The Chef JKP Podcast
The Chef JKP Podcast
Season 5 - Episode 5 - Govind Shepley - Interior Designers and Chefs are the Same !
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Creativity is a fundamental aspect of interior design, and Shepley's approach to his craft is deeply rooted in collaboration and understanding the needs and desires of his clients.
In this episode of the ChefJKP Podcast, he highlights the importance of working closely with chefs and owners to create spaces that not only reflect their vision but also enhance the overall dining experience.
By involving the chef from the start, Shepley ensures that the design of the space aligns with the culinary concept and creates a cohesive and immersive experience for diners.
ChefJKP and Govind discuss:
• Designing with Chefs for Kitchen and Interiors
• Joining F&B Leaders and Designing for Jamie Oliver's
• Pressure and Challenges in Design Industry
• Design Industry Differences: London vs Dubai
• Confidence and Client Relationships in Design Projects
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we're going to get serious. Above all, lessons for life. You're listening to the Chef JKP podcast and this is what you can expect on today's show.
I just didn't know what else I would do if I didn't go back to that. If I didn't finish this, I didn't have any other choice but to go back. and work for or just be a do whatever. I don't,
I didn't know what to do. Okay. This was the thing I liked. This was the passion I had. If I don't do it now, I'm going to lose that opportunity and need to, then I don't know where I'm going from there.
We'll sit with the chef and say, all right, how are you going to do this? What do you need here? What do you need here? Understand that. And we design both in line together. So we don't design the interiors and then go to the chef and say,
"This is your kitchen area." We talk to the chef at the start. We understand the food and beverage. We understand your storyline. And all of that creates what our first initial design analysis is.
So we won't be moving forward up until we have that information. Otherwise, we've always got the confidence to do more. It's getting the clients that allow us to do more. So we can do anything that you want and we can do a lot of different things.
push the boundaries all the time But is finding those right clients that allow us to do that giving us the time to kind of give you the experience that you require If you've got an idea, it's let's push it For the first time ever I have invited an interior designer onto the show not just any normal one This is an award -winning interior designer who also just happens to be involved with food and beverage He has this
restaurants that are listed on the iconic global food guides such as Go and Milo and the Red Bible aka The Missioning Guide. He has extensive international experience ranging from opening renowned restaurants in London to designing beautiful interiors for renowned brands in Dubai.
I ask him questions about creative tempers between chefs, designers and owners. I ask him about what it's like to sit and compare designs. And how does it feel when your designs are being pulled apart by clients?
This episode is not only light -hearted, but I believe the lessons from this interview will be valuable to anyone and everyone, whether you're in hospitality or not. The guest on this week's show is none other than Govind Shepley.
He is the visionary behind the award -winning company 2106. Listen out for a story involving lights. Time to rock and roll. Just before we begin,
here is a small message from this week's guest. Hi, my name is Govind Sheppley, Creative Director of 2106. If you like the podcast, please make sure to follow, share and subscribe.
Welcome back to the Chef JKP podcast. And on the show today, we have Govind Sheppley, who is the Creative Director and Founder of 21... 2106 Interior Design Company.
Govind, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? Very good, thank you so much. I have to say it's the first time we've had an interior designer on the show. I do feel privileged, thank you.
So we're really excited to have you here. But before we go into all of the design questions, can you please tell me your first ever or favourite childhood food memory?
memory. Oh, I've got two actually. So again, I'm not a chef, so it's more about the experience of not really cooking or anything like that. Well actually, one is, one is not.
Live with my nan and my auntie and my nan always had a garden. So always kind of growing vegetables. We used to grow corn, onions, garlic, so like that was kind of my first experience with food.
And back then, I used to absolutely hate it. It was a chore. chore having to pick up a big garden, having to play with the worms, chickpeas, picking those from the pods. But now I absolutely like reminisce about it and miss being in the garden,
being outside, especially being in Dubai, when you don't really have much greenery around. Which parts of England was that? London. So just outside of London, just yeah, Uxbridge. So it was quite nice.
We had a kind of nice garden. And she's obviously originally from India. So she was from India. a farming background. So she brought that back over when she moved. So yes, we used to grow everything. We used to have a plum tree, everything.
It was just really nice. Sounds like a dream. Yeah, it was then, it was a chore. And I was like, I've just got to do this every weekend. Now I'm like, I miss it. I miss going in the garden, miss picking the,
seeing it grow. We used to have strawberries, yeah, just everything like that. And just seeing ripe tomatoes, how she would like try it. them out and how it all works And then I think the second one would be with again,
we're Indian descent So again, it's more say we used to make them at home and with my two brothers We would have a little like train or a production line So one would be kind of making the shape of it one will be filling it one will be closing it off So it will be kind of like a little train again We would absolutely hate it was tedious but now I look back,
I'm like, oh, that was really good. Like it was time spent with the families, time spent with food, spent with my auntie, with my nan. So it was really good time to kind of get together and kind of do something.
Generally through summers, just to keep us occupied, so we don't cause trouble. - But it sounds like a chef's background almost, you know? What are you doing? Because I think that's fantastic, the way that, I love the fact that your family got you involved and digging all that stuff.
kind of stuff early on I think is really important and then that production line. What sort of flavours were around when you were growing up? It was yeah, pretty much traditional Indian food so a lot of the turmeric,
a lot of the other kind of flavours that come with those types of dishes. I can't really remember all of them. As I said, not really the best at cooking, can hold my own but not very well. My wife would disagree but yeah.
So when you were growing up what were your likes and dislikes? food -wise? Again, it's really mad that traditional Indian food, I didn't like it as much. We just used to have it way too often,
so we'd always kind of like, when we have British food, we're like, yeah, we'll have that today and we'll go through that. Now, because it's not readily available and my auntie can't be there to cook for me, I'm like,
I want it more often. So whenever I go back now, it's pretty much just, can you cook this dish for me? Can you cook it for me? this dish for me? Like chicken curry, one of these lamb curry, sard,
all of that stuff. So I'm just like, so I really maximise that when I go back home. My wife's mum is also like a great cook. So she, again, going back brought breakfast,
I can probably eat four or five of them just on the basis of I'm not going to get them again unless I come back to the UK when they come over. Got to take advantage. Yeah. - Yeah, and she'll just keep feeding us.
So I'm just like, "All right, yeah, that's good." - I think I need to pop round and have a look. So then growing up, education -wise, which sort of path did you take through college?
Did you always know you wanted to design or did you have a different path? - No, actually, for the first after college, no, during college, I was training to be a mechanic and I was doing engineering,
car mechanic, and it turns out, out. I absolutely hate oil on my hands And in the winter time it's cold. I really just was like alright. I can't do this So we went to engineering and then from engineering.
I found that I like the design side So I had a diploma in engineering then went into graphics design So then did a year and a half two years in graphics design then realized I like the architecture side from that and then from graphics design.
Yeah went into architecture interior architecture, and started with that, went to Nottingham Trent University. So it was kind of one of the best for our courses. It was that we'll go into the army, but I had to just kind of get away from where we were.
And then, yeah, interior architecture, that really kind of opened my mind to just how things are. And that was really good. So I want to ask you then, obviously, the mechanic part of it, not for you,
then you went found the engineering side, because because it sounds like such a fast progression after you left, you know, the car mechanics, because it really feels like you're straight away.
I was only in car mechanics for about three and a half weeks before I realized I did not like it. Okay. I was out. Yeah. So then what made you go into the engineering side of things? Uh, it was kind of both partnerships.
So it was like, all right, I'm going to do car mechanics. I might as well learn engineering as well and see, because I thought maybe maybe there's another line of mechanics that I like. So it was maybe there's something else in engineering that I would like.
That's not calm mechanics. That's not outdoors. So I thought, all right, we'll see how that goes. - And how old were you when you started the engineering? - I think I was 17, 16, 17.
- Just quite young. To actually be like, this is the path I want to go down. I mean, you enjoyed it. - Yeah, well, well, I've always had quite a background in construction. construction and hands -on, obviously, with the arming or anything else we were doing.
But then, yeah, so engineering was kind of that pathway. I thought was the right one. Also, interior architecture in our family or anyone I knew, there was nobody who did that or took that pathway.
- Quite specialised. - Yeah, and interior architecture. - Yeah, so there wasn't really many doors open to me for looking at that. So it was more finding my feet to get to that. So it wasn't like, I wanted to be an interior architect at the start,
but through that progression of engineering, through that progression of graphics design, through that got me to where I was now. So it was a slow process, but it found the right path for me and gave me a lot of good key skill sets on the way.
So then tell me about university. How many years was that? Well, it should have only been four years, but it took me five. I failed my first year too much. I would say not enough.
focus and a lot of partying or just not taking it serious. And it's not a degree you can take lightly. So yes, the first year kind of didn't go as well as what I expected,
but then yeah, we kind of changed the perspective of that and kind of carried on. So tell me the decision that basically was the catalyst for you to sort of knuckle down the first year. Okay, it was party,
all that kind of stuff, not focused. When did you really think, okay, I need to really focus on this? Because I just didn't want to go back to Uxbridge without any education or a degree because I just didn't know what else I would do if I didn't go back to that.
If I didn't finish this, I didn't have any other choice, but to go back and work for or just be a do whatever, I didn't know what to do. This was the thing I liked,
this was the passion I had. If I don't do it now, I'm going to lose that opportunity. and need to, then I don't know where I'm going from there. Okay. So then if we scrub that first year and look forward to the next four,
how was the syllabus, the hands -on experience, all of that kind of stuff? It was good, actually. It was one of the best courses, as I mentioned, but it was developed into a lot to do with construction side,
understanding how things are built, not just on the design design side. So you would actually have a lot of model -making, understand the engineering. So 'cause this interior architecture is not just the aesthetics,
it's understanding how a concept developed, how do you build something. So there was a lot of syllabuses in where you have to be really hands -on. Again, part architecture, part interior.
So you kind of really got a good all over hands -on experience from that. And then there was one year where you had to... do a placement year. And again, my placement year was a MEP company,
a Bacto Engineering. - So what does MEP mean for people who don't know what that means? - Mechanical, electrical and plumbing. So I worked for a company that was kind of doing the architecture side and that. And I was doing a little bit more on the MEP,
doing the drawings and the detailing and kind of creating, well, doing the layouts for them. - That was the second, third or fourth year? - Third year. - Third year, okay. And then that, okay. opened your eyes a lot more 'cause it was hands -on,
right? No oil on the hands, I'm assuming. - No, still got to wear my shirt. - And then what happens in the fourth year? - Fourth year is where you kind of really realize it's all or nothing,
like you've got to spend every hour working on your kind of final presentation. There is no more kind of learning process. It's more... delivering on what's the end result. So it's kind of a good year of your dissertation,
as well as your kind of final project, which was, yeah, which was good. Okay, so hold on. So normally you have a dissertation in most universities, but you had to deliver two things.
A dissertation, which is also quite tough and tricky. And a project. What was the project? Actually, my project was a hydroponic farm. So it was predominantly a hydroponic farm that could kind of create vegetables,
food and have a cafe with inside it. So kind of working around that, how to best grow produce. - Wow. - 10 years ago or 10 years ago, hydroponics weren't as sophisticated as now.
So it was really as well -versed, but now like kind of the technology is like going fast tracking massively. So yeah, so it was predominantly a project, it's a good 10 years ago, now 10,
11 years ago. years ago now. So quite a long time for that project. But it's interesting that you also geared it towards food. Yeah. I didn't realize that I was doing that at the time,
but still predominantly something that, again, hydroponics, farming, all of that stuff. I was really passionate about growing, even had my own hydroponics on there in the office. Yeah. So then after you graduated,
when was your first sort of delve into the world of food and beverage and design? It didn't come straight away. So my first ever project or company I worked for was actually just one man on his own,
an architect, and as a kind of deal we made, we said, "All right, he had a new office, and I did have a construction background before, like I did a lot of construction through the summer times." And he goes like,
"Well, we're going to do that." got a new office and I need someone to help me kind of build it. So I was physically half days up until it was done, building his office, putting up his partitions. Yeah, physically putting up his partitions,
painting with him. And then half the day we would work on the projects and he gave us a great understanding into detailing. So we would focus on a very high -end hotels. So it was really good education in that.
And those back in the day were a lot more slow. -paced so it was on Hyde Park we were working on one hotel in there so it was really nice and it kind of like the detailing the drawings and everything you kind of gave us a really hands -on experience so my path to F &B was more again it was trial and error like I did with my education first hotels then I thought maybe I wanted to go into retail design so I then
worked for Hackett fashion label and create creating concepts within that. But that gave us a good understanding. We created the concept stores across the world. That gave us a good understanding in brand development,
how to kind of take guidelines, understand a brand which is already established. Worked for them for about two years, but I worked for them on a freelance basis and then got to a point where they offered me a full -time job and I just quit on the spot.
I was like, I just don't want to do this. anymore. In fact, it was quite a weird one. So with my manager, he goes, "They're going to offer you a new job, a full -time position,
and they want you on board." And I was like, "All right, cool." And he goes, "To be fair, you've been working illegally with us for the last two years because you're not meant to be a freelancer for only one company." I was like,
"All right." And then they come in, we had a meeting and I thought about it and I was like, "I think I've got everything I need out here." And I was like, "Okay." don't know what else I can do if I stay here. I'm not gonna develop it as well I think I don't like retail design.
So yeah, so I went over and they were like, oh, so this is what we're gonna offer you I was like You know what? It's not enough. I feel like I don't really want it and I think I'm gonna quit and they were like,
oh, okay Sat back down on my desk and my manager come over he goes. I heard you quit I was like, yeah, well, they didn't offer me the kind of salary I wanted or anything He goes, you never think I heard of the term negotiation.
Like you could have just negotiated your price point or what you wanted. You don't just go and say you quit. I was like, to be fair, I think I had everything I wanted to learn from them guys. And we had a great team.
The people taught me a lot of stuff. So it was good. And then I just like, I was just dancer. And then they were like, so what are you going to do? I was like, don't really know. So yeah, then. So you had nothing.
Nothing lined up. Okay. Okay. So just kind of quite, quite brave. Yeah, I didn't really, there wasn't, I didn't spend a lot of money, didn't really do much in personal, it was just more working. So I was like,
I'll find something, there's always something out there. And then I did get hired by another company, which again, to this day, I do feel bad for them because when for a month worked with them.
And again, they were really excited to have us on board. They were like, yeah, we're going to push the design section. Now we're going to go forward. forward. They were predominantly F &B and I was there for a month and then another company called Blacksheep,
which was kind of the F &B leaders called me and said, look, we actually got another position. Would you want to come on board? This is the salary and it was actually less than the salary that the other company were paying me.
I said, yeah, I'll come on board. And they were quite upset that I left within a month. But we went to, yeah, F &B for Blacksheep. They are the guys who did the first F &B. ever Jamie Oliver's,
a couple of the Gordon Ramsay's, first Brew Dogs. So yeah, so it's got a really good education into creating concepts and working on F &B with them guys. And then, yeah. - So that's when it started?
- Yeah. - So tell me about your life then in London, designing sort of or being involved with this company, Black Sheep, who were really the, they were massive in the game of design,
especially for F &B, Gordon Ramsay's Jamie Oliver's. How was that? for you? - Yeah, it was quite intense. Again, design industry is always quite high pressure. Timeframes also being a creative,
we're not very great with timeframes. We work till the end to the last minute and then we present. So there was a few nights where we like slept in the office. Timeframes keep going quickly.
People want to change things. And again, as designers, we sometimes tend to design for ourselves. And you've got one of those. backwards. And you're always kind of slightly under resourced, but it was good.
It was, again, working in London, in Farringdon, right by Leather Lane, where all the food market is, you've got loads of different places around. So working in London, I think was one of the best.
I miss London a lot, yeah, for everything. Tell me about the pressure, because I think that's one thing which we haven't touched upon that we don't necessarily, especially as chefs or F &B people, we wouldn't think Thank you.
Thank you. have pressure. We would have the sort of idea that you're behind a desk, taking a nice time to design everything, then you go inside, talk to the client.
Tell me about the pressure, because people really, I want them to understand your job is highly pressurized. Yeah, I think you got to think about it as our job or it's very subjective.
So, creating something, everyone's got an opinion, everyone's Everyone wants to talk about it, deadlines. Also, when it comes to F &B, you have say a period of time where your rent starts.
So we have to design something before that starts and then you've got to go into construction and then you've got to kind of get there. It's also designing a business. So if you make mistakes in that, it costs the client money.
So we have to really consider what we do, how we do it, timeframes are... are tight. And then again, you've got so much subjective terms that people are looking at design. Everyone's got an opinion on design.
Everyone can say something, but they don't understand how much thought goes into how high the table is, what type of tables you've got. Do you have dishes that are small plates? So you need a larger table because you can have multiple.
Is it a fine dining restaurant? So all of these small details down to your skirt in down to the kind of level. of Details if you can look into a restaurant and see or a design and see nothing wrong with it Then kind of haven't done it right,
but also if you it just blends in you've done it quite well like nothing really This is really interesting. Govind. Tell me about creative tempers the clashes between owners designers chefs because you must have seen some tricky situations when you're working on site.
The client wants one thing, you've designed something else, maybe the chef or the owner. There must be some tricky situations. There's always some, I don't think we've ever had a project where there's no kind of opinion based on absolutely nothing but someone else's opinion.
So again, kind of an owner wants an idea of a restaurant because it could be kind of a more of a vanity project or it's not based. based on a subjective term. He's seen something over there and wants it here.
So we get a lot of that in this region, but you kind of have to navigate around that. But then you've got a chef who knows what he wants in his kitchen. He knows how he's going to operate his food but doesn't always get listened to.
Then you've also got designers who we have big egos as well. Like we have to kind of have this ego because you kind of have to have. You're selling something non -tangible. So you have to really be personable.
You also have to have that confidence to say, "No, this is what you want. This is how it's going to be." Because we sell something that doesn't exist. So you have to kind of give them the idea or a dream of what it's going to look like before you get to the visuals.
So designers have a pretty big ego and are quite sensitive. Again, when you change our design, we're like, "It's the end of the world." It's, it can be just as simple as a light.
I hate that light. I don't wanna, I don't like that. You've ruined my whole design. Or when you come back in a month's time, you're like, oh, actually, it's all right. It's okay. But again, you gotta think we've committed our personal,
our time, our energy, our heart into that project. So we are, it's kind of like chefs. You commit a lot into your food, your production, your delivery. So you kind of really think a lot about it.
It's part of you when you're delivering something or when you're designing something. And then for someone to say, ah, I don't really like that. It kind of can be a little bit personal or taken personally. - Yeah, because I can imagine,
you know, in a market like London, super competitive for design, I'm sure, as well as in a market like in the UAE, you have to really understand what the client wants,
but also you need to sort of guide the client. And the other thing, thing, what I'm sort of working my way around is that not only do you have the design point of view,
but from an ops point of view, designers don't necessarily understand, let's say hardcore kitchen operations or F and B. So merging those three worlds together must be quite tricky.
It is, but it can be tricky. easily done. You just have specialists who do different things. So as a designer, we'll never design a kitchen. We have got no expertise in that,
but we'll sit with the chef and say, "All right, how are you gonna do this? "What do you need here? "What do you need here?" Understand that. And we design both in line together. So we don't design the interiors and then go to the chef and say,
"This is your kitchen area." We talk to the chef at the start. We understand the food and beverage. We understand. We understand your storyline. And all of that creates what our first initial design analysis is.
So we won't be moving forward up until we have that information. Otherwise, you're kind of having two parts fight against each other, which a restaurant, your engine is your kitchen, and you can't do anything without that.
It's a pointless vanity project or a waste of space if your kitchen doesn't work and your chefs just constantly fighting. And please listen, owners and business owners. The kitchen is the engine and the heart.
Please take note. So then I want to understand, tell me the name, the story behind the name of your company. 2106,
it was originally my door number which I started the company out of. So I left my previous job. We left on the basis of there was nothing again probably. probably maybe do this way too often.
I think I've got enough out of the company and we just kind of weren't aligned anymore. So I just said, "Look, make me redundant. I don't really know if I want to be here anymore. There's no point you me staying here if I'm not providing you the best service or I'm not giving you my heart in the company." So you might as well.
So let's part ways. I've built you a team, you've got everything you require. I'll go my way. you go your way and we we agreed And I knew it was nice and then I kind of sat there I'd got married two months before three months before and my wife just come over and she just got a job So she was like well,
you don't have to jump into getting a job. You see how you're going So kind of sat there and then I got called two weeks after I left the company one of the clients was like Oh, look, what's wrong with your project?
It's going really bad. I was like, look, I'm not there anymore So it's not my project." Then he called me up an hour later, and he goes, "Oh, so what are you doing now?" And it was more of a question than a statement. And I was like,
"Starting a company?" And he goes, "Oh, okay, yeah, I think." And then he called me up an hour later, and he goes, "So do you want some work?" I was like, "Yes." And he goes, "All right, I've got two projects coming up.
Would you want to be doing those?" And I was like, "Yeah." So it just kind of started organically. Wow. That's nice. I had the work, it didn't happen. a trade license, didn't have a name or anything, so I couldn't get paid. So I was like,
"All right, what's the best way to kind of take a name that we're kind of associates with us?" And 2106 was actually my door number, so we started it off there. I started it off in the location in my apartment,
just got rid of the desk that I started the company out of, which was a painful task, which my wife was like, "You don't work at home anymore. You've got an office, so I'm getting rid of it." your office desk.
- Oh my God, that's a very emotional, yeah. - It's like, you just get rid of my stuff. So yeah, so it was our door number that we started the company from. - Okay, so how long ago did you start the company?
- Five years, yeah. So we're coming up to our sixth year, I believe, yeah. - So what's the ethos of the company? - It's creating experiences with strategic data and information.
information. The way that we create experiences is, again, atmosphere, the idea, but we also use a lot of data and information to create our designs. When you say having chefs,
owners, and designers arguing against each other on what we're creating, we use a lot of background information and research and data to understand which way we should go, what's happening for the forefront of the industry,
what's moving forward. So we focus a lot on that combining. interiors and design with data and information to create a very strong concept that's going to last the test of times. Wow.
So designing -wise, it's not about the short term. You're really looking at the long -term side of things. Yeah. We even turned down projects that we don't believe are going to last the test of time in this region because there's a lot of vanity projects,
as you rather spend our time working on the projects that are gonna benefit the industry than ruin the industry.
- Let me ask you a question. Certainly I've been involved in designing kitchens and not necessarily the design, but specifically the equipment. For me, I will always go for the most expensive piece of equipment,
not because I want to spend the company's money, but because I know that that piece of equipment will still be there in 10, 15, 20 years time. Do you find the same when it comes to the materials that you use and having that sort of conversation with business owners and saying,
look, this is super cheap. It will do the job for like a year or whatever. But if you spend this much money, it will be here for far longer. - Yes, I think that's changed over time.
So previously when you used to have a lot of people, but it was a very, transient market we have to buy. So you'd have a lot of people within, say, higher or corporates.
So we don't work with just owners, we work with corporates, we work with types of people who are in big holding groups. They will be opening projects, but they want to get it done quickest and the cheapest because that's their role and they know that they won't be there for the next two years.
But when you have owners or people are looking for it now, people are all understanding. get the better equipment, get the right suppliers, get the right quality. We do still have the argument, but again,
sometimes I have to tell clients you don't need that higher end material. You can have this one because it will not last and you're going to have a quicker turnover. So I think it's both of, yeah,
so you do have people who still want to go through that, but most of the time it's more the holding groups, the larger groups. groups who are quick and cheap. But when it comes to an owner and a individual or a chef,
then it's 100 % best equipment. When a chef comes or a owner comes, they're predominantly focused on the best equipment, the best option. What's going to provide me with longevity? I don't want to change this.
And again, we advise them on if you're going to go for the cheap one, you're going to have to close down your restaurant at some point. How much money are you going to lose on the base? of closing it down and replacing all of this? Is it worth that extra additional X now?
And I guess also you have to consider budget as well. Not everyone's got an unlimited budget that we can just throw at it. So let's say for chefs, restaurateurs,
owners who have never been involved in it, or let's say have never come to a designer such as yourself. What's the process? process for me to fully understand how you guys work?
For example, I say, "Hi, Govind. Thank you so much. We'd like to work with your company. This is my vision. Please take me forward. How does that work?" We'll do a lot of digging deep into the person,
the brand, the understanding of which way you're going. We have three phases. Design analysis, which is predominantly understanding what you are, who you are, listening to you.
Most of the time it's just listening, taking that information, and then regurgitating it back to you to make sure that we have the right brief understanding. - Okay, so that's stage one? - Yep, so we're not going off on a tangent that is completely wrong.
- Yep, and wasting everyone's time. - Okay. - Stage two is concept development. So we will then kind of understand and move forward on the design. So start to get mood images, get to the visuals,
get the 3D space. of everything, layouts and plans, everything like that ready. And then the third phase is detail design. So that's focused on everything down to your skirt in your,
all the details that need to be provided for a contractor to build it. So it's a three phase kind of part, but through that, it can be quite emotional. It's more of back and forth. So it's not that we turn up one day and this is it.
It's literally a we need to have a meeting every week. We're going to go through this part. How do you feel about this one? How do you feel about this chair?" So we take you through the process. We hold your hand. We make sure that you're comfortable with everything we're doing,
as well as guiding you and explaining why we do it. It's not our project. It's not about us. It's about a business. It's about running something that is someone's personal project.
So we have to understand it from that perspective. I tell a lot of my designers, "It's all about listening. It's what we do." do the most. So then how long, I mean this is a bit of a tricky question,
how long does that process generally take from phase one to phase three? Yeah, it depends on size and types of projects. So a fine dining one could take up to three months which is good,
I think still as a good time. That's a reasonable amount of time I think. So three months but again those are got high level of detail. depending on what you're going through and again it's dependent on how quick the client is to understand what they want so if you can give me more information on what you require or what you'd like we can take that and improve it.
Our job isn't just to take what you've got and give it back to you it's to enhance it make sure it works give you the advice of this again as you said operations understanding where POS systems go how your lighting systems are the noise the music how the flow of the space is.
So again, how your operations team work around it, how the customer flow is. So we go through all of those details with you, making sure that, I know some chefs do understand that, but some people or owners don't understand that you need a space for people to pass.
Try and put in as many chairs as you want, but it doesn't work. You kind of go backwards on that. - Yeah, especially I think the biggest thing I've always seen is how the team little kitchen,
huge amounts of restaurants based and then you're not able to push the food out enough. The reason why I'm asking you Govind is because I've heard, not that I know but I've heard that some companies,
design companies do not go into the specifics and the detail, they just want to make a quick buck and they don't really care about your project, which I think is sad but what's really refreshing to hear.
is that you really go into the hardcore specifics and details, because I find that really important. But why is it important to you as a company to do that for the client?
It's our reputation as well. Everything we deliver is a reflection on us, so we need to deliver the highest quality. Secondly, it's educating people. So if nobody knows who is that you need a scut.
level or your bar height needs to be this and the kitchen equipment doesn't go under it, it's gonna be blamed on us or it's gonna be asked why didn't you guys understand that? We do it on the basis of it's the best way we develop our quality as well.
We made a design on the concept stage that looks fantastic but you can't see the little finer details in that. Down to are your feet on your chair adjustable or your table.
table's adjustable, the skirt in around the edges, the beading, the detailing of the ceiling. How does your MEP or your AC sit? Is that above a client? If it's above a guest or anyone,
then they're always constantly cold, then that's a bad layout for that. So there's a lot of detail that needs to go into it. So anyone who designs it without that level or just concept only,
I think is doing a bad job because they don't understand how much. much detail is required to go into a restaurant. And we also benchmark it on, it's someone's money. It's a business. It's not based on just giving someone a pre -picture because someone has to try and make money on that.
I guess from my perspective, I maybe have changed that since I started to own a company. And now I realize that anyone's money I'm spending has to be reasonable and it has to provide value to it.
And everyone's looking for an ROI on their business. So that's where we have to make sure everything works down to how much power and data that you need on your POS systems. How many hotspots are you going to have?
So yeah, I think that's what makes the operations of a restaurant work as well. So you have to go into that detail. But that also will make you stand out compared to the rest. Attention chefs,
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www .2106 .com. Now back to the episode. Now let's say we finished phase three and then you go to your contractors.
Are you still there when the contractors are around or have you just let the client go? go? That's a client's choice. Generally we do post -contract work, so we will show up while a contractor will always try and find the easiest solution,
we'll always find the best solution, and again, it's their business to build, they're going to want to get in, get out, and there's nothing wrong with that. They're doing their job. Is it your job to meet the deadlines or is it the contractor's?
Contractor's job to meet the deadlines. Right, but it's our job to provide... the information for the contractor to do their job. So it's not a one, we do our job, they do our job. It's a team effort.
So we are working with the contractor to deliver with that. So we're all working for the client. So everything we do is in the client's favor. So we all have to sit down and say, all right,
look, this is what we're doing. We have multiple conversations with contractors before we talk to the client. So if something goes wrong, we don't go to the client and say, hey, they're doing this or they are doing this. - Right. - Say, hey, how can we solve this problem before we talk to the client?
- 'Cause that must be also very tricky. I'm sure you've been on jobs where, you know, the contract has done something, it's not in the design. That must be also quite difficult conversation now. - But that comes with experience.
You can find ways to solve a problem. We're problem solvers at the end of the day. So our job is to find a solution for the issue at hand. Or so. you never go on a site in Dubai where it is exactly like the landlord's drawings.
So there's always changes with a plan or a design. It will never go exactly how you plan it to go. So having that level of being on board really helps. So you can change things on site.
It's a quick, some things may take two weeks if you don't have someone who's educated in making a the right decision. It could be done in 15 minutes. minutes. If I could turn up and say, all right, don't do that,
just do this, this, and this. So it's about education and it's about like experience as well. - Did you have that experience also in London where the design wasn't necessarily there or the contractors didn't match or was it less there then?
- Less. It's a weird one, like when I go back to London and work in London, everyone just does their job. It's not a, contractors do the... contracting job. They're really good.
They understand the drawings. They understand that they don't need their hand held. Designers produce a high level of drawings and details so that the contractor can do their job. Everyone's again aligned. And I guess that's where I take it and bring it here.
Right. So here can be a bit of a conflict or two people arguing, but I think that's changing as well. Now everyone's starting to get a little bit more aligned or the contractors we work with.
We can have a conflict. It's not a you did this you did that. Okay, how do we solve your pointy? Yeah, okay We try and avoid that and again you can do that all you want, but it doesn't get us anywhere So and we all are here to do a job So let's just move forward and go to that and get that done and solve the problem And the other point that I sort of wanted to raise to you is that in the food game
specifically the people that I interview are Ah are Michelin -starred chefs, their restaurants are in 50 best, they're in Gomelot, they're award -winning restaurateurs. - Yeah.
- But nobody ever talks about the design that has contributed to that award. Because when I think about it, and what you're saying to me now, are the same specifics or the same points of view that chefs go through when they're designing dishes or when they're designing experiences.
So I think that's... a really important point to make that, of course, nobody or as a client you don't sit in a restaurant and go,
"Oh, well, somebody's actually designed this table beautifully and I've got my feet here and I can sit for three or four hours comfortably." I think that's a really big deal. Yeah. Genuinely. Yeah. I think it's,
again, ergonomics of a chair. How do you say, "Is that going to hurt your back?" Or are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you, are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you going to, are you
going to, are you going to, are be comfortable sitting there for two hours? And again, that goes down to what type of restaurant you are. If you're a fine dining and you're having people sitting there for two hours, two and a half hours, every detail has to be perfect.
And the fact that nobody notices it means that it's probably done a good job. But you've done your job. Yeah. So nobody's sitting there going, "Oh, my back hurts. This chair." But I think the design,
the experience by the chef and the operations. operations, it all aligns. I think this day and age, you have to have all of it aligned and you have to have it like 50, 50, 50 on that dependence.
So it's not, all right, it's just the chef's food or it's just the atmosphere. Again, I would say the chef's food's more important. The food and the service and the delivery is slightly higher than just the interiors because you can have a beautiful restaurant.
But if the food... food and the operation is terrible, nobody's coming back. Correct. I think it has to go hand in hand. Yeah. But you're right about the AC. If you're having a beautiful meal and the AC is blowing directly on top of you,
you're going to have a horrid experience. So as you said, it's all of these major details. The one thing I always say to my wife, whenever I go to any restaurant, I always go, this is the first thing I look for,
the lights. Yeah. I want to understand the lighting. the mood, because I hate restaurants that have got super bright lights. I like beautifully dim lights, especially in the evening. Not so much in the day,
I don't worry about it, but in the evening, I want to understand that experience, because for me, it should almost be like an art gallery lighting where you're focusing predominantly on the plate. So I think that's root for me.
Anyway, I think that's key. What I wanted to also ask is, you've now worked with award -winning chefs and you've been involved in some fantastic projects here in the Middle East. Now,
specifically, I'm going to go to the restaurant Rafe Offman in Dubai Hills, Bib Gourmand. Rafe is an award -winning chef, not just in the region, but also internationally. But with that kitchen,
I just want to sort of tell anybody who hasn't been there before. You walk into this beautiful space and then in the middle of the restaurant there's this bustling full on kitchen,
super busy. So even as you walk in there's a window full of chefs and you walk through the restaurant, you've got this beautiful bar and then if you walk to the other side of the restaurant it's kind of like this huge glass panel,
again full of chefs, the main kitchen and it's busy. But not only that, Rafe and yourselves have designed something really extremely beautiful, which I really love,
and I think is so clever, is the experience by Rafe Ostman. But the actual restaurant is almost situated within the middle of the kitchen, and it's a restaurant.
So I wanted to understand how all of this project came about and the challenges you faced with this. The biggest challenge I've had in my life on that was the actual location.
So again, you've kind of got a big horseshoe shape where you've got a seat in. The landlord wouldn't allow us to kind of work in the corridors or certain areas so you was bound by like literally the architecture of how you can work with it.
So the way that you were saying with the experience from the bakery there on one side and on the other side you have the chef's experience, it's because it's such a long process. of spaces. So you had to create different atmospheres or keep customers intrigued or don't feel like you've been shoved on the other end when you want to be on the other end.
All the actions happening here. So we created points of actions throughout the whole space. Create our experiences and making sure that every area of that restaurant has its own experience or is no less than the other experience in the main restaurant.
restaurant. But then Tero come from Reeth. He was like, I want a restaurant. I don't need to see it. I would just want it away. It's only going to be about an experience of 12 people. I was like, okay,
cool. And again, it was how do we plug this in there? If you move it to one side, then you've lost half of a restaurant that needs to also make money. And he has to utilize that space,
you lose that corridor space that you can't build into. So it was a lot of rejigging, working around with Reef with a lot of the people with the team and going through those processes of a lot of trial and error of plans.
And then we kind of said, all right, look, the best way to do it is hide that one, put it in the middle, and we'll create that experience around there. So even to get into that, you have to go through the bakery. There is no separate entrance for it.
It's just going through the kitchen. Yeah, going through the kitchen. And it's really nice. nice. Like, again, I was like, are you happy? He goes, I keep my kitchen clean. It's always good. I'm more than happy for people to walk through and experience that.
And I was like, then we looked at a couple of reports or four sites and we talked about extreme restaurant designing and how you kind of really hero the food or creating experience through that.
And that's kind of that experience. Tero was built around a homage of Reef and his personality. It's all about his cooking. It's about his experience. It's about telling his story.
Every month there's a new menu. It's about his journey through a culinary experience. So it's really good. Like the, again, we've got the Pac -Man machine in there. We've got the kind of skateboards, the trainers. It's all about his personality.
So we really had to kind of get to know him, understand what he's looking for, what his personality is, and then create something that's within that. And again, if you look at the design, it's pretty much like it's clean,
but that's it. but then you kind of hear out on the actual cooking areas and the actual dining areas. So it's kind of this white box that focuses on him and his team cooking and creating those experiences.
Because I think what is so, I mean, I really love the place specifically because when you walk in, you have this beautiful, casual concept, food, very high -end service, high -end, everything high -end,
but is essentially casual and high -end. casual I would say. And then you have literally no idea that there was another restaurant located in the heart of this beautiful outlet.
And then when you do walk in, you don't even know it's there, you walk in through the kitchen and then there's sliding doors and you say there's a lounge, yeah, which has this Pac -Man machine, you're like, you know, it's fantastic.
And then another door opens. And then that's where you see this kitchen, this Omakase sort of experience with Rayfair. But I was thinking the whole time, like, from a design point of view,
what a challenge. Yeah. Yeah. But again, those are the best ones. Yeah. Because it must do so much for yourself and your team to really push the boundaries. Yeah. Like even to get out of the restaurant,
you have to go through a hidden door. Yeah. That looks like a brick wall, even where the chefs come in or the team come in, they have their own hidden door from the kitchen. So it's really nice kind of all these small little hero points that people remember and kind of creates that experience.
And how do you get a sliding door that you just press a button? You have to hide that button and go through that. Then you go back into the bar area, into reef through a fridge door.
And again, you won't notice that that door has to go anywhere. except right next to the wine and everything and the bar. So you just assume it's just another fridge. - Yeah, no. - It was a good project to work with.
With Reef, it was, yeah, I think that one took a little bit longer than we expected. But again, great person to work with. It was nice working with him. He, as a chef, trusted us quite a lot.
Had his opinion on quite a few things, but at the end of the day, he trusted us and he took a lot of time to kind of understand who we are and myself and I've got a really good relationship with him now. He also - Because you've opened a few now?
Yeah, yeah. I think we're on our third one now and we'll be moving on to a couple more with him. I think it was him who stopped me from even selling my company this year. Thank you,
Ray. Thank you so much. Yeah, gave me some good advice and just swore at me and just said, "Don't sell your company anymore." Thank you. That's all right, cool. leave it. But I think that must have given you also,
has it given you confidence to move forward, to work on bigger projects and to be more adventurous with chefs and F &B within the region? It's not given me the confidence.
We've always got the confidence to do more. It's getting the clients that allow us to do more. So we can do anything that you want, and we can push the boundaries all the time, but it's finding those right clients that allow us to do more.
us to do that, giving us the time to give you the experience that you require. If you've got an idea, it's let's push it. It's not let's do what someone else has done around the corner, or let's do another reef,
or I've seen what we have done over there. Let's do that over here. We never replicate. None of our projects, if you look at them, have the same look and feel, same idea, nothing to do with that. It's about your project,
and we're only as good as our clients. If you allow us to push the boundaries, we'll push it to the breaking point and then we'll pull it back. That's what I was going to ask you because you said something very, very,
I think interesting is about the right client. What does that mean? Someone who doesn't have to understand design but understands the intentions of what they're doing.
Do they know what their own F &B is going to be? Do they know what their food and beverage is going to be? Do they know that target audience? Do they know their demographic? Are they choosing the right location? All of these things need to be understood.
A right client does get that. We can help with that. But again, are you trying to do a 300 square meter restaurant fine dining, super high end in Albuja because it's not going to work and nobody's going to really come around there.
But if you can find a really cool. cool hole in the wall type of concept in that area Then yeah, you're going to get a footfall and you're going to get a kind of good Return on that and you're spending X amount instead of the highest amount You can so I think it's going back to a client understanding what they want and do they understand the market that they're stepping into Because you do get a lot that are they
don't know well I was gonna ask you is there such a thing as a wrong client or have you ever had to refuse jobs where? Yeah, yeah don't align with your ethos of the company? Yeah. There was one client who wanted a Namos in Albuja.
So they said, "Look, we really like Namos. It's working really well in Jamiro. And I think if we build it in Albuja, it will do really well because this side of the market will come to it." And I was like,
"That is not true. Namos, when you don't have the staff, you don't have the expertise, you don't have the menu." menu, you don't have the location. Again, people were going to Namos, one of LA,
I was like, how's your parking? Then we're like, we don't have parking. I was like, so where is anyone gonna park and like you're gonna try and charge those prices in al -Basha, it's not gonna work. And then they were like, yeah, but we think it is.
And I was like, I agree with you that you think it is, but I don't wanna be part of this project 'cause I don't want my name to it. And then secondly, I don't wanna rip off a number. Amos and be like,
"All right, we've just seen that and we're going to go over here and place it here." Because that's someone else's brand, that's someone else's time, energy, a designer's done that, a chef's done that. There's ownership on that. Taking that and then moving it there and being like,
"Yeah, we're just going to call it something different," but it's exactly the rip -off of that. It's not exciting for us. So it doesn't really showcase the right client, doesn't showcase we want to push the boundaries or is just take that over here and move it.
it there And those types of clients we can say are not the right clients or ones that say all right We're gonna spend a 10 million on a restaurant and it's gonna be in JBR And it's gonna be fine dining and I see like how are you gonna get your ROI?
How are you gonna get what's your price point? How are you gonna make that back? Are you actually have you done any research into what your business model is a small details like that that you can find and you can say,
"Actually, yeah, they're probably not the right client that they can't answer the questions of the business model." Right. And then you can say, "All right, yeah, actually." Because we need a budget to work to. Of course. We need to understand what your intentions are.
If you don't know your own intentions, then how are we going to be able to design it? And then it's going to be a reflection on us. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So then the company's been here for some time now,
established, well -established. if I wanted to open a Space with you whether it's in Dubai and whether it's in Saudi Arabia Oman even the UK Yeah,
is your company able to do that? Are you able to work internationally? Yeah? Well, we work on several international projects We we work in Africa again. We're working in predominantly Dubai at the moment,
but we're stretching over into Africa we're doing at a few projects in India as well. So we are going over there. The only one that we haven't tackled yet is Saudi. We're just not ready for that one. We don't.
We've kind of all myself have always kind of wanted the market in Dubai and the UAE to grow and be more mature. And now he's getting to that point. I don't want to go into a market where we're not still in the same area where it's mature again.
So I'm really enjoying it at the moment. how mature the market is in the UAE. It still can be better, but the process is better, the people are better, the clients are better. Whereas before we were working in kind of different areas and it was just not really exciting,
but now we've got some really exciting projects and people know what they want. So we're kind of still focused on the UAE and we still wanna focus on the UAE because I think there's so much opportunity here.
I think the growth of how everyone's going, having Abu Dhabi racked. Raq, Dubai. So yes, we can do international projects, but predominantly we're more focused on this region and growing this region and educating people in this region.
Yeah. Well, what's going to say? Also, the UAE generally seems to be something like a hub, design hub, culinary hub. You name it, people really do come to the region. COP28 is happening as we speak,
so there's a lot going on. Yeah. But as a designer, you can design. from anywhere. Okay. Go see that space and understand it. As long as you go see the space first and understand it and understand the location,
there's so much information out there. We work with a data mining company that can provide a lot of demographics, target audience, and all sorts of information for us to understand how we're going to design that space and give the client the right information.
Now, off topic, you as the Creative Director, what do you you like designing more, F &B or offices? F &B always. We do a few offices,
but again, they're focused on hospitality design, so we get a specific type of office design. People who want a certain experience when clients come to their office. If it's your generic office,
we generally just turn it down, because again, I just don't get to go back to those spaces with a... a restaurant, the one good thing about that is information or feedback is hyperactive.
So we can open up a restaurant and we get feedback from the chef. We get feedback from the owner and we get feedback from the guest. So we learn very quickly from one project to the next project to the next project,
which is great, but you never go back to an office and be like, "Yeah, I've experienced this." Yeah, we maybe could move that light around. right like I can't see many designers going to sit and experience that their Offices that much or even allowed to go to sit there Whereas a restaurant you can go back and you can get hyper information very quickly hyper feedback of That table there's wobbly.
All right, how are we gonna fix that? What was that supplier? What how can we give feedback to our suppliers? How can we give feedback to this? How can we improve our industry so we can keep moving? forward on improving on everything?
Because you just have to go back once or twice. So even after a project is completed, you still are able to work with the clients or the owners and say, "Listen, I'm not too happy with this. How can we re -jig so on and so forth?" As a designer,
I don't think you're ever going to be happy with the end result. I think we're always willing to improve it. If you're not, then you might not be moving forward. I don't want to ask... ask you,
so chefs in particular, they're always hyper -vigilant on how to improve the experience of the customer and their dishes. - Yeah. - They really go into the detail,
how can I keep twisting this dish so it becomes a signature or becomes something which is not necessarily not replicated but it's incredibly delicious. - Yeah. - As a designer, is the designing industry sort of also all the time?
moving forward? Are you always having to look at what's going on in LA or in Australia or in Japan? Because I don't know about that. Yeah, I think you're always looking at what we do a lot of is foresight reports,
macro trends, micro trends. What's happening in the next three to five years, one to three years? What's happening in 10 years? So we understand what's going to be coming up in the future, not just on...
design trends, but on how the F &Bs change in, how people are bringing new ingredients in, all sorts of things. So we focus a lot on what's happening in the future instead of what's happening now,
or what's happened previously, whereas Dubai always used to be, "Hey, someone's done that over there, so we need to bring that here now," right? Whereas now we can say, "All right, people, we're focusing on this because this is going to happen in the next one to three years.
We can see it happening over there. We can see it happening over there." Yes. we're still not as ahead of those, but we can take it forward and we can be in line with that. We can start to catch up with other people.
With, yeah, I think that's kind of how we are always trying to push the boundaries, but every client's different. You can't dictate one sort of size. We'll never do another reef again because that's his project.
That's his other projects look nothing the same as reef or number. Nama Uso or HLK, neither of them look the same. We've just done Yvonne, that's a maximalism design,
we'll never do another one of those that look exactly like that with the same wallpaper, same design. So we have to kind of move forward. We take that and improve it to the next one and we learn our lessons from that.
It may not be that what's happening in the future, but it may be that we saw this one, and this thing here really worked well when you placed the POS system here. or you placed the bar in the middle Now the flow of that so that you can take and realize all right That's great or you know that this material didn't work because it was soaked up coffee So you never use that again.
So I think you learn every time on those ones and you push it Love that. So now you're on the foodie podcast. We've come to the quick fire questions So they're gonna be more Design,
let's see first question question sweet or salty sweet sweet Next one top three cuisines, I guess Indians always going to be my favorite because it's mine then Italian and then right now I'm a big fan of ramen.
Oh, yeah So always been a quite big fan, but now I'm just addicted to it. Yeah, and soupy dishes. Okay. Yeah favorite Favorite ingredient. One.
No, that one. I think they always change, don't they? They always change. What was the flavor of the month at the moment? I've got a really bad obsession with food on the basis of when I like something,
I just overeat it all the time. Right now, it is ramen and canoe. I'm going there every week. Okay. Once a week. I'm just there and they just know just sit me in the corner,
I'll eat, and then I'll go away. So I think, yeah, so I've always done just a weird obsession with when I like something, I'll just keep going back to it up until I just get fed up.
And look, I'm going to sidetrack a little bit. Us chefs, the question that we always get asked is, when you go to a restaurant, do you criticize the food? So I'm going to ask you, when you go to a restaurant,
do you have a look at the design? design? Oh, 100 % yeah, all the time, 100 % design. But again, it's also more the operations now. Right, right. So how are they doing something that is that working?
Can I adapt that to one of my designs? Or is something really good there that the guys are doing? Or again, service. Service is something that I'm looking at a lot. I don't know how to support on when we design is that like your display units or how.
do they operate, where do they put their menus and sort of things like that. Wow, okay. So we're more on how to take things and improve it, not just on criticising, just what works,
what doesn't work, how do I avoid this, how do I do this better? Okay. So then, who would you say are your top three food heroes and they don't necessarily need to be chefs?
Oh, okay. Okay, as I said, I kind of get quite hyper -obsessed at the point. So right now, Neha for Kanoya is a big fan of that one.
My auntie, so between my nan and my auntie, they both cook different dishes. So my nan is a vegan, she's been a vegan before it was called. So for the last 30 years,
so she only cooks vegetarian dishes, but my auntie, she always cooks the meat dishes. and she's a great cook and really good. So that one and then again. Third,
I guess I would have to say my wife, but I'll say my wife for her benefit because she will kind of like when you mentioned me. So she's the executive chef of the house?
Oh yeah, 100%. Anything I do is just over my shoulder. I want you to do this better. Oh no, I was just making a sandwich. I didn't need this. this because it says,
"Oh my God, I work." - What's the funniest restaurant or kitchen story that you've ever been involved in? - Oh,
lately one was lights. You talked about how the atmosphere of lights makes a massive difference of a project. We designed a restaurant, got all the lights in, and then I come back,
well, they called me up and they were like, "Oh, we just realized, "like, it's, it's really... dark in the restaurant. Um, like, can we do anything?" And I turned up and I was like, "You've taken all your lights down." And they're like, "Yeah,
we didn't like them." I was like, "But you've taken all your lights down and you're asking me why it's dark in here and why it's empty at the height of the level." And they're like, "Yeah, can we do anything?" I was like,
"No, because you've taken all the lights down. I don't know how to make light without a light fixture." So we went around in circles. circles, they couldn't understand why I was saying that. Another one saying,
they were like, "Oh, we want this light, but we hate the cable. "Can we do it without the cable?" I was like, "I can tell you know how to make a light float. "I can't do that, I'm sorry." But those things,
I do not, I'm not a god. I can't levitate things. But I can help you make it smaller, I guess. - Right. - Make it black. - Wow. - So yeah, so that was a good one.
We've had a few fun ones, and yeah. - What advice would you give to 16 -year -old Govind Shibley? - Oh, I guess everyone learns at a different pace.
I think everyone gets to a place at a different time. So like when I started university, I had a lot of younger people around me because they started straight out of high school and I was like,
"Oh, that's a cool one." and whereas I went into different educational programs before I got there. So yeah, I think everyone learns at a slower pace. I think it's okay to take your time. There's no rush,
be patient. I think this year has taught me that as well. Like I've been trying to chase on this building, this company, and I was like, actually, we're doing okay, let's just slow down and let's focus on the team on everything and be patient.
We'll get there when we were ready to get there. Yeah. Thank you. Then the final question. What advice would you give to chefs, restaurateurs on hospitality design?
On the design, I think the design is pretty simple, but I think it's the background. It's understanding your target audience more. It's understanding your demographic. It's understanding who you're catering for.
I think a lot of people create areas or designs in spaces that don't really suit. And I think that's a lot of things that we find like, understand your price point,
understand who you're going for, who your target audience, how are you going to develop that? Marketing, again, is a big thing in this region. How do we get the name out there? How do you build brand awareness? What USBs are you guys selling that we can hear of?
Find your USB and we can really kind of pick out that and hear out that within the brand. brand and find you a Source of kind of great market in great kind of focus and work with you to kind of develop those things.
Yeah, well So then on social media, how can we find other yourself or the company? Yeah at 2106 for Instagram WWR 2106 .com and then myself is just at Govinshepley.
Okay, cool So I'll put all of those in the show notes. Yeah, so for everyone to have Govinshepley .com a quick recap on what we've discussed, because it's been incredible. Your food memory, I think,
is phenomenal, because it's basically the same as the chefs. And I love that you're in the garden, growing up. Obviously your likes and dislikes, obviously the samosas with your brothers, I think that's really, really cool.
The education, you know, going into design, of course. And I love the fact that you started with something, it didn't fit you, but then you went into something unreal. and really took into an incredible journey.
Then I love the issues about creatives, tempers, feedback, chefs, and everybody learning from each other. I think that's really, really key. Obviously, the name behind the brand,
unfortunately, the desk has gone, but it's okay. And then working within the region and designing, I think we take it for granted. The amount of work that...
that you designers really put behind a brand and the thought, especially your company, I have to say I am genuinely super taken aback and impressed as to the level of detail that goes into the design and everything that you guys do.
And I have to say a massive thank you because you do play a huge part in the experience within F &B. So really a huge thank you. Thank you. Your quick fire questions, cuisines, sweet.
You're the first one I've had sweet for a long time. - I'm a sweet fiend, I'm not allowed to buy Harry Bows or anything like that. In fact, I took my daughter for a walk yesterday and I picked up a bag of sweets and just come back.
All in one evening. - No shame, exactly. So it's okay, it's okay. You have to say we recently had the head chef of Heston Blumenthal here, and he has a fetish from sweets and lollipops.
So don't worry, you're in good company. And apart from that, listen, the advice has been phenomenal. I've learned a huge deal. I know that the listeners are going to learn a massive amount, and really,
I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show. It's been fantastic. And really... Thanks for having us. I know where to come if I need any designs for my future restaurants. Thank you.
So, really, thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for having us. You know, I must say, I never... really thought about the interior design and how it can affect every single aspect of the guests' overall experience when dining.
This conversation really opened my eyes. I also really appreciate the time and effort it takes to make someone else's dreams a reality. For me, what I found particularly interesting is the level of meticulous detail that goes into creating and designing restaurants' spaces.
It's along the same lines of when chefs come in. into creating a new dish. I hope you managed to learn a few lessons and gave you all some extra food for thought. If you want to see more of what Govan and his team are doing,
I'll place everything in the show notes. A big thank you to JJ and the entire team at podcast now for producing the show. Don't forget that now you can watch us on YouTube and if you haven't already make sure to follow,
share and subscribe. subscribe. At the same time a massive thank you to the grilled podcast by the staff canteen for this incredible collaboration and finally for you the listener definitely for staying on and listening to the full show for your support every single follow every single share really does make a monumental impact so until next time food is memories.