The Chef JKP Podcast
The Chef JKP Podcast
Season 6 - Episode 7 - Chang Sup Shin - 1004 Gourmet and Beyond!
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
The Chef JKP podcast, hosted by James Knight Paccheco, features a conversation with Chang Sup Shin, the CEO of 1004 Gourmet.
The episode delves into Chang's culinary journey, business ventures, the unique concept of 1004 Gourmet, strategic business development in the food industry, product curation, sustainability efforts, and advice for young professionals.
Topics discussed:
· Chang's Culinary Journey
· Business Ventures
· Unique Concept of 1004 Gourmetd
· Strategic Business Development
· Sustainability Efforts
· Advice for Young Professionals
Key takeaways and lessons:
- Childhood food memories and experiences play a significant role in shaping culinary journeys.
- Strategic business development, product curation, and customer engagement are crucial in the food industry.
- Sustainability efforts, both environmental and human, are essential for long-term business success.
- Advice for young professionals includes learning from mistakes, embracing passion, and holding oneself accountable.
- Creating a memorable shopping experience and community support are vital in the food industry.
You can follow Chang on HERE
The show is proudly brought to you by our partners Chef Middle East, you can follow them on HERE
Follow The Chef JKP Podcast on Instagram HERE
That's right. The podcast is now on YouTube, so you can watch all of the interviews at your leisure. At the same time, your contribution to the show by hitting that subscribe button makes a monumental difference to the show,
as you can keep inviting the guests you love and keep having the conversations that no one else is having. The only thing that I ask is that you share the show. Welcome to the ChefJKP podcast with me,
James Knight Pacheco. and memories.
Wherever you are in the world, whatever you're doing, I ask that you sit back and listen and perhaps take away a few morsels of advice. There will be laughter,
we're gonna get serious. Above all, lessons for life. You're listening to the Chef JKP podcast and this is what you can expect on today's show.
- At a younger age, when I was a teenager, I kind of wanted to be a hotelier until I also realized like it's a lot of work. You got to be traveling to different countries every couple of years.
And it sounds like an amazing job. But again, for me, I'm very lazy. That's the premise of today's podcast, How Lazy I Am. We wanted it to be kind of an experience,
right? So when you're coming in, we want you to enjoy spending your time there. Because when you go to a market, what do you want to do? You want to get in and get out. Get your product, get out. Again,
I think that's what a lot of people do in our shop. A lot of the new customers, they come in, they browse around, they ask questions, and you get a completely different experience to what's available online. Also, you have so many weird and wonderful things also in the cafe that you wouldn't necessarily have in a normal place.
Thank you. You know what I mean? So I think it is an experience and it is pretty cool. And also, from a chef's perspective, if you've never been there, it is like Aladdin's cave. I call it.
So we had to hire like 50 people on the spot and like our apex is crazy. We were doing well revenue -wise, but we were losing money every month. And then we ended up selling that business right before COVID,
which is like crazy. I think if we had that business, then it would have been very tough for us. So we've been kind of through that hump. And Through that, we also not just learned a lot, but also developed a lot of relationships with big companies because we're dealing with FMC Gina,
right? We're bringing in like 20, 30 containers of these products every year. So that was really good, but a big learning lesson. As you know, here on the ChefJKP podcast,
we love to push boundaries and discover anything and everything when it comes to all things hospitality. And today's guest is just incredible. He not only has one of the very best supermarkets,
he has also some of the most amazing super cool food concepts. On the podcast this week, I talked to Chang Stop Shin. We discussed 1004 Gourmet,
how he manages to run so many brands. We also discussed how he curates and what goes into the supermarket, as well as how super cool foodie partnerships are built.
Chang is an absolute legend and a super cool dude. And considering he is the CEO, it was fantastic to be able to spend time with him and really pick his brains.
By the way, he also brought in some products which will more than likely change your life. As an example, he bought these Japanese crisps that I can't stop thinking about. Thanks a lot Chang,
an insightful conversation with plenty of laughs, stories and inspirational food for thought. Listen up for a story about a chicken burger. Time to rock and roll.
Just before we begin, here is a small message from this week's guest. Hi, my name is Chang. I'm the CEO of One Thousand For War May. If you like the broadcast, make sure you follow, share and subscribe.
Welcome back to the Chef J .P. podcast. And on the show today, we have the man, the myth, the legend, and it's also the CEO of 1004 Gourmet,
the one and only Chang. Chang, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Really, really appreciate it. You're the first ever guest who's brought things onto the studio. So thank you very much.
It's such an obvious, blatant product placement. I'm shameless like that. No, it's good. I'm loving it. So before we get into this, please, can you tell me your first or favorite ever childhood food memory?
I would say my mom making kimchi at home. Obviously, we do a lot less of that nowadays, but it's called jokgeori and it's basically like the kimchi before it's fermented.
It's like fresh kimchi. So it's just marinated. So you take the chili sauce, you put it between the leaves and eat it straight away. So delicious. So it's not fermented at all? No,
no, it's fresh kimchi. So without the probiotics, but still very delicious. It's like a quick kimchi. And yeah, I think that was one of my first childhood memories. And my mom would always let me eat and tell me to comment on how it tastes.
And so she would kind of rely to me and my brother to kind of adjust the flavors as she's making it. I don't know if she really trusted my taste. Maybe she did to make me feel good, but it was a nice thing to have.
- Roughly how old are you when you first started tasting it? - Oh my God, I think, 'cause it's spicy, right? It's got a kick, maybe like seven, eight later on, a little bit later on in life.
- So that's what I wanted to ask you, because it's got a kick. - It does, it does. - So at that age, did you enjoy it, did you remember? - I did, I did. I enjoyed spicy food from a young age. My parents fed me chou gochujang,
which is a gochujang, like vinegar gochujang sauce, which we eat with raw seafood. - Oh wow. - So in Dubai, it died like 30 years ago, 32 years ago now.
There weren't a lot of options for seafood as we do right now. So it was usually salmon or tuna or something. So we would dip that in the vinegar, could share sauce and eat it.
And I would like overly dip it. I'm a very sauce spice oriented guy. So that kind of started at a young age. - Okay, yeah. - So then through your adolescent years, what were the sort of types of food that you would normally have,
whether it was street food or whether it was with family? - Oh, wow. You know, so my parents made it the thing to make sure we go out at least once or twice a week. So we would go to kind of old school restaurants in Dubai.
You know, in Saudi, when we're growing up, we'd go to kind of the commercial, like the pizza huts. You know, I grew up in Al -Ghres center. So like, you know, there was chicken tikka in back in the days. It was super delicious.
There was a Chinese palace, which unfortunately is not there anymore. It's one of my good friends Simon who also So, uh, uh, Chinese Palace was there, Shogun as well.
So, um, yeah, we, we went to a variety of different restaurants. Chinese Pavilion, where I'm going, actually, tomorrow or two day. Yeah. Again, old school restaurants in Dubai that we used to go to quite frequently.
-Spice Island. -Spice Island. I don't know if you guys know, uh, but that's... Tell us about that. Was it, I think it was Renaissance Hotel at that time, maybe something different, but it was one of the first, like, proper brunch places,
but night time brunch. So we went there so many times, they actually gave my father an award for like being a frequent guest. - Amazing.
- So yeah, yeah. - So then as you got into sort of more higher education. - Right. - You already were a fan of food, but then you went into sort of, and to study business.
- Yeah. - Why was that of all. I'm going to be honest. I'm way too lazy to be a chef. I think it takes a huge tall on your body. You got to work long hours and I just don't have that in me to be honest.
So I think that was never a question that I had in my mind at a younger age when I was a teenager. I kind of wanted to be a hotelier until I also realized like it's a lot of work.
You got to be traveling to different countries every couple of years and It sounds like an amazing job, but again, for me, I'm very lazy. That's the purpose of today's podcast,
how lazy I am. But then you went off to the US. I did, yeah. Tell us about that time and specifically, again, I want to know the types of food that you had during your time there.
I mean, if you're a student, you got no money, So I still remember there was this place that we're selling three medium pizzas for $5 each or something.
I mean, were they tasty? They might have been really good. - It was amazing. I mean, look, at that time your palate is not as developed, but also you're hungry. You have a much higher metabolism. So I used to order that a lot.
There's a place called Uncle Chen's. It's like the old school, American, Chinese spots, again, like $8 for like a big bowl. When we saved up a little bit or wanted to spoil ourselves,
we'd go to the Korean restaurants because it's a little bit on the pricier side. We used to go to a lot of Vietnamese places because we're like always hungover every morning. We went before Sriracha was famous,
you know what I mean? So, yeah, I used to like Douse my father and Siracha and the Hoisin and just like relieve my hangover. And where in the U .S., Pennsylvania? Penn State.
Penn State, okay. Penn State, it's like 150 or 67 years ago now. Philadelphia and Pittsburgh wanted to build Pennsylvania State University in their own cities, but they couldn't come to an agreement.
So the arbitration was like, let's build it in the middle, which was the worst idea, like pick one. So It was between literally mountains in the middle of Pennsylvania, in between the two cities, like three hours away each.
I don't know if they measured it. But it was, I went from like living in Dubai, where it was like 50 degrees Celsius to like minus 30. So that was a fun transition, stayed indoors a lot,
honestly. But yeah, Penn State, it was a good time, man. Wow. Yeah, very good time in my life. So then what I wanted to sort of understand is, How long were you studying for business -wise?
Four years. Four and a half, actually, in the summer. But yeah, graduated four and a half years. In the U .S., when you have a student visa, they give you an additional year to kind of get experience in your field.
So at that time, my brother was in New York starting in Parsons in an art school, who's now a chef, by the way. And when he was living in Union which is like center of New York.
- Yeah. - He was living in the dorm, and I was kind of, you know, crashing with him. And in like two weeks, I found a job as a real estate agent. So I was doing that for a year,
but then as soon as I joined, it was early 2008, you have the mortgage crisis and Lehman Brothers crisis. So it was tough here to make money, but again, like really enjoyed my time in New York.
- Also, I mean, like what a to be in the U .S. 2008, also in New York, the height of the crisis, you know, that must have been super interesting for you. It was, it was. I mean,
I made no money. Nobody wanted to buy houses at that time, although hindsight, everybody should buy houses when there's a crash like that, in a city like that. But amazing experience. It was,
you know, obviously New York is one of the leading culinary cities in the world. And So experiencing that on a budget was still really nice. And just discovering the city as an agent,
you're walking around four or five hours a day, a day. Like, you know, you're showing like 10 apartments a day. And so luckily I was a bit more fit at that time.
So, you know-- - Not so lazy. - No, not so lazy, not so lazy, 'cause I was hungry. I needed to feed myself every night. But yeah, like discovering different parts of the city, discovering different neighborhoods,
I would go to a neighborhood before the meeting and try to get a bite in that neighborhood because you don't know when you're going to come back to the neighborhood, you know what I mean? So yeah, again, New York's amazing.
Quite a journey of discovery as well, you know, for you. And also, I think from a dealing with a customer perspective point of view, you must have,
you know, after your year, you must have been able to read people very well. - Exactly, I think the sales side of me was developed a lot in New York. I think real estate customers are just as bad if the worst 10 restaurant customers.
- Yeah, probably, you're right. - For real though, like, yeah, it's, you know, extremely picky, you know, everything in moderation, but you know, if you're investing a lot of money A space that you're going to stay for a long time.
Obviously, you know, you're going to be, yeah, but I swear this podcast, you can. Oh, sweet. Okay, cool. But yeah, you can, of course, because, you know, so now you come to think about it,
but they can critique you immediately, you know? So one other thing was like working as a real estate agent. I was one of the few Korean agents. And actually during the interview, I told them I was living in Union Square and they thought that I was it's like this rich Korean kid with a lot of connections with the rich Koreans in Europe,
which I had none of. And so they would pass me a lot of the kind of lower level rental customers that they had. And so to meet so many, so much variety of people also allowed me to kind of develop that kind of relationship or knowledge about dealing with people - And selling apartments,
which again, I didn't sell a lot of, I didn't sell any, I just rented some, but it was pretty much in the experience. So then when did you come back to Dubai? 2009, at that time, 2004 was a year old.
My father had opened this Korean supermarket in Al -Barsha in Kota Al -Qudi hotel apartments at that time. When there was like nothing, now it's so developed. You have a lot of actually good restaurants there as well now. So 2008,
he had opened it. I had come back in like February and my father was, you know, he's extremely generous to us. We're very lucky to have him as a father. But he was like,
we have a Korean supermarket. We're importing Korean food. Why don't we start importing Japanese food and you start selling to restaurants. So I do speak a little bit of Japanese by the way, you know,
like learn from the night culture. But yeah, it was again, amazing time. I would again discover because Japan, you know, the city may seem expensive because it's so developed,
but no, there's so much good food that's under like $15, $20. And it's incredible that you would have for six months, like essentially researching. - Yeah. - You know, I mean, I've always been kind of very active in ensuring that I have the best meal wherever I go.
And so I did a lot of research in like going to ramen restaurants. We waited in line for like hour, hour and a half, get there early at like 11. And yeah, just again, discover the city, go to the It's go to different towns and it was amazing man.
Japan is one of my favorite countries. So then after that extensive trip, you came back. - Came back, brought in two containers of Japanese food at that time.
Japanese food products are a lot higher in value than most of the countries. - Why? - They're just more expensive products. You know, if you get a container from Thailand,
for example, it can be 10, 20, $25 ,000, whatever, but Japanese like frozen containers, for example, it can be like 100 ,000 plus. No. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you're dealing with like very expensive high -end products.
Wow. So, you know, we, we brought in two containers. It was my first time bringing in full products from Japan. Obviously, like there's going to be a lot of waste at that time. We didn't have any customers.
So yeah, it was a very expensive learning lesson, but you know, you have to start somewhere and just started developing relationships with chefs. One of my first customers was Chef Takashi.
Now he has a Japanese restaurant called Tomo in Raffles Hotel in Burdabai, kind of healthcare city area. But he was one of the first... I think he opened the first Japanese restaurant in Dubai.
It was called Yakitori House, a Royal Ascot Hotel in Burdabai. And he had moved to this restaurant called Kisaku in Kalish palace in Dera. And to be honest,
like it was really, really fucking good. And we would go there a lot quite frequently and she was making his own kimchi. And unfortunately the kimchi into buy, it's quite watery. So it's hard to make good kimchi with it.
So we know what it takes to make kimchi, right? It's very labor intensive. So we went to him and said, listen, I'm from this Korean This is actually my father. He's the one that actually made a conversation,
sold it to him. But it was our first restaurant sale and we're like, "Look, you know, kimchi is difficult to make. You know, you can just buy it from us. It's much more delicious. It's actually cheaper probably compared to the labor cost and the raw cost,
blah, blah, blah." And he's like, "Cool. Let's try it." And so, yeah, he was our first customer with kimchi and then he kind of took me under his wing and really like helped me develop this business, introduced me to a lot of restaurants and also introduced me to a lot of products that might be popular in Dubai and stuff like that.
So yeah, shout out to Chef Takashi and Tomo. Tomo, even until to this day, is one of my favorite restaurants. I went there like two days ago. Yeah, it's meant to be amazing. I haven't been yet, but I'm going to go now. They have pork ramen as well.
They have pork license. It's actually a beautiful space. It's just a little bit out of the way, but they have a beautiful view. Their sushi quality is excellent, and It's more affordable than most of your,
you know, kind of higher ends. Okay. Amazing. Yeah. So then if we sort of fast forward to now you're sort of supplying over 250 venues number one.
Yeah, number two then you have several different businesses and so today my fuse you've got soul street coffee Lamise Beauty ugly sugar,
real ugly noodles, something called a Gun Bay Nights, which is quite cool. You must be very passionate about not only business, but also F &B generally.
Right. Look, I think I'm very driven from that perspective. I think I understand the city quite well, and, you know, it's been a journey. I didn't take on this many projects before COVID.
I was focusing on my work, focusing on 1004, developing it, you know, we'd moved from Al -Barshut to the Onyx Tower in 2018. And I was just, you know, making sure that it's running properly and,
you know, we're covering our holes. But during COVID, you know, there was a lockdown and our partner in the ugly empire, our mini empire, Young Rack,
he has a Korean restaurant in Media City. And obviously during the lockdown, there was no business. And so Eric, who one third of ugly nude, ugly burger needed a spot to run a concept out of.
And Shogun is a huge restaurant. They have a really, really big kitchen. So I kind of introduced the both of them, but then we decided to work in this together on this project together. And so after working with my friends,
which they tell you never to do, uh, but I think it depends on how you work with. After working with my friends, I realized that, you know, you can't do everything yourself And with 1004, you know, as a family,
we're doing everything ourselves, and luckily I have my father to kind of support me as well. And my wife as well was very knowledgeable when it comes to marketing advertising. But after working with my friends, I realized, okay, if we kind of delegate different workloads to different people,
and we kind of focus on each other's strengths, then, you know, we're able to kind of develop other businesses. And so started off with Ugly Burger. A year later, we actually opened up in Hunna and Darwasl,
Ugly Burger, that was a one -year contract. So we were there and then Schiff called it from Abu Dhabi. He's a good friend and he wanted to create something with us. And so we developed Ugly Noodles, which still doesn't have a spot.
We're still doing pop -ups. I don't know until how long we're gonna do it. I think we might set the world record for this. (laughing) - It's very popular, the pop -ups. - Yeah, we're very lucky that you know,
grateful that the city appreciates it because it's extremely authentic, right? We're not like bastardizing it. You know, you got the citron chili peppers, which we like roast from scratch and make it into the powder seasoning.
And, you know, you can feel it. You can feel the spice. And we were kind of worried, but we're like, you know what, it's a fun project. Let's just see what we can do with this product and the city reacted. So I'm very grateful for that. And now we're working with Ketope.
They have a new kind of spinoff brand called Itopy where they showcase different dishes from kind of several concepts and they did a pop up and sold DXB,
F1 and now 25 hour. So that's been a fun journey with Kambi Nights. Again, my partner in Kambi, his name is Nanna. He's one of the top mixologists in the city.
He does a lot of consulting work for a lot of projects and stuff like that. He used to be the brand ambassador Centauri. Okay. So, you know, he knows a shit. And so, I've always had this idea of bringing in guest bartenders from East Asia to collaborate with kind of my customers in,
of 1004, the restaurant customers. And I actually had a conversation with Four Seasons right before COVID to bring in a Taiwanese bartender. And then it was meant to be at the February and that was like the height of,
yeah, so I canceled that we were like kind of in preliminary conversation and we wanted to do it in front of Seafood. They have this like really nice cool bar in the center. Anyway, so I mentioned this to Nana like in 2022 already.
Well, and he loved the idea. And so we decided to just like see where it goes. And we did it at Electric Pawn Shop. Shout out to them. Len and Libido, they're amazing. And then we did it at Akira Beck after in W Hotel,
shout out to Giro. We did it at Dubai Opera House. We did it at Bilkanto after that. And then at Sony Zakaia. That was the last one. We want to do another one soon, but we'll see. - But it's pretty cool now that you've got different parts of businesses and different partners,
all looking to essentially work with you and also highlight different things. - Exactly. I think we're using each other's strengths to develop this idea and it's continuously evolving.
Every company that we've done, I think it's gotten better every time. But he has the knowledge and the background of cocktails and we collectively have a really good community around us that is willing to kind of experience what we have to offer.
But I think specifically to come be, I think the USP is number one, obviously bringing in talent from Southeast Asia is great, but that happens a lot in the industry. But a lot of the cocktail industry is very industry -centric,
so only bartenders know about it. You don't see a lot of non -industry people in these events, and so that's what we wanted to showcase because I have so many friends that are interested in cocktails and good food and just having a good time,
and so we wanted to showcase this experience to non -food industry people. Also, the other thing is we wanted to showcase kind of 1 ,004 products. Yes.
So there's many layers to this and we wanted to showcase 1 ,004 products in the menu to kind of spread the word that 1 ,004 is not just a supermarket, we also have relationships and we sell to a lot of restaurants.
So that was one of the things, but also we try to pair the food with the cocktail, because cocktail is the center And so, you know, again, it's a fun project, we'll see where it goes.
Well, look, taking back to 2004, Gourmet, if I've never been there and I'm walking in the very, very first time,
guide me through that journey. Oh, wow. So designing this new shop, I kind of did the IKEA model where They try to make sure that the customer goes to the end of the shop and comes back out from the entrance as well.
And how did you, was it yourself that was thinking that or did you take sort of market data analytics or that kind of stuff? Definitely retail psychology. And so there are certain aspects to a supermarket that need to be there.
And there are certain spots or certain categories of a supermarket that is stronger than the others, right? So in our case, obviously when you come in, it's usually fruits and vegetables. So we have that on the right side.
And then we have the snacks right next to it, snacks kind of near the cashier, 'cause it's also an impulse buy. And then we have instant noodles kind of at the end on the right corner, because obviously everybody loves,
you know, Asian instant noodles, that's what a lot of people get. And then we have kind of the sauce next to the butchery. And in the supermarket, butchery is the highest selling category because it's a high priced product,
right? If I sell literally one slice of Wagyu, I probably have to sell like 10 packets of crisps, you know what I'm saying? So because it's such a high value product, I kind of put it further in so that the customer comes in.
So we have the sushi and the seafood, we have the beef, and then we have the pork section after that. And the pork section, again, people that don't know, and they'll come for our pork if you have very high quality pork,
and that's kind of hidden in the back, not so conspicuous so that we're not offending anybody. And then we have the cafe where, again, if you're next to the butcher, you kind of see the cafe and oh,
what's this? You come in, see what's going on, might come in for a coffee or some bubble tea, and then we have my wife's Korean cosmetics shop next to it. And then, yeah, and the Japanese Korean kitchenware on the side.
'Cause there's a lot going on. - It is. - And is it only Korean products or is it Japanese? Is it mixed? - Yeah, yeah. I mean, complete mix. We are agnostic when it comes to our products,
kind of portfolio. We just want to bring in the best products from every far East, Southeast Asian country. Like now I'm looking for charcoal, like not the briquettes,
but like the high Bichotons. A lot of Japanese ones are too expensive, but I'm looking at like Laos or like Myanmar or something. So again, like, and now I'm going to bring in a whole container of Japanese kitchenware stuff,
not just plates. Literally anything, man. So also the Japanese barbecues, Korean barbecues, you can bring all of those in. Yeah, exactly. We already have like the nice looking like,
you know, kind of you put it on your table, put the potato gas in, switch it on, cook your own barbecue in your house, we have that kind of stuff, but yeah, literally anything and everything we can buy. Like I'm looking at bringing in packaging material and chopsticks and like wooden chopstick.
Literally everything. So then how much of your job is strategic -based, research -based, development -based to make sure that you're catering to your current customers and then attracting new ones?
I think we're lucky because there are quite a lot of Asian food suppliers, but I think because we have a retail store, it gives us a bit of an advantage. But also the fact that we bring in a lot of high -end seafood,
fruits and vegetables from Japan, which a lot of restaurants need, before they open, we try to have meetings with the chefs. Dubai is a very small city. You know that most of the chefs know each other.
And so you know, you're doing a good job when you get a referral, right? And so I think that happens a lot nowadays. So very, very grateful for that. And for all the chefs that are supporting us. But in terms of like strategy,
that's just every single day, it's always in the back of my mind, product curation, you know, I'm going to Japan next week. And, you know, you go to food shows all over the world. And I really enjoy going to supermarkets Whenever I travel,
I like looking at what the city has. I bring in an extra suitcase just for snacks and stuff that I enjoy. Do you critique or compare supermarkets compared to yours?
I wouldn't say I critique, but I try to learn from whether it's display, lighting. I'm very weak in lighting, so I'm going to ask my lighting friend. He does a lot of lighting for the big the big groups and the buys,
I'm gonna ask them for some advice, but lighting, display, layout, the way they display the products, Japan is the best, like it's crazy. Like the amount of attention to the detail that these guys have is amazing.
So every time I go, I learn and I try to execute, I don't, again, 'cause I'm lazy, but no. No, but you know, that as well,
product curation, Again, I try to look online, trends, ask friends. I'm actually thinking about this idea where like, if you recommend the product and we bring it in, we'll give you like a voucher or something.
To kind of like make it fun for customers to kind of recommend products. - Yeah, incentivizing is always good. - Exactly, right? - So-- - Brings different people in, all that kind of stuff. - Yeah, I was thinking about that the other day, so.
Yeah, but again, we have such a good kind of foundation in our company with a lot of the managers taking a huge workload off of me and my father and even my wife with the cosmetics.
And so that kind of allows me to, again, take on new projects and just do more fun things. So then regarding the actual entirety of that business, I'm assuming that then you have your different teams for different things.
So for example, you have the team that are strictly just for the chefs, you have the team that are specifically just for the supermarket, obviously you must have rather a large logistics team.
How many in total now people in the business? We set 180 now. When people ask me what's the toughest part about business, it's the people. Managing people is obviously very difficult,
not in a bad way to an extent where like people are hard, but it's just every individual things always happen, right? You know, so our HR is extremely important.
And yeah, again, like we need, you know, head of finance, head of retail. Yeah, you need to manage for each retail shop, purchasing manager. We have a manager for the restaurants,
Xing, Wenzel is our HR, warehouse manager. That was Haseb, customs, online. - Yeah. - Yeah, online, yeah, but again, very grateful,
it's fun. When there's good synergy, it's fun. When something bad happens, then it's not fun. Yeah, and that's when you're into-- It's all about mitigating that risk. I think I've been through a lot.
I've had, we lost a lot of money through our staff. Things like that, you can say like, just laugh it off at this point, As long as your business doesn't come crashing down because of any issues that happened,
then it's all good. Just build it back up. That's the way we perceive it nowadays. Yeah. I mean, look, I don't believe, you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that anybody necessarily teaches you how to become a CEO or a managing director.
The only way you do learn is through the incredibly hard knocks and learning, especially when it comes to the human capital part of things, as I'm sure that if I compare yourself to year 2010 to 2024,
you're a much different leader than to who you are now. - 100%. - Yeah, so yes. - I think I'm a bit more chilled to a certain extent. Again, I think if that had happened like five,
10 years ago, I would have been like, what the fuck? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But At this point, you know, I know a lot of the things that are happening are happening. It's all about putting in the measures and systems in place and to make sure just,
you know, again, you're going to lose money regardless. I think that's inevitable. Whether you're a restaurant, you're an agent, whatever it like, it's inevitable. But you know,
as long as it's not a significant amount, you know, it's kind of look over it. This podcast is proudly sponsored by Chef Middle East. Ever wondered if your culinary creations could reach new heights?
Chef Middle East delivers ingredients that serve up inspiration. Let your creativity flourish with an unmatched quality of specialty ingredients and cutting edge kitchen solutions. For over two decades,
Chef Middle East, a chef's warehouse company, has been the go -to distributor for chefs, and culinary professionals across the Middle East and beyond. For more information, go to www .chefmedaliste .com.
Now back to the episode. So what I wanted to sort of get into now is, in front of us, for people who are not watching us on YouTube,
you brought in some really crazy and amazing looking products. Thank you. products. Thank you. So run us through these. So are these the types of things that we would normally find in the shop?
Yes, it's actually my curation because I just love these products. When my friends come, this is like something that I would recommend all the time. So this is it's a sparkling yuzu juice.
It's acidic, but you know, sweet. He uses kind of organic sugarcane and it's from Japan. it's made by this guy called Marcus. I'm meeting him next week. He used to be a bartender and he wanted to create a product that really showcased Japanese kind of really high quality ingredients,
but also something that you can use as a mixer. Okay, this goes well with all your favorite gins and vodkas and stuff. So actually,
you try that. Can I give it to - Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. - So let's have a little ganna, so. - It will be nicer colder, but oh, so. - The smell is beautiful,
so yuzu. - Yeah, it comes in three different flavors. We have this, we have mikan, which is the mandarin. - Oh, it's very refreshing. - It is, it is. It should be colder with ice as well.
- I can imagine that with like a nice mikan. - With a nice ginger. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - What's your appetite too, right? Oh my god. Yeah, it's super good. Now, this is... Love that. Thank you.
This is a coconut water from Thailand. This is so cool, right? I've never seen the packaging or the... Yeah, the packaging is beautiful. It's called Michel Burger, named after the boutique hotel that the brand is made in.
Okay. And basically, they went to Thailand, loved coconut water, wanted to make a cool kind of spin -off brand. And I love the market strategy where they don't sell to commercial retailers like the FMCGs,
like Carefors and Spinnies. - And is it, it's not a physio, it's just-- - No, no, no. It's straight up coconut water, super sweet. It's the best coconut water out of a can in my opinion. - Oh my God, that's incredible.
- Yeah, it's super sweet, man. It's super duper sweet. - Wow. And how much would it cost to-- - This one, I think-- - This is, how much? - It's - 50 ML, yeah, 520 ML.
I think we sell it at 22. If you go to like all the restaurants, they sell it between like 25 to 30 maybe. - But this is a serious can. - Yeah, you know? - Yeah, it's in your face. It's making a statement.
- And I love the fact it's called The Fountain of Youth. That is brilliant. - Yeah, don't sue me though. - Man, it's so cool. - Yeah, it's a great product. We love it. We're gonna push it hard this year. So keep keep a lookout.
Most of your favorite restaurants and cafes and gyms will have this in the future. Yeah. So then, okay. And then we'll get on to this a bit later. Okay. I'll appeal that for you.
So this is called Funwari Meijin. It's like a rice puff. My favorite flavor is actually the soybean flavor, but let's add a stock. This one is cheese. It's super delicate, really light.
You can't bite it because you'll make a Yes, and just take it in one bite and it just melts in your mouth.
This is an education right here. This one is a bit broken, so you just pop it in or what? Pop it in. Wow. Just melts in your mouth.
That is crazy. Let me try. That is like - An amazing, again, thank you very much. - No, no problem, bro. - My mind is blown.
So being half Venezuelan, half British, obviously I've been eating crisps all my life, what an idiot, because these are amazing. - Exactly, right, dude. The way they're able to create these textures,
again, the attention to detail when it comes to, when it comes to Japanese - That's unbelievable. - It's just packaging, but like, and the fact that, look, they packed this in like,
mini packets, 'cause-- - Exactly, so you know-- - They probably calculated, on average, how many of these vuggers, like, each person's gonna eat in one sitting. - That sounds crazy. - Like, you know. - But how smart that you have the packaging,
which is big, and then you have this. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, wow, yeah, if you want to save, if you hate wasting plastic. If you hate the use of plastic, don't go to Japan because they love this shit.
Right. They'll have plastic and plastic and paper and plastic. Yeah. Oh my God. Okay. And then these bad boys. So that's really good. So this is one of my favorite, favorite, favorite snacks. This one I'll kill in one sitting because it's so good.
So have you seen those shrimp crackers? I'm sure you've seen it everywhere, right? Yes. So these are, you know, from the Korean version of that. And this is, they came out with a special limited edition flavor which is truffles.
I hate like kind of truffle oil and truffle fragrances like I really dislike it but I make it an exception for this because it's just so good. Who would have thought like truffle and shrimp. Truffle and shrimp?
Sounds a bit weird. Yeah. Yeah. But look like so good. I'm still blown away by the the cheese explosion crisps. So yeah.
Yeah. - It's very strong. - The smell is strong and it's on your face, right? - This with beer, bro. Oh my goodness. - Yeah. - That with beer? - That's phenomenal. - Yeah. - It's amazing.
I think it's one of the best truffle snacks in the world. - Okay. - Like it's so good. - So, the texture. - Before I get into this, if I wanted to find these products, I can either visit your shop or can I get them online?
- You can get it online. - But Our website is really really bad the customer journey is extremely extremely annoying. I'll show you what so I we are like We're hopefully launching next month.
We're gonna launch a new website next month and a new application as well Oh amazing. Yeah. I really looking forward to that this year our website It sucks, but if you use it in order, I really appreciate you.
I promise We'll make a better site very very soon The reason why I'm asking Chang is because we don't just have people watching or listening who are based in the UAE, they're in the UK, US, and so on and so forth.
So if they're stopping by, I'm specifically saying it because it'd be amazing for them to come and visit you. I agree. I agree. You know, that's one of the things what we really wanted to do in 2004 and the Greens is we wanted it to be kind of an experience,
right? So when you're coming in, we want you to enjoy spending your time there because when you go to a supermarket, what do you want to do? You want to get in and get out. Get your product and get out, right? And so again,
I think that's what a lot of people do in our shop, a lot of the new customers, they come in, they browse around, they ask questions, and you get a completely different experience to what's available online, right? It's also like you have like so many weird and wonderful things also in the cafe that you wouldn't necessarily have in a normal place.
Thank you. You know what I mean? So I think it is an experience and it is pretty cool. And also, from a chef's perspective, if you've never been there, it is like Aladdin's cave, I call it,
because there's so much going on. And you literally want to take away the whole shop, because there's so much happening. The dim sum, I mean, I could go on and on. Yeah,
thank you. Thank you. Please do. But it is phenomenal. And also, you're right, there's a lot of chefs that I know that have either told me about what you're doing or,
you know, they're dealing with you directly and so on and so forth and also the community that we have here in Dubai. We're very fortunate that we have an incredible foodie community that everybody really supports each other.
100%. And you are one of the people at the forefront that's doing this at all times. Thank you. The other thing I wanted to sort of ask before we get into this weird and wonderful orange.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's not an orange, it's a clementine, I don't know, it's a mix. What I cannot ignore and the theme of this season is sustainability. For me,
there's always two types of sustainability, especially when it comes to business, there's the sustainability of people and then the sustainability of Right, so you as the CEO,
how do you tackle both of those? Oh, wow, that's a tough question. I think, to be honest, super honest, sustainability is not something that is a huge priority for us just because I'm not sure of many ways,
like in terms of how to execute how we can be more sustainable, but one of the ways is, for example, with plastic bags, I wanna start getting in, I are made of sugar cane or something from Thailand.
So these are like kind of biodegradable plastic bags. Why is it? They actually have a shelf life 'cause it's made with food. So trying to do that, literally now I'm gonna change all my plastic cups in the cafe to paper.
I'm gonna do that. Also just in terms of being more efficient about your roots when you're delivering is obviously very sustainable. Yes. is we spend a lot of money on gas every year,
like so much. And also, again, same thing with the product. We're not only sustainable by doing so, we're obviously saving money. - Yes, yeah. - So bringing in products more efficiently. When we were smaller,
we would have had to bring in products in a 20 foot container, but now we're bringing in more 40 foot containers. And so from that perspective, also saving money, but also being more sustainable. So yeah, just the top,
top of my head. I think that's what we're doing well. Like wherever we can, obviously, like with protein, we're trying to get like local eggs, local chicken, well, not local,
it's from Oman, but free range, really delicious Omani chicken we're bringing in. So yeah, I think that's what I can think of from the top of my head, but I need Omar's advice on this.
Shout out to Omar, sustainable. Oh man, he's, yeah. Yeah. He's the be -well -at -endal. Yeah, exactly. But then when it comes to human sustainability amongst your team,
how are you dealing with that now? To be honest, I'm going to admit it. I'm not the best when it comes to developing a good company morale and things like that. I'm just, I don't know, I'm just not good at it.
But I think based on kind of the staff retention that we have. Recently we had our staff party. One of the guys that have worked with us for like, like how many years?
12? Was it 12 years? And then a couple more, that's like more than five years. So like, well, we do have a lot of staff that have been with us for a long time. Our head accountant has been with my father for like 30 years.
Oh my God. That's amazing. In his previous company. But yeah, so I think We're doing a good job. I think it's all relative to like, obviously people wanna spend time in their homes,
sharing their breaks, so obviously we're quite flexible with that. If they're pregnant or have emergencies with family, you know, we allowed them to take these off. I think also what we tried to do,
I mean, we're kind of understaffed now 'cause we're growing a bit, but what we've tried to do before was, we tried to have a bit more extra staff because I think it allows us to grow,
but also it allows them to be a bit more efficient with their time. And I think they're a bit more happier when it comes to having somebody next to you that is doing the same job and you can kind of handle the work so that if somebody goes in sick or has to go on emergency leave,
then again, our company is not jeopardized. So yeah, there's many, many ways to do it. Obviously salary is the main thing, insurance and all that stuff. But yeah, I think staff retention is one of the most important,
important aspects of our business for any business. Yeah, absolutely. Because, I mean, as you said, you're growing so quickly. It's also not easy to juggle so many balls at the same time,
right? Yeah. I think to a certain extent organically, because I think our growth was, so in 2015, my I had started a new line of business selling to Carrefour and Spinnies and that kind of shut up and so we had to hire like 50 people on the spot and like our OPEX is crazy.
We were doing well revenue -wise but we were losing money every month and then we ended up selling that business right before COVID which is like crazy. I think if we had that business then it would have been very tough for us.
So we've been kind of through that hump and through that we also not We've learned a lot, but also developed a lot of relationships with big companies because we're dealing with FMC Gina, right? We're bringing in like 20,
30 containers of these products every year. So that was really good, but a big learning lesson. But now, again, I feel like I watch a lot of basketball, I appreciate sports,
and running an organization is just like any sports team. It's like, what kind of players do you have on your team that's going to dictate the success of your company so that's the way I see it nowadays and yeah yeah so then before I get into the final question before we get into the quickfire round tell me exactly what this beautiful fruit is because I've never seen it before yeah so it's bit yeah so it's an
orange or a clementine or it's called halabong in Korean and Dekopo in Japanese. They kind of blended the DNA of two different oranges and it's got a little like this gnaw on top.
- So they blended the DNA. - Exactly, of two different oranges. And it's, the pulp is bigger. A lot of the citruses from Korea and Japan are seedless,
which is really nice. Pulp is bigger, it's sweet, it's sour. - But the skin is also like super thick. I'm already thinking like powders, you know powders. I'm gonna make some powder put on some fish.
Oh wow. Yeah. That's really nice. Very potent, but it's very thick. And you know, like you have the beef steak tomatoes. Yes. It feels like that. It's like so also great for a marmalade.
Oh yeah. Oh, I forgot to bring our marmalade. We had like 1 ,500 kilos of cray and mandarin left. And we were worried that we couldn't sell it so one of my friends has like a jam and like jam and sauce factory So we made a Korean marmalade jam out of it.
What did you call it? Oh just Korean not I should have been more creative with it. Okay, so When I'm tasting it you have the sharpness of the orange both of the sweetness of the mandarin Yeah,
it's crazy. Yeah, this should be a little less sharper, a little bit more sweeter, but yeah, it's still delicious. Like, you see how big the pulp is? It's like a grapefruit. Yeah, it's crazy. You know, it's really big.
That's amazing. Making a mess. What a lesson today. Oh, thank you. No, I appreciate it. Wow, that's really cool. But next time if you're in the shop,
please let me know So I can give it a jam. It's really good done. It's like 50 % Mandarin We made like two thousand bottles. It's an art to make jam Also, like to get the temperature right when you're doing the pectin and anyway super delicious Final question for you before we get into the quick fire You've obviously been in the country for some time you've seen The changes you've seen the ups and downs Now in your
opinion, how do you see the future of F &B in this country? If the demand can back the supply,
Dubai can and will be, you know, one of the top culinary cities in the world. Obviously, you know, places like Japan, Hong Kong, Beijing,
New York, I think those are like some of the top is right now in the world. Thailand as well is amazing. But the talent that's coming into Dubai with recently Rowan 45 opened up,
Sherwam, you know, Chef Hadrian, it's like one of the first chef -led kind of restaurants, you know, you have all everybody on the 50 best list who are all friends, Kenoya,
you know, Babe Mariam even, Boca of course, but then you have like France and opening - In Atlantis. - Yeah, street Exo that just opened up and all of the Sugetsu's and all the ones Abiyo places,
all the Royal Atlantis places. I don't know if you know Chef Tristan Farmer. - Yes, I've worked with him at Gordon Ramsay, at Carragiz in 2007. - No way. - That's crazy. I just went to Moonrise.
- I realized, yeah. - It's really refreshing to see so many different chefs with so many different backgrounds and experiences, bringing their standard and elevating the standard of the Dubai food scene.
So, yeah, look, I really hope that this demand keeps going, because if so, you know, I can definitely see Dubai be one of the top places to eat. Yeah, 100%.
It was definitely the best in the Middle East. That's for sure. Yeah. I mean, there's so much going on and people coming in, I mean, and people want to stay, the funny thing is, I feel, is that I'm going to get berated for this.
The established chefs from Europe, US, wherever, with the Michelin stars and their restaurants,
I feel, need to really push the boundaries Compared to the talent that we've also got here, you know, because the talent that we have here They know the city and the diner is extremely well.
Yeah, whereas the international chefs necessarily don't know, you know Yeah, so it's really interesting But there is one place that I think is incredible and that is Royal 45.
It's amazing the service level Yeah, oh my word. Yeah, everything about - Yes, poils. - So yeah, and we've had Jason on this show before, so. - Yeah, I love him, he's so humble, so talented.
- Yeah. - Their team is amazing. - Their team is amazing. Dan Berg, also the exact chef is a legend. - Right, as well. - We worked very closely with them and to see the chefs ask questions about the product,
ask about the seasonality, seeing them experiment with the products and create different dishes. Yeah, Roll 45 is definitely one at the top right now. Also Tristan Studio, Sheppi Manchu and Oceano as well.
Love those guys. Love what they're doing for the city. They're representing from Dubai. They're not international. Yeah, big time. So, quick fire. Are you ready?
Let's do it. All right. First things first. Noodles or burgers? Noodles. - Okay,
I think I know this one. - Kimchi, or bibimbap. - Kimchi, all right. - Who would you say are your top three culinary heroes?
- Wow. - Culinary. - And they don't need to be chefs necessarily. - I mean, rest in peace, Anthony Bourdain. Like, he's definitely my hero. - The legend.
not just what he's done, but what he stood for. You know what I'm saying? Like he wasn't scared about speaking up, you know, for Palestine, he was just a very nice person that was,
you know, not in a good place. So Anthony Bourdain, number one, there's, I don't know if you've seen Chef's Table, there's a Korean Buddhist monk called Jeongkwan Sunim.
I had the pleasure of kind of showing her around Dubai when she was here, I definitely need to check out her temple, but she's definitely one of my culinary heroes because of, again, not what she's done,
but kind of who she is. - Yes. - And when you're around her, she's so much fun. She's like, you know, like on chef's table, she's very like chilled and, you know, this is my history,
this is the food. When you're with her, man, like she's fun. - She's wild. - Yeah, you And she's, she's elderly, right? She's like, I think three, four years younger than my dad. So elderly,
but she has such a positive attitude and she's so sweet, so sweet. Love that. We went to transcend before like, this was like six, seven years ago, maybe. And she had these bracelets that she gives out to the people.
And so she went into the kitchen and gave a bracelet out to everyone. Oh my God. Super sweet, love her. And Number three, my mother.
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna get a little emotional now, but yeah, I really appreciated her approach to feeding us, 'cause when we're growing up,
we're not as well off as we are right now, and she's extremely frugal, and she likes to make everything from scratch, She de -hydrates onion skin and uses it for stock.
Oh. Yeah. So I appreciate that angle, the frugality. I'm definitely not as frugal as our, my brother is. But yeah, I appreciate her approach. She cooked for us very,
very frequently. And yeah, she's my hero. Love it. Now, this is a toughie for you because-- Bring for you. Because I specifically put this question in here because it's a toughie.
What would you say is your favorite ingredient? Oony. Because? Oony. Really? Yeah. Because it's one of my favorite things to eat in the world.
With what? Just soy sauce. Just a really good quality soy sauce. Yeah. Soy sauce, Dab of wasabi, really good sushi rice, no seaweed. But uni is,
oh my God, like, yeah, I love that shit. 'Cause we import a lot of it as well. So I'm kind of proud of placing that. - I'll do a personal tasting with you. - Yeah bro, do it, let's do it. But uni is one of my favorite things in the world.
- Okay. - Yeah. - Now at this moment in time, what are your top three cuisines? Cuisines, um, I'm gonna get sure for this from the Korean community,
but I think Japanese I'm gonna get castle out of Korea community, but, but you know what?
They can't even say shit because you go on Korean review sites, right? Uh -huh. Out of the top 10, eight are Japanese, man. Okay. So there we go. Like, bro, come on, like, you can't say shit to me when like,
yeah, yeah, um, yeah. Japanese cuisine, in my opinion, is one of the best, best, best cuisines. Recently, I've really fallen in love with, um, with Thai food.
I just think, you know, the diversity of fragrances and aromatics and, uh, ingredients that they have is, is unparalleled for the rest of the world. I think there are only a couple of countries that have those kind of ingredients,
right? You have to be in that geographic area to get those ingredients and the super, super, super, super, super, super, super, super, super, super, super, super, super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super
super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super
super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super
super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super
super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super
super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super
super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super
super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super
super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super super
super super super super super super super super super super super ingredients, right? You have to be in that geographic area to get those ingredients in. They're super underrated. Yeah, yeah. I love Thai food. Um, the last one, I got to put Korean there somewhere, right? Of course. I got to put Korean before Thailand. Okay.
All right. Yeah, done. That's for sure. Thai is last. Okay. So now throughout all of your experiences globally, You've dined in a lot of places,
you're running businesses, restaurants, so on and so forth, pop -ups. What would you say has been your funniest ever either kitchen or restaurant incident that you've seen or been involved in?
So when we first moved to Darwassil, when Ugly Burger first moved to Darwassil, it was during Ramadan. And Russell was extremely busy during Ramadan because of Sohor.
And so we would get lines from like 11 p .m. to like 2 a .m. - Now who way? - Yeah, I went home at like 2 .33 every day because we would just opened up and they needed help.
But I didn't realize they didn't need my help because like I was trying to be supportive. I take an order And this guy orders, like, chicken burger, dope pickles.
And I forgot to put it in the order. [LAUGHS] Well, just for cool. [LAUGHS] It was so fucking hectic, bro. [LAUGHS] It was so fucking hectic.
So, like, I saved the order, something else happened. So I'm like, you know, I feel like 80D. And 20 minutes, 30 minutes later, he's like, "We're sorry." - No,
man, and so whore as well. - Oh my god, okay. And then I go to the kitchen and I'm like, "Guys, I fucked up, give me some chicken burger." And then I'm like,
again, it's so fucking it. There's like literally like a line of 20 people outside. And Eric's like right in front of me, he's "What?" I was like, "Eric, I need some chicken burger." Now,
I'm gonna mistake, it's my man. He's like, "Chicken burger?" And then he's like, "Get some chicken burger." They're like, "Chicken burger, chicken burger." Like push it to the front, push it to the front.
- Oh my God. - And then we get the order. I deliver, I was like, "Yo, brah, I'm really, really sorry." I give it to him. I'm like, "Really, really sorry." But it's all good.
I leave, I come back. I was like, how's everything? Is everything okay? And I was like, yeah, well, there's pickles inside. (laughing) So I've been banned from taking orders.
- Okay, fair enough. - I don't know if that was a subconsciously on purpose 'cause I didn't want to work, but that was, yeah. I was like, no one has the chicken burger guy for like a week.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, okay, So, okay. But that was funny. What a chicken burgers. Right. What advice would you give to 16 year old Chang?
Wow. I don't know. I love that's 16 year old Chang. Just work hard. No, I think, you know, I think it's important to try as many things as possible.
It's important to experience as many things as possible. And I feel like I could have done that better. So definitely that. - Okay, yeah. Now, we have a lot of young chefs, young professionals,
restaurateurs, up -and -coming business people. What advice, or what's the one piece of advice that you'd give them when it comes to business? I think this is something that I take seriously,
like, is don't take everything so seriously. Hindsight, if you have your health, your family's health, you have a roof under your head, you're eating okay, then it's all good. Just learn from your mistakes,
move on. And the reason I'm able to think like that is because I hold myself accountable for everything that happens in the company. So for example, I told you about this online issue where this lady kind of funneled points,
right? Ultimately, okay, she made a decision to do that, but it was my fault for number one, not putting in the right measures to make sure it doesn't happen. But number two, hiring her. Number three,
allowing her to keep working. - Right. - You know, so like, holding myself accountable, holding yourself accountable for me allows you to kind of perceive the situation in a different light. 'Cause when shit hits the fan,
what's the first thing you do? You blame somebody else. I try my best not to do that. So I think that's, for me, that's very important. - I think that's a great piece of advice. - Thank you. - To be honest, it's the same thing in a kitchen.
- Exactly. - We tell the chefs, if you make a mistake, don't lie. Just say hands up and we move on. - Exactly. - But it's when you lie, that's when things get dark. Yeah, that's the thing where. Now,
if people wanted to get ahold of you through social media, how could they do that? chang .sup .chin is my Instagram handle. Obviously @1004warmei and ugly burger stuff,
you can find a line. - Done. So I'll put all of those in the show notes for everybody. - Just a dog, dog, it's too much. - Too much. - Now, I just wanted to have a quick recap 'cause it's been phenomenal what we've been discussing.
- Obviously, your childhood food memories, I really love the kimchi. Especially the raw kimchi. I think they're pretty clean. - They're actually - Actually, the plastic tone. - Love it. The types of food that you had growing up, education,
the US, obviously, doing the real estate stuff and checking out different neighborhoods, I think is amazing. And also, you get to know different personalities and different people. Then obviously, coming back to the UAE,
learning about Japanese food and then going to Japan for six months, which I wish I could do right now. And then, of course, growing the business, the different types of businesses that you have, the different partnerships.
Thank you for also bringing in these wonderful products, which I'm going to gorge on. Thank you. But really, it's just been absolutely amazing to learn about yourself,
to learn about what you do, and on behalf of the entire community and on the ChefJKB podcast, thank you very much for taking the time to be here. Thank you. Again, I really appreciate you having me on.
I think I like doing these things because it's a good reflection of where you are in that place at that time And so I really enjoyed talking to you also a new business. I'm importing natural wine from Lebanon So we're selling in Abu Dhabi not in Dubai yet,
but it's super delicious. It's from a winemaker called Marcelle The winemaker is called Eddie and he actually resides in Dubai But yeah, it's super delicious wines not too expensive and we got an amazing orange wine that everybody's going to love.
So amazing. Just keep a look out for that also. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, chef. How cool was that conversation? What I really admire about Chang is that not only is he a serious businessman,
he's also a bit like me in the sense of being a total food geek. I love the fact that he knows all of the backstories to all of the food that he has in the supermarket. I think that is just amazing and what a selling point at the same time He is involved with some of the coolest pop -ups in town and as for gun Bay nights I think it's such an amazing community,
especially for the global bar scene by the way no joke Everything he brought to the studio tasted incredible the drinks The crisps which reminds me I need to go and stock up on those bad boys that fruit,
all of it was just so tasty. So future guests, take note, bring some cool things in next time please. To be honest, I do want more supermarkets to take note,
to make an inspirational journey for us. We want to be dazzled, we want to be impressed. 2004 Gourmet certainly takes all of those boxes. I cannot wait to see what the future holds for 2004 Gourmet and the rest of the projects.
If you want to see more of what Chang is doing, I'll place all of the details as always in the show notes. A massive thank you to JJ and the entire team at Podcast Now for producing the show and don't forget you can now watch us on YouTube.
If you haven't already make sure to follow, share and subscribe. I would just like to ask a small and tiny favour. If you like the show or think someone you know could learn a few lessons from the guests and the conversations we have,
please share the show so that we can reach as many people as possible and who knows, perhaps these episodes can inspire someone to take action and be the very best at what they do.
Finally, well done, you've got through to the very end of the show, you absolute legend. So until next time. Well done you've got through to the very end of the show you absolute legend so until next time food is memories