The Reality of Business
Welcome to The Reality of Business with Bob & Jeremy, your go-to podcast for insights, stories, and practical advice on all things business.
Since meeting at drama school in 1991, we've been lifelong friends and business partners, drawing on over two decades of experience running a successful sales and management training company together. With Reality Training at the heart of our journey, we've coached thousands, spoken at countless conferences, and travelled the world, gathering a treasure trove of stories, insights, and actionable advice along the way.
Originally launched during the lockdown of June 2021 as Bob & Jeremy’s Conflab, this podcast has evolved into The Reality of Business. Each episode offers a blend of thought-provoking discussions on the most pressing business topics, light-hearted banter, and real-world wisdom to help you think differently and make positive changes in your professional life.
Whether you’re listening as you multitask at work, relaxing at home, or on the move, we've crafted every episode to bring value, a fresh perspective, and a smile to your face. Tune in to discover what you didn't know about the world of business and beyond.
We proudly work with organisations of all sizes, from global corporations to ambitious start-ups, through our company, Reality Training – www.realitytraining.com.
The Reality of Business features original music by Charlie Morrell.
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The Reality of Business
Election Special: Why Does Public Speaking Matter? How Do You Engage & Influence Your Audience?
Elections are great ways to learn about the best public speaking. Rishi Sunak, Keir Starmer, and Nigel Farage, as well as a huge number of supporting cast members will be trying their best to influence us over the next few weeks and any of us can study how good they really are.
We all need, sometimes to elevate our voices and captivate audiences, whether it's during an election season frenzy or at an intimate family gathering. We discuss the intricacies of public speaking, dissecting the pros and cons of different styles. Discover how to craft a message that resonates, whether you're addressing farmers, industrial workers, or wedding guests.
We'll guide you through the complexities of audience engagement, sharing actionable advice on tailoring your speeches to touch the hearts and minds of your listeners, ensuring your words leave an impact.
Navigating the art of communication is a dance of timing, humour, and respect. Discover the secrets to managing stage fright, the strategic use of cue cards, and the delicate balance of humour to keep your audience hooked. You'll learn how to handle unexpected reactions and respect your audience's time, enhancing your delivery to make every word count.
Step into the shoes of history's most influential orators, from Churchill to contemporary figures, to understand how their speeches have shaped public discourse and inspired change. By analysing notable speeches, we highlight the importance of preparation and the undeniable power of rehearsal. Whether it's igniting a nation's spirit in times of war or creating unforgettable personal memories, the essence of public speaking can define legacies.
Join us as we explore timeless techniques that empower you to leave your own mark on the world through the spoken word. Plus, can a politicians speech really persuade you to vote for them?
For more info, free resources, useful content, & our blog posts, please visit realitytraining.com.
Reality Training - Selling Certainty
so I'm concentrating on delivering for the British people, stopping the boats and the others just haven't got a plan. Thank you, how do you think that went?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, good. Do I really have to do this every day? Yes, you do. Yeah, you do Every day. Okay, it's your job. Wish I didn't. Yeah, maybe a bit more planning, a bit more action, a bit more energy, more energy.
Speaker 1:We'll talk about it later, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Bob and Jeremy's Conflap the Reality Podcast. Welcome to Bob and Jeremy's Conflab Public speaking. What you just heard was a very poor impression of our current Prime Minister and the sort of stuff that he says quite a lot these days, and we thought we'd return to this topic because public speaking is something we're going to be seeing more and more of in the next 12 months as we approach a general election, and we think there's some really important pointers that we need to remind people of, and if people are not used to public speaking, then there's tips they need to know or they're just going to be appalling. So we are reviving our very famous do's and don'ts format. Our most popular one so far has been conferences, do's and don'ts, and now we're going to do public speaking do's and don'ts, and I'd like to welcome my friend and colleague to this, jeremy Blake.
Speaker 2:Hello, the other thing, listeners, I think to recognize is, although we're largely talking about how you can impress in your speaking to some form of public public you may know they might be your employees, of course but there's also likely to be a time in your life when you speak even more publicly to some people that you don't know so well, or you know some of them, but not all of them. This, of course, could be at a wedding, it could be at a eulogy, it could be at an awards ceremony. We tend to have more free time. You'll find that certain people will ask you to present things or get into committees or action groups or that sort of stuff, so you may be jostled into public speaking, but largely we'd love just speakers to be better. So we've got different tips and ideas and we will also be hammering home some of the absolute vitals, so do's and don'ts of public speaking. And I think just before we kick off there was a survey taken in the United States. Do you remember this, bob?
Speaker 1:Ah, yes.
Speaker 2:The number one fear in the United States was not dying. It wasn't that, oh, that I could die or have a heart attack. It was that I'd be asked to give a talk somewhere. So the second thing that scares the north americans the most is death, but the things are more scary, is what? I'd have to speak somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's more scary maybe they should start using it as reverse psychology and if someone's very ill, you just say, well, you may be ill, but we need you to make a speech first, and that might actually divert them from the fact that they're dying.
Speaker 2:It's not a bad idea, or it just cuts the waiting lists down and they all have heart attacks.
Speaker 1:Well, it can be terrifying, and one of the reasons that it's terrifying, of course, is that people don't prepare for them. I mean, it sounds so obvious, but that's something you and I have been training for years and it never seems to enter people's consciousness.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We've both done some research into this, and I've come at it from a slightly different angle, because I recently have been delving into the world of podcasts.
Speaker 1:As a podcast presenter, I thought it was only right that I look at what else is going on out there, and so I've recently been listening to a number of very good podcasts, and some of them, of course, are all about politics, and the reason we we kicked off with an example of the kind of stuff that Rishi does is that I've heard on at least three podcasts recently that he just isn't very comfortable standing at a podium making speeches, which for a politician, is an extraordinary thing.
Speaker 1:But he's not, of course, the first. In fact, we only need to go back one prime minister to find another person who was an appalling public speaker, and of course that's Liz Truss. So what we've had is two prime ministers who are reluctant speakers, who aren't very good at public speaking, and I heard recently on a podcast it was the Rest is Politics that there's a feeling going around that people at number 10 are making Rishi make almost daily speeches and statements just to get him out in front of people, but for him it's the most uncomfortable thing that he has to do, because he's much more of a get on with it inside person than a stand there and speak, and that's why he often says the same things again and again, because his turn of phrase and his quickness to respond isn't that great. He needs to think about these things before he does it, you know absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think we need to kick off with the number one do which we talk about, which is preparing. But preparing breaks down into a few areas and the number one thing about public speaking that is different to say presenting to everybody, you know, is you've got to do some kind of analysis of your audience. I'm going to have 50% of people thinking like this. There could be 30% like that, 20% like that. You know it's breaking down your audience and knowing where the appeal goes and also what they want to hear. So if you're a politician and you have a room full of farmers, then what do farmers need to hear? If you're a politician, you have a room full of industrial people, you should be attuning it. And this is one thing that I don't see happening enough is people have some core messages, but they're not analyzing their audience enough. So what do they believe? What do they fear? How do they feel? What are their emotions? What's their number one thing? They want this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, there's also a slightly different perspective now, especially in politics, but I think it happens in business too, where you look at your audience and you think, if I can bring 40 to 50% of these people with me but also antagonize another 40% odd of these people because some people don't give a damn either way, that's actually that means it plays well for you. And in fact if you watch any political drama that's a term that is used all the time oh, or that played really well for us, did it? Yeah, it's a higher percentage got that than the other side. Or if loads of people didn't like what you said, sometimes they'll do that to create an argument, to create a debate.
Speaker 1:Now, I don't really mind that, actually, because I think least then you are, you're making stronger statements, which is is getting people to then think about what their opinion is, rather than trying to straddle the middle ground with bland sound bites. And and if someone said to the Tories at some point, just use three words, because people can't remember four, so stop the boats is a classic example. It's so patronizing and so low end as to be totally meaningless and nobody appreciates it or believes in it anyway. So I think sometimes there's also that thing where if you're not able to express it coherently and with a degree of eloquence and actually come back to the point of telling stories which I'm sure we'll talk about more then really it's very hard to get excited about because it's just so trite and quick.
Speaker 2:Well, I think this leads interestingly into my next do, which is a realize. Do realize that your talk won't just be your talk there, and then to the live audience. It may end up on social media, it might be edited, it might be cut. I did a thing last week with a panel, and little elements of what they've said are now being turned into short videos which will be shared, and so half your audience wasn't there Well, not half. Whatever audience you get, it's out of context. So you've got to speak clearly so that if anything's edited or taken away, it still has power beyond the live session that you gave and I think that also links back to the fact that memory is reducing.
Speaker 2:People don't remember as much, so when you say stop the boats, oh, I can walk out. I can remember those three words. The other thing is that attention spans are shorter, so it may well suit somebody to film your half hour turning into a single minute, and it's going to be the highlights. So what was the best story, what was the best message and what's the action you want your audience to take? Because it's going to be boiled down.
Speaker 1:It is boiled down. I've got a great example of this. It is boiled down. I've got a great example of this. So about 15 years ago this would be we had a governor of the Bank of England, mervyn King, and he gave speeches all the time about the state of the economy and all that sort of thing, and one day he gave a really interesting speech about where the economy was and he used the term at the moment, our economy is zigzagging a little.
Speaker 1:Now, if you read that speech, it was nothing about that, it was all about other factors. But because that was an easy soundbite that was seized upon and was everywhere and nothing else was quoted from that speech at all. So I, in a state of quite, I was quite agitated. I dictated a letter and we sent it to him and I just said look, you've got a responsibility to be careful about what you say, knowing that only certain bits will be used. And to be fair to that guy, he responded to me he must have dictated it as well, because it was a full letter signed by him and he accepted that he did need to be more careful about what he said because it would be, you know, misconstrued.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those things that we've just talked about the way that soundbites are taken. If you go all the way back, that is propaganda. Yeah, if you, if you know what bits are going to be taken, what bits are memorable, if you know what bits are going to be taken, what bits are memorable, if you know what to say in the right way, you can then completely get the coverage that you need and get a message out there which could be very divisive, but that's why they keep trying to do it. So when we think about propaganda, you think of Goebbels and the Nazis and all that sort of thing. I'm sorry it has not changed that much. Of course the messages have changed, but the way they do it is almost exactly the same and I hope that we are now wiser to that. As we go into an age of AI and fake news and all that sort of thing, as we go into an election, are we able to go? I don't think that's what that guy really meant. That's not what was said.
Speaker 2:You know well if it's a video, the one thing that's going for you. If you've got the right energy, tone, gesticulation, body language, expression, you can make people feel things without necessarily them remembering all of your words. But again, as soon as it's printed and zigzagging is written in a headline, you go. Why did he say that? You don't the context? So I think the number one priority for a public speaker is to impact the people in the room who they're most trying to affect, because that's all you can affect. So, wherever you're speaking, do your best, but if there's a camera on you, it's going to be cut up, edited, taken out, even in a business sense it. May this awful word change the narrative.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to our podcast when we're not recording these. We deliver sales training and management programs for our company, reality Training programs for our company, reality Training. For 20 years we've worked with major brands to help them sell more, retain customers and manage their people more effectively. Contact us via our website, realitytrainingcom. So I remember years ago we were always taught keep it simple, stupid. Okay. Do you remember people saying that?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that inferred that the audience was stupid and they would only understand anything you were saying if you kept it really simple. And I think that what's happened is that we now have taken that to a degree where it's just so patronizing that it has no effect at all. And I remember we, for years, we used to say that, you know, people like to take in information at a level which is lower than their level of intelligence. Now, that may well be true. You know a nice simple diagram or a simple description. I said, right, I get that, now I can understand that simple diagram or a simple description. I say, right, I get that, now I can understand that.
Speaker 1:But actually, if you then lower it to a level where you're speaking down to me as though I am absolutely thick, as two short planks, then I am going to become antagonized by that, because I'm not that stupid, and I also may suspect that what you're trying to do is pull the wool over my eyes in some way because you're not treating me with a relevant level of intelligence.
Speaker 1:And so I think we now have to understand that we are living in a world where it's all done over camera, it's all done over screens. We do watch media. We have 24 7 media all the time and therefore, if you're in business and you're making presentations and running meetings and you are in front of people, then there is a skill to that which needs to be practiced and rehearsed. But also, as you've been talking about, what is it I'm trying to get across to these people? What is it that I need them to take away from this? Is it a meaningless soundbite which they'll remember, or is it actually two or three really important points that will make a difference If I can get that across and convey it in a way with enthusiasm and I think that's another thing we'll come on to Some people sound so bored with their own speeches that if I can get that across, then I've got a chance of making an impact. If I can't, it just disappears into the ether, which is possibly a reason why they're sticking them out every day to say something.
Speaker 2:So let's just run through a couple of do's, sort of top line do's, I think. Do realize that nerves are there, but also try and tell yourself it's excitement. It's quite a nice tip that is often used with teenagers who are being forced to speak at various things. So nerves is a form of excitement. Do use cards. You're not going to remember it all.
Speaker 2:And when people hold sheets of a4 I mean boris johnson held sheets of a4 unbelievable instead of nice slick, neat card you put one in the top right hand corner goes back behind the pack. Then you're on to number two. Surely they could afford autocue or an autocue, but cards in case the tech goes wrong. The other thing that you have to do is look at your audience and, if you're getting faces and expressions and things you want to be able to do stuff in the moment, say, oh, that that surprised you and then get them to speak. You can uh, oh, interesting, interesting, oh, I get a murmur Something that stand-up comedians do very well.
Speaker 2:They get a reaction they weren't expecting. They go. Ooh, I think a bit too blue for you, is it? Or have I set the bar? I think I've upset you. What don't I know that makes you a?
Speaker 1:great public speaker. That is when you know you're dealing with someone who has skill where they can deal with random interjections from an audience, make it funny and move on. Now. Not everyone can do that. No, no, of course not. There are some comedians who will just deliver and go. They won't necessarily engage with people because they haven't got that ability to just turn.
Speaker 2:I would say miles jupp. There is no audience interaction. It's just a polished piece, but he's an actor. He's an actor al murray pub landlord, probably the most gifted at dealing with anything an audience gives him.
Speaker 1:I've recently watched jimmy carr do some. Yeah, what he is not afraid of is to absolutely take the mick of out of that person you raise something like what they're doing. You know he has no problem, but people are ready for it, they expect it, but no, that is rare. Now I mean all the do's we've been going through I've agreed with You've got a few more.
Speaker 1:I've got a few more. What else have you got? Two others, which is and I can't stress this enough we're talking about comedians. Be funny how to be funny. Once or twice in your speech, Rehearse it and rehearse that bit. If you're not a funny person, rehearse the bit that makes them laugh. Trust me, it's a massive, massive thing that will make a difference to you. If you are dull, that's all they will remember. So try and learn a couple of gags.
Speaker 2:So what I'd say on that is, if you can't be spontaneously funny and some people try to be you can find a very well written, crafted joke practice delivery and the joke works because you didn't write it. So jokes are designed to have a punch line that no one's seen coming. It will get a response so you can actually find jokes to stick in.
Speaker 1:That's effective now, the last one I've got is key stick to timings. Yay, I've got that in well. There is nothing worse than a speaker going over which means everybody else is running late.
Speaker 1:That's the first thing. That's rude to all the other speakers who are coming on, but also your audience have timings too. So I'm sitting in this business session, I'm at a conference. There's an hour and a half of this and then I can get a coffee and go to the loo. If you start going over by 10, 15 minutes, of course people are going to get annoyed.
Speaker 2:Well, my tip is actually finish earlier, so you and I have often finished with five minutes in hand and people are delighted they get out slightly sooner.
Speaker 1:If you look at our episode about dissecting the obsession with meetings, you know most meetings could finish early as well.
Speaker 2:But that's it. We'll do another podcast on that. A couple of things props, if you've got something. So if you take olympic speakers like ben, he'll take his. Ben hunt, davis, he'll take his gold medal in with him. Yeah, excellent prop, bit of realia handed out to the audience. So, for example, I remember there's been people who've done talks in my wife's school and they've brought in swords, they've brought in artifacts, they've and and the you know that is sits there and they don't allude to it. It's right at the front on a table and it's gripping and in a minute I'm going to hand out. Oh yeah. So if you've got something worth sharing, do it.
Speaker 2:The other thing on imagery per se is you're going to rely on a technical feed, a decent projector, all that stuff. If you can avoid images, because otherwise it's again another whole presentation, then don't have it. Every politician that's doing a speech does not, unless they've been booked to a specific audience in a conference room or at a party conference. They don't use slides because you don't have the time. So I would rely so much more or less on image and I think those are all my do's. And rehearse, of course. Rehearse, flipping, speak it around your garden, your house or whatever in the bath, just rehearse.
Speaker 1:So I've got five don'ts. By the way, I would add to the do's just in general, tell stories, but we'll come on to that in a minute. My first don't is so simple and I'm afraid I'm guilty of this Don't be pissed. Okay, that's a really straightforward piece of advice.
Speaker 2:You've done one pissed with me. It wasn't really a speech, it was an awards ceremony, it was awards.
Speaker 1:And that was only because I had no idea we were doing it. I was sitting at a table at a gala dinner, yeah, and I was with a big load of drinking chaps I couldn't drink at all, do you remember, because my cat had to get home to put my cat down.
Speaker 2:It was so depressing.
Speaker 1:I didn't think we were doing anything else, so I I had a few, and then this guy came up and said would you mind coming up and giving out the awards? And and there's a picture of me hanging onto the podium, isn't there?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, you didn't know you'd be doing it, which is why you were drinking, I suppose.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Don't be drunk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't read the slides. Yeah, well, yeah.
Speaker 2:As we've said, try not to have them yeah. But, yeah, what else have you got? Don't be boring, don't overrun, because that sticks timings, and don't tell a story you've never told.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, because you, you've read it online or something. Yeah, so if you remember, in the office, david bent talks about some event he'd been at and as if everyone else was there. Do you remember? So and so do that thing. Yeah, no one knows, and so you're looking at someone who was there, but the rest of the audience to have no idea what you're.
Speaker 2:Well, I've got a that's one of my don'ts. Don't do any in jokes with four people who are sitting at the front about we were. We were out one night and that's private chat. I've seen people do that at conferences where they talk to the board about something the seven of them have done. That's just just gut wrenchingly gross. Yeah, my other thing is don't rush. You know, if I used to say that when a child first starts to publicly speak which is kind of like a school play, the only thing that you want as a parent is pace that they slow down. It doesn't change in adulthood the amount of people who rush and speak quickly. We just can't hear it. So don't rush. We've talked about not telling jokes unless you've actually crafted it. That is about it. Oh, and don't swear, because unless you can swear properly, a few comedians can, but if you swear and it's out and it's not backed. I was at a eulogy and this bloke said I've always wanted to say f in a church and he said it and everyone just went.
Speaker 1:Well, that wasn't very funny well, I saw john cleese do the eulogy for graham chapman's funeral and he did swear and it was very, very funny well, there you go.
Speaker 2:He could probably deliver it, and he?
Speaker 1:said, and the reason I can say that is because he wouldn't have forgiven me if I hadn't right. So that's very good. I look at this, this whole thing. I look back to the speeches that we've seen. I remember once you and I were in a conference in venice and there was a sponsored speech given by a man who didn't want to do it, who had been told to do it.
Speaker 1:It was an hour a highly expensive conference that would have cost every single person who attended several thousand pounds to attend. Yeah, and they had to sit through a sponsored, dull, unexciting speech from a brand that most people knew about. Yeah, I just think that that is torture, actually, and I wish that that people wouldn't do that what about jenny draper?
Speaker 2:be brief, be bright, be gone. I think.
Speaker 2:Think that's not bad either If you're going to speak for less time, then be great within a shorter space of time rather than average over a prolonged period of time. Some people think that they're so well known or they can busk. A lot of people think they can busk, but I promise they can't, even if they are the CEO of X or whatever they are. Your personality and the fact that you hold this position is not enough. People are not delighted to see you if you just start wombling on. So it doesn't matter how well known you are. You must prepare, because every audience is going to be slightly different. So should we do? Three is the magic number? Should we do three is the magic number? Let's do three is the magic number.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we have three questions today. The first question is what is the worst public speaking you've ever seen?
Speaker 2:The worst public speaking I've ever seen is an employer of mine who wanted to tell us about how we were going to be floated and it was all about making millions for the board and how we'd become a PLC and we'd be available on the stock market. I had no idea why they thought they needed to travel around the offices telling us this and it was the single most ineffective bit of speaking that made everybody no longer, like their employer, wondered what they'd grafted for for years to achieve to now be sold. And there was no benefit really in the selling. It was completely non-molded to us. It was the most ineffective, demoralizing, and I guess they thought they had to do some tour of telling us this, but it was pointless. That was the worst and we're using the same questions today. So the worst public speaking you have witnessed I think we've had some of the worst public speaking.
Speaker 1:I've witnessed, yeah, in the last four years, and I would say during the pandemic, when various politicians were wheeled out to talk about things. Some of that was just so dreadful. So do you remember the guy used to run the health service during covid? What?
Speaker 1:was his name. I mean, I can't remember the guy's name he was, so he's now disappointed. I'm a celebrity, matt hancock, matt hancock and, and I mean he, occasionally they'd make him do the evening speech and that was just agony. Liz truss has never delivered a decent speech ever. She is unbelievably useless at public speaking and admits it because she knows that. How she got to be prime minister, I've no idea, and I would say that Sunak is the most reluctant speaker I've ever seen. There is a man who does not want to speak at all.
Speaker 2:He's ready, salted, isn't he?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he doesn't want to, doesn't want to actually be put on the spot, he's not great in interviews either, he's not natural, he's not relaxed, and because that is not his skill set and I think, sadly, the days of having people who are accomplished communicators in leadership roles is sadly diminishing and has done for quite some time. But there we are. Who do you think is the most improved public speaker of late?
Speaker 2:well, without being political, it's Keir Starmer. He has got better. Yeah, I mean, previously, nigel Farage knocked every other politician out the park. Yeah, he was the best public speaker, and if only you had different politics, perhaps some would say.
Speaker 1:But he was just good, he had an easy message to sell as well.
Speaker 2:He could tell stories, he could take a question, respond. He had it in spades, keir Starmer didn't. He was quite nervy, quite jittery, and now he listens, he reflects, he gives it back and he grows in his energy. So I'd say he's the most improved.
Speaker 1:I agree with that so if you go back over the last well, you can go back 100 odd years. Really. What do you think has been the most effective public speaking? What to to make me act or change personally maybe you or anything historically, if we think about famous public speakers, what have they done? That has that has been effective and and you can use all speakers here gosh.
Speaker 2:Well, there's a few that stand out. I mean, there's some that that make you change your opinion on things. So I remember as a child having an amazing talk from a naturalist at school and that made me realize if we didn't do something, animals were going to die. So that was very interesting about endangered species and first woke me up to the environment. I liked some of the older politicians of the past, like Heseltine. I thought they're very impactful.
Speaker 2:But I suppose you could argue that some speeches make people go to war, make people you know prepared to defend their country against things. You and I in one of our courses we used to show a Churchill speech that was highly clever in getting an entire nation to come to our aid. I would say there's just a few highlights, really. I would say there's just a few highlights, really. But I suppose the reason why we like this topic is we know it can change the minds of people, because people can be rallied, they can be energized, inspired with a great speech and even if you're at a dinner and someone stands up, it can make the night, can't it? It can make everybody feel connected. It's a very important thing, rather than I've got to get this out the way. I see it as a responsibility if you're the person who's doing it to actually make the entire table room, congregation group, business group connect and feel collaborating, feel like they should be bothered to connect. It's a unifying thing. It's a really powerful thing, I agree.
Speaker 1:I think, if it's good, it is transformational. People like Churchill had the ability to make speeches that would be reported and quoted, and I think that's an interesting thing. How many of us can quote any speeches from the last 20 years? You know, there's not many.
Speaker 2:We can quote Churchill a lot, so that's the first thing we can quote Churchill a lot.
Speaker 1:So that's the first thing. I think the danger now is that we have certain politicians who can literally say anything. So if you look at Trump, you know, if you look at some of the rallies and some of the speeches he's given, there's plenty of very, very poor speeches that that man has delivered to these big stadiums full of people. And yet when you speak to his people coming out afterwards they say, oh, it's amazing, it's incredible. So he's realized that just his being there and talking nothing of any great substance sometimes is enough. So that kind of force of personality which I think was a trait of certain other dictators going back through history, you know that is another thing which is is a powerful thing that we don't realise that that force of personality sometimes can be enough. I think that possibly Boris Johnson thought that he had a force of personality to get through, but unfortunately he was required to have some substance which I think was probably slightly lacking. But then I think, if you think about some of the people around our current prime minister, I was thinking I saw an interview the other day that David Cameron, who is now currently our foreign secretary.
Speaker 1:Now, again, whether you agree with the politics or not. He comes across assured, relaxed, prime ministerial, presidential, almost because he's off around the world, you know, representing britain on the world stage, and he's done that in the past, he knows how to do it. He has a huge level of confidence which, I'm afraid, does set his leader in a slightly difficult light, because there's that prep, that presentation, that public speaking confidence that the leader doesn't have. And I think that that's an interesting one where if you have someone in a position of any sorts of power, whether it be in business or politics, then that leadership, that charisma, that ability to connect with people is really important. And I think if you're not good at it, then that rehearsal element that we've just been talking about, the way that you come across, the messages that you choose and the way that you deliver, becomes more and more and more important. And I fear that if people don't get this message then it will turn more people off getting involved in public debate because it's just so difficult.
Speaker 2:And just on that from my final thing on the personal note, if people think, oh, I've just got to get through this, it's a task that I wish I didn't have to do.
Speaker 2:You forget, at major occasions I went to my mother-in-law's 80th and my daughter, aged 18, spoke. That's major. No one will forget that. It's a chance People will reminisce. So it is your moment in the spotlight. On a personal note, don't just busk through it. No, actually take the opportunity to do a good job and if you are in the frequency of doing things, take 15 minutes to prepare. Don't just go. Oh, this, this force of personality, that expression you're using.
Speaker 1:Don't just think, oh, I can just turn up because you can't. I'll remind people of a stat we used on a previous podcast if you rehearse a presentation once, it will be 10 times better than had you not rehearsed it at all. So imagine if you rehearsed it twice. How much better it would be. Imagine if you did it three times and then went on. It would be amazing. But we don't, because we're almost terrified of rehearsing it, because that's how much we fear it.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, Public speaking. It may fall to you. It may already be part of your day Be better.
Speaker 1:See you in the next one bob and jeremy's conflab the reality podcast.