then, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.