Oh Brother
Real brothers, Reel Talk: Dan & Mike Smith cover film, TV, & artist interviews 🍿📺🎤
My brother Mike and I launched the “Oh Brother” podcast in 2020. The show’s primary objective is to share our enthusiasm for film and cinema in an informative and entertaining way. We also enjoy interviewing artists with diverse backgrounds in film and television who work both in front of and behind the scenes.
We invite you to join us each week and follow the podcast so you never miss an episode. We’d love to hear from you, so email us or text us some fan mail to share your feedback on the show!
Oh Brother
The Flash (2023) - Andy Muschietti
Get ready for a hearty discussion on Ezra Miller's performance and the impact of CGI technology on the portrayal of "The Flash". The conversation heats up as we also dive into Michael Keaton's portrayal of Batman, reflecting on the nostalgia it evokes. This episode is not just about the heroes though, we're also addressing how mental health issues are dealt with in the script, especially in Miller's character development.
But that's not all. Keep your superhero capes on as we zoom out to take a look at the entire DC universe. What's our take on Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman and James Gunn's influence? Tune in to find out!
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Welcome to the Obrother podcast with hosts Dan and Mike Smith, brothers from the same mother with different opinions on movies, tv, video games or more, plus celebrity interviews. Get ready, get set it's time for the Obrother podcast.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Obrother podcast. I'm your host, dan Smith Long. Sign me, as always, my brother from the same mother, mike Smith, how's it?
Speaker 3:going. Hey man I can tell it's Mike Smith, because it says Mike on my mug.
Speaker 2:That's right. Yeah, I'm surprised you didn't do the last name, because every now and then it seems to escape you. But yeah, these guys personalized mugs. You know these aren't really up for sale. There's only four in existence. We sort of you know. Look, we went that way, we've been there, done that. Nobody gives a s*** about what you're hocking.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Don't dilute yourself, don't kid yourself into thinking Anybody wants your merch. They don't, right, right.
Speaker 3:Even bigger size.
Speaker 2:I personally have about nine of the Obrother mugs I have at least four iterations and how much do you owe the bank at this point for all these mugs? A lot, none of which was sold to anyone.
Speaker 3:I've bought 40 mugs 40 mugs. Yeah, that's four and the first superfan, mug, went out, but I won't.
Speaker 2:I'm not even going to say who it is. Yeah, superfan. Yeah, well, we'll you know. Anyways, we'll come back around to that. So here this is an interesting. This has only happened maybe one or two other times, maybe Once at least I know we get on, mike, you had no idea. I don't know what we're going to talk about. You know what we're going to talk about Now.
Speaker 2:As we're recording this, we're deep in the throes of Obrother Halloween Fest, which, of course, nobody does it like Obrother Podcasts or Halloween Fest. It was celebrating all things Halloween, all things horror, doing a lot of movie reviews. We've got a lot of first looks. You know, we're looking at a lot of Halloween horror genre trailers, right, and I want to say, don't really know when this is going to air as some sort of bonus episode, who knows? Right. But I do want to give a shout out to our, our street team, the Obrother Street team, alyssa and Hannah, a couple of our production assistants, who, again, as of this recording, had just launched a new Obrother podcast feature which, mike, is called Obrother on the street, right, and it was just fantastic. I'm loving this. We've got one episode so far. I cannot wait for more.
Speaker 3:They're at my first call age. Yeah, I was just loving it. They're engaging with all these these throwback. Yeah, all these youngsters.
Speaker 2:Was it Alexandra who you know, threw some shade on Halloween? I mean, it was a little bit painful, little harsh. I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 3:Well, my favorite part of that was Alyssa's reaction.
Speaker 2:Alyssa's reaction was classic it's price.
Speaker 3:She just had, like this stuff.
Speaker 2:Look clearly, she was looking to us like right, because she knows that I mean, look behind me, it's pretty evident, right. Look behind you, it's pretty evident, right. But you know, it's interesting because when, when this, of course, new Obrother podcast fan now was responding to that question, she was, she had explained right. She gave a rationale. She said I preface this by saying I know it's going to be unpopular, kind of controversial, but I'm not a big fan of Halloween, that franchise, because it's the same thing over and over and over again. Now she is a big fan of Saw and we're coming up on Saw X, saw 10. And I'm thinking, isn't that a lot of the same thing too, isn't it a?
Speaker 3:lot of the same thing.
Speaker 2:It's like come on, get into a trap, get out of a trap. And, mike, you know the Saw franchise. I saw them all. I'm getting ready to dive into the Saw franchise. I'm excited. I did see a lot of the first one, but you know that's about where it ended for me. So, anyways, so, mike, we're back. You don't know what's going on.
Speaker 3:I told you.
Speaker 1:All I said was let's do this episode.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to tell you what it is, you don't need to know. You'll be able to. You know, you've got a. You've got a memory like an elephant. Is that right? Is that the right where you never forget?
Speaker 1:things Like really good retention for things right.
Speaker 2:Not happy about the elephant thing, but you know, Is that a honeymooners thing, I don't know, but no, no, no, no, I think that's a king of queens bit, but anyways, so all right, mike, this is going to surprise you, it's not, it's already surprising you. But first of all, that I watched this film and that we're going to be here talking about it has nothing to do with the Halloween fest, although it can make a connection.
Speaker 1:A very short bacon connection.
Speaker 2:So, mike, the other day, a few days ago, one movie did I pop on and watch on max that you've been talking about and saying I think you should check it out. We had planned to do an episode and then it kind of passed us by. And then, you know what, I carved out time to watch the film. I think I know. No, what is it? Flash, the flash. I was right. So here we are, mike, we're going to do an episode of the flash.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:All right, now let me set this up a little bit. So the flash came out June 16, 2023. It hit theaters. Now it just hit streaming on August 25th. It's on max, which is where I saw it, and it's now on.
Speaker 3:Did you see it in the theater?
Speaker 2:I did, yes, okay, so you saw it in the theater, which I want to know about that experience.
Speaker 3:It's now on 4K and Blu-ray as well, or DVD.
Speaker 2:Do you have it?
Speaker 3:already no, but you're going to get it Until it.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Like the sales went. I'm waiting for that to go, yeah, all right, let me do the usual.
Speaker 2:Let me set this up a little bit Now. This is the 13th installment in the DCEU, as they call it, but we're big fans here of the DCEU, as everybody that listens to the show knows, right. Well, sorry, kazim there which we know what happens when we do that, directed by Andy Muschetti Muschetti, I think, is how he says it. I'm probably butchering it, but anyways and here's the connection, because he directed the first two it movies. Okay, I don't know if you made that connection, I did so there's some relevance back to how we.
Speaker 3:And I've seen both of those movies as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, written by Christina Hodson, who also did Birds of Prey and also Bumblebee, which I really liked. I thought that was a good. And Birds of Prey Isn't that a Harley Quinn movie? It is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is Correct yeah.
Speaker 2:All right. So let me run down a little bit of the cast, just a few of the main players. Ezra Miller, of course we'll talk about. Michael Keaton, of course, right, lot to talk about there. Sasha, is it Callie? Or Cara Zorell? Right, as her alien name Ron Livingston. And there's a story behind that, because he wasn't the original as the dad. Right, which he was not the original.
Speaker 3:Which he wasn't in the yeah Right In the last DC. It was Billy.
Speaker 2:Crudup Correct.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and Billy Crudup was a star of.
Speaker 2:Aliens Covenant right. Billy Crudup was in that movie, Was he? I know him from almost names. He's a great character actor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and when you get a character of that stature you figure he's going to stay in that role.
Speaker 2:So I don't know what happened, but I think, honestly, it was just Because and Mike, you can probably tell the audience more about this than I can, or most people which is all the delay, like this, goes back years to trace the lineage of the making of this film. I'm not even sure I was alive at the time, quite honestly, when it started, but I think it ended up being just scheduling issues. Billy ended up tied to some other project and couldn't do it.
Speaker 3:Probably.
Speaker 2:All right, then the last ones. I want to be Maribel Verdu, barry Allen's mother. Yeah, nora, I believe Nora Allen. Then, of course, michael Shannon reprises his role as General Zod Right.
Speaker 1:In this moment From man of Steel Right.
Speaker 2:His sidekick there is back too In the film as well. So budget of $200 million Mike, I know you're going to talk about this a little bit Opened at about $55 million.
Speaker 3:Which was a disappointment.
Speaker 2:Underwhelming to say the least. Grosst US to date about $108 million. And worldwide about $268.5 million. That's where we're at with this film, so it is a box office bomb Right by the numbers.
Speaker 3:As big a bomb as there's been this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and projected it was about a $200 million loss for Warner Brothers, or Warner Brothers Discovery now as they're known. That happened in the middle of the night.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly those two. That means a new fee for streaming somewhere. Exactly A lot of new fees coming. Yeah, for streaming.
Speaker 2:And maybe towards the end of this episode, mike, we cut another, we have another conversation, we have to talk about the D23 announcements, so we'll come back around to that, because I know it's irrelevant but it's very relevant, so anyways.
Speaker 2:Mike, I just want to say right up front I like to film overall and here's what I got to say. Mike, that might be controversial, but you and I talk about this all the time in the podcast. I think you'll back me up here. I'm really surprised, really curious, to see what you say Now. We've talked a lot about separating the art from the artist, correct, and I think Ezra Miller's performance in this movie was really really well done. It was great. Quite honestly, I cannot deny them the performance in this film. It was really good.
Speaker 3:It suffered in a lot of other ways, especially when he played two characters, he played himself in the past. That was really funny, I mean.
Speaker 2:And it was. You know, it's amazing. Now, mike, we think about you. Go back to like double impact or whatever with Jean Claude.
Speaker 3:And the two heads. The two heads.
Speaker 2:It was so huge, it was the one scene and I think it's double impact where he's hanging on the side like the passenger.
Speaker 3:The truck.
Speaker 2:The driver's side door of the truck. One head is this big.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just crazy.
Speaker 2:Really bad. But the technology now and they're doing this thing called volume capture where right, it's basically an acting double sharing the space. But they're CGI-ing Ezra Miller's face, but it's so well done, it's like you believe he's got a twin or something.
Speaker 3:You know when it really began was with multiplicity, with Michael Keaton Interesting. But if you go back to episodes, I do say it wasn't Ezra Miller, even though he's going to take the blame. You did say that I said it it's not because of him that it tanked.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:It really. There was a meeting in Hawaii with all the heads of Warner Brothers, and of course it had to be in Hawaii because you know, right, you know you got to get away from all the distractions, right. And at that point in time, they could have replaced Ezra Miller. And that was the meeting, and their decision was let's go heavy on Michael Keaton, let's get him in this, and that was the decision they made, which we talked a lot about, because you know and you can read this on Wikipedia or whatever on the internet.
Speaker 2:But I mean, clearly it was obvious to see, just prior to its release in the theaters, all of a sudden, like, is it a Batman movie? Correct, is this? You know what I mean. It was very heavy on the Batman. The poster was more.
Speaker 3:It was basically Batman it was, although I didn't like Keaton as an old man and I thought Well, but he was very spry and right the way he played. It was very comical Right, and you've got to remember that he goes back in time to Ben Affleck's Batman. Not, that's right, not the Batman of 89. Whatever, and this is that was set.
Speaker 2:You talked about this on a previous episode too, which was the way that, and it was cool to see it because you'd already described it how Keaton, as Bruce Wayne describes the multiverse, with spaghetti with spaghetti noodles, and it took what?
Speaker 3:Five minutes or less.
Speaker 1:Less than that. Less than that, yeah.
Speaker 3:And Dr Strange. Multiverse of madness is so confusing.
Speaker 2:But is this really? I mean, I guess it is a multiverse concept, right?
Speaker 3:I guess yes, because as Ramila goes back and he's warned by Ben Affleck's Batman don't do it.
Speaker 2:Right and the whole impetus is that Barry Allen's mother is murdered and he goes back to try to basically change history. And he tells Ben Affleck, I can say so, your parents too, and anybody that's ever seen back to the future knows you don't mess with the space time continuum Correct. Right, I don't care if you've got a flux capacitor or what the hell you got.
Speaker 3:That joke went on a little too long. The Eric Stoltz joke, I liked it.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. I mean I loved it, and talk about what?
Speaker 3:that is, for people who don't know.
Speaker 2:Well, Eric Stoltz was originally cast as Marty McFly. And back to the future. In fact, most of the movie was already filmed before they made a switch in. The short story is that Eric Stoltz is a great actor.
Speaker 1:We love Eric Stoltz. We like Eric Stoltz.
Speaker 2:He just wasn't bringing the comedic element that they were looking for and Michael J Fox. Of course you know America's, you know everybody's in love with Michael J Fox.
Speaker 3:Right At the time, yeah.
Speaker 2:And still today. Like who doesn't love Michael J Fox?
Speaker 3:But there's the irony there. Ok, there's two ironic things that I wonder if they were on purpose. One was at the very opening sequence, when first of all, the opening sequence I thought was horrible with the babies. Thank you.
Speaker 2:But because, really, mike, that it's about 20 minutes. Yes, 20, 25 minutes. I clocked it. That's really the only issue I had with the film, right, if I'm being honest, once they survive that, cut that out, mike. It's a two hour film. Let's go home.
Speaker 3:And that's right, and it's probably the best DC film since. Yes, chris, nolan's Batman, can you give us a little?
Speaker 1:You know, it wasn't so much that it's the yeah it's actually running.
Speaker 3:Remember when he did the running in a circle?
Speaker 2:Yes, and it was just like it was so goofy, it was funny. It was hard not to chuckle a little bit.
Speaker 3:But the issue was, ezra Miller had all these off off movie issues. And he makes a joke about mental health at the beginning and says Now talk to me about that, Mike.
Speaker 2:So I was very surprised. You're right, there's just in that first opening sequence.
Speaker 3:First opening sequence.
Speaker 2:For 40 minutes, the, basically the climax, the resolve, the resolution of that sequence. It includes this statement you're talking about this line where he says, basically he's saying, yeah, dc hasn't really figured out how to support their actors in the mental health department. Correct, something that's that effect. How did? Was that a they must have? Was that like a pickup shot that they did?
Speaker 3:I don't know, and that's why I said there's two ironic things, and that was one of them. I'm like was that in there before? I was scratching my head, I loved it. And then the second irony was the whole Eric Stoltz.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because they they had that same exact meeting about Ezra Miller, yeah, and instead of replacing him with Michael J Fox, they rolled the dice and thought, okay, michael Keaton can carry this, yeah.
Speaker 2:Now I hope that and I don't want to make light of this right, because in all the things that I've read and kind of prepping for this conversation with you, because it would be easy it would be easy for us to just take shots right and be insensitive and all these things, and I don't want to do that because we are talking about a human being who does clearly, you know, is struggling with some mental health issues. Here we are as we're recording this. It's suicide prevention month, so point that out there. But you know, I do hope that they are able to overcome these things, become well, make amends, all this stuff, because I think they should be able to carry on in this character. That's how well. I mean, I'm shocked that I'm even hearing myself say this, but it's true, from what I've heard, that ship has sailed.
Speaker 3:he's done.
Speaker 1:I really don't.
Speaker 3:The decision right now is do they eliminate the flash or recast? So I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed and you and I I don't want to recast it. Yeah, you and I, so we're likely not going to see the flash. If that's the case, I mean listen, the flash was never.
Speaker 2:No, I was never a huge fan of that character. I didn't like hate the character, it just wasn't like okay whatever, the flash, but again, I just he, they were great at this Right, there was more to lie, you cannot deny the. And there you know, we just talked about this, mike on In Red Eye, we did an episode on the movie Red Eye. We were talking about Rachel McAdams and the arc and the emotional arc that she goes through right and in a much shorter span of time, and the movie yeah right Time-wise.
Speaker 2:And Ezra Miller goes through the same thing in this. I mean there's a couple of scenes in here that'll rip your guts out. It's that good man yeah. It's pretty acting.
Speaker 3:Like I said, the opening sequence was silly and stupid and I thought and it was, I didn't like it.
Speaker 2:It was an overuse of CGI which was one of the problems I had with the film. There were some great effects, don't get me wrong Really amazing visual effects, but here and there I just thought they just went, you know, one step too far with it, right, and that was one of them.
Speaker 3:And the baby in the microwave was supposed to be funny. I know how am I laughing at that? You know that just what happened with that. I was just puzzled by that choice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to even use that as humor. Now switch gears a little bit. Let's talk a little bit about Sasha Kali, who's actually from Boston. She's a Boston native. She was getting a ton of praise. She was and I loved her. I thought she was really good and she was in it just enough.
Speaker 3:Yeah, see, that was my issue. I didn't think she was in it too much I wasn't willing to go out on that limb and say she's great. She's fantastic because she wasn't in it enough. That's fair. That's fair. That was my take.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're kind of like indifferent to the whole thing, yeah. I was kind of I thought she was fine, but I want to see more of the character which we will. I think she's got what it takes.
Speaker 3:She's got the endorsement of Cavill, you know, and Henry Cavill and I think this eliminated two Batman movies with Michael Keaton the Brave and the Bold, which people who know the animated Batman know that already. And then there was another Batman movie that Keaton was going to be in and apparently those are gone because of this. Now, I had no issues with Michael Keaton, no, I loved seeing him back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for us, as so many people, to not just be on nostalgic for that. I mean, if you watch, there's a lot of documentaries you can watch on the making of the film. There's one that was like an hour and a half or something.
Speaker 3:Oh, have you seen that? Yeah, oh, ok, because you know I am going to get the disc for this.
Speaker 2:Which I have?
Speaker 3:I have Suicide Squad, I have the other terrible movies.
Speaker 2:You don't need to make apologies. This is right. All in all, this is a good film and right. It's suffered from things that were certainly, you know, to a certain degree, I say outside the cast control. It was more about I mean, can we, can we have flash go back and maybe a race when James Gunn was part of this whole universe?
Speaker 3:I mean, you know he, he had his fingers on the button so well it's a whole.
Speaker 2:It's part of the reason why you see spoiler alert here, so put up a spoiler. If you haven't seen the flash yet, go watch it. Come back and watch this episode of the O Brother podcast, but it's why you see George Clooney show up at the end of the film. Right, right, that's just one of the influences are in, but now I wasn't as critical of that as I've heard a lot of people.
Speaker 3:Oh, really no, I wish you that at all. It was funny.
Speaker 2:I love seeing George back, because you see this.
Speaker 3:And he knows, I thought it was Affleck.
Speaker 2:He knows his Batman gets on all the time. Right Now he's not the worst of them.
Speaker 3:No, you got Val, you know let's you know, you know, I didn't have a problem with him, but that movie was awful. You know that the two shoe marker and RIP was that?
Speaker 2:was that with the one with Mr Freeze? Was that with Arnold? That was the fourth one.
Speaker 3:Okay, that was the one with Clooney. Yes, okay, when they opened on ice skates.
Speaker 2:Now this one. You know you talk about screen time and characters. What? Not mean I mean, you know we there was. There was certainly at least one different ending. You know that we were going to get here, but you know, all this confluence of events I don't know how much you can break it down, but we're like with Gal Gadot and, and even Affleck and Cavill, of course, that was the first one that was out there and then there was a big announcement that was shocked the world. Right Like right.
Speaker 2:Cavill comes out on his own Instagram account announcing he's coming back, and just before you know it, James and even though I think this kid that they've got slated to come, maybe able to bring the goods, but I just I will always love Henry Cavill. I think everybody does. But he deserved at least the second movie right, but they all got basically written out of the universe because yeah, and was a Peter Saffron or whatever. They want to go in a totally different direction.
Speaker 3:You know, the irony of that was the final sequence where anybody that played a character, starting with the original George Reeves, who did Superman on the TV show, nicholas Cage Nicholas Cage ends it.
Speaker 2:One of the great nods to a Superman we never got, of course, right which was going to be Tim Burton.
Speaker 3:And first, you know whatever reason they. You know this the studio hated Batman Returns because it was so dark and he wanted to go darker.
Speaker 2:For the third Penguin's a tough character. It is a tough character, but he's a penguin, a human penguin, and when you see Danny DeVito munching on a raw fish, but I think you've- but I think you've seen, with the movie the Batman right, that you've seen how it can be done in a different way, in a way that could be a little bit more. But you know, it's Tim Burton, he's over the top, he's fantastic.
Speaker 3:You know it's, that's his one. Oh, it was funny because he was slated to do three. He shows up and he said he, you know, read the room. It was clear they did. They were like Tim, don't you want to do something more light, like you know, one of those Pee Wee, herman things and and Burton's kind of like. Maybe you guys want to go with someone else One of his first films, didn't?
Speaker 2:he did Pee Wee, he did Pee Wee Top, or whatever. Right yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was one of his early films, not his first. Wasn't Johnny Depp scissor hands before that?
Speaker 2:I think so it might have been. I'm not sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, with Winona Ryder in it.
Speaker 2:Now this one goes back. I mean, this was in development way back in the early 2000s and the flash, yeah, the flash. And you know you like James Wan speaking of our Halloween festival, like you're a big fan of James Wan. You're always giving him his props.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he was attached to this at one point, and you know all this stuff is happening and he ends up choosing Aquaman, which maybe not James's greatest decision, no One of the worst films ever, in my opinion, as I've said on the show before, and I stand by that and we did get an appearance from Jason Momoa at the end of this as well as Aquaman, right? You know, one of the cameos I loved the best was his father, arthur Sr, or whatever, played by Tamara Morrison, who, of course, plays Boba Fett in the book of Boba Fett.
Speaker 3:Oh, OK, I didn't know that was his dad.
Speaker 2:Prequel series. Yeah yeah, and so he's in it too. It's a couple of funny. I mean, there's so many nods in this film it's hard to keep up. I'm sure I missed half of them too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the whole ending was just a nod to every character you could. That was in the DC universe.
Speaker 2:Things like this. This is the stuff I love. Ok, first of all, seeing the Batmobile, the 1989 Batmobile was just mind blowing. The cave they built for this film was amazing, right and the. You know they even had a reference at one point that was a callback to the laugh of Nicholson the Joker, the bag that had the little yeah, correct, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like unbelievable. Yeah, so they did a good job of paying homage to a lot of that Right.
Speaker 3:And some people didn't like that ending that showed all the different characters. I thought it was fine. I thought it was cool. It was very colorful and with each color kind of came a new character Right.
Speaker 2:I had no problem with it and the whole the dark flash, that whole story Right. Like I bought into it, I was with it yeah.
Speaker 3:And I'm like who is that? You know, like right, you don't know right till the end of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's going on there? I like Sasha, uh, callie, you know a superwoman like her. You know, given where we find her in the in the early part of the film when we first come upon her right, she's been held captive and all this stuff and, and they think they're going to rescue Superman, when, and I couldn't tell who it was it they look like?
Speaker 2:what's his face from? From Lord of the Rings, a golem? Yeah, what was going so dark? But what I liked about her portrayal, as you said, and what little we may have gotten in the film right arguably was.
Speaker 2:You know she's, she's playing it as, and, of course, if you go back into the sort of comic history you know storyline where she's actually grew up and krypton like she grew up, right, she, she identifies herself very much as an alien, as opposed to Superman, as Clark, who very much identifies with the human species. Correct, right, because he came here as a baby and so she has this just incredible anger built up in her. Well, I mean, she was seen or turns odd was amazing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she was tortured for years and they were trying to get because they're cousins, right? She's actually a man's cousin, that's right. And they're trying to get her to give his location right and she won't give it up. So she gets tortured until they break her out. And they think they're breaking out Superman and the kind of gag is like that's not him, who's that?
Speaker 2:right, she can kick some serious ass though.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and Mike Shannon another character wasn't in it enough?
Speaker 2:No, he wasn't, and you know I had that was another one little money or little, like his voice as odd, didn't seem quite the same as, yeah, his original portrayal of it, I don't know. But you know what I love and we should never look past the fact that, like we're great worth, we should be thankful that these actors are still healthy and well, not that it's been a hundred years, but right, even going to man of steel, it's been how many years? Right, and you're still here and he's able to come back and I was great, yeah, yeah, look, great, yeah.
Speaker 3:And you know Michael Keaton obviously you know they either died is here or you know, he looked whatever they did to make them look them older.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and see, I didn't pick up when I was watching it that there's I mean they, there's references to, you know, his actual original, the Wayne Manor the ancient back in there with the floor, the tiles on the floor right member, where he has all of those. You know what is it?
Speaker 3:the Armor, mm-hmm, you know those armor, whatever yeah, who's the comic that was in it that I hated in?
Speaker 2:the oh yes.
Speaker 3:What's his name? Robert?
Speaker 2:Robert wool boom nailed it, see together.
Speaker 3:It's why we make it's the other podcast.
Speaker 2:You get the first, I get the last you know that you know the history of Cyborg in relationship to this whole thing and right talk about, talk about DC going now we're good, right, right, this guy, this guy, this actor tries to take a stand and like I'll come back if x, y, z's got all these terms. They're like we're good, good. I'm sorry, right, which I never cared for that character anyway.
Speaker 3:No, and I didn't know him from the comics now. I did, I did.
Speaker 2:I didn't care.
Speaker 3:That's what's gonna happen to Ezra Miller. He's getting that treatment now and I think.
Speaker 2:I hope that's not true because, first of all, now 2022, I clearly was not a good year for Ezra Miller. I mean, if you read all of the incidents, it is. Longer than the lineage of how this film came to be yeah a long ways. Yeah, and if there's we saw some of it on TMZ, of course, of course, and again I you know I want to be sensitive to it, but you know we haven't really heard anything from them recently, certainly. Now there was a quick Didn't they appear? But then they weren't.
Speaker 3:They didn't do press but they appeared at the premiere, I believe, of the flash he was at the premiere but Just kind of gave a hello yeah, enjoy the film. They kept him off the mic. They've issued an apology.
Speaker 2:They, from what we know, are seeking help, and you know from from you know little experience I have and just everything I've read. Yeah, we're dealing with some very serious issues, it seems like, and yeah, but you know what else we're dealing with.
Speaker 3:Is a guy, let's say you know 68 chomping a cigar going. We lost a hundred million dollars in that thing. There's no question, kid, but he isn't the reason why no, I agree, he's the reason I said it back then.
Speaker 2:Very, you know, I was interestingly like let's, let's real quick. I wanted to pull this up, so let's talk about this. So rotten tomatoes.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Okay for what it's worth, until the O brother rating system hits the airwaves here soon. Right, the critics have it at a 63 and then the audience score is at an 83 right, so the audience likes it as we do mm-hmm the critics and there, but you know and it showed up on on, you know max pretty quick.
Speaker 2:So what do you? I don't know. I don't think this is an ease. I don't think this is a super easy decision for the studio to make. Quite frankly, I don't Well, I think it's already made you make the best point right. At the end of the day, all they care about is the money correct and this thing tanked. It lost a ton of money right, millions of dollars by the projection so right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it would be hard to get around that, but can we think of, can you think of any other example of that where maybe they did continue on after such a A bomb like that? I honestly, I can't, I can't think of why are we getting an Aquaman sequel? That was a well wrecked but you know so did it make money? I think it made money. Did it make money?
Speaker 3:I think it you know it definitely cleared the hundred million mark, I think in the opening weekend. Yeah and I remember watching flash Numbers and I had seen it Mm-hmm, so I was expect. Even I was like wow, you know what?
Speaker 2:and I think you're right, because, as I look at this, let's see here, I'm very curious.
Speaker 3:remember the studio yank this out of theaters so quick Because they had their savior, which was Indiana Jones. What's also tanked, see?
Speaker 2:this is amazing to me. It's absolutely flabbergasting to me like, but help me understand this, please. Okay, so the budget on Aquaman was less. It was a hundred and sixty million estimated. Right. It opens at less than 70 million All right. It has grossed the date us over 300 million. Worldwide gross 1.1 billion dollars. So look at, look at the international take on this. Now, what do you make of that domestic, you know, is that a super box office hit?
Speaker 1:or no.
Speaker 2:That's about what we expect?
Speaker 3:No, but it's you know Well, I have a million dollars easy right at the end of the day they don't really care, they're counting on that overseas money. And flash didn't do it. Now, okay, that's did do better money than it did in the in the United States the domestic take was a hundred nine. Yeah and the international was like 150 right. But, still, yes, look at Aquaman. Oh, much worse movie, much worse.
Speaker 2:Did over a billion, but you would chalk it up to the controversies. Yeah, but, but. But okay though. But hold on, mm-hmm. People went and saw it the spot, or did that prevent people from even going seeing it is, I Didn't well clearly, right, clearly, the second week they yanked it.
Speaker 3:They pulled it out of, like it was in 3600 theaters. They pulled it out of 3,000 theaters, right, so there was. It was impossible for it to make the kind of money that it might have made.
Speaker 2:It's amazing it took them a couple of months to get it to to to max.
Speaker 3:Right, be honest with you, and it got there fast. I mean, it's been at max for a good month, I think yeah, but where was, was it such a dog in the theater?
Speaker 2:He thought it was boom. Okay, and a June.
Speaker 3:Let's get it, yeah, well it kind of like that to me I it's taken a long time to get to disk, but that's got to do with production and yeah, you know, getting you know.
Speaker 2:There's only so many factories that produce Right blue rays and 4k's but you know, I don't know, I mean I don't think this is the reason in of itself, but you had a bunch of director changes. This thing changed hands more than I mean. It was crazy right before it gets to Andy to direct it.
Speaker 3:Well, look at you like, let's use you as an example. You know, no, I'm talking as a fan, right as a movie fan. Right, you weren't out there the opening weekend and really had little interest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, it's interesting because if I, if I have to sit and analyze that I, you would think the Keaton bit would have been enough for me Right to go and when we watch the first look Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:And we saw Keaton and we saw him say I'm Batman. Yeah, we were like okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can see myself going to that. But again, those that have seen it, I think it's good right. I mean an 83 is a decent rating for whatever that's worth. So yeah, I look there's. You know there's a lot of tentacles.
Speaker 2:Yes to this, to a review of more than docock has and we could go on for another three hours, go going into all you know, drilling down and going down the rabbit hole, but I was really, really I just wanted to get on here and put that statement out there for me, anyways, that this thing it's a quote, a phrase we love it didn't fail because of Ezra Miller. In my opinion, he, his performance was fantastic, and I said it back when I mean thought, think of the complexities of the different personalities he had to play Mm-hmm in this film.
Speaker 2:And then all the delays, and just you know, I don't know.
Speaker 3:And even you know, it was so when he, when he's sitting there talking to his parents and he fought, and he first realizes, oh my god, there's another, me here when he sees himself right and he goes and he kind of tackles himself on the front lawn yeah and you really see two different characters. I mean, you do I.
Speaker 2:He looked at a friend.
Speaker 3:I thought it's hair, it was a whole look Well, that's his add, that's the acting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we need to give it up. I it's um, you know, look, I've not gone to acting school. You've had more training in that than I have. I've gone to like an acting class, but that's no small feat. No, my estimation. I just think he pulled it off. They pulled it off brilliantly. So I just want to go on record is saying it was a really good performance. That is not why this film is considered a flop. And you know, and again this thing and you chop that first 20 minutes.
Speaker 2:You chop that. First 20 minutes you got a good movie right, and this started production in like 2020, early 2020, pre-covid of course, and it was another one impacted by that, among other things that we've talked about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it goes way back. I mean the television show the flash, which was on the CW. They're the ones that Take all the DC franchises and try to make them into shows. Yeah and you know, usually keep them on the air for like five years too long. Yeah, yeah but back when they were making that first season Right, this was in production and they did, I think, nine seasons.
Speaker 2:And right exactly 2000 to 2007, 2008 matter of fact, I Believe, if I have it correctly, which again to connect it to something current, which is the current writers and actors strike, right, the writer strike of 2007, 2008 Was another factor in this whole thing which is, I think, had something to do with James Wan Choosing to go in a different direction. Yeah, go to Aquaman, you know so.
Speaker 3:I can't remember. I wanted you to see it. Just to point out, the Clooney yeah, oh, is it really Batman, I remember is like can I tell you one thing about it? Yeah, and you were like no, I'll see it, I'll see it.
Speaker 2:Clooney still like Drinking from the fountain of youth. Whatever's going on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the dude looks great, I had the white hair go. He's the white hair, but he's a, he's a silver fox. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Well, mike, listen, I'm totally down to go haves on the physical slash digital purchase here, cuz there was a digital in it.
Speaker 3:This is this is one that I would have no shame and have in the extras are a lot of Batman stuff that I want to see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, yeah Well.
Speaker 2:so what do you think? Was this worth the surprise Episode, or what?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think so. I mean, I wanted to talk about it way back when, yeah, and it it was off my radar. But when you started saying I saw something that you mentioned a couple months ago, right, I Instantly kind of went there I thought did he see flash? I think he finally saw flash.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we, we. So you've heard what we think, we want to hear what you think, so have you. If you've seen the flash, drop us some comments on the YouTube video.
Speaker 3:Did you not? Go because of the controversy.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Let us know when you stand with the whole Ezra Miller storyline. You know that'd be very curious to know if that had any impact whatsoever.
Speaker 3:And I'm no fan of Ezra Miller's, but I'm not. I thought he did. I thought he did a fine job.
Speaker 2:You're not condoning the the personal behavior right in the media, but again. Let's reiterate that clearly. It seems to have been influenced by you know some serious kind of mental health.
Speaker 3:Ironically and I don't know if you saw this clip on TMZ he's getting arrested and they're putting his stuff in like a bag, which you know. They take everything off you, right, and the only thing he's freaking out about is his flash ring.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that. You see that I see the cops.
Speaker 3:Can you be careful with that ring? That ring means a lot to me and you know that. You know another irony to point out, yeah yeah for telling perhaps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, Well listen. There's your episode on the flash from the O Brother podcast. Better, late than never.
Speaker 3:Catch it on max right now?
Speaker 2:Right now, yeah, absolutely, and is it? You said it's out already. When is it hit on physical media?
Speaker 3:It's out already on physical. Okay, all right, so I pick it up on 4k.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think after this we're gonna talk about little purchase. I'll send you some PayPal, all right, make that deal happen, all right, all right. Well, that's gonna do it for another episode of the O Brother podcast, when your host, dan Smith, longside me, as always, my brother from the same mother, mike Smith, and we will see you next time. Bye everyone. Well, mike, let's run out of here.
Speaker 3:I'm already going.
