The Chef JKP Podcast
The Chef JKP Podcast
Season 5 - Episode 2 - Carmine Faravolo - Roots are Important!
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In this episode of the ChefJKP Podcast, host James Knight-Paccheco interviews Chef Carmine Farovolo.
They discuss Carmine's culinary journey, starting from his formative years cooking with his grandmother in Naples to his experiences working with renowned chefs around the world.
Carmine shares stories of his time in the kitchen, including a memorable incident where he forgot to cook a beef fillet for a VIP table.
He also talks about the importance of traditional Italian cuisine and his goal to be one of the best Italian restaurants in Dubai.
ChefJKP and Carmine discuss:
• Working in Michelin-Starred Restaurants and Making Mistakes
• Street Foods in Naples, including Pizza Varieties
• Challenges and Aggressiveness in Kitchen Environments
• Differences in Cooking Styles between Italy and Spain
• Importance of Training and Developing Kitchen Staff
You can follow chef Carmine on HERE
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we're gonna get serious. Above all, lessons for life. You're listening to the Chef JKP podcast and this is what you can expect on today's show.
Generally, every Sunday was a family day. Family day has been 20 -30 people at home. They started to bake the sourdough, the bread, the day before,
they start to make the dough to bake in the morning time at 5, 6 o 'clock because on the back of my garden I have a big wood oven, which is, you can cook everything there.
And then we start with the ciacuteri. So what time was the family lunch sort of set? What time would everybody sit down? Two o 'clock? Three? Two o 'clock?
'clock, two? - Okay. - Until eight to nine in the evening. - Wow. - When they bring trainer in the kitchen, they always give you the worst chop. - Of course. - All the way, but this is how we do it.
So I start to clean the plate, I start to clean the room where they set up meat, fish, vegetable. But if they see on you, you can do it, you never give up,
they bring you in the family. - Okay. - Okay. - So, and then I was lucky because he's one chef from Florence, I can't forget. One day he said to me, what you will say if I say to you,
don't finish the shift now, stay with me in dinner service. I just say, buy for me one packet of cigarettes I will do it. (laughing) - That was a payment.
- I was in one Michelin restaurant in Naples and I was on the main section. (upbeat music) And then I have three main to go out. One fish, one lamb, and one beef fillet, with side dish. And I prepared everything,
but I forgot to cook the beef fillet. And this one was super VIP table. And then everything going out at the, the mat on the floor,
before it was the mat, no general manager, no restaurant, the mat on the floor. - Main duty, yes. - They say, "Chef, he's missed the beef fillet." Automatically. Automatically, the chef looked me without ask. He took a little and just straight to my head.
Three point here. I just say, "Are you crazy? What are you doing?" The guest on this week's show has worked for some of the best and most famous chefs in the world.
These names include Kikeda Costa and Simon Rogan. We talk about his native city of Naples, types of pizza. pizza, as well as the true meaning of aperitivo. His restaurant,
by the way, has just received a coveted one chef's toke in the Go and Milo guide. He is the head chef at social, walled off a story of the palm, Jumeirah in Dubai.
On the podcast this week, I talk to the incredibly charismatic Kamin Faravolo. We discuss his formative years cooking alongside his grandmother. who by the sounds of it could out cook most chefs these days,
as well as his time as a young 15 year old apprentice in Rome. Also we talk about the decision to take a step or two down in your career to learn and to get ahead in the long run.
Karmine has traveled extensively and he has some truly remarkable insights especially for any sous chefs who are listening. A great conversation with plenty of laughs along the way and a lot of interesting moving parts,
so get comfortable and enjoy. Listen out for a story involving broken plates. Time to rock and roll. Just before we begin, here is a small message from this week's guest.
Hi, good afternoon. My name is Scarimine. I am the Chef of Social, World of Story, a palm tree mayor. Today I'm here with Chef James to talking about social, my life, to know each other, to socialize and please,
if you like the pod, podcast, make sure you like, share and subscribe. Thank you. Ciao. Welcome back to the Chef JKP podcast. And on the show today,
I'm extremely excited to have the chef de cuisine from social located right here in Dubai at Waldo Fasoria, the Palm Jumeirah. We have chef Kamin Faravolo.
Kamin, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. James, to me here. It's an honor for me. And I hate talking about these podcasts. I just say maybe one day I will be there and now the day is coming.
And then I'm so happy to see you as in person. - Thank you so much. So first things first, can you tell me your first or favorite ever childhood food memory?
- Sure. You know, I come from Napoli. southern part of Italy. So street food is one of the tradition of our roots, our culture. So pizza for sure I never can forget.
The beef for pet of my grandmother. So I have a lot of food, especially Sunday laparmigian, which is of my signature dish, at Soja, which is a food for me,
which is I never can forget. But so tell me about those two. types of food the street food the family days Let's go into a little bit of the details for that. Sure. So I grown with my grandmother So she's the the chef of my life.
That's why I am a chef and with there I start to see How she's cook how she's prepped because she used to prep for thousand five hundred three hundred two hundred people with the you know when you are at house with all the uh handy granola grandmother,
which is my uncle, they cook all together by the traditional way. Also before, they used to make also the tomato when it was on the field.
They do a lot of tomato and then they cook on the back of my garden and they stay two -three days there to cook and survive all the winter time. And then I come with that tradition.
That's why for me, traditional food. It's wonderful. one of the important things to bring to my client on the table. Of course, with the new technique, innovation type, but I never can forgot where I come from.
- So when you were growing up, how involved were you in watching the preparation being involved? So in terms of,
I was with my grandmother. - Yes. - So generally, every Sunday was a fun day. day. Family day has been 20 -30 people at home. They start to bake the sourdough,
the bread, the day before they start to make the dough to bake in the morning time at 5 -6 o 'clock because on the back of my garden I have a big wood oven which is you can cook everything there.
Okay. And then we start with the chakuttari. So what time was the family lunch sort of set? What time would everybody sit down? - Around two o 'clock. - Three? - Two o 'clock. - Okay.
- Until eight to nine in the evening. - Wow. So that's a lot of prep. - Yeah, but the funny thing is my grandmother don't want no one to close to her. So just to me,
to help her and then to make gnocchi, to make aneloni, lasagna, beef polpeta, baked chicken in the oven. So she... she was really like the executive chef. - Yes, she was,
she said the best chef don't have the recipe. The recipe is the tom. - Nice, wow. - It was so funny for me. - Wow, so would you try and sort of learn a few recipes from her or would she like,
bat the hand if you're trying to taste? - She said that she have the own way. - Nowadays I am a chef, which is with all of us. some standards, I do. I can see how she can make the food so good without any white line,
but just with the passion of what she has in his hand. - Wow. - And then I say, "That's really amazing, this is cool." - So I'm just trying to think, like also like 20 people,
then 30 people, I mean, it's a lot of-- - It's a lot of-- manual labor, a lot of love. And she was alone. Sometimes here, when we were able to do 20, 30 people,
even Bangladeshi look like her. And then I remember the day before she's alone with me. Sometimes I try to help her. I want to buy a machine.
She said, "No, no, my hand is still good." How dare you? So then, types of food when you were a teenager. tell me about those street foods because I'm really interested to know because I know there are so many incredible street foods.
But for you, specifically in Napoli, what did you have? So specifically in Napoli, we have pizza, but we have two, three kinds of pizza. We have the normal pizza, which is all the world knows.
And then we have pizza fritta, which is the same dough, but it's flip and filled with tomato mozzarella. mozzarella, pork, ham, mushroom, and fry.
Oh wow. Then it's like half moon. Okay. This one is pizza fritta. And then we have a pizza portafoglio, which is pizza filled in wallet, like wallet. They make it,
flip it, and close as a portafoglio. This one is another street food. Wow. And then we have quepo fritto, which is our frittomisto. un mix di freddo,
un mix di carne con arancini, croquet. In Naples realizzano tutto, hanno molti fantasini, il modo in cui produndono freddo e il modo in cui produndono freddo,
perché qualcosa è successo. O come abbiamo il Vesuvio, e poi produciamo la pizza nel stile di Vesuvio, chiamando la pizza Vesuviana. E no,
adesso... are so crazy to building idea in terms of food. - It's very creative, right? - Very inventive. - And then we have sandwich panino, which is, now it's one of the best things like quick food for us.
But also the pizza is a food not just to eat like morning. We can eat every, also the day after for breakfast. - Because also, I think that one of the key key things about specifically Italy is that all of the produce that you have tastes incredible.
Everything, as you said, the tomato, the mozzarella, the surroundings, the stories, you know? But also, I love the fact, because I'm a pizza head, yeah? I like,
I'm crazy about pizza. But I've never tasted pizza fritta, for example. like deep fried pizza. That sounds amazing. Also, the folded one, you know?
But also, I love all the breads, the paninis, the olive oils, everything. So it's just amazing. And always you were going out with your friends and it was all times of the day,
the night, the street food. We can go everywhere because we have so many kinds of pizza. We have also pizza alforno, which is baked pizza, almost room. style, which is we have aperitivo. We have two kinds of aperitivo.
- Right, aperitivo before lunchtime. - Yeah, aperitivo before dinner time. So just tell me for those people who don't know, what is aperitivo? - So aperitivo is meet someone,
such a light, because for us, food is not just eat. Food is sharing story, have a funny, have a fun time. So remember story. So it's something. which is bringing people together.
And generally, weekend, we have this aperitivo, which is part of Italy. They have every day, like north, like Milano, Bologna, they have every day around six o 'clock.
They have aperitivo. They finish to work in the office, drink and go home. Inside of Italy, we are a little bit different. So we have aperitivo every time. Nice.
Nice. So so the first one, what sort of time? In 12 o 'clock, OK, after breakfast, because also for us, breakfast is normal. Cornetto, cappuccino, coffee or some juice.
We have this breakfast after two, three hours. We have a peritivo. OK. And maybe after one hour, one hour and a half, we go to eat at home. And then maybe sometimes we will stay as neck during the day. Yeah.
Then we have another peritivo before to go home or before to go out with friends. A peritivo is kind of. you can have charcuterie and cheese board, olives, focaccia. So it's a small bite.
Okay, nice. Okay, okay. To enjoy with a glass of wine or a nice cocktail like, I don't know, Bellini, Negroni, spritz, which is this one is the icon of the aperitivo.
Yes, spritz. Okay, so then did you automatically want to become a chef? chef from an early age, or did you have a different path in education?
- So, I grown, doesn't look like as a football player. But for some reason, I just whooped because I saw my grandmother cook every day. And then I feel,
no, something inside to me said, "This one is interesting." So sometimes I avoid to go to the school to cook with there for lunchtime. It was also normal lunchtime. time for my grandmother was 10 people.
So that's why, and then sometimes when I went to the school, I went out, I have a call with my grandmother, I come with four, five more of my friends, please prepare some aperitif for us. So she's really deep on cooking.
So she can prepare something in terms, she say, and sometimes my friends say, "Is your only good, you can have my other cook." And then she, that's why I...
become my chef, thanks to her. - So then when did you first step into college? - So, first step I did, I was out of Naples at 14 years old because my college was in Rome.
- Oh wow. - In Amatrice, a little bit far away from Rome. And this one is three years plus two, but it's a school where you can have floor side,
which is, you will do six months of floor, six months of floor. kitchen, and the second near Sjunger shoes, which one you like. Okay. Then I straight shoes the kitchen side,
culinary department, and but the only way there is was I was out of the region, because this one was in Lazio, then I come from Campania. So I have to pass a test,
because the room for them is just was for 100 people outside of the region. Oh, wow. It's not was a big space. So we have to pass. a test. And then I passed a test with four pet of my grandmother.
- Amazing, amazing. - And then I spent these three years there, it's amazing, amazing school, which is they already teach you how will be the word of,
they really kitchen around the globe. - Okay. - Because they give me, first things they teach ethic, how to be, how to be,
straight, like I never can forgot. If you don't set up the bed when you awake and you you are not able to do the breakfast because at seven o 'clock was the alarm like military.
You wake up, you do your thing seven thirty down for breakfast but at seven thirty two already pass people to see if your bed was clean and set up your room. If not,
this will peel the bread. - So straight away, like a station in a kitchen, your bed had to be on plus, right? Okay, so then tell me about that education,
that specific part of college. Did you also have to work in real restaurant kitchens? Or did you have to do something else? - No, because this school is six months before you go to the school,
at three months they send you in a stage. The stage, of course, was in Lazio. - Okay. then already at 14, 15 years old I was in the five luxury star hotel in Capital in Rome, so where they really teach you what is the real job,
where they don't give you discount. So at the age of 15, just to put it into context, I mean 15 is very young to be in Rome away from home and then you're in a five -star luxury hotel.
Did the chefs chefs sort of give you special treatment because you were 15 or they had no mercy? Generally, when they bring trainer in the kitchen, they always give you the worst job.
Of course. All the way. But this is how we do it. Yes. I start to clean the plate, I start to clean the room where they set up meat, fish, vegetable. But if they see on you,
you can do it, you never give up, they bring you in the family. Okay. Okay. So, and then I was lucky because he's one chef from Florence. I can't forget.
One day he said to me, what you will say if I say to you, don't finish the shift now. Stay with me in dinner service. I just say, buy for me one packet of cigarettes I will do.
That was a payment. And yeah, because they don't pay. Of course. To all these years they don't give up. you nothing. So I have to survive. How to survive, maybe sometimes you do some extra and then they pay you.
But my first extra was 20 euro. - Very nice. That's a lot. - Yeah, it was so nice. - So how was your first sort of service with this guy?
You know, did you learn a lot straight away? - Straight away, because sometimes everyone felt. - Yeah, of course. course. - You have to learn. To be perfection is just,
you can reach when you felt. And then, when I started the first service, I didn't know nothing, because I just was around preparation, setup, recipe, because also the position you will have it when you are a training or a commie,
for me, they give you all the recipe of the restaurant. Because this one is at the store, it's at 3. for every kitchen you will go. And then I know everything about the recipe,
but I don't know nothing about the operation. And then this one was, what's going on here? It looked like I was in the world and then without arms, and then you were able to fight,
but it was so cool. It was so cool. So you did your three years, yes. And then I have to choose plus two to be get a high diploma or normal diploma.
- Okay. - But the power to learn to stay in the kitchen was a lot and then I don't choose to go for high diploma, I just have my diploma and then I start to work straight in the restaurant.
And then that's why I just choose three years and then I do some stage from my personal career and then I do some... some hours,
but yeah. - Because look, I think it's also amazing. What a journey, also the tender age of 15. As you said, it's one thing being a preparation commie or a preparation apprentice to then go into a five -star luxury kitchen and do,
you know, be in the services. So you must have been a changed man by the time you came out of college, you know? This was a... completely different word. They give you just the the seasoning to be in the kitchen,
but they don't give you the full recipe. Come on, I just want to ask you a specific question about your time when you were learning in college. Now, 15,
20 years ago, 30 years ago, kitchens were all over, I can only say about Europe, Australia not so much kitchens were very aggressive. places. Super aggressive places.
So when you were training as a trainee, would you say that the attitudes of the chefs were aggressive or they wanted to really bring out the best of you? - So, depending which way you see.
For people, they're sensible. The chef life is not sensible life. You have to be strong. And when I saw... how they treat their people,
I just said, "Are you serious?" Because most of them, sometimes it's also people, they come in the morning shift, after two, three hours, they left. Where are you? Where is he in Tata?
And then they said, "No, we left because the chef treated him bad." Okay. And then their people can realize if this job is for them or not. Because at the end of each job I did, each car,
each stage, I did. with any chef, sometimes I hate, sometimes not. Until you become a cross of the line, which is you are a chef,
you can understand so many things in the past you have in your life. And sometimes I remember, this one was the funny story, I was in one Michelin restaurant in Naples and I was on the main section and then I have three men to go out.
One fish, one lamb. and one beef fillet, with side dish. And I prepared everything, but I forgot to cook the beef fillet. And this one was super VIP table.
And then everything going out at the, they met on the floor, before they met, no general manager, no restaurant, they met on the floor. They say, "Chef, he's missed the beef fillet." Automatically,
the chef looked me, without asking. He took a lead. and just straight to my head, three points here. I just say, "Are you crazy? What are you doing?" He said,
"You never imagine the issue you create me now on the table." Because the beef fillet was also well done. They were to make more or less 15, 20 minutes a day. And then two people eat,
one people not, for a Michelin star restaurant, which is of the standards to follow. Before, I didn't understand all these things, because I didn't know what I was doing. was in other parts of the line. Now, at days, I can understand.
Also, the way he treats me, maybe is in a bad way, but he teaches me how focused we have to stay during the series. Wow. These are the biggest because,
yes, I mean, there are different ways to learn lessons, of course. But of course, day by day, one of the experience I was in London, in London, where I always think,
who should I be learning? London more than two years?" You can work everywhere in the world. Well, that's what I want to ask is because, you know, you've worked with some of the best chefs in the world. Kiketa Costa,
Heinz Beck, Antonio Molino, Simon Rogan, you know, and these are the most some of the most incredible, phenomenal Michelin starred chefs in the world on the planet.
Well, how was your experience? working with such big names? - So, in London, because almost, with Tic Tacos was a stage in Spain,
which is there I can see the difference between Italy and in Spain, Italy very close to the tradition. So, Spain is very close to the, no, not very close, they are innovative chefs,
molecular cuisine. - Yes. - I saw how they treat the food, but we, without lost their roots as well. But with new technique of, which is now we use in the kitchen.
But the difference was this kitchen looked like a room, medical room. Okay. Everyone with tongue, everyone with perfect medical.
This one here, this one here. For me, this one is another word also at, but the, I learned the standard. There,
I learned really like medium rare, medium rare. You can fit. So that professional where everyone follow, everyone see. And then open mind,
open discussion. Also a normal kitchen porter can have a word to say chef I don't like. And then the chef say why? Wow, so that's interesting. - And then these things,
I feel it inside because it's not just, they also was aggressive but different way to be aggressive, like elegant aggressive. - Sure. - But the most aggressive kitchen I saw in my life was London. - London was something crazy because I reached London without no one word in English.
- Oh my God. - With $500 euro in my pocket to work with the Donino Mellino Quattro Bassida restaurant in my family. first three. Amazing experience. Fresh food.
We bring something ten years ago in London, which is not so many restaurant, Italian restaurant, was there, was the most traditional one, as we already know around the world, the brand. But him bring the Amalfi cost in London.
Was really great experience, but I went in London not just for Coco, but to learn English. But to learn English. But after one year and a half, two years, I didn't know nothing in English because the kitchen was all from Napoli.
- Oh, wow. (laughing) So you had your friends from home. - Exactly, see, sometimes I would like to go out from the loop to socialize with other people,
but I feel always outside of the circle because maybe just good morning and how are you? This one was my word. And then what's happening? I was sous -chef.
I start with chef the party position with Quattropass and then I become a sous -chef and then I become his chef to go around to work with him. And then at one point I say, "No,
I have to change." And then the sommelier of Quattropass, he went to work for Simon Roben. We are really, don't tell me how we communicate each other. He was super English and then I was super Neapolitan.
and then sometimes Google translate, hands, hands talking. - Nice. - But it was long. - But you still communicated, right? - Yeah, we really understand each other. Everyone was, Joe come here,
say, "How do you talk with him when you go out for a beer?" Just say, "Look, I don't know, but we understand everything." And then he helped me. - Okay. - It was Simon Rocker looking for a Acomi,
a Demi chef, but I already was a chef. Surviving London with Acomi, - I was a chef. - I was a chef. - I was a chef. - I was a chef. (upbeat music) And when you're already in a chef position, you have a different budget. And then you can have a chance to have your apartment,
your privacy, your thing. When you become again a commie because I can choose chef de varte because I didn't know enough in English. I was commie. And then I say I will do a commie. And then I choose to be commie with 50 % of the salary less.
Oh, and then London as well is expensive and London one room. room would be 800, 900 pounds. And then I used to pay 750 pounds,
the room or the master room. Oyster cart. Oyster cart. And then the salary of Simon Rogan of Comibus 1200. So I have to survive in London with 300,
400 pounds. Don't tell me how I did, but I did. Because one thing we have in Napoli, we say the Napolitans guys, never,
never we die to be without food. So always you find a way how to be. And then after four months, this also was a funny experience.
They told me, "Bring me a flower." I bring a flower, but it was a flower to make the dough. And then it was the flower. for the decoration. And then because so many accent,
I didn't know. Of course, of course. And then I see so many things like really London kitchen, which is. And this was this was in Claridge's? Yes, at Ferro. And then the only word I hear,
yes, chef, sorry, chef. Yes, chef, sorry, chef. But it was funny. Because the year that I was some hour shifting. is in, say, seven o 'clock in the morning, two o 'clock in the night,
no stewarding, you have to clean, and you have to do... - What do you mean, no stewarding? - No stewarding. - What you cooked with? - You cooked. - You had to wash yourself?
- Fifty percent of the equipment, you had to wash yourself. And then at three o 'clock, the first day I was there, three o 'clock, I just hear one, because each section I have a chef.
We were around 30 people in the kitchen, 32 people, 110 cuvers per day lunch and 110 cuvers per din. Two Michelin stars chef was insane. And then the first thing was,
stop working, clean down. I just said, what's going on here? We have to go. I don't know, because also I didn't, then I saw everyone stop working. And then everyone, this was like a team of cleaners.
Everyone. everyone with the bucket, so everyone washed everything because they washed two times a day in the kitchen. One at three o 'clock, around three -thirty, one at twelve o 'clock. When you wash,
the chef are more hurry with you, so they give more bamboo to you when you have to wash. They don't care. They say, "Run, run, run, run with rush, MF rush." Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Of course. Of course. Yes, of course. course. But how long were you there with Simon Rogan? Almost one year, but the fun thing is I was the first one in Simon Rogan. After six months, he promoted me as a demi -chef,
a chef of the party. Because you have so many stages to do. Because for Simon Rogan, each position, you have to stay minimum two years. Yes. I was something... He must have saw something in you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone there, the close chef today, they say, you went plaited. you look like Samuel Rogan." I just say, "Thank you." Because they say, "You don't know to speak with us, "but you know very well how is the job is." Because also for me,
do the first service in English, is something, it's completely different way to the Italian style. It's different kitchen, they don't have pasta, they have a cool hot,
so it's completely different section also. Wow. have this next section, which is the guest when arrived, they have five, six bites to have aperitivo before to have the starter or the testing menu,
because three days a week we have a la carte plus testing menu, and four days a week from Thursday to Sunday, we have only testing menu, three testing menu. And it was a very famous restaurant when when Simon took over.
Yeah, very, because I think it was the first restaurant after Gordon Ramsey had shut to the Gordon Ramsey Claridge is then then Simon Rogan came in. Yeah. So, uh, what an experience for you.
This was, there I completely changed my mind. And the, the, the big question is, did you learn English? But with my napolitan accent. That's okay.
But at least, you know, yeah, at least yes. But I've, I survived in London almost four years and a half. Wow. Okay. It's long. But there teach me so many. I have to say. thanks to London where I am now.
Because that's a lot. Your hospitality, the luxury of hospitality is so high there. So high. But working with all of these incredible chefs, for you, what would you say was the toughest part?
Was it the hours? Was it the mental game? What was it? No, it's the tough part. He's a place in the city as London, which he's at.
city's work 24 hours, never stopped. So the tough thing is to separate the private life to working life, because if you're thinking more than the private life to be focused in the work life,
London is like a whip. If you can serve, serve. If not, you go down and never you. I saw so many chefs, so many close friends, which is, they failed. because to take in more the private life.
Also the type was tough there, but which is, I think each job have a tough day and a beautiful day. The end is how you absorb and then how you react.
So sometimes it was really tough day for me. I went home and cry. I was young, I was alone because I was alone around 18 years old. 19 years old. So I left my city at 15 years old,
now I am 32, 17 years and never coming back. So I came back to visit my family of course, but I feel more a tourist in my city and then I feel more like a resident in each part I went,
like London is my second home. Yes, yes, I can imagine. But then also at the same time, what's interesting is that you have travelled And I feel more like a resident in each part of London. And I feel more like a resident in each part of London. you know, China, Sydney,
seashells. What sort of made you travel to go to all these different continents? So I like travel. I want to be travel. And then I bring together travel and work.
China was an amazing experience, but always I work for an Italian restaurant. Sometimes I want to swap to find some some marination, some interesting way to cook like in China.
I learn a lot how they treat the ingredients and the freshness of the ingredients. So the marination was something insane. And then I have a likeness to my one chef, which is a very,
very professional chef. He's from Puglia, Michele, which is he giving me a chance to to be in China with another brand and also their ice cream.
completely different way to thinking, way to adapt your kitchen with the client. Because sometimes is everywhere I went, you had to adapt your Italian cuisine without lost the roots to bring the traditional on the table and to make happy the guests.
- Did you have Chinese chefs cooking Italian food? - Yes, yes. - So how was that a huge challenge? challenge for you? - To be honest, everywhere is a challenge where I went outside of Italy. But the way you treat them,
the way you teach them, you can have the result, the end of on the plate. So they are an amazing chef, they are amazing person, but they have different roots.
Like my kitchen now, I have some Italian, but I have Nepalese, Turkish, Sri Lanka. Lanka, Indonesia, so Philippine.
And then they have to learn from you, which is they don't have the roots. Of course, if I go to work for a Philippine chef, for Sri Lankan chef, I will felt for sure, because this one is not my cuisine.
They don't know our food, they don't know our tomato sauce. For them, one of the best things are spices, the spices, which is we don't have in our country. For us, normal tomato sauce is made by,
maybe some people make it with onion and oil. I used to make it with garlic and oil. Maybe for them, they wouldn't see, see, see, no, no, see, no, no, no. Parsley, Cina,
and also sometimes Cina monisoid or coriander, because they have another culture. - Right. - Of, to the end. But nowadays, I'm super happy of my team because also if I'm off,
off I can sleep well because I am my sushi as well from Italy Which is he support me? We know each other from five six years, which is sushi is the worst position I was so chef is the word you take like bad cop good cop You know you had to choose who have to be who has to be the bad cop was to be the good cop So he has to be the good cop for them.
You know when I give bamboo sometimes I have this touch English stuff like Gordon Ramsey, but to reach this step, to be with that in this touch,
they really have to love you because if you cross the limit, they don't grow with this strategy. So that's why I'm very, very happy of my team. They support me every day.
The worst things is they have to learn you, how you are, because it's like a relation. I give them everything. And then I said,
I don't care if you're outside, you will say I'm a chef. But in the kitchen, you have to follow me. Of course, this is my kitchen. You have open space, you have open mind.
Do what you want, freedom. But six, 30, 10, 30, I don't want to hear enough. Just service time. They swoop in that, they fight each other. You know, the chef won't like that. Who you are to-- change.
And then I like when I see this. No, no fighting. I can go and fight, but this power to deliver the best food to the guests. - Attention chefs, restaurateurs, and business owners.
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Now back to the episode. So then, as you said, as you mentioned, you travel extensively, you love to travel, you bring your travels with you to the kitchen.
So tell me now about social, what you do in that restaurant, because I'm really interested to know how you're putting your roots and your travel in the food shoe.
So social now is a normic, traditional Italian cuisine. but in a new key, innovative, they were just too late. Because if you come to social,
you will find beef polpetta with a lot of natto, parmigiana, lingui nenerano, which is one of my signature. You will find crudo mare, which is very famous in Italy,
in southern of Italy, which is like raw food, the crowns, langoustine, oyster, caviar. Sounds amazing. We calculate with with big ball. Right. So you will find really traditional plate,
but the way to serve is the way where I learn all around this experience. Example, we tell a lot or not with normal boiled egg. I give you just an example.
They boil the egg, they cut the bottom with a lot or not. No, I just take the egg, make a foam, throw it in and grate on top. At this one, when you eat, you can remember, but really people know what this is.
the little tonado, it can be the Parmigiana, or it can be everything. They can answer, yes, this one is Italian cuisine. But in a funny way to serve, because also we are in a five -star luxury, I can serve really Trattoria style.
I cook as a Trattoria flavor, but serve as a luxury style. - So what you're saying is that you've really elevated the traditional plate. So tell me if I'm going through the first time walking in Trattoria.
this restaurant. First of all, how many covers is the restaurant? So more or less, you can do 67, which is not that big restaurant. We have a nice terrace outside. We have a nice cave inside, cave of wine.
We have table, table are very set up, which is people can hear what is the next table can say. So it's a very nice restaurant and you can feel straight the atmosphere,
how we treat the staff, how the staff treat the guests, like, "Yes, you are in a five -star luxury hotel, but you feel as your own." Okay. You have to feel comfortable. The best things for me when the guests go somewhere,
you have to feel comfortable. Because if you feel like, "I'm in the restaurant, they treat me like I never will come back." Of course. So they broke and straight the ice in an elegant way, but also in a funny way,
because I am always in touch. touch with guests, I go outside, I smile with them, make some funny stories, they want to know. The guests are like that, you have to take care of the guests,
and the best goal, what I see, the guest is returned back, especially for outsiders, because we work for in -house guests, the outsider guests. When I see outsider guests,
they come from Abu Dhabi, they come from Sharjah, this one is very nice. Aspega, so because the competition is high, you are in Dubai, the competition is so high. But at the same way is so high,
some of the restaurants for this become in second life, and you pay a lot, extremely a lot. And sometimes the quality is very low. It's very low because Dubai is Dubai.
But some restaurants, which is I really love some restaurants in Dubai, I went there, so some they treat you as a chef, or is the chef is there or not? Sometimes I book with another name,
because I don't want to be carboned when I'm outside of the restaurant, because my day off, I want to cheat. I don't want to be a chef, and also an outside chef, no, I'm carboned,
because I want to have also my private life. So I want to go back to the food now. So when you're in that restaurant, when you're come up with the menu, do you have,
so is it all at a cart or do you have tasting menu with some promotion as well? Actually, Monday we go out with a new menu because we changed the menu three, four times per year in terms of the season to follow the Italian season.
And right now we change Monday, which is I introduce more winter part, which is I love it. And of course we have a testing menu, which is is,
we offer to the guests five or seven courses, comparing with wine. We have some promotion on 26 or 27. We have one promotion, which is very funny. I always did in each restaurant,
I've been working, I propose, and the company supports me. It's Masquerade, which is guests will come. They will have a funny time, but sometimes I will propose a food,
which is 10 courses, but split 3 -3 -3. plus dessert, plus some vegetables, by sharing on the table. And then this one will be a nice promotion as well. And no,
we do great things. Dubai you have always to be, you would never ever lose to ever creativity. But what are your sort of aspirations for the restaurant?
What do you want to achieve personally with that restaurant? Because as you said, you're in a five -star luxury setting, you have a fantastic company behind you but you as the chef are the driving force between you know between this what would you like to achieve?
So what I would like to achieve? Of course I want to be one of the best Italian restaurant in Dubai which is I want to be a maps for the people say Italian, Carmine, social because sometimes the chef made the name of the restaurant they say don't go to the restaurant let's go to Carmine.
True and then no - Are you sure? - This one is why, because the way you treat them. I have one, I have a couple of repeator guests. They come almost every week, every 10 days. They automatically have my number.
Chef, please, two table of 10, table of two, table of four, because also they bring family. So for me, they are not guests, they are part of social family. So at this one,
I want that she is like best one of them. the best Italian restaurants to be a point of map for an Italian restaurant, plus the guests have to feel like they are home.
As you know, in Dubai, you have also this trend to follow the dress code, which is normal, I can understand. But it doesn't mean if someone don't have a good dress code,
they are not able to eat a plate of pasta. There are so many policies for the kids. It's fine. I can understand. understand. But sometimes we have to feeling, if you are a family,
if you want to go eat for a restaurant and then I have a kids, but I like this restaurant, I am not able to go. - And then everybody misses out. - But I can understand each, we say each home,
each room. - True, true. - But depend how you see the business. Because then the restaurant, as much you, passion and love you put inside, but it's a business. - But look, you touched upon something which is,
very important, is that Dubai, as a dining destination now, is on the global map with the likes of Tokyo, Paris, New York.
Yes, it's true. How do you see the future of dining within this region? So I see so many start from other chefs like sustainability, zero waste,
which is we have some plate which is our sustainability, some zero waste. as well. My Parmigiana is completely sustainability at zero waste. So 75 -80 % of the product are local reserves.
Of course, tomato, things which is, I'm very close to my land, I will bring from Italy, like San Marzano, you know, some tomato which is, I need it for Italian cuisine. Of course. I need it.
But how I can see Dubai? Dubai is a city which is already 10 years in advance almost of Dubai. the normal world. And I went,
I was in Dubai 10 years ago because Quattropasi was opened also in Dubai. Now I was in five before with Beeseroy. Yes. Yes. Yes. So already I was there like a pre -opening stuff.
How I can see Dubai 10 years ago in Dubai now? Before it was difficult to find a tomato. You can find a tomato. Tomatoes on there. you can find the real product. Now at this,
you can find everything, everything. And then sometimes some suppliers say to me, chef, why you want exactly this ingredient, which is in Dubai, I thought. Like now I have pepperoni cruzco.
It's one of the pepperoni, it's sweet chili and note. - Oh, beautiful. - It's crunchy. And then not everyone use that kind of, I don't want to say secret ingredient.
but traditional luxury ingredients from people who used to work in the land, because then we come from here. And then the biasing in 10 years, never we stop,
never grow food, there will be always one more stop, but at one point we have to, I think we have to just have one one question in us.
Suntem bine pentru a fost bine.
a trend. But also a normal spaghetti with tomato. Parmesan and basil. This one can be also lucky. They depend on how you treat the ingredients, which ingredient you buy. So that's why this one is the only question.
But of course, sustainably, we have to support. We have completely support to not zero waste, because most of the ways that I don't do too much waste. At the end of the month, we have some criteria to follow.
And then I can say at the end of the month, I don't go up to two. to three percent of waste but really waste like some things where you can of course really can do it but I use seeds I use skin I do powder I so whatever you can do yeah the other thing I wanted to ask you is do you find any particular challenges now when you're training younger chefs they think they are already chef so what does that mean?
Explain to me. So the television, which is all this program of chef, which is amazing, but some people, they thinking they go to the school,
they're already ready to for the world. No, it's not like that. They don't know nothing. And before they come in the kitchen, the first things they say to you, how much you will pay. When I was in the kitchen,
I had to pay them because they they teach me a job, they teach me a future. Thanks God what we are now. Now you have to deal with so many questions without knowing if these people are good or not.
Like we have so many trials but thanks God I don't have a big turnover in the kitchen. So most of this I'm since two years in social and then I change maybe two stuff but I change because they want to grow,
they want to be in the next step. step. I saw where they went and then I say, you have to go. You don't make sense you stay with me. You have to go. As I do my experience, also the staff have to do. After two years, one team is with me.
Doesn't make sense to stay. They have to grow. They have to discover it themselves, what they want to do. Because I stay with all this chef. But then, thanks to this chef, I have the technique,
but I have my philosophy of kitchen. What they have to describe. I'm not the chef to say, you go. go, no, you are not, no, no, you have to go." True, but at the same time, as you said, you know, you did three years extensive training,
and when you were qualified, you then became, you were still apprentice, a commie, you know? Always, I'm like, now, also, I try to promote them,
because as much they, you have to give them back something, which is not just food, or just to teach something to them, but you have to give... some medals to them. Sometimes I give a promotion or sometimes every year more or less I give a promotion.
We do our thanks to our chefs, to our executive chef, he make training for them, training for committee, training for chef, the party training for them, development things,
because we are not just chef to cook, also manager to, you are icon for them. Of course, one day they, will be you and then if they go in another kitchen they will say I was with chef Carmen They can be a free marketing for me Like say you can go there to eat there because the food is very good But if you treat someone bad how you can treat someone bad of your family You can treat bad but the way you treat
bad they have to understand you do for them future Correct. No, because I'm one in time. I wake up. I go to kitchen. I want to give shit shit to it. No, I'm not great. - No, but also you have standards to follow,
you have guests coming in. - And then the guests are very demanding. - Expectations. - Expectations are high, especially when you go into five -star luxury, already you say, "I've been going to five -star luxury." The guest is prepared,
already set up. - It's a big name. - And then when you go in social, which is a elegant restaurant, a little bit casual dining, but it's elegant, then it's elegant. So guests have a high expectation. They wouldn't eat good food.
They want to remember you. So then it's not just you give them an experience. They have to remember you. If they don't remember you, then you fail. Correct. Wow.
So look, come on. Now we come to part of the podcast, which is the Quick Fire Questions. So hope you're ready for this.
First things first. Pizza or pasta? - Both. - Hello,
it's both. I can stay with that one week without pizza or pasta. I can't. - Next one. Fish and chips or walk fried rice?
- Fish and chips. - I love it. - Correct answer, very good. - Sweet or salty? salty? - Sour. - I like sweet. - Sour? - Sweet or salty? - Sweet or salty?
- I like my sweet man. - Okay, sweet, very good. - What would be... You had one more day on this planet. What would be your last meal?
- My last meal? - Yes. - So a very hard quest. - My last meal? my last meal. I'll get okay. I'll give you two to know my last meal This will be with my grandmother.
I don't get what with what she will prepare But I want to my grandmother because whatever he will she will prepare for me. I will be super I can die done agreed Now who would you say are your top three culinary heroes?
my top three yes yes. - Dubai or in the-- - In the world, and they don't need to be chefs. - So, I really like Legavrosh,
in London, because he's not just a chef or he's a businessman, he's a business hacker, so I have opportunity to know him,
and he make 'em do it. to London, I went to it there, and then it was something outside of a bianormal chef. Something is institutional,
something is like a-- - Michel Rue, Jr., man, he's a legend, and it's closing the Gavros. - It's closing, but now I thought they'd make something for like school.
- Yes, correct, yes. This one is one of my-- can't Forgot. Uh -huh. Then Matt, chef Matt in Sepia in Sydney. Also, you have a completely Something outside of Of my agency,
you know, I'm believe and Another one is one lady, which is I really follow her since long time. It's Clara Smith That is me. It's on core three -star Michelin chef And I saw...
She's in Australia and in London. I think something up will be here. I don't know because I saw someone... Let's hope so. And you know why? I saw how she changed the English food.
And it sometimes looked like my traditional Italian food, like a normal potato she prepared, the baked potato, London meat, but she completed the... does something amazing.
- And artistic. - So nice, she, but I really have, like Simon Rogan also for me is a star. Antonio Melino is a star. So I have really a lot.
- But the number number one is grandmother. - The number number. - Of course. - She's no one. - Exactly, exactly. - No one. So at the moment for you, what would you say are your top three cuisines that you love to eat?
Japanese, I love it. Greek, I love it. Arabic, here I found something Arabic which is I have to go to war.
Every ten days I have to go to therapy. I think it's two things which is irrelevant. The rules, something amazing. amazing, traditional food.
Let's call it pure food, but rich in the flavor. - Yeah. - Mutabal, the shawarma. - That's my favorite, by the way, mutabal. A lot of the smoked egg plants,
the tahini, the best. - Mutabal is very close to our country also in Sicily, this Baba Ganoush. - Ah, okay. - Cousins. - Yeah, so from all of your experience in the kitchen,
kitchens, what would you say was your funniest ever kitchen incident that either happened to you or that you witnessed? So I have a lot,
but one one was the leader of course. But another one was one chef. We work with one chef, which is he hates the liar.
When you like to win, it completely changed me. okay he completely change mood and one guy he take two plates from the pass odd pass he take two plates he broken one and he say no I'm not but I saw him and the chef as well he saw him say no chef I didn't broken and the chef start to shouting only you broke no chef I didn't know until he start to slap him and then at one point I say chef stop because the
head the head was completely red, because he continued to say, "No, I can't. No, I can't." I just said to him, "Man, I saw you, you broke it." Just say, "Yes, say,
'Pardon,' say, 'Excuse me, chef,'" because one plate costs a lot. Expensive, yeah? When you buy a good chinaware, it's one plate. We're talking about 200,
300, and then say, "Just sorry, chef." Just say, "Because he's..." he's Everyone can make and he's no lie lie and then I saw him slaves, but for I Didn't say two three minutes,
but for one minute was up. He say no boom one's like we say no boom another slag And he's on it was very funny things to say accident another accident was in one when we go ahead to clean the the room of vegetable room one guys was there to clean everything and one guys is coming with the fish stock no fish stock veggie stock okay and then it was with big pot put in the trolley the trolley to pass a little bit
the bum yes then we clean all the was a deep cleaning day Sunday everything was perfect and then we go inside boom all the veggie stock 20 liter 30 liter in the - In the working chiller.
- In the working chiller, one o 'clock, we have the last underground metro. - No, and you missed it. - We missed it. We finished to clean again at three o 'clock after seven o 'clock shift in the morning.
We won't hate him. - Oh my God. - But of course we said, "No, now you do it alone. Now you do it alone." But the sushi chef said, "Everyone." - Oh, man. - Then everyone. What advice would you give to a 16 year old come mine?
So I never would regret what I did, to be honest, but I would like 12, the mine of now at 16 years old. Nice. Because if at 16 years old I have this,
now I will have 10 and we shall answer that. And look, final question, because I think it's very important, and I've never asked anybody this,
but I think you touched upon it earlier on, and I think it's a brilliant point. What advice would you give to any sous chef? To any sous chef,
so as I say, the sous chef is the worst position, because at the end of the day, you get shit everywhere. You get the shit from the sous chef. chef you get the bamboo from so is the worst position but the concern I can give to him is follow the rule what you because the sous chef it's a lady of the chef so it's you are the mentor of him so sometimes the sous chef is want to be a chef with where they are not
ready So it's a step, it will come. If someone will come, just be creative, be cool, be nice,
because the sous chefs are always the happy person in the kitchen, whether you live the team, be a chef or sous chef.
You are a part of management where you have to think more psychologically on the team. because one day team are not okay You have to understand why you're not okay something personal something I did something wrong sometimes also me with my team I say sorry is my fault because it's true because we are We are human we are not robot.
So sometimes we have a they know but always you have to give the best of the best because you are the The image of your restaurant you are the image of your team and if you are not in a good mood,
food not will be in a good mood. This one is for sure. So how your mood is inside, the food will be. And then sometimes I can feel it. Sometimes, you know, during this age,
you have a, you felt in love or you have some craziness, you are, and then you can feel it. People can feel it. The vibes, the atmosphere around you can feel it. And then the advice of the suit chef again You just be good follow the day will come be be nicely with team Listend the team Absorb transfer to me and then this one is that one of the best advice because To be a chef is very hard position when I was
to chef sometimes say no, I want to be a comey again by But it's great advice, so thank you. Now, I just want a quick recap of our conversation,
because it's been fantastic, you know, from your childhood memories to then your beautiful family lunches, the aperitivos, then your education at the age of 15 in Rome.
I mean, amazing. Then working with all of these incredible, legendary Michelin -starred restaurants. and chefs Travelling to then of course coming to Dubai having this beautiful phenomenal restaurant social Which everyone should should really check out the challenges your Quick fire pizza or pasta must have both understood But look if anybody wanted to message you or get hold of you via social media,
how can they do that? So they can do by the the, of course, social page, Instagram. They can do by, social is inside of World of Story upon Jumeirah. World of Story is a brand of luxury brand of Eliton.
They can message them, I can give my private phone. - It's okay. - So what I'll do is I'll also, in the show notes, I'll add your Instagram as well. - Yeah, my Instagram as well.
I have some guests which is, they text me on Instagram. - Ah, very good. - So now, now, in Dubai, you have so many options to be in touch with people,
especially in Dubai with full of social, full of connection. And then it's very fun because we know each other. - Of course. - Also if we don't know, we know. - Exactly. - It's very fun. - Very true. - Well, look,
come on, I just wanted to say a huge thank you for being here, showing us your story, telling us about your food. And it's been absolutely incredible to have you here. here. The very best of luck for the future and I hope to see you again soon.
Thank you. Thank you so much for me here and I'm very happy to see you. Thank you. I really admire Carmine's passion. How amazing it must have been to work as an apprentice at such a young age.
I feel that Carmine is just starting to come into his own. He really is at the very forefront of taking traditional Italian fl - flavors and giving them these twists to make exceptional dishes.
And honestly, I think it could not have been easy to also be a chef, wash your own dishes at the same time. And let's not forget that was in a hardcore Michelin -starred kitchen,
crazy. Also, Kamin touched upon an amazing point, which was about how an ingredient could be deemed deemed luxurious, any ingredient.
It just depends on how the chef treats it, which is such an amazing point. I have absolutely no doubt that chef Carmine will go from strength to strength. I hope you managed to learn a few lessons along the way,
especially about beef and ladles. If you want to see more of what Carmine is doing, I'll place all of the details in the show notes. A big thank you to JJ and the entire team at podcast now for producing the show.
the show and don't forget that you can now watch us on YouTube and if you haven't already, make sure to follow, share and subscribe. I would just like to ask a small favour, if you like the show or think that someone you know could learn a few lessons from the guests and the conversations we have,
please share the show so that it can reach as many people as possible and who knows, perhaps these episodes can inspire someone to take action and be the very best at what they do. Thank you. Finally, a big fat thank you and muchas gracias to you for staying and listening to the entire show and yes,
you are a legend. So, until next time, food is memories.