The Unseen Journey Through Grief and the Quest for Joy - Alexandra Wyman : 134

The voices that speak from personal experience resonate when grief shrouds us in its unpredictable fog. Alexandra Whyman brings one of those voices as she recounts the harrowing tale of her husband's suicide and the complex aftermath that followed. Her vulnerability in sharing this journey casts a light on the often-overlooked intricacies of mourning, self-blame, and the stigmatization she endured. Her story is not just one of loss but also a powerful narrative of the resilience of the human spirit and the solace found in community and openness.

Alexandra is a best-selling author of the book The Suicide Club: What to Do When Someone You Love Chooses Death. She wrote it after her husband succumbed to suicide in 2020. She is a public speaker specializing in resources to rebuild after major life events. Her goal is to help others find moments of joy again and appreciate what life still offers.

Alexandra and I traverse the winding paths of grief, acknowledging that while it's a shared experience, the terrain is deeply personal for each of us. We reflect on the varying shades of emotional pain, the need for compassion in our responses, and the challenges of supporting those, especially children, who are navigating their unique sorrows. Our exchange reinforces the importance of creating spaces where mental health and the reverberations of loss can be discussed candidly – a testament to the healing power of conversation and understanding.

In the transformative power of storytelling, Alexandra takes us through her evolution from authoring "The Suicide Party: What to Do When Someone You Love Chooses Death" to launching her website, Forward to Joy. By sharing her resources and fostering vital dialogues on loss, love, and the quest for joy, Alexandra exemplifies how turning pain into purpose can pave the way for others on their healing journeys.

Let's enjoy her story.

 To connect with Alexandra, www.forwardtojoy.com

Transcript

Daniela SM: 0:01

Hi, I'm Daniela. Welcome to my podcast. Because Everyone has a Story, the place to give ordinary people's stories the chance to be shared and preserved. Our stories become the language of connections. Let's enjoy it. Connect and relate because everyone has a story. Late, because everyone has a story. Welcome my guest, Alexandra Wyman. She's the best-selling author of the Suicide Club what to Do when Someone you Love Chooses Death. She wrote the book after her husband died by suicide in 2020. She's a public speaker who helps people rebuild after major life events, aiming to help others find joy and appreciate life again. All this while working on her own as well. It was lovely meeting Alexandra. She shares the harrowing tales of her husband's suicide and the complex aftermath. Her vulnerability sheds light on mourning, self-blame and stigmatization. Her story is one of resilience and solace found in community and openness. By sharing her resources and fostering important dialogues on loss, love and the quest for joy, Alexandra shows how turning pain into purpose can help others heal. Let's enjoy her story. Welcome, Alexandra, to the show.

Alexandra Wyman: 1:30

Thank you so much for having me, Daniela. I'm just so excited to be able to chat with you today.

Daniela SM: 1:34

Yes, me too, and so, Alexandra, tell me why you want to share your story, sure.

Alexandra Wyman: 1:40

I am just someone who's found that if there is something that I've had to go through, have figured out strategies or tips or ways that have helped me through it, then I want to be able to share that with other people so that maybe it might provide them an easier. I don't know if there's ever anything that's super easy or easier, but just another way to be able to get through something like a big loss or grief. And even prior to the beginning of my story, which we'll get into I just always felt like if I could share what I've learned with someone else, that would be really helpful.

Daniela SM: 2:12

Yes, and I agree with you. You know, in my personal life and through the podcast been hearing stories and I feel that that if it doesn't help because we are not going to go through the same situation, it still helps us to be compassionate and understanding.

Alexandra Wyman: 2:27

Absolutely, and I think if we're not learning I think that's a big part is understanding that we don't have all the answers. We don't always know. I definitely try and warn people if someone's trying to claim they have all the answers, they don't, and just to be able to find some community in that too, that there might be something that works for me that might not work for someone else or vice versa, and being able to come together.

Daniela SM: 2:50

Yes, exactly All right. So tell me when does your story start?

Alexandra Wyman: 2:57

Well, I had a whirlwind romance. I'll say this I grew up with this idea of get through high school, go to college, you meet a partner, you get a job, buy your house, you know, start your family, get in a good job. And that was what was a successful life, and that is not how things went for me. So I was a little older when I met my husband and we just had this whirlwind romance and just knew we had a very deep soul connection. We got married, got our house and finally I was thinking, yes, we've got it, I'm on the road to the successful life. And we found out we were going to have a son and then, just a few days before our second wedding anniversary, my husband ended up dying by suicide.

Alexandra Wyman: 3:42

And that was not part of the plan, that was not what I considered to be part of a successful life, and I just felt that everything, any footing, any trust, any sort of comfort, security, was just completely annihilated on the day that he passed. And so from that point on, I, as I mentioned, just thought I am trying to forge a path through this insanity and through this trauma and tragedy. So how can I again find ways to do this, to navigate this that might help someone else, because it's just unspeakable and it's so hard, no matter who is dealing with it. And that brought me to being able to chat with you and being able to hopefully be a spokesperson and bring some light to the complexity of not only death and loss, but also of loss by suicide.

Daniela SM: 4:32

Yes, I'm so sorry for what happened to you. You had no signs, so it was a completely surprise. That's even worse because you started wondering what if, what should I? Why I didn't notice? Oh, yeah, yes, and so many, so many what ifs? Yes, I mean, I can't even imagine what you went through. Tell me what happened next.

Alexandra Wyman: 4:54

Yeah. So it was a little complicated for me, and I will say there were no signs. I can't see that there aren't any. I just know that, out of the people that I've met who've had a loss by suicide, the majority of people will say there were no signs, which makes it really hard. Because that's what we want. We want to know what to look for in order to keep ourselves safe from such a tragedy. And I'll say that even just two days before Sean passed, we were planning vacations and talking about what we were going to do. He died during COVID, so we were planning. What were we going to do? First thing that we could, when we could get on a plane.

Alexandra Wyman: 5:30

It was definitely difficult, and the initial part of that aftermath is a lot of blame. Why couldn't it be stopped? Why didn't we get to him in time, come to us and say that he was hurting that much? I mean, there are so many things and I'll say also just complicated by other family members and friends that our marriage was kind of put under the microscope. So what was it about our marriage that drove him?

Alexandra Wyman: 5:51

It must have been something about me that would have caused him to end his life. And so you're right there is so much that goes through, there's so much thinking you can't even start. I mean, it took me almost a year before I could really start to look at everything and to be able to start pulling those layers apart, to even start healing, because there is a lot of that and you just get stuck in your head and how do we separate? I had to get to a point where I could separate and say this was a choice not my favorite choice for him to make and I don't agree with that choice, but I do honor that. That was his choice. And the truth is I could have tried all different scenarios. I could have seen how it could play out all different ways and it could still have ended with him dying.

Daniela SM: 6:36

But how do you learn that exactly what you just said, that no matter what you've done, just really nothing you could have done about it?

Alexandra Wyman: 6:43

I had someone who jumped into lots of resources. It took time and I'm not a big fan of saying you know, time heals all wounds. And I'll say time is always a component, because we grow and we learn as we go. But just giving time doesn't necessarily bring on that healing. So I was reading books, I was listening to podcasts, I was doing two different types of therapy. I joined a support group.

Alexandra Wyman: 7:08

I was doing everything I could to try and, just as what I'm trying to do is be a resource for other people, I was trying to attach to as many resources as I could to see if somehow that would lessen a little bit of the agony that I was feeling. Would you know, lessen a little bit of the agony that I was feeling? And truly, just, I tend to intellectualize and overanalyze everything anyway and had to sit there and finally get to a point and it just hit me one day like I could have, I could have done anything differently, and that I will still have regrets and I still have shame and guilt that I have to work through over. Could I have been a different wife, Could I? You know there are marriages that could mirror ours and it wouldn't end this way.

Alexandra Wyman: 7:50

You know that's what's so hard is there's no predictability. And I think overall what's helped the most is working on being able to trust myself and know I was of the belief at the time when Sean passed of life is predictable. Right Again, go to college, find a partner, get a house. These are the things and through this experience I learned no, no, no, Life's not the predictable part at all. Life is the ocean. You just never know what kind of wave you're going to get. But how we respond to that is what can be predictable, Trusting in ourselves that we can handle whatever comes our way. That's the predictability. And that's been a shift, just again, through doing a lot of healing and working on myself, to kind of release a lot of that responsibility over how things ended.

Daniela SM: 8:38

Yes, of course. I like your analogy about the wave Life is like a wave. Yes, yes. Tell me more, then, about what success means to you now.

Alexandra Wyman: 8:50

I love that. That's such a good question. I'm still trying to figure that out. I'll be honest.

Alexandra Wyman: 8:55

I think what I'm trying, what I do find, is success, and the reason why I say I'm still working towards that is I think success is more about me finding joy and contentedness and happiness and what I have in front of me. Nothing is perfect. I'm doing the best that I can as a single parent, but to really embrace and really get to a point of self-love I guess that would be kind of where I look at that success. There are still external things I'm looking for. Do I have a good career? Can I, you know, adult and take care of my bills, and those sorts of things. But those are still external and I really feel that being in my being, my authentic self, being in my self worth, finding my self worth, being able to really start to find ways to increase my self love, that to me is a success.

Alexandra Wyman: 9:47

Responding to situations that life gives me from a place of trust, that to me would be success. So I'm still working towards it and it's a shift, like I said, it's a complete shift from something that's external, with a checklist, to more of a feeling. I think that's what I'm working towards. Is that feeling of saying, okay, I've got this, which, of course, anytime I feel like anytime. At some point you say I've got this, then life hands you something else and it challenges how much do you really have it?

Daniela SM: 10:19

Yes, but as you said, it is how you bounce back from the situation. You said you have a child. How old? He will be? Five soon. I guess that was a helping factor to encourage you to continue going on after what happened.

Alexandra Wyman: 10:34

Yeah, one of the things I have learned and do recommend for people ever going through something like this is to have what I call an anchor. What is that thing that, when you're feeling your worst, that still gets you to move slightly and my son was it. I made a distinction pretty early on. I knew that this would impact us, but I didn't want this to dictate our lives and I knew that we would carry our grief with us and it's something we deal with but I didn't want it to be driving our choices, driving how we decide we want to live our life from this point on.

Daniela SM: 11:11

But you think also, this is your personality as well. You have always been a cheerful, positive, optimistic person.

Alexandra Wyman: 11:17

I think so. I've described myself as being a cheerleader for other people. If there's something you want to achieve, I will cheer you on, I will help get there. So I think that's fair. I think I've definitely had my moments. Something I have had to work through for sure is that concept of life happening for you, not to you, and I definitely especially after Sean's death, of really being like, especially after Sean's death, of really being like why did this happen to me? What did I do? How did I deserve this Versus just being able now to look at it and say, okay, this in a weird way, did happen, for I'm a completely different person than I was before he died, and the growth that I've done I wouldn't be able to do, I just wouldn't have, I wouldn't have done unless I had this sort of tragedy. Don't get me wrong. This doesn't mean that I'm like I would always take him being back here over any of this, but I just recognize that, yeah, I'm a different person because of it.

Daniela SM: 12:17

Yes, and I feel like that's what happens, like when situations and challenges occurred is because we need to grow somehow. Sometimes we don't see it. In a way, it will be the question why this happened right to me.

Alexandra Wyman: 12:34

Exactly, yeah, and I have definitely had that moment of you know, I've definitely had my chats with God and said was there another way that I could have been able to learn these lessons without it having to go this way? But again, like you said, those are questions that I won't ever get those answers to and I think it is about the approach. I mean, it'll be four years this year since he passed, year since he passed, and so I still have days that are great and days that aren't, but I can start to see the little pieces along the way that were showing me exactly what you're talking about of those changes, or what I needed out of the situation in order to make changes and become more of my authentic self.

Daniela SM: 13:23

You know, my mother's second husband also died by suicide and I was really upset, also in my mind we'll go through what did my mom did, cause they had an argument before. But you know, he always, always he was a dentist and he always said dentists always die by suicide. We never really grew up knowing anything about this. We didn't really thought much about it, not even a thought. I was like maybe you should go and talk to someone you know, because he wouldn't have done that either. It's quite interesting when that happens, for sure.

Alexandra Wyman: 13:54

Yes, and weirdly I have heard I don't know the numbers or the exact statistic, but I have heard that dentists do die. Like a higher percentage of dentists do die that way, from the sociological part of my brain, I'm like why, what is that about? And I'm sorry that you had to go. Anytime someone has to go through this. I'm like I'm just sorry because it is hard. You're right. I mean, sean and I had an argument before he ended up dying.

Alexandra Wyman: 14:21

Absolutely Not only me but also friends and family were saying well, what did you say to him? What did you do to him? The answer is I don't know, and I think that's what's so hard. Is that because it's an in the moment kind of decision and thing that happens? We can't see all the time of other things that build up?

Alexandra Wyman: 14:43

And one of the things that I've really recognized and I knew, but kind of understand a little bit more now, is that it's so easy for us to have compassion for people when we can see what's going on.

Alexandra Wyman: 14:55

If we see someone in a wheelchair, we can have more compassion because we can see that something physically happened to them. But if someone is emotionally in pain, we don't always see it, we're not always going to know it, and so I struggle sometimes with having compassion for people and I'm working on that, you know, always a work in progress. But that was one of the things that struck me, and especially when it came to my son. There was an interaction with an adult who was kind of harping on him a little bit and I was like he's he's going through a rough time right now, but this adult has no idea because he looks like he's just a healthy kid who's fighting back and I'm like actually he's grieving the loss of his dad and we tend to not have as much compassion, we don't see that someone is going through something, and my whole point of this is it's just a reminder to me and to everybody of why can't we just have more compassion, cause you just never know.

Alexandra Wyman: 15:51

You never know what someone is going through.

Daniela SM: 15:54

Well, in a way also, your son could have had emotions that he wouldn't even know, that he had right and you don't know. Because that's the most important thing is to learn about ourself. That's the issue that we are too busy with the external things, that we really don't know exactly about our feelings.

Alexandra Wyman: 16:12

Exactly, and that was one of the things I mean. I'm sure as he gets older, he's going to at some point be like mom. Stop asking me how I'm feeling, because that's been a big thing for me is to ensure that he feels that he can not only feel whatever emotions he's feeling, that he understands that he's not going to be shamed for that, and then I can help guide him even though I'm learning to do this as well is how do we work through it and not get stuck? That's the main thing, and especially with grief, it's so easy to get stuck and you can get stuck multiple times and not even realize you're getting stuck until something happens and you realize, oh, maybe I should kind of work through whatever those feelings are.

Daniela SM: 16:52

Yes, it is hard. I know that it is hard to understand something that you don't see Trying to find support group for partners that have depression or anxiety. I feel like that will be important to try to understand.

Alexandra Wyman: 17:07

I agree and this was something what you're addressing is kind of those peripheral, right, the people who are on the periphery of what's going on.

Alexandra Wyman: 17:16

And I think you're right, there needs to be more support for people who are engaging with an individual who's going through something.

Alexandra Wyman: 17:23

I've even wondered there are some resources that are great for kids who are dealing with loss, but often there are age limits to that, and so then I'm like okay, like there are all these resources that we can get to in a couple years, but those aren't necessarily helping me right now, as my son is expressing a lot of his grief kind of thing and being able to figure that out.

Alexandra Wyman: 17:44

So I so agree, it's so true, and then not everyone can say this is where my anxiety is coming from, or this is why, and you may not know, there might not be anything to it could just be something like a smell even sometimes can trigger someone and you wouldn't know, and they might not even know, and that's what makes it so hard, and I love that we're having these conversations more and people are, for the most part, starting to come around and have them. I still do hear a little bit of the like oh, that's, you know a little bit of weakness or we don't need to talk about our emotions or just deal with it, kind of thing. But I think more and more people are starting to open up and say we all have stuff. Instead of fighting each other, why don't we come together instead?

Daniela SM: 18:27

Yes, I also feel that people react different ways. You know a similarity on grief, but you react differently. I give you an example my dad passed away when I was 19 and he was like my best friend and I was so cold, frozen I guess I did everything that you needed to do paperwork and everything. It took me five months to start crying. When my stepfather passed away, I was angry and more emotion. Emotions came right away. Even myself know how I'm going to react.

Alexandra Wyman: 19:00

Right and that to me is so frustrating, but so true, absolutely Even through the grief process, what I'll say, and to your point, there have been times where I might be having a conversation with someone and they just say, well, how are you? And another person could say, how are you, and I'm totally fine, and then one person does and I'm just waterworks. I just start crying and tearing up and I'm like, well, apparently there was something about the way you said it that that did impact me, and I totally agree. You know finding ways to access and my shock was around for four months. So, and I had some other complications.

Alexandra Wyman: 19:38

You know family that was really upset. They wanted, they were trying to potentially bring legal action. They didn't, but it was complicated. So it took me a good eight months before I could even start saying, oh, he's not coming back and I need to start figuring out how to work through this. My personality is kind of like a let's take the bull by the horns and let's do this and get over it and get it done with kind of thing. And I realized pretty quickly that that's just not how grief works and healing doesn't work that way either. So I found out pretty quickly that that's just not how grief works and healing doesn't work that way either. So I found out pretty quickly I had to kind of slow down, slow my pace and realize I had to give myself a little bit more time to start working through things.

Daniela SM: 20:17

Yes, you're right about how somebody can ask you the same question, and it depends on the moment, I guess, and who asked, or I don't know. You just react differently as well. Imagine talking more about emotions just same question, different people, different moments, and then you are in a different, different answers.

Alexandra Wyman: 20:36

Oh yeah, I mean, one of mine was actually a colleague of mine who he just very lightly touched my shoulder and said I've been thinking about you, how are you? Touched my shoulder and said I've been thinking about you, how are you? And I just lost it. The poor guy. He just looked at me stunned and I was like it's okay, it's okay, this happens sometimes.

Daniela SM: 20:55

You would never ask that question.

Alexandra Wyman: 20:58

I'll steer clear of you from now on, Like it's not you, it's me. I promise.

Daniela SM: 21:04

Yes, it is. It is tough. Also, feel like grief is a conversation that we should have more often. People don't like to talk about it. You know you always associate grief with death. This operation was going to help him to not have dialysis, to have another method that we were going to improve our family dynamics, in the sense that we were going to travel more and do more activities together. Otherwise, every two days, he had to be at home for dialysis. It didn't work. All these expectations it was grieving Like. Now we are back to what we were going to do and we never talked about it and I have to say that it felt like somebody died for me and I was a teenager and the fact that my parents didn't speak it did affect me a lot. I felt completely worthless. We need to talk more about things that I could be feeling like a grieving.

Alexandra Wyman: 22:06

Oh, I absolutely agree and you're right. Too often we think that there has to be something super overt and large or tragic to create a grief process and there doesn't. It can be a divorce, it could be a move, it could be a change in jobs, and I actually had a friend who's studying to be a counselor. She was saying grief can come about any time. That what you know, your expectation or the direction you're thinking you're going, the reality shifts and changes and it's that change that causes that grief, because it's what you thought was going to happen doesn't happen. And, just to your point, you know an unsuccessful surgery. It makes sense you could have a shift in a relationship. So let's say, you find out something about someone and then you realize that the friendship you thought you had was different. You know that can create a sense of warning as well, and I agree that it's helpful to start having more of these conversations, because I don't.

Alexandra Wyman: 23:03

I don't think I've met anyone and I just don't think that there's someone who exists who hasn't had something impact them, that has not caused them to have grief. Everybody has had something. I think what ends up happening is out of fear. I can see in my own situation. I have sensed from people who've wanted to know well, what was going on for Sean, what was going on in your lives, because they want to see that there's some sort of difference or indicator for why this happened to me and happened in my life. That will prevent it from happening to them. And we like to create that distance because then we feel safe. Oh well, did you hear? This is why he died, but that's not going on in my life, so it won't happen. But the truth is, as we've been talking, life is the unpredictable part and there are so many things that can happen in our lives that will cause us to feel grief.

Daniela SM: 23:58

Yes, yeah, it is interesting what you're saying. I wonder what word do we use to use or we use when things are really grieving with the, you know, with the word grief what I guess we just said oh, that's sad, or something very simple and not work deeply into what really you feel.

Alexandra Wyman: 24:16

That's just a really good point to make of how, using words like something like sad, to just it's almost like a moment of recognition. But then let's move on, because it's uncomfortable, right, grief is very uncomfortable, these emotions are very uncomfortable. They're necessary, but they are uncomfortable. So it's like, oh, that's horrible, sorry, so sad, and then let's move on. Did you hear? You know about this thing? Right, you know. It's just people don't. And I'll say I think sometimes even me, as I talk about it, I, because I'm open, because I've learned and said we need to bring more light to this, we need to be having these conversations, not normalize this as a way of dying, not to say I condone it, but normalizing it, and that more people are impacted than we really know. People are impacted than we really know. And I think sometimes that throws people off a little bit because they're like, oh, you talk about suicide? Well, not just, but yes, and that's okay, and let's normalize it a little bit more.

Daniela SM: 25:17

Maybe I don't know if it's not really you to talk about suicide, because this is not something that you know. You are like the person that was with the person that died by suicide. So it is your story as the person that was left. It's the same as somebody ill and the caregiver and I don't know what name would you put yourself.

Alexandra Wyman: 25:39

Most people will see survivor, which can be confusing because then some people think that as survivors we've attempted but like the support group I belong to is considered a suicide survivor support group.

Daniela SM: 25:51

I don't know if that's the right word either, but I don't know either. Yeah, you know that's the. It is from your point of view, and so I don't know if you can talk about suicide. You just can talk about how it feels about suicide. You just can talk about how it feels and perhaps for people who are thinking about it and I know that when they're ill that you can't think about anybody else but you at that time, but you can only help those people that you would call survivors Does that make any sense?

Alexandra Wyman: 26:21

I'll tell you. Even recently I was having a chat with my therapist and saying I don't understand. But I have people who come to therapist and saying I don't understand. But I have people who come to me and ask me questions about prevention and my knee-jerk reaction is to say I don't know what to tell you because I was not successful. I can give you the resources that I'm aware of, but I don't have any sort of magic because it didn't work for me and so I agree. Like there, I can speak to the aftermath and I can speak to the journey that I've had after. I can guess and hypothesize what Sean was going through, but ultimately I have, I really have no idea, other than he was in a lot of pain.

Daniela SM: 27:03

And so, alexandra, in these four years, yes, you've been dealing with the situation by reading and going to counseling, taking care of your son and sharing your story. What else has happened? Have you changed friends, moved homes, locations? What else have you done?

Alexandra Wyman: 27:25

Yeah, well, luckily we were able to stay in our home, which was great, because for a while I didn't know if we could, so that's been one thing that stayed the same. But I will say that, yes, friendships have changed. Even relationships with family have changed, mostly with some of Sean's family, just because of a lot of the hurt that happened right after he died. And and, like I said, I'm trying to learn how to still maintain some of the old friendships. But I think what's hard is I don't need to be fixed, and so when something like this happens, I think communities can come together and they can be there. But then, if they don't know what to do, we're doers, we want to do. How can we help you? How can we ease this pain and agony that you're feeling? And then, if the answer is an I don't know.

Alexandra Wyman: 28:18

You know, for the first year I just had people bring food. I was like the only thing I can think of that you can do right now is bring food, because no one can bring my husband back and and people want to do something to kind of help. So I think in that respect it just some of that changed, because people just didn't know what to do. They didn't know how to be around me, without wanting to kind of fix us, if that makes sense. So some of those friendships have changed. Like I said, I've seen myself. My spiritual life has changed quite a bit because I felt challenged and said, well, what do I believe, what does happen after we die here, and where do I want to go on my spiritual journey? So that was a huge shift for me as well. I was raised in a religious family and still participate in a Christian religion.

Daniela SM: 29:08

It's just a little different now with how I view what happens it's just a little different now with how I view what happens in regards to that. And did you you?

Alexandra Wyman: 29:23

you kept your job and you did anything else different? I kept. I kept my job. I did end up, you know, writing a book about my process. So that was a big thing because that was also cathartic for me. I've always kind of always been a big person to journal, and so that really helped. But I was able to keep my job, which was great I did. You know, I wanted to move. I just couldn't. It just didn't seem logistically possible at the time for me to actually move. We had to move out of our house temporarily and so to come back, it was suggested to redecorate. So that's what I did. I got rid of all of our furniture and completely redecorated.

Alexandra Wyman: 30:00

I will say holidays are different. I keep thinking that around Christmas that I'll feel better, like, oh, if it's just one more year, maybe I'll feel better in the true it hasn't happened yet. So I do know quite a few people who just travel over the holidays. They just kind of skip them and I don't know, because I have my son, I don't know that I necessarily skip it, but I have thought about like let's just get out of town for a few days around the holidays, just to be able to get out of the house, and I'm not a big fan of Mother's Day or Father's Day, and for everyone it's different. There are always different things. Sometimes it's birthdays that come up, sometimes it's the anniversary of the death that still comes up for me. All different patterns for different people.

Alexandra Wyman: 30:42

I can say something I've noticed. I have two small nieces and one of them, sean, died in August. That's right when school starts here where we are. So for one of my nieces the start of school is really hard for her and she just has to work through it and then she's good. For my son it tends to be more February, march. I've figured that out over the last couple of years. For whatever reason, his grief comes up around this time and then we'll kind of go out. So it's different for every person. But I think that's probably one of the biggest changes is just seeing that there's this roller coaster I'm on and sometimes I feel like I'm great, and then other times I'm like, oh no, I might just need to take some extra time for myself.

Daniela SM: 31:23

Yeah Well, thank you for being, you know, so open and honest about your days and how it feels. Yes, quite interesting, it's true. As I said, everybody is different, right, and every year you could react differently.

Alexandra Wyman: 31:36

Yes, Again. That's what makes it so hard, because I know I, along with so many people, are like could there just be something predictable about grief? But there really isn't. It's just kind of right in those waves.

Daniela SM: 31:48

Yes, you wrote a book and how long it took you and when you started it right After a year or later, after, let's see.

Alexandra Wyman: 31:55

I started it about nine months after Sean died and it took me about a year to write and so you know, having a kid, I just found different pockets of time where I'd be inspired by something and I'd have a voice memo or something like that, and so that I found to be helpful not only for me but also it's kind of to help other people that I didn't know. The first thing about what do you do with an estate, I was like you don't have it. You know, I always think of estates as this big thing. No, you know, I say I don't know what to do about this. What's this probate? You know? All these things that I call the business that I had no idea anything about.

Alexandra Wyman: 32:33

And Sean didn't have a will, which complicated things. So I do recommend that everybody have a will, and so that was also part of my goals. I had to figure out and the people I was around didn't know. They didn't know what to do, so I had people helping me with looking things up and making appointments. So that was kind of the goal with with the book was to start there. But then also, as my process started and continued with my grief and I was able to put some ideas together to be able to share that with others.

Daniela SM: 33:01

And are you a writer? I mean, does this come along easy for you?

Alexandra Wyman: 33:05

I think I've always enjoyed it. I think I'm at a point in my life now where I'm actually starting to tap into it more and actually work with ideas. I've had ideas for years and just never done anything with it, and, for whatever reason over the last couple years I've decided well, why not, Maybe it's just for me, maybe it's for my son, but I can do something. And so I've started writing more fiction stories and stuff, but something that I just enjoy doing.

Daniela SM: 33:31

Interesting, and so what is the name of your book?

Alexandra Wyman: 33:38

It's called the Suicide Club what to Do when Someone you Love Chooses?

Daniela SM: 33:40

Death.

Alexandra Wyman: 33:40

It's available on Amazon mostly, and why the title? Good question. So one of the first things that came to mind for me after Sean died was ooh, now I'm part of this club. It just kind of came to me it's like this club that you don't have to be part of, you don't sign up for it. But it was just something that automatically connected me to a whole slew of people who also had loved ones die this way, and so that's where the inspiration for the title came.

Daniela SM: 34:09

Great, we can find the book in Amazon. And is there any other way that you connect with people besides you going to podcast?

Alexandra Wyman: 34:17

Sure, I do have a website. Forward to joycom and it's the same like you can email me, alexandra. Forward to joycom, or I'm also on Instagram. Same thing at forward to joy.

Daniela SM: 34:30

Okay, and so you have your website because you offered, you know, coaching or what. What is it that you have your website for?

Alexandra Wyman: 34:38

Yeah, so that's just to have. There are some resources on there for doing things with an estate. Um, I also have a connection to the podcast that I do. Uh, it just has more information there and then if people are looking like, I do have a process that has helped me. So if people are looking like I do have a process that has helped me. So if people are looking for some guidance through this, they can absolutely reach out and I'm available to walk them through that.

Daniela SM: 35:01

All right, so let's talk about your podcast.

Alexandra Wyman: 35:04

Yeah, well, we're just going through a little name change, so the podcast has been known as the Widow's Club and I'm actually switching it to Forward to Joy, so it'll align with everything else that I have, but it's still the same topics where I like to provide and learn myself other tips for people or strategies for that healing, for that self-love and continuing to move forward. So it's the Forward to Joy podcast. Yeah.

Daniela SM: 35:31

Is that to be more?

Alexandra Wyman: 35:31

optimistic. It's just aligning with my website. And then also I found that when I started this I started it a little over a year ago it was to be more of a resource to widows, and the more that I've done it, the more I feel that it's kind of become more broad, and so part of what I'm doing is here are just ways to continue healing. As we've been talking about, we all have moments that cause us grief, we all have things that happen in our lives, and my goal is to be a resource for people on ways another way that people can look at healing any sort of past experiences.

Daniela SM: 36:13

And you have guests as well as you talked individually about your experience.

Alexandra Wyman: 36:17

Yes.

Daniela SM: 36:18

Awesome, yes, good. Definitely you are helping a lot of people. I hope so, because having your podcast helps a lot too, not just being a guest, but also being a host, bringing people that you can have conversations. That talks a lot more about this subject.

Alexandra Wyman: 36:34

Yeah, I hope so. Yeah, it's still growing, but I enjoy it. I think every time it gets a little harder I'm like, oh, I have to schedule something. I just keep thinking, you know what's my end goal, and I really do enjoy it.

Daniela SM: 36:46

Yeah, so I hope you can talk about grief in different ways, as we were mentioning now, because, as I said, there is a lot of grievance that needs to be discussed daily with us.

Alexandra Wyman: 36:58

Yeah, thank you.

Daniela SM: 36:59

Great. So, Alexandra, thank you so much for being here and sharing your story. I really appreciate the conversation. It was really enlightening.

Alexandra Wyman: 37:07

Yes, thank you so much, daniela, I really enjoyed it, thank you.

Daniela SM: 37:11

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