Balancing Motherhood and Career - A Journey of Authenticity, Resilience, and Leadership - Doris Jackson-Shazier : 139

How do you balance motherhood and a thriving corporate career without losing your authenticity? Doris Jackson Shazier is a resilient mother of four from Orlando, Florida, who has shared her journey of raising children over nearly two decades. Starting motherhood at 19 as a first-generation college student, Doris opens up about societal expectations, internal conflicts, and the transformative experience of young motherhood. Her upcoming book, "Raising Justice," captures her incredible story of faith, grace, and perseverance.
Doris Jackson-Shazier is an author, speaker, ICF-accredited leadership coach, and people management consultant with over 20 years of experience in driving organizational growth and excellence.
Doris shares insights on juggling a demanding corporate career with motherhood. She rose in the corporate world, overseeing 10,000 employees across 96 locations while being a hands-on parent, creating efficient systems and leveraging daycare without relying on nannies. Eventually, she left corporate America to start a successful leadership coaching business, aligning her career with her values for a more balanced life.
This episode also delves into the emotional toll of maintaining authenticity in corporate America. Doris discusses the challenges of adapting her appearance and demeanour to meet professional expectations and the ensuing mental and emotional exhaustion. Her difficult COVID-19 experience prompted her to prioritize mental well-being and family. Doris's upcoming book, "Pieces to Peace," offers advice on overcoming fear and taking action, providing practical insights and inspiration for young professionals and aspiring leaders. This conversation is packed with wisdom, resilience, and actionable advice.
Let's enjoy her story!

To connect with Doris: http://dorisjacksonshazier.com

Chapters

• 9:57 Balancing Parenthood With Professional Success
• 16:41 Balancing Authenticity in Corporate Culture
• 27:30 Navigating Corporate Authenticity and Career Transitions
• 37:13 Situational Leadership and Finding Balance

Transcript

Daniela SM: 0:04

Hi, I'm Daniela. Welcome to my podcast. Because Everyone has a Story, the place to give ordinary people's stories the chance to be shared and preserved. Our stories become the language of connections. Let's enjoy it, connect and relate, because everyone has a story. Relate because everyone has a story. Welcome, I am excited to introduce Doris Jackson-Chassier.

Daniela SM: 0:30

Doris is a resilient mother of four from Orlando, florida. She's an author, a speaker, icf accredited leadership coach and people management consultant. But of course, that's not. The most important part is really what a wonderful person she is and how it comes out during this episode.

Daniela SM: 0:52

Doris started her motherhood journey at 19 and has spent nearly two decades balancing, raising kids and building a successful career. Her latest book, raising Justice, tells her inspiring story of faith, grace and perseverance. Tori shares how she managed a demanding corporate career and the emotional toll of staying real in corporate America. To stay authentic, in the end, she switched gears to a leadership coach business, aligning her career with her values for a more balanced life. And she's writing more books. The next one will be Piece to Pieces, which give practical advice for overcoming fear and taking action. The titles of her book are super interesting and creative, so this episode is packed with wisdom, resilience and actionable insights. So let's dive into Dory's amazing story and enjoy. Welcome, dory, to the show.

Daniela SM: 1:53

Thank you, daniela. I'm excited about being here.

Daniela SM: 1:56

Yeah, me too. I'm really happy that you reached out and that you are here to share a story. So why do you want to share your story??

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 2:04

I think my story is one of faith and grace and resilience and I think, with some of the challenges that a lot of women especially face today, that it's always awesome to share your testimony or hear a story about other women who persevere. So it's important for me to kind of share my journey of perseverance, a part of my journey, particularly about motherhood.

Daniela SM: 2:31

Yes, great, and so you are in the US. I am, I'm actually in Orlando, florida, orlando, florida. And how many kids do you have? I am a mother of four.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 2:41

Okay, yes, and then you also mentioned before that there were different ages, big gaps right, yes, so what's interesting about my motherhood experience is my oldest will be 20 on Thursday and my youngest is five. He'll be going to kindergarten in August, and then I'll have a senior, a son that'll be a senior in August and a son that will be a sixth grader in August. So one girl, three boys. So I have the unique experience of kind of experiencing kids at all the different stages at the same time.

Daniela SM: 3:13

Yeah, so you get different generations, I think so that will be good for you to always keep going.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 3:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it has a way of making you feel old and young at the same time.

Daniela SM: 3:24

Yes, that's true, that's true. So when does your story start?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 3:29

I would say, to compartmentalize it for the purpose of today, my story started almost 20 years ago. This Thursday we can say it's Justice's birthday. I like to say it's my 20th year anniversary of becoming a mom. You know my story begins there. So recently I'm publishing a book it actually releases on June 27th and I talk about my journey in motherhood. So my motherhood started June 27th of 04.

Daniela SM: 4:00

Oh, wow. Well, that's a good point. We don't celebrate those anniversaries. I always say that Mother's Day starts when your kid was born, you know. So it's not Mother's Day when Mother's Day is, it's Mother's Day when or you know, every time there is a kid's birthday and every day, really Every day from that day, yes, but I wonder if, yeah, I guess you should say that your motherhood start when they're born versus when they conceive, right? I mean, whether you have them in the belly.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 4:27

So All right, and you know that's an interesting point because I there was a journey in her conception and in in the pregnancy and what I went through in order to birth her. So you start to feel like a mom then, and then it's something about seeing what you created, you know, now come into your arms. That changes the way you kind of look at the world.

Daniela SM: 4:50

You're right. So I remember having my oldest in my arms and saying, oh my God, this is so cute, Although nobody else thought so. It was so small, I want to have another one. That was the moment that I thought oh, that's so beautiful. I think I will never forget that moment.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 5:06

And childbirth makes you feel accomplished. You know like you got through it. You know.

Daniela SM: 5:10

Yes, I mean, I did use epidurals and I heard some mothers screaming at the same time and I thought, no, no, no, that's not the way of bringing a child to this world. You're supposed to be chill and happy. How is this bringing to the world a kid while you're screaming?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 5:28

That just doesn't make any sense. I've had a chance to experience with epidural and without, and I would take the epidural every time, every time, right, exactly why is suffering?

Daniela SM: 5:37

You can just enjoy the moment, right, although I don't know it was not that enjoyable, but it's okay, we did it. We did it. You know what I feel, and I don't know if this is the story, but I feel like it's not just giving birth. I think that after you have gave birth, when you realize what your body has gone through to become pregnant, that's when you realize, oh my God, this has been enormous changes that you don't notice because you just think, okay, I'm gaining weight, I'm gaining weight. But then after it's like wow, a lot of things have changed.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 6:10

Oh yeah, and then your body continues to evolve from there. Like you go through this, like metamorphosis, in trying to get back to where you were, and sometimes you accomplish that and sometimes it never happens. Like I am probably the closest now, 20 years later, I'm probably the closest to the size I was before I got pregnant, but I've never been able to achieve my pre-pregnancy size from 20 years ago.

Daniela SM: 6:36

So something got wider. Yep, all right, so your story starts 20 years ago.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 6:45

Yeah, you know I was a young mother. I like to tell people that you know I was the 19 year old college student first generation in my family, first person to graduate high school without a child, to make it to college on a full academic scholarship. One year into college, entering my sophomore year, I find out that I'm pregnant, and not necessarily a serious relationship. This is more like a fling type situation and I had already moved on and decided that I wasn't going to date this guy. And then I find out a couple of months later that I'm pregnant.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 7:19

In my book it's called Raising Justice.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 7:21

I talk about just the internal conflict and turmoil that happens when I had these high expectations for myself and my family had these high expectations for me, and to now find out that I'm pregnant and I'm married and beginning this journey of raising a child alone.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 7:40

And I tell the story of how God just shows up, how hard work, along with prayer, helped me and my daughter along the way. I'm very proud of the child I've raised. I was the 19 year old pregnant girl who produced or raised the 19 year old college graduate Justice is now, has now graduated college at 19 years old, has now graduated college at 19 years old, and so it's just a remarkable experience of knowing that 20 years ago, this Thursday, I was in a hospital bed trying to figure it out of how I was going to take care of this child, and now she's the same age that I was, and she's off in Salt Lake City working for a healthcare company, with her bachelor's degree, about to enter her master's program, and so I'm just very, very proud of what we were able to accomplish over these years.

Daniela SM: 8:33

Wonderful. You also graduated from college.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 8:36

Yes. So I was able to still go through college and graduate To help you while you were going to school. So, friends, family, I worked a full-time job. I had to put her in the daycare. Her biological grandparents were very, very instrumental in helping me because they did live locally in the town. So, although her biological father wasn't involved, his parents were very involved as she grew up and he has since then come around, but initially he didn't have a lot of involvement.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 9:04

And then I tell the wonderful story when I was pregnant with her, I prayed four specific prayers that God has answered, and one of them was that I would never experience single motherhood or that she would never know what it was like to not have a father. So the interesting thing you learn in my book is the story of me meeting my husband, who I happened to be pregnant and I didn't know at the time. And when I told him that I was pregnant and he's like are you going to go be with the guy? And I'm like, no, that's done with. And he was like, well, let's just see where things go. I'm okay with dating someone who has a child and we're now almost 21 years together. He's been there the whole time. He was there when she was born and that's the father that she knows. God answered my prayer and I never experienced single motherhood, nor did she ever really experience the abandonment of a father she's had on her whole life. I tell the interesting story of how that came about in my book.

Daniela SM: 10:02

Well, you were not the only one who has been pregnant in the past at that age, so how do you see, if you have met anybody else? The difference with that? You went to school, but you continue studying. You had more help. What is the difference?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 10:16

I would say the differentiator for me was I think it all starts with mindset. I think sometimes people are told that you have the baby now you can't do certain things, or now you don't get to accomplish certain things, or you can't go to certain places. And I really had a village that encouraged me to. Whatever it is you want to do, I'll help, or how can I support you. And so what I did was I never gave up on any of my dreams. I modified them. I modified them in order to prioritize the life that I wanted to create for my child, but I never gave up.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 10:54

So right now I work as an entrepreneur with my own company, shazier Coaching and Consulting, but my most recent position I was a director of senior leadership development for a major company. I've had 10,000 employees. I've been a regional vice president. I've been a district manager. I've been a president of a diversity council. I've had almost 10,000 employees. I've written training materials for 70,000 employees, training materials for 70,000 employees, and it's all because I never adapted a mindset that because I got pregnant at 19 or was unmarried, that it would stop anything. So it never did. But how do you, how do you get the mindset? I grew up very tenacious. I grew up in Liberty city Miami.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 11:41

So I grew up in the inner city, I grew up in, you know, over town, very, you know a lot of poverty and I always wanted to do more and be more. And in order to do more and be more, you have to be able to be flexible and adaptable. You have to have, you know, a tenacious mindset. I used to tell people at work, like all we do here is we serve pancakes and peg games, we're not dodging bullets here. You know, like I grew up dodging bullets and if you grow up dodging bullets, everything else kind of seems a little easier.

Daniela SM: 12:13

I see. Usually when we are pregnant at a young age there is a lot of shame. If that were in my case, I don't know if I would have gotten support. I would have been criticized.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 12:23

I felt those things. So there was shame. So I have a belief system that offense is something that I own. I have to believe you in order for you to offend me, so you can say that I should be ashamed. You can say that I'm wrong for something. You can call my dress ugly, but I can decide whether I believe it or not, and so I've always kind of had that attitude and I think it was helpful for me.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 12:52

So did I have moments where I got snide looks or snide remarks and was my husband teased for dating a pregnant girl in college? Yeah, those things are legitimate, those things happen as a part of our experience. But we've always been able to kind of run our race with our blinders on. We never paid much attention to everyone else. I had too many responsibilities to be focused on the thoughts of other. To be honest with you, it was almost made it more acceptable. They were more accepting because at least at that time I was an adult and they knew how to survive in spite of those circumstances circumstances and so they were just so proud of me because they were just my tenacity to do all the things that I set out would do, even with having the baby.

Daniela SM: 13:51

Yeah, you give me another perspective, it's true. Like that, we shouldn't be thinking oh, you know cause? I think I hear it still to this day, even though we have evolved in many other areas of our life, to hear that, oh, if you have a child, you're done, is it?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 14:08

But you know you modify. You know that's what I try and tell people and encourage them you modify, yes, but you're not done. It's like you can bend but you don't break. And I think sometimes we think of parenthood as like a destination. No, it's not a destination, it's a milestone, it's something that you enter into, it becomes a part of your journey, but it's not. It's not something that ends anything. It's about balance.

Daniela SM: 14:35

And it's true that we adapt because we, we manage to work, to raise the kids, and then some people that don't have kids, they always think, oh my God, how can you do it? And we don't know, Cause, you know, as you put things on a plate, we continue, and so, as you also take things off a plate, we somehow expand the time. And oh, how did I manage to do all this when now I get stressed about one little thing, you know? So I think it's just that adaptation.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 15:04

When I was working in corporate America, I they were like wait, you're married with four kids and you're going on vacation and you're doing this and you have 10,000 employees and you have to coach these people in 96 locations in your tribe. Like how, how is this possible? How are you doing this? And I think because I like to say my first leadership position was motherhood. I became a mom at 19. I don't know any other way, but to balance it, I've always had to work and go to school and take care of my child and set good boundaries and deadlines and balance this lifestyle. So I don't know any different. It's been my whole adult life.

Daniela SM: 15:49

But then the things that you didn't have was like oh, let's go study, let's go to the beach, let's go and do some fun things after school. You're like, no, I have to go home to my child.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 15:59

Yeah, and I think I had a balance of those. There were moments like there were moments where I would go three months straight and maybe there was not a fun outing because I'm grinding, I'm in a mode that I'm pushing or pressing, and then I balance that out with Christmas break and then I spend time, you know, and we relax and everything, even after work. I dedicated an hour to reading to her every day and talking to her and cultivating her learning, because I was still responsible for that. I still had weekends to be able to be with her. So there's a way to balance.

Daniela SM: 16:36

it Doesn't it feel you had to grow up much faster than your classmates?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 16:41

I definitely, definitely had to grow up, definitely had to grow up faster. I definitely wasn't on the party scene, I didn't have, you know, the opportunity to maybe pledge a sorority or do certain things like that, because I had a different set of priorities. And so, okay, so you graduated. I graduated from Florida State University about degrees in sociology. I actually graduated with the intention of going to law school, and then what happened? I got into a job that I really started to enjoy.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 17:07

I graduated during the last recession, and so it wasn't financially doable for me to attend law school full time, because at that point, by the time I graduated, I had my second child. So that's when me and my husband had our first child together. So I graduated with one child on each hip. We relocated here to Orlando. He graduated with his degree in electronics engineering. I graduated with my degree in sociology, and then it was a recession and they laid off hundreds of thousands of people. Well, what year was this 2008.? And so, yeah, so it happened and we had to pivot, and I was fortunate enough to. I've been supervising since I've been 19, 20 years old and landing roles in management and just have a natural ability to lead and encourage others. And then you combine that with my tenaciousness and my can-do attitude to make sales goals, so it allowed me to move up pretty quickly in the company that I was working for, and so over the years again I went from store manager to district manager, to a regional director, then to senior director of leadership development.

Daniela SM: 18:13

But so this is not what you studied, though you just happened to have a job and then you were very smart, so you were moving up, but you graduated from sociology, you said.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 18:21

So yeah. So here's the thing the degree in sociology is the study of people in groups, so psychology is more of self and mind and sociology is about the interaction among people, and so it's been a very good degree for me, like it's really served me, because your workplace is a group, your family is a group, most of your interactions in the community is among groups, and so having a background in education and how people function and thrive in group settings gave me really good leverage in the management field.

Daniela SM: 18:58

Plus your natural attitude for empathy and liking people.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 19:03

So it worked well for me. So it allowed me to build great teams and these teams, you know, executed very well operationally, made a lot of good money for the company, which positioned me for promotion. And so when I walked away from corporate America I was a high six-figure earner and bonuses and company cars and all that other type of stuff and it began to just not suit me. It didn't suit me anymore. I didn't like some of the political games that you have to play once you get at a certain level. More and more I yearn to be able to create a lifestyle and a job and work and do the type of work that feels good to me, that pours into my cup, that didn't feel like I was being drained every day doing so. I liked a lot of aspects of my job and I kind of use those things that I like the most to create my own business. And now I get to do those things across industries, I'm not limited to one company.

Daniela SM: 20:01

And when you were working in corporate America, did you have time for your kids? Lots of time. How Usually people have nannies, or you know. No, no, no.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 20:12

I've never had a nanny. My kids are school age and my youngest did go to daycare. I am a person that likes daycare. I like the social setting of it and the education and follow up that comes along with it. So I'm an advocate for daycare. I've never really wanted to be necessarily a primary like stay at home mom.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 20:32

I enjoy being in the workforce during that time and then I did have a maid at one point. Somebody just come in and help me out. That freed up our Saturdays that allow us the time to not necessarily focus on the details of cleaning. That's good quality family time that we could go and have together. But for the most part I just created systems and schedules the way. When I had to travel a lot for work, I did most of my traveling, you know, like Saturday through Tuesday and then did my office day on Wednesday because I could work from home and then took Thursday Friday off. So I would make sure I had this block of time and then on those days I will always cook dinner. Throughout all those years I cooked dinner at least three to four times a week.

Daniela SM: 21:13

Wow, wow yeah.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 21:14

Yeah, because it was just important for me to, to to personally feed my family, and I believe in raising kids you have to give them a little bit of what you didn't have, but you have to give them a little bit of what you did have, and I got that from my grandmother and that meant a lot to me and I wanted my husband and my children to be able to have my meals at least three to four days a week.

Daniela SM: 21:36

But I mean the hours usually when you're in those kind of positions are more than 10 hours a day. Oh yeah, I've had those days, yes.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 21:45

That's true.

Daniela SM: 21:46

And so some days and then some days, you say okay, I'm not doing 10 hours Exactly.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 21:51

Exactly, it's about balance and communication. My husband he works as an educator and he's athletic director and dean at his school, which gives him a lot of flexibility, but he also has the same schedule as the kids, so at least if I'm not there, they have a parent that's there. So he goes to work while they're at school, but when they have breaks and the summer is off, he's off as well. So we've been able to work as a team to kind of create that balance in our household.

Daniela SM: 22:19

Yeah, wow, yeah, I mean multitasking, for sure.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 22:23

Yeah, it's definitely multitasking.

Daniela SM: 22:25

And it's true, as a mom, you have to do it. It doesn't mean that you're not good or bad, it's just you have to do it so you get good at it.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 22:32

It's just you have to do it so you get really good, and so that's what I spend my time doing right now. Like I tell people, I'm an expert on how do you create high accountability, high morale environments, how do you create environments that function very well. There's systems and accountability in place, but it feels good and it feels fun and you're balancing it out with good morale and activities and you can do these things at work and at home. For years, I juggled, trying to be one person at home and another person at work, and it left me feeling severed or disconnected or that I'm living in this duality. And the more that I started to leverage the things that work for me at home also work for me at work, and these things from work also work at home, and kind of streamlined it. The easier life got so much more easier, so I spend my time teaching others how to do that.

Daniela SM: 23:28

Why were you two people?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 23:34

I think I believe that I needed to be a certain way at home and a certain way at work. Okay, I'm listening. Oh well, I think it was just a faulty belief system. I was in an environment that really didn't cultivate authenticity. You had to look a certain way, you had to speak a certain way, you had to do things a certain way. It didn't seem very open to the whole self and I'm talking about, maybe me as a Black woman.

Daniela SM: 24:06

How do you, did you slowly turn into this? Or you immediately knew, okay, I need to be this way?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 24:12

No, I think that it was an evolution. I think when you enter into corporate America and again this depends on the culture of what you're working in Certain things are taught and certain things are caught. So certain things they would expressly tell you, and then other things you kind of catch on and you look around and you see this is how they like it done or this is how everyone else is doing it, and then you fall in line and I think I started in this company at about 25 years old, so I was still young in leadership and so I wanted to fit in. I was ambitious, I wanted to move up, and so I thought for a long time I had to behave and be a certain way in order to get certain recognition.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 24:53

I tell people right now I'm wearing braids in my hair, but I went almost maybe eight to 10 years without wearing braids because I had been told that I wouldn't get promoted if my hair was like that, and so I wore my hair a certain kind of way. I managed a lot of men you know, white males and so I was told that you know you can't be as passionate, you need to be as more direct and speak a certain way, and you know, just all these different things. And so I started to adapt this persona in order to be successful or to fit into an environment, and it took me a while to really own who I am, because it created mental and emotional exhaustion, trying to be a certain way at work and then be a certain way at home.

Daniela SM: 25:43

It sounds like you had mentors, people that really wanted you to succeed, but they just told you to change. Or is this something you see that with other women, or the other women will tell you, oh, especially with women.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 25:57

This is men and women, and I would say first, first thing yes, I've had wonderful mentors.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 26:08

I've had mentors that have given me advice and they were very well intentioned and their advice worked.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 26:11

However, I don't think that they were conscientious of what was authentic to me, because certain things that may be authentic to you may not be authentic to me, but I think that they understood what it took in order to get to certain positions in this company and they advised me very well and very accurately.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 26:32

What they didn't understand is it required me to be different than who I was in order to do those things. So definitely not with malicious intent was any advice given. It's just that it required me to be different. It required me to grow in some ways, it required me to adapt in some ways and then, in other ways, it created conflict for me because it just wasn't who I was and I had to mature into a fashion that said, hey, you're right, that works, but that's not me, and so, now that you know what's right for you, if you were to be one of those persons that were giving you the advice, how would you say it to a young you, knowing what you know now and knowing how the world works, because it still hasn't changed too much?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 27:21

One of the things that you have to help people to do is understand what they truly want and understand what that truly entails. I think that I wasn't fully aware of the unintended consequences of assimilating so much. So what I mean by that is I was willing to adapt because I knew that I wanted the promotion, so the only thing that was on my mind was the promotion. I didn't understand how the level of exhaustion it could cause, with trying to be a certain way one day and then go home and be another way, and it feels fine for an extended period of time, but after a while it becomes exhausting. I didn't realize what it does to your spirit when you're consistently being unauthentic to yourself.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 28:08

If I had to give advice to a younger me, it would be to consider the full picture and consider, maybe, the unintended consequences. What happens because of this? What are you not necessarily thinking about If you had to break it up into? Yes, financially, this could be a boost for you. But mentally, emotionally, physically, your family relationships, like what are all these other factors? And I don't think I considered all of that at first. I just wanted, I just, you know, I was on the fast track.

Daniela SM: 28:40

But yes, of course you won the promotion, right? I will tell you with me, I don't think I ever stopped being authentic, but then I didn't get the promotions, and so then now I don't have which is what we're going to talk about with you the burnt out right. You know, like you said, you got into this level and you didn't like the politics, so I already noticed that without getting any more than a management.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 29:04

One of my closest friends was the same way. She told me not to take the position. She's like I'm telling you, don't go to the next level, you're getting too high up. And she's a friend about you know, almost 20 years older than me. I'm very, very close to her. She knew she stayed at her position. She does not want to go any further and she's been able to maintain that position for almost 20 years. But she is so keenly aware of what the other unintended costs are that she won't even try. And I'm talking about she is dynamite, she is fantastic at her job. They would want to promote her in a hot second and she will not do it because she's well aware of all the other costs involved.

Daniela SM: 29:45

Yes, you always have in the back of your head. If I could, what?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 29:50

if.

Daniela SM: 29:50

I think there's never like the happiest perfect place that I don't know if I'm convinced myself that I know what's right and what's best or I'm just trying to convince myself yeah, you didn't make it so better, just be happy with what you got, like I don't know the difference.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 30:03

Yeah, one thing I'm very proud of and happy about in my journey is I have no regrets. Maybe there's a couple of things. I'm like man if I would have caught on to that sooner, but for the most part I am happy and I'm grateful for all the experiences because, like you said, I don't have to wonder if I could have had it, if I would have done it or what it would have been like. I think God was gracious in allowing me to go into the rooms that I really wanted to be in. I had a chance and I had a seat at the table and I had a voice in certain rooms that I wanted to be in and then I realized I don't even like being in this room, so I got up and walked out, but I'm happy to have been in there.

Daniela SM: 30:44

Yes, of course, Of course. So that caused you so getting into the next level, even though your friend told you not to get it.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 30:53

Yeah, she told me not to, I did it anyway.

Daniela SM: 30:56

Don't listen. Of course we don't listen.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 30:58

I will not listen either.

Daniela SM: 31:00

You know better. So what happened? How do you know that you were getting to burn out my mental health had started to become drastically affected.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 31:08

So I was one of those people that had a really bad COVID experience. I was in the hospital seven days. I was on oxygen treatment for almost three months. I'm just feeling almost normal again. It's been almost two years.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 31:22

I had some cognitive issues in terms of my short-term memory and being able to recall information. So think about being this leader of thousands of people, being very sharp, leading meetings, traveling, and now I'm forgetting simple things, or I can't facilitate at the same level because I can't remember my content, like I need note cards, and so it started to really toy with my confidence. And then pile on top of that just the political savviness that's needed in order to work at this level, because you literally are making decisions to navigate a company that has 70,000 employees, so there's a lot of stress and pressure and different things, and then I'm not feeling like myself, and so everything just kind of came to a head. The environment had became very toxic, just with some of the ways that I was being treated or how other employees were being treated. Yeah, the exhaustion was just there. So I just started to become unhappy being there, and the more I started praying about it and thinking about it and I'm a big advocate for, you know, mental health professionals.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 32:32

I got back into counseling and really started sorting through. Hey, I'm feeling like this. I'm starting to develop anxiety. I'm getting headaches and stomach aches and nervousness and heart palpitations Every time I have to go into a meeting with these people. I've never felt this way before. I saw someone murdered when I was a teenager. I didn't have anxiety from it, but literally I was starting to have anxiety from clicking on a Zoom call. This cannot be my life.

Daniela SM: 32:59

I can get that.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 33:03

This cannot be life, and I was like it is time. It is time to figure something else out. I was at the place that when I walked away again, I was making really good money. They had eliminated my position and was going to put me into another role because they wanted to retain me as an employee, and I was just like you know what? That's okay. What's the package?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 33:29

I think I would rather leave and go and figure out the rest of my life. I'm pretty young. I have a great resume, I know what I'm passionate about. There's some things that I want to check off my list. I would rather go and figure it out than to spend another day giving my time to this type of environment, and so for me, it became about my health, and I always go back to my core values, and a part of my core is my kids. You can take a lot of titles away from me, but you can't take away mother. I'm always a mother, and I needed to then make a decision to make sure that I'm here for them, and so I knew that it was time to go, because I would not jeopardize my ability to be here for them.

Daniela SM: 34:14

So why? And so then you got a package and then you were at home. It was a shock that now you have time, too much time.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 34:22

Honestly, I fill my calendar a lot actually, of course.

Daniela SM: 34:27

I thought you were going to say that In this last year and a half.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 34:29

Again, my business has been doing well.

Daniela SM: 34:31

I've worked at the city state yeah, but you didn't have the business. You didn't have the business, so you took the package and you didn't have your business.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 34:38

So I've been a leadership coach for the last four years. I was doing it part-time oh, I see, I coach in my company, but I would pick up a client here and there to do professional coaching for them. I got my accreditation after leaving my full time job. However, I had been coaching for about four years.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 34:57

Again, because of my knowledge in leading people, I had already been tapped on my shoulder like, hey, can you coach me or show me how? How do you coach this person? How do you deal with conflict resolution? How do you coach this person? How do you deal with conflict resolution? How do you performance manage them? And so I was already kind of doing it on the side, wasn't taking it very seriously, picking up a client here there, meeting with them once a week and just coaching. I hadn't formalized any of those processes because I had a full time job, but then, once I left, I built my brand on the things that I was most passionate about. It's always been developing people, and so with Shaysia Coaching and Consulting, I have leadership coaching clients, but I also do training facilitation for, like I said, I've done city, state, government level, you know, just training them in leadership skills. I do small, medium and large size corporations, and then I do one on one or group coaching, where I teach them leadership development.

Daniela SM: 36:00

Nice when you were a manager, so you had a group of people that you manage. How do you do that? You said, ok, well, I see that of these 10 people, two of them have potential. I'm going to focus on them, or I'm going to help them all. How do you help them?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 36:15

As a manager of a team let's say it's a single unit, meaning I am the manager in one building and I see these people very often I'm able to become well aware of every person's skill set and then you kind of manage them accordingly every person's skill set and then you kind of manage them accordingly. Nobody gets to be an underperformer, but we have our average performers and then we have our high performing candidates. The ones that are high performing. You definitely want to put a little bit more time into them, because they're already good. You want to make them great. I may create a development plan for them, give them stretch exercises or stretch goals or little tasks that help extract that potential that I see in them and get them to exercise their leadership muscles so I get them ready for the next level. And then, with my average performing employees meaning they do well but they have no interest or desire to necessarily do something else Then it's about engagement. How do I keep them happy Working with me, working here, it feels fun so that they can continue to deliver what they're already delivering.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 37:13

It's definitely situational leadership really getting to know your people, identifying what their runway is for that individual and then executing a plan that works for them. It's not a one-size-fit-all. That's where some people mess up. In leadership, yes, you treat people equally. However, when you're doing leadership and development, it's discretionary, it's situational. And so I think people think, oh, everybody gets the same. No, like if someone came in with an illness. You don't give everybody antibiotics. You know some people require different types of medicine, so how do you get to know this person and identify what they need in order to reach their full potential? So I'm very much a situational leader. I've never heard of that one Situational leadership meaning where some leaders want everyone to adapt to them. I'm more so of a leader that I can adapt according to who I'm leading.

Daniela SM: 38:07

Okay, I will use the word equity versus equality.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 38:12

Equity is a much better word for it the same as your children's.

Daniela SM: 38:16

you know they're all your kids, you love them all, but they are different and you have to adapt on how you approach them or how you teach them things according to their personality and how they learn best. So I feel like that's.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 38:29

Exactly yeah, very similar to servant leadership also. It's the same way.

Daniela SM: 38:33

Okay good, Because that's what I call myself yeah.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 38:37

Servant leader. Servant leader.

Daniela SM: 38:38

Yes, yes, Because you know like I'm now a supervisor versus a manager For the smarter ways I'm like downgrading slowly. I make sure that they have all the tools, that they have the good schedule, that they are happy. I'm actually serving you, so I work for you.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 38:56

Yeah, yeah, that's a part of my leadership profile is I have that situational servant approach and I balance that with accountability, all right.

Daniela SM: 39:07

So so you decided to continue the coaching, and now you had more time with your kids. And so how is life now?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 39:14

I'm loving life right now. Again, I still work. I'm self-employed, so I get to be my own boss, which is much, much more helpful.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 39:24

I'm able to prioritize my schedule with my families. I have my calendar, able to prioritize my schedule with my families. I have my calendar. I mark out all the activities and plans that I have for the kids. And then I have my days that I'm open to train and facilitate. I make sure that I'm there to service my clients when they need me, but I like being able to partner with companies or people that I feel assigned to, I feel drawn to that. I know that I can help and I have autonomy on the timeframes that I get to help them. So it creates, I guess, the ultimate amount of balance that I'm really excited about and it feels good.

Daniela SM: 40:06

Wonderful, and so when did this idea of writing the book came out?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 40:11

So I've been a writer my whole life. I started my first book at 15 years old. I always knew that I would write a book, but the busyness of life, I never finished one. I started 10 different books and never finished one Really Wow, because I've been so busy. So it always fell to the bottom of the priority list and then, coming into this year, it rose to the top.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 40:34

It was like this is the year you published the book, this is the 20 year anniversary of you becoming a mom, and I had started writing this book about her when she was about six. I was like I don't have to write a book about her because the things that she asks me, none of of my friends, like they always say she said what. Like she said that, she told you that I'm like, yes, and they were all just thinking it was hilarious. Like, oh my God, that girl is like you, times two, very inquisitive, questioned everything, just challenged me, questioned everything, just challenged me. And so I would just journal the different things that she would say to me or our different experiences over the years. So I was able to take the time, go back, find that journal, take out those notes and that's how we have Raising Justice.

Daniela SM: 41:22

Wow, wonderful. And so all these books that you wanted to write are also kind of compiled together into the one.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 41:27

No, no, they'll be different books. My next book will be out early next year is Pieces to Peace. I literally talk about how I left corporate America in pieces, what it did to me emotionally you know my self-esteem some of my experiences with tokenism and code switching and assimilation and more of my professional journey. So Raising Justice is about my journey in motherhood, so it's very specific to that. Pieces to Piece would be about my journey in corporate America, so it's more focused on my professional journey and then those realizations and evolution that I experienced of being super ambitious and almost being willing to do certain things in order to reach the top, only to get to the top and realize that I didn't want to be there and what that did to me, how I built the courage to walk away and build a life that I currently have, so much more happier and excited about life. But pieces to piece will come out next year.

Daniela SM: 42:33

That's wonderful. How do you come up with these cool titles?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 42:38

They come to me in prayer. Really, wow, yes, yes, the third one. I have a third one the high accountability, high morale. And then I have a fourth one, called messy glory. And messy glory is going to be good too.

Daniela SM: 42:52

You're an artist as well. Yeah, I wonder what advice you can give to, you know, young women, let's say, that want to move up and think that the world is their oyster, Without killing. That part of going to the top is not necessarily the best. I wonder how you can encourage and feed that fire that they have inside. Getting everything but yet helping them with a disappointment. I don't know how I would do that.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 43:20

Yeah, I mean, it's about balance. Sometimes we don't do enough work on ourselves to know what we truly want. I would advise young women to ask why, if you have a desire, a burning desire to be something or do something, sit down and do your homework on why, why do you want that? And if I could think back now, I wanted to be in some of those rooms for reasons that didn't really make sense. I had a desire and a passion for leading and developing people, and I had almost tricked myself in believing that there was only one way to do that. And I think if I sat down and really questioned, why not once, maybe five times, well, why? And then why?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 44:06

Like a five-year-old, I may have gotten to the understanding that what I really really wanted to do again was to lead and develop leaders, and I didn't necessarily have to do it there. It's like I thought that I had to accomplish this goal and I became fixated on it happening in this one place, only to realize that I understood my purpose. I knew that whatever I wanted to do in this life, it was going to be to encourage people and encourage leaders, but somehow I got confused and thought that I needed to do it there. So then it led to me making certain decisions or assimilating or killing certain parts of me in order to achieve this goal through one type of funnel.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 44:47

And once I really sat down and realized that what you want to do, you can do anywhere Literally, you want to develop people and leaders who says you have to do it there? It opened up my thought process as to I don't have to sacrifice what I thought I had to sacrifice in order to do what I ultimately want to do. So I would say how do you sit down and question why? To a fault For me, I got fixated on a title and a position and once I really understood why I wanted that title and position, I realized that my why was? I wanted to influence and develop leaders. And then it's like an aha moment. I was like you can do that anywhere.

Daniela SM: 45:34

Yes, and what happens in society insists that being a manager, being a director, is so important and that's why you want to have titles, because you think that's what it is, but those titles are never you, or yours for that matter. No, no.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 45:51

And then another thing that I would advise people to figure out is who you want to be and what you do.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 45:59

Sometimes are two different things, and you have to realize that. I used to remind people at work that this is what I do, this isn't who I am, because I noticed that they had it confused, like if they introduced themselves, it was always the title. It was always I do this and I do that and I'm like that's weird, cause, that's not who I am Like. If I had to introduce myself, I would probably lead in with you know some fun things about me the fact that I'm a mom, I love being a wife, though you a wife, those things seem more connected to me. The other thing is like, well, that's just my job.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 46:35

But again, as I began to mature and evolve, I became like that, but I was like everybody else. You asked me. So I would advise people to figure out who are you or who do you want to be, and that's different than what do you want to do sometimes. And then the closer you can get to align those things, the easier life gets. But sometimes we do things and that's our job, but that's not who we are.

Daniela SM: 47:00

The kids should be able to, in school, learn about who they are before anything. Right, Because we teach them about what to study and what to be when they grow up, but it's not really who you are before anything. Right, Because we teach them about what to study and what to be when they grow up, but it's just not really who you are.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 47:13

And that's one thing I'm doing different with my children. We have conversations about who do you want to be when you grow up, not what do you want to be. We can find you a job. We have ways for you to make money to survive. Who do you want to be? What type of person do you want to be? And I tell them I want you to be kind, I want you to be generous, I want you to be courageous, I want you to be resilient. Now what you want to do is a different thing. You can do that in a different ways. You can do that as a firefighter, you can do that as an architect, you can do that as an attorney. But who you are is different and you have to know who you are?

Daniela SM: 47:50

At what age do you start asking them?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 47:53

I mean, I asked my five-year-old who he is. He has affirmations. I believe it begins early. I'm responsible for helping him to cultivate his identity, one of the things I share in my book about my daughter.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 48:07

She was about in sixth or seventh grade and she had a friend. I'm African-American. This was a friend of hers that's white, you know. They had so much in common and they adored each other. And so she's like oh my God, you're like an Oreo. And my daughter's like huh, what do you mean? I'm like an Oreo and she's like you know, like you're black on the outside but you're like white on the inside, like you're like me is like you know, like you're black on the outside but you're like white on the inside, like you're like me. And my daughter's like I'm not an Oreo, like I'm black on the inside too. Just because we enjoy the same things doesn't make me less black, like you know, and it was interesting, but I was so proud of that moment at 12 years old.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 48:43

That number one she didn't subscribe to white is right that because certain parts of her personality were a certain way that meant that she was more white.

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 48:52

I grew up differently and then she had the courage to educate someone in a polite way that no, you just have a black friend. That doesn't make me more white, because we have a lot in common. You just found out that black people have same interests as white people. We have a lot in common. You just found out that Black people have same interests as white people, and that's OK. But that doesn't mean that I'm white now or I'm like a white person because I enjoy the same things as you. That all comes from how I teach them confidence and who they are, and she's always had a great understanding of this is who I am, and so she hasn't had to deal with some of the peer pressure issues that certain teens fall into, because she's had a very good sense of self. So I think it's important to start early telling your kids, or teaching them, who they are or the type of person you want them to be.

Daniela SM: 49:39

Wonderful. That's wonderful, and I'm glad that you are doing that, because it's true. This is the best start early to have better people in this world. Doris, is there anything else that we need to talk about that we're missing?

Doris Jackson-Shazier: 49:51

I mean I feel like we covered a lot, I think. In closing, I would just like to encourage everyone that's listening do it, and do it scared Sometimes. Sometimes there's things out there that we know in our heart that we need to accomplish, and sometimes fear and doubt kills more dreams than actual trying. So I would say, if there's something out there that you really want to do, do it. Do it a little scared, it's okay. And if you need a leadership coach or thought partner or someone to help you think through some of those kind of limited beliefs or help you to reshape the way you're thinking about your potential, I'm available. My website is dorisjacksonchaziercom. Don't forget to copy your copy of Raising Justice the lessons that I have learned through motherhood.

Daniela SM: 50:37

Yes, wonderful. We will put that in the show notes for everybody to have access as well, thank you. Thank you so much for this beautiful story. Thank you, I appreciate it, daniela. Thank you, I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I am Daniela and you were listening to, because Everyone has a Story. Please take five seconds right now and think of somebody in your life that may enjoy what you just heard, or someone that has a story to be shared and preserved. When you think of that person, shoot them a text with the link of this podcast. This will allow the ordinary magic to go further. Join me next time for another story conversation. Thank you for listening. Hasta pronto.