Curious about overcoming eating disorders and reclaiming your relationship with food? What steps can you take today to start your journey towards food freedom and well-being?
In this insightful episode, Marie Savvas shares her courageous journey of overcoming bulimia through a combination of a 12-step program, meditation, hypnosis, and her innovative Mind Map Method. Joined by Anthony Hartcher, who brings personal experience and clinical insights to the discussion, they delve into practical strategies for managing and recovering from eating disorders.
Together, Marie and Anthony provide practical strategies for recovery, including stress management, challenging limiting beliefs, and embracing a holistic understanding of health. Tune in to discover how Marie's journey and insights can inspire and support your own path to healing and empowerment.
About Marie Savvas: Marie Savvas, a former Fashion Designer, transformed her life after overcoming bulimia, body image issues, and self-worth struggles. Using insights from the 12-step program and tools from NLP and coaching, she reclaimed control and pursued her purpose with conviction. Now, Marie integrates her creative problem-solving skills into her coaching practice, helping clients unlock their potential and rewrite their narratives through personalized programs. For those ready to embark on a journey of empowerment, Marie provides the guidance and support needed to succeed.
me&my health up seeks to enhance and enlighten the well-being of others. Host Anthony Hartcher is the CEO of me&my wellness which provides holistic health solutions using food as medicine, combined with a holistic, balanced, lifestyle approach. Anthony holds three bachelor's degrees in Complementary Medicine; Nutrition and Dietetic Medicine; and Chemical Engineering.
Podcast Disclaimer Any information, advice, opinions or statements within it do not constitute medical, health care or other professional advice, and are provided for general information purposes only. All care is taken in the preparation of the information in this Podcast. [Connected Wellness Pty Ltd] operating under the brand of “me&my health up”..click here for more
Curious about overcoming eating disorders and reclaiming your relationship with food? What steps can you take today to start your journey towards food freedom and well-being?
In this insightful episode, Marie Savvas shares her courageous journey of overcoming bulimia through a combination of a 12-step program, meditation, hypnosis, and her innovative Mind Map Method. Joined by Anthony Hartcher, who brings personal experience and clinical insights to the discussion, they delve into practical strategies for managing and recovering from eating disorders.
Together, Marie and Anthony provide practical strategies for recovery, including stress management, challenging limiting beliefs, and embracing a holistic understanding of health. Tune in to discover how Marie's journey and insights can inspire and support your own path to healing and empowerment.
About Marie Savvas: Marie Savvas, a former Fashion Designer, transformed her life after overcoming bulimia, body image issues, and self-worth struggles. Using insights from the 12-step program and tools from NLP and coaching, she reclaimed control and pursued her purpose with conviction. Now, Marie integrates her creative problem-solving skills into her coaching practice, helping clients unlock their potential and rewrite their narratives through personalized programs. For those ready to embark on a journey of empowerment, Marie provides the guidance and support needed to succeed.
me&my health up seeks to enhance and enlighten the well-being of others. Host Anthony Hartcher is the CEO of me&my wellness which provides holistic health solutions using food as medicine, combined with a holistic, balanced, lifestyle approach. Anthony holds three bachelor's degrees in Complementary Medicine; Nutrition and Dietetic Medicine; and Chemical Engineering.
Podcast Disclaimer Any information, advice, opinions or statements within it do not constitute medical, health care or other professional advice, and are provided for general information purposes only. All care is taken in the preparation of the information in this Podcast. [Connected Wellness Pty Ltd] operating under the brand of “me&my health up”..click here for more
Welcome back to another insightful and exciting episode of me&my health up. I'm your host Anthony Hartcher, a clinical nutritionist and lifestyle medicine specialist. And today we have a special episode on eating disorders or disordered eating whatever you choose, whatever you want to label it as. And we have a expert guest in this area, who's lived, lived with eating disorders her entire life and has found ways to overcome it and has developed self-mastery around it and has developed a company called Mind Map Method, which is a process to help you through eating disorders or disordered eating whatever you choose. And so, Marie Savvas, a NLP practitioner, so a neurolinguistics program practitioner, also a certified life coach. Also, a hypnotherapist also has other feathers under the cap such as the Mind Map Method, which is she's developed herself and how she uses matrix therapy and hypnosis as well. And so this is a really intriguing episode into what it's like to have a and live with a eating disorder, and how you can overcome it yourself if you see yourself as struggling with eating and overeating or undereating or swinging between overeating and undereating. So if this is you, then this episode is exactly what you want to listen to. So look forward to talking to Marie and I look forward to enlightening and enhancing your well-being through this discussion with Marie. So without much further ado, I'd love to welcome you into the discussion I'm having with Marrie. Welcome on the me&my health up podcast. How you doing, Marie?
Marie Savvas:
I'm well Anthony, how are you?
Anthony Hartcher:
Fantastic. So great to have you on. And I'm really looking forward to this conversation based on what we spoke to, you know, I guess what we spoke about prior to you coming on the show, so really keen to delve into firstly, how you've arrived at what you're doing today. And then we'll get into all the juicy stuff. Yeah,
Marie Savvas:
so I guess in many ways, it was a long journey. So I have literally within the last couple of weeks just ended my career, I had spent 30 years working in the fashion industry as a fashion designer and a fashion design director. And you know, and during that time, I got into the personal growth space, because one of my old bosses was very much into into that. And I started listening to Tony Robbins, you know, CDs and what have you, you know, 20 years ago, 20 plus years ago, I guess now, and just was always really interested in the personal growth. And I was always looking for answers to my eating disorder. So I was bulimic for 26 years. And I think that was very much. It's a lot of reasons why it's quite complex. But I think being exposed to the fashion industry certainly didn't help you know, where my head was at and what that journey looked like. And, you know, I just had a particular day where I thought, you know what, one of these days I'm going to kick this. And when I do, I'm going to find a way to help other people who are going through what I've been through, because I felt like I'd gone through absolutely everything to find the healing and recovery that I was looking for. And, you know, I just kind of felt like how can I spare others from going through such a long arduous journey themselves. So I really just wanted to take my personal lived experience and apply that to help others and I really explored whether that would be in psychology, counseling, and it was, you know, just a serendipitous day with someone at work said to me, you know, you'd be a really amazing personal coach and the penny dropped at that moment. And it felt like more I thought about it, it seemed like a very natural transition. So I've been doing that in unison with my fashion design career. So I went into doing fashion part-time so that I could then take that segue over into the coaching space. I would say that predominantly, I am a mindset coach because I think what I came to realise through my own personal journey was it really was never the food that was the problem. It was actually my lack of coping mechanisms and where my head was at really that was the block that stopped me from getting the recovery that I wanted. So and then of course, you know, I do help people with different needs, but I have a very special kind of interest and passion with helping people who've got issues, particularly around binge eating, emotional eating, bulimia, of course, because I've been there and I feel like I can be reusable in that space. And yeah, overeating. That's really kind of what I focus on. Incredible
Anthony Hartcher:
story and so glad you're out there helping others to overcome this challenging area and certainly in my consulting, I come across eating disorders and emotional eating. It's often what leads to either, you know, excessive weight gain or being underweight. So, really important topic and the numbers are growing both for females and males. It's certainly not, you know, heading backwards, or we're getting on top of this trend. I think with social media and all the influencers out there, things are probably becoming more obsessive. And we spoke about that orthorexia concern, which is people getting obsessed with their health and over obsessing about their health. And so it can really lead to, I guess, unhealthy practices and that aren't sustainable and really result in that mental health concern over the long term. So in terms of your journey, what were the telltale signs that is it just something was, you know, what brought it to your conscious awareness that there was actually a concern? Because I, I think, you know, there's a whole lot of people out there that sort of have elements of these concerns, but aren't aware of it. So what are some of the telltale signs that they should look out for?
Marie Savvas:
Okay, with my particular story, I was conscious of my weight from a very young age. So I was like, you know, a chubby little girl. And, you know, my mother in particular, was quite vocal about that, even publicly. And I just remember there being a lot of shame and embarrassment around my body size, and what I looked like, so there was a level of self-consciousness there from a very young age. So I would kind of secretly diet so for me, really, I think, from kindergarten, I remember putting myself on a secret diet. So that was a very young age to be that self-aware of my image. And so I guess I really didn't know any different, I kind of always had that in my life. And I there was always an obsession around food. And I guess, because, you know, I mean, my mother only tried to do her best, you know, by restricting portions or doing what she thought was right at that time, and we have a lot of different education around food and what's you know, I guess, more appropriate around, you know, children and that sort of thing now than what there was when I was a child. But I guess having that sense of restriction and, and being very conscious of that my brother was eating a different quantity, or different types of foods that I was given, created even more desire to have the food. So there was the restriction and then when I had a moment where there was no one around, I would be sneaking food, so No, and I always knew, even from a young age that that wasn't, didn't feel, right. Because if I had to sneak then it meant that if I wasn't doing it, I might be getting into trouble for sneaking the food. So I mean, that would be the earliest telltale sign. For me, it was that kind of secretive nature around food, or if there was pocket money, and you know, race down to the local corner store, and, you know, eat the junk food or whatever, before I got home so that I wouldn't be seen. So there was lots of that going on from a very young age. I think also, you know, I mean, even throughout high school as well, there was you know, trying not to eat while I was at school and just have like a diet soda and an apple on time. You know, get through the day without eating and then coming home and be ravenous and just kinda like standing in the pantry and just be binging. So this was going on for really my entire life, I really had no, what I would consider a normal relationship with food, I don't think I don't remember that ever from had any point. So even just trying to put that on my radar when it came to what recovery might look like for me, was really difficult. And even to this day, I don't think I've really put any restraints or confinement around what normal eating looks like. Because for me, it's different from one day to the next and whatever feels comfortable is okay now. So I'm in for anybody, you know, who is hearing this and maybe wondering whether that's something they could relate to, and the secret of eating is a big one, eating masses of food in you know, one sitting and particularly when you're feeling out of control, so you kind of want to stop but you can't, it's almost like this alter ego has taken over and there's just no stop button eating whenever you feel like you're you know, sad, upset, lonely, so your emotions are really driving the hunger or the need for food rather than a physical hunger is another sign. And then you know, also, you know, there's a party coming, I wanna not, not eat leading up to that, because I want to look a certain way. There's all of these sorts of behaviors that I think are very much part of the diet culture that a lot of us are exposed to, you know, throughout our lives, you know, we're getting sold to or marketed to all the time about there being this perfectionistic image that we should adhere to creates a lot of confusion. I think it's probably more confusing now than it's ever been. I would say in my experience about how to navigate through all of this, you know, there's a different day or meal plan that seems to be trending at any given moment, each one contradicts the other. And it's just really hard to cut through that and figure out what might be right. And even just, you know, culturally now where we've got, you know, this movement towards body positivity and acceptance of different body types and shapes, and this goes for males and females, but then on the flip side, we've got this push towards ozempic, and things like that. So it's like, you know, we're being told on one hand that we should be accepting of how we are. And as long as we're happy and healthy, you know, who cares? It doesn't matter what Michael is telling us. But on the other hand, we're also being told that, you know, it's still desirable to be thin. So yeah, there is a lot of confusion around that. And I think this, you know, can exacerbate the eating disorders, because I guess we're trying to fit in, or we're looking to food for comfort and, and kind of numbing out. So yeah, it is quite a complex issue. And you know, if I have to be frank with you, I mean, as much as I really wanted to get into this space to help others who are going through what I went through, I still had reservations about it because it's so divisive. Everyone has an opinion, one way or another. And, you know, we want to tread really carefully. It's people's health that we're talking about, not just physical health, it's mental health is a really tough one. But I learned a lot going through. So my initial recovery, if I can speak to that just started through a 12-step recovery program. So I was literally one day, I felt like I'd hit rock bottom, I'd signed up for a fitness challenge at my gym thinking that you know, this was going to be the thing that got me on the rails, it was always something that was going to get me on the rails is how I used to say, and it's just triggered me actually, I just was eating more than normal. I was binging and purging more than normal, because of this intense pressure to try and like get through this six-week challenge and lose, you know, body fat and gain muscle and all that sort of thing. And I just had a moment where I knew I couldn't do it anymore. I was just exhausted. I'm like, am I going to spend the rest of my life doing this? And at times, you know, I did resolve to, you know, I'd think, okay, if when I'm 80 am I still going to be dealing with this eating disorder? And there were some days where it'd be like, Yeah, well, that's just part of who I am. And I resigned to that. And there were other days where it's like, I just couldn't reconcile that. Because all the other areas of my life were really together. So like really driven, motivated, disciplined, I couldn't quite understand why this one part of my life, I just couldn't get it and just couldn't get it. And I didn't understand why, through a lot of time, effort and money at different types of therapies and help. But ultimately, as I mentioned, I had this one day, I felt like I'd hit rock bottom. And I literally Googled, you know, AA for people with problems with food. And you know, lo and behold, there was, there is a fellowship out there, or there are a few actually, that cater to people with dysfunctional disordered eating. And so I was desperate, I called straightaway got onto that first meeting that I could, found a sponsor, and literally that I was doing the program like within two days, I was ready to go. And it was it was what I needed at the time because it was a very, very structured program, there was really no room for no wiggle room whatsoever. So at that time, that really worked for me, because I had no trust in myself when it came to the food because I'd never had it. So if I just you know, if I didn't have these episodes where I could get rid of eating masses of food, I'd be afraid that I was gonna gain weight. And so this structured eating and having to adhere to all the tools that needed to be done the speaking to a sponsor every day, it was what I needed as a really resourceful pattern interrupt. So it just stopped me in my track, stopped behaviors that I was, you know, practicing over that 26-year time period, which allowed me enough time to be introspective and really understand what it is that was causing the disordered eating and and I realised very quickly that the food wasn't the issue. It was my lack of manageability if you want to say of stress, mainly stress and overwhelm so I guess I didn't realise so you know because it was such an automatic reaction to just turn to the food whenever something felt hard. I just never sat with the discomfort when something came up. And so really the food was just an advertising all of that and so once I learned how to manage the stress, and it took a lot I had to try and pare back a lot of areas in my life in order to do that. So meant saying no to over-scheduling my calendar, you know, I needed to get keep room there, in order to have some breathing space and not feel like I was stressed out overwhelmed, I've been, you know, reduce the number of days that I was working because working in a fashion in fashion is quite tense because you're working to timelines all the time, and you're putting out fires all day. So I recognise that that was a really important component to the healing and, and just started practices like meditation, which was really difficult to start with, but I persisted with it. And, and when I could sit with myself and actually really hear my higher self, my inner voice, then I could start feeling that there was a level of trust there, I could hear that my higher self really did have his higher purpose was for my own good. So the the all this destruction that I've been inflicting on myself was not because I hated myself, I realised that that was a survival mechanism for me and so I was able to kind of work through that. And I think another important component there was to was just even working through the resentments. So all of that kind of stuff that was building out, we, you know, I was angry about and didn't even realise, you know, the fact that I was fat-shamed at such a young age and, and felt quite, you know, embarrassed about that, and the childhood stuff. So I think just clearing all of that, and I did that in conduct in conjunction with NLP as well. So neurolinguistic programming, which is something that I also do with my clients in conjunction with the coaching. And I also bring in hypnosis as well, because I realised that these patterns are very deeply ingrained in us. And so it really takes, you know, I felt like I had to come at it from all different angles. And so really, that's how, you know, I started to come out of the eating disorder. And so the 12-step recovery was pivotal in that that even that reached a point where I started to feel that, you know, this was another prison for me, because I felt the eating disorder was a prison. And then I felt like I was in another prison of my own making where I had very strict guidelines. And in some ways, it felt a little bit damning. So if you weren't 100%, you'd go back to day one you couldn't share at meetings and all this sort of thing. And I just that didn't sit well with me, because I still felt that that felt like shaming as well. And I'm definitely not saying anything about the program that's negative, I really highly recommend it. And for some people, it is amazing. But you know, I started to kind of come at it with another level of curiosity, I suppose. And it's just like when I would ask my sponsor questions like, Why do we say in 12-step recovery, that you're never recovered? You're always in recovery, that just I couldn't deal with that. Like, it's like, but if I haven't practiced the binge and purge, and I don't have these behaviors anymore, how is that not recovered? I just couldn't get my head around that or even when we were in meetings, and we'd have to put our hand up when the question got asked, you know, anyone that's, you know, food addict, raise your hand, and I would be really, really reluctant. I kind of felt like, I had to do it, because everybody else was doing it. And I was in program, but I was really uncomfortable with taking the label on because deep down, I just knew that I wasn't the disease. And the disease wasn't me. It's it's a behavior that I'd been practicing for a very long time. And I think when I realised that I could disassociate from the disease, that's when I really felt okay, recovery, not recovering is on the table for me. So I would ask my sponsor, or you know, that question, as I mentioned before, why can't we be recovered? It's like, no, once an addict, always an addict, and that conversation would go on and on coming. And I'd question things like, well, I totally respect the program, but it was developed in the 30s. In the 30s, scientists believe that the adults brain was fixed and you could no longer you know, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but we know different now, we know that, you know, the mind isn't fixed, and you can, you know, fire and wire new neural pathways. And, and it was at that time that I came across the work of Dr. Joe Dispenza, I found the book Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself. And I felt like that was the answer to all my prayers. And effectively, it was, like really got into it, I devoured as much information as I could, until such a point where I felt really confident that I had to try so I'm not I'm going to leave the fellowship. And I'm just going to try and see if everything that is in this book about, you know, creating new habits and basically reinventing yourself creating a new personality. I just wanted to test that there was no real there's no way that I could do that within the framework of 12 steps. So I had to take that leap of faith and see if it was going to work for me and I figured Well, what's the worst that can happen? I just go back. So that was always going to be an option if I needed it. And so I just devoured all that information, I committed to doing the breaking the habit of being yourself meditations every day, I think I did them every day for six months, the same guided meditation, I was probably too fearful in the initial stages to do anything else because it seemed to be working. So I'm like, okay, great. So I guess I recognise that now, after having done my training that, you know, that really is a form of hypnosis, you know, these guided meditations, I really recognise that as hypnosis, and that was super useful, it kind of gave me something to hang on to when I was, you know, outside of the framework. And, and so I feel really privileged happy to say that, you know, I haven't had an binge eating episode, or binge-purge, since since I, you know, it's been four years now. But yeah, so it's been a really interesting journey. And it's, I just found, it's probably a little bit easier now on social media, trying to find information around that. But certainly, for the majority of my eating disorder, there was very little literature on the matter, even going to see psychologists, they couldn't understand, like I was getting another, I don't feel that that was right for me. But I was talking to people who never experienced it themselves. And in the end, I kind of felt like, well, they can't relate to me. So I don't know how they're going to help or fix me, or I don't know what I was thinking at the time. But it certainly wasn't the right therapy for me. So it was honestly, I just think it was trying lots of different things. And but ultimately, I think the secret sauce is just turning it inwards. So it's all those external factors that we think are going to help really, they're out of our control. So the real healing comes from, you know, turning inward.
Anthony Hartcher:
Fantastic sharing Marie, I really appreciate you being so open and sharing with the listeners, your story or your challenges and how you overcome them and the experimentation and finding what works for you. And recognising that, you know, like, the recommended therapy is psychology or counseling, and then you're saying, well, these people don't relate to me, I just can't connect with them. And they don't understand me. And so this is hence why we need people like you as a coach who have lived experience and have overcome it through experimentation, trial and error and worked what works best. And you'll understand in terms of where your clients are at in their journey, and what's probably the best avenue for them to try at that particular time. As you said, at rock bottom, the 12-step program was fantastic. But as you'd sort of, you know, master that and you know, you're on top of it, you wanted more in terms of empowerment, and you felt quite disempowered by the 12-step program and its framework. And you also mentioned a really good point around the label disordered eating and you are not the label like and you know, detaching yourself from the label and, and not thinking that you are, you know it but you have a behavior that's perceived as disordered eating. And then I was thinking, okay, yeah, totally. That's so good. You know, that in terms of not having that attachment to the label, because you are you and it's just a behavior that you've learned over time. And, yes, you can unlearn behaviors, because we have neuroplasticity. And then I was thinking this whole thing around disordered eating, if people looked at what I ate, they would say you've got this, you're a disordered, right? Because there's nothing normal about how I eat, right? But I think the distinguishing factor in terms of you know, what people may perceive me as disordered eating is that I have control over the food, I think it's when the food has control over you. And you feel out of control. That's when there's a problem, right? Would you agree with that? Yeah,
Marie Savvas:
as I mentioned, it kind of almost feels like the you being possessed, and there's really little control. And once you're in it, it's very hard to stop. So if you're in the midst of binge eating episode, it's very hard to try and stop yourself in the middle. So self-awareness is a super important aspect of trying to, you know, in those sorts of behaviors, and being really in tune with, you know, how you operate, what might set you off, what are your cues, super important.
Anthony Hartcher:
Yeah, cause you shared that point about, not, you know, being like looking within, and having self-governance from within in terms of that self-control, as opposed to the outside world running you and you're just responding to the outside world, you see the food and you think, oh, you know, I'm possessed, I just have to have that food and then I'm going to have more of it. And, and so now you've got that self-governance that's from within and no matter what trigger or anything from the environment, it's not running you it's not a hard wiring. This is how I respond to this input. You know, like it's, I can get the same input today, but I don't respond. like I used to, yeah,
Marie Savvas:
Yeah, there's a lot of black-and-white thinking when it comes to disordered eating. And I think that some turning inward does a great, like insights that come from that. So yeah, you tend to catastrophise a lot. So if you've overeating here, then you go into this worry cycle that I'm gonna get fat tomorrow. And then you start looking at yourself differently in the mirror. And therefore, your body dysmorphia might come into the picture, and it spirals really quickly and really easily. And sometimes, it might take days to get out of that spiral. So it is a really complex mental issue. But yes, I mean, life is happening all around you. So if you're going to be at affect of everything that's occurring, of course, it's going to be really easy to just fall into those eating patterns. So and that's all you can control really is your internal world. Everything else. Yeah, even if you want to try Yeah, sure. But you, there's no guarantee that, you know, the plan is going to play out the way that you'd intended. So that's, that's quite an empowering place to be because all of a sudden, it shifts the like, you know, I guess for myself, I kind of felt like, when it came to the eating disorder, I felt very much in victim mentality, you know, initially, I thought, well, I have to eat less than everybody else, you know, because I've got these genes. And it takes a lot more for me to stay a particular size and what, while everybody else is going out and eating all these other food, and I'm what have you and I don't know, I just was making a whole bunch of stuff played into the narrative. And quite frankly, you know, if I have to call BS on myself now, it's like, yeah, well, I was telling myself that because the eating disorder served a purpose for a period of time. And as I mentioned, it was a coping mechanism. So really served me to make excuses or being in victim mode in order to keep hold of the eating disorder. So but, uh, you know, it's very hard to have that clear perspective when you're in it. So obviously, you know, even now, I still have, you know, insights that pop up just out of nowhere, I think, oh, my gosh, you know, I can recognise that I was doing that for this reason, it's really interesting. And, but it's, it's a really interesting journey, like, you know, I still have to show up for myself every day, like, I still have to do the work, that may not be the case for everyone coming out of, you know, an eating disorder. But certainly, for me, I still have to honor the practices that led me to my recovery, such as meditation, I get coached, and I have an NLP practitioner that I work with, journaling, breathwork, all of the good stuff, really, you know, I've made that part of my routine now. So it doesn't feel like a chore as it did at the very beginning stages where it was just like, oh, just more stuff on my to-do list. Now, actually, you know, this is the stuff that has me show up in the world, the way that I want to show up and where I can be present, and I can be less judgmental of myself less perfectionistic. And I think that drove a lot of the behaviors. So the perfectionism is really underlying fear, and just trying to let all that go. And it's a process.
Anthony Hartcher:
Absolutely. What you shared is terrific in terms of, it's a journey, it's not an end destination. And anything in order for us to keep order I've got to keep putting work in otherwise, it goes to disorder. And so it's the same as mental health like you can't just meditate one day and think that's enough for a lifetime. It needs to be a process it because you need to keep continue to put your mind to order. Because it's going to go to disorder over time. It's you know, it's a natural law. So it's funny how, you know, some people think that I can do some training now, and then I can stop. But what inevitably happens is they go back to where they were, and they feel like they've made no progress. I think the key point that you've really raised there that really resonates with me, is it's consistent work, and it needs to become part of your lifestyle, so that you're doing it all. Yeah,
Marie Savvas:
exactly. So even, you know, I say to some of my clients, you know, you put the work in at the gym, and is that because, you know, you can see the physical changes, you know, it's a very visual thing, but when you're doing the work mentally, it's really only you that's recognising, especially in the initial stages, the progression or the evolution. And so sometimes, you know, not having that external validation can be hard for certain people, and certainly my experience with clients as well. So it's like, well, you wouldn't like you mentioned, and go to the gym once and pump it in and expect to have, you know, guns, you just wouldn't happen. So it's the same mentally you just got to keep building that muscle. So yeah,
Anthony Hartcher:
the story I share is if you clean your room and you do it once, if you don't do anything more to it, don't put any more work in what happens to it. It gets messy like, like dust comes in and things get moved and you move things and over time if you're not constantly putting the work in, the room becomes very disordered. It's the same as our mind and our body. If we're not putting the work in, yeah, it goes to disorder. So we need to put the work in, in order to keep the order. Yeah, so
Marie Savvas:
true. So true. But there's so much goodness that comes from that, you know, there's a lot of so you know, I guess certainly in my experience and the experience that you know, my clients have had as well is, you know, they seeking out self-worth through their appearance. But eventually, what ends up happening is they're able to show up for themselves in this amazing, disciplined way that's really resourceful for them, then the self-worth starts to come from those actions, which is really amazing. But
Anthony Hartcher:
the the other really good point you raised before is not having your measure of success, or measure that you're progressing based on external validation because that's out of your control. There's nothing you can't tell somebody like you can, but it doesn't work. It's not authentic, but you know, you're going up to people and say, Do I look good? Do I look good? And you know, they might, they may just not want to hurt you and say, You look great. But your measure of success or measure of progress should be based on what you're doing every day to improve yourself, as you said, like, it's the meditation, it's, you know, but it there's no physical, but you you can notice that yourself that you've got more clarity, you're more present, you're more calm when you're doing it. And so it should be the measure should be, are you doing your meditation? Have you done your meditation, as opposed to, I need someone to come up to me and say, Oh, you're so zen today. That's relying on the outside world, as you said, that's out of your control, you've got no control over what? Yeah,
Marie Savvas:
that's right. And that's a good point that you raised, like I, I do a nightly inventory. So before bedtime, every night, I've got an app. And there's a little checklist of all of the fundamental tools that you know, I personally feel that I need to incorporate into my day, and then I just check it off, do the gratitude. And it's just really great to just come back to that. And there's self-accountability in that. And again, it's like recognising that all those little micro-movements, they're all successes, and they're all wins. And what that does really, in the space of eating disorders, is it's taking the focus off the physical, which, you know, obviously, this is what we've been talking about. And as we mentioned, if we're going to rely on external factors to validate something we can look at, even in the last, you know, couple of years, well, you know, it's trendy to have a Brazilian Butt Lift this season, next season, breast implants are out, like you couldn't possibly keep up, even if you wanted to. So it's like, allowing that to just be and, you know, having a level of self-acceptance and working on the internal factors is really just very grounding. And just having that agency where you're not caught up in, you know, the madness of it all, is is really the, it provides a lot of serenity.
Anthony Hartcher:
Absolutely. And I point you're touched on self-acceptance is a huge one. And I like if I think that you're special and unique, who you are, there's no one else on planet Earth out of this 8 billion people, how many billion people they're out on this earth, there's no one else that is like, Marie, you know, you are so unique and special. And the only way that is showcased is if you be you otherwise, if you're trying to copy and try to copy and be someone else, then you're not being you. And then, you know, like the purpose you being here is to show your unique expression. And it's not comparing yourself to others. And I get back to that, you know, when your mom thought that you look different, right? But we're all different. And and I'm thinking at that age, who knows what your ideal body weight was. Like so even the doctors don't know no one can tell your mom that you should be at this age, this weight or you should look like this. Doctors have no idea. No idea. No, no scientific literature can tell you who you should be in that moment. And what way to how you should look, you are you and I'm thinking what they're trying to do is take you who has a unique expression that sitting you know, like, off the bell curve, I sit well off the bell curve, many standard deviations from the norm. But like, so your body type could have been many standard deviations from the norm, but that that is you, right? And so why can't medicine Why can't you know what why can't we just recognise the could have been where you're at? And that's who you are? And like and and I think it was just that comparison and thinking we should normalise Marie, but why should we normalise Marie? We want you Marie to be unique expression of herself. Hmm,
Marie Savvas:
that's a really great point. And actually, it's really interesting because I had to do a talk not that long ago. And I looked at the stats, like what is the population of you know, the globe and and it also touched on that our chances of being born are like one in 400 trillion if you have to look at all the factors that come into play, and it's like, wow, like we actually are miracles for being here and saving
Anthony Hartcher:
So my clients will come to me and they're saying I want to lose weight, the doctor said, I need to lose 10 kilos and with the doctors just pulled a number out of the air based on a BMI that wasn't even ever designed to measure obesity or overweightness, it's got nothing to do with that. And so they're telling this person that you need to lose 20 kilos. And I say to them, I said, you may never get to that. But you know, that's some sort of fantasy, we don't know what your ideal weight is, the only measure we can do is you know, you're getting comfortable where you're at in the journey you're on and improving your fitness over time. And who knows what that ideal weight is going to be. So I don't know, my ideal weight. I've never known. I still don't know it today. But But I don't chase this sort of ideal weight. It's more, you know, do I feel that my fitness is progressing? Do I feel that, you know, I'm, you know, my mental health is improving, and it's all based on that sort of feedback is, you know, and it's more about me regularly doing exercise each day the way I want to eat. And then on top of that, I'll do you know, mental stress management practices. And if I'm doing all that, and if it's given me feedback that I feel good, I'm thinking, well just keep doing that. If I get some feedback to say, No, that I feel crap today. Why am I feeling crap? And I might change things, but this is just a constant work in evolution in progress.
Marie Savvas:
Absolutely. And I think, you know, I appreciate what you touched on there in saying that, you know, our measures, you know, the scale is one measure, and I don't think it's a the most reliable measure of whether we're moving in the right, or maybe an undesired direction, I just feel like there's so many other factors. And if we really shine the spotlight on what health looks like, for the individual, because it really doesn't matter what the next person's doing. I think that's really the way to true healing. And, you know, I've grappled with a lot of, you know, topics around this and wondered how it all kind of fits into the equation. So, you know, if you recovered, and you want food freedom, or food neutrality, do you doesn't matter what you look like, does it, you know, how do you how does that, you know, play into the whole, you know, mix and, you know, I think what I've really concluded is everyone's individual. So for some people food addictions may have been driven initially by the desire to attain a certain physique or body for others, it could be other reasons. And so ultimately, if your desire is to look a certain way, and you're able to do that, then go for it. But I mean, I, the first question I asked myself and my clients is, who are you doing it for? If it's something that you personally want, and that's something you want to achieve? It's a personal goal. Absolutely. I'm there to support and help you get there. But again, if you're looking for external validation, we really need to start digging into what's underneath that.
Anthony Hartcher:
100%, Marie. Yeah, I couldn't agree more in terms of that external validation, as you said, got no control over. It's like a moving target. It's a moving target. And it changes, as you said, with all the trends like those, those trends are fast-moving. Yeah. And
Marie Savvas:
I think the thing that, you know, kind of really struck me one day is that, just even it's not a linear journey. So if you're on a diet and you want to, you know, you're always gonna have to be eating a certain way to maintain a certain physique. So there is no like, Oh, I've just got to my goal weight, and all of a sudden, I'm gonna go back to eating the way that I want to, or even, you know, is it realistic for me to expect that, you know, my body will be the same after I have children. Is it realistic for me to expect, like, even, you know, I turned 50 last year, and, you know, got me thinking, it's like, okay, oh, gosh, I might not even have the body that you know, the body that I have, now, I'm not going to have it when I'm 60 or 70, regardless of whether my diet or my you know, exercise, even if it remained the same or increased, my body will not be the same, this is not a linear journey. And so that's where the self-acceptance piece comes in. So you know, even if I tried to control it, which I don't so much, I mean, I focus on nutrition, good nutrition, and moving my body and all those other things that we talked about, but that's all I'm in control of, like, my biology is going to do what it's going to do. So it's really like coming to terms with you know, with that, you know, I need to be okay with whatever the outcomes going to be, if I'm showing up and doing the right things in nourishing my body well, moving, being hydrated, sleeping, you know, ticking the box and all that managing the stress, then, you know, I've got to be okay and actually proud of whatever it is that shows up when I stand in front of the mirror. 100%
Anthony Hartcher:
That's self-acceptance and I love the share on the, you know, it's not a linear journey. And there's, you know, if you look at everything in life, it's all in cycles and waves and so, you know, light travels in waves and is pulsating and same with the sound and you know, everything around this is traveling in nonlinear fashion, right? So it's foolish for us to think that we can have some sort of linear journey and like I just look at myself and my nutrition journey, what I learned at uni, I'm now questioning everything based on what I'm reading and studying. And you know, so the science is fast moving. And so if a nutritionist or a coach tells you 10 years ago, this is what you should be doing. It doesn't necessarily mean you should be doing that today, just because science is evolving, we are increasing our knowledge and understanding. And we really need to keep up with that evolution of awareness and consciousness in order to evolve and become better versions of ourselves. Because how I eat now is not how I was eating when I was studying at university. And you know, it's all about fruit and vegetables. And so it's really incredible when, when you start questioning and thinking, well, I've got to keep an open mind, I've got to keep learning and what I was telling my clients two years ago, or even a year ago, I'm thinking, okay, I'm no longer sharing, I don't, you know, I've never seen the science that sort of as showing that that's not so effective for you know, for that disorder. And I'm thinking, Okay, I got to, I got this client in front of me now, I got to share the latest information. And it's, and this is the problem when coaches and you know, health professionals aren't keeping up with the I guess, the science or the evolvement of their expertise, then they could be giving outdated information or not, that's not current on helpful.
Marie Savvas:
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you on 100%. In the in the sense that, you know, I think the more you learn, the more you realise, you don't know, in some cases. So it's like, it's always been, you know, having that curiosity mindset and just seeking seeking information and education.
Anthony Hartcher:
And that leads me to my final question, and that's based on obviously, you've created some curiosity amongst the listeners in terms of sharing your story, how you've overcome it, all the different things you've trialed, and what works and what doesn't work and understanding it really comes down to that individual, I'm sure some of the listeners are thinking, how can I connect with Marie? So can you please share how listeners can best connect with you?
Marie Savvas:
Yeah, so the best way to connect with me would be through Instagram. So whether that's direct message, or if you follow, I'll get in touch with you as well. So it's Mind Map Method. Otherwise, there's also mindmapmethod.com. And so you can get in touch with me through there. And I offer new clients a 60-minute discovery call just so I can better understand, you know, the client needs and how I can be of support. Fantastic.
Anthony Hartcher:
And listeners, I'll include the links, tags that Marie just shared in the show notes. So just go directly to the show notes, click on them, and they'll be hyperlinked, so you can directly reach out to Marie. And Marie, I just want to say thank you so much for putting aside your time
Marie Savvas:
thank you for inviting me on and really my to enlighten and empower the well-being of the listeners and really appreciate the conversation. I thought it was worthwhile and it was really beneficial. So thank you, oh, hope is just even if I you know, got through and connected with one person in their recovery journey, then I'd be so grateful.
Anthony Hartcher:
Fantastic. That's winning. Definitely.
Marie Savvas:
Thanks again. Thank you.
Anthony Hartcher:
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