The Chef JKP Podcast
The Chef JKP Podcast
Season 5 - Episode 11 - Halil Asar - Hospitality is a Feeling!
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In this enlightening episode of the Chef JKP podcast, host Chef JKP welcomes Halil Asar, a pioneering figure in the hospitality industry.
Halil shares his inspirational journey from his early days in his mother's restaurant to becoming the youngest three-star Michelin maitre d' in Europe.
Currently the director of operations for the Amai restaurant group, Halil provides profound insights on leadership, teamwork, and the challenges faced by the industry.
ChefJKP and Halil discuss:
- Following Your Passion and Dreams
- Commonalities Among High-End Restaurants
- The Pressure of Working in Top Restaurants
- Managing People and Leadership at a Young Age
- The Challenge of Non-Alcoholic Beverages
- The Expanding Food Scene in the Middle East
You can follow Halil on HERE
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and memories. Wherever you are in the world, whatever you're doing, I ask that you sit back and listen and perhaps take away a few morsels of advice. There will be laughter,
we're gonna get serious. Above all, lessons for life. You're listening to the Chef JKP podcast and this is what you can expect on today's show.
- There's a saying, "Alone you go fast, together you go far, go for that route." It's the end. the end, that will help you. How many superstars, celebrities of its music industry or chefs fail because they work alone?
They go fast, but they crash very hard. There is more focus on the show at the table, the presentation, the element of wow.
And unfortunately, sometimes taste is forgotten. But yeah, the pressure was on. because you knew that every service was fully booked and yes,
people were spending a lot of money to dine with us and people literally flying in because you're on the world culinary map because of your two stars or three stars and you need to give these people what they deserve.
- The guest on this week's show at one point in his career was the youngest three stars. -star Michelin matriot in Europe. He has worked for some of the best and most famous three -star Michelin establishments in the world.
Has written an incredible book all about wines and travel. At the same time, he also champions non -alcoholic offerings. He has been in the industry for over 20 years and is now the director of operations for the award -winning Amai restaurant group.
Here's a philosophy on it. front -of -house service is something I feel that every single hospitality professional should take very seriously. There are some real insights when it comes to leadership,
mentoring, and above all, how guests can become your best friend even after letting off some steam. On the podcast this week, I welcome back my very first ever podcast guest,
the talented Halil Aziz. We discuss his formative years in his mother's restaurant, as well as the meaning of true hospitality. Also, how sommeliers can showcase wines and tell stories in order to make that all -important upsell.
Equally, discuss several challenges when it comes to dealing with conflicts within the workplace. To be honest, Khalil is simply inspirational. His philosophy.
philosophy when it comes to delivery of service and hospitality as a whole is world class. There are a lot of lessons in this show, so do take notes.
Listen up for a story involving the all -important staff briefings. Time to rock and roll. Just before we begin, here is a small message from this week's guest.
Hi guys, my name is Halil Azhar. If you you like the Chef JKP podcast, please make sure to follow, share and subscribe and hear the latest, the hottest and the best hospitality news and remember foodies memories.
Welcome back to the Chef JKP podcast. And on the show today, I am extremely excited and honored to welcome back my first ever guest.
He is the group director of operations for the Amai Gourmet restaurants. It's the one and only Mr. Halil Azar. Halil, welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me back James.
It's amazing to be here and congratulations. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, since you last came on the show, we spoke about your book and so many other things, but now we're going to get into even more details.
Yeah. Right? Right? For sure. For sure. The biggest news, we came all out of the house because it was COVID time. Exactly. So first things first, can you please tell me your first or favorite ever childhood food memory?
Wow. Yeah, it's amazing. We go way back. My mom was working a lot, three jobs, a single mom, and I remember it's not even one dish.
It's seven. dishes made with chicken and rice because what she did is she made chicken and rice in seven different varieties because we were a little short in funds.
It was not easy at that time, but she managed while she was working in a restaurant, the learning recipes to create chicken and rice in seven different ways. So for me,
it's just the emotion behind it rather than just the flavor. So on Monday, I was eating chicken and rice sandwich. Then it was a stew.
Then it was something like a burger. And then it was a chicken and rice goulash, can you imagine? So it is a lot of meaning behind this. And yeah,
if you put love into food, it will absolutely taste nice and create memories. - Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's incredibly... creative, right? But that's what parents do,
you know, out of love. - Yes. - You know, and I think that's incredible. So just remind us for people who didn't listen to the first one, what are your roots when it comes to food and restaurants in general?
- Yeah, we can skip again a generation actually. My grandma from my mom's side used to be a chef for a family. family, a very wealthy family.
And obviously my mom was kind of like a sous chef to her to help her doing basic stuff. And this is where it all started. And in my book, there is a page dedicated to my grandma with her signature dish.
And you see me literally sitting on a potty while she's doing the prep for this family. She's making a soup. And I think this is where... it all started.
And then coming, of course, to my mom, she was widowed at the age of 21, and she was studying law. And she had to drop this study to work and make easy money.
And talking about 42 years ago, hospitality restaurant jobs were easy. You could just get cash in hand every night. And this is where it all started.
And obviously when I grew up and I had to help my mom again because at one point the restaurants where she worked as she become a partner and co -owner. And so we're all absorbed and involved in this scene.
And this is how it started. - So because I think what was one of the really beautiful things that you were saying previously is that when you were doing your homework, it was in the wine cellar. - Yeah,
indeed. So, So the daily flow was, I go to school. After school, immediately jump on my bike in Holland, in the Netherlands,
back in the days, and help my mom with prep work for the restaurant. But at the same time, I need to do homework, right? I had like an hour break, but I was not studying my books.
I was studying boxes, and back in the days, it wasn't cardboard. It was wooden boxes. and each wine box had a nice label on the side with the vintage. I was studying that what this is all mean,
Chateau Margot, Mise -en -Bouteau Chateau and 1995 what this is mean you know like and I was studying that so I was really absorbed and intrigued by that and I didn't know there was so much variety and I kind of start liking it and my mom saw that and she said okay you're going to school what teach you more and that was done hotel management school back in the days.
And what was was it an easy thing for you when it came to the education part and what I mean by that is did you already know your destiny when it came to the restaurant scene was it already because it was obviously in your blood from your grandmother from your mom was it already ingrained in you that you were going to be a hospitality professional yeah as you say it's a violent.
it's a feeling, you know, it just feels right. And if you really believe that this is destiny for you, and you feel it, you don't know it yet, because you're too young, you still need to discover,
you need to go your path. But if it feels right, just go for it. And that's my advice to every young listener now, if you really believe and you feel you are going to be the next astronaut,
go, go, go, chase your dreams and and lock yourself into it and ask for help for anyone who can get you there. And yeah, I felt it, it felt right. And yeah,
and everything what came to me, it was so natural and so organic and I feel so connected with it. And if you then put your heart into it,
it's just a very organic flow. Oh, it's a very nice actually feeling. failing, so you don't need to study much hard because every day learning,
day -to -day learning is your book. So the other thing, I want to just ask you a small favour. Can you, because your CV is phenomenal, especially when it comes to Michelin.
Now, if you can, can you just bullet point for me, the restaurants that you worked in with the amount of stars first? Yes, yes. My first ever job was in my hometown Zvola, represented by Yoni and Trezebore,
the Liberia, three Michelin stars. I started working at the age of 14 while doing studies, while working for my mom in the weekends. So that's three stars. Then I moved to Amsterdam to a restaurant called Vermeer,
two stars Michelin at that moment in the NH hotels. And the kitchen was... was kind of consulted by Ferran Adria at that time, from El Bulli, three Michelin stars.
So we had even a star, also three days with him. Then I moved to the beautiful intercontinental Amsterdam Hotel, and there's a restaurant called La Rive. Also two Michelin stars.
I served there almost a year. And during a wine dinner, I met the patron, and actually my longest boss, Kase Helder. and with him and restaurant Parker of Alain Rotterdam,
who were the first in Holland to achieve three Michelin stars. And I was fortunate to start very young with him and to be a matriot de sommelier at the age of 24. We got our first Michelin star.
After that, I worked for restaurant Ivy with François Hoed, a very talented chef. I worked there when it was one star and a little later it received two stars.
stars and This is where actually my Michelin real Michelin star journey ended all in Holland then I moved to the Middle East and We all know where we stand now.
Michelin is in town. The scene is growing the quality The environment is really improving and hope one day I can put another star on my jacket here Because look,
I think it's a phenomenal CV when it comes to those stars, but what I wanted to sort of ask you is, it's no mean feat working at that level. At one point, you were the youngest three -star mission matriot in Europe.
- Yes. - So this is, again, something, and at a very young age, your knowledge must have been, you know, like a bibliotech, I call it, you know. What did all of those restaurants,
would you say, had in common? because they obviously had a common thread when it comes to service, when it comes to food, when it comes to hospitality. But you yourself,
when you were in the fire, how was that? What is that bloodline that those restaurants are getting right? I think all of them, to answer your question very directly,
they were all family owned. And the chef was the patron, means owner, the wife. was the host. The wife was the HR. The wife was the finance.
Sons involved, family involved. Grandpa was the painter and the carpenter. And the team was family. And this is something with time, I think,
and especially related to this environment is not on that level yet. It's less family -owned. There's less heart. [MUSIC PLAYING] I would say it might sound a little bit kick in the face for some people,
but I think that all the restaurant had that in common. It was family owned, it was their house, it was their castle, and it was more than passion, it was their legacy.
And I think that's something inspiring and I will never forget. And that's why I have so much respect for these patrons still, till they operating, working and retaining their stars.
well. But look, anybody who hasn't worked at that level, I don't believe they know or they feel two things. The level of detail that goes into those restaurants,
but number two is the level of pressure that goes into working at such high -end establishments. You're talking for the formula ones of the restaurant world.
How was the... pressure for you in those restaurants? Did you feel it or because you were ingrained in it, it wasn't something that really bothered you? - Yeah, first of all,
allow me. There are so many restaurants today in the world who are on that level, but just because they are not awarded a Michelin star or they're not acknowledged in a guide doesn't mean they're not in the elite.
So please, to everyone who's listening, keep on rocking it keep on shining keep on putting your heart into it because mr. Michelin or whatever ranking didn't award you or listed you doesn't mean you're not there there are so many restaurants I have still very dear friends today in Holland rocking it even better doing better than several Michelin stars in the world and I absolutely hold my hand up for that they don't
have a star and that's in a way unfair I would say but it's not up to me but to everyone is listening everyone is on a stage where the audience is the same you know everyone can come into your restaurant who ate yesterday in a three -star can come into your restaurant now and just because you don't have a star don't give up so for me it was serious.
You need to take this serious. It's not a job and that's the difference I think. We never showed up to work as a job. I worked in this restaurant park for 10 years and I never asked for a raise.
No, I was on a mission. I was, every day my mission was to put my uniform on and the question was do I represent this property in the best way?
With my body language, with my attire, with the smile on my face. And I was fair enough to hold my hand up to say, "Hey, listen, I'm not super fit today. I need you to back me up." So it was locked in always.
I was focused. But yeah, the pressure was on because you knew that every service was fully booked. And yes, people were spending a lot of money to dine with us and people literally flying in.
because you're on the world culinary map because of your two stars or three stars and you need to give these people what they deserve. You're inviting them to your house, they're your guests,
so you need to give your best. So that was more the pressure of giving the people what they deserve rather than the trust and the belief that we, yes, work with the best producers, yes,
we have the best team, yes, we have proven. that we are quite good actually, but not to disappoint people, that was the biggest pressure. - So the other thing I wanted to ask you from a personal perspective,
is that because you were top level matriarchy in Europe at that time, nobody, I believe, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, nobody really sort of teaches you or tells you how to manage people.
Especially when you're... young in your twenties. I think it's extremely difficult. How did you, because we know that you know yourself, that chefs are different, they have that different management style,
let's say, but from your point of view, leading these top flight restaurants, how was it for you? I mean, you had the pressure on your shoulders to keep up those standards at all times to represent the property,
but you also... had to lead that front of house team. How was that? Yeah, you say it right. I was young and many people now in the world are leading companies at a young age and my key message here is you are not alone.
So I always had someone to go to and to speak to. I was never afraid to ask for help. To come to the point, it was always the the patron, the chef,
or the wife, where I always knocked on the door and say, "I need you here." Yes, as much as they're the one paying me for the job, but it's better safe than sorry to say,
"I have a situation. It could be with a colleague. It could be with a guest. What would you like me to say and do? I need you here." Because at the end, if I do wrong because of my age,
because of my emotional control, I don't have that much life experience. I have a gut feeling, but at the end, I represent you. I represent your legacy and it's your pride.
Help me here. And that's my advice, special now. It's a mental game. Unfortunately, many people suffer, many people fail just because it's too much ego involved.
Reach out, even if it's not your daughter. colleague, reach out to your friend. Like I would call you to say, "Hey buddy, what's up? Listen to this. What do you say?" And that's it. And that's my advice now.
For any game, any industry, you can be stuck. It's human. It's normal. And if you don't know the answer, reach out. And I think that's also the leader I am today.
I am very open book. The door is open. If I'm stuck. I consult with my team, maybe they know the answer. And that's my advice. I think that's a fantastic answer, Halil, thank you, because you're right.
A lot of people within, especially within the higher management level, they would always go within and never sort of consult because the ego is the worst enemy, right?
So I think also, but for you to have the foresight and to have the mature nature to go beyond and be like. like, "You know what? I'm going to take five minutes and I'm going to ask the chef patron or whatever,
I think it's really fantastic." You have to work as a committee, you know, there's a saying, "Alone you go fast, together you go far, go for that route because at the end that will help you." How many superstars,
celebrities of its music industry or chefs fail because they work alone? They go fast but they crash very hard and yeah. It's not an easy journey. Exactly. But look, the other thing I wanted to sort of touch upon is from your perspective and your knowledge,
what would you define as true hospitality? Hospitality is a home feeling, what you need to give. Hospitality is welcoming people to your cafe,
your restaurant and you just have to give them a feeling of your welcome. welcome. Maybe it's not the best food you're going to eat or maybe you're going to compare my food or my drink or my service,
with your experience of yesterday, but this is what I give you with all my heart and that's my hospitality." It's not per se a comparison.
Hospitality is true operating, working, talking from the heart and I think that's hospitality and that's what in countries like, let's say less polished,
like Thailand in the streets, there's this, what is it, 70 -year -old street hawker with his goggles, with his key goggles. - J -Fi, huh? - J -Fi, exactly, a salute to her.
Having the world at her forester, because she does everything with heart, same for her team, hospitality is all about heart. And don't freak out if so. decides to come to you and to experience your hospitality but you better give your heart and you better put the best you have on the table then they will respect.
They will have their opinion, they might say in themselves okay I had better meals but even the food was delayed, the way the server deal with it, it's amazing and that's why I will come back and that's why distrust.
this restaurant will have a future. It's not all about, "Tack, tack, tack." You know, to punish, it's no. Don't be afraid, just do you from the heart, believe in your team,
and that's hospitality. - Yeah, and because I agree with you, look, so many times I think the service teams, they save the ass of the chef or the kitchen.
And quite rightly, it's because of the welcome, it's because they've put the-- heart into it, it's because you know so many things but on the flip side it can be heartbreaking when you have the kitchen kind of doing as much as they can and then some of the service team members are not engaged per se or they don't give their all or deliver you know it's it's because it's a very it's a double -edged sword right it's
not easy. Yeah for example I deal with very big teams I walked in big hotel operation with 11 outlets. I had at 1 .260 people reporting to me. And there's always an issue or a scene where a guest is not happy or the food is delayed or in between colleagues there are conflicts.
And I always say, okay, guys, let's go to your house, we're going to sit on your sofa. We are your guests. And then we're going to talk this out in a correct way, as in the world of hospitality.
Talk to me now. as you would talk to your guest. Would you send me out? Would you disrespect me? Would you not just give your heart to solve the situation? So,
and that's to the younger listeners and even in my team, and they know who's listening, they will recall a lot of conversations with me to say, okay guys, hospitality is always imagined that you're welcoming people to your home.
If you are located in a second home, in a restaurant and that's your four or five tables, treat them as they decided to come to your house and to eat your food, to drink your drink and walk out with saying,
thank you, I really appreciate. So yeah, and it's a journey. There's no script, the same person, you know, it's different, the guest meaning, today he's happy, tomorrow he's sad,
because that's life. Yeah, but I think that's also a fantastic way to do it. mentor young people, especially when they're coming up in their management roles, is that feeling of hospitality.
Because I feel again, some restaurants get it spot on, some restaurants could be the very best or whatever, but then the hospitality isn't there, you know? So that for me is quite a big thing that's missing.
Now what I cannot ignore Halil, again, going back to... your wine knowledge and certification, education and love for wines.
Why do you feel that, you know, we always see the speakeasy bars are like the hero, right? It's all about the cocktails and that sort of thing. But we all know,
alcoholic or non -alcoholic, there are some phenomenal, extraordinary wines out there. Why are those not celebrated as much, would you say? - Wine is made by a wine maker.
It's labeled. Yes, you can decide if you put it in a carafe and then put it in a glass or you do the show by holding a glass in the hand and pour the wine.
But there is not much hot further in making the product. But if you speak cocktails or... mixology, the creation is from the person in front of you.
He's literally shaking it in front of you. You're putting the ingredients together and he serves it in front of you. So my advice is to make wine more a celebration.
It's not only tell the people, show the label, where it's coming from, what is the vintage and how. rainy or how dry the year was.
Yes, that's education, but so many yeas are too much, how do you call it, too scripted. They only want to tell you how much they know about the wine.
No, talk to us about what is your memory of drinking this wine or selecting this wine to represent it on your list and why is it so good with the dishes of wine.
Chef James, right? What is his philosophy? And this is how I pair and James, you and me work together. It's not always choosing a wine with a dish. No, sometimes there's a wine and I would ask you,
ah, I taste this in the wine. I imagine this flavors. Can you please cook something? What comes close to this? And that's the emotion again, that's hard. So hospitality in wine.
wine is also the true essence of flavor emotions Thinking and imagination sometimes you need to get lost and that's the thing. I think with wine What can we walked on not only the beautiful?
the fine brush on your jacket and Having a list of 600 references beautiful lined up in vintages on the page. No It's intract be yourself.
Tell a little bit more in depth about the wine, not per se. What is it coming? Where is it coming from? The alcohol? No, I see you ordering this dish. Would you like me to recommend some wines would go very well?
My recommendation, would you take it? This is how some liais, I would say, should interact with. I guess that the table because look, if you if you go back to childhood,
childhood. Yeah, we all love stories Yes, right all of us doesn't matter what it is. Everyone loves a story Yeah, and I agree with you that if if the sommelier was to upsell a wine based on The chef's presentation or the dish or the flavors or when they tasted this you're absolutely right if the sommelier came to me and said look I see that you've chosen so so on and so forth.
I've got some really fantastic Choices May I recommend? You're gonna be like, yes. Especially when they open up and 'cause you're gonna be interested. You know, not just about the label and that,
okay, fine, we get that part. But also when they're putting their own twist on things, it sort of makes you more excited and you go, oh my God. Yeah, this is amazing. - Exactly. And there are so much good developments. Why not challenging a guest to say,
hey, we want to taste the wine from Georgia? Would you like a taste of wine? from Greece? Yeah, well, that's not famous. That's not common. No, that's why I'm here.
I want you to have an amazing experience. Maybe it's a memory for life, you know? - And you open that adventure to them, right? - Exactly. - So now, am I gourmet? First of all, what I want to sort of understand is,
is tell me specifically the concept of kata. What is this? How was the inception of kata? and where are you located? Yes, kata, first of all,
the meaning, it comes from martial arts. It's basically kata stands for a movement. As we say, martial art is Japanese and Asian and all their crafts are with discipline,
are with patience. So kata is a movement. So we translate it to whatever we do is discipline. So we're a house of discipline, how we source our products. products, we take time,
we put heart into it, how we select our team, we just want good characters and diversity of characters to make the show complete. It's how we designed our venue, a lot of details in there,
a lot of beautiful ambiance elements are there, but also the execution, you know, how we cut our meats, how we cut our fish, how we sear a vegetable. So everything is disciplined,
how we communicate. So whatever we do is with heart and discipline. My gourmet restaurant was the dream of Mr. Muglasar Pinto, a serial entrepreneur,
Canadian entrepreneur, traveling the world. And sometimes I tease him with the Michelin story saying, "Hey, you traveled the world, you sleep in hotels, you dine in restaurants, and you actually compare and judge and say this was good,
this could be better." And just because... of the love of travel and being exposed to different food together with his brothers they said hey that's our next destination we should do with amazing restaurant and they decided to buy more as a destination and here they brought on board Marwan Sardouk well -known chef here in the region and myself and together with the Rahman family we created Amai Gurme restaurants as a
restaurant group and our first success and brainchild is Kata. So we're in the Dubai Mall, waterfront promenade, front row seats to the beautiful dancing fountains,
and I have to say, we're not another mall restaurant. We shock people. We kind of surprise people with the level of quality of food and the servers and the presentation,
the plating. we put out there and people say like, "Hey, shouldn't you be in the DIFC? Shouldn't you be in a five -star hotel?" We choose this area. We want to be in the center of the world. We want to cater to a lot of pallets,
international, local, and we're happy where we are. Of course with that, being in a mall, not having the chance to work all it creates a new area of creativity for us to have an amazing bar and mixology plan with 0 % alcohol and their great solutions,
as we know. And to surprise people, not to serve just Coca -Cola on the table, but more and greater flavors in a glass. - Yeah, because look, for anyone who hasn't been,
so if you just picture the scene, you have sort of all the fast food chains, food courts around that sort of thing. And then when you come to... Qatar, first of all,
you're greeted super professionally by the hostesses, you walk in and you're transported into this beautiful restaurant, you have this incredible mural at the back,
and then you walk past sort of the bar, the sushi counter, and then the open kitchen. But then the difference is, is that when you're being served, it's a high I would say Michelin -esque experience when it comes to being served.
Then your mocktails, they don't look like mocktails, they look like alcoholic cocktails and there's the dry ice everywhere, but it's not just about that, the show's fantastic. But let's not talk about the show,
let's talk about the flavors. The flavors of the mixology is also super vibrant. And then, of course, the team in the kitchen, when you're-- you're tasting that food, again, the presentation is beautiful,
taste is fantastic. So for a mall restaurant, I can imagine it was very weird in the beginning for the customers to go like, "Well, this is a bit high -end.
I'm not used to this level of service." Yeah, you're right. So first of all, we selected and assembled an amazing team. And yes, we have people working with us today who had years of experience.
in the best restaurants in Dubai and named the top brands. We have them. And as we are Japanese concepts, we have chefs who worked in the best restaurants in Dubai. We have servers who worked in the best five -star hotels and the best restaurants.
But the number one rule is no compromise on quality. Yes, you can have a Wagyu A5 in the Dubai model at Qatar. You can have scallops or you can have a very very premium other meat or fish,
Chilean sea bass. And the prices are right because we kept it in mind. We're serving in a mall. We cannot give, let's say, DIFC pricing or a five -star hotel pricing.
So we're on a mission. It's not easy. And it will take still time to convince people to dine with us to say like, OK, you get top -quality food for a very low price.
price and it just don't look good. It really tastes good because we spend so much time on getting these flavors together and so yeah very interesting.
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website, www .2106 .com. Now back to the episode. But you touched upon the sort of the non -alcoholic part.
Now I want to sort of really focus on that at the minute because it would have been super simple and super easy for you to serve Coca -Cola or an orange juice or whatever.
But no, you've actually got a... a beautiful selection of mocktails that the preparation is out of this world. How did you and the team conceptualize all of this?
- Yeah, I imagine, and that comes from me who served 20 years, the best liquors, the wines in the world. But I have to give credit to all the companies behind these products.
If I can name the Liars company, the Drink Dry, store, even beer brands like Peroni and Asahi, this is a market for them also.
And it's not only serving guests who want to drive, it's a lifestyle. It's a health decision also because alcohol is sugar. It's not always the healthy.
So there are two categories on our menu. We have the wine and the beer, and there's a very nice process with the reversal. or s'mores and distilling and heating up the spirit,
the liquor and removing the alcohol and just work with the substance with this alcohol -free or 0 .000 something halal and the flavor is still there.
In Qatar you can have a beer with taste like beer and just gives you the punch, it gives you the feel but you don't get tipsy. And is that the same for for the wines nowadays?
- Yes, exactly. So what happens is the products we work with, and it's a beautiful brand called Vintense, they buy grapes. There are negochants who are like wine brokers,
grape brokers, they literally buy grapes from great chateaus from wherever in the world, and they process it differently. And so you can have a Blondie Blonde Champagne on the market.
% Chardonnay, what we will serve daily, actually, and it tastes as good. That's crazy. Yeah. And why not? So name a wine or a grape varietal,
and there is not only experimentation with it, no, there are products in the market taste as good as wine. So how do you feel about it? I mean, what I mean is, again,
you have a very honed in palate, 20 plus years. at the top -level service, you know, restaurants all over the world. In the beginning, were you skeptic a bit about it, or were you straight away,
you know what, I think this is the way forward? Yeah. It's still, we're in a process. It's a process of introduction. It's a process of education. And yes, the labels of the wines look a little bit different than the Chateau Margaux made in France.
This label doesn't... doesn't per se say which country or which winery or which vintage. So that's a little bit of essence you have to bring in and talk through.
- But that's a good gap in the market. - Exactly, exactly. And that's the storytelling and trust in the sommelier. Sommelier doesn't have to be someone per se serving alcohol. Someone who's expert in recommending beverages.
So why not known alcoholic? So we're in that phase. of introduction and I'm a true ambassador for this. There's, this is here to stay. This is not a trend. This is not just a hype. This is here to stay.
And I think the product will only evolve more and more and we will see better products coming out. So yeah, people are sometimes skeptical, especially the Western guests who like their pint and who like their gin tonic.
But yeah, we showed them the bottles. We explained the story behind it and we literally... literally, before making a gin tonic, we introduced, we'd like to take a sip, we'd like to smell, oh, actually this smells like gin,
or this tastes like gin, same for the beer, well, bring it on, and before you know, three rounds further, and they're thankful to you. And that's all about hospitality. Right. Win the trust of your guests,
and at the end, it doesn't matter what you serve them, because you serve your heart. Wow. Do you know what I love also, is that I think the type of menu that that you have, you can also elaborate on the chef's tasting menu or if somebody wanted to have that sort of gourmet experience,
you can have it. But if we go back to a classic fine dining restaurant like Noma, for example, and I don't mean classic in the French sense, I mean like well -known, they were sort of,
not one of the first, but they did something very special that they were sort of cultivating their own non -alcoholic kombucha. kombucha's and doing their own sort of... So if you didn't want to have a tasting menu or a wine flight,
they were also doing it with non -alcoholic, you know? And I think this has now opened up the world to people who want to have the non -alcoholic experience, but they can also have the essence of those wine flights.
It's quite interesting, yeah? And Noma, I'm so happy that you mentioned this is a beautiful story. They didn't give it... damn to have two stars for years and be best number one in the world while there are other restaurants with three stars.
No, they did what they believed in. And they didn't really care. But the entire world made a journey up there to Scandinavia to make it a destination,
what the detour or how you call it. And they were fine with two stars. And they just said, like, this is who we are. This is us. How many experience?" And that should be a great motivation for many others here.
And if you feel like you're creating a new drink, if it's called kombucha or if it's a ginger beer or something else, go for it. Maybe you start a new scene or you start a new chapter in the book of gastronomy and believe in it.
But look, the other thing I want to say is wanted to sort of ask you at the same time is with Cata and Amai, obviously you guys have been operating for a few years now.
- Yeah, we're in the second year. - You're creating a name for yourselves. What's the next move for you guys? What would you like to do next? - Yeah, this is news for many people, but we are working on the second venue.
- Congratulations. - Congratulations. - Thank you very much. We decided that the second venue had to be more in a residential area, where we want to somehow elevate the experience even more,
think of the comfort of parking, the service of parking, to have more secluded, but also more privacy environment. We're going to work on private dining experiences.
- Oh, wow. -That's a sneak peek. We're going to do tailored menus. So, more in the private scene. So, what else is there for us? Kata or Amai Gurume is not only about Japanese food.
We are, as we speak, traveling the world to be inspired. So, why not Amai Gurume having an amazing coffee shop with great patisserie?
Or why not Amai Gurume having a great catering shop? or a home service activation. So Amai Gurmei is all about catering to needs of the environment.
And as I say, environment is not only UAE or Dubai. We are looking at expanding and, yeah, establish new venues, maybe wherever in the world.
It's exciting, man. No borders, yes. Yeah. Wow. Wow. But look, the other thing is that because you're, of course, you are a big part of the ever -expanding food scene, not just in Dubai but within the Middle East.
And you've obviously been here for some time and you've seen the changes. What are your thoughts on the food scene here in this region? I think with the technology coming more and more into the food scene,
I think there's is more focus on the show at the table, the presentation, the element of wow. And unfortunately, sometimes taste is forgotten.
Yes, dry ice, everyone used, but doesn't go into your mouth, you know? It's no memories for that. Yeah, you can have visual and experience. So that's a change, I would say.
Well, 12 years ago, when I came to the Middle East, it was all about the food. Instagram was not that active. So the technology and experience,
now even with 3D scanners, if you scan a dish or a drink, it comes to life. So that's a big change, but we cannot forget taste and flavors if it's a beverage or a food.
The essence is eating and drinking and not only. only visually. Because as you know here, especially there's a big fashion, there's a big push to have cabaret shows.
Not so much. There's not too much. Also, I don't see too much table side preparation, unfortunately. And you're right, the taste seems to sort of go out the window. It's more about the Instagram.
How do you feel about that? Is that a threat to the hospitality industry? industry? You say it and I thought about it. Threat is the right word because, you know,
sad enough, you know, everyone works to have a Michelin listing or a Michelin star or a Gumiol listing. And if this influencer didn't visit you,
you are not there. No, please forget that. Maybe your journey takes longer time to get to where you want to be, but maybe where you want to be is do the right thing every day,
and maybe you have a small following of loyal guests who come back and bring friends and bring family that's more valuable than because an influencer visited you,
and he or she respectively know what is good or bad, I don't know, or because he or she came you. are Listed somewhere a lot of politics a lot of again,
maybe we decide disturb some people But it is real the essence is just to work with heart believe in what you do and not per se in which Platform you land or which Instagram feed or reel your featured on tagged on it doesn't per se bring people What brings people is quality of people your team team,
and the quality of your product. And it doesn't matter where you are. If the product is good, people will find you. - I think that's a fantastic point because the other one I wanted to still ask is that, again,
20 years ago, 10 years ago, Instagram wasn't so much in your face. Whenever, certainly when I was sort of growing up within the restaurant sort of structure,
you couldn't Google Image or Facebook. Facebook a meal at Perse or Thomas Keller or Parkover. You'd go there because you'd hear about how incredible the food is.
Nowadays, any food you want, any chef, restaurant dish, it's online, right? So that's sort of either kept the creativity or you have to really think outside the box to really push yourself.
But when it comes to sort of the challenges that I wanted to ask you with social media and within hospitality, I can't ignore mental health. Again, there are so many factors within hospitality that that sort of mental health comes in.
And what I mean by that is, okay, especially in this region, you have the pressure, you have the sort of visa issues, let's say, you have the issues that are my doing well,
can being compared to other people, there's a lot of that. Now, yourself as a hospitality leader and mentor, how do you go about that on a daily basis with your team?
Yeah, first of all, when we interview, when we bring people on board, I said, welcome to Amai Gurmei Katzai restaurant. Yes, we are one of the 14 ,000 restaurants in Dubai.
Are you sure you want to work with us? It starts with that. What an amazing amazing question. Yeah. And then the second question is, what do you know about us? If it's just here,
if you're just here sitting at my table to have a job, tomorrow you're already looking at number, restaurant number 13999 because that's how many people work.
Yes, the region for many people is an escape from back home. home. Yes, not everyone has a good situation back home. You need to flee. You need to build a new future.
I respect that. But I think with the media, with the growth, the speed, and literally the inventory of restaurants and hotels, that's the biggest challenge to retain people.
Because I know truly that I'm good enough for my staff. but do they have the patience to stick around with us? Because it's the wage we pay or the package we offer.
And one of the last questions is in the interview, like, yes, this is a seller we discussed, but allow me to highlight to you what we give more than the monetary reward.
It's me in front of you. I'm here to guide you. I'm here to be your mentor for many years. I'm here in good and bad, I'm not here only to compliment you on your work or whip your ass when you need to do better,
but I'm here also if you need someone with the shoulder to cry on and that's the biggest challenge. I think it's the people because we're on a fast lane, we're on a so fast world,
everything is glam, tomorrow is a new hotel, flashier and that's the biggest challenge, I would say. I think you're right. You know, it's the investment in people. You know, everything else you can sort of work around,
I think. You know, but the biggest challenge is always the people. And you're absolutely right, is how do we retain talent? Because my other question was going to be,
and I think you sort of semi -answered it, is how do you nurture the future superstars of tomorrow? And I think you're right. reason why I'm asking you is because, again, from a technology perspective,
technology will never give us heart -warmth hospitality ever, ever, ever, ever. Right? But for you, you're one of those key people in this region who's always nurturing talent.
But why is it important to you? Today, I still celebrate and enjoy my old colleagues or my people I walk with and grew and I receive pictures saying thanks to you I got my WSF4 certificate thanks to you I am a manager in one of the best restaurants in the region or thanks to you I'm still with the company because you said don't give up be true etc etc and that's today even with us the daily challenge I know with
the owners the direction we're going, but I cannot be always there. So I need to rely or we need to rely on our people. So that's the difficult part.
If it comes to an influencer visiting or a VIP visiting, then suddenly everyone has to check their uniforms better. No, the table next door is as VIP as this lady.
Thank you. you or raking you. And that's the thing with the speed of technology. As we know, compliment the word is spread four times,
but the critic is 20 times. And now with the technology and the speed of internet or what the media is even maybe 50 times or 60 times.
So that's an ongoing process nurturing. nurturing, as you say. I cannot make copies of me, but as much as possible, we need to assemble a team together to give the message out as we want.
So it's a lot of check -ins, a lot of moments of training, a lot of listening, a lot of feedback. And yes, it hurts us if we see a bad review because of what happened in the venue and you think,
hmm, should I be there? No, you have to trust your team. You need to train them and nurture them to do better tomorrow. And that's the exciting part of being a leader.
Being leader is not how much, how quick I can fill in an Excel form or how nice graphics I can present to my peers to say, look, this is what we have done. The best leader is leading a team with heart,
with commitment, with... with confidence, and with the feeling of, "Hey, follow me. We're going this way," and that's the beauty,
I think, of our industry and actually any industry. Human capital, you named it. What is a company without people? Unfortunately, AI and robots are going to take over,
but yeah, till that time, let's train our people, let's nurture them, and let's celebrate. mistakes. And let's not put our heads down because once something went wrong, no.
How do we tackle this? What can we do and look in the mirror? What could have done better? And let's work on it. Let's take credit. Bring it on. You know, that's such an amazing thing to say,
celebrate your mistakes, because so Gordon Ramsey recently was on this show. And one of them, from everything that he said, that key takeaway for me was he said Dance in the storm.
Yeah Because if you embrace that And everything else becomes easy and I think it's that it's what you said But it sort of brings me to another point that I wanted to ask you because we've never discussed this in all the all the years I've known you so I'm going to put you on the spot.
I mean, I'm sorry When it comes to I'm not going to talk about professional food critics, but when it comes to to people critiquing the restaurant,
whether it's Qatar, whether it's somewhere else you work before, and you know that they do not have the professional qualifications that you have rightly earned,
how do you tackle that yourself and the team? Because it's a two -pronged attack, they're attacking or critiquing the restaurant, the kitchen, the staff, everything.
How do you deal with that? First of all, respect everyone who makes the effort to talk to you and say, "For my belief," and maybe it's the right or the wrong tone.
Let's put that aside. You need to value people saying, "I believe," or, "In my belief, this could be better," or, "The service could be faster." You need to say,
"Thank you," to yourself. guests because these are your best teachers, not only me as a leader. The company grows and my creativity, my inspirations comes from my team and from our guests.
I have to say thank you. There is a reason why someone criticizes you and there's an essence, there's a source that you need to find and say yes.
he or she is right. And some people go extreme and some people enjoy making drama and you need to put a filter into that.
To this extent, I agree with you, sir, ma 'am, in the restaurant, but here this doesn't make sense. So, again, your guests are in your house,
they choose to dine with you, they They could go anywhere, especially in Dubai. They could go next door to spend their money. They came to you to bring their money to you. So be thankful.
And how much guests you're serving and how fast you're serving, you still should step back and say, yes, this person has a point. I need to control your emotion and take this forward.
Maybe you don't have to serve. or the answer immediate and be okay to say to the guest at this moment, I cannot do much more for you. You have eaten. I cannot for you a free drink.
I can give you a discount for as an excuse, but I would like to talk to you tomorrow day after because it doesn't stop here and this is where I think many restaurants or industry fail is the service recovery.
post -visit, post -visit. Welcoming guests, take their money, feed them and send them out. Done. Next. But real hospitality is after the guests leave.
You want to welcome them back, so why not before a guest leave know his or her name? Because if something went well or either wrong, you can pick up the phone and say,
"Thank you." thank you for the compliment. It really made our day. I shared it with the team in the briefing, but also thank you for highlighting something we could have done better. Also, this is brought to the highlight with the team and thank you,
you make us better. So being a true critic or an influencer with the blue tick or I don't know how many restaurants you need to visit to call yourself a critic. No, everyone is valued.
each critic is valuable, and you need to work with that. I think that's a very, it's a lovely answer, honey, really. But I'm just wondering, because you know,
you know how some people, they love to make drama just because, you know, something went wrong, or they've had a really horrid day, and then they want to take it out on somebody, you know, because I'm sure there's, well, we know that there's people out there like that.
But you're right, and I think if it's done in the correct sense... a critique can be a piece of gold that you can add to your armor. Yeah, I had many times that I encountered this kind of guest and they let go,
and sometimes that's nothing to do with the food, whatever, but something would happen before coming to the restaurant. And because of dealing and let them speak and take it all in and giving value to them for their expression,
before leaving, quite often I get a handshake. to say thank you for letting me be, it was a tough day, but actually the food was okay and we will be back and these guests are loyal forever and believe me and your worst enemy can be your best friend or your supporter and you just should not give up on the moment.
I love that. I love that. Now, before we get into the quick fire questions, what's your take on the future of hospitality in this region? region? Hospitality of the future in the region.
As we mentioned, I think there's an amazing development and growth in non -alcoholic services for beverage. I think that's something to think of. I think a more personalized service.
And I was happy to hear that in one of your earlier podcasts, I like to see restaurants becoming a little smaller, more personalized. So I really have a time to chat with you rather than you are just a number,
a table number. And yeah, to create more personalized experiences, so more table preparations, as you said. I think that's very nice and you don't need an army for that.
So if you have a decent side restaurant at the end, it's a business and you can sustain to run your business, but still create amazing business. memories. I think this will fill up your seats.
So I think more personalized experience, more true service to guests kind of engagement, that's for the long run and not just a trend to do something what everyone else is doing.
Copy things, copy, be inspired, but give your own twist. I think that's mainly it, more quality, more needs. services, smaller restaurants,
more personalized service, and there's room for new things like mixology with a certain percent alcohol. And yeah, I think it's nice. So the future's bright.
The future's bright, yeah. And then we were fortunate. The world is catering to Dubai from produce to amazing institutions or chefs.
coming here and I forgot to say I think education and there is so much investment by the government so credit to the government thank you to nurture and to educate people not only on the job they're amazing hotel management and restaurant management and beverage management platforms where experts have the chance to nurture to teach so So,
yeah, you don't need to go to Paris per se to study culinary art, or you don't need to be in Japan just to learn the best of sushi, because the people are here. It is exciting,
I have to say. There's so much going on. Right. Quick fire questions. I hope you're ready. Bring it on. First one. Favorite ingredient.
Chili. Ho, ho, ho. Any specific chili? Or are you just a chili lover? Heat, heat, yeah. It goes on every take. Sweet or salty? Sweet. Snickers,
you know. Red or white wine? Red. We're right. Top three culinary heroes? Kishelder, number one.
My grand patron chef will give me the chance to be a on a three -star level, sharing with him my mom, also number one, so we have two already. 100%. And I have to say Yoni Boer from Deliberaya,
I just experienced them. They give their heart to me, they give me the chance to be on a platform, they nurtured me, so I am thankful for life. Okay, so people who don't know you,
you're also Turkish descent. Yes. So, bitter bourdon. -ballon or Turkish kebab? - Just because I eat more bitter -ballon in Holland than kebab,
I'll choose bitter -ballon. - Okay, this is a trick one. Top three cuisines. - Top three cuisines. I don't know if it's a real cuisine. The number one for me is home food,
soul food. It just tastes good. - Love it. - Yeah. - Yeah. Second one. one, I think Japanese just for the purity, the cleanness, easy to digest,
but so nutritious and creative. And number three, I think Italian who doesn't like pizza and pasta. True story. True story. So can you please tell me or recall your funniest ever either kitchen restaurant incident that you were involved in or you witnessed?
witnessed directly, please You're not going to believe this but I will not mention the person's name or the restaurant But in one restaurant a couple of years ago. We had a regular guest and this gentleman was very charming and flamboyant Good -looking So in one week we made a mistake three times That's why briefings are important guys take note here here.
Two, welcome back to gentlemen. On his visit two days ago only, while he was entertaining three different ladies.
So we messed up so big that I believe the gentleman ended up being in the taxi going home alone. So that was in a way funny for us.
We giggled, but at the end we were like, "Guys, wow." it's important to know your guests and sometimes respect their privacy so yeah I will never forget this but he's still loyal I think there are many more but this is something comes up tomorrow right right very good very good what advice would you give to any so specifically what advice would you say to sort of business or restaurant owners who want to improve their
service standards service standards is Believe in every single employee and hire not on a CV on experience Hey,
you have the soft skills and hard skills. You are today because someone Put in so much knowledge knowledge, taught to you. May you fed up with the same information till you did it right.
Hire people young. Hire people young with less attitude, less been there than that, I will do this better. It's a matter of time. This is going to be toxic.
People going to show the people who are talented that there is no way for you to grow because I am here, have a. a podium, a stage where people can grow and I think with that you will retain people longer to your company because you believed in them and they will pay you back with loyalty and the food runner today is one of your restaurant managers in the future.
invest time in your people and don't hire on cv and experience, hire Higher character, higher heart. So John, it's interesting. Yesterday I read an article that quite soon when companies are putting job interviews forward on the CVs,
they no longer will no longer care whether you have a degree or not. It's all about the person, you know, so I think it's a fantastic point that you just mentioned. Now, this is going to be the toughest question.
Adil. So what advice would you give to a 16 -year -old Khalil Azhar? -Keep your eyes open. Say thank you to anything what people put in front of you,
good or bad. If it's shit, pick it up and make something nice with it. The world is yours. -Now, if people wanted to...
to get hold of you or have a look at cat, uh, which socials should they be looking? I think LinkedIn is the best because through LinkedIn if you go to Halilas are you have a lot of connections to whatever I do if it's Business related if it's passion related.
It's maybe an article or interview I was featured in or just nice read my team team is getting a lot of posts and WhatsApp messages for me saying,
"Hey, I read a nice article. Spend two minutes on this, please." So yeah, and LinkedIn, I think it will be the best. And from there, you can find me,
of course, Instagram, Facebook, I don't do much, but yeah. Okay, so I'll put all of that in the show notes so anyone can get ahold of yourself for the restaurant through the different platforms.
platforms. Now I just wanted to sort of have a quick recap because we've gone through a lot, you know, from again, your childhood memories to growing up in the restaurants,
doing your homework in the cellar, which I think is beautiful and unique. And I love that the different types of Michelin -starred restaurants that you've worked in, your knowledge, so many things.
Obviously, of course, a Maya group, what you guys are doing in Qatar. Qatar and congratulations on the second site coming up. With Amai, I think that's really, really exciting, and the rest of the things that are going to come up.
The challenge is the lessons that you're saying about true hospitality. I think that is a key point in one of our discussions here, because I think I feel that hospitality is,
as you said quite rightly, it's from the heart, and it needs to be all about that beautiful welcome and the post so follow up. I think that's another thing that people must do. Nurturing talent.
Again, you know, going through challenges, but also being patient. I think that's that's a big thing to say there. Briefings. Why? Why briefings are important and attention to detail.
Knowledge is power. That's right. So all that's left for me to say is a massive thank you for coming back onto the show after some. some time. You are my first ever guest back in the day,
so I'm really happy to have you back on. It's been absolutely phenomenal and sensational to have you back here. And honestly, the best of luck with everything else that you're going to do. And I really look forward to what you're going to do next.
Thank you, James. And I would like to congratulate you with your podcast and bringing us amazing stories, people, knowledge, and yeah, I will never forget that your food is memories.
Thank you. I told you there was a lot to learn. I feel that Halil is a walking encyclopedia when it comes to all things service and hospitality.
He has so many points that both hotels and restaurants should take note of because just by actioning some of these small but key points, everyone would know. benefit from,
including the guests and the workforce. Halil also touched upon an incredibly important and valuable point, which was about reaching out to friends or colleagues for guidance.
This is not just for your professional life, by the way, but also when it comes to your personal life. Having a small but tight -knit group of friends that you can lean on when times are tough is something that is invaluable to all of us.
There is no shame when it comes to... comes to asking for help. Now a big, big message to general managers, restaurant managers. I hope you really, really listened hard because there are so many key points for you and make sure to put them in place.
I have absolutely no doubt that Khalil will forever be pushing himself and his team to even a greater heights and the very best of luck for the second opening of Qatar. I hope you managed to learn a few lessons along the way.
I know I did, and perhaps really take away so many morsels of advice from him. I think it was truly an inspirational show for me. If you want to see more of what Halila's doing, I'll place all of the details in the show notes.
Now once again, and as always, a big thank you to JJ and the entire team at Podcast Now for producing this show, and don't forget you can now watch us on YouTube. And if you haven't already, make sure to follow,
share, and subscribe. I would just like to ask a small favour, if you like the show or think someone you know could learn a few lessons from the guest and the conversations we have here, please share the show wherever possible,
so that we can reach as many people as we can. And who knows, perhaps these episodes can inspire someone to take action and become the very best at what they do. Finally, a huge thank you to you for staying and listening to the entire show,
well done. You're so welcome. your support all of the time, every single follow, every single share really makes a monumental impact. So until next time, food is memories.