Many places in The Salvation Army have a staff band or a staff songsters brigade. But how many have a staff worship team? Here in the Canada and Bermuda Territory, we have NEON. This territorial worship group made its debut back in 2016. But last November marked the beginning of a new era for the group, as NEON became an official staff section—the only worship team to have this designation anywhere in the Army world.
In this episode, we sit down with Simon Gough, the leader of NEON, to talk about the group’s mission and how it can support worship teams across the territory. And we discuss broader issues facing worship leaders today, and how Salvation Army song writing builds up our movement.
Visit NEON's website
Find NEON on social: Facebook / Instagram
Listen to NEON on Spotify
Many places in The Salvation Army have a staff band or a staff songsters brigade. But how many have a staff worship team? Here in the Canada and Bermuda Territory, we have NEON. This territorial worship group made its debut back in 2016. But last November marked the beginning of a new era for the group, as NEON became an official staff section—the only worship team to have this designation anywhere in the Army world.
In this episode, we sit down with Simon Gough, the leader of NEON, to talk about the group’s mission and how it can support worship teams across the territory. And we discuss broader issues facing worship leaders today, and how Salvation Army song writing builds up our movement.
Visit NEON's website
Find NEON on social: Facebook / Instagram
Listen to NEON on Spotify
Kristin Ostensen
This is the Salvationist podcast. I’m Kristin Ostensen. Many places in The Salvation Army have a staff band, or a staff songsters brigade. But how many have a staff worship team? Here in the Canada and Bermuda Territory, we have NEON. This territorial worship group made its debut back in 2016. But last November marked the beginning of a new era for the group, as NEON became an official staff section—the only worship team to have this designation anywhere in the Army world. In this episode, we sit down with Simon Gough, the leader of NEON, to talk about the group’s mission and how it can support worship teams across the territory. And we discuss broader issues facing worship leaders today, and how Salvation Army song writing builds up our movement. Be sure to stay tuned to the end of the episode to hear NEON’s most recent recording, We Are the Church.
Hi, Simon. Welcome to the Salvationist podcast.
Simon Gough
Hi, thanks for having me.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah, of course. So, we're here to talk about NEON. And can you tell me about the beginning of NEON, what led to its formation?
Simon Gough
Well, in about 2015, the music department in general went through a big set of changes as far as moves of officers and things like that. So, there's a lot of personnel changes. And as part of that, Craig Lewis came in as the territorial music secretary. And he, as part of the hiring process for his team, wanted someone who could kind of establish a group that would function the way NEON does. My role coming in was starting a worship team that could travel around the territory and represent at different events, and things like that. And so, it was really kind of part of his plan for the department and how that would work. And that was back in 2016, we really got going. I think it was the commissioning in London, Ontario, in 2016 that was our first kind of event that we were part of, and we kind of pulled things together quite quickly. I think we got together in April, and then we're on in that June. So it was a quick turnaround to get things kind of established. But yeah, it was busy and it was great. I mean, we had a goal straightaway.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah, absolutely. I do remember being there when NEON made its debut. And of course, in November, NEON was officially installed as a staff section for the territory. So, what exactly does that mean? And why is it significant?
Simon Gough
So, staff sections were, originally, they were actual stuff from territorial headquarters and things like that. And they would make bands and songsters traditionally. As time went on, they became groups that were kind of representative groups. So, they’d take on members from corps round usually where that local area was. So, in a lot of other countries in the world, that staff group is actually named by the city that they're from within that territory. So you've got the Chicago Staff Band, or the New York Staff Band or the Sydney Staff Songsters, Amsterdam Staff Songsters. So, Canada and Bermuda is anyone who has the Canadian Staff Band. It's really people located geographically around the Toronto area. So yeah, it became this group that could do ministry outside of the confines of local corps, week to week ministry, and kind of an extra thing that people who were really investing into that area of musical ministry could go and serve and use their gifts to encourage people further afield, rather than just their own corps, I guess, and really serve the territory in the needs that they have, whether that's going visiting small corps that don't have music resources, or whether that's playing commissionings and big events and things like that. And one of the main things at the start was to be an example to other groups so that corps groups could aspire to be playing that way, and they bring new music and they kind of try new things and show what a brass band or a choir could do. And so that's part of the exciting thing about NEON is that we can kind of do, fulfil some of those roles, the traditional roles of the staff section. So we have a group that they're all serving in their own corps, they're all leaders, and some are the worship leader at their corps and some are members of the worship teams and other parts of the corps, and all very active members of their corps, and that's part of the requisite the being in NEON. You need to be serving locally and be part of that. But then we have the ability to go to a FUSE weekend and lead worship for the weekend and fulfil a need that the division, the territory, the corps, whatever it is, has—to kind of be that group that focuses on the needs of the broader Salvation Army, I guess, as well as our local corps. So being a staff section as a worship team is really significant. I don't think there's another staff section worship team anywhere in the world. And it's a validation and a recognition that this is a really important part of Salvation Army music making, of our expression of love to God through music, and that we’re being included in that conversation of, how can we help people around the territory? How can we do this? Well, worship teams are part of that. And this kind of, hopefully, it's an encouragement for those people serving in worship teams around the territory, that what you do is important and valued. And, yeah, that they see that it's something that's being invested into as well. So, part of being a staff section means that we get the tools that we need to do ministry, part of that is, yeah, helping us get to places so that we don't have to kind of say, Oh, we'd love to come but we can't get there. And we have some support to travel around the territory now and to serve broader afield than kind of where we can just drive, or things like that, or relying on corps or divisions to get us there—we can go to a DY somewhere and say, Hey, we can get ourselves there. What do you need us to do? Which is really, really exciting. Because that means we can be a territorial group rather than being kind of more geographically locked by what we can kind of manage to travel and stuff ourselves. So it's really great to have that support from the territory, and that investment in the worship life of the territory through our ministry.
Kristin Ostensen
Now, you mentioned some of the members, of course, they're all involved in their own local leadership. Can you give us a little overview of who's in the group and what the play how they're involved?
Simon Gough
So, we have Rabekah and Jake Wiseman, Rebecca sings and Jake plays acoustic guitar and they both lead worship at Meadowlands, at their corps in Hamilton. Paige Sharp is one of our other singers. She's part of the band and the worship teams at Oshawa Temple. We have, from Guelph Corps, there is Victoria Evans, who plays piano for us, and Carter Jones, who plays electric guitar. And they're both serving their worship teams there. And Carter's involved in the band. I think Victoria is involved in the Mission Board as well, at that corps. Jason Wilson plays bass guitar for us. And he's really involved in all the music stuff that goes on in Richmond Hill, and he's also coming to Mississauga as well and helping us with our band and stuff. So he's all over the place, doing music wherever he can and serving in lots of places there. Myles Washington-Purser goes to Mountain corps in Hamilton, and he's active in there, in the music ministry down there. And myself and Emajean Hobbin go to Mississauga Temple, or Mississauga Community Church now. And I lead worship there, Emajean plays in the band, she plays in almost every worship team we have and really does a great job on the keyboard there. So there's a broad area that we're pulling from, which is great, and all people who are really committed to their local setting and helping that be a great experience for the congregation with God through musical worship there and that's a positive thing all round.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah, absolutely. So what would you say are NEON’s main goals as a worship team and a staff section?
Simon Gough
Our main goal as a worship team is always going to be to facilitate the congregation's interaction with God. That's our main function as a worship team: we're there to support worship, we're there to provide the congregation with a space where they can meet with God, whatever their needs are in that time, through the songs that we present, and the words we say and the things we do in between to facilitate that space where people can have an interaction with God. And I think, any worship team across the territory, that's their main function. So really working on how we do that well, how we get out of the way, and let God be seen in what we do. Musically, we're doing things that work for the congregation. So, the most important part of a worship song is the lyrics because that's what people use to praise the Lord. And the melody carries the lyrics. And so how do we how do we support all of that? How is that the most important thing? It can be very easy, especially with a very talented group of musicians, to be very over the top with what we play, and with a lot of extra things in. And what we want to do is make sure that we do things to the best of our ability and be excellent at what we do, because that's a reflection of God's grace and power in our lives. We want to be a clear pane of glass that people can see through and see God, instead of a stained glass window that they see parts of us in. And I guess, as a staff section, we really want to, like we've talked about a little bit, be an example of how you can do this well, but also being an example of how we can work together, I guess, with other music sections. And there had been that kind of tension at times between worship teams and bands and songsters. And that's more about people rather than music—I think eventually it comes down to it's just people's preferences, or not wanting to let go, not wanting to change. So, I don't know that it's as much about the music as it is about people. But we want to be promoting unity in that. And so, as we worship, we want to be working with the staff songsters and the staff band regularly, and have the three groups kind of being a unit that really support worship across the territory and work together to enhance that worship experience for people. I say every great rock song has a symphony orchestra as part of it. And often we've got the parts that can do that sitting on the other side of the platform as we do our thing. So if we can do, if we can work together, and I think we've, the staff band and NEON have done that. At congress and INSPIRE Congress and commissioning last year, we did a couple of things together. And we got some really great feedback about that. And it was great. And our inauguration concert that we did in November was actually the Fall Festival for the staff band. And so, it was really cool to have the oldest staff group in the territory and the newest staff group in the territory working together and ministering together. So, we've been able to forge some kind of connections there and hopefully that can show, again, that example of corps, too: this is how you could do this, and this is how it could sound. And there's some work to be done to make it happen. But I think it's fantastic. I really, I believe if we have unity from the platform, as we lead worship that will translate to unity in our congregations, and unity in worship with God, in our worship of God.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah, that's a fantastic point, really kind of breaking down, maybe, the perception of division there between like, you have to do this kind of group or this kind of group. But no, you can do all the things, all the groups working together for worship, for God. Yeah, no, that's fantastic. What do you think are some of the biggest issues facing worship leaders today, both sort of within The Salvation Army, but maybe also some broader issues that you're seeing?
Simon Gough
That's a big question. [chuckles] I think it's really dependent on your location and your congregation. I think that worship leaders really need to know and be known by their congregation. So, some of those issues that they're facing are going to be very specific to where you're serving, where you're ministering. I think, in general, making sure that the songs that we provide give the words of prayer and praise and worship that the congregation sing. So, making sure that the songs we are asking people to sing are really songs that are worth using, and being discerning in our selection of what we ask our congregations to use in worship of God. I think the velocity of worship music coming out and trying to, the pressure to keep up with that at times and how we manage that with, most congregations don't have a large group of professional singers in the congregation. So, learning new songs all the time is quite hard for people, and even the connecting with God—when you're learning a new song, you're not actually, I don't think you're fully worshiping yet, because you're worrying about the melody, and you're worried about the lyrics, and you're taking those in and internalizing them, and how do you express that to God, and what does that mean in your life right now. Like, there's a great process in that. But I don't believe as you learn a new song, you're fully worshiping or focusing on God as much as you could be, than with a song that you've sung a million times, and you've maybe had an experience with God with, and it can take you back to those places. That's why changing worship music is so hard because it's people's experiences, not just a song—it's people's experiences of God. So, I think that's a challenge, too: how do we manage wanting to do new things, but that tension between style and preference, maybe in places where you've got a style that the congregation has, or the preference of the leaders, or vice versa, or parts of the congregation want to do something and other parts don't. And there's still a lot of tension there, I think, in different places. And again, that's one of those specific examples. And I think that's where the knowing and being known by your congregation is really important. Because we're servant leaders as worship leaders, first and foremost. So, we need to make sure that we are doing something that will help the congregation. We're facilitating that worship time for them, and that that's meaningful and significant. That doesn't mean we just do what the congregation want. Because if you're a servant leader, you still have to lead somewhere, right? That's by definition part of the thing. And so, if no one's following you, you're just walking somewhere. So, we've got to make sure that as we lead, we're bringing people with us. And biblically, we're called to do that, right? Like Psalm 96 calls us to sing a new song, and that's out of our expression of the overflow of love that we have for God, and the expression. It's not actually about new songs. It's about a new expression of love to God. And that's bigger than just songs; that's our devotion life, that's discipleship in our corps, that's all sorts of things. So I think music is often the vehicle for some angst in church life, in general, but it's often a reflection of other things in the church, and just music is the easy thing to kind of, “I do like” or “I don't like” or there's all sorts of things, that music presents itself as an easier target, I think you could say.
Kristin Ostensen
No, that's true, that's fair. Now, of course, there are going to be corps and folks listening to this across the territory who perhaps have really well-established worship teams. And maybe there are corps and folks that are kind of struggling to make things happen. How can NEON support both of these situations in their worship music ministry?
Simon Gough
Yeah, I think the biggest opportunity we have now as a staff group, and with the support we're getting now, is the ministry of presence, being there with people. And part of what we want to do is not just come and play some nice songs for you, but to work with corps musicians and to work with young people, divisional groups, things like that. I think one of the amazing things about Salvation Army music making is that you can go anywhere in the world, if you can play a brass instrument and sit in the band, that Sunday and be part of something, right. And so, we want to foster that kind of environment within our worship team members around the territory as well. I know that person X who plays solo cornet at the corps knows the solo cornet players from the other corps around, and if they need help, saying, “What sort of mouthpiece are you using?” All these sorts of things. They can have conversations that help them improve their skills, or encourage them, or “What music are you playing?” Like, they can have a dialogue, and I want to start creating that around the territory. So, as well as being there in person, kind of creating a space where people can gather thoughts and ideas and share ideas. And yeah, just try and be a positive agent for connection between worship leaders. But also, yeah, I guess being there, when we're invited to, to be part of training worship teams as well. There's a lot that you learn by experience and by just repetition. So, if there's worship teams starting, there's things that I guess I've learned along the way, and the members of our team have learned along the way, that we could hopefully help maybe some of that learning be a bit easier process for the other people behind us, rather than having to go through the same or make the same mistakes that I made or others have made along the way, right.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah, yeah. No, and you can't be the hands-on instruction for sure.
Simon Gough
Yeah. And then it's a real person as well, right? Like, you can be a name as part of a group or you could be a real person that someone can reach out to afterwards if they have a question. I'd definitely rather the latter there—that to be the real person who has a presence and who has a connection, I guess, and that connection is invaluable, I believe.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah, absolutely agree. I understand that one of NEON’s goals is to also write and record new worship music. Can you talk about maybe some of the recordings you've done so far? And what do you have in the works right now?
Simon Gough
Yeah, that's a really exciting opportunity that we have, is to, I guess, work with some of the talented people around the territory and showcase new music, but also to be writing our own stuff. We are working right now on writing a song for the FUSE events and working with the youth department, territorial youth department who do the FUSE events around the territory. And if they can get us the themes and stuff, we could hopefully write something that goes with that material and can be sent out, and we can record that, and so people could use that at those FUSE events. So that's a tie-in that, hopefully, we can do with our youth department, which will be really exciting for us. In 2018, I think, we released a short EP, a long time ago. We had a couple of really talented writers in the group at that time. And we've partnered with Partners in Mission, and so we had a song called Brighter in the Dark, and we put together a film clip for that and things like that. All the funds from that EP went to Partners in Mission because we thought that was an important way that our music could be more than just worship music. It can have an impact as well. So that was exciting. We’re also in the middle of working with the Canadian Staff Band and we’re releasing a couple of songs that the band and the worship team have recorded together and we're going to film those as well. So hopefully that'll be a resource that's useful for the territory, and people could use in their worship services, but also, again, model that unity between the two groups and help that to be kind of a visible thing in the territory, and really kind of being intentional about pushing, Hey, we can do this together, and then that can sound really good. And yeah, there's a lot of places where that would be relevant. So we're hoping that that's something that we can do regularly.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah, that's great. Now you have some other projects to encourage songwriting, such as the Salvation Worship, which I'm not sure if that's officially a NEON project, but can you perhaps talk a bit about how NEON supports initiatives like that? And perhaps other ones?
Simon Gough
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So, the Salvation Worship project is part of the music and arts ministries team, which I'm a member of. So, we kind of gather those songs. And members from NEON have submitted music to that before, and we’re definitely passionate about using that. One, because they're really great songs. But two, because they do have that intentional writing so that the song, the choral parts, the brass band parts, they all work together. So it makes it even easier to have that unity and that kind of cross-pollination of the groups working together, which is really exciting. And it's written by Salvationists all over the world, which is really cool. And so, it has some of those kind of Army distinctives; it talks about things that are important to us as a Salvation Army and part of what God's called us to. And part of it is using our older, the older lyrics from our song book and giving those songs a new life. So some of them—great words, but maybe were out of the Gowans and Larsson's musicals in the 60s, right. So you kind of have to get your bowler hat and your cane out to do some of those songs. They just kind of have a dated kind of melody, or chord progression, or whatever it is. And some very talented people around our territory and around the Army world have reset those to melodies that kind of speak to today's congregations and the way music has evolved and changed. And so, music is always changing, and church music is always changing. So, I think it's great that we're taking those amazing words that we have in our song book and putting them to new music and keeping them alive and relevant for a new generation, which is really exciting.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah, for sure. And you talked a little bit about, you know, Salvation Army songwriting, touching on sort of distinctives and issues that are important to us as Salvationists. What are some of those things that you are seeing in the Salvation Army songwriting world that do speak to our uniqueness, and the things that we are called to?
Simon Gough
I think part of it is that calling side. A lot of Salvation Army songs don't just stop at relationship with God; they progress into, what does that mean in our daily life? What does that mean in our actions? So one of the songs that was rewritten was Who is on the Lord's Side? That's all about, who's on the Lord side? “Who for him will go?” is the next line. So it's all about what we do with the love of God. And I think that's a very Salvation Army thing. Having grown up in The Salvation Army, I've been kind of brought up in this culture of, you do something because of the love of God in your life. And you act out of that, as a response to that, right. So that drives what we do. And I think that's, while it's not a Salvation Army distinctive as far as other churches—that they're called to that as well, and it's not just a Salvation Army thing. But I think there's a real focus on that for us. That drive of a lot of our mission is because of the need of others, and how do we actually do things, rather than just kind of enjoying the presence of God and being there. But also the holiness side of it as well. The Salvation Army's a holiness movement, and having some of the words of like General Orsborn, In the Secret of Thy Presence, and stuff that focus on holiness as well, which is not, again, not exclusive to The Salvation Army, but a really big important part of what we what we do as Salvationists and of who we are. I think having some of those things in there as part of, especially of the Salvation Worship series, and those things that, yeah, just give it a Salvation Army flavour. Like, all the churches are praising God and worshipping him, and we're all doing it in a slightly different way that God's raised us up. But I think there is something that God's called The Salvation Army to, and given us some of those things that are a little bit different and pushed us in a direction. And so, to add that in and celebrate that in our worship is really important.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah, very good points. And, you know, when you mention it, it's kind of like, Oh, yeah, I have really noticed that in our worship music. And that is a wonderful thing, that we can, you know, have that emphasis and that encouragement, right.
Simon Gough
It's not necessarily all bad, like the military language or anything like that. That was a very kind of time-specific thing and it worked in context in Victorian England. And like, those sorts of things, that was really specific to them. And kind of, culturally, in The Salvation Army, it’s kind of had a longer life than it may have in other churches and things like that. But the sentiment behind, “I'm committed to something, and I'm going to go and I'm going to serve,” is what's behind all of that. And I think that's part of what makes us who we are.
Kristin Ostensen
Yes, totally. And, of course, you've been the group's leader for a while now. So, when you look back, what have been some of your most significant or meaningful experiences with NEON since it made its debut?
Simon Gough
There's been some great opportunities that the group has had. We've been able to go to several different commissioning and congress events, and they've been great. Obviously, last year, at INSPIRE was a huge highlight. It wasn't the fact that we were at Massey Hall, or in a room with a lot of people. It was the openness and the willingness of people to worship. The sound coming back from the congregation was overwhelming as the worship leader. So, to start a song, and then I could just walk away from the microphone and the congregation were running with it, and there was nothing we could do to stop that song once it was started. We could kind of direct the next bit that they had to sing. But that's all—they were gone and they were into it, which was amazing, to be in a room where people were so keen to worship God, to be worshipping together, to do this as a congregation, as a corporate kind of expression as well, that was really powerful. I think that those big events are really, I think they have great value, for encouragement, for growth, and for just that sense of being together and worshipping together because sometimes it's tough. You can feel like you're on your own and things are tough. But when you can be encouraged by those around you, it really can help people. So, I really appreciate those times. I think we've done a couple of training events or corps retreats where we've actually been able to connect with the people really closely and work with small groups. And that's been just as rewarding as any big event ever. Because you feel like you're actually making a difference in the worship life of the corps and helping them to serve their congregation even better, in a way that helps them, yeah, facilitate that interaction with God in an even richer and fuller way, which is really exciting. One that we did in Halifax was just an amazing, powerful time and the Holy Spirit was just doing a fantastic work in the young people's lives there. And yeah, it was one of those times where we'd been kind of preparing, both our music and prayerfully and all those sorts of things. And it all kind of just came together in God's amazing plan in that particular place in that weekend. It was just, the things that we’d planned and that others had planned, the way it all just kind of worked together, even though we hadn't spoken about it or connected necessarily about specifics, but the plans we all kind of came with just kind of dovetailed together perfectly. And it was just one of those weekends where, yeah, you could feel that God was using the offering that you brought as a musician, as a leader, as someone who is really focused on the young people that were there at the time, to give them, again, just that opportunity to connect with God. And I think the group played really well. They're really sensitive to the Holy Spirit's leading. And as a leader, I could feel, I just knew what I needed to do next all the time. And that's not a me thing—that's not me knowing anything. It's, OK, the Holy Spirit really has something to do here, and we're just the kind of people executing it in the world on his behalf. Which is, that's an exciting thing to be part of a time like that, and to know that what you're doing is having an effect and seeing people connect with the Lord. That's the reason we do all this, right? Is to have people connecting with God and to give them that space. And so, when we're, it feels like you're really being strongly and firmly led by the Holy Spirit in that, that's a really exciting space to be in and to be ministering in.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for telling us all about NEON. And I'll be sure to put a link to your website in the show notes, so folks can go learn more and, hopefully, get the benefit of the support that your staff section is offering.
Simon Gough
Yeah, we would be so excited to kind of hear from people and hear what they need from us because we want to be, like I said, we want to be servant leaders. So it's hard to know how to serve unless you hear from people. So we'd love to hear from people. We have Facebook and Instagram as well, that they could connect to us through, so we'd love to hear from people. And not just, “Hey, can you come and help us?” It can be, “Hey, I just want to ask someone about this and I don't know who else to ask.” We cover things, right? So we want to be helpful and useful and relevant to people around the territory. So hopefully those lines of communication can be open.
Kristin Ostensen
Great, awesome. Well, thanks so much again.
Simon Gough
No problems. Thank you for having me.
Kristin Ostensen
Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Salvationist podcast. For more episodes, visit salvationist.ca/podcast. And now, here’s We Are the Church by NEON.