The Arc Experience Podcast
Courageous Conversations in the Disability Community: What Does Equity and Inclusion Really Mean?
In today's episode we hear from Stephen Graves, a renowned national Diversity, Equity and Inclusion expert who has spent time thinking about the intersection of race and disability. Stephen advises us not to play the "Oppression Olympics" but to get on a journey of cultural humility and start courageous conversations, wherever we work or live. Listen in and you'll come away with concrete tips for what you can do today to make sure we don't keep repeating our history of shoving people to the side.
In today's episode we hear from Stephen Graves, a renowned national Diversity, Equity and Inclusion expert who has spent time thinking about the intersection of race and disability. Stephen advises us not to play the "Oppression Olympics" but to get on a journey of cultural humility and start courageous conversations, wherever we work or live. Listen in and you'll come away with concrete tips for what you can do today to make sure we don't keep repeating our history of shoving people to the side.
Welcome to the arc experience, featuring the stories of self advocates with disabilities and their families from around Wisconsin. Be inspired. Take action. And now for today's episode,
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the arc experience podcast. I am your host, Lisa Pew with York, Wisconsin, and we are joined today by Steven Graves. He's the manager of culture and belonging with GT independence. You might know, as one of Wisconsin's leading fiscal employer agencies that works with people within the Iris long-term care program. He's also a nationally renowned diversity equity and inclusion professional. We are really lucky to have you here with us today, Stephen. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's get right into it. So, um, for our listeners, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and why you decided to work in the disability field in Wisconsin with GT independence?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I'm going, going back all the way to, um, school. Um, I've started at a small town, my hometown Greenwood, South Carolina always tell people that Greenwood's claim to fame is me, but obviously that's jokingly. Uh, but yeah, small town upstate South Carolina, and I was blessed to, um, graduate from Lander university, um, in 2008. And during my studies at Lander, I was pursuing my bachelor's in business administration. I did an internship at a Burton center for special needs and disabilities, and that's really where I first started encountering, uh, members of the disability community. And it really just tugged at my heart strings. I realized the needs, I realized, um, the opportunities to serve in that particular space. And that really is where my passion was sparked, uh, in terms of serving, um, the disability community and just really being in the healthcare space as well. And I was really privileged and honored to, uh, be surrounded by leaders, such as Brian roar, uh, at the Burton center during my tenure there. And it really just helped me and really opened my eyes and enlightened. And I was also privileged to work for the university of Vermont medical center on, as a program manager for diversity equity and inclusion. And there I was the business liaison for the project search program and that's a school to work transition program for students with developmental disabilities. And it truly blessed my heart to be able to watch the progression of the students from the first time that they were arriving to the time that they were going through their completion ceremony, going out into the world, getting full-time jobs and being productive citizens. So that's where my passion was sparked. And, um, I'm just really honored to continue this work, uh, under the GT independence umbrella. Yeah. We have a really strong
Speaker 2:And great project search program in Wisconsin that you might be becoming familiar with. So it's so great to hear that part of your history.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So, you know, um, just want to dive in a little bit into your expertise around diversity equity and inclusion, because, you know, I know that, you know, that people with disabilities face, you know, just regular daily discrimination across healthcare education, housing, employment, transportation, criminal justice, you name it. Right. But then we know that that discrimination is really multiplied for people with disabilities who are also people of color. What, you know, when you think about that intersectionality, what do you really want people to know?
Speaker 3:Well, I think it's important first that people understand the term of intersectionality because it has been used over the last three decades. And I think it is transformed and evolved over time, but it was originally coined by Kimberle Crenshaw. And she is a law professor at Columbia university and UCLA. And back in 1989, she used it as a way to really address the perpetual exclusion of black women when in conversations around feminism or anti-racism discourse theory and remedy. So she was really, um, highlighting the marginalization that specifically harm black women when navigating the world and the workplace. And like I said, in the last 30 years, that term has evolved quite a bit and more identities are being considered. So with America's reawakening and re and reckoning with racial injustice or racist catapulted again into that conversation. And you know, when folks are thinking about disability, I really hope that folks are thinking about how this discrimination compounds over time. So take, for instance, somebody who has a disability, maybe they have a learning disability or physical disability. Think about that being compounded by the fact that, Hey, this person also is of Asian descent and thinking about what we've experienced in the last year with the pandemic coronavirus, some of the things and rhetoric that we were hearing about, uh, folks from China, think about how that was compounded, right? So you're, you're working through a disability and Europe, Asian descent, and you're a person of color. So that discrimination is layered and it can get deep. And I also want to note that it's important that when we're thinking about intersectionality, it's not about playing what I like to call the oppression Olympics or guilt tripping anybody, but it's really just a way to elevate our collective social consciousness, to understand, again, those layers of our multicultural identity, where we may be in an advantage and maybe at a disadvantage when seeking health care services are offering those services.
Speaker 2:Steven, a lot of the professionals, uh, in the Iris program and in long-term care programs in Wisconsin are, are white and are interacting with people who are experiencing that compounded discrimination. And I'm sure in your role as, as a consultant that you're asked this question many times, but like how can we make those services and supports better? How can we make those interactions with people better?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. Whether regardless of the facility, so it could be a home health agency or rehab center, a long-term care facility, a tertiary medical center. The approach is really going to have to be strategic when it comes to being more culturally humble, more culturally responsive to meeting those vulnerable communities and those marginalized groups. So there's a few key considerations and components that come to my mind, uh, first focusing directly on organizational effectiveness. I think the mistake that a lot of organizations make is that they put diversity equity and inclusion in its own bucket of work, or anti-racism work in off to the side. And they don't really embed it into the strategic goals of the organization. So embedding that into those practices, those goals, having anti-racism goals that are directly in alignment and a part of the strategy of, for your organization, that's one consideration to have the second one is actively and continuously engaging your workforce and staff, especially those who were underrepresented. You shouldn't really wait until tragedy strikes to have conversations with the employees at GT independence. What we do, we host a monthly dialogues that series and it's called courageous conversations. And the purpose of that series is to do just that have open-ended conversations here from our employees in terms of topics that matter to them and current events and things that are happening in the world. So creating those forums for employees to be able to have those dialogues, that's another consideration that the workplace needs to be making. And also the third consideration is really around transparency. And that means just communicating your progress or even your lack of progress as it relates to this work. Uh, leaders should be honest when it comes to, you know, why is it taking so long to address this? Or why is it taking so long for improvements to be made and just have honest communication in terms of the progress that you're making, the goals that you're setting. Um, at GT, we have a dashboard that we're in the middle of creating and it's showing and reflecting several metrics as it relates to race, age languages, spoken by our communities by our own internal employees. And we're going to use that data to help inform our approach. So those are just a few of the things that come to my mind. And then a couple of other things I think are really important, really distinguishing the difference between diversity inclusion and equity. Again, those terms are often used interchangeably, but they don't mean the same things. And I think one mistake that people often make is focusing solely on the diversity piece and they say, okay, we got to meet a certain quota, or we got to talk to a specific group, you know, it, a one and done check the box, but how do we really ensure that these groups feel included? How do they, how do we really ensure that they feel like they know not only have a seat at the table, but they feel like they can speak and they can be their authentic selves when they arrive at those tables. Right. So for instance, again, thinking about intersectionality and you think about somebody who may have a learning disability, well, they may be surrounded by a board or a group of other board members who also have a learning disability, but if that person is Hispanic and everybody else in the room is white, well, that's going to be a little bit of a different experience for them. And they may not feel as included as they need to. So just really distinguishing, um, diversity inclusion and equity and what those words mean. And I also think it's important to have leaders demonstrating that commitment. They can help normalize the language, normalize the messages, and I think it really starts at the top if it's going to be sustainable over time. So those are just a few of the things that I think about. Um, when I think in terms of what's really important for organizations to know in order to effectively respond and support, uh, vulnerable people with disability.
Speaker 2:Sure. Well, that's not a few things that's a lot like that's a big bucket of really good things for people to think about. And, you know, you mentioned in the beginning, America's, you know, reawakening. And I think that the pandemic certainly has been a huge driver of that. And, and also I think, and I'm sure you agree, you know, created even more awareness about disparities for people of color and just to state cite some statistics about people with disabilities. We know that in our long-term care system in Wisconsin, so family care and I was programs nearly one fifth of the state deaths. I check the data today, it's right around, you know, 18% are from people in family care and I was programmed. So again, one fifth of the state's deaths are from people who use those programs and services. And that, of course we know that for people of color, um, black Americans, the death rate from COVID-19 is twice that for white. So what, what do you think that the pandemic is actually teaching us about this?
Speaker 3:Well, I love that question because it's not just through all the pain. I think there's some lessons that can be learned as we heal. And we remember some of what happened in 2020 is still occurring in 2021, but there is a number of lessons from those unfortunate stats. So one major learning for me has been the importance of service providers and human service programs, establishing trust, uh, with black and Brown communities. So for years in these types of industries of at best black and Brown folks have been ignored and at worst downright harm. So I think one main learning for communities in the future and programming in the future is to actively engage over time, to build trust and to build empathy with these marginalized communities being served. Another lesson I think is important is the accessibility of services, right? So when we're thinking about COVID specifically, we're, you know, information, as it related to safety protocols, was that translated in a, in a language that folks could understand, right? Or we're thinking about the vaccination right now, and information on vaccines is that being translated and accessible to people who speak a language other than English, right? So that's one example of one way to really bridge that gap. And that's a lesson I think that all of us can hear now in terms of when we're thinking about those statistics, those alarming statistics, what we can do and learn from,
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely. I have a few more questions for you, Steven. So we're going to take a really quick break and then we will come, right?
Speaker 1:This podcast episode has been brought to you by old national bank. Old national bank has been recognized by the national organization on disability as a leading disability employer, and one of the best places to work for disability, inclusion, old national fostering, a welcoming workplace where people of all abilities, backgrounds, and skills can work together to accomplish great things.
Speaker 2:Welcome back. You are rejoining our conversation with Stephen Graves, who is a renowned diversity equity and inclusion professional with GT independence. So Steven, in some of your articles, you talk about how we have to have those difficult conversations about topics like racism, sexism, ageism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia. We are not very good at having those conversations in the disability community. What is your advice on how to get those conversations started? What can we do?
Speaker 3:Well, I look at it from an organizational level and an individual level and at an organizational level, leaders can set the tone and make spaces for open and honest dialogue internally and externally are those leaders at the top can help again, normalize that language, normalize the messaging. And what does that look like? So you can set a top side of time with each meeting to prioritize conversations specifically around DEI, outside of just the disability context and bringing other layers of identities and dimensions of diversity into those conversations. So internally for us, one thing that we've talked about at GT is what would it look like in terms of gender equity, right? Pay equity, and looking at those things for our employees who are female employees, and do they measure up in terms of pay equity and equitable pay? So that's one thing to consider something else in terms of communication channels. That's something else in terms of building out those messages and articulating that across the organization to normalize the conversation in language. So again, at GT independence, we have as a weekly newsletter that we publish, it goes out to all employees. And each week we try to have at least one section, if not more, this dedicated again, to a specific topic around diversity, equity and inclusion. So for instance, a couple of months ago, we published some tips in terms of using gender pronouns. He, him pronouns, are she her pronouns, they them, and that helped normalize the use of pronouns and alleviate some of the burden from some of our employees who may not identify in the traditional norms of gender identity and gender expression. So taking some of those practices and then applying them to the community that works well. And then obviously partnering with advocacy groups is another key in getting those conversations started. So strategically partnering with groups like the arc to leverage resources, to get creative around, Hey, can we partner to better serve our limited English proficient population? Uh, can we identify ways to share data about specific regions or counties? You know, when we're thinking about Wisconsin trends that we may be saying, so thinking about strategic partnerships differently, and then on the individual level, a few of the tips that I think of that immediately come to mind are creating a safe space and honoring that they're going to be uncomfortable, right? Because you're flexing muscles, um, mental muscles, emotional muscles that you've never had to flex before. So leaning into that discomfort and if possible, bringing in a skilled facilitator who shares the identity, that's something else that I've seen work really well. So for example, if you want to engage with people who say, have a learning disability, finding a facilitator who also shares that identity, who has a learning disability as well, can really help lead that discussion and then lower some of the tension lower some of the walls to effectively build trust. Also just being willing to make mistakes. I think, you know, Carter bar entrenched in our culture is this idea of perfectionism. Like we have to get it right all of the time and you have to, yeah, you have to make mistakes at times and just not view them as mistakes, but opportunities to grow and to learn. And then finally just being open and curious about new ideas. So not getting defensive, uh, you know, in the context of race, something that often hear is, Hey, well, um, I'm white, but I'm not racist. Well, you know, in the words of Angela Davis, it's not enough not to be racist. You have to actively be anti-racist right. So what are you doing to, uh, eliminate racism in your circles and your community? So I think those are a few of the ways that, um, you know, leaders and organizations can approach, uh, having these conversations with the disability community.
Speaker 2:That that's really good advice for a lot of us here in Wisconsin. I know GT is so lucky to have you on board, you know, and we know that GT independence is a strong supporter, like the arch, Wisconsin, and a believer in self-determination and self-direction, you know, allowing people to make their own choices and live their lives the way they want to with the, that they need. I'm wondering what that means to you and your work.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So for me, that means people living their lives freely and authentically, and, you know, I'm a person of faith, so it has a deeply spiritual level, uh, type of meaning for me. And I believe that every person on this earth has purpose and has a reason for being here and why they were put on this earth and ultimately to tap into that power, they have to have a sense of freedom and they have to have a sense of, to live freely, to truly be who they were created to be. And so ultimately that's what it means for me being authentic and leave it living freely. And again, that's why I'm just so blessed and honored to be a part of the GT family to help people do just that.
Speaker 2:Wow. It has been an incredible conversation with you today. Steven, do you have some final words of advice for our listeners and people with disabilities and their families and professionals in Wisconsin?
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I'll just say, just have an open heart, have an open mind, um, again, be willing to lean into your discomfort and you know, in the words of Nelson Mandela, you never lose, you either win or you learn. And I think there's always an opportunity to grow and to learn as we all are on this journey to cultural humility and understand it. Thank you so much, Steven. Thank you.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, thank you also to our listeners for tuning into this episode of the Ark experience podcast, you know, I'm going to ask you, please like share and subscribe, make sure to leave us a review and we'll be back. Next time.
Speaker 1:Today's episode of the Ark experience was brought to you by the arc Wisconsin, the state's oldest advocacy organization for people with intellectual developmental disabilities and their families it's funded in part by the Wisconsin board for people with developmental disabilities. Our theme music called species is the property of[inaudible] and cannot be copied or distributed without permission. It was produced by Eleanor Cheetham, a composer and artist with autism.