#382: Loyalty360 Loyalty Live | Tim Glomb, Wunderkind

Wunderkind works alongside clients using an AI-driven performance marketing solution, helping them form stronger brand-audience connections through identification resolution and hyper-personalized triggered messaging. The Wunderkind Identity Network identifies anonymous website traffic through a network that recognizes 9 billion devices, enabling clients to recognize anonymous users, gather first-party data, and make targeted offers across email, text, and ads.  

The company connects with any industry with ties to retail or that has direct-to-consumer revenue channels. Wunderkind is mostly active in apparel and fashion spaces, as well as beauty, luxury goods, and electronics. It is also fairly experienced in travel, hospitality, and even event ticketing verticals. 

Loyalty360 spoke with Tim Glomb, VP of Digital, Content, and AI at Wunderkind, about leveraging AI, data collection and maintenance, and offering an intelligence layer to help brands better understand their customers.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Good afternoon and good morning everybody. This is Patrick Smith, marketing Manager here at Loyalty360, welcoming you to another edition of Loyalty Live. In this series, we talk to the leading agencies, technology partners and consultants in customer channel and brand loyalty about the technology trends and best practices that impact the ability of brands to drive unique experiences, enhance engagement and, most importantly, customer loyalty. Today we have the pleasure of speaking with tim glom, vp of digital content, and ai at wonderkind. Welcome, tim, I'm glad you joined us first of all, awesome thanks, sam.

Speaker 1: 0:42

First of all, can you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself, your role with Wunderkind and your background as well, please?

Speaker 2: 0:49

Yeah, no doubt, patrick. Thanks for having me again here, excited to be here again. I am, as you mentioned, vp of Digital Content. Also oversee customer marketing and our operational AI, which is kind of fun. I am a 20-plus year brand marketer, spent a lot of time in the B2C space entertainment, music and television in the 90s and early 2000s, went into branded content agency world, ended up with Mark Cuban procuring content and technology for his 150 plus brands like AXS TV and Dallas Mavericks, and that led me to jump to the other side of the fence, which I've been for about a decade now in the technology side. So at Wunderkin, I'm responsible for all the great content that you'll see from our team anything that you see on a buyer's journey on our website and again, we have some really great AI tools that bring that content to life for marketers and technologists looking for solutions like ours.

Speaker 1: 1:46

Very cool, thank you. I've been doing some experimenting with AI and content myself actually, so it's awesome to hear. For those who may not be as familiar with, how Wunderkind supports a brand's customer loyalty efforts, can you give us a brief overview on what you do and the industries that you work with specifically?

Speaker 2: 2:03

Yeah, first I'll start with the industries. We really touch almost any industry that deals with retail at all or has their own direct-to-consumer revenue channels. So we're big in the apparel space, the fashion space, beauty, luxury goods, but also electronics. We're also fairly astute in the travel, hospitality and even event ticketing space. So we cover a lot of different industries. But what we do at the core is Wunderkind, for the last 13 years, has been building a giant identity graph which allows us to see 9 billion consumer devices, which is more than consumers on the planet.

Speaker 2: 2:40

Imagine we all have multiple devices iPads, phones, laptops, et cetera. Planet, Imagine, we all have multiple devices iPads, phones, laptops, et cetera and we stitch those together to help brands understand when triggered messaging or ads need to be sent back to somebody. So if a consumer is giving you Intel or a signal that they're ready to buy or they need something from you, we can help trigger that response, primarily in owned channels, a very cost-effective way, and we do this for about a thousand brands. We generate about $5 billion a year in that space. We also have an ads product. I won't go deep into that, but ultimately, at the end, loyalty is a common theme because again, we're looking at getting people into a brand's marketing list first touch point, all the way through recurring, even through advocacy. So understanding the signals that your customers are giving off when they're ready for the next touch with your brand.

Speaker 1: 3:31

Wonderful. So when you talk about loyalty and about those loyalty related signals, can you tell us a little bit about how you at Wunderkin define customer loyalty and what does it mean overall to your organization? If you could expand on that a bit more, yeah, loyalty is everything.

Speaker 2: 3:47

right. We're all loyal to certain things. I'm loyal to certain brands. I wear their hats it's probably not the most appropriate hat for here but loyalty really, we believe, is having someone think about you or do something with or around your brand, not even when they're being asked to, and it's not always transactional right.

Speaker 2: 4:07

Loyalty isn't necessarily oh, they came back and they purchased. Are they an advocate? Are they an evangelist? And I think evangelism is probably a good term to use around loyalty. It's synonymous, in my opinion, because evangelism, if you look at the definition, it's someone who converts somebody to something else, right? So if I love Patagonia, which I do, I'm a big outdoorsman how am I talking about that brand, conveying that brand's message and bringing other people to the brand? So you know, here at Wunderkin we are not specifically a loyalty platform technology, but all of our data and all of our intelligence and all of our actions through our managed service really help foster loyalty with existing customers that hopefully turn into advocacy. So that's a broad definition, but I think evangelism is a big thing that we're going for.

Speaker 1: 4:54

No, that was absolutely perfect. And I mean, on the note of evangelism too, I come from a marketing background. I'm somebody who they talk a lot about the marketing funnel, but now people are describing it more as an hourglass right, because that second end of the funnel post-purchase it's really important that you have people who are singing the praises of your brand and going out there and acting, as you know, salespeople by proxy at certain times. So, beyond that, when it comes to AI technologies, could you tell me a little bit more about how Wunderkind assists these brands with developing hyper-personalized marketing messages to better engage customers and then cultivate that ever-important brand affinity?

Speaker 2: 5:31

Absolutely. And look, ai has been around forever. Right, it's the hot topic right now. I mean, it's in my title. This is the first place I've landed where I've got AI in my actual title. So a lot of hoopla, but let's break it down. Ai really is the ability for machines to make better decisions than humans could, and hopefully better and definitely faster. Right Today, in fact, chatgpt4 released a whole new version where they can create audio, video and all kinds of text very, very quickly, and it's impressive. But at the end of the day, what Wunderkin's doing with AI is we've built it at the actual core of our engine.

Speaker 2: 6:08

A lot of AI you're seeing in the MarTech space right now. I'll equate it to a slapping a new coat of paint. Everybody's just saying, oh yeah, we can change some copy, no problem. You want to see a different subject line or you want to see a different description for your product? That's a very superfluous use of AI, in my opinion. When you have as much data as we have as I mentioned, 9 billion devices, a billion opted-in consumers we oversee and observe 2 trillion digital events per year for consumers when you have that much data and you can plug it into a true AI engine you can make decisions that aren't necessarily built on journeys or roles right, and just recently, again as a 20-year-plus marketer, I was excited when we could set up a journey right, almost like it wasn't a train track that we put consumers on, but it could go left and right. It could follow them as they made decisions.

Speaker 2: 7:00

Ai and where we've invested and committed at Wunderkin is you no longer even really need those journeys. You just need the signals and let the machine make a better decision of when does Jen need her follow up or when does she need more support. If your product has a product lifecycle and something needs to be broken in, well, you're not going to ask them for a review like the day they bought it like a chainsaw right, I'm an outdoor guy You're going to hit them up three, six, eight weeks later and say, hey, is it working? Did you get it tuned in? Et cetera. Actually make the journey fit where the consumer is. So we're really excited at what's going on with AI and our application of it because, again, we have one of the largest proprietary identity graphs on the planet. In fact, it's 30% larger than the largest. Esp One just went public and that was their big talking point was how much data they had, and we have 30% more of that.

Speaker 1: 8:00

Wow, that is tremendous. Data is power for sure. So could you talk a little more to that effect about specific examples of the ways you're helping specific brands do this, this level of hyper personalization within their outreach?

Speaker 2: 8:15

Yep, absolutely so. If you think about what Wunderkin does, we're a giant identity graph, right? We don't sell products. We're a managed service. We can use our data to help inform a brand products. We're a managed service. We can use our data to help inform a brand. And let's make up a brand. Let's call it Acme, right? And let's make up a consumer Jane Doe.

Speaker 2: 8:29

Well, when Jane Doe interacts with Acme, acme and Jane Doe have a history and there's data between them. So Acme, as the brand, gets very excited. Oh, jane came to our site today, or she opened our app today, or maybe she made a purchase. That's great. But really, acme only sees the interactions that happen between Acme and Jane Doe on their digital property. Well, enter Wunderkin. Wunderkin, through our identity graph.

Speaker 2: 8:54

We know other sites that Jane has gone to Not all of them, but we're on thousands of websites and we also power a giant advertising platform technology. So we understand more about Jane than Acme itself would understand about her. So we can make recommendations almost over their shoulder to Acme. So, for example, we may know that Jane spends 30% more in her average basket size with other brands. Acme would never know that and we can't tell Acme oh, jane spends 30% more, but we know this. So we're like an advisement. We can come in and say, hey, jane actually doesn't need a discount, she spends more than average in these other places that she transacts. What Jane really cares about, what we've seen from her rich profile history, that we see she cares about loyalty points or some other offer that might be non-transactional. So we bring that intelligence layer and we're allowing brands who feel like they know their customers but we know them way more.

Speaker 2: 9:56

Another analogy would be if you go to a party at someone's house and you don't know many people there, well, the host of the party almost knows every person. They're the ones who invited them. So if you wanted to meet somebody on the other side of the room, you might say, hey, I'd love to meet that person. They look like you know. We hit it off. Well, great, that host knows more and can give you some insights and tell you how to transact with them or how to start the conversation. Oh, that's Tim, he's got two kids, he lives in Colorado, et cetera. So that's what Wunderkin's doing and all of our brands are using that to make these hyper-personalized offers, whether it's a content offer, an engagement offer or just a hey, glad you're involved with our brand. That's the data intelligence that we bring for that hyper-personalization in those own channels.

Speaker 1: 10:42

That is tremendous, and I love the party metaphor as well. Just a few moments ago, we described data as power, but with data and with power, there always comes an imbalance of power and a question of how are we going to regulate this? And so, with the complexity around data collection, maintenance, distribution, gdrp, how does Wunderkind help brands navigate all of these different data and consumer privacy concerns that are so important, especially as data laws and regulations become more and more on the forefront of sociological discussion?

Speaker 2: 11:13

Yeah, it's a great question and I'm going to put my marketing hat on from, let's say, 10 years or longer ago. Right, as a brand builder, I wanted as much data as possible in-house. I wanted proprietary data. I wanted to be able to do whatever I wanted with that data. Right, and maybe there were some partners, some endpoint technology solutions or a marketing stack I could build, but I wanted to own the data.

Speaker 2: 11:38

And today, with the complexity no federal law here in America around privacy, right, they keep saying one might come, who knows it can't hold our breath any longer. What marketers should really be focusing on today, and where I flip the script in my own head, is I want to partner with companies that do things really well. If you get yourself in a legal situation, you don't all of a sudden go to Wikipedia and try and become a lawyer. You hire really, really intelligent law firms that are experts in the case law that you need. We have a million examples of that from again. Like you don't build your own shopping cart, you Shopify, use an existing off the shelf technology.

Speaker 2: 12:15

Wunderkin has been doing this for 13 years, and when I say this, I mean the collection of proprietary customer data, consented, opted in data that that we can use on behalf of our customers. It's important to note. As I said before, we can't tell a brand everything we know about a person, but we can advise, we can make recommendations on what might align that brand closer to what that customer needs. And when you allow a partner like Wunder to come in and do what we do really well, which is understand the data and make recommendations on what the customer needs from you, then you win. Then you can build your products. You can build your product marketing. You can go to market. That's what you should be doing as a marketer. You should allow us and other platforms to do what they do well.

Speaker 2: 13:01

So my suggestion to any brands that are worried about data governance and privacy is find the partners that are very, very good at what they do. They're completely compliant, they have great references and they've been doing it a long time. Then plug them into your ecosystem, as we do. We natively natively in some platforms, but seamlessly integrate to all ASPs out there. So lean on a partner that has the data, has the government's policies and will do it on your behalf. Don't worry about owning everything, because then you become responsible for it and, honestly, if you're in the product business, be good at being in the product business. Don't be privacy experts.

Speaker 1: 13:45

Right. Find somebody who's done the research and trust them. Lean on them Right. Know you're in good hands no-transcript.

Speaker 2: 14:14

I go find a lawyer that's very good at what they do, because I need to win and need to be protected. Do the same thing with your data. Do the same thing with your MarTech stack.

Speaker 1: 14:22

That's a great point. Tying it back in now, full circle, back to loyalty. What do you think is working for your clients right now when it comes to successful loyalty programs and strategies and, if you could, could you provide an example or two?

Speaker 2: 14:35

Yeah, absolutely. I think the key that's working for all of our clients, and has worked for a long time, is providing value to your end customer in the moment where they need it, right. So there's a little bit of guesswork, but the technology and the data persists today, so that you can know when and what and where somebody actually needs help from you, right, and this is not the cast and blast like, oh, everyone today is going to get this offer. Well, yeah, that works, especially when a product launches. Right, you have to tell the world. But true loyalty is going to be fostered when you can understand that person as an individual and you can really connect with them. When they need you and it's not always, you know ask to buy. So triggered messaging, which is really where Wunderkin lives, that's our sweet spot. Triggered messaging means we're going to send somebody a message or an offer or content, whatever they need, based on signals or data that we have that says this person probably needs this. Today. I always revert to babycentercom. My children are now teenagers, but I've been blown away at that website where it will put in a date of your child's birthday and it will tell you exactly what you need to know when you need to know it, and that fosters great loyalty when a brand can do that. The other thing is understanding your life cycle of your product right. As I mentioned, if somebody bought a product and they need three, four weeks or more to get familiar with it, don't go ask them for a review the next day. So you know those are ways that you can provide value in the moment. Also, you know, don't make offers just based on the past behavior that you know.

Speaker 2: 16:09

Remember we talked about Acme and Jane Doe. Well, that's a very limited data set because Jane leaves your site and she does other things that you don't see. That's where a wonder king can come in and look at Jane's entire history or richer profile. We have more data on her, so things like that can really help even from the first touch point. If we know Jane the first time she comes to your website, we can say hey again. Maybe she doesn't need that 20% off discount to join your mailing list. Maybe she wants like to know about your loyalty program. Tell her you're going to give her great loyalty advice and documentation and get her to opt in there. So you know, when you can see more about Jane, you can stitch together more recommendations, you can provide more value in the moment, and that's where I really think that value and loyalty are hitting the ground together.

Speaker 1: 16:57

Yeah, absolutely. And then, building off of that, are there any programs that you personally admire or are loyal to as a customer, and what do you like about their offerings that specifically you, that specifically draw you in from a consumer perspective?

Speaker 2: 17:09

Yeah, you know, mark Johnson asked me this question before a couple of years ago when I was in another firm and I think it still stands today United Airlines I'm in Denver, so it's easy. They're a hub for me. I can get anywhere, but their app is unbelievable. I'm also in the Advantage program for American Airlines. I'm also in the Advantage program for American Airlines. I'm also in Frontier because they're Denver-based.

Speaker 2: 17:27

A few other things United's app where they're winning my loyalty is their investment in technology. You can change a flight via text. You can change it in app. You can change your seat literally at the boarding gate. So that's a great use, I think, of technology empowering a person to do what they want to do without having to call customer service, be on hold, et cetera. I got to give kudos to United, although I will give them one ding is that my partner and I are both 1K flyers for them and we both got offers on the same day that were wildly different. One asked me to spend $40,000 and one asked her to spend $1,300, and they were the exact same value. So United still has to understand. You know, loyalty members are going to talk to each other and they're going to see that we're getting different offers for the exact same product Right.

Speaker 1: 18:15

And they can use some of that more robust intent data from Wunderkind, right.

Speaker 2: 18:18

So maybe you should call them. We'd love to talk to them.

Speaker 1: 18:22

Awesome, and thank you for that. Before we get to the more fun part of the interview, do you have any closing advice or thoughts? And then what's next for?

Speaker 2: 18:32

Wunderkind as we move forward into the back half of 2024? Yeah, look two things. One, lean into AI. Ai is it's not a job killer, it's a transitional tool. It's amazing what it can be done if you have the right data, right and AI. Everyone knows and we've been saying this AI is only as powerful as the data that you can put into it and train it on. So, don't be afraid of AI. It's going to create more opportunity than it is going to create this disruption in a negative way. The second thing is what's going on with Wunderkin.

Speaker 2: 19:02

We're incredibly excited because we've adopted AI very early on. We've been using it for years, as our core engine is autonomy, and what I mean by that is humans now can use platforms like Wunderkind's autonomous marketing platform to make better, quicker, faster decisions. What used to be humans setting up journeys or journey orchestration or business rules can now be agile with your data, our data. Companies like ours are trying to solve these problems with AI and get to an autonomous state where the orb of the engine just makes the decisions and gets the offers out to the person in the moment that they need them the right offer, right time, right message, right channel. We've been saying it for years, but AI and the advancements in technology, servers et cetera it's now there. So we're excited to see how autonomous marketing will allow humans to do more human things. Creative product development really resonate in the marketing collateral, whereas AI can stitch together the consumer experience. I'm very excited for the future of that.

Speaker 1: 20:05

Yeah, that sounds awesome and very exciting as well. So thank you for that response and all the great responses. Now we can move on to the fun part of the interview, which is the quickfire questions round, and so we have 10 questions. We ask that you keep these as concise as possible One word optimally, if not just two or three, and whenever you're ready we'll jump in. Are you ready to go?

Speaker 2: 20:26

Let's see how fast we can do this.

Speaker 1: 20:28

Okay, let's do it. Number one what is your favorite word? Eat, I love to eat. Number two what is your least favorite word?

Speaker 2: 20:35

Can't, it can always be done.

Speaker 1: 20:37

Number three what excites you? Ah, being outside. What do you find tiresome? Oh, typing. What book would you like to recommend to your colleagues?

Speaker 2: 20:50

Everyone, I've been doing it for years. Four Ds of execution.

Speaker 1: 20:54

What profession other than your own would you like to attempt? I think airline pilot would be fun. For.

Speaker 2: 21:00

United.

Speaker 1: 21:01

What do you enjoy doing that you don't get to do very often?

Speaker 2: 21:05

I did it last night, but fishing.

Speaker 1: 21:07

What inspired you to become the person you are today?

Speaker 2: 21:11

What or who? Either what did? Oh man, I didn't think about what. But there's a fellow, tom Flanagan, who's my mentor. He's an ad executive, leo Burnett, great guy, my mentor. He's been great and I guess, I don't know, solving problems is what has inspired me to become who I am today.

Speaker 1: 21:29

Cool. What do you think about typically at the end of your day? It's always getting outside. You've got to get outside. And then, lastly, how would you like to be remembered by your friends and family?

Speaker 2: 21:40

If it wasn't fun, it wasn't worth doing. So I hope I was a fun guy.

Speaker 1: 21:44

Awesome. Well, I can say after this interview you're a very fun guy, tim. Thank you so much for the time. It was great hearing your perspective on customer loyalty. We look forward to hearing more from you and Wunderkin throughout the year. I want to thank everybody for listening. We are looking forward to having you back on our next Loyalty Live very, very soon. Have a great rest of your day evening, wherever you are. We appreciate it, thank you.