The Chef JKP Podcast
The Chef JKP Podcast
Marvin Alballi - The Hospitality Guru (E68)
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The Chef JKP podcast hosted by James Knight Paccheco features Marvin Alballi, a renowned public speaker, hospitality expert and best selling author of 'Restaurant Excellence'.
Marvin shares insights on his journey in the hospitality industry, discussing topics like childhood food memories, the importance of service and hospitality, challenges in the industry, and strategies for success.
Topics discussed:
· Marvin Alballi's Journey in the Hospitality Industry
· Insights on the Food Industry
· Strategies for Success in the Industry
· Building a Strong Brand and Providing Exceptional Customer Experiences
· Challenges in the Industry and Solutions
· Compassion and Empathy in the Restaurant Industry
Key takeaways and lessons:
- Combining service and hospitality is crucial for creating a positive customer experience.
- Focus on food quality, consistency, and effective marketing strategies for success.
- Avoid overwhelming staff with frequent menu changes and prioritize talent development.
- Emphasise compassion, empathy, and team motivation for a thriving work culture.
- Support Marvin Alballi's work and engage with his insights for inspiration in the hospitality industry.
You can follow Marvin on HERE
You can purchase his book, by clicking on the link - HERE
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and memories. Wherever you are in the world, whatever you're doing, I ask that you sit back and listen, and perhaps take away a few more sorts of advice. There will be laughter,
we're gonna get serious. Above all, lessons for life. You're listening to the Chef JKP podcast, and this is what you can expect on today's show.
- I ended up working at Chili's, which is totally different operating model, different culinary experience. a franchise world, right? Versus what I learned at school,
which was classic cuisine, classic sauces, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Like, so a strategy in the restaurant business should have,
in my opinion, the following fundamentals. People development should be part of your strategy. Succession planning should be part of your strategy. Creating menu items that are trendy,
simple, yet elegant at the same time. Staying relevant. Expansion. Reputation management. You should be not running a restaurant. You should be building a brand.
And you need to focus on several key parts at the same time. So for you to outperform the competition, I think that's the question. Absolutely. You have to be laser focused.
Let's break it down. Food quality. consistency, innovation, temperature, service, hospitality, pace of service,
menu knowledge, training, inspired team, innovation and creativity overall, in terms of service and food. And of course, every few years you've got to remodel,
the store has to look fresh all the time, marketing, not to be obsessed with it. and Facebook, but to be obsessed, word of mouth work for me. So think about marketing more of a reputation building exercise and being active in the community and building that image that at one point you don't need to spend a penny on marketing because people will come anyway.
As you know, here on the Chef JKP podcast, we love to push boundaries and discover the movies and shakers. shakers when it comes to the hospitality industry. The guest on the show today is one of the most sought after public speakers on the topic of business and hospitality.
His book, Restaurant Excellence, has been a number one best seller list on Amazon for several months and is an industry expert. Having helped and consulted on countless projects with some of the most prominent brands and figures.
within the hospitality industry. On the podcast this week, I talk to the one and only, Marvin Albali. We discuss all things food,
the difference between service and hospitality, what do restaurants get wrong, and how do we become the very best in a competitive industry? This is the type of conversation that as a listener,
you'll want to go back to. to and even take notes as there is so much valuable knowledge to digest. So buckle up and get strapped in. Marvin gives us a lot of valuable information and it is fair to say there is immense value from our chat.
So listen out for a story about a knock on the door. Time to rock and roll. Just before we begin, here are is a small message from this week's guest.
Hello, everyone. My name is Marvin Albali. I'm Amazon best -selling FMB author. If you like this podcast, follow, share and subscribe. Welcome back to the Chef JKP podcast.
And on the show today, you have Marvin Albali, best -selling author, global restaurant industry hospitality executive, and keynote speaker, no less. less. Marvin,
welcome to the show. - Thank you. Thank you for inviting me to the show. Thank you. - First things first, chief. First or favorite ever, childhood food memory. - Wow.
Ice cream, homemade ice cream. My mom used to make ice cream, which it takes forever to make, but that was what she did. And you know, when it comes to childhood, I have a mixed feeling.
'cause my dad is also a foodie. My mom is a foodie, but they were territorial. So when one of them was in the kitchen and the other one walked in, it was an argument. So,
just being candid here. - So what sort of foods would your dad like to cook? - Yeah, it's a great question 'cause my mom was more into making sweets and dessert.
And my dad was the opposite, spicy, savory, yeah, yeah, barbecue. Wow. So did you have a lot of that growing up throughout your childhood? Yeah, they loved to barbecue. They loved barbecue.
What sort of what sort of foods did they barbecue there? Steaks, vegetables, a lot of, you know, padron peppers, eggplants, tomatoes,
onions. Yeah, and I, you know, I learned it early on and I think probably know that when you grill tomatoes on onion, there is some kind of sugar content that increases in them. So it tastes even sweeter.
- Hmm, yeah. - And nowadays, do you still like to barbecue or you leave it to the experts a little bit? - My wife loves to barbecue and it's funny because I'll come back from work sometimes and I have only half an hour break and she's barbecue when I'm like,
(laughing) - Wait a minute. Are you territorial in the kitchen or she's the exec chef? She's the boss. Okay, fair enough.
So then growing up through your adolescence, what were the types of food that you were into yourself? Pancakes, anything that's home cooked, a pie,
a paella, something in a ragu, anything that that took? time to cook, any smoked chicken or beef. You know what I mean? I think food quality and food flavor develops in a certain way when it's cooked over a slow period with love and care.
That's absolutely true actually. Yeah. So you're into sort of more very comfort type foods, right? But occasionally, because I work 18 years of my life in the franchise world,
so I love to have a burger or chicken tenders or junk food, if you call it. - Okay, yes, but nowadays junk food can also be seen as a luxury as in with the ingredients that you have,
right? - True. - 'Cause it's developed so much. - True, you could pay in Dubai about 100 dirhams for a chicken sandwich. in Sheikshak, right, with fries and a drink. And you could also pay 50 somewhere else for a lower quality product.
You're absolutely right. So because it's quite interesting as to how that world's developed. Yeah, but it's the sourcing, it's the buttermilk batter. It's the quality of the ingredient, right?
Yeah. So then after high school, in education wise, what did you decide to study? Did you go straight into hospitality or was it more business led? No. - Now, so I started, a friend of mine,
let me tell you a quick story. So at the time, we're talking in the 90s here, there were no lyrics available on the internet. And I love the song by Leonel Richie. Hello,
the song, hello. And I wanted to get the lyrics. So a friend of mine goes, you know, at this five -star hotel that is a singer, he's got the lyrics, let's go get it. So, okay, let's go. So we go there, he gave us the lyrics,
and then the melody says, says, "Hey, guys, I'm short on two people. Can you just polish cutleries and, you know, clear some plates? That's all I need and I'll pay you." How old were you?
I was, like, 17. Okay. Okay, let's do it. Nice. Yeah, but then the amount of, this guy lied to us because the amount of forks and knives were, like, enough for an army. So, I was cleaning cutleries all night,
but I liked it. And I looked at it, and I looked at it, and I looked at it, and I looked at it, and I I looked at it, and I looked at it, and I looked at it, and I looked at it, and I looked it, and I looked at it, and I looked at it, and I looked at it, and I looked at it, through the window and it was a revolving restaurant, golden plated stuff and a lot of luxury and dignitaries.
So I said, you know, this is the world I wanna be in. I wanna belong, I wanna be, I wanna do this. - So that was the spark. - That was the spark, that was the spark. - Wow. - Yeah.
And then I went to a hotel school, my family sent me to a hotel school in Europe. and it started from there. So now I want to talk to you about the hotel school. How long were you there for,
first of all? Three and a half years. Oh, so it was a serious stint? Yes. Yes. So tell me, talk me through the syllabus. What did you have to do throughout that time? Yeah, everything. So it's a hotel school.
So we did culinary, service, housekeeping, front desk, management. management, marketing. We even had courses on economics,
psychological pricing. It was wonderful. And it was all done by the American Hotel and Motel Association out of Michigan. Wow. Yeah. So you must have learned a huge deal throughout that time.
I mean, that's a massive amount of information to take in. Sure. And what's interesting. So I started when I started my career. career at James, I still remember, I still have the books till now.
Whatever I travel, I take with me all my books from university. So one of them was about culinary, and what we learned was about Iskofiye, and Chef Karim, Maria Antoine Karim,
so back, so far in the history, right? And the classic cuisine, but after graduating, I worked at several fine dining restaurants, and there I worked in the culinary world. then I ended up working at Chili's,
which is a totally different operating model, different culinary experience, a franchise world, right? Versus what I learned at school, which was classic cuisine,
classic sauces, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Because I was going to say, you know, obviously, you're coming from that sort of hardcore hotel school and then that big change into Chili's.
Chili's. I just wanted to ask you back then in your experience, we know what Chili's is all about, but for you, what did that lay down in terms of groundwork for your future career because all the SOPs,
everything had to be in its place. I mean, it's not an easy thing to do to actually run a monstrous franchise model. So can you run me through that? - That's a great question, James. Chili's in the '90s was instill it.
part of Brinker International. Brinker International, a Dallas -based company, is a Fortune 500 company. - Right. - In the '90s, James, we used to do $200 ,000 a week.
- A week? - A week! - In the '90s, 45 minutes waiting time. - That's crazy. - 65 menu items. If Chili's taught me something, and I'm very thankful to Kim Nunley and Kathy Murphy and Don Reagan,
'cause they inspired me. me and Chef Brian Clojie, who later became the executive chef of Chick -fil -A. What they taught me. How to achieve consistency with 65 menu items.
One, two, how do you train a food server within one week? Which would never, ever work in the restaurant business. Chili's is, in the '90s, was an incredible model.
It was a well -oiled machine. It was incredible. incredible. I took what I learned at Chili's James, and I implemented that later on at Applebee's, at Fudruckers,
in the hotel industry. What I achieved with the inner continental hotel group in terms of the highest trip advisor rating, the highest breakfast satisfaction rating, since inception of the brand,
increasing social media followers from 65 ,000 to half a million, consistency, quality was all unthankful to Chili's and Burger King, which in the hotel industry,
they look down at those concepts because they're more from luxury. Say, "What is this guy coming from Burger King and Chili's to teach me?" Chili's and Burger King and Applebee's teach you consistency,
commercial aspect of running the business. Simplicity, unbelievable. How do they simplify? I think it was unbelievable. I mean, I'm trying to get my head around it. it, Marvin, because it's quite a...
I mean, if I sort of strip back the food and that sort of thing, throughout your time in Chili's and these other brands, what would you say was the...
I mean, because I think the SOPs and the consistency was laid out, so the foundation was absolutely there. What would you say was the biggest challenge amongst you running these huge teams?
Let me know. Burger King I led I was based in Miami and I led all of Western Canada 66 restaurants but they didn't report to me that's 22 franchise owners right so my job as a corporate person as a corporate employee was to go support the owners provide the know -how analyze the P &L and it was very commercial but there was also you know quality part of it so when you'd go every three months to a restaurant and
conduct 360 evaluation. So that would be food, service, marketing, P &L. It was incredible because you're a coach, right? And then sometimes you meet a franchise owner who's got 11 restaurants doing extremely well.
It's got no problem with reinvesting money in the business. And then sometimes you see an immigrant who came to Canada and opened only one restaurant and you get-- tell him, "Hey listen, next week you got to buy digital menu boards because that's what the head office is doing." And he's like,
"He looks at you, he's kind of want to kick you out of the store because he's got no money." So it was an interesting experience. That must have been quite amazing also from a man management perspective,
just to sort of also culturally, you must have opened your eyes a lot. For sure. And driving in Canada to play where I've never been before, like Moose Jah and Fort McMurray,
where the temperature can go as low as minus 20 and minus 30, and my car-- - It's also coming from Miami, but it's quite nice. - In Vancouver, it rains a lot, so there's not much snow.
So I still remember in Edmonton, for whatever reason, my car was skidding in every single direction you can think of. So you can tell this guy's a tourist or a visitor, (chuckles) He doesn't know that I'm in the snow.
- Wow. - So it was a cultural experience, it was a business experience, but I'm extremely thankful for these experiences. - And the other thing I wanted to ask you because I'm really interested in this is in other continents,
service and hospitality, rather a lot more than this region, you can tell me if I'm wrong. In other territories, such as Canada and North America, America, service is a huge deal.
And what I mean by that is that I found when I was across, and it didn't matter whether it was a Burger King or a high -end fine dining, they are extremely engaging with the customer,
even in the bars. Yeah. Why, where does that culture come from? Yeah. And I wrote about this in my book. In the Middle East, or internationally, food matters more in North America.
America service matters more it's interesting you don't get a lot of service in fast -food restaurants like at a Burger King or a Chick -fil -A or McDonald's you really don't it's anyway it's not based that way right but at a Chili's or an Applebee's or an Outback steakhouse you do and it matters and you're lucky if you get a great food server and you do get great people with great personalities who make the experience
even better right But you also get a lot of people with negative attitude. So if you get great service, that's a good day. So yeah, service matters because also in North America,
as you know, James, a food server would handle six to eight tables. And they're doing everything. They're doing everything. So if you get great service, that's awesome. Because I mean,
especially if we move across to here our waiters only just doing One job really three and three to four tables and it got buses and runners right an army right Whereas as you said quite rightly said in other parts of the world This waiters running the drinks doing the coffee running the desserts.
I mean even plating desserts. Yes. Yes, you know So so I just found it quite interesting that that it's very different Right, but what I enjoy when I go back to North America or even to Europe, I enjoy interacting with food servers who has great personality.
- Right. - 'Cause they make their experience a lot better versus a transactional, somewhat boring and transactional service where you get somewhere else.
- So then after North America and Canada, how did the journey come about for you to go back to Europe? be within the Middle East and have this incredible time with ISG and rather a senior role?
How did that come about? LinkedIn. So I was on LinkedIn, a recruiter found me and he said, "We have this opportunity." So Intercontinental Group is looking for someone who's not from the hotel business for a reason because they believed that if you come from a franchise world or independent restaurants,
you have more commercial skills. Because in the hotel business, FNB directors tend to focus more on quality. They know they have great knowledge when it comes to champagne and you serve from the right or from the left and that.
They have that knowledge. But what I found having consulted for many hotel companies besides IHG, in the hotel business FNB directors, lack a huge amount of commercial drive or knowledge.
So the inner clientele said, listen, we're looking for someone like you with a commercial background. Would you like to come and join us in Dubai? So it was a no -brainer. I took the job,
moved the family. My son was 13 years old at the time. It was difficult to do that. - It's a big move. - It's a big move. But it was a great move because...
suddenly I'm working with Jason Atherton and Pierre Gagnier and overseeing the opening of Gaston Acourio in Intercontinental Doha. And later on, they added Europe and Japan to my portfolio.
So we had Gordon Ramsay in France. So I'm very, very fortunate because I learned, there are very few people, James, who work, if you work at Burger King and McDonald's,
chances are you're going to continue. and work for Hardee's or you're going to work for Chick -fil -A and you're going to continue there. If you worked in a hotel, chances are you're going to continue working in the hotel business.
I happen to have worked in all the categories and that helped me write a best -selling book because I look at it from a different perspective. So,
you know, because I opened 9 Carey Book Coffee, 7 Marble Slab Creameries, so with Carey Book Coffee, Book Coffee, I learned the coffee business. With Marble Slab Creamery, I learned the ice cream business. With chilies and applebees,
the fajitas, the nachos, this kind of food. With Burger King, fast food, expansion scale. Then you go to the hotel business, and you've got ethnic restaurants and fine dining and Michelin star,
and you learn the finesse and the innovation and quality. So I am extremely fortunate, extremely fortunate. So, tell me about your... your first week's Induction in the company because you have your extensive background But now you have to learn anything and everything to do with hi -hg.
So how was that first of all? I had to lose the khaki pants and The t -shirt and wear a suit and tie right right pocket square right And you know in the beginning many people did not take take me seriously 'cause you know,
who's this guy who's coming from Burger King and Chili's? 'Cause here's an interesting fact, James. Many executives in the industry don't know the difference between Chili's or Burger King.
I actually spoke to one VP about a year ago and that person didn't know the difference. So I'm gonna, for our readers, for our listeners, I wanna break it down a little bit. - Yeah. - So you've got the QSR fast food.
food, Burger King McDonald's, then you've got Fast Casual, Five Guys Shake Shack, Chipotle, then you've got Casual Dining, Chili's Applebee's, then you've got Premium Casual,
then you've got Fine Dining, and then you've got Michelin Star. A lot of people mix up between Fast Casual and Fast Food. Right. People say, "Oh, yeah, yeah, you know, Five Guys Fast Food Restaurant." It's not a fast food restaurant.
If you're getting a burger in 12 minutes, that's not fast. food. Right. And it's a gourmet burger or a higher priced burger. So a lot of people don't know the difference. So I was perceived as a fast food guy because I worked for Chili's,
which is not fast food whatsoever. So because also that must have been quite tricky. You've got, as you said, you've got these VP, these execs, they've been in the business or in the region for a long time. And then you're coming in and they must have felt a bit like...
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I heard it in meetings. meetings. I was like, oh yeah, the hard of fast food guy. There are nasty people in this world. And so I did hear it,
but I proved them wrong because I delivered 39 % gross operating profit for that company. - Well, that's huge. - That was the highest ever we achieved. - So what was your strategy then in the beginning?
You had the induction, you met all of these weird and wonderful people. people. What was the initial brief for you to come over and was it to elevate the service, the hospitality? Was it more about the numbers?
I had four KPIs. Revenue, growth, and in the hotel business to use the term revenue, in the restaurant business we say sales, right? Sales growth, profitability, guest experience and quality.
These four. So I had to work with about 300 chefs. executive chefs, right? To make sure we have great quality, so I created a WhatsApp group of 200,
similar to yours, similar to yours, 250 chefs, right? And then here's an interesting project that I created and very proud of.
So post -COVID James, the company focused on cleanliness score and breakfast satisfaction score. For all of us. hotels worldwide. So I developed a manual for about 250 items that tells you it's called quality identifiers.
So let's say croissant, croissant shouldn't be burnt underneath, should have lamination on top, should be soft in the middle and so I worked with about nine chefs and we created an SOP,
not an SOP, quality identifier description, what great look like for every single item. And then I rolled it out in all the hotels. And then we achieved the highest satisfaction ratings ever.
It was several initiatives on service. You remember at that time, social distancing and all of that, but also I wanted to improve quality. So these are kind of projects that I worked on.
And then I did something really even more cool. So I did a program called Chef Exchange Program. Program. So, what's a chef exchange program? So, if we are doing an Indian night in Dubai,
I would fly a chef from India, from the Intercontinental Hotel, who's well known to Dubai, to launch that three night of Indian food.
You know what I mean? Like kind of a theme night. Yes. So, I started pushing the hotels to send chefs from one hotel to another. so what that created excitement for both chefs,
learning, great for marketing, great for the market because suddenly people are talking about us and I then I created something even more exciting called shock advertising.
Okay tell me about that. Alrighty so we did this at the Intercontinental Festival City so I said book a table with us and get a chance to win a meal for four catered to you in the middle of the ocean on a private boat by our executive chef." So I wanted to change the traditional marketing.
I wanted to change the thinking and do something completely out of the box. Because you know, James, with traditional marketing, you ain't gonna get nowhere. If you want results,
you really have to think outside the box. Especially here, because there's so much competition. Yes, right? So so not an easy thing to do. Yeah So you must have seen so many different concepts Overseen so many hotels general managers dealing with potentially shareholders.
So after all of that What I wanted to also discuss with you, of course, you've got this amazing book but the question that I'm asking you and many of the industry's best are also,
they know that you're coming on, so they're asking me to ask you. For you, can you define for me the massive difference between service and hospitality?
- Sure, sure. You know, Danny Meyer talked about this, and I have a different approach to the explanation. Service, for me, is a function. You know, service, for me, is a function. You know,
you pick up two dishes from the pickup window, you bring it to the table, it's a function, right? You bring forks and knives, you refill wine, you refill water, it's a function. Hospitality is a feeling.
I remember your name, your favorite table, I ask about you and your family, I make you feel welcome. So in all my training and all the work that I do,
I never talk about service alone. I always... always say service on hospitality, service on hospitality, service on hospitality, until this becomes part of the DNA of any company that I work for,
because you can't separate both, you can't and people do that. - So for example then, a service could be as easy as in a bank doing a transaction because that's it,
right? Like a cashier for example, but hospitality essentially is really making somebody feel welcome. welcome, like they're coming to your house and you're giving them a big hug, essentially,
right? Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. But it's, we teach a lot in the industry, in hotels, in independent restaurants, in the franchise world, we spend a ton of time teaching service,
but very little time teaching hospitality. It's a really good point. Yeah. It's a really good point. Because you're right. everyone's doing the service, the transactional thing,
but they're not really doing the "how are you today" or "welcome back", "great to see you again", "I'll get you your favorite drink". Yeah, how's your daughter, how's your family, happy to see you again,
you don't see that. Because I was talking to, again, many chefs and many CEOs and hospitality professionals and the thing that I learned very early on.
on is that it doesn't matter whether the food is good or bad, right? The only reason you really want to come back to a place is because of that person who's made you feel so welcome and they've had a rapport with you and you just think,
you know what? I want to go there just to see this guy or girl, whatever. And because they've made you feel so amazing, this is absolute key, but... But throughout any of the talks that I've seen or heard,
you are absolutely right. And you've touched upon a huge point, which is nobody really teaches you hospitality. Why is that? - I don't know the answer to that, but I wanna go back to your point about food.
You said that some people will come back because of service, even if the food is not great. Not all the time. Sometimes people will not forgive you for bad food. So I think, as I wrote,
in the book, the success formula is really great food, great service, great training, great atmosphere. These four, right? And you cannot discount any of them.
And you cannot get, you know, take out of that formula any of those pieces. You got to have them all together at the same time. But it's also not easy to get correct. No, but many people have demonstrated that they got it correct.
You know, you know them. You know, Mithos, Pitfire, or Fally Brothers, Zuma, right? They get good food, good service, good atmosphere. Yeah,
I mean, I just think I wish there could be more, especially when it comes to not just within the restaurant industry itself, but also within colleges in the region,
to talk about that hospitality piece, because I just think it's it's, we're missing a trick. - Oh yeah, and don't let me get started on the hotel schools. (laughing) - Please. (laughing) - Because hotel schools,
I teach you the wrong upselling. In our industry, there are about four or five, even more principles that are taught incorrectly. Upselling is one of them.
Hostess procedures are not another. Pre -shift briefing is a third. Even sur-- certain recipes We have a problem because you get people who graduate from hotel schools, right? That can make a Caesar salad You've seen I'm sure you've seen it.
Yes. Yeah table -side. Yeah. Yeah How so how in your opinion, how do we tackle that? We got to move away from the theory and and you know and Learn from the best operators.
I think it's the hotel Okay job is to go to the best operator and say, "Hey, listen, how do you do it? "Show me, please." So to have the humility to go to successful restaurants and say,
"Show me how." Because it's not about carrying five dishes or fine. When I started in the hotel school, we were showing off to each other as students how many glasses of wine you can carry.
Remember ashtray times, how many ashtrays? It's not about that. that, it's absolutely not about that. When I hire people in the restaurant business, I never ask any skill -based questions,
especially for a front of the house. - What do you ask? - I ask personality -based questions. Tell me what your friends like and dislike about you. Are you a morning person or an evening person?
In your last performance review, what they said you need to improve. If I called your manager, what would he tell me about you? I want to figure you out. I want to figure you out. I want to figure out your personality because I need on my team optimistic,
cheerful people who are team players. I can teach you that red wine goes with meat and how to open a bottle of wine. That's not nuclear science. Those questions,
I think, are amazing, but my rebuttal to you would be those questions that you pose. Are they for line stuff or are they more for general managers or is it across the board?
Food server hostess. Right. Yeah. I mean, when it comes to management, then you got to ask P &L, inventory, scheduling, team motivation, it's different. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
So, from your line of work now, you know, you do a lot of incredible consulting globally. What's the most common thing at the moment that operators again?
getting wrong when it comes to hospitality, service, and perhaps numbers? Yeah, relying a lot on marketing. Many operators complicate their own lives with big menus,
complex menu items that were consistency suffer. So they create dishes, they put them on Instagram, but then you go after a week and the food doesn't taste the same, doesn't look the same.
Obsessed with social media, obsession with presentation overtaste, which is a big mistake. Single operators, lack of strategy. What does that mean?
A strategy in the restaurant business should have, in my opinion, the following fundamentals. People development should be part of your strategy. Succession planning should be part of your strategy.
Creating menu items that are trendy, simple, yet epic. elegant at the same time. Staying relevant, expansion, reputation management, right?
So, and of course, you know, from a commercial standpoint, profitability, revenue and all of that. But what I see with small operators,
it's all about the next menu rollout. - Okay. - And there is no strategy. - But in a market such as... what we have here in the UAE and you're a well -traveled guy,
how do you stand above the rest when it comes to all of those points that you quite rightly just said? I'm going to refer back to the book because our business is a business of a thousand details and you should be not running a restaurant,
you should be building a brand. And you need to focus on several key parts at this same time. So for you to outperform the competition, I think that's the question. Absolutely.
You have to be laser focused. Let's break it down. Food quality, consistency, innovation, temperature, service, hospitality, pace of service,
menu knowledge, training, inspired team, innovation and creativity overall, in terms of service and food. food. And of course, every few years you've got to remodel,
the store has to look fresh all the time. Marketing, not to be obsessed with Instagram and Facebook, but to be obsessed with where the word of mouth works for me. So think about marketing more of a reputation building exercise and being active in the community and building that image that at one point you don't need to spend a penny on marketing because people will come anyway.
anyway. So that's how you outperform. You gotta have that, you gotta be laser focused on quality and people development 'cause it's a business of people. We are in the business of people serving food.
I'll repeat that. We are in the business of people serving food. - I think that's what often a lot of operators or owners or managers forget is about the people piece and the service hospitality part.
They're just focused on the marketing. marketing and but if you get the basic fundamentals right, it's like building a house, you have to have everything in place first,
the base. I was talking to a famous operator here with about seven restaurants and expanding really fast, an amazing group and I told them fast expansion can hurt you because you lose focus on the details,
on guest experience and throughout my career, every company that I worked for that expanded fast, lost on guest experience and reputation, you have to be very careful.
It's double -edged sword, right? So I was telling them, you need the DNA. You need to create that DNA. You need to create training teams, trainers, people who safeguard and protect the brand, people who don't allow shortcuts,
people who, if they see a salad missing an ingredient, they'll push it. back to the kitchen. If they see a food server with poor greeting, they'll address it. You need to create ambassadors throughout the company.
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Now back to the episode. So, Marvin. for those people who have not had the chance or haven't bought the book, why was it important to write the book and tell me all about it,
please? Do you have time? Absolutely. There are several reasons for writing this book. The first one, as I said, on top of this conversation, in the beginning of this conversation,
it's the experience and the exposure that I had for every single... single category of the industry. Formula One, catering, ice cream, coffee,
casual dining, fast food, Michelin star. And I said, you know, I developed a different way of thinking. I wanted to share it with the world. The second reason, and I saw this happening a lot in North America,
a lot of people immigrate to North America and they put all their life saving into opening a restaurant. For it to fit. two to three years later. So you basically,
it's basically a destruction of their livelihood, right? And I thought it has to be a better way. Someone need to write about this, someone need to talk about this. That's an amazing thing to do.
Yeah, and you know, some people told me, "You're crazy. You shared everything you know in this book. There are many consultants now that are using your book that are using your book." There are many people in the business who are taking it.
I say, I don't care. You know, people can copy all they wanna copy. That wasn't the purpose of writing the book. I had another goal in mind. - So how long was the actual writing process from the time you thought,
do you know what? I'm gonna write a book. - Wow. - To the time, it got published. - Three and a half years, two editors, one graphic designer. one photographer, 28 people reviewed the book.
Yeah, I am perfectionist sometimes. My wife says that all the time. In the kitchen, barbecuing. Yeah, I'll tell you. So for example, if you take the marketing chapter,
it was reviewed by Jeff Slutsky, Lucy Toddish, and Catherine Quick, former white spot Restaurants Canada. So what I did, I wanted to write the best book that was ever written on the business.
That was my goal. I set the bar so high that it took me three and a half years. So in the kitchen chapter, about seven or eight chefs gave me feedback on it. But I wrote everything,
but I made sure and the finances is the same thing with the design, Bina Pollock, she designed more than 35 brands. in North America. Terry Chu ran 300 restaurant company from a construction and design standpoint.
Brian Tappen, former Cheesecake Factory, Applebee's great friend of mine. So I say, listen, this is the design chapter. What do you think? Few people slapped me around and came back, oh, add this, this and minus this and that.
So then, but then it came up to be such a, I'm not saying it because it's my book. No, no, no, you can see that on, on, on Amazon. reviews. - Number one bestseller. - For eight months. So people are saying,
you know what? Many owners said, I wish I had this book before I opened my restaurant. Because you, in the design chapter, you will avoid mistakes that will cost you thousands of dollars. - But,
I mean, as an example. - Yeah, it's a huge amount to sort of pour into this book. - Yeah. - You know, but you're absolutely right. People can copy all they want, but there's only one thing you can't do.
of you, right? But but I wanted to sort of ask you at the same time even with the book Do you have plans to write another one in the future? Yes, sir So I so the first book was a how -to book my second book which I'm writing now is more of an inspirational storytelling book and I found people connect Sometimes people get bored with like for example in the kitchen chapter of the book book,
I talk about a system called the line check. The line check is a system that helps you with consistency. Some people are bored when they read that, especially if they are from front of the house. So I'm going to write another book where it talks about the challenges in the industry,
success stories, people whom I worked with and inspired me. I want something more inspirational. I think that's amazing. Yeah. So then, again... when you're coming into a space,
so let's say theoretically I have ten different concepts under one restaurant group but I'm struggling and I want you to come and have a look. And if people have never worked with you before and they've seen your profile,
they've read the book but they actually physically want you to be involved, take me through that process please. Yeah. So first thing first, I do my homework. So I try to understand as much as I can,
what customers, sorry, I apologize for the word customer, what guests think of, in my book, I am against the word customer in the business. - Everybody is a guest. - Okay, so say, you know,
what guests think of your restaurant? Why are they coming back more often? What's your positioning? And then meet with the food servers and managers and gather-- gather as much information as I can before I provide any,
share any advice, right? So that's how the process start. And then normally I find problems with consistency or marketing or positioning. There's a lot of restaurant positioning mistakes.
- What does that mean? Take me through the positioning part, please. - Yeah, so you know, you're a casual dining restaurant and but you're positioning yourself as a fine dining restaurant from there. way the staff behave,
from the SOPs you created, from the uniform. - Is that quite common? - Yeah, yeah, especially in the hotel industry. - Right. - So they reposition often, and that's a mistake actually,
because the more you reposition, the more you confuse consumers. So let's say you're running a bar that is American, that's positioned as an American bar, and then a new general manager comes to the hotel and-- takes over as a new GM.
He goes, "You know, I want to improve performance. Let's reposition this outlet. Let's make a European bar." Now, when you reposition, you delete menu items. And let's say my favorite item was the mushroom Swiss burger.
And you took it away as a customer, as a guest, you took away my most favorite item from the menu, so you lost me. And then all the money that you spent spent over the last 10 years telling everybody I'm an American bar is all gone to the garbage because now you're telling everybody I'm a European,
we are a European bar. So, and here's the reason I bring this up 'cause there are many corporate office F &B directors who will go and tell restaurant owner,
sorry, hotel operators, your revenue is declining. Please go ahead and reposition the outlet. That's the worst, that's the worst advice. you can give anyone. Wow. You're talking my language,
Marvin, because I used to be an exec corporate chef. And this used to happen all the time. So then, if we just stay on the positioning piece for a little bit,
instead of repositioning the restaurant to something else, what are the key things that you should focus on in order to get everybody back on track? - Yeah, so you do the analysis.
So if the analysis is telling you, the team needs more training, the experience, we're not wowing guests. And I have another formula I'd like to share with you.
Average experience equals average sales. Good experience equals good sales. Wow experience equals wow sales.
- But it sounds so simple. Marvin. Why isn't everybody doing it? - That's it. Why aren't we going to the guest and wowing them? Do you have SOPs? Are the employees empowered to wow the guests?
It doesn't exist. Very few do that. I mean, the restaurants that are successful are doing that. They really wow you. But the ones that are struggling, they're missing this piece completely.
So this is one piece, right? - Yes. - Let's see. - Let's go to food. Oh, food, I have stories, James. I can write a third book. - Maybe you should. - A menu that's full of flowers and steam and small gun and presentation,
but doesn't taste good. A restaurant owner who wants to cater to everyone, but it doesn't work that way. He wants, you know, oh, what if vegetarian people didn't come to-- to my restaurant?
What if Asians didn't come to my restaurant? I want to have Asian food and vegetarian food and meat. You can't do that. You have to focus on what you are and go with it.
If you think of five guys, it's only one item. It's a burger. If you think of Chipotle, it's only one item. It's a burrito. You know what I mean? This is the biggest mistake I see.
You can't satisfy satisfy everybody. You can't confuse everybody. And then of course, complex menu, consistency is a huge problem, procurement is another. If we continue with the kitchen,
lack of skill, actually James, I find that there's 70 % more training in front of the house than back of the house. I don't know why chefs don't train other chefs.
- In what way do you mean? - Yeah, so for example, in front of the house, every day. all the food servers will gather I'll say okay here's a menu item this is how you sell it this is how you describe it this how it tastes let me show you how to handle the guest complain this is how you process a credit card in back of the house I rarely saw a chef telling someone hey come here I'm gonna show you how to grill
a great steak oh or guys let's all let's talk about making great mashed potatoes how do we make it let's I want everybody here I want the big baker. I want the grill guy.
I want the fry guy. I want everybody, but I want to talk about this item. It doesn't happen. - So essentially it could just be like as simple as a briefing. - Yeah, but it doesn't happen. The briefing in back of the house. Today we have 70 bookings.
We're out of tomatoes and the grill is broken. Have a great day everyone. (laughing) I don't know. I'm not exaggerating, I'm talking real life 25 years in the business.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah. then you wonder why Applebee's and Chili's and I'm talking about Applebee's Chili's United States with all due respect to the region. Why are they successful? Are they consistent?
Because this kind of shift briefing I mentioned to you earlier, where you take one menu item and you focus on it, that's what you do in back of the house or out of the house. So we talked about service,
we talked about food, marketing all over the place, we always find people spend a a ton of money on influencers who charge you a lot of money and come to your restaurant and order everything on the menu and you see no revenue increase,
no increase in revenue. I am a big fan of LSM, local store marketing. Bounceback cards, growing your database, going to the neighborhood,
going to schools and embassies. My approach is to marketing is entirely different. So that's what I see. And of course, as we mentioned, a vision and a mission for the brand. I mean, there's a lot to digest there,
but I think it's amazing. But during that time, I was just also wanting to ask you, I can imagine also, and I need your sort of wisdom on this,
you have the general manager or the major D of the restaurant, you have the general manager, You have the executive chef, F &B director, plus the team. Everybody is in sync. What happens when the owner or the asset manager comes in and starts saying,
"No, I think we should do this. I think we should do that. There's advice going on. Listen, we don't believe it's going to work, but they are overpowering." How do you manage those particular individuals?
Yeah, you don't face this problem with independent and franchise franchise restaurants, right? This question is related to hotel restaurants. And that's why hotel restaurants struggle a lot 'cause there are 700 pilots for this one plane.
- Right, yes. - The FNB director, the chef, the owner, the asset manager, the owner, the general manager, the head of marketing has an opinion, the head of revenue has an opinion. - Executive housekeeper.
- Yeah. you're right. So how can we navigate through that? Because again, my huge bugbear, for me personally, is that I see hotels who have got phenomenal spaces,
amazing spaces, but constantly losing revenue. They're repositioning, they're not listening to the people who they hired to make that job.
So as, you know, like for example, the executive housekeeper. chef who who really understands What they can do to drive it better, but in your opinion, what can hotels do to really listen to their key members?
Hired the right FMB director and let him lead That's it. Yeah, give him this give him space to make mistakes and Room to succeed you can you can't you know overall his decisions.
What's the point of hiring that person? Right, you know so this is an important piece because there's lack of direction in the hotel business. - And also with, I think there are around 155 star hotels just here in Dubai.
- Yeah, and they keep on, I mean, they keep telling me, oh, I'm amazed how independent restaurants do it. Well, independent restaurants are focused. They are not changing the, they're not repositioning every other day.
And they're definitely not changing the menu every week when the revenue declines. In the hotel business, here is a fun, sad, and funny cycle. So here's how it works.
So revenue struggles. They say, "Okay, let's hire a new chef." So they fire the chef, they get a new chef. A new chef comes in, the first thing he does, deletes the entire menu, launches a new menu.
So all the loyal guests that we had, now none of their favorite items are on the menu. So revenue increases. for about a couple of weeks. There's excitement, there's marketing. By the third,
fourth week, revenue drops again. Then what do they do? Oh, change the menu again. They change the menu one more time. Then they change the menu, change direction. Then after two months, what do they do?
They fire the chef again. Or they move them to another outlet. This is what happens. It's all about changing the menu. And every time you talk to a chef, there's a solution to declining revenue.
revenue is changing the menu. It's actually the worst solution. I always tell them, "Less is more, focus on few great dishes, outperform the competition,
make menu items that will wow people, not necessarily complex in terms of flavors, right? Do not change direction so much." Wow. Because also, you're absolutely right,
so if I take a key hotel here at the moment that we just had a huge opening and it's been highly publicized is the Atlantis of the Royal. They have seven key restaurants and they all have very specific key marketing.
But what I do like about it is the fact that the hotel doesn't get involved. The chef is the chef, the menu is the menu and that's it. We're not gonna get involved in the point.
of what's happening within the hotel. This is what we do, and that's it. And it's worked extremely well. Yeah, and you know, every time you change menu items, you put a huge pressure on the kitchen and huge pressure on front of the house.
Now you've got to retrain everybody on menu knowledge, right? You've got to retrain everybody in the kitchen. And sometimes what I see, they overload certain equipment and underload the other. Right. So it becomes heavy on the fried up.
items when they have a 99 .99 % of the hotels have a super tiny frying vat for a menu that has 10 fried items.
It's crazy. Yeah, absolutely. It's crazy. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Marvin, the other one, which I think is huge, is as an industry, how can we attract better Absolutely.
Because the world is big, and there are huge amounts of restaurants everywhere, but it doesn't seem, something is not fitting. And what I mean by that is that we're not doing enough training,
we're not getting the right people in. What are we doing wrong when it comes to hiring? - Yeah, first of all, in most restaurants, it's a stressful experience. First week is a stressful experience for everyone because we're very poor in the industry.
process. We're bringing people in and they're by the grill station the second day. Yeah, that's wrong. One. Two. We don't train enough. Clearly, we don't train enough.
Back of the house, front of the house. This is the key word. This is the key item. We do not provide a career path. So what I would have done if I owned a chain of restaurants,
I would say you join us. us as a food server, then you become a food server trainer, then you become a supervisor, then you become an assistant manager,
then you become a manager, then you become an area manager. So I will show you a career path and I'll increase your salary in line with inflation or with your performance. So we don't do that.
And why do you think that is? As an industry? Yes, is it because is it a time thing? Is it that because we're time for for for small operators It's about labor cost right or lack of knowledge.
They're not even aware of this model that I just presented to you No, not at all. Yeah, not at all. Yeah, because there's a great deal of lack of knowledge in our industry massive I'm telling I am I was talking to senior people in the industry can't tell the difference between fast food and fast casuals So that's very scary when I'm hearing that,
to be honest. And these are big people. Yes, sir. So then the other one, which for me is also key, and you talk about it a lot and I completely agree,
is how do we as operators get better at the human sustainability part? Because we know that hospitality, we sacrifice a lot of personal time,
but what can we do? do as an industry again to attract the right people and sustain them? - Yeah, and you're absolutely right. Actually, when I was a restaurant manager, I struggled a lot.
I had sleep problems because shifts were changing, right? Opening shift, night shift. And this creates health problems, blood pressure, heart problems. You know, so how do we come up with flexible hours?
How do we work with our people to make sure that they have a healthy schedule? schedules? How do we, and there are companies like, again, I'm going to mention my previous employer in Canada, White Spot,
90 years old company. Average 10 years is 15 to 20 years with this company. One, seven years in a row among the 50 best managed companies in Canada. The way they,
the way they, they were always thinking about you and your family. They were always creating events for you and your family, giving you movie tickets. tickets, free food, days off, here and there,
acknowledging you. You come to the office on Chinese New Year, even though you're not Chinese, you'll find a card and chocolate. This is the culture. So this really depends on the organization,
right? - I think that's amazing though, really, 'cause you're absolutely right, 'cause you wanna feel part of something. And I think the one thing we are lacking is almost compassion and empathy with our teams.
- Yeah, I mean, I was working with a group of restaurant and they're very successful, but I was shocked. They all the time say us and them. I said, who us and them?
Us, the owners and the employees. I said, no, you're one. It can't be you and them. So there's this, you know, I don't know. No, this approach of this group,
is my team, it's like my family doesn't exist most of the time. But the ones, like, I was talking to Michel from Pitfire Pizza and Faye from Mythos,
and they really like that. They love their people. Michel at Pitfire Pizza, seven or eight employees tattooed the name of the brand on their arms. Unbelievable. But how amazing.
Yeah, but that goes to show how nice it is. how kind she is. I asked Faye about consistency in a Greek restaurant, which is extremely hard to achieve. She said, "Retention,
I have great retention "because she's super kind and caring, genuinely caring." - And the chef's been with her for a long time. - Yeah, and I know here are some successful chefs whom to be honest,
they don't impress me because of the way they treat their people. - Did you tackle any of that during your time with... IHG or any other operators? - No, because we had, we were kind of franchisee.
It was one rational was managed by us. All, he came like three, four times a year and that's it. - Right. - Yeah. - Right. - So then again, if I'm an operator, what would be your sort of top three tips to get the best out of a team?
- Oh, that's easy actually. Motivate, motivate, motivate every single day. day. Acknowledge, acknowledge, acknowledge. Never put anybody on the spot. Never. In private.
Coach people in private when they make mistakes. Okay. Praise people in public. So even if they've made a mistake? In private. In private. Imagine, imagine you are a restaurant owner and we have a get -together or a briefing and you say,
"Marvin, yesterday your customers at Table 40 complained on how slow you are." are. And you just started the shift. You lost me for the rest of the shift. - Yes, yes, yes. I got you. So that's what we need to do more of.
- Yeah, and I see this a lot, by the way, here in our region, unfortunately, yeah. Putting people on the spot and, you know, not understanding that people have feelings. - But I like what you said when we first started is about the coaching element,
because it is very much that's what it is, isn't it? You're essentially coaching a team. like a sport. You are. You are. You are a coach. You are on stage every single day as an owner,
as a chef, as a leader. That's a lot. Yeah. What are your sort of future predictions for the industry within the region? We're going to continue to grow.
At one point, we're going to hit saturation, and we are, in certain categories, saturated. and then it's going to be the survival of the best operators. Because when you hit saturation,
only the strong and well proven concepts will survive. And you're talking about, obviously, great food, great service, great everything, actually.
Being obsessed with the details. Yeah, that's what it is, you're right. Let me even simplify it, quality obsession. So I love that quality obsession. obsession. You're right,
you have to be obsessed with everything, to be honest. So now, Marvin, we have come to the quick fire questions. I specifically designed these for you. So,
first things first, are you a sweet or salty? - Sweet. - Pancakes or waffles? - Waffles with ice cream on top. (both laughing) (both laughing) - Fahita or salty?
No, fajita. Applebees or chilies? None of the above. I worked for both. None of the above. Look, molten chocolate cake at Chili's is a great product.
The blondie at Applebees is a great product from a dessert standpoint. What are your top three tips for restaurants in general? If you were to give one, two, three, what would be your top three tips? top three tips?
- Execute flawlessly day in and day out, develop your people, focus on quality, quality before cost. - Beautiful. Currently, what are your or who are your top three culinary heroes and they don't necessarily need to be chefs?
- No, I mean, there is one of them whom you interviewed on your show, Jason Atherton. Jason Atherton. had a huge impact on how I look at menus and design menus and culinary innovation.
Number one, his humble personality, his kindness. When we worked together at Intercontinental Marina, we had 28 dishes and we were super successful. So the lesson there,
less is more, give me 25 dishes that are amazing, better than 50 dishes that are average. average. - Yeah. Two others?
- Pierre Gagnier, whom I worked with. - A legend. - Also. - And there are many others actually, there are many other names, yeah. But I think we'll stick with those two for now.
- From all of your time in the industry, what would you say has been your funniest ever kitchen or restaurant incident that you've ever seen or been involved in?
in? There are many, but there is one that will never escape my mind. So I was an assistant manager at Chili's and I had an employee who was really very very slow in everything he does.
Fine, that's his personality. So one day I was preparing the staff schedule in the kitchen and in my office, then someone comes knocking on the door. I said, "Yes." come in so he waited like two minutes and he opened the door he goes it was mr.
Marvin the kitchen was on fire can I take my break I was like what no I jump and went to the kitchen and the fryer was on fire and then the staff not knowing how to put off fire they were using the wrong fire extinguisher for oil so it was increasing yes yes so I totally yeah "Yeah,
you can go on break." Then we called the fire brigade and all that, put it off. But that was, I will never forget that how this guy, the kitchen is on fire and he's like,
"Marvin, the kitchen is on fire." Can I take a break? Oh my God. Wow. That's a first. That's a first. I'm trying to think of it.
just look at that. - And one time this guy, and one time this guy. - Same guy. - Same guy. You know, we had fajitas, and fajitas come on really super hot skillets.
- Yes. - 450 Fahrenheit. - So they're like sizzling, right? - Yeah. Three times, he's supposed to have like a kind of towel. He's three times he would catch the handle without a towel, and he'd come to my office. (knocking) Marvin,
do you have any cream? I burnt my hand. (laughs) Oh my God. god He had an obsession with heat. I don't know. Wow What advice would you give for anyone?
Wishing to have a career in this industry front of the house where what what department absolutely front of house and hospitality Yeah, no. Yes, stay hungry for knowledge.
If you are a food server go and learn everything about the bar Learn about management. Go to YouTube. Do whatever it takes to learn and learn and develop yourself.
If you're in back of the house, go and steal recipes of the best chefs in the world and make them and make them better than those chefs. There's no finished line for making any dish.
If you make paella, say to yourself, "I want to make the best paella on earth." If you're making croissant, I want to make the best croissant that was ever created. Be hungry for knowledge and you will get there and position yourself in that way and you will be the best restaurateur that existed.
Love that. What advice would you give to 16 -year -old Marvin Albali? I wish I spent less and made more money and opened my own restaurants because I'm a spender.
spender and I didn't save my money. So I enjoyed life. Some people say that's great, but for me I would have loved to have my own restaurant and maybe it's going to happen one day. Yeah, I'm sure.
Yeah. I'm sure. So Marvin, I just wanted to a quick recap on the things that we have discussed because it's been incredibly extensive. From your childhood food memories, which I love, to then the types of food you had growing up,
education, full reign to hospitality. the three and a half years you did with an education and working across so many different sectors of the industry and learning so much,
to then you coming across to the Middle East, learning about a massive brand and really having a huge role and impact within the industry itself. And then all of the nitty gritty we went into about the restaurants,
the talent, sustainability, it's just been out there. phenomenal. Now, if I wanted to get hold of the book and get hold of you through social media, how can I do that?
I'm on LinkedIn and I blog often on LinkedIn. I have different articles. Marvin Albali. Albali is spelled as A -L -B -A -L -L -I on Instagram,
restaurant excellence book. You can find the book on Amazon, but on my website, we have a better deal. And I can provide you with a discount code for your own listeners.
Amazing. So what I'll do is I'll put all of that in the show notes as well. So thank you very much for that. Thank you. Thank you. Marvin, the only thing I wanted to say is the work that you have done and that you are doing is exceptional.
Really, I have learned in the short space of time that we've been together a huge deal. And I'm sure the listeners and people watching would have done that. Really, I just wanted to say,
please keep inspiring us. Please keep developing, keep writing the books because you're really changing lives. So on behalf of the ChefJKP podcast,
thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to be here. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do next. Thank you and thanks to you for leading the culinary scene in the U .S.
for bringing so many chefs together, for supporting so many people, for leading with your heart, for being a chef who cares about people and their goals and their aspirations.
I really appreciate you as well. Thank you. Thank you. How about that gang? Marvin was really able to break down so many key factors when it comes to full explanation.
explanation and understanding of how we can all take actions to better understand hospitality as a whole and even when people think they're scratching the surface just by doing a little bit more detective work they can get very surprising and fruitful results.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind Marvin is making a serious noise it doesn't matter the type of venue hospitality needs to be at the very forefront of the guest experience,
as this is one of the key factors for them to come back time and time again and to spend their hard -earned cash. I also love the fact that when Marvin first came to the region,
a few people saw him as a fast food guy, however, when it came to his job, he would prove and show him that he was a fast food guy, he was a fast food guy, he was a fast food guy, he he was a fast food guy, he was a fast food guy, he was a fast food guy, he was a fast food guy, he was a fast food guy, he was a fast food guy, he was far more than that.
To the point, he turned around not just the service culture, but also made the company a very hefty profit. Also, can you just imagine the pressure of dealing with so many corporates,
shareholders, team members and understanding the need of every single operation? Not easy to do, but Marvin's Marvin somehow managed it.
And don't forget, three years to also write a book. I must say, what a book. I absolutely loved it, and there is so much information. And by the way,
as I said, it doesn't matter the type of dining outlet, you can be extremely successful just by having and reading this amazing book. There are so many key tips to take away,
plus how to navigate the tricky waters of the industry. For me, honestly, this conversation really opened my mind, as I hope it did yours. Hospitality is not an easy place,
but Marvin makes it look super easy and helps you to understand it. If you want to see more of what Marvin is doing, as well as the link for his book, I'll place all of those details in the show notes.
A big thanks to you to JJ and the entire team at Podcast Now for producing the show. And don't forget, you can now watch us on YouTube. If you haven't already, make sure to follow, share and subscribe.
Don't forget to give us five stars, nothing less than five stars. I would also just ask a small favour, if you, if you love the show or you think someone else could learn a few lessons from the guests and the conversations we have,
don't forget to share. so that we can reach as many people as possible. And who knows, perhaps these episodes can inspire someone to take action and be the very best at what they do.
And finally to you, a big fat thank you for staying on and listening to the entirety of this show. Until next time, food is memories.