Beating Cancer and Refreshing Your Mindset With Yasmin Gaté

Art teacher and Tiny Cupboard Creatives founder Yaz Gaté talks beating cancer in 2019, finding purpose in life, developing a new mindset around risk, using art to connect with refugees and the amazing healing power of therapy and personal development.

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Transcript

Okay. Hi everyone. Welcome to another episode of tell the others. Thanks for joining us today. I'm joined by Yaz or Yasmine, I don't know if you prefer the full name or the yes is good. It's good. Okay. Um, and Yaz and I are going to be talking today about alignment and purpose and cancer and just some light things teaching refugee kids. There's all sorts of things that we will probably be dipping into today. Um, but yes. Hello? Yes, thanks for joining us today. Hi Heidi. My pleasure. How exciting it is. Yeah. So where we were just saying before we started recording, um, where should we start? And so we've known each other now for about three years. Yep. Yep. And um, it's funny, I think when we look back on the last three years of when we met to where we both are now and where you're at with your business and where you're at with your life and all of this stuff that happened. I mean if, if, when we had met, if someone had said to you, yes, this is what the next three years of your life are going to look like and these are the things that are going to happen, like God, would you have believed them? No.

No, no, no, no. I think when we met, um, I always knew that I was supposed to be doing something else. So I'd spent at that point

14 years of my life,

well, 15 years teaching, often low socioeconomic, often refugees preliterate trauma setting. Um, but I kind of knew when I met you that something else was supposed to be happening. And I think I came from a place of deficit of, uh, uh, you know, there was always something lacking like support or something. And I feel like, had you told me three years ago that I would be where I am today, I would have just said you're kidding. There's no way.

So when we first met, you were teaching arts at, um, a school in noble park. Yeah. Which is sort of your Dandenong, which aren't from Victoria and Melbourne. Do you want to give a little snapshot? Well I guess you said low socioeconomic and

low socioeconomic. So the setting that I worked in is quite specific to our state. So it's, um, new arrival refugees. Um, they've only been here for six months. That's how you qualify to go to our school. You're only allowed to stay for a year if you have, um, that's particular a number. So like if you're a refugee or whatnot. And so noble park is, you know, lots of, um, new arrivals. It's close to Danny has lots of, you know, Afghani Sydney's, but it means I love it. You know, I spent about 10 years of my life there. I met my husband there and you know, uh, it was an extension of working in England in a low socioeconomic. So I, I really felt, found a pool towards that. Um, but I did find through them I had a niggle that I was supposed to be doing something else with what I discovered while I was with them.

And how, how would you articulate that? Cause I know I felt the same, like in past jobs I've had before I got into counseling and therapy. Like I was in finance for a little bit when I first moved here because the visa stuff. And um, I knew it was soul destroying. Like I knew that that much that it wasn't aligned with who I was and didn't feel, it just felt draining and it felt exhausting. Um, whereas then when I started doing counseling full time, I felt energized and recharged and, you know, finish the day talking to clients, feeling pumped rather than like, so that's what it felt like for me of not feeling aligned. What would you say it was for you of, how did you know that you weren't aligned?

Well, funnily enough, in 2008 when I left England, I said, I'm not going back to teaching, right. I, I'm pretty sure I was even in a newspaper about people who leave teaching.

Wow. Right.

And then I came back to Melbourne where I, where I was born and I, I found these refugee children and a new flame started lighting up in my life. Like, I, I loved them. You know, there's something about seeing kids develop in not just English but in like their wellbeing and unpacking them when they don't have that language. And I'm often at that school, we're often their first teachers ever. They've never been to school before. So the kids that I taught were born in camps. Wow. Like refugee camps. So for a long time that really lit my fire. You know, my soul was like, Oh my God, I love it. Then I had my own kids and I reckon that's when I started to shift cause then I got thrown into an art role. So in Australia you're allowed to teach any subject from, uh, from the ages of four kids that are from prep to grade six you're expected to teach.

So I just got given the art role because I was on maternity leave. And anyway, it turns out to be the biggest blessing ever because then I started to realize that I could actually teach, um, English concepts through a medium that I loved, which was art and using, um, artists stories to harness a connection with these refugee kids. And I loved it. Yeah. Um, and then what happened? I started thinking I want to do something, you know, I, I want to do something else. This like, I wanted to collaborate with different communities from lucky to programs

and you know,

time's tight when you're hustling a young family and a teaching job. Yes, girl. You know what I mean? I know what you mean. It's like, Ooh, other the time. Can I penetrate to get some extra juice out of it? You know? And so last year I was given an opportunity to work at a kindergarten aside from my, my normal teaching refugees, our job. And I was like, wow, there's a, there's a desire to be elsewhere as well as with those kids. And then I got cancer. Yes. Good. Okay, thanks. And I think you said to me, Oh my God, this is great. It was a bit of a brave moment. I think this is so great. This is going to be over. And how lucky are you to live your life on the other side of such a giant event and you were right.

Mm.

So here I am in my own studio. Um, before Corona I was teaching kids, uh, in small groups. I was teaching in an after school program. I was doing commissions and Corona happened. And, uh, so for a few weeks I was paralyzed and then

you came along and said, go on YouTube. And I was like, but I think a lot of us, like when we have a skillset or gifts in a certain area, you don't realize that you have special things about yourself because it just feels normal and natural. Like, I never really thought it was a good listener or, um, I don't know. I don't think I noticed like being empathic was sort of a skill or something until later in life that I realized, Oh, not everyone's like that, huh. Um, maybe I could do something with that. And I think with your art stuff and realizing how you make art so fun for kids and engaging, I mean, teaching kids about artists that normally, I don't know you don't relate to is thinking that they're an artist for kids. You know, like Calder for example, when you did that colder, um, program, I just think that they don't get it at like you kids wouldn't think colder is, you know, or Keith Herring or that, that is definitely, those are artists that I associate as kid friendly artists. But then when you, the way that you explain it, um, who was the spider sculpture one? Who is that one of all the ways? Bush wall. Yeah. All of these artists that you just would never think that kids can connect to. You find a way to make it interesting for the kids to connect to.

I think for me

it's the storytelling.

You know that, um, I use art and I did this a lot with my refugee kids cause a lot of them are from very conservative background. So I would show them the piece of art and go, okay, who do you think did this? Are they dead? Are they alive? Are they a man or a woman? Are they a young? So when I showed them the Louise bourgeois spider sculpture, a hundred percent, it's a young guy. So like when I reveal like, Ooh, this old lady, Hey, they're like, Oh, that's right. Yeah. You don't assume. Yeah. And I love that about art that you get to challenge, um, viewpoints, you know? And also he wrote them in my colder was eight years old when he had his first exhibition is so crazy, you know, and it's all um, Mirka Maura, she's a very well known Melbourne. Um, she was Melbourne based, she was a refugee who hit in the forests of France and then made her way to Australia. So the kids are like, I'm a refugee. I'm like, you are, I'm looking at it. She's mega famous. Really well known.

Yeah. Or then when you, when the one that you did at your house where you said, um, the price of what some of their art sold for and then showing kids like you can make a living being an artist like this is, this is a legit gig. It's not just, you know, starving, you know, the, the stereotype or whatever. Yeah. Which is cool and it gives them hope. I think that there's something else I could do with my life. Then if I'm not interested in being a doctor, a lawyer, or a mainstream kind of profession that I can do art, you know?

Well, what's interesting, I'm Filipino. So Filipinos as a culture are quite creative. You know, we're always like, we're the extroverts of Asia. How are you? It's hilarious stories, right? It's all like, you know, but you don't do it as a job, right? It's just on the side. It's all like SAR fall like side like side, like really far. Have a great time. That's the Saturdays. That's great. But when you go to school, your objective is to, you know, and I understand like, you know, they've come, loads of parents come to Western countries for a better life and that's what they want for us. Um, but our African, when I was twin in my early thirties, I realized, Oh, I'm actually really good at the, uh, the sewing drawing. So I had my first business when I was probably like, how old was I? Yeah. The tool or something. And I would go to markets and sell vintage items, vintage toys or vintage things made out of vintage items. And, and sell them. And that was great. You know, I realized,

Oh,

this is probably something that I can do, but it wasn't sustainable with a full time job and it wasn't sustainable with children a hundred percent because it was too labor intensive. Um, and then I met you

and realize

I didn't really know who I was.

I didn't own who I was and I certainly wasn't proud of your levels. Um, and I fully felt like that no one got who I was. Um, you weren't saying you weren't heard?

Not seen, not heard, not validated, not appreciated. And I always thought I wasn't good at anything. Like I was just all right, like a mediocre, because I realize the things that I valued the people around me too value. So I was never going to get the rave review that I needed to validate me and I realized I needed to validate me. That's what I've learned even through cancer.

Yeah. So say a bit more about my responsibility. Well, yeah, it's really hard guys. It is [inaudible] with the cancer or the kinks as we have always referred to it. Um, where, how does that fit into everything? Cause you know, I think a lot of us, if we were to find out, okay, when you're in your, um, you know, late thirties are about to turn 40 and you're going to have two small kids and you're going to get diagnosed with cancer. Mmm. And you're going to get through it. I think a lot of us, if we heard that before it happened, we would go like that's devastating and horrendous and I'm not capable to go through that and that's going to be so hard and whatever. And not only did you get through it, but like you smashed it. And I remember times during it when we talked about like checking in and how you going and you would the like, I actually feel like I'm okay and I'm not as sort of like low and I don't know, fetal position rocking in the corner that I think we all would have anticipated is how if that happened to me, that's what happened.

That's, you know, like that's what, that's how I would handle it. But then I think there were times where going through it you were sort of reflecting on like am I really okay? Like I'm not actually feeling okay. So what would you say is, and I guess with a lot of those things we don't know what it's going to feel like until it happens to us. Like so many things in life, you don't know until you get there. What would say would be the, the journey that you kind of went on of when you first found out to then now, I mean I know it's been obviously rollercoaster rebates, but yeah, like when you just reflect on

that, what has that experience meant for you or what have you learned from that and how was that a catalyst and kind of the alignment thing? Well you're right, if you put out a whole load of cards, 52 cards of things that are happening in life that are crap, I would have been like before the cancer I was like, I do not want that card, that card. You can burn it. I do not want it. Totally. You know? And I reckon for about two days I was completely fatal. Fatal position, maybe even three days of just crying at random over a cup, like a cup of tea and toast crying or sitting at a cafe weeping with my latte. So old, very real visuals, you know, doing drop offs and biting my lip and like tears falling down my face trying to get my kid to, to prep.

Yeah. And then I realized, um, my husband and I rolled the dice a bit, you see, because we used a lot of our money on therapy and training Robbins and sound healings and Reiki and like the whole symphony of support, everything. Okay. And then I said to my husband after about three days, Oh, let's say if all of that was a waste of money, right. So then I realized I actually was very equipped with the tools to deal with the dark, the darkness. You know, I had some two, two girls also in their thirties who were diagnosed with cancer and one had finished her everything. The other one was almost at the end of it. And they said, the hardest thing for you will be to support the others around you. Be prepared. And I was like, are you freaking serious? There's no way. Like I'm all about me.

Turns out when you've actually got the canker, it's like a water filter, something happens and life poles through this filter and it's a really quick filtration process and you realize what's important and what's not and the things that aren't important, you guiltlessly push aside and the things that are important, crystal clear. Wow. So when I had, when I was diagnosed, the hardest bit was always waiting for the results. But the amount of clarity that came from those dark patches, aye, I wish I could bottle it because I mean it took cancer for clarity, you know. So then what happened was I had to have a double mastectomy and I was told that the, um, operation would take 12 hours. So I was really lucky that I didn't have to have chemo or radiotherapy. I'd had five surgeries to get to point. And then they said, okay, all you've got to do is have a 12 hour surgery.

And it's, you're basically cured well, breast tissue pending, right? Yeah. And so, uh, FYI, if you ever go for a mega surgery, they give you a 45 minute rundown of all the things that could go wrong and then you have to sign your life away. And it was like seven 45 in the morning when I had to sign this paper and I was with my husband and then I had 15 minutes when I was on the, the bed, my, the operation bed where I was just waiting for the surgeons. And I seriously thought this is it. This is it. It's game over. Not the cancer but this surgery, this is 12 hours. Like that's outrageous.

And I, I did have these moments of fear before cause I wrote the kids and said letters and the letters were not what I thought they would be. Basically the crux of the lettuce to my kids said this and I, I would never have guessed that this would have come out. Um, is know who you are. Cause the world's going to tell you something that you're not. Oh right. That's really good. Because the world's going to tell you something that you're not, I guess a few spots cause that's in my head. And then I listed all the people that know me and I told them, yeah, if they need to know more about me than they should talk to these people. And you're one of them. And the other one was, and these are the people that love you and always have. Yes. So you know who you are, know who loves you and just know who to go to. Right. So then I go back to the Sergeant.

Sorry to interrupt you. That also sounds like something that you would go back in time and tell your little self if we pulled little Yaz out of school at age seven or something that this is, that's a nugget of wisdom that you would want to like go back in time and tell her,

well, I think this is part, you know, bookmark the surgery bit. Okay, got it. You know, I think I come from a culture of collectivism, right? I think we shared an article where Filipino psyche is all about a collectiveness, um, which is beautiful. It's beautiful. But when you feel that you don't fit the collective, which is me, and I've known this since I was little, it's hard not to hear that you're enough. Do you know? And I realized through cancer, not only am I enough, I'm more than I ever thought I was to begin with. So I'm not hating on cancer

cause I realize all the things that ex-boyfriends and friends like, Oh, you're so fake. You can't be that happy. Or all the people hating on the joy. I was still me and full of light and full of polarity as I navigated five surgeries and immobility. So I will never regret that moment, that period of my life. I mean, to be fair, I live so, and I realize I got a good bargain. But the reality of maybe dying, I mean, which is, we all have that. I think we spoken about this, we all have that. We're all up at some point. I remember when we talked about about it. Yeah, I remember when we spoke about that and I said, I think when it was, I think it was when you were confirmed that you had to have the surgery or something or that the test came back like that it was positive and that you needed to have a mastectomy that, um, I think I said something to you like nothing has changed in that yesterday there was a chance you would die just as a human getting hit by a bus or you know, whatever.

And then today it's still the same. It's just the difference is that it's real. Now there's actually something more in front of you, but I find it so fascinating how this is such a universal experience, isn't it? That we all know death and taxes, right, are the two certainties in life, but it takes something like this and near death experience, you know, a car accident, cancer, some sort of trauma for us to go, Holy shit, am I doing what I actually want to be doing career wise? Am I, do I need to repair that relationship with so-and-so from the past? Should I should I need to call my dad who I haven't spoken to him in 10 years. Like it's always this life or death thing that gets these light bulbs to turn on when it's like a floodlight. Yeah. It's like, and you're like, Whoa, that's crazy.

So like I think through the whole cancer thing, like every day there was like a, Oh God. Okay. All right. Also important to note that people, I'm having light bulb moments and everyone else is still experiencing trauma and that's something else that it's like I'm really clear but everyone else is freaking out. So how do you do that? How do you handle that when people are, cause that I think is a common thing that people would experience where like our clients will say to me like I feel really clear that I need to leave this job or I feel really clear that I need to move to London or ended the relationship or leave the marriage or whatever. And then everyone else's stupid opinions are messing with my head and making me second guess myself, doubt myself. How does, what would you say is your advice to someone of how do you navigate I am, I can clear on what I need to do and how do you kind of tune everyone

out when you're clear on something and you then feel like you're holding other people's crap? You know, I cried a lot. I cried a lot, you know, there was a lot of unreleased, I guess what is my, somehow you need to block the noise for me. Cancer. It was like, like cancer really loud and my husband was the only one that could kind of get an egg. Like he's like, Hey, are you all right? He didn't even ask me. Something happened in that timeframe where I felt so certain that I was unwavering and I reckon that upset a lot of people at some point and they probably get to listen to this, you know? But it was, sorry, not sorry, but you know, they need to know that it wasn't from a place of a dark place, that I was trying to upset people. That's what I learned.

I felt like if everyone just honored themselves, even though it gets uncomfortable, then the world would be a better place. There's no selfishness in honoring yourself. And there's a few things that came to head, uh, when I got cancer is that, you know, I'm, I've never been, you're cookie cutter person. I've always kind of stood out even from a young age, you know. Um, the other thing was people are always going to say stuff and it's about knowing who and what I was about as I navigated my own darkness, my own, my own mortality and people got upset. But it was kind of like, I understand why you're upset because this is what you value, but that's not what I value. And that's okay. And I think that's the other thing, culturally, and this is Western as well. We've got this kind of desire to convince somebody else of a certain way or a certain part. We need to just back up on that and just let people walk their path. You know? And I think that's key, that not everyone's going to handle the cakes the way I did it. Not everyone's going to do. But what it does do, it makes it really loud what you're about, what your path looks like.

So for the people that are navigating, how do you block out the noise? You just have to sit with yourself and learn to listen to how your body feels, how your mind feels, what lights you chase the joy, what do you think that makes you happy? You do that. And it's funny, it started off with coffees and meals and art and it just evolved into meditation and, and if I was having a bad day, I would tell my husband, I can't talk to you about anything today cause I'm not together and I'm not going to make a good decision if I'm not feeling it. So I've got to feel good first. And then we make the decision. Cause then you know, it's not bastardized, it's yours.

Yup. Yeah. And it's always that analogy that you and I've always used about the cup and my cup being full or my cup being empty and needing to fill my cup first. And the other analogy I always use with parents especially is the oxygen mask in the airplane that like when the oxygen mask comes down, you know, what is the little flyer, the little pamphlets say put yours on first before you put your child's on or whatever. And I think it's so true and so hard in our culture and in motherhood that you think that's being selfish and you think that that makes me a bad mom if I focus on myself first, but I think what you know, and I'll be 40 at the end of the year, I feel like I've really just started to get this close to 40 that actually that's what makes me a good mom is when I fill my cup first and I focus on myself and I do what I need.

It makes me a better wife. It makes me a better friend, it makes me a better daughter, sister, whatever. When I focus on myself first, fill my cup, do what I need, resentment goes down, frustration goes down, irritation levels go down like everything goes down. When I focused on myself and that's the way I think, which it got even just saying, and it sounds like selfish to me, but I think when you say that the kinks taught you so much about not portraying yourself and instead of betraying, honoring yourself and kind of getting that and celebrating, celebrating and getting the tunnel vision. And it's almost like we have to get the blinders on to just go like not, and it's almost like Cancun was the blinders and the ear to just go, this is where I need to be. And teaching art, not in a school setting, but in, you know, doing private art classes and online content to help inspire people to do art. That is where I'm supposed to be and that's what I want to do. But it took something so

big. Yeah. And even

like I knew it leading up to the surgery, but the surgery was the, um, the clincher. Basically that 15 minute block, uh, where my CEP was next to me and I was waiting for the surgeons. I, I sobbed. Like my soul was just sobbing because I thought this is it. And like, you know, he's like, you're not going to die. I'm like, how do you know you're not the one? And he was just so positive about the whole thing. And the three things that came to mind were, um, I haven't seen the kids fall in love yet. This my last 10 minutes on earth. Right. I haven't seen them fall in love yet. I'm not finished. Uh, the second thing was you and may like me and said we hadn't lived a lot. I said, you will surprise to do music and I'm supposed to do art and we haven't done that.

We've just run the rat race that we've been told to run, you know. And the third one was I need to leave teaching like in a conventional setting at some point. And that's okay. That was what happened to me in that, that last 10 minutes. And it's funny cause I think that if it was anything else, people would really try and like, screw the screw with my mentality. Like, Oh, don't be silly. Oh my God, you can do it. Whereas when when you, uh, being treated for cancer and you're about to go through this mega surgery, people were just like, Oh shit. And so everyone just backs up and everyone holds their breath, they hold their breath, they wiped to see if you live, they wait for you to get better. And then it's like being pregnant again. Everyone's got their 2 cents, you know, grappling with that, holding onto that moment. And I said, isn't that funny? How many fights? What about savings buying a place?

Yeah, totally. Do you know what I just saw though in that moment when you were just saying that what I have never thought of before is in that when you went like this, what that just made me realize is the cancer forced people, so hold space for you, which is ideally what we would be doing for each other in one another when we're going through trauma, trauma or crisis or whatever. But that because kinks is so big and so like, Oh shit, there's no way I can say or do, but I can't fix it. I just have to step back. It's a forest holding space. And just acknowledging, yeah, I was just going through this and I just have to sit back and support her in whatever way I can, but I have to shut my mouth and suspend all my bullshit advice, ask advice of what I think you should do and whatever I have to pull back.

And then yes, in time. Then you know, once it's all over and it's like, Oh, you're safe, you're healthy then then I'll give you my 2 cents. But in that period people were forced to hold space and wouldn't that be nice if people could just hold space like that anyway? Like I think this is a really great reminder to me of like that's what people want and need when they go through trauma and crisis is just hold space dude, just hold space. Just be present. Just hold. Yeah. And people would be like, are you okay? Because you seem okay. It's like, Oh, it's guilt-free. It's honoring myself without the guilt. And that's why everybody just honored themselves. Don't be this lack of selfishness, you know? Because your cups full. Right? So like if I you and, and that's what I did when I did my life coaching, the Tony Robbins thing.

She said, if you learn to honor yourself when someone else honors themselves and they say, no, you haven't got room to be offended because you've honored yourself already and you would do the same. So instead of going, Aw, they didn't help me, or well, obviously there's something on that person's side that they've valued that they had to honor it. And I have to honor that they've, when it's something else that's more important than whatever I need. So the moral of the story is he, everyone's just got to honor themselves. It's not selfish. It is not selfish. And if you think that way, you're always abundant. You know, it's that, it's that sliding perspective. That's what cancer taught me that every, you could take it two ways and you got to pick your door and you got to slide in and all you can do is pick the doll that you think is most aligned to you, shamelessly aligned to you. Even though there's like, you know, there's like, you know, a choir of people going, you just have to honor yourself, you know,

and taking the risk because I think that's what a lot of people are hesitant to do is taking what all of us are hesitant to take risks because it's risky and it's uncertain. But one of the things I've really loved kind of watching you this last year and kind of walking alongside you is watching you step into risk and saying like, I'm shitting myself and I'm totally afraid, but I'm going to do it. And not because it's not, feel the fear and do it anyway. It's not that, it's what being brave and courageous looks like is honoring myself. That's what feeling the fear. I hate those feel the you're in denial. I hate that quote because I think it's mindless. Like you're, you're, you're pushing past, I dunno what I think is actually more courage and bravery is doing what I need and honoring myself and yes, that might be scary, but that is what, yeah, totally

foliage. Like, you know, if you look at this on a piece of paper, I have a job that I loved, kids that I loved, a subject that I adored. Um, you know, my boss was super supportive of any of the art things that I wanted to do around the school. It was easy money

and stable, consistent income, which yeah.

Yeah. Like have you got a family income every two weeks but

well isn't aligned.

Yeah. Was I growing? I don't know. Did I feel there was something in that felt like, Mmm, I was a caged bird that I needed to just, yeah.

Yeah. And so what have you noticed now than when you started? So you recovered over November, December, 2019

January, yeah.

Birthday. And then started kind of toying with the idea of doing online inspiration. Yeah. And doing the home groups over the school holidays of art, you know, teaching art to kiddos at home and then walk us through a little bit the fear of like putting myself out there online. You know, like I remember before you did some of your first videos, it was like, I'm doing a video of myself where you, hi, hi,

shut up. We're not doing it online.

So many cool things to share and like do it, do it. And then now you like you bust out a video,

no book a year ago. When was it? Where are we made? It was tidy cupboard creatives was birth last may when I was mid pillar project and the program that, that course allowed space for me to be brave and even just set up and Instagram page. Okay. So tiny cupboard creatives was born and in my head the pitch was I'm going to share my practice globally, connect with art educators in America, whatever. And then I went into my first exhibition and then that was it. That's where the buck stopped. Then because of Instagram I had parents saying, Oh, I want you to teach my children. And I was like, are you freaking crazy? Cause I felt like an imposter. Yeah. At that point I felt like an imposter that I should have gone to find out. I should have done graphic design. Why would I teach your children? That was the impostor, Jerry. Very strong.

Um, how you used to say I'm not an artist and then I look at the canvas behind you, girl. I'm not an artist. My ass. Yeah,

yeah. But I was fully believing in that. Yeah, totally. That's so subscribing to the story that I'm not an artist and like, why am I not an artist? Because I didn't go to school or I haven't done an exhibition or whatever. No. It doesn't matter that I've taught it for five years or you know,

artists. I mean, you look at, I look at this stuff. What did you do the other day on Instagram? The popups and the time lapse of you doing the popup thing. And I'm like, this is such a, you're an artist. Like the creativity and the, the ideas that you can get onto paper, um, are using the, the other day, the carrots, you know, as stamps and stuff like that. Like

you're an artist. So, but for me, I'm like, anyone could do that. Yeah. That's when I'm having a low, that's, that's where I'm at. You know, um, someone commissioned that piece, that carrot piece, the toilet, they love the fact that it was toilet roll and like bleeds, like, Oh, it's such a statement. She said, she's like, Oh my God, I love it because it's such, um, when I buy this from you, it'll remind us of where we were in that time in our life where we couldn't even get toilet paper. Right. Going back to nature and doing the basics. And I was just like, I don't give, I think I'm still learning about what I offered this, this universe. And that's why I hesitate because things that I take for granted, like smashing out some toilet paper with cute colors, it's something that I just take for granted and several often say, how do you know?

I'm like, I don't know. I just feel it. And there's this new art form that, um, that I've learned from the States called intuitive painting. And that really, I've been looking into that. And the idea of that is just using, bringing out all the different mediums and just going towards the one that attracts you and putting that down and just shaking it up. And there's no, there's no particular plan and you're just flowing. And that's a lot of my, um, interest is kids just have this on tap. Yeah. They don't have a loud inner critic that overthinks things. They just, they just do it. And that's why I feel like kids service, I feel like they inspire me more than they even realize because I'm like, God, that kid just like you cranking the watercolors, like it's an acrylic. I'm like, I would never, I'm so precious with my water colors, you know, because of this one kid in my five-year-old class, he would just, I'm not finished.

And he would just just keep smashing up this watercolor. I'm like, that's amazing. I love how he, uh, was able to teach me about that. Just do it. What do you feel? And I think because I'm doing art packs now and I'm teaching online, and every day I'm forced to take the time to create. It's coming more naturally. Yeah. You know, you don't have to follow an agenda. You don't have to follow a curriculum plan. You get to just do what feels right for you in the day. And that's why I, Oh the, I felt shackled by a system, um, about paper paper. And I questioned a lot, not the school, but the system, like this big system that we've set up for our kids. And funnily, funnily enough, I have the kids, she doesn't fit the system

like me.

And you know, it's funny, like growing up, I was always told that I was too loud to this, to that, Oh, like too, too, too witty, like too quick with my words. And I realized, actually that's a super power. I'm 40 and I've just discovered, I'm not gonna apologize for being quick with my words anymore. And the fact that I, I can speak, it's actually a strength, not a weakness. And I look at my children and I'm like, Oh God,

they're the same. But I just need them to not,

I need them to be kind while I navigate these big feelings, you know, I need them to know who they are without putting them out.

Yeah. That's really, it's really, it is really hard. It is very hard. It is very hard. But Tempe main, right? Yeah. Don't be a jerk to your sister.

Biggie. Right. But don't draw blood. It's like, Oh God, I didn't end up on a car to fair. I have one, I don't want to be on a car. Oh my God. I can steady top. It'll be like, so yeah. In, in regards to finding purpose, I think that cancer gave me the get out of jail free card.

Mm. What would you say though to people? Because I would like to say I don't want to get cancer. I want to do that shit no more. I don't want like, so how would you encourage people to do that? Like how, how, like how can we manufacture that? How can I go and do that? Going into the wilderness, find my dark nice of the soul, you know? How can I, how do you reckon you can encourage that or create that on your own?

I feel like it's interesting. I've seen a few people in my life turn corners since it's almost like they, my cancer triggered and that got them to jump before they got told they had anything crazy. Yep,

yep, yep. Yeah, that's it guys. Jay, you inspired me for that for sure. Yeah, definitely. With a lot of, yeah, doing more content of like getting my message out there of the stuff that I'm passionate about to just sort of give people some of the tools and the strategies that you don't have to suffer so much. Like pain is inevitable in life, but suffering is optional and that if you have some tools and strategies of how to, the ways you can parent different or the way you can love yourself and repairing yourself or whatever, that it kind of motivated me of just sort of like, time's ticking. Let's go. You know that because I think we're in a similar life stage and so it kind of taught me like, shit, I don't want to get cancer. And that would be the thing for me to make me go get out there, share your gifts, tell your story, be yourself, you know, who cares what other people think about your Instagram videos. Just get your, your self out there of the stuff that you want to communicate to people. You inspired me so much to just go like, fuck it. Just get it out there because time's sticking and you don't know when your time is up.

I did not know that. [inaudible] I um, I wish I had a more gentle way of delivery

cause I'm in the middle of the campus. I forget that I've sat with it for days and nights, minutes, seconds, and then I just kind of blurted out there like, Oh, cancel God. Jesus. It's really jarring. And that's my method. Like, you know, my husband's always like, you're so Jari with your words because my language is very colorful shit. But I always say like, what are you waiting for you, you're waiting for cancel and you know, the reality is it's kind of true. Yeah. You know, I mean a really, really beautiful friend Hussman taught me that. She's like, you know what? Your issue is yours. You really, really Excel in the dark. Mmm. You're always, you really, your light shines really bright in the dark. She was like, what you need to accept though is that you can shine that light really bright even when it's not dark.

So that's my challenge is that when I'm forced into a corner or small, small classroom or cancel, whatever, I'm very good at making dancing my way out of it, trying to find out what it's going to change my perspective so I can not feel shitty. Well angry or where is that person coming from because I'm really agitated. You know? Like you, you actually said this thing to me. You said to me, who are you going to be the person who drives the car? Let someone through and whites for a wave or do you just let them go and don't even look to see if it's a bad thought? I always wait, even to this day, I'm like, you know, you better wave. But then, then I realize what that's about. When people don't wait back at me, I don't just, you know, I say to myself, Oh shit man, they had no nothing in their cup to even wave at a stranger to say thank you when someone is nasty, nasty people or sad people or people that are suffering.

So nothing to do with me. So when I, when I see those people drive past, after I've waited and let them go through, I realize how lucky I am to have the capacity to wave because they don't have that capacity. And it always comes back to it's not, um, this isn't about anybody else. It's always about you. And that's a really, really uncomfortable a reality for lots of people that to grow you have to feel discomfort. And we've been taught by multiple cultures. I don't know if it's cultural. I think it's social that when it's not good you bail, but actually this is the time where you need to dig and stay. It's just like Corona and I don't like discomfort precedes change. Yeah. That's where most of us turn the corner where I get to the intersection of discomfort and then we go Whoa.

And we turn rather than going, Oh, discomfort and then turning into it and leaning into it. Most of us don't do that and I think when we first start to get practice and leaning into the discomfort, you realize then you can drive through it and there's this amazing land on the other side of it, but most of us don't go through it. We stop and turn left and I think you only get practice and then once you get practice, then you go, ah, I'm supposed to turn right when I get to the intersection of discomfort. And then you get better at it and you do it more consistently. But I still think every time I get to an intersection of discomfort, there's a part of me that's like, I know I'm supposed to turn right and like lean into the discomfort and I'm going to grow or learn or there's going to be abundant amazingness to section though. I think you need to make space for the swearing and the team. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There is an element, I'm not saying guys, you know other cancer, you should try it. Right? You get there and you're like, fuck shit.

I call you. I call all the people in my life that bring light. I moan and I cry and I throw things and then I forget. Right. Yeah. You know, and, and it's funny, I've been homeschooling Molly, you know, and he's really resistant and this is what I've been telling him. He's like, I don't want to do it. It's really hard. I'm like, you're going to have to push, boy, we're going to be easy. You need to push. And you know, you know that you can do this. I know you can do this, but it's never going to be easy. If you have to learn. Yeah. And I wish I knew and I'm sure my parents would have told me in their own ways that life isn't going to be easy, but I think the key is to know yourself enough to do it anyway.

As long as I tell my kids is, as long as you're kind, you don't have anyone else think, you just have to be you, you know? And there are certain things like reading and writing that you just do because you know, it's just a life skill, you know? Um, but the foundation of it, the core is knowing you and being yourself and then that I guess. So maybe it's like that is the vehicle, that's what you get to that intersection and then what actually carries you through and what carries you through that ability to turn right and through the discomfort and the pain is the knowing of myself and being true to who I am and not trying to be someone else. That's what carries me through. However, I do have a hangup about that. A lot of people say things like, Oh, that's just me.

Like, I can't, that's just the way I am. I don't agree. I think we're extremely flexible, malleable spirits. Agreed. There is a core essence that is us. Yes. And then there are all these frills yes accessories that is not us. That's our conditioning. It's our conditioning that we've been told our whole lives that this is who you are, how you are. And I know this sounds really rude, podcast land or wherever land, but there's something about knowing what you're about. Um, you know, knowing your, your powers, your superpowers and being shameless about owning them and all that stuff. When people tell me, um, that's just the way I am. Like that's probably one of the hardest things that I find hard to digest cause that makes me feel like, Oh then you're not going to change. You're not even going to try. You're just going to try and lift all the time.

But it is that, you know, there is um, cross stitching threads, like where you've got to pull them apart. It's like, it is a really hard one. It looks like one thing, but actually there's all these little schemes in there. Like you've got a physical about eight of them in there, you know? And I think that's what we are as people, but there's so much output that comes in. It's hard to see that there's anything else about that. So how did you realize that you were capable of change? Because I think a lot of us would say that's just how I am. I mean a lot of this is something we talked about after I did Tony Robbins in September and we debriefed about UPW and saying how one of the biggest things we both kind of took away was that shift of like, but is that who I really am?

Like all the supplementing beliefs that I think this about myself, that it just flips. That whole experience, just flips all of that upside down and it just makes you look at everything and go, dude, wait, what? What is real? Who am I really? How do we get when he said, Oh, you know, you're comparing yourself to values that were given to you. So, and you've never ever questioned them. Yes, yes. Outside of UPW, like for everyone who's listening, who hasn't done a Tony event, um, how does one flip that? How do you, how do you get the lights to turn on amidst all of the darkness or conditioning of what I think is, is real and normal and who I am. How does one shift, how do you go? I don't know. How does one eliminate and discover who I really am? Cause I think one thing I'm hearing from you is that that's a bit of what cancer did.

Great cancer lit up the room with a flood light to make you go, who am I really? Tony can do that, you know, lots of other transformative weekends, you know, or Iowasca there's lots of stuff that people can do to figure out who am I really? Um, what do you like? Cause I know, you know people, I know people, they get to the intersection and they say, Oh my gosh, Sharon's left, you know, courage and teach people to push. Right. I mean, one of the things that I think of and say to people is, okay, so are you saying that you've always turned left? And they say, yeah, that's what I always do. Then I go fucking turn right. Let's see what happens when you turn right. Like that's, that's scary. I know when it's almost like a curtain, Oh Paik stage curtain, you know?

But you know what guys, if you turn right and you don't like what's on the other side of the, it's totally fine, you know? Yeah, that's great. Less fine. And we got, I was talking to a friend about this just the other day, he was talking about how he's in this job, it gets good money, you know, and could he be doing more? Sure. And I'm like, ah, that's the hangup for me. You say, cause I feel like you're being greedy with your super power. You could be contributing to something else. Instead, you're just kind of knowingly huddling it to yourself. Yes. And I can't help it. How do we do that? Why do we do that? Is it because you feel like you're not good enough? And that's the key. It goes back to you need to feel like you're good enough because then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. And I feel like it wasn't just cats or I felt like the last three years since meeting you has been like this karate kid training platform. Like I've been watching the cars and painting the fence. Lots of cancer. I'm freaking doing it. Yeah. And then I was in it. I was in the tournament. Yeah. You know, and the reality is people, you don't have one cancer for sure. For sure. But no one's immune. Yeah. Just like the Corona,

you know? So I think to myself, and I've said that to girlfriends and friends, what are you waiting for?

Yeah.

And the, you know, the cancer did it for me. And I guess how do we, I don't know. It's you. You haven't said it to me at the start. You, you're going to be one of those weird people that come up with those sayings. Like, dad's like no one's watching. Yeah. And it's true. I have become one of those people. It's, it's really weird. And it's like, well, you know, no, Hmm. You know, [inaudible] I can see why those peak, those means exists. Or those are, those quotes exists because it's exactly that. Yeah. It's like, what are you waiting for? Yeah. And I've always told Seb, I don't want to live a life that's, you know, I'm not a, and if you want to stay home and do those things and that's your spirit, then go for it. But I've always known there's something else. Yes. And I needed a pass from the universe to say now go. Yeah. Yeah. And that was cancer for me. I mean like for real, I wish I had a smaller ticket, but the ticket was real. And um, after recovering from that, I had a month off and people asking me, please, can you teach my kids? I mean,

okay. And I turned right.

Huh.

Unless it's that quote that I, I think I've said to you before that I love of leap and the net will appear is so true. And that's exactly what you did, which I think is so amazing too, because coming off of cancer, I think leaping was like the last thing. Someone who's in recovery from something would want to take a leap into the unknown and to put themselves out there. I mean, I think it goes against our kind of, it goes against our better judgment or we, it's counterintuitive to go, okay, I just got through something really gnarly and now I'm going to jump again and just hope that the net appears. You know, it's that kind of, I already had the momentum, I felt like a warrior already. You know, I had all these, I've got all these battle scars on my body. Yeah.

Um, and what's the worst thing that could happen? It makes me think of, um, Glennon Doyle. She said, um, she has this whole book. Have you read untamed yet by the way? Her newest book. Oh girl. Oh my Lord. It is so amazing. Okay. She has this whole thing in there about um, you know, being burned by the fire and how that's our kind of, this is sort of the intersection of left and right and how we have this belief about pain that I need to avoid pain and stay away from it. But in actuality when you step into the pain or she calls it like the fire and then you come out the other side, you realize that you're fireproof. And so what we need to be doing with our children and with ourselves is when the fire is there actually step into it. And then you realize and your children realize that they're fireproof

rather than trying to shield them and protect them from it. And the same thing with ourselves and what I think I watched within you in the last year is you stepped into the fire, you realized you were fireproof. And then that's what made it so easy for you in a lot of, I know it was hard, but it was still a lot easier I think now than it would have been five years ago of stepping into doing tiny cupboard creatives. And doing YouTube and doing videos and putting yourself out there like that because you realized I am fireproof, nothing can touch me now.

Not yet. And I felt like that's the, um, that was the gift of the last six months. Yeah. That, Oh, you can't tell me I have to being caught up in five times. I can't, it doesn't scare me, although it did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway. Like if it really scared you that much, you wouldn't have done it, you know?

Well, you know. Yeah. That's it. Like, you know, I have parts of my body that I can't feel, um, someone actually you asked me, we really remember that moment you thought you were going to die. And I'm thankful that I can't feel parts of my body because it's a really, really daily reminder to step into my purpose. Like every day. I think last week my mantra was elevate, elevate, elevate, step up, step up higher. You know, and I have this, this is like very UPW guys, but I have, I still have my cold showers every day and every day I see that as like a cold to zap me into, to focus what needs to happen today. And, and part of me hopes to be able to have all my blinkers or all my feelers out so I know where I'm supposed to go. You know? And when I met you, I would never have believed that this would be my reality, that I would have all these cards dealt to me. And I think, you know, all the people out there that feel like they don't have what they need, you actually have everything you need for now.

And my whole business was born without being tech savvy. It was just with a phone and a dodgy tripod. You know, there's no outros or intros, that's nothing. There's nothing fancy about me. But you know what? I used to make dolls that were imperfect and people loved them. And I'm far from perfect. And that's what I bring to the table is a lack of shimmer in that I'm not perfect. Unscrambling the kids are coming in God that stodgy. But here take, you can have it. It's okay. It's real. It's real life. Yeah. And I think social media is beautiful for connection, but just be careful not to compare. And if you do compare, know yourself before you do it or else you're going to feel like you're not good enough.

And you taught me that, right? That people will come if they, if they buy with you, it's actually not about my lessons, you know, it's about, well it is, but it's about how much I love the lessons that I teach myself and you know, and for me, for little people, I want them to know that there are artists that are alive. Yeah. You don't need to learn about the old school. Awesome, awesome. Old school artists love it. Great. But there's also people that are living yeah. In your city that make art as living, that have been paralyzed by some trauma or um, have been really sick that's still pushed through [inaudible] and shit. They love of whatever that they love with all of us. And I think that's really powerful. You know,

what does art mean to you? What would you say? What does it mean to you and why?

Why do you need art? Because some people would be listening to this going, yeah, I don't do arts, arts for other people and I believe art is for every, I believe it's for everyone. I think everyone has a creative something, something in, it could be cooking and food. It could be gardening, I dunno, but I feel everybody has to get some sort of creativity words, you know, writing or whatever. But so everyone has their arts, you know, actors performing whatever. What does art mean to you and why do you think being creative and engaging in art is important?

Well, that's, that's a really big question. I've never been asked that. I don't know what it is about art. I think you know what it is. When I go, if someone asks me, where's your favorite place in people? I go to the beach or whatever. I'm always like an art gallery. So it's like, what is wrong? I said, there's something about an art space that you go in. It's like, Oh my God, all of these people were in flow at some point. And that's what I desire for myself, right. To be in that untapped state of flow where I'm shamelessly creating bravely creating on tap and with art there's something about the colors that it's, that it's that flow that I love about it. It makes me feel alive, excited, even on fire. Like a summer I was doing to Kyle with the cafe and they asked me to do some coloring in pages or, and I said to him, I just feel like I'm on fire. Like it's just spewing out of me.

Mm.

You know, I went to do four and I walked away with 12. Wow. You know, and I, I think one of the commissions that I did just like on the weekend or like, what did I gave away on the weekend? Like I thought the same about that piece. It just kind of, I don't know, it comes out, it comes out of me and it likes me and there's something about, ah, that's quite meditative for me. It's, uh, it sounds really weird because it's the opposite to what everyone else thinking. It feels like it's real. This is real, this feeling that I get when I'm making or observing art is what life's really about. Being right there in it and swimming in it. And if I could do that at all times, I would. Hmm. And that's what art does for me. That's the key. And people might get that from running or cooking or playing music or listening to music or whatever. But for me, that's what art does. It really, I don't know, is it about dressing?

Yeah. Presence. I think it makes you present. It brings you into the present moment. I mean, you hear that from people who like, you know, rock climbing without a safety line or whatever that they say. It just makes you present, present, present, present, present. You know, it just brings you so into the moment and into the now that, Mmm. Yeah. Maybe that's what it's doing for you is it's keeping you centered in today, not yesterday or tomorrow, but in the right now.

But not only that, there's something weird that happens. Yeah.

In flow. Yeah, totally. It just, I always say, I say it feels like, or flow feels like where you're connected to something bigger, something bigger, the greater source, the greater, um, powers out there, whatever that is, God, the universe, source, whatever you want to call it. Um, and I think what, it's cool when you can find something, either you're paid for it or you're not, but when you can find whatever that thing is for you, surfing, cooking, art, whatever the thing is where you feel that connection. I mean, I feel sometimes when I'm in session with people, I literally feel it through the top of my head that I feel like I'm connected to something else. And I'll be saying stuff and get like on a rant and I'll just be saying this stuff. And I'm like, I don't even know where that came from. Yeah. I don't even know what that was, but I just know I'm in flow and I'm aligned with who I am and my purpose and my skills, you know?

And that's kind of scary sometimes because you don't feel that control, you know? And you know, I guess other creatives feel this way. You can find that flow and it's, you've done this piece and you don't like it and it's just annoying and shame. You feel ashamed. But he couldn't find that. But I think, I think Deepak Chopra's book, when we did that 21 day meditation thing, he said, um, yeah, Jared meditation isn't the calm your mind. It's just about making space so that creative creative solutions can come up. You know, if you're constantly pummeling at something, you're not going to have the space to, to come up with something creative. That's unusual. And that's not just to do with art, that's just life of solutions. Like, you know, logistics of running a family like okay, who needs to be where and when again, and if you don't have that space, you can't make those decisions.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think to art for me, make space. Like I feel like it's almost like I have an extra oxygen tank underwater. I've noticed like the last few weeks with just the stress elevated stress levels and homeschooling and working from home and just, you know, our extrovert selves are struggling cause we're not able to socialize and do all that stuff. Struggling that I've been drawing so much and coloring, doing your coloring in sheets. And I'm just drawing, like when I've had phone sessions with clients, I've just found, I've been doodling and stuff like that. And I find it just, it feels like an expanse like that. I just am going kind of

when I do it

or do art and I don't know if that's everyone. I've actually found a few of my friends who say I'm anti-art or I have a friend of mine who said I don't really like art. And then she's been homeschooling and having art as part of her daughter's curriculum. And she's like, I found, I actually really like art and it's just so doing Mondalez and just sort of zenning out coloring. And I'm like, yeah,

you know, you just gotta keep, keep at it. You find the thing you like? You know, someone said to me, um, she's really gorgeous. She shared my page. She goes, guys, if you've got kids or if you're an adult that likes art, I follow her page and I don't even like art. She's like, I don't like art and I'm not creative, but I'm finding myself watching these things. It's me. It's really funny. I'm like, Oh my God, that means so much because you're actually an adult who doesn't like to art. And I think it's interesting during Corona times, people that don't make, don't value the arts. I bet you a thousand dollars other, the people that are watching Netflix and listening to music and valuing the arts, valuing the arts, I said it's, it's, it's more than just a pretty picture for me. Although to be fair, like I form over function always. Like it's got to look beautiful or else I've got to like find it visually appetizing for me, every single thing of my being, I need to feel inspired. That's just like, Oh God, you know?

But I think it's cool that you're bringing a lot of inspiration. Yeah. For the non RD people, but you're bringing a lot of inspiration I think for kids, um, to think about mediums and stuff that they would never think of like sculpture or you know, with Calder and the mobiles. And when we did the aluminum foil for the spider and stuff like that, like there's so many times painting stick. Yeah, exactly. Oh yeah. On the wall. Who was that? Where you painted on or Frida and laying in the chair and doing it on the under the chair, like, cause the girls, um, like to watch your YouTube when we have dinner. So we watched you on YouTube, on the TV and watch whatever artists are doing that day. And then there's some that really resonate and it's really interesting, like Gracie, you know, who's four has, she loves Keith Herring.

And so we've watched the Keith Haring one a million times and I feel like I could recite his book. Um, he just kept drawing, but then it's funny how then to see how later they are taking it in. And then either after dinner or the next day we start doing whatever art project goes with it and how it means more to them because they've connected with the artist. So you've in you so good at inspiring kids and even me like, you know when we've come to your house to do, it's a child's class. But then there's me sitting there like I love doing all the craft, you know. Anyway. Um, I think it's so cool that you are inspiring in that same way that you feel inspired by art. You have then been inspiring children and adults. Cause I know you've said that about other parents at the classes that they then get inspired and get into this. I didn't know I was creative. I didn't know I liked art or I didn't know I had that side of me. You're tapping into that and helping like foster that, which I think is so cool.

It's been really funny. Like, um, Saturdays of the day is that dads do pick ups and the amount of times I've had dads after the class playing with like silk crayons, several come home with the kids. I'm like, it's playing with silk crayons. I've never, I said it is a textual sensation to be fed. It's very sensory, you know? And they're like, Oh right. And I guess I, I like to go right when I teach art because people aren't expecting it. And it's funny cause I taught low set, so low socioeconomic refugees or you know, for like 17 years and these guys aren't low socioeconomic but the jam is still the same. Okay. So you go to these really beautiful schools, what can I give you that you won't get at school? And in my head I'm like, I'm going to make you feel empathy for these artists.

The Fritos who were injured, who had to lay on their back for three months or one childhood. Oh, why did that take him like two days to do that mural? Like that's too long. And so I gave them a real wall and I got them to paint the wall and I gave them an hour, five minutes in the same child. This is really hard. That's right. Don't judge somebody unless you've done it. Totally. And I really love that. That's like the juicy bit for me when I rock their boats in here a bit. I love that cause it's like all my teeth, like you know, got really sick, couldn't paint. Does he give up? No, he gets a stick. He gets some people and he says do it for me. I love that. And the kids like this is really hard. I'm like, well look at how long he's stickies, he can't move.

And I, for me, that's my jam. It's that storytelling, the art as a force to connect them. I think it's quite powerful. And teaching kids about people like Keith Haring where he just couldn't help himself. Yeah, totally. And I love that and I love how he didn't, he didn't, and he's there. The one, I think Pollock was the same. He didn't label his drawings, he didn't give it a title. He didn't want him to tell people what to think. He just wanted them to figure it out or feel whatever they were feeling. And I think in life we're always told to think a certain way. And I love how these artists have really screwed with that. That thought process of, now you tell me what you think, you know, and making it about poor people, rich people having access to that. It's not just a, I mean if you go to, sorry, like the Archibalds or something, it's all really super rich people. White, wealthy. And I love the idea of um, street artists bringing it, bringing it to us. Cause like who are we to say it's only for rich people, right. Totally. Um, there's so many elements that I love about it that I want to share with you

all children, people, adults. And you're doing that. So how can people find you? Where can people connect with you and learn from you and get inspired? Where can they find you? What are all your handles? And so Instagram is tiny cupboard creatives. So tiny underscore, cupboard underscore creatives. Cool. And on YouTube it's the same.

Okay. Awesome. So YouTube is where all my full lessons are. Pitchable books, um, activities. And for the time Paul parents shortcut versions of the activities cause he's got 20 minutes, you know, just feel free to play that playlist. Girl. Lay down. Yeah. And Instagrams where I share snippets. So if something resonates with you, you can follow it along on YouTube land. Yeah. And I've got a website too that I need to update with all my outtakes and stuff, but I'm here.

Yay. Well, thank you so much for your and for sharing some of your journey and some of your experience and sharing all the stuff that you want to tell the others. And um, yeah, that was really cool. That was really valuable, dude. I really appreciate your insight and your time, and I think everyone will finish this podcast feeling inspired and wanting to go draw. Mmm. And check you out. Thanks for the light. You shine, girl. Oh, it's the pleasure to do life with you. It's a privilege. All right, we'll talk. We'll talk soon. All right.