The Chef JKP Podcast
The Chef JKP Podcast
Season 5 - Episode 4 - Tom Allen - Leading Dinner by Heston !
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This podcast episode explores Tom Allen’s culinary journey rooted in childhood experiences.
Raised in a family deeply connected to food and nature, he developed an early appreciation for farm-to-table practices.
Venturing into a professional kitchen as a teenager, he found a second family at a small hometown restaurant. He shares memories of impactful dishes, the evolution of the culinary scene, and working alongside Heston Blumenthal.
Tune in for insights into a culinary career shaped by family, mentors, and an unyielding passion for food.
ChefJKP and Tom discuss:
• Childhood connection to food and nature
• Early exposure to farm-to-table practices
• Culinary journey starting in a hometown restaurant
• Memories of impactful dishes
• Working alongside Heston Blumenthal
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- I remember eating it thinking, "Actually, that's really delicious." And I get that a lot more than when I ate it previously, when I had to stop eating it and then when I can't eat it, I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no came back from Melbourne, I remember I had lunch with my wife and we stayed in Bray in one of the little cottages and I remember eating the sound of the sea and I burst into tears. We've really fallen
in love with Dubai. It's a very dynamic city, very fast paced as I'm sure, you know, a very exciting place to be and I think from what has been achieved here in the past and where it is now and I think where it's going is very exciting and we're very proud and very patriotic.
and to be British and to be representing Heston at Atlanta Sorrel in Dubai but also we feel very proud to be here in Dubai right now at this time at this period. Be prepared to work very hard.
I would say be passionate. Again, surround yourself by good people. I think that's really important and I think also pick the right environment for you. I think that's really important.
I think our industry has changed. changing. I think the way kitchens are run is changing. And I think to make sure that you're in the right restaurant for you. I think so many people enter this industry and maybe have a bad experience and leave the industry,
which I find really sad. On the show this week, I talked to Tom Allen, the head chef who is spearheading one of the most iconic restaurants in the world,
"Dinner" by Heston Blumenvall. Blumenthal, which just so happens to be located at Atlantis the Royal Dubai. Tom is originally from England. He has had a remarkable career.
Most of it has been spent within the realms of the Heston restaurant empire. He discusses what it's like working at a small family -run place to then go into a three -star mission and establishment,
which at the time had been voted number one on the San Pellegrino 50 best list. We also delve deeply into the world of connection and food memories.
Tom gives some solid advice for anyone wishing to become a world -class chef. Listen out for a story involving kitchen spoons. Time to rock and roll.
Just before we begin, here is a small message from this week's guest. guest. Hello, my name is Tom Allen. I'm the head chef of Dinner Dubai. If you like the podcast, please make sure to follow,
share and subscribe. Welcome back to the Chef JKP podcast. And on the show today, we have The Chef de Cuisine from Dinner by Heston Blumenthal at Atlantis the Royal,
Tom Allen. Tom, welcome to the show. show. Good morning, James. Thank you very much for inviting us along. Absolutely, my pleasure. So, first things first, chief. First ever or favorite food memory as a child?
I would say, I have to say, I think I was three years old. We were in Torquay with my, with my mom and dad and my older sister. And my parents didn't have much money. We went on holiday and I remember being in the harbor.
Obviously I was three years old, I don't remember a great deal about it. But what I do remember is my parents ordered a jacket potato from one of those little stands that people have on the side of the seafront.
I think we had baked beans and cheese on it and butter. And I remember the flavor, I remember the smell, I remember where we were sat, it was just smelled like jacket potato. I like jacket potato that's in the oven and roasted in the oven,
baked in the oven should I say, not the cheap ones. that my mum used to do in the microwave and then finish them in the oven But I that you know you smell the skin and as I say three years old I don't really remember a great deal of what was going on but that connection with the smell and I think being With my mum and dad feeling safe and loved but just yeah Just just being there and I remember the boats and
the lights and lots of music But so I'd say jacket potato. Yeah, so it's all key is a bit of place to go on vacation in England when people don't know it. And also seaside town,
really beautiful, lots of crazy seagulls everywhere. But yeah, so jacket potato is a nice one. It's the first we've ever had on the show, I have to say. So then growing up,
what were the types of food that you had, were you a fussy kid or did you eat anything? - No, I wasn't particularly fussy. I think I would say my mum,
she was a stay -at -home mum, which is a full -time job. I'm a parent now and when you hear people say full -time, stay -at -home mum, it's a full -time job. So she used to do a lot of home cooking. My dad used to grow a lot of vegetables in the garden.
He had an allotment and they moved and got a larger garden. He used to grow, he was always putting in the garden and I think that was quite normal for that generation. He used to grow lots of vegetables. fruit and vegetables So we always had that connection with food and nature and then I think as a child You know the smells that the home cooking,
you know, my Mr. Cook a lot She would do lots of baking with us and I think just kind of have that respect for food You know you you grow vegetables and you see it kind of go from a seed to a plant to a vegetable or a fruit appearing So were you involved a lot with when your father was doing the yeah He was he would all that kind of stuff?
Yeah, we'd go out, you'd do a little bit of the fun things and then get bored and then go in and get on the Nintendo. But yeah, I was and then obviously kind of harvesting,
picking and digging and then preparing and cooking. So when I look back on it, I didn't realise it at the time. But I think that was, it was quite instrumental to kind of...
of ingrain in that in us as children. That's fantastic. That's such a young age that you privy to all of those experiences. And I think as an adult and a parent, I look back on it as well.
And I think I appreciate it and I respect what they were doing. I think they were doing it because that was probably what they were shown. And yeah, I think it doesn't happen so much these days.
I think it's quite rare. We're in a slightly different era. but really important. - So then during your sort of early teenager years,
when was your first sort of foray into going into professional kitchen? Did you always want to be a chef, or what was the thing that led you to go into the kitchen? - So I don't think it was,
I always wanted to be a chef. I always had a really kind of deep connection with food, and food was... it was always about getting the family together and and sitting down and kind of having a chat deep you know downloading the day and and talking different things but I think you know obviously my mum my mum worked in you a little bit part -time in the industry and I think I kind of got drawn into it that way and
then just started started cooking went to college and then got a job in a small restaurant in Cheltenham which is my hometown in the Cotswolds called called Lumiere. And then I think connected with,
it was a husband and wife restaurateurs. He was from Canada, she was from UK and traveled. And it was almost like a second family. It was very small. It was a four, two in the kitchen, two in the front house.
And I think at that age, I think I was 19, 20, and I think it was a very impressionable age, you know, and I think learning about life and having a family. to deal with certain situations,
learning about the world and travel and food. And I think it just went from there and then evolved on to having a connection and meeting Ashley Palmer -Watts and then obviously Heston to the Fat Duck.
And I've spent a long time at the Fat Duck. So before we get to Heston, Ashley and the Fat Duck, when you were at college, I want to just understand from your point of view, did you have a different path as in did you want to do something else?
Or was it straight into catering college? I went straight into catering college. I was You know I kind of stood out to you know to I think my lecturers from other Class members, I guess it was almost like an extension of school I think college has evolved a lot since then as well when I look back on it I think it was quite a rundown college and obviously I went to college thinking I was doing the right thing by
getting qualifications And I don't ever regret I don't regret anything in life, but I don't regret my college years But when I look back on I think how college has evolved in the last 20 years I think it's it's amazing how it's evolved and I think it's more along the lines of what you'd expect right from going to college But it got me to it's all part of the journey.
Yeah, I got me to where I am now So so then from college you worked at Lumiere, which is this really beautiful Restaurant at one star now it is OneStar now,
yeah. So tell me about those experiences, because that must have also been quite an eye -opener for you. It was. It was a 32 -cover restaurant, two in the kitchen,
two in the front of house, and it was only open for dinner. And Jeff Chapman, who was the chef, Patron, he was almost like a second dad slash big brother, more big brother.
And we used to... have lots of fun. We used to mess around quite a lot. And we would take the mick out of everyone that walks through the kitchen door and have a bit of banter. And we would just cook honest food.
It was tasty. It was just really party food. And I think that was my early years of learning how to put flavours together and working with quite unique ingredients.
And then yeah, going from there. So four years. Four years. Because also, gentlemen, it was quite a... that sort of part of england is quite a foodie sort of area at the same time if i remember correctly you also had a two star.
The shampoos yeah david who was also a legend yeah is a legend in the industry yeah so you must have learned quite substantial amount in those four years absolutely i did and obviously the connection with working at lumiere was was some through actually palm of warts.
who's a great friend of mine. So he worked for Lin and Jeff in their previous restaurant in Dorset. So that was how I connected with Lin and Jeff and then obviously connected with Ashley. And that was my route to the Fat Duck. So Ashley, I think was kind of their equivalent of me in their previous restaurant.
So I used to hear a lot about the Fat Duck and what they were doing in the early years. And I remember you were thinking, "That sounds pretty interesting." And I'd like to go see what that's about. So then when did you take the leap to actually go into the Fat Duck?
So I took the leap. to the Fat Duck. It was February the 1st, 2005. Okay. So a long time ago, so I spent four years at Lumiere and then got them through the busy period, festive period, and then I went up to the Fat Duck and I did my trial.
I had a week kind of trial and it was... Unpaid, right? Unpaid. It was... Do you know what? It was actually paid. It was paid. Yeah, sorry. It was... This is your section.
Tyce, who is a Danish chef, he's training you on the section. section. He goes on holiday in a week. You've got a week to get this down. Enjoy. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously, I'd gone from a little 32 -cover restaurant, kind of having, you know,
it was quite relaxed. But, you know, open for dinner to, I think, the Fat Duck. The previous previous year had received three Michelin stars. Yes. A couple of months after I started, it was voted number one in the world in the top 50 San Pellegrino.
So it was it was like it was just monstrous. It was monstrous. And, yeah, I didn't really know what hit. me to be honest to you lunch and dinner for restaurant 42 covers for lunch 42 covers for dinner three menus days a week six days a week six days a week,
okay six days a week and But you get two days off two days off and then five days working and I remember it was yeah It was pretty intense. I think I lost I lost a couple of couple of kilos in the first first couple of weeks and Obviously moving away from home.
It was really tough being away from my girlfriend girlfriend. And it was literally single swim. Okay, an amazing team of people, you know, to work at a three mission star level. So I was going to say, I mean, like, look, at the time, Lumiere, incredible,
beautiful restaurant. But to go from that sort of homely comfort, safe, fantastic food, with your big brother family around, to then go into essentially the number one best restaurant in the world at the time.
Yeah. I mean, that must have just been such a huge culture shock for you. - It was massive. It was just not only lunch, dinner, but just the level,
the attention to detail. - The thought process then as well, because they were just constantly pushing and pushing and pushing all the time. - Absolutely, they were. When I think about it, you look back and you see high -performance sports teams at their peak and you have,
an amazing team of players and they learn to play together and do amazing things. It was the same back then in the kitchen with the team that we had at that time. Heston was in the kitchen on the past daily,
had a real presence, an amazing person, but he had a presence in the kitchen and you wanted to perform every day at the highest level and not make mistakes. You make mistakes and as we're human beings we do.
How could you not in a place like that? so look when you first arrived then so let's set the scene you're not only in the fat duck in Bray Bray also has another three star mission in restaurant it does in the water side the water side so for a little village it's really incredible because this is the place where everybody goes to eat so then as a chef how many kitchens did the fat duck have at that time because
you have the main sort of kitchen where you do the service, right? - Yeah. - Did they have the development kitchen at that time? - It was being formed when I arrived. So when I arrived,
it was a very tiny kitchen. It probably surface area wasn't a great deal bigger than the room we're sitting in now. - Right. - A very awkward shape. It's obviously a grade two listed building. So you didn't build a kitchen,
you put it in the space and you know, fitted the kitchen into that space. - Hope for the best. - So it wasn't. wasn't overly efficient. - Right. - But when I look back on what we're achieving as a team, how many plates left the pass,
how little space you had, we used to have, I think it was eight or nine garden sheds lined up in a row in the cottage garden at the back. - And that was for what? - That was for fridges,
freezers, vac -pack machine, dry stalls, linen room, change that we had a... I think it was shed eight, shed eight or shed nine. It was a slightly bigger shed. That was our changing room. And I remember in the winter getting changed and it was pretty,
and then it was, you know, we'd put an electric fan in there and that was luxury, have an electric fan in the shed. But obviously, I think when you look back on it now from health and safety point of view, that probably wouldn't go down particularly well.
Right. And it's very different now. But back then, I think that was part of the charm that you had this restaurant pushing the boundaries and, you know, doing amazing things. And so how big was it? the brigade at that time then?
- I think the brigade, I remember looking back on, we used to do Secret Santa every year with Heston. We would, it was amazing, we'd shut for two weeks, we would do Christmas Eve service,
or no, a couple of days before Christmas Eve, we'd do service, we'd do lunch service and we'd literally, deep clean, shut down and we would go on holiday for like two and a half weeks over Christmas and New Year, which was unheard of. So we kind of worked through a busy December to get to that where every month was,
every, every year, we'd do, we'd do, we'd do, we'd do, month Was like December, but we'd we'd worked through and We would close and to have that time to go back and recharge and go on some travels and see your family was phenomenal And then we would do secret Santa in the Heinz head.
He obviously took over the Heinz head in 2005 so we'd go into the Vickers room and I Remember every year that I was there every year we'd get you know more and more in the team and eventually we grew out the Vickers room We had to go to the top floor and we do Secret Santa and Hesse would give us all a nice present a personalized present and Secret Santa was quite inappropriate back then as well Probably couldn't
talk about some of the things that were presented But it was just that that real togetherness and that it sounds really cliche, but family it was like a It's like a cult. It was like a family cult.
It was it was incredible But do you know what I'm not surprised because I remember back then Heston literally just exploded, compared to the rest of the chefs that were in the scene.
His level of thinking, the detail on the plates, the molecular gastronomy part of things. It was just another two or three levels.
And the fact that that year, as you said, number one best restaurant in the world, it really put him in the limelight. And I remember he was. constantly on TV The way he was thinking like it was just phenomenal.
It was next level and When I look back on those early dishes that when I first started the fat duck in 2005 2005 2006 2007 for me those dishes obviously that they have a real place in my heart But they were so far ahead of their time.
I think they'd be pretty relevant now. Yeah, which they are You know, they bring old dishes back and And so much table side preparation, like bacon and eggs, ice cream, with the snail porridge, sound of the sea,
all these incredible dishes. Sound of the sea, I remember it was a dish. I remember when we first started at the Fanduck, he told everyone to come in and eat and experience it, which I'd never experienced before. And I thought it was brilliant. So you truly understand why you're doing what you do and to the level,
the detail. And I remember eating with my wife, eating the sound of the sea, a girlfriend at the time, the sound of the sea. And we... just put it on off the, it was pretty out there dish. You had the shell, you had this plate of food that had edible sand and different seafood on there and different herbs,
sea, sea veg. I remember eating it. I had to stop eating it because it made me gag, the crunching of the sand and listening to, you know, what was going on. And as you talked about when we were talking about the jacket potato memory earlier,
the seagulls flying around in the harbour, I remember thinking I've got to stop eating this. And I kind of pushed it around the plate. plate and it hadn't long been on the menu. And I remember eating it a few years later after it had been refined slightly.
It was just before the fat duck migrated to Melbourne for a period of time when they then regenerated the fat duck and refurbished it. I remember eating it thinking, "Actually, that's really delicious." And I get that a lot more than when I ate it previously,
when I had to stop eating it. And then when they came back from Melbourne, I remember I had lunch with my wife and we stayed in Bray in one of the little cottages. And I remember... eating the sound of the sea and I burst into tears.
And I remember eating the dish, I remember the sommelier, Melania, she came up to the table and pulled me some sake, which is what they paired with the dish. It worked amazingly well. And I remember I just had tears streaming down my face and my wife blessed her,
she held my hand and kind of looked at me, bit her bottom lip. And I remember the emotions that that dish brought to me were, it was incredible. And that's the first thing. time that's ever happened with a dish.
And I was thinking about being in Torquay as a child, walking on the beach, going to get popcorn and a little rubber dinghy. I remember being on the beach with my girlfriend at the time in Greece in our early years and then more,
you know, kind of recently been on the beach with my wife and daughters and my parents and just having that feeling of being content and and nostalgia and it's just powerful and the emotions that it evoked and you know We've had people in the in the restaurant that when I go out to the table speak with them That they're in tears and to be able to connect with people through food in that way I think is so powerful
That's the thing is that when you even have his first book Heston's first book. Yeah. Yeah You open it and it's like an encyclopedia and in the middle of the book It's this huge drawing of Heston's head.
Yeah And inside is all the flavor memories and components. And I just think like everyone is locked onto that at some point somehow. And that's how we all connect.
And I agree because it is such a powerful thing to connect someone through food. So I was working for, I think, Philip Howard at the time at the Square in Mayfair,
two -star. And the food was really, really powerful. phenomenal at the square. - He's a legend. - He's absolutely, he's incredible. But then when Heston is doing all this kind of stuff and you're talking about gels and spherification and foams,
I mean, it was phenomenal. Now, I just wanted to ask you, how many, during the height of the time at the Fat Duck, how many dishes were on the menu, on the tasting menu? - I think it was,
I think the most it ever got to, and when we say dishes, it could be, you know, a little palate cleanser, a little nitro. - Yes, yes, yes, yes. Even the whiskeys, right? - Yeah, the whiskey wine comes, I think at one point it got to 21.
I think normally it was around 19. - Right, and so you had, how many covers, if you remind me? - 40, well it started, it was a 48, and then as he went on and his profile grew,
and I think we re -mapped the restaurants that it sat 42, and I think that was so that. that it wouldn't, you know, encroaching on people's dining experience. And obviously,
as you said, the OS and either tableside dining, I think to get the trolleys through the restaurant properly and the sweet shop. Because that's a huge amount of courses if you have 42 covers and basically 21 courses.
I think, yeah, as I said earlier with the kitchen, I think, I think at one point we worked out as 1 ,200 plates in the service. And obviously, all those plates need to go through. I mean, the pass was probably about a meter and a half long. and people used to come up.
It was really lovely. People used to come up to the kitchen and look in the kitchen and like, have you got another kitchen? Said, no, this is the kitchen. And it's almost like we're like in this little box and people would look at like when you're at the zoo and people looking at like,
hey, you're doing a great job. Thanks very much. It was pretty full on and lots of bending and being as efficient as you can. And I remember you used to try and obviously to get to the walk -in fridge and the freezer.
So it was a fridge that went into the freezer. freezer, so you had to go through pastry. So you're obviously finishing service, you clean down, you then start prepping and you're like, oh, my salmon's in the fridge,
and then you've got to get through, like it's like a train carriage, and then you've got Jockey there, who's in the middle of service, not wanting to let you through, made it a little bit difficult. So you had to even be organized with what you had in the back of your service fridge so that you could then start to prep after service.
Well, pastry services still going on. Wow. Yeah, it was pretty. intense. Then obviously that grew. We had the Heston took over the Heinz Head and I think with that came like an external building, which then became the prep house and then the lab and obviously at the time reservations and Heston's office,
which he wasn't actually in a great deal. And then it kind of got taken over as chocolate room and just as it grew and the menu kind of developed. Because it was just incredible. Just that whole time.
Then when he took over the pub. and it had a mission in staff. But when Heston was at the Fat Duck on the pass during service, because we all know he's self -taught,
right? But during that time, 2005, 2007 onwards, how was he on the pass? Because he commanded it well, he knew what was going on. He was very sharp.
He knew what was going on in the dining room. Yeah, he was incredible. incredible. And we used to have a lot of laugh and a lot of banter and we used to kind of play jokes on other chefs.
- As you do in all kitchens. - Yeah, as you do. And that kind of helps get you through the day. But no, he was phenomenal. He was, you know, how he did what he did. And then as you say,
when he started to grow and his profile grew, I remember he went in for back surgery just before Christmas. I think he had Christmas with his family. And then, as you say, it started. to take off and then we saw less of him daily and then he would come in for old services and then he'd be there without fail every Sunday and we used to love working Sunday and Sunday was a day that you weren't getting bothered from
admin and all the office and he used to come in and he'd stand and prep with us and we talk about dishes and development and ideas as you say that book and in the fact that I cook when you undo the, that is his brain.
I mean, he's a million miles an hour. I think you know. a level that most people don't achieve. And, you know, when you have a conversation with him, you know, I'll call him or have a team's call and have a list of things to go through with him.
And half an hour later, we've not talked about anything on the list and we've talked about quantum physics and we've talked about black holes. And we've talked about, you know,
different restaurants and different approaches. And yeah, and then you're like, I need before you go, I need. to talk to you "about these points." - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, so yeah,
he was amazing. - So then with your relationship with Ashley Palmer Watts, who at the time was the right hand of Heston, tell me about how you guys started to develop dinner by Heston Blumenthal.
- So yeah, so I think Heston kind of conceptualized dinner a few years before. And obviously, they started to grow. work on it. He had a real fascination with British food history and I think he's very patriotic and very proud to be British.
Because he had this most amazing television show. He did, yeah, in search of perfection and then it went on to the historical feast. And it was so fascinating to see all these experiences that he was doing and it was all about the food history in the UK.
Yeah and obviously, you know, I think kitchens, high -level kitchens at the that time, I think went to setting up development kitchens. And I think when you look at it, I think trying to be creative and trying to operate a restaurant at the same time is very difficult,
especially in a place, you know, like the Fat Duck where space is very limited. So I think to set up a development kitchen and get a group of people who are connected to the restaurant, I think that's really important that you have chefs developing dishes and food that understand the concept and what they're developing.
developing dishes for I think is really important So you have that crossover of the operation and obviously you need to be creative It's a very different environment to being in a kitchen and having the stress of getting ready for service and obviously, you know Cooking throughout service.
It's a very different environment very different mindset and it's not easy You know to be creative to come up with the new meat fruit or the new tipsy cake or you know You've gone to the fact that sound of the sea or bacon egg ice cream It's to come up with those dishes dishes where they're kind of one -off dishes.
But it's you've got to continue to keep creating and keep the flow going and adapting and changing is really important. So would you say the development of that particular restaurant food -wise was two,
three, four years? It was. So I moved on to work with Ashley with dinner and Heston. And we had a few people from the Fat Duck that would help out a few of the chefs. It was probably two years.
before. So in the development kitchen, I remember having Taysons with all of the senior members of staff from the Manning Oriental would come to Bray, they'd come out of the city, come to this little village, Bray, and we would cook 10 dishes and present it to them,
talk to them about the dish. Each dish has a story as well, which is, you know, I think really important, and that's what dinner is. So, Heston and the team work with, you know, food historians, they work with creators of music.
museums, they work with the British Library, so we would go probably two times a year, quite deep into the British Library. To a super extensive. Yeah, massively so. So, you know, you have books,
you present it with books that are from the 13th century, which you literally need to translate. People, back then, they didn't really, not many people could write. It was all kind of verbal and phonetically writing,
so recipes were passed down from generations, generations. generation, cooks of households. And then as the centres went by, people were exploring the world, you would get ingredients and species of animals that would come back on adventures that weren't indigenous to Great Britain.
And then the food scene would change. You'd have one meal of the day because food wasn't very available. People used to eat very plain, quite simple food, and spices and aromatics were not necessarily there for flavour.
to enhance the dish, but to mask the flavor of maybe some rotten meat or some vegetables that have passed their best. And then people would go into, we researched when you would eat your breakfast,
you'd have a snack before lunch, then you'd have lunch, then you'd have afternoon tea, and then you'd have dinner. So it was when people would evolve to use cutlery rather than a piece of bread and a spoon. So it's looking at multi -courses of Monarchs,
Kings and Queens. queens, they would have large banquets where tables were laid out with literally hundreds of dishes in some cases. So to see that evolving and then obviously, to see how we adapt that to a restaurant.
And like I say, it's taking dishes from what we do at dinner. We take dishes from in the past. We apply Hessens thinking, the modern techniques and the cooking techniques that we have and great supply lines as well,
get in the best ingredients we can. - Wow. then to reimagine and recreate dishes that that were served, you know, in the past, and maybe have been forgotten about and they're in archive somewhere and bringing those back to life.
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Now back to the episode. So when you first opened, if you cast your mind back, dinner once, I remember sort of six months before you guys opened,
there was a huge buzz. Not just in London, but globally about this restaurant, dinner by Heston. He'd done all the TV, so the media was hot. Yep. You were in a prime location.
Yeah. Yeah. - The kitchen is sort of semi, I mean, it's in the middle of the room, so all the diners can see all of the chefs what you're doing. It's a much larger setup than the Fat Duck.
I think it was, how many covers, 120? Something like that. - So when we first set up dinner in London, we were doing 170 for dinner. - Okay. - And 130 for lunch.
- Right. - We couldn't keep up with-- - And that was seven days a week, right? - Seven days a week. 365 days a year. - Like a factory, just full on. - It was, yeah. So 300 covers a day we were doing. - Wow. - It was a monster. - So when you first opened to the chefs,
the global press, how was the restaurant sort of perceived? - I think it was taken to very well. It was hugely successful.
And as you say, I think Heston was, you know, one of the most successful chefs in the world. this was his next big venture out of, you know, what was his Fat Duck Empire. Obviously, it was spearheaded by Ash. Ash built an amazing team of people to obviously be able to operate the restaurant from the kitchen side and the front house.
But it was phenomenal. As you say, the location, Knightsbridge, you know, within the Mandarin Oriental, opposite Harvey Nichols, you know, Harrods just down the road. It was a really beautiful part of London, Hyde Park,
you know, you walk in. in through a very bustling street and then you go through the hotel, beautiful hotel. And then you've got this most amazing view of Hyde Park and the Queen's Guards, walking past the restaurant,
marching past twice a day for changing guards, a beautiful show kitchen, chefs who were very well turned out, trained very well to be able to operate at that level. And when we set the restaurant up,
we weren't expecting the level of success that the restaurant had. I think, yeah, we knew that... you know, it was very different, you know, it was 300 covers a day. We knew that we could, you know, we could serve some tasty food.
We planned it, you know, a year and a half, two years beforehand, you know, developed all the dishes, written the recipes, all the costumes, all the health and safety side of it. And then to go live, it was, it was pretty busy.
We gained a mission to start within our first year of operation, which was, it was amazing. And then in our second year, yeah, we rewarded the second mission style, which we never thought was possible. And we were never,
we're never working towards that. Especially for the size of the operation, you know, like it's so big. Yeah. It's a dinner. I always say, and I mean this in a respectful way, in a humble way, but it kind of defies the restaurant scene in the sense that you're working at a high level,
but you're cooking high numbers as well, high volume as well. So it's not easy. It's not easy. To turn out food, which is so meticulous, so thought provoking. -provoking, for it to be consistent.
That's it. And that's consistent. Consistency is the key. If Ashley was there on a Saturday night, running the pass, or if I was there, or one of the other sous chefs were there, it had to be the same. And that was, I think,
what we were able to do from what we learned at the Fat Duck, consistency and control. It's very measured, very procedural -led. There was a recipe for every single thing that we cooked, whether it was a sauce,
a puree. It was way to the grand, you know, the soul. the cream, the butter, everything. You know, in my early days at the Fat Duck, I remember everyone, people would say, "Pastry is a science. Everything has to be weighed." And I remember Heston was saying,
"Well, if pastry is a science, why shouldn't making a sauce or making a puree or making a risotto, why shouldn't that be a science as well in terms of controlling the amounts and the ingredients and the weights and the measures?" Obviously,
through the year, things change through seasons and variables change. But then, you need to, as a chef, you need to control the variables. Yeah, so it was very consistent. I think that was what we were able to do very well at dinner.
And we do do, to this day, very well at dinner, is there's control measures. And we've evolved as in the last 12 years that dinner's been operational. We never stand still. We do what we do,
but we always look to get better and to improve and become more efficient and adapt, I think, as time's gone by as well. I think you could was quite a big thing for the world.
And I think how we perceive dining, how we have to build the team, how we operate. So it's not about kind of wrestling on the laurels, it's about trying to keep pushing forward and evolving. So talking about pushing forward and evolving,
of course, dinner was in Melbourne. Yeah. And now it's in Dubai in one of the most iconic locations in the world. world. Yeah. When was the first sort of thought between yourself,
Ashley and Heston, that you would come out here and have a restaurant in this place? Well, I remember talks of it in probably 2017. I remember hearing talks.
We looked at other locations as well, which weren't quite right. But I remember hearing about Dubai and thinking, "That sounds exciting." And I think that the project, Alanta -Sarou, it... with a very complicated project.
It was, I think had many kind of opening dates. I think just where the build was so complicated. And then throwing as we talk about COVID in the mix as well, which no one saw coming. So yeah,
I remember, I remember them talking about, you're coming to Dubai and it's a very exciting city. And then so I was never supposed to come to Dubai. That obviously came off the back of, you know, just after COVID,
we had a team set and obviously with COVID, we had a team set. up. We had a head chef who had been working at dinner for many number of years, started at the Fat Duck as well. And then we had the front house, the general manager and neither of those,
because of what happened with staggered start dates and obviously COVID, neither of those actually came to Dubai. It was actually myself and John White, the current general manager who we both worked with each other and with each other and did a London for the last 10 years.
And we were trying to build a team and then. I remember from being in Bray, trying to recruit, and I'm thinking, this is gonna be impossible to try and externally recruit someone to take this role, who has the DNA,
the knowledge of, you know, Heston, the fat duck and dinner. And I remember just thinking, I remember having a conversation with my wife walking down the Great Windsor Park near Windsor Castle,
thinking, yeah, we could do this. This could be a really exciting opportunity. So, So we decided to do it. We had about a three month period to finish things up in the UK and rent a house out and sell all of our belongings and say bye to everyone,
leave the team in London as set up as they could be, obviously off the back of COVID, kind of, you know, it was a difficult period for the industry. - Very tricky time, very difficult time. - Yeah. So, you know, dinner is very personal to me.
It's so ensuring that the team were fully set for myself. and John to exit and then coming over here, integrating ourselves, firstly family, making sure my family was set as a big priority with school and just being safe and set and then obviously getting established in Elantus,
getting established in Dubai which is a phenomenal place. We've really fallen in love with Dubai, it's a very dynamic city, very fast paced as I'm sure you know. a very exciting place to be.
And I think from what has been achieved here in the past and where it is now, and I think where it's going is very exciting. And we're very proud and very patriotic and to be British and to be representing Heston at Atlanta,
Sarul in Dubai. But also we feel very proud to be here in Dubai right now at this time, at this period and what's going on. So yeah, it was a big move and just to learn you know,
Dubai is a very different place to London, to what Melbourne was. And I think just staying true to what we are and representing the brand and representing Heston, but also adapting to the market here and keeping dinner what it is,
but also making some changes just so that it's slightly different as well. That bloodline of Heston is 100 % in that restaurant at Atlantis of the Royal,
right? Yeah. - Yeah. - 'Cause you've got the signature dishes, of course, but it has to have, the restaurant itself must have a completely different character per se than what you have in London,
right? - It does, it's a very different, aesthetically, it's very different. As we talked about Hyde Park, we talked about, you know, it's in a Victorian property in the Mandino rental, and then you come to Dina Dubai,
which is within Atlantis of the Royal, which is a stunning building. building. Phenomenal place. You know, I drive out every night and I look up at it and I have to kind of bend down in my car to look up and it's lit up and it's beautiful on the palm,
which is iconic. And you walk into the restaurant, it's a very different feel, but you know you're in a dinner. You walk through, there's a scent that has been made to represent what dinner is.
So you walk through this little room as you come out of a very bright and airy lobby and then you walk into a very dark room. room, you kind of get desensitized, and then the sliding door opens and you walk into dinner. You've got a stunning wine cellar on the left hand side,
which I think we have about 1 ,200 labels and about 6 ,000 bottles, which is really incredible. We have a very large pineapple in the restaurant, two meter high pineapple, which links into one of the iconic desserts that we serve,
the tipsy cake, which I've eaten far too many of those in the last 12 years, and it's really delicious. And it's really not good for the waistline. But for me, it's comfort food is absolute best. And then that pineapple has a very intricate mechanism of cogs kind of going around.
So Heston has a real fascination with time and motion. So the cogs are going around. So he wanted people to come into the restaurant, have an idea that time is passing by, but not be too much on their phones and looking at their watches.
He wants them to get immersed in the experience. So this huge pineapple, which which was designed by Seymour Powell in the UK, which Hessem has worked with for the last, I think 18 years. He's done lots of work for the fact that sweet shop trolley and the ice cream,
liquid nitrogen ice cream trolley as well. So that is pretty iconic to when you walk in the restaurant and it powers as a shaft that runs the length of the restaurant. It powers the pineapples on our spit roast, which is a real focal point.
You look through the show kitchen, you look at the pineapples roasting that basted for about four and a half years. half hours with a smoked caramel. And then they get served with the tips of cake. We have the show kitchen, which is very, it's just,
we have a stunning kitchen. It's a beautiful kitchen. And then we have a very beautiful dining room with a view of the skyline of the marina, which in the daytime is beautiful. And then the nighttime,
it just lights up. - Wow. - You see, you see across the palm. Yeah, so it's very beautiful. We feel very privileged and very honored. that here we have a stunning restaurant within an iconic hotel,
which is just incredible. As I say, we feel so privileged to be part of this right now in Dubai. Well, Dubai is evolving and changing,
which I know you're very aware of the changes, more so than myself. So look, one thing I was particularly interested in is that you're obviously led and trained brigades in the UK.
- Yep. - And then here. What would you say has been your biggest challenge transferring from obviously the UK you've spent a considerable amount of time there learning as well as being a leader to then coming to the Middle East.
What would you say has been the biggest challenge? - I'd say the biggest challenge probably would be, and challenge is a... positive as well, device very multicultural. We have,
I think we have 18 different nationalities in our brigade, which I'm really proud of when we were interviewing the team. We spent lots of time interviewing and talking to different candidates and those candidates didn't necessarily need to have Michelin experience to get the job.
It was about connecting with them and I think, you know, if they've got the right attitude, the right mindset and mentality and we'd have a series of questions that we'd ask them if they answer them in a certain way and to provoke you know other questions as well you know i with the team as a leader i don't just want to know about what they do in work i want to know about what they do away from work you know
what they do on the days off and how they're connected with their family and friends and you know i think it ties into how they are as people and kind of get the idea of how they all operate in the kitchen so i think i think with it being so so multicultural,
I think learning not how you want to be treated, but how others want to be treated, I think that's really important. And everyone has a different story of why they're doing what they do. And I think it's kind of tapping into that.
And everyone needs a different approach of management. That's down to us as leaders to kind of find out what that is. And having that family feel within our team and the front house team as well.
You know, John and I, we have a great deal of cohesiveness. We have a lot of fun, but we're very serious. And I think it's just getting that team feeling and that everyone is there for a different reason,
but we're all connected through food and what we're doing. So I'd say that's been not tricky, but it's been quite refreshing as well to learn. You know, I learn, I learn from everyone and everyone, you know, we all learn from each other.
But also I think at a time where I think with the buy, I think a lot of people are here for quite a short period. of time. So I think it's trying to get the best out of people in that time frame and hopefully making them feel that they want to be here for longer than maybe they planned in the beginning.
And that only happens by getting that cohesive feeling that family, we're looking at each other, we've got each other's backs and hopefully they want to stick around for a long time and to be part of what we're doing.
So yeah, I would say that's probably been the most tricky thing. You're not the first one. one to say that. It's about getting those nationalities all under one umbrella and moving forward towards one goal.
Yeah. And I think at a time, I think this time as well, I think our industry is is changing slightly and it's changing for the better. You know, people don't want to, you know, I think probably if we look back on it,
you know, back in our day, you know, working 16, 18 hours a day, we did it and we're so dedicated. and committed to doing that And we didn't really think about it too much.
We just did it. Yeah, but I think also I think people don't want to work 16 hours to 18 hours a day, and I think that's a good thing You know, I think the balance of life. I think um,
you know, it's not all about working. I think it's it's about working hard working smart being efficient and I think having a balance in life and you know spending time with family and friends and traveling and doing nice things.
So I think it's a good thing that people aren't wanting to work those long hours under the pressure and the stress, but it also puts pressure on us as operators and business models because I think there's a set price that people will come and pay for an experience.
And obviously, if you could have two teams, that would be great, but that's not the reality. So it's about trying to be a trying to be clever, and trying to change the industry as well, but do it in a good way.
So yeah, I think it's a good thing. - Yeah. - I think it's a good thing. - No, absolutely. And as you quite rightly mentioned, in the UK, now there are several Michelin -starred restaurants and varied establishments that are now going to four days a week,
which is fantastic. - Yeah, we were doing that probably 10 years ago. Three days off. - Huge difference. difference, it's massive. - I remember in one of the chefs' meeting, we had a meeting, right, we can work, you can do five days and have two days off.
Those five days can be five, 10, 12 hour days, or we can come in, we can do 16 hours, but you can get three days off. And I remember it was unanimous, the team. So in London,
it was slightly different in here because we just opened for dinner, but in London, it was lunch and dinner. And to get that continuity, you kind of need the same team for that. lunch and dinner. And we tried getting different, we tried everything. But yeah,
it's, you have one day sleep and you've got two days to enjoy yourself and yeah, that's it. So yeah, it's, it's, it's really hard. It's not, it's not easy. It's really not easy.
But it's changing for the better. It is changing. Absolutely. And it needs to change. It absolutely needs to change. But I think there's a, there's a bigger thing that needs to change. But what that is, I don't think.
- We'll get there. - We will get there. Keep pushing, small changes. - Now, as you know, you're on a Chef Foodie podcast and we've come to the quickfire questions. - Okay. - All right. So first question is,
what's the meal that changed your life? - Do you know what I think I would have to say when I ate at the Fat Duck? I think I've been working at the Fat Duck for a couple of months.
and I got a night off and I was able to go and eat and it blew my mind. I think I'd struggled with the change from going from a very small restaurant to obviously the Fat Duck and it was pretty touch -and -go a couple of times where I was gonna make it and I remember sitting there with my girlfriend,
wife, now and I remember I'd never experienced anything like that before and it blew my mind that the flavours, the theatre side of it, the authenticity, I'd never tasted food like that.
that. So I'd say fact doc. - Okay, top three culinary heroes. - Top three culinary heroes, I have to say Heston. And obviously, from his story of just coming from nowhere and just a vision and questioning everything,
being relentless, not compliant of what everyone else is doing and pushing the boundaries. And, you know, I have to say Heston. And I have a, obviously a very personal relationship with him and a very professional relationship as well.
So he has a real place in my heart. - And the other two? - I would say, I think Thomas Keller at that time, I think, yeah, absolutely, yeah. And I've never eaten. Actually,
I have eaten in per se when I got engaged. Sure, I'm thinking French laundry. Yeah, I ate in per se the day I got engaged to my wife. We ate in per se and it was, yeah,
it was, So Thomas Keller, and I think just for how he conducts himself and his organization and his food and his flavors. - And your last third one. Doesn't need to be a chef.
- Do you know what, if it doesn't need to be a chef, I'd probably say my mum then. Mum, and I know that's a really cliche answer, but when I look back at what we were talking about earlier, how she bought us up, and my dad.
My dad was busy working on growing vegetables. vegetables. But I'd say my mom, she's amazing. Her home cooking is, I was back in the UK last week and she cooked for the family and it was amazing.
- Amazing. - No, can't get better than the mom's cooking. - Now, with this one, again, a lot of the chefs, they don't mention names and you can keep it anonymous.
- A bit nervous about this one. - Funniest kitchen. incident. - Okay, funniest now looking back on it, wasn't so funny at the time. I remember it was at the Fat Duck,
being in the kitchen. I switched across to yours on the socks and soles section. I remember we were so short on space. Socks and soles section was set up in the hind's head. So-- - In the pub. - In the pub, in the hind's head.
They had a little bit more room than us. And I used to go and make all the socks and soles in a pressurized brat pan. And then I ended up making all the hind's head soles as well. well. So it was a double job, but it gained consistency.
So I remember we used to just call, mobiles weren't really a thing back then. Sounding old now. And it was landline. And I remember we used to call the kitchen, hindsight, fat duck and the prep house,
which is just down the road a bit. And the phone was going all day long. And I remember so annoying. Yeah. It was when you're trying to prep. I remember we'd be in the fat duck trying to prep and the phone would ring and it would probably. probably ring 15 times.
And then it was like one of us would have to move to pick up the phone. But I remember the phone was ringing and someone asked for something and they'd already started servicing. It was quite annoying that I had then had to send it across to the Fat Duck.
So I remember I called them to kind of get them back. And I remember putting on like an old English gentleman's voice when I called the Fat Duck. I put on, it was a name that I'd heard. I'd heard Derek and so I'd heard Heston.
I'd heard Ashley talking about it. a name called Derrick Bulma. So he was the editor of the Michelin guy in the UK. So I remember pretending to be Derrick Bulma. So I put on an old English gentleman's voice.
And I remember I was kind of stringing the chef along and I didn't say who it was. And I put the phone down and I was like, I just, just tell Ashley that Derrick Bulma called for him. We put the phone down. I remember laughing, went off and busy,
went back and made the sources. And I remember, I remember about two days later, I remember Ashley came in and was like, Tom, you didn't. call the kitchen, "pretend to be Derek Bournemouth." I was like, "Well, a couple of days ago, yeah, that was me." He was like,
"You're an idiot." Heston has been panicking, not knowing who called, thinking it was Derek Bournemouth, called Michelin, called Derek. - No. - Ashley was fretting,
and I was like, "Oh, no." I remember, I was only messing around. He's like, "You can't do that." Anyway, so I remember Heston walked into the hindsight. hindsight. He's like, "Tom, can I have a word?" And I remember I put my tentacles down.
I remember walking and I was like, "Oh, no." And he's like, "Tom." And I was like, "Heston, I think I know what this is about. Is this about calling the kitchen as Derek Bournemain?" And he's like, "Yeah." And he started to kind of, started to give me a lecture.
And I remember saying, "Derek, Heston, can I just stop, stop you there?" I was joking around, blah, blah, blah. I remember I told myself off to Heston. And I think he was like, "Oh, okay." you've just said everything I need to say.
St. Please don't do that again." I was like, "No, lesson learned." But yeah, I remember I pretended to be Derek Bournemouth, who was the editor of the Michelin Guide. And yeah, at the time it wasn't funny. Didn't he give Marco his three stars? I think he did. Yeah,
he did. Yeah. And obviously Heston, three stars. So yeah, that wasn't my finest moment, but it was pretty funny. And pretty funny now to look back on. And the last time I went and stayed with Heston, last year,
the year before, and I remember talking about the story, he kind of had his... head in his hands, but yeah, so that was the Derek Bournemouth story. - Do you know, like, let me tell you a crazy story. I was about to open a restaurant in Shoreditch in London quite some time ago,
and I had to cook for Derek and his son, James. - Okay, yep. - And they were like, and when Derek came in, and I knew Derek's history. Yeah, I was I was I was just Enraged of panic because I knew the guy who he was his entire history.
Yeah, and He said just cook the entire menu and it was a la carte He's just cooking time in time in you nice and easy. Yeah, okay, so we did it and he just smashed through it and the nicest thing is he was just so incredible about his feedback and so genuine,
you know, and he was such a fantastic guy. And I will never forget him. But yes, so Derek Bullmer, one of the nicest guys. And also, I think he was feared as well amongst so many shit.
Absolutely, he was. Because he had so much power. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that wasn't my finest moment. But legend. I remember another time as well, I remember in service. I remember on a Sunday, it was a Sunday. Heston was in service and I remember he nipped out to pastry.
I remember we used to swap all his spoons in the Packageet container for forks and we put like one spoon and four forks in there so he'd be plating and he'd be like, whoever keeps swapping my spoons for forks,
can you please stop it? 'Cause I'm gonna stab someone with one of them and we're like, right, okay, let's not put any more spoons. We'll do it to Ashley. When Ashley comes in, we'll do it to him, but not Heston. Hester. These are the things that get you to the day.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. Should have put a bit Tabasco in his water or something next time. So, your favorite cuisine? Oh, that's a really, that's a really tricky one. Do you know what?
I don't actually have an answer to that. My answer to that is, depending on the mood, who you're with, where you are. Ah, this summer I was in Thailand with my family and the flavors in Thailand,
the fruit, were next level. Yeah. Bangkok, and taking my two daughters down to Chinatown on a tuk -tuk, and being in Chinatown was, you know, eating off, you know, sat on a rickety chair,
eating the most amazing food that's cooked, you know, from a health and safety nightmare, was, it was boring. My daughters had never seen anything like that in their lives. So yeah, I'm going to give a bit of a wishy -washy answer and say,
depending on where I am, I mean, at home, I just love to eat simple, tasty, homely food. I've got a guilty pleasure of, I probably shouldn't admit this, but I love McDonald's in Dubai. I go to Hesa Street McDonald's quite a lot.
On my way back, keep my car. It's amazing. Pickle, pickle, jailbird. I love going to the timeout market as well. That's always a really good evening.
Again, a lot of chefs. A lot of chefs. no joke. They've said McDonald's and even in the UK, I know that some of the big Michelin star boys are rating different McDonald's in different service stations.
- Do you know what, yeah, so I would say Hesse Street McDonald's in Dubai, the Fanta in Dubai as well, it's next level. - Extra sugar. - It's extra sugar, extra orange color. I joke to the team actually at work and I say if we ever can't get the Mandarin puree for the meat food,
we'll just use Dubai Fanta. - Love it, it's the same, it's the same. color? - It's phenomenal. Everyone that comes, I take them to Hesa Street, McDonald's. - So, are you a sweet or a savory? - Ooh,
again, I'm both. Yeah, I'm gonna say both. At the moment, I've got a bit of a fetish for lollipops, which is really weird. - What type of lollipops, then? - Well,
in Dubai, I don't even know what the brand are. They're organic. They're almost like a clippo, but it's like a posh clippo. - Right. - And I'll get in and I'll, I had three the other night, which is really bad.
And I was in the UK last week and I stayed with my sister and I was like, "Have you got any lollies?" And they're like, "No." So at 10 .30, I was like, "Right, if you're keeping my sister." That's a tough one to go. I went down to Tesco's and we spent 25 pounds on twisters.
- No way. - Of fabs. It's like, I've got a pregnant fetish for lollipops. - Good times. - And it's winter. winter, it was frosty there. So, yeah, it's a, I need to get on top of that one.
- I'll have a chat with a doctor later. - 'Cause that undoes all of the good work I'm trying to do in the gym. (laughing) - Favorite ingredient. - Ooh, this is a tough one as well. I'm gonna say,
I love shiitake mushrooms. I love bergamot. Yeah, so shiitake bergamot. - I love what you can do with those. - Yeah, I remember when bergamot. became available,
'cause a lot of burgamot go to the perfume industry. I think 95 % go to the perfume industry. And when we were in London, a company called Natura would get them for us, like a specialized fruit and veg,
and I remember using that, it was the smell and the flavor. And shiitake mushrooms, we do quite a lot with shiitake mushrooms at the restaurant. It's just so high in amount of me. Yeah, so I'm gonna say burgamot and shiitake mushroom.
Sorry if that's a bit of a strange one. Another tool. all. The trickiest of all questions for the chefs and anyone on the show. What advice would you give to 16 -year -old Tom Allen?
16 -year -old Tom Allen. I would say just do what you feel is right. I haven't had any regrets on what I've done to look back and give myself advice.
I would say follow your gut, surround yourself by people who will allow you to. progress and develop, and be a good person. Treat people with respect.
Do you know what, I'm in my forties now, early forties. I would say make sure you take care of yourself from a health point of view and, you know,
look after yourself. And I heard, I think it was Eddie Hearn, boxing promoter. I heard him say last week, actually, it was on a podcast that too. how you enter your forties,
I think is well determined how you enter your fifties, your sixties, and if you're lucky enough to make it to your seventies. So I think balance and be healthy, make sure you get enough sleep.
And lollipops. And lollipops and exercise and, you know, take care of yourself. And I think, yeah, I think balance, I think is really important. So yeah, that's what I would say. I say, make sure you take care of yourself and just be true to yourself.
- And then the final question. What advice would you give for any upcoming or young chefs who want to enter into the industry? - I would say be prepared to work very hard.
I would say be passionate. Again, surround yourself by good people. I think that's really important. And I think also pick the right environment for you. I think that's really important.
I think our industry is changing. I think the way kitchens are run is changing. And I think to make sure that you're in the right restaurant for you, I think so many people enter this industry and maybe have a bad experience and leave the industry,
which I find really sad. So I think do your homework and make sure that you go to the right restaurant that's going to suit you, suit your character. And yeah, ask questions. I always say to the team,
ask as many questions as you like. Ask the same question over and over as well. We'd rather you ask, get it right. So not to make mistakes, but also making mistakes is good.
And I think to celebrate making mistakes in a smart way, try not to do it too much, but learn from it and make mistakes, you know, when you do something for the first time,
you're not very good at it. You've got to practice, you've got to do it over. over and over, make mistakes, learn from mistakes and continue. So I would say all of those things. So to recap,
everything that we've just discussed, childhood memories, which I love and talk here, and I'm from Devon, so, you know, I love anything. Where abouts in Devon? Exeter. Okay. And my dad lived in Torquay and Painton,
so I know those areas extremely well. Types of food growing. growing up early kitchen education uh Lumiere and of course then heading into the fat duck the experiences you had in a three star the thought the small spaces uh of course Ashley Palmer Watts and Heston who have played and are still playing an instrumental part professionally and personally to you which is incredible then dinner by Heston in the UK developing
all those sorts of things then the accolades that came along and the of course Dubai, Atlantis the Royal, which is a nominal place and everybody needs to go and check it out because it's just beautiful.
Toughest parts of the job. And then your quick fire questions. So Tom, if anybody wants to get a hold of you via social media, what's the best way to do that? So to say Instagram is probably the best way.
Yeah. So Instagram, just a personal message. And yeah, I try to respond. to everyone that messages, and it's really hard. It may be a few days later, but I will definitely get back.
Could be a question about job or reservation for the restaurant. Okay. So I'll put all of that also in the show notes that everybody can have a look. Fantastic. Thank you. And all that's left for me to say is a huge,
huge thank you to yourself for coming onto the show and being so candid and really, I've learned a huge deal. deal and I just wanted to say a massive thank you for coming on the show.
It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having us, to you and your team and it's been really lovely to sit and chat and I really appreciate it and yeah,
hopefully look forward to bumping into you many more times. Absolutely. Thanks James. Thank you. Tom has such a lovely calm manner about him. Can you imagine what it's like to be on it must have been like for him to step into the fat duck for the very first time?
The incredible thing about Tom is that he works extremely closely with Heston, as well as the entire senior management team at dinner by Heston, to ensure the history of the dishes and the bloodline of the brand stays true to its roots.
The other thing that I must mention is how much I love the fact that Tom is keeping it real when it comes to his guilty food pleasures especially the lollipops. Make sure to follow Tom as well as dinner by Heston on Instagram,
head over to the show notes for more details. As always, a big thank you to JJ and the entire team at Podcast Now for producing the show. Don't forget that you can now watch us on YouTube. And if you haven't already,
make sure to follow, share and subscribe. Thank you so much to the Grilled Podcast by the staff can team for this fantastic collaboration. And finally you. the listener for supporting the show Every single way possible every single share every single follow Really does make a bigger impact than you could possibly know till next time food is memories