Experiencing the Magic - How Walking the Camino Transformed Everything - Kirsten Rudberg : 140

Kirsten Rudberg's incredible story begins with eerie coincidences following the death of a close friend, which led her to embark on the Camino de Santiago in 2013.
From meeting strangers who resembled her late friend to receiving unsolicited travel guides, every sign nudged her toward a path of spiritual awakening and personal transformation.

As an MDiv graduate, panentheist, author, screenwriter, producer, and podcaster, Kirsten brings a unique perspective to her journey.

Experience the emotional highs and lows of the Camino through acts of unexpected kindness and profound connections. Kirsten's journey uncovers how these experiences deepened her appreciation for the kindness of strangers and the shared human experience, equipping her to help others in their own lives. Solo travel on the Camino can bring about profound self-realizations and personal transformations. It involves moments of intense introspection. Ultimately, it emphasizes the significance of supportive, loving individuals in our lives. This episode offers an understanding of the magic that the Camino de Santiago holds for most people.
Let's enjoy her story!

To Connect with Kirsten: https://bytesizedblessings.com/
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCIz3UNDM6PQsjudJJE2RCSg

Chapters

• 11:11 Unexpected Connections and Life Lessons
• 24:00 Walking the Camino
• 36:46 Journey to Self-Discovery and Faith
• 44:54 Discovering Identity and Spiritual Connection

Transcript

Daniela SM : 0:04

Hi, I'm Daniela. Welcome to my podcast. Because Everyone has a Story, the place to give ordinary people's stories the chance to be shared and preserved. Our stories become the language of connections. Let's enjoy it, connect and relate, because everyone has a story. Relate because everyone has a story. Welcome.

Daniela SM : 0:26

I am delighted to introduce Kirsten Rudberg. She has a master's in divinity and is a panentheist. What is a panentheist? I had no idea until now what he meant. While the universe is part of God, god has also transcended the universe. Panentheist maintains that God exists both with and beyond the universe there a new concept for some of you and definitely for me. Kirsten is also an author, screenwriter, producer and podcaster.

Daniela SM : 0:56

Also lovely, with beautiful blue eyes and a kind heart. Spending time with Kirsten was absolutely joy. Kirsten's journey began with strange coincidences after the death of a close friend, leading her to embark on El Camino de Santiago in 2013. Along the way, she encountered acts of kindness and deep connections which deepened her appreciation for the kindness of strangers. El Camino brings about personal transformation through solo travel for her moments of introspection and themes of spiritual awakening to the path that Kirsten is now. This is my third story about El Camino. I'm always curious about people transforming during this experience, and Kirsten has a very detailed explanation of why I love the way she shared her story. It's quite interesting and engaging, so I hope you enjoyed her story as much as I did. Welcome Kristen to the show. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I'm excited too, so tell me, why do you want to share your story?

Kirsten Rudberg: 2:05

I want to share my story because I want to inspire other people to be open to what life has to offer, whether it's messages or signs for directions they can go in their life, how the universe is trying to co-create with them, work with them, maybe suggest, nudge them a little bit in a certain direction, because my story is really strange, but also wonderful and beautiful.

Daniela SM : 2:28

Yes, and that's why I'm super intrigued to hear it. So when does your story start?

Kirsten Rudberg: 2:33

My story- starts a few years before I walked the Camino de Santiago in 2013. In 2010, I went and I spent a few months with a dear friend in Florida who was passing away of Parkinson's surgery. But at the last moment they decided to do this experimental brain surgery and I went down to be with her for those few months, and that's all to say, just as a testament to how much I loved her. I loved her so much I gave up my life, my job, everything. I drove across the US to be with her and unfortunately she passed away the next year. Her Parkinson's was really aggressive and she just really, from the beginning, did not have a chance. So a couple of years passed. After that, I went to a feast day in Portland, oregon. It was at a monastery and the woman sitting right next to me was a carbon copy of my dear friend who'd passed away. And I thought, oh my goodness, I was kind of taken aback and completely shocked because no one looked like my dear friend, linda. And here was this woman and afterwards I ran into her while we were eating, we started talking and she said, oh, I'm a Presbyterian minister, I'm going to walk the Camino next spring. And I thought what? I don't even know what this is. What is this? I mean, I'm so shocked. And my partner at the time? He said, oh yes, it's this pilgrimage route. There's 12 different ways in Europe to get to Santiago. It's been done for thousands of years. And I thought, okay, I guess that's cool. But for Christmas, a few months later, he gave me some traveling pamphlets because he said, hey, check it out, see what it's all about. See what it's all about. And I thought, okay, okay, what is a feast day? Yeah, a feast day. So it was yeah, it's at this monastery, it was for Our Lady of Guadalupe, it's at this monastery, it was for Our Lady of Guadalupe and it was her feast day. So the feast day of that saint, of Our Lady of Guadalupe. So everyone gets together, lots of delicious food, lots of live music and celebration, kind of just reverence for Our Lady.

Kirsten Rudberg: 4:41

Life went along and I was living my life and a dear friend then messaged me and said, hey, I saw this movie and I think you might like it and so I'm going to send it to you. And this was I'm dating myself here. Okay, everybody, she sent me a DVD. I opened the mail, I get a DVD, I put it in and it turns out to be this movie called the Way by Emilio Estevez Martin Sheen, and it's basically a fictional account of these pilgrims walking the Camino. And I thought, oh gosh, what a sweet sentiment. I mean, thank you for thinking of me. I don't know why you sent me this. I mean, I guess I see what the route looks like a little bit and what the realities are. But oh, that's really sweet, thank you, I appreciate it.

Kirsten Rudberg: 5:24

And then about six months go by and I met my acupuncturist and out of nowhere he said you know, my mom just walked the Camino and she broke her ankle. And I said what? Why are you telling me this? And he said I don't know. I just I feel like I should tell you for some reason you're talking about traveling. My mom just got back because she broke her ankle. She went about 300 miles and I thought oh, okay, that's cool, good for your mom. I feel sorry for her ankle, but good for her.

Kirsten Rudberg: 5:57

And then two months later, another dear friend called me. She was cleaning out her mom's study in Kansas and her mom was a little pack rat so had kept everything for decades. And my dear friend said okay, I'm calling you and this is just bonkers. But I found this pamphlet that I feel like you should have and so I don't know why, but I'm mailing it to you. And I said, okay, I mean it to you. And I said, okay, I mean that is weird, but okay, I'll take it.

Kirsten Rudberg: 6:30

And a few days pass, it comes in the mail and I open the envelope and it's a travel guide to the Camino from the 1960s. Oh, wow, and I thought what is happening? What is going on? So whenever I have a question about my life or what's going on, I go to my tarot deck and I pull a card. So I pulled a card and the card said you have not been listening to the messages that we've been sending. And I sat down on the bed and I, like, looked up at the universe or spirit or whatever, and I said you've got to be kidding me. Because A what are you even talking about? I have a job, I have a life, I own a house, I have animals. I don't do this. I'm not religious, by the way, I'm not Catholic, I don't hike. I mean, what are you talking about? This is absolutely insane.

Daniela SM : 7:19

Kristen. Okay, you're not religious, but you are spiritual. Yes, you did the tarot cards. You believe in this universe. You did the feast. The feast seems to be a religious thing, though.

Kirsten Rudberg: 7:31

Yes, yes, my partner was Catholic so I would go with him to different events and I love Our Lady. I have a real affinity for the I guess you could call it the female, the female energy in the universe, and so for me it was really. And I love monasteries because I love solitude and how peaceful they are and I love new experiences. So it kind of hit all these boxes for me for why I'd want to go.

Daniela SM : 7:56

But you were not too spiritual, you just took it lightly. Yeah, absolutely.

Kirsten Rudberg: 8:01

Yes, yeah, I wrestled over it, talked with a few people because I couldn't quite believe this was happening. And then, a few weeks later, I decided okay, I mean, I guess, I mean, I guess I could look at this like an invitation and that I'm being asked to do this, which is really bizarre, but I, on faith, I'm going to. And the second I decided to do it, every door blew open for me. A friend said hey, I need a place to stay for a few months. I can totally come, stay at your house, take care of the animals, do all of that.

Kirsten Rudberg: 8:35

I did research online. I found a route that was that started in Southern France, because the Lapuis route is known as a party route, and I thought, okay, if I'm being asked to do this, I want something that's more intentional and that has more integrity. So I ended up walking a route that went through France mostly and it was known for its solitude and how physically arduous it was. And you know, unbeknownst to me, france was going to have the worst weather it had had in 90 years and it ended up snowing and hailing on me in May. It ended up snowing and hailing on me in May. It ended up raining the entire time I was covered in mud most of the time, oh God. But yeah, I was doing. I did all this research, decided on this route and then drove across the US and got on a ship and took a ship to Barcelona, spent a week there and then took three trains to Southern France to start walking and walking.

Kirsten Rudberg: 9:28

I have to tell everybody that I had a really singular experience on the Camino. That was really bizarre and strange and a little backstory when I was turning 40, I was beside myself, I hadn't slept for a few weeks, I was going through a lot. I'm not sure if it's what was turning 40, I was beside myself, I hadn't slept for a few weeks, I was going through a lot. I'm not sure if it's what was going on the stress of turning 40, but life change, all of these things and this is going to sound a little far out there, but bear with me. And so I went to Eastern Oregon with my dad and sister who were visiting, and my partner at the time, and we were having breakfast one day and I went outside because I could feel an anxiety attack coming on. I was starting to lose it. I could feel like I was going to start crying. I was trying to breathe and I walked back into the restaurant and walked up to their table and I felt this energy or this feeling come into me, where it felt like half of my brain was split off and the conscious part of me stood back and said, oh my gosh, what's going on? And then I said something to my sister that was so horrible and mean and terrible and totally without context that it ruined the entire vacation and, you know, everybody left. They went back home. My partner was a little shocked, but he was like I need to think about this. I mean, it destroyed everything and I thought that I had lost my mind. I mean, I was beside myself For months. I cried and I cried and I cried. I thought about putting myself in a mental hospital because I didn't understand what had happened. I was devastated. I was devastated.

Kirsten Rudberg: 11:11

And then, a few years later, I'm at my restaurant where I'm working early in the morning, and this guy comes in and he's sitting at the counter and he's reading a book. And it's 6.30 in the morning and I always tell everyone hey, look, you have to at least be a little nice at 6.30 in the morning. So he was reading a book. And I walked up to him and I said I'm going to make him talk to me. And I said to him hey, what are you reading? And he said oh, it's a book on math and logic.

Kirsten Rudberg: 11:38

And that same thing happened again. And I said back to him and in the middle of this my conscious part of my brain thought oh, my gosh, that thing is happening again. And then these words came out of me and in the middle my conscious brain thought I don't even know how this sentence ends. Something said through me oh, do you think math is invented or discovered? And then we had this incredible conversation and I was really sad when he left because I really felt that I'd made a dear friend, someone who really got me, someone who understood me. And I was sad when he left and I didn't get his information. But then he walked in the next day and I said oh you're back, it's so good to see you.

Kirsten Rudberg: 12:20

And he said I have to tell you something. That's really bizarre. And he said, about two minutes before you came over and asked me about my book I just finished five pages on whether math was invented or discovered. And then you came up and you said this to me and I don't know what to do with this because it is so strange. And he said I think we're supposed to be friends. And I said I agree. We then developed an incredible, incredible friendship. So now, if we go back to the Camino, I was walking on the Camino and I met another pilgrim. I'm going to call her Jennifer.

Kirsten Rudberg: 12:56

Jennifer was a little bit of a sourpuss. It was clear that she'd been struggling. She walked the Camino every year but really negative, negative about the French people, negative about her experience, really wrestling with a lot of stuff. We went through another day where it rained on us, it snowed on us, and we got to the Auberge where we were staying and it was three of us pilgrims, so Jennifer and I and another pilgrim, and we were having dinner at the Auberge and she was just going on and on about how terrible France was, how terrible everyone was. She would tell stories about her examples, about how bad everybody was, and in a pause I said, oh my gosh, I have not had any of those experiences. That's so strange. And she got so angry and upset and they always say that there's a point on the Camino that you break. Every pilgrim breaks she got so angry, she started yelling at me and screaming. She stood up so quickly. Her chair flipped back in the kitchen. She started sobbing and screaming at me and was clearly beside herself, just devastated and broken. And then she stormed out to go out to have a cigarette.

Kirsten Rudberg: 14:15

Meanwhile, the other pilgrim who's at the table with us, he said oh, I'm going to go to my bedroom now. Okay, good night, everybody, all right, bye, bye. And so I was left at the table bedroom now. Okay, good night, everybody, all right, bye, bye. And so I was left at the table, completely beside myself, terrified because I thought to myself I can't run away from this. Because I'm a great, I love to run away from conflict. And this was so intense for me and scary, I thought I can't leave her. I cannot leave her. I'm so scared of what's going to happen when she comes back. But I can take it. I can take it, I think. But I have to sit here and wait and be present when she comes back. And so after a few minutes she came back in and she was still crying and she said I'm so sorry, I'm exhausted. I think I just hit my breaking point. You know I'm I don't know what came over beside herself because of her behavior and how she'd lost it.

Kirsten Rudberg: 15:13

And I said, oh my gosh. I said please do not even worry about it. Okay, I need to tell you that one time I said something so horrific to my sister and my father that it left a 50 wide diameter circle of nuclear devastation around everyone. I mean, it destroyed everything. And she said, really. And I said oh yeah, yeah, what you just did was literally nothing. What I did like ruined people's lives. So you are okay. You know this is not a big deal. Please don't feel like it's a big deal, it's okay. She was still crying and still upset and there was still a lot that she wasn't happy with. And so I sat there with her for another hour or so and we just talked. And it's not like I changed her mind about France or the French people, but after talking with her for a while I could tell that all the shame and humiliation and horror that she was feeling about behaving like this just kind of disappeared and it went away. She felt more at peace with what had happened.

Kirsten Rudberg: 16:27

We walk a few more days and we get to this town. I go my direction, she goes hers. We promised to meet for lunch the next day, so we're sitting at lunch and she said I want to this town. I go my direction, she goes hers. We promised to meet for lunch the next day, so we're sitting at lunch and she said I want to tell you I have something for you. Where I'm staying, the gentleman has a ton of these and she holds up a coquilla, a shell, which is a sign of the pilgrim. And I'd been looking for a coquilla for six weeks on the road while I walked. I mean, you're supposed to be a real pilgrim when you tie that coquilla. It's the sign of St James. Everyone knows that you're a pilgrim on the Camino. But I couldn't find one, so I felt like a faux pilgrim. She said I just took one, I drilled a hole in it for you and I attached this string. Now you can wear it on your pack.

Kirsten Rudberg: 17:10

Oh, I felt my heart was so excited, I was so excited and we had a really sweet lunch and then we said goodbye to each other and you know, my brain is so thick, I'm such a thick head and it wasn't until like a day or two later that I realized oh my gosh I mean that was directly for me okay, because I'm creating meaning out of this experience. That shell was basically the universal spirit saying good job, you showed up, you were there for another pilgrim or another human being and you did the hard work. You didn't run away, you were present, you had the conversation and you had the hard work. And I almost fell to my knees when I realized that I would have never been able to give Jennifer that conversation or that taking away of her shame or humiliation, unless I would have experienced what happened to me years ago, the first time when I said that horrible thing with my father and my sister. I would have never been able to say hey, please don't worry about it. I had something happen that was so much worse. Yours is really nothing in the scheme of things.

Kirsten Rudberg: 18:22

And when I understood that and when I realized that, I almost started crying, because I understood that there is well, I mean, after all the signs about walking the Camino, you'd think I'd get it. But I understood that there are greater forces happening in the world and that sometimes things happen to us or through us that we don't expect, that break our hearts open, or that just break our hearts and later that suffering, that horror or humiliation, we can use it to heal someone else. It's not as if I was okay with whatever was going on in my brain. I still semi-thought that I was losing my mind. I still semi -thought that I should have been put in an institution. But why? Why do you think so? Oh, because I didn't understand the experience of having something come and speak through me.

Kirsten Rudberg: 19:11

But then I went to go see the shaman in Santa Fe and I was telling her about this experience and she said, oh, compassionate possession. And I said what? And she said that happens all the time to people. And I said are you joking? I said I wish I could have known this years ago because I had been walking around thinking that I was losing my grasp on reality. And she said oh, no, no, it's very common. Sometimes the angels or the spirits, they have a message for someone and they'll just find the closest person and they just kind of zip on in really quickly, say what they need to say, and then they, they exit and you're kind of left befuddled with what, what happened and I said, oh my goodness. But.

Daniela SM : 20:00

I would understand. It's like so you, you felt something that came to you when you say something horrible to your sister and your father, but so it wasn't you. Yes, and that is a good thing. Like the angels, come and do things like this to us, well how I view it is that I had to have that experience.

Kirsten Rudberg: 20:20

You know the second one, of course, was much more beneficial. Right, I made a new friend. It was another experience, that kind of ratified what had happened the first time, and so I could say, okay, that first time. Now I have a reference point for what happened to me. But I do think sometimes I would have never been able to be with Jennifer and taken away that pain and suffering that she was feeling, unless I would have had a story.

Kirsten Rudberg: 20:47

And so the way I look at it is, yes, after that first incident there was so much suffering and my sister and I have made up, my father doesn't even remember it anymore. Everything's fine with that. We had lots of conversations about it. But yes, I do think I view that episode as it created so much suffering for me, so much heartache, so much loss. I just felt so much bereavement, but out of it, because I had the experience, I could be present and help someone else take away their shame and their humiliation. That incident was for my highest good, maybe not for my dad and sisters, although I have better relationships with everyone now, but also it helped me to be there for someone else for their highest good years later, if that makes any sense.

Daniela SM : 21:36

Okay and so then. So that was one of experience from the Camino and you kind of connected the dots. Anything else that happened.

Kirsten Rudberg: 21:45

Oh, just that. Because France had the worst weather it had had in 90 years, everyone quit walking. I mean, it was terrible, like lords flooded that year. The weather was so bad. But I thought you know what? I came here to do this, so I'm not going to quit. I did a route, like I said, that was known for its solitude. Not many people spoke English, I didn't speak very much French, but to say that I was taken care of with so much love by complete strangers. I'm in love with France now.

Kirsten Rudberg: 22:17

I would go into these small villages and have people hanging out of their windows wishing me bonjournée. I couldn't find anywhere to stay, so I slept in the French forest one night, wet as a dog. The next day, when I walk into the next town, and I just decided I'm going to stay here and dry out for a few days. And as I was leaving, the woman at this place said what are you doing? And I said oh, I'm walking the Camino.

Kirsten Rudberg: 22:40

And she said alone. And I said yeah, and she said hold on a second, and she came back with this huge basket of food, fresh food, for me to take to put in my pack. I had so many experiences where people loved on me and took care of me and kind of just France like, folded me in its arms. I can't explain why that happened, because I've talked to other people and they said that I did not have that experience and I said I don't know if it was pity because it was raining every day or what was going on, but I had so many people love on me so deeply, complete strangers, that it kind of changed my entire life because it changed my idea of how I could be loved in the world, even by people who didn't know me.

Daniela SM : 23:27

Yes, you know this is a subject that I always talk in lately. Some countries in Europe, they are more into this work as a collective community rather than individualistic, and so I feel like in Europe you will have more experience like that, that people will come and help you. Not everybody will experience it, because you were alone and it was raining and then you had all the factors to help you out, but I think this also, that people are very kind and in general, everybody does things like that yeah absolutely, and I think it was.

Kirsten Rudberg: 24:00

I was a woman walking alone. That was the other thing that people were kind of shocked by. I had many people say are you walking alone? And I said yeah, because I'd been asked to do the Camino. I felt safe. Every person. I bumped into a mother with her children one day in the forest. She said are you walking alone? And I said yeah, and she said, oh my gosh, you're so brave and it hadn't even occurred to me that what I was doing was dangerous, that maybe something bad it could happen. Who was asking you? These other French people? Well, the woman at the hotel, like I said. And then I was walking on this French street through this village and this gorgeous, gorgeous, I don't know 75-year-old French woman with gray hair that was just cascading down her shoulders. She just walked up to me and grabbed my face and she said what are you doing? And I said I'm walking the Camino and she said alone and I said yes, and she just held me and said bless you, and held my hand for a while and we had a broken conversation. But yes, it seemed to be. Everyone was totally shocked that I was walking by myself alone.

Kirsten Rudberg: 25:10

Yeah, and how long did it take you? Well, I did a more expansive version of the Camino. You know a lot of people. They walk two weeks because that's how much time they have off from work. They do a section and then the next year they come back and do the next section. I walked for two and a half months. I went to Northern Spanish coast and then I thought, oh gosh, it's not going to be that hot along the Spanish coast, even though they tell you do not walk in June and July. I thought, oh, it's not going to be hot. And oh my gosh, it was so hot that I stopped going to the bathroom.

Kirsten Rudberg: 25:44

I got so dehydrated that I had this moment, this moment where I was climbing up the side of this French kind of cliff in the forest with my backpack on my back and I was so ill. And I had this moment that you see in the movies, where the person just gets broken open and I just howled. I mean, I broke and I screamed and howled out to the wilderness and did not start crying because I didn't have any tears to give at that point, because I was so dehydrated. But my first thought was oh my goodness, please tell me. No one heard me. Two oh my gosh, this is so boring. Everybody does this. In every movie they have this moment where they howl out to the wilderness. And I can't believe I'm so boring.

Kirsten Rudberg: 26:38

And then the third thing I had this thought oh my gosh, my partner is never going to let me not walk this and finish this journey. And then I stopped and I thought why did that come up? What kind of a thought is that to have? This is my journey. Am I doing this for me?

Kirsten Rudberg: 26:54

And it opened up this whole other can of worms, I guess you could call it, about how I'd given my power away, how I was doing things for other people, how I wasn't doing things for myself, how dysfunctional my relationship with my partner at the time was and not balanced at all. Then, of course, that revelation was. Then I had to have a few years of therapy around that and figuring that out. Yeah, I had that moment. I kept walking through the forest and passed these nice gentlemen who studiously avoided my eyes because I'm sure they'd heard me scream, howl in the wilderness. They said hello, they were very polite and then I kept walking. I think I got to Deba on the Spanish coast, spent a few days in bed, and then I spent a week in bed in Santander, yes, and then I took the ferry to Cornwall, spent three weeks in Cornwall and then took the Queen Mary back to New York.

Daniela SM : 27:47

Okay, so you rested afterwards. You rested a week after you were done. Yes, in the two months you were walking every day. Yes, and how many kilometers a day were you doing?

Kirsten Rudberg: 27:56

Oh gosh, that varied from day to day. You know, the first day I walked 28 kilometers with one bottle of water, had no idea what I was doing, Learned my lesson, Took a lot more water, so I was walking anywhere from. I would say at the end I was walking around 28 to 30 kilometers a day, but it was anywhere from, you know, could be 14 kilometers to about 28 or 30. It just depended on the stages and where different villages were, what kind of aubergines or hostels there were where the cities were. But I was lucky. You know, I took a week off in the middle and went to Toulouse and spent a week in Toulouse and looked at all the museums and the art in Toulouse.

Daniela SM : 28:38

That's a lot of kilometers. That's not the usual average that people do, right, I think they do much less.

Kirsten Rudberg: 28:43

Yeah, so the route that I took is very different than the Lopuy route, where the Lopuy route is fabulous because everyone's doing it, you're pretty safe. You can walk a kilometer, get an espresso, walk another kilometer, have a glass of wine. You can really walk as little or as much as you want on that route, because my route was so different and known for its solitude. You had maps, you had guides to let you know where the next place was. Sometimes you'd call ahead the day before and say, hey, is there a place for me to sleep there? You know, just to let you know I'm coming. So you'll know you have a pilgrim coming tonight. Yeah, that's not average. 28 kilometers is not average at all, and you have always been fit.

Daniela SM : 29:27

Like you always walk that much in general, oh no.

Kirsten Rudberg: 29:34

Oh, no, no, no. That first day, when I only had that one bottle of water, it was just a purely a matter of survival. I knew that if I didn't get to the next place, that I was not going to have a place to sleep, have no food and I'd be in serious trouble. So I had to keep going, yeah.

Daniela SM : 29:48

So, besides your brain and your thoughts that change, anything else physically that changed for you after that two and a half months?

Kirsten Rudberg: 29:55

Oh yeah, I mean, I have to tell you that one of the best parts about the Camino and if you're walking through France is you can eat 20 chocolate croissants a day and still lose weight. I fell in love with French food. I cannot wait to get back there and have more croissants. But yes, I lost about 20 to 25 pounds. And when you're walking that much, the route was really up and down, it was not flat, it was very up hills, through valleys, et cetera, et cetera. After a while you get in better shape and it gets really comfortable to put your pack on in the morning and just walk. The best part about it was being able to eat French sandwiches and croissants and what have you, and still the weight just comes right off?

Daniela SM : 30:38

Okay, but there's a portion from France, but there's also a big portion from Spain. So what were you eating?

Kirsten Rudberg: 30:45

there. Oh yeah, all the delicious stuff Ham amazing. Papas Kind of was lamenting that every once in a while that I didn't have a hamburger because I just wanted one because of America and hamburgers. Every once in a while I'd find a place with a cheeseburger in Spain. I was like, oh yes, I'm so excited, but other than that it was a lot of tapas patatas bravas, is that how you say it? Amazing ham, delicious meats Patatas bravas Is that how you say it? Amazing ham, delicious meats. Little side dishes of like pickles and onions and stuff like that. Yeah, very different than France.

Daniela SM : 31:19

Yeah, we have friends who did it in three months and then they took the same route as you. Which one is the one that you said? That is the party route.

Kirsten Rudberg: 31:27

Oh, le Puy, it is very safe. It's very safe and it's a great route because you'll meet so many people from all over the world and you'll make so many friends and it goes right through a lot of fabulous, fabulous cities with incredible architecture and art and festivals and I heard this from other people but it's really a gorgeous way of seeing the world. I think the Camino is because it's slow travel, right. You kind of get up in the morning, brush your teeth, have something to eat, put your pack on, walk and then the next day it's very contemplative practice. You do the same thing and you just do it over and over and over and it really slows life down in this gorgeous way, so that you kind of walk with this intention that you're just going to get through the day. You're going to have the adventure that you're going to have and it's going to be okay, that everything's going to be all right, that you have to rely on your own body to do it. So what?

Daniela SM : 32:28

about your thoughts? Did they were disappearing? Were they changing? You were just talking to yourself. How was that?

Kirsten Rudberg: 32:35

Every once in a while I'd meet someone to walk with. We'd have a great conversation, but I was alone a lot and I brought a iPod listening to music. But other than that, yes, when you're alone and you're walking, these things come up right, these thoughts. I love nature and the environment and there's nothing like coming over the crest of a hill and seeing an 800-year-old church off on another hill. That's by itself, there's nothing else.

Kirsten Rudberg: 33:02

So I really spent a lot of time reflecting on the beauty because it was raining so much, it was dark most days, just miserable. There's nothing like walking through the woods for a few hours, coming to a small village where there will be a church. You know there's going to be a church. It's 400, 500 years old, it's going to be open and so you know you can walk into that church. There's going to be no light, but it is going to be lit by candlelight. I was alone in those churches and there's the smell of incense and wax and I got to look at, not only get out of the rain, which was nice, but I got to look at incredible art, just to see how this small village worships. So I'm really into beauty. You have to know that Beauty and reverie and finding places that are precious and that make my heart happy. So there was a lot of reflection on what made my heart happy and excitement with the day.

Kirsten Rudberg: 33:58

I don't think I can do this. Am I insane? I'm all alone, like where is everybody? And why am I doing this? You know, I mean, why am I being asked to do this? Because it's so bizarre and, by the way, no one else I know is doing this. So why am I being asked to do this? Dark thoughts come up, you know, because your unconscious can open and these things float to the surface and you just kind of wonder. I wrestle with them, wrestle with old stories that I have about myself, old stories that I still have, that I'm still trying to unpack and figure out. But mostly I was loving the nature, the beauty, the incredible beauty, and how lucky I was to be able to even do it at all.

Daniela SM : 34:45

That sounds beautiful. But everybody who does the Camino, it seems like there's a change. I just wonder if that's really true for everyone. Does everybody who goes there has an issue, or you can just walk it and automatically something would change? It's just the fact that you're walking and the repetition that every day is the same. What do you think?

Kirsten Rudberg: 35:05

Well, I mean, I can speak for myself and say that I had an incredible change. You know, I was so fortunate that I got to do it for a long time People who can do it for like a month or more. I think you can really get into a place where thoughts can arise or change can happen when you're doing it for two weeks. Every year I witnessed this. The people were just in a rush to get to the next place. It was just all about where do I get to? I got to do this, I've got to bust this out.

Kirsten Rudberg: 35:36

But when people have a more expansive experience of the Camino, I definitely think that change can happen, that shifting of who we are, the groundwork of who we are, it can shift a little bit. For me, the change was I went home with this not only knowing that I can do something brave, not only knowing that I can do something. That kind of semi-terrified me because I was doing it alone, but I also went home with the knowledge that I am taken care of and that I'm being looked after, and that I'm being looked after and that I'm being guided. All those messages about walking the Camino put me right on that path to walk the Camino, so then I could be of service to Jennifer in this small village in the middle of nowhere. But also, at the end, I had that revelation where I thought I can't stop, he'll never let me.

Kirsten Rudberg: 36:24

I thought I can't stop, he'll never let me, and that was the first understanding of me beginning to unpack the realization that I was in a somewhat abusive relationship, that I'd given all of my power and control away to someone else. I thought I can't believe that this is how it's happened, because it happened so slowly. It was kind of insidious the way it happened. It happened very slowly over time. But I think it is a dynamic that I have. Where I want to people, please make other people happy to my own detriment. I tend to err to the benefit of other people and I'm still trying to unpack that. What does that look like to have good boundaries? What does it look like to honor myself? What does it look like to honor what my soul wants, where my soul wants to go? It was both a beautiful but also exhausting way to have that revelation.

Daniela SM : 37:15

Yes, I can imagine you arrive in Santiago and you got your stamps and everything.

Kirsten Rudberg: 37:20

No, I did not get to Santiago because the second I had that howl on the side of the mountain and then I had that thought. I got this message or this thought. It's like, okay, all right, this is what you're supposed to do. It's done, this is what you came for. I just knew intuitively that my journey was done. Besides for the fact that I needed to go lay in bed for a week to rehydrate and feel better, I had so much peace knowing that I'd shown up for myself in my own life, even done something that was so ridiculous because my family could not understand why I was doing what I was doing. They thought I was crazy pants and it was just utter peace that I'd done what I came to do and that I could go home. Now. It's hard to explain.

Daniela SM : 38:05

No, no, I get it, I get it. You know, and if you get that message, conscious or not conscious, you're not going forward Like that's it, that's it. Your brain is saying that's it, yeah, that's wonderful. So you went back home and you did lots of changes or what happened?

Kirsten Rudberg: 38:23

Oh, I wish that was true. I went home and it took me a few years to know I still stayed with him. I dated him for a few more years until I got the call and I feel like it was a call to move to Santa Fe and go to seminary. Get my Master's of Divinity at Isle of School of Theology in Denver to seminary. Get my master's of divinity at Isle of School of Theology in Denver. And now I self-identify as a panentheist, which means that I see God in everything, that everything's sacred, everything has legitimacy and that this universe wants to co-create with us. It just wants to have a conversation of sorts. But yeah, it took me quite a long time to break up with him and stand up for myself.

Daniela SM : 39:02

But one second. What studies did you have before? Anything related to what you just went to?

Kirsten Rudberg: 39:07

No, no not at all. So how did you?

Daniela SM : 39:09

come up with. Okay, I'm going to study to be a Master of Divinity.

Kirsten Rudberg: 39:14

Masters of Divinity, yeah, go to seminary. Part of it is that I have loved learning since I was a kid and everyone I've known has said, oh, if you could be in school for the rest of your life, you would be totally happy, and that's 100% true. But also, since I grew up overseas and saw so many different religions and cultures, went to school with kids from all over the world, traveled so extensively. When I was a child, I've always been intrigued with how humans create meaning, how they figure out their world, and that's caused me to investigate and read folk tales, fairy tales, myths from all over the world my entire life, because I just think how humans try to figure out the world and their relationship to it is enchanting. It is for me, I love it to. It is enchanting, it is for me, I love it. So around the time I finished the Camino, several years had passed, and my partner at the time, who I broke up with subsequently, he was Catholic and very devout and he had a wall of books on Catholic mysticism, on saints, and so I was going through his bookshelf just reading everything that I could, and it really started to speak to me, all of these ideas and all of these beautiful ways of relating to the world. I'm very much a mystic, very heart-centered, and the mystics in Catholicism I just felt were connecting in a way that was really divine, that was really mysterious, really beautiful Around that time I was listening to NPR and there was an argument or there was a rabbi, a priest and an Anglican minister and they were talking about something, they were having a discussion on something, they had different points of view and they were kind of arguing with each other and I got really jealous.

Kirsten Rudberg: 40:58

I got so upset that I wasn't being included in the conversation. I kind of was irritated by the entire show and I thought, oh, oh, my gosh, that's telling. And I realized at that point that I wanted to get the kind of education and get ordained, go to seminary so that I could be included in these conversations, so that I could be someone with the knowledge and the intelligence and the learning who could contribute to these kinds of discussions, and so that's kind of how I found my way to get my Masters of Divinity. I've been ordained in the Church of Universal Interfaith because I believe in interfaith and also because I don't believe in organized religion, and it's also why I identify as a panentheist.

Daniela SM : 41:43

But is this something that exists? The panentheist, oh yeah, Absolutely so you went to study like theology in a way, but without being Catholic, exactly.

Kirsten Rudberg: 41:55

I went to a Methodist seminary in Denver. It's a very liberal Methodist seminary founded by John Wesley. I was in school with. My cohort consisted of everyone you can imagine evangelicals, presbyterians, lutherans, I mean every kind of Mormons, all these different faith religions went to either get a master's of theology, a master's of divinity, masters of theology with social work, because it's a very inclusive seminary. I'm not a member of an organized religion and so you are unique. Yeah, I'd say the closest maybe that you could, that's, closest to panentheism, would be either Unitarian or a unity church. Those two would probably be closest to how I self-identify.

Daniela SM : 42:41

And so how, when you met your colleagues, how were they reacting when they said well, no, I don't belong to an organized religion?

Kirsten Rudberg: 42:50

Oh, they were fine. They were fine, I think, partially because the school was known for being very liberal, but also because everyone was on their own journey. You know, seminary really breaks people open. Most people were Christian, so I was definitely in own journey. Seminary really breaks people open. Most people were Christian, so I was definitely in the minority. And, to be honest, now that how many years later out of seminary, many of the people that I went to school with that started off as Christian are no longer Christian because they've just evolved or changed or seen more of the world or had more of an understanding that they want a more expansive way of relating to what's happening around us. They'll say I'm spiritual, I'm not religious, because those old definitions of how to be in their Christian faith no longer fit with who they've become.

Daniela SM : 43:38

What has changed since you took these masters? Oh gosh everything.

Kirsten Rudberg: 43:42

So, first of all, I graduated right when the pandemic started, so I never actually got a real graduation. We did everything online. And you know, of course, no jobs, no jobs anywhere for anyone, let alone at churches. And you know one of the things I thought, listening to how people were isolated and sad and scared and lonely because the pandemic was what makes me happy, like what do I want to hear? And so that's how I started my podcast and I can speak with some authority because I have a master's of divinity and it's called Bite Size Blessings and I basically interview everyone under the sun, everyone you can imagine, every faith, atheists, spiritual, not religious and I ask them have you ever experienced something you thought was magical or miraculous in your life and how did it change you? And I've had some seriously spirited conversations. So I would have never done this podcast if I wouldn't have gotten my Masters of Divinity. I'm also a spiritual director, so I have clients that I spiritually direct, which is kind of like ushering or helping someone try to figure out a path in life or a way of being in relationship to life that feels more authentic or more connected to divine source.

Kirsten Rudberg: 44:54

When I was in school, they had me take this test. That was 800 questions about who are you. And the gentleman who figured the test out called me and he said okay, you are in the wrong program, you need to be in a different program. And I said what? And he said yeah, but I said no, I'm getting a Master of Divinity and that's the end of it. And he said well, you tested. And this was shocking for me. My major of who I am is artist and my second is science and technology, and I've been reading science magazines since I was a kid. But he said this artist piece and I thought, oh my gosh, that's so gross. I can't even deal with what you're telling me right now, because artist was a bad word in my family. No one was ever an artist.

Kirsten Rudberg: 45:38

But because I went to seminary and because I had those test results, I've become more confident with who I am, which is I've written an animated series that's on YouTube about two crows that sit on a line and they talk about humanity. It's called Murder of Two. I've just released my third book in my Peter Rabbit series. I'm rewriting the Peter Rabbit series to more forcefully engage with what's going on in the world environmental degradation with human trafficking sweatshops, et cetera, et cetera. I've written a couple movies, all these things that I'm working on and getting my Master's of Divinity and having these test results really kind of allowed me to understand who I am and how I can contribute to the world. Who I am and how I can contribute to the world. So all these various things the podcast, my books, my animated series it gave me permission to be who.

Daniela SM : 46:30

I am. I'm delighted that you actually found who you are. Very unique for me to meet somebody who has gone to take a master's in divinity and that is not religious.

Kirsten Rudberg: 46:41

Yes, I am kind of a unicorn, right. I'm kind of different than a lot of people who get their masters of divinity, because many people get their MDiv and they go and work with a nonprofit and they do that kind of work or they go right into a church. If they're a Methodist they would probably start being trained to be a minister or be a lay preacher or what have you. But yeah, I'm a little bit different and I think it all goes back to hearing that conversation on NPR and me realizing that I wanted to have a little more authority, a little more knowledge, so that I could contribute to these conversations. Authority, a little more knowledge, so that I could contribute to these conversations Around the year.

Kirsten Rudberg: 47:25

Well, 1999, discover Magazine, which is a science magazine, they had this predictions for the next century. A bunch of scientists got together and they predicted that a new religion is going to arise in this coming century. It's going to be very social justice based, it's going to be singular, it's going to be different, it's going to be for the people, and I read that in 1999, and that always stuck with me and I guess I want to be a part of that conversation. How can we create a way of relating to the divine or co-creating with the divine or in conversation with that energy. How can we do that and not exclude anyone? How can we do it and include people, bring a greater sense of belonging, more community? How can we do that and not leave anyone behind? And so I think about that all the time too.

Daniela SM : 48:16

That's interesting. Yes, it's true, there is time for changes on the religious aspect. So now that you meet a lot of people that are spiritual, can you wish your masters? Can you spot when they're fake versus when they're really in tune?

Kirsten Rudberg: 48:33

Oh gosh. Well, so in Santa Fe, you can't turn around without bumping into someone that has anointed themselves a shaman, without bumping into someone that has anointed themselves a shaman, and usually it means that they've gone away for a weekend or a week and they come back and they say, hey, I am now basically an anointed one that can pay me a thousand dollars and I can do this, this and this. So, yes, I mean, I think also, some of those people are so overt it's easy to spot them. Sometimes. It's an easy way for people to make money, so they take advantage of other people and their desire to heal a wound or heal some trauma or if they feel broken or what have you.

Kirsten Rudberg: 49:17

There really are quite a few predators out in the world that self-describe as gurus or someone who can save you or someone who is connected in a really special and unique way to source, and they have all the answers. Those people scare me because one of the things that I really believe in is humility. It's so important to be humble and, by the way, every person that I've met human being who actually has some power or has the ability to help heal went through something so horrific and terrible that they had to climb out of it and heal massive wounds, go through incredible tribulation to get where they are today. They didn't go away for a week to some retreat and just get anointed and come back. They've gone through things that have been the dark night of the soul, so terrible we can't even imagine them. So I'm a big fan of humility.

Kirsten Rudberg: 50:17

If you want to find a guru again, those people scare me, or someone to work with. They have to be so humble and they have to say, hey, by the way, it people scare me, or someone to work with. They have to be so humble and they have to say, hey, by the way, it's not me doing this. It's not me, I'm just a channel. Those are the people you want to go to, because they really understand what it's all about. So, yes, yes, recognizing those people has gotten easier and I always kind of run away as fast as possible. Those people they have such a void inside of them. They're trying to fill it. They're trying to fill it. They will never be able to fill it until they understand that it's not all about them.

Daniela SM : 50:51

Or you're creating your own religion if necessary. I don't think it's necessary. I think we have to learn who we are and love each other, love ourselves first, and that's kind of like our religion. That's how spiritual we can be. We don't need to be in groups, but I understand that some people need the collectiveness to control the misbehaviors. You know somebody needs some people need somebody on the top, knowing that, oh, they're watching you, so better behave, but some others don't. So that's why I see that religious will never die. Because they're all kind of people, but yeah. So what else do you do? Because they're all kind of people, but yeah, so what?

Kirsten Rudberg: 51:41

else do you do? Well, I mean, I have to say, the podcast takes a lot of work, you know. You know, you know it is a lot of work. You know getting guests, making the time to interview them, then producing it takes a lot of energy and work. Even though it's a lot of work, it's a passion project. Yeah, I'm working on a comic book right now with another friend, of course still working on my Peter Rabbit series For my day job. I do see people one-on-one Like, for example, I'm moving to the Oregon coast this summer, I'm going to stay with a friend for a few months and just take whatever jobs come to me, just to make a little money. So I'm definitely up for the adventure, that's for sure, and the journey. I'm so lucky that I get to live this life where I have so many friends and I can live in different parts of the US and different parts of the world, and I know that I'll always be taken care of and loved.

Daniela SM : 52:31

Yes, I was going to say because you mentioned a dear friend, a dear friend here, dear friend there. You'd have lots of friends. And I'm not surprised, because since I met you, I feel like, oh, you want to be my friend? Yes, I do Two thumbs up to that for sure. Yes, but I'm sure you're not that easy Like you. Don't say yes, I want to be your friend, right? I mean, I'm sure you're selective too.

Kirsten Rudberg: 52:54

Oh yeah, absolutely Well, you really find out who your friends are once things become difficult in your life. Someone who can sit with you and listen to your sadnesses, your sorrows, those are people. Those are the ones that are important and that will, for years, will champion you, let everyone know about what you're doing and are always happy to see you. Those people are precious, they're like gold, and I'm lucky because I have met some stinker people, but I've met a lot of people who are just joyful and grateful to be here. They've done their deep work and so they can be present to me with real friendship, with real love. And I figure you know, if I'm going to start this world religion, it'll be important to have as many people who love me on my side as possible.

Daniela SM : 53:40

Yes, that's true, excellent. So, kristen, we are going to put all that information. I would like to see the video of the crows, the information about your book, the podcast, and we put that in the show notes. Yeah, and we will keep in touch. I'd love that. That would be awesome. Yes, yes, thank you for sharing your story. It was beautiful, thank you.

Kirsten Rudberg: 53:59

I loved every minute. Yes, me too, thanks.

Daniela SM : 54:03

I hope you enjoyed today's episode I am Daniela and you were listening to, because Everyone has a Story. Please take five seconds right now and think of somebody in your life that may enjoy what you just heard, or someone that has a story to be shared and preserved. When you think of that person, shoot them a text with the link of this podcast. This will allow the ordinary magic to go further. Join me next time for another story conversation. Thank you for listening. Hasta pronto.