Oh Brother
Real brothers, Reel Talk: Dan & Mike Smith cover film, TV, & artist interviews 🍿📺🎤
My brother Mike and I launched the “Oh Brother” podcast in 2020. The show’s primary objective is to share our enthusiasm for film and cinema in an informative and entertaining way. We also enjoy interviewing artists with diverse backgrounds in film and television who work both in front of and behind the scenes.
We invite you to join us each week and follow the podcast so you never miss an episode. We’d love to hear from you, so email us or text us some fan mail to share your feedback on the show!
Oh Brother
Revisiting Batman 1989: Celebrating 35 Years of Michael Keaton's Dark Knight
Remember the excitement and controversy of 1989 when Michael Keaton was cast as Batman? We sure do, and in this episode, we're taking you back to that pivotal year in film history. From the uproar over Keaton's casting to the iconic trailer that won fans' hearts, we share personal memories of opening night and the cultural buzz that surrounded this groundbreaking film. You'll also hear about the evolution of movie marketing and how it has changed since then. Plus, we'll dive into the various home video releases, including a stunning 4K restoration, as we celebrate the 35th anniversary of Tim Burton's visionary take on the Dark Knight.
Ever wondered how Michael Keaton managed in that cumbersome Batman costume or how Jack Nicholson negotiated an unprecedented financial deal for his role as the Joker? This episode reveals those behind-the-scenes stories and more. We talk about the casting changes involving Kim Basinger and Sean Young, and the humor that added a unique charm to the film without tipping into campiness. You'll also hear our take on the memorable performances, from Keaton to Nicholson, and even a comparison between Nicholson's Joker and Heath Ledger's darker portrayal. Danny Elfman's iconic score and the fascinating blend of his compositions with Prince's tracks get their fair share of attention too.
As we prepare to celebrate our fifth year of podcasting, we reflect on Batman 1989's lasting impact and its iconic scenes. From Jack Nicholson's unforgettable moments to Kim Basinger's grounding presence as Vicki Vale, we discuss why the film stood strong on its own without needing a sequel. Although we lament missed opportunities with characters like Billy Dee Williams' Harvey Dent, we fondly recall the film's release and its significance over the past 35 years. Join us for a trip down memory lane as we add this engaging discussion to the Oh Brother podcast vaults.
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Welcome to the O'Brother Podcast with hosts Dan and Mike Smith, brothers from the same mother with different opinions on movies, tv, video games and more, plus celebrity interviews. Get ready, get set, it's time for the O'Brother Podcast. Welcome to the O'Brother Podcast. I'm your host, dan Smith, alongside me, as always, my brother from the same mother, mike Smith. How's it going tonight, dan? It's going good man, it's. What is it today? July 13th 2024, we're recording this episode, mike. A little walk down the memory lane, a little history lesson here, okay, first to start off with so Berlin Wall comes down. George HW Bush is sworn in as president.
Speaker 1:Rain man wins Best Picture one of our favorite films. The Calgary Flames win the Stanley Cup cup, I think the first time maybe in franchise history and and wow.
Speaker 2:Canada hasn't won a stanley cup in 30 years we're getting there.
Speaker 1:Menendez brothers ring a bell we don't have to go into the details, but Google it, folks. The Dalai Lama wins the Nobel Peace Prize. Mike the Game Boy is released in April.
Speaker 2:That's right 89.
Speaker 1:Right, yep, and, most important of all, I turned 17. Do the math, folks? Wow, but we're not here to talk about any of that. We are here to talk about it. Yeah, and you're older than me, so there you go. Huh. So we're here to talk about something else, a pretty monumental event that took place in 1989, june 23rd of 1989, to be exact and that, of course, mike, was the release of the original Batman film starring Michael Keaton. I'm Batman, I'm.
Speaker 2:Batman. This is probably my most purchased Between this and Back to the Future. I've bought it so many times, so many editions. Like if you look back here, all four deluxe editions Of just the 89. Well, that's all four. That's all four, but the 89 in particular. But I also have bought the Nolan releases several times.
Speaker 1:Right, it's a great trilogy. You know the one thing about this, now I was. There was a lot of hype, a lot of anticipation for this film in 1989. Yes, and so much so that, like the merchandise was out, or like the t-shirts were all over the place, a place, were you in florida yet?
Speaker 2:no, okay, I was in line on a friday night in june to go see batman and and I went opening night as well in orlando I had just bought my house and the cable was 11.99. Oh boy. For like you know unlimited channels.
Speaker 1:You can't even buy a cable for $11 now.
Speaker 2:And there was a TV station, which I think was still there when you moved, called Movie Time. Oh, that's right, and all they did was play movie trailers. You know, all day, 24, 7, that's all it was. I think it became wasn't that else.
Speaker 1:It had this, this iterate, like it. It evolved into like talk soup and then something like that, like comedy central or there's some ah, that's remember that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Holy shit, yeah so but I loved it when it was movie time, and especially around 89, because we've got Batman, which was an iconic, probably the most iconic trailer of its time.
Speaker 1:Well, and here's the thing about that is, is you know if you look into any of the extras or the makings of the documentaries? Yes, there was like, first of all, when they, when they announced that Keaton was going to be.
Speaker 2:Oh man.
Speaker 1:Now, this was filmed in Pinewoods which is in London and it's a Pinewood studio studio. Yeah, star Wars Hello.
Speaker 2:Exactly with studio, studio, yeah, star wars hello, exactly, and so they were.
Speaker 1:You know, cell phones weren't a thing, yet nobody. Internet wasn't a thing right. So there was all this blowback when keaton because he had just done beetlejuice with tim burton- and he had just done clean and sober, which you and I have talked about doing a review on which I think we need to get to at some point, but anyways, so we were excited with the choice.
Speaker 2:But man was there, blowback from the comic. People Correct His jaw wasn't right. He couldn't possibly portray Batman, the Dark Knight, the physicality and all that, and then the trailer comes out.
Speaker 1:Right well, and this is why they get the trailer pushed out.
Speaker 2:Yes, to settle down some of this fervor that's going on about it and you know, tim burton makes one of the best trailers of all time. Still to this day, I watch it. I get goosebumps. When michael keaton first grabs that guy and pulls him and says who are you? Yeah, what are you?
Speaker 1:I'm a bad man yeah, so many, so many great lines, yeah so june 23rd 1989, so we're celebrating the 35th anniversary. This was right. We decided to come on and do this and and it was a good excuse to see it again. I don't know when I last watched it from start to finish. Now I watched the 4K digital, which was good, not great. It's not the best digital 4K I've seen.
Speaker 2:Same with the 4k. It's not one of the best restorations, if it even is a restaurant. This might be one of those 35 millimeter scans which isn't true hdr.
Speaker 1:Yeah, although I watched it the ending sequence, which is very, I mean the. The whole film is dark for the most part. Yes, you know from the cinematography. But the, uh, the, the ending sequence, in that belfry and all that, I mean that looks really nice, it looks until the joker falls. Cgi wasn't a thing, well I just mean in terms of the 4k, the you know it's okay, it's been.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know even though there's a lot of shadows and it's dark, it's, it's. You can make it out. It's very crisp. But yeah, it's funny. You mentioned that the very first shot of batman that we get in this is this terrible. It's not as bad as the joker. When you mentioned the correct and and I don't know was that. Have you seen that that was intentional in any of the documentaries? Has there been any commentary about that?
Speaker 2:I listened to the commentary by burton while I watched it because I've seen it so many times. Did he comment on it? Didn't comment on it because it's it's so animated. Commented on the joker at the end falling, but he didn't win not how it looks see it's like a, it's like somebody scribbling. Well, it's a cartoon, it's animated right, it's literally in it and it's the top of access chemicals. But then we see this grand entrance with these giant wings and him descending in the smoke.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like a noir, yeah shadows and like, yeah, the noir, uh, yeah but you know that I I forgave that opening shot because the next shot of him was so good well, the, the opening shot of batman isn't so bad because it's it's an overhead shot, it's very distant and he, you know, but you can tell it's it's animated. But speaking of that, that, you know there are. This is very heavily dependent on practical effects, like, yeah, the use of models back then, which you know, I mean I could spot that back in the day, like even with superman, you know that that was a very common practice at that time and you see that in this, like the ending sequence where the, the bat wing crashes into the steps, right, that's a whole sequence done with models.
Speaker 2:Exactly. But it looks cool, it's very I thought it looked good.
Speaker 1:you know, considering that and you know what, there was a lot of stunt doubles and not once did I believe that wasn't michael keaton exactly, and there's some cool again, speaking of, like the, the, the practical sort of stunt work that's done in this film. I didn't realize how much of it was kind of bordering on martial arts, like there's one sequence in the belfry where he literally kind of gets in this sort of right, you know, to defend himself, and it's pretty cool. Some of the kicks and all of that talk about um, because we mentioned keaton and the criticism there. Burton wasn't some huge success at this point either.
Speaker 2:No, beetle juice was a hit mild, hit, mild, hit, mild. But he thinks, according to him, that if beetlejuice had done it poorly he'd he'd have been pulled and he was pulled from three. He was set to make batman three right well, and he got yanked because they thought batman returns was too dark and I think in some cases that's the better of the two films mike's favorite penguin, danny devito.
Speaker 1:It's so nasty he was so nasty that it was so good, so hideous and that I mean that's what made that character so good but what I wanted you to talk about with Burton is the opening sequence, that very opening title sequence with the symbol oh right, which is the symbol, the Batman symbol, and he's getting into the dark recesses of it.
Speaker 2:People couldn't tell what it was. Yeah, you don't know what it is, yeah, until it backs off. Right, right, he, he talked about that.
Speaker 1:He said you know, I wanted to set a message from the start, with the titles that this was going to be the dark knight, the dark batman which is, which is, you know, of course, bob kane, uh, rest in peace, you know that's. That was his version of that. He was.
Speaker 2:He was on the set for almost the whole shoot.
Speaker 1:Well, and you've. And there was a I don't know if you know, there's a little nod to him in the film. Uh, there's a sequence where, uh, robert wool, who we'll talk about, comes into the the newsroom and they're the guys are goofing on him because he's so obsessed with this story about a bat that's terrorizing, whatever, and they hand him this cartoon that somebody drew and if you look vampire, the signature is bob kane. I didn't notice that I did not pick up.
Speaker 2:Well all these years and I'm yeah, it's a good little tip of the hat.
Speaker 1:Yeah to him. But yeah, you're right that that that opening sequence is so profound and you don't know what it is until it's revealed, but his directing throughout is spectacular. What I was going to say when you mentioned Bob Kane is the campiness of the 60s TV show gets way away from that, of course, with Adam West, and know that version of batman again, which I love, which I love.
Speaker 2:I'm right, and and he did too, burton was a big fan he's about my age, right, and he was a big fan of the tv show, but he wanted to make sure that he set the tone that this wasn't campy, this wasn't going to be. You know, and with michael keaton, at that time, a lot of people didn't see clean and sober. You and I were ahead of the curve. Yeah, I think you had the laser disc of clean and sober. I did, and I and I bought it recently on dvd because there's no blu-ray or four, you did.
Speaker 1:You didn't tell me, you picked it up.
Speaker 2:That's I did. I bought it because we were talking about doing the episode.
Speaker 1:We're going to do the episode on that for sure, but we knew he had these dramatic chops.
Speaker 2:but people knew him from his comic stuff Right, and the most recent being Beetlejuice. But even before that he was kind of always a goofy kind of like tom hanks. I always confused the two of them early in their career because they had the similar roles yeah, that's a good well bosom buddies right bosom buddies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've had great comedy, um. You know. The other thing I liked about it too was he kind of sets it in this time period that you don't really know when it is right it's the 50s at the 70s. Where is it? Where are we?
Speaker 1:you know, you don't know which is great, it doesn't, it doesn't all done on purpose yeah, it doesn't doesn't tie it down any particular period, which is, which is great because it makes it timeless. You know, um the um, uh, we talked about bob kane, um, some of the audio. I thought some of the the dubbing was kind of bad in spots I don't know if you pick up on that and this is definitely back when they were still using and I know they still do today, maybe not to the same degree, but Foley artists where they're, you know they've got a pair of shoes on their hands for like a clickety clack horse.
Speaker 1:You know, there was clearly some of that going on, but I I just found there was something with the sound design that was a little odd to me yeah, well, did you pick up on that?
Speaker 2:I I didn't, to be honest, um, and I haven't in the past, so it's never been an issue. But you know, I do know michael keaton couldn't hear. It was like it was like communicating with somebody who was deaf because the mask and his whole costume was so uncomfortable and so heavy. Yeah, so he didn't know what he sounded like until he saw the dailies, you know. So even he wasn't sure what batman actually he. But tim burton feels like the costume gave him the voice kind of came from when he got into it and there was all the issues where he couldn't. There was no zipper, right, so he had to get totally undressed if he just had to pee, right. But, um, and you know, you got to talk about jack nicholson, the first one who signed on for the deal, and he knew he, he says he knew this was going to be big.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know, everybody else seemed to be kind of running around scrambling. We're making a film, you hope it's going to be great, but he knew this was going to be almost otherworldly, you know and he's out there he tells a funny story of being at like the Oscars or something, and he's in the restroom, you know, on a break, you know, and he's yucking it up with I think Jack Valenti is the person he mentions and he's just saying how big this thing's going to be. You know, and didn't he cut a?
Speaker 2:deal Nicholson yes, to get paid. Every time a Batman movie was released, he gets paid. Oh, I believe that, yeah, yeah. I mean he cut a deal where you know he's still got a pretty good paycheck. I think Keaton got 5 million, so you got to think nicholson got more. But the rights and the, the back end he got was like nobody had ever gotten before right, well, I mean david jack nicholson.
Speaker 1:He was right, more than well established at that point. Which, and the perfect? You couldn't think of a better actor at the time no uh, and it's interesting when you go back and watch these films, especially those in the 80s. This is, of course, at the end of the decade, but you know, just to see the kind of uh uh, historical, you know um uh footprint of who was big at the time kim basinger, you know, as vicky right she came on after the filming started.
Speaker 2:She was a very late arrival to this right, it was um.
Speaker 1:Uh, who was the the um? From no way out with kevin. Yeah, sean sean young, sean young, and she got in some like horse riding accident or something yes, and then she begged to come back as cat woman. Yes but they had already cast michelle pfeiffer right, didn't she show up at the, she showed up at place office, yeah office.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I remember her on a tv show coming out dressed as cat woman, you know, lobbying. All right, it's like it's done. There's a great.
Speaker 1:She got obsessive about it michelle pfeiffer, of course, like just a kill, that own that role, that scene. If you look up on youtube you can see the video of her with the whip and all the heads one take, it's just she really hit the head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's amazing, it wasn't amazing you know, I thought that was effects yeah, it's wild and she gets like this.
Speaker 1:You know, standing ovation, round of applause, right crew people. You know, right the um, yeah, nicholson, that initial laugh of his. You know, there's times where I feel like he's and maybe he said this or you, you heard this since the documentaries where I gotta believe there's spots where he's tipping the hat to caesar romero it wasn't mentioned, but you know it was so obvious and all those sounds like he would just make these sounds and burton was like I just went with it.
Speaker 2:But it's jack nicholson, it's like trust me it's somehow it fit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like uh, is that you sugar bumps? Right, you know? Yeah, it's me sugar bumps. You know, that's the thing. There was humor in the film throughout, yeah, you know, but it never. It never got campy, as you mentioned earlier, like it didn't go there, but it was there was a lot of comedy.
Speaker 2:This was the first big comic movie, you know, after Superman. Yeah, and even Superman was, you know, I don't know a little camp, at least in the latter two, the first two.
Speaker 1:I really love. Oh, yeah, love the second one too, yeah. Me too, I almost like the second one more than the first one.
Speaker 2:And if you're going to watch those, watch the Donner cut of two, right, it's much better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like this whole thing where Heath Jack, heath Jack.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I would never even pick. They're very different interpretations of that character.
Speaker 2:Right In a very different movies. Stylistically, if it was released today, he'd have been up for an oscar probably would have been the third winner as the joker.
Speaker 1:The only thing they won, I think, was like set direction or some like that yeah, and I know danny elfman was.
Speaker 2:You know he did um dick tracy. I always thought dick tracy came first no, that was the other way around. It came the next year yeah, warren baby with Warren Beatty. And about every star in Hollywood, including Al Pacino and James Caan, were unrecognizable in their roles.
Speaker 1:That was a lot of fun shouting thing at the end of the table and dick tracy that scene that pacino has yeah you remember, I forget I'm thinking of gary oldman in the professional for some reason, when he says bring me everyone, everyone, right everyone.
Speaker 2:You know that's confusing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, big, he played big boy. A big boy, that's right. Yeah, great, that's one of's one of his best, that's a great one. So, mike, we were recently talking about Fritz Lang. Funny enough, because you know, you know Fritz Lang, mike, he did Megalopolis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, I bet that one screwed up Right, metropolis, of course, and FW Murnau with Nosferatu, which we just did a first look on that too a while back, um, but it was funny. I don't know, in your study of film of you would come across this concept of the dutch angle, the, the canted angle, where in this film, throughout 85 of it probably, it's that you know where the camera is kind of tilted on its axis, correct, and it gives us this really sort of unbalanced, creates tension.
Speaker 2:And you go back to the, to the TV show. They did it to an extreme Right that it made it sort of campy Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sort of got it. It was the heyday was like in the 20s, 30s.
Speaker 2:The monster movies did it a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah day was like in the 20s, 30s. The german movies did it a lot. Yeah, yeah, and, like you said, it was tension like nosferatu, dracula, you know films like that but I was just didn't really sort of hit me as much as it did during this rewatch. I was like, wow, he's really leaning into that heavy throughout this film. You know, it mentioned obviously burton, uh tim burton directing, and then it was uh screenplay co-written by warren's uh scarron and sam ham, who, sam ham kind of leaves the project at some point. I don't think he finishes it out. It wasn't like what, what ends up on film was not his full original concept, right? Um?
Speaker 2:I know that, you know burton keeps talking about. You know the issues because this is like still in the studio days almost, where warner brothers is checking in looking over his shoulder. You know giving him notes, you know all this concern from the comic community and blah blah, blah, which that leads to him getting a trailer out there very early in the production Right and think about how good that trailer is.
Speaker 1:Trailer is great. I mentioned Warren Skerrin. He died in December 1990, like shortly after the release of the film. He had also had writing writing credits for beetlejuice and beverly hills, cop 2, which we've just been talking about. Beverly hills, cop 2 recently, um, the cinematography was a roger pratt who did some of the harry potter films. Uh, he did mary shelley's frankenstein and that came out like the 90s 12 monkeys. This was interesting. So the editing and there was a, there was a few edits that when you've seen the film as many times as we have, correct, and I haven't entered his eye, I feel like like I'm a stickler for that sort of stuff. You pick up on these things. Yes, um, the editor was ray lovejoy, who you must stop. Well, okay, the second stop. The second it's he doesn't. He's not even saying anything, right?
Speaker 2:so tell him what you're talking about yeah I'm talking. There's a scene where the the batmobile is driving itself and he has a little remote. He holds it up and he says stop, and the car stops within an inch of him. But the problem is he holds it up and then he puts it down and then, when they go back to the shot of it stopping, he's got it up again.
Speaker 1:So that was a bad edit well, and I don't know if you're talking about. There's what he does it again later at axis chemicals or something, and there's no sound, there's no him saying stop. It's just yes, yes, it's so bizarre that's all in the same sequence right, okay, but ray lovejoy um was the editor on dr strange love, wow, 2001, kubrick, two aliens, wow.
Speaker 2:And the shining with jack nicholson three kubricks, wow, wow, it's amazing, so he was probably, uh, like nicholson, probably was one of the guys that got him hired I, I'm thinking there had to be some sort of absolutely deal there. Yeah, because nicholson definitely had a say and Jack Palance actually scared Burton.
Speaker 1:Jack Palance is unbelievable.
Speaker 2:But he said at one point, Palance comes out of the bathroom and he's upset about something and he says to Burton, how many films you made? I've made over 100. He's trying to intimidate him.
Speaker 1:I was making films uh, with guys and bigger than you and my stool right. What is that saturday night live? That was, uh, that's a great late. Uh, phil hartman, who was?
Speaker 2:doing. That's right, was he?
Speaker 1:thanks, yeah, yeah what does he say? I've, uh, junaid o'connor. What's the line about chunks of guys like you, bigger than bigger? Yeah, chunks of guys bigger than you in my stool. Yeah, that's classic.
Speaker 2:Talk about danny elfman on this film, danny elfman. Again, he was with a band called oingo boingo. I don't know if people remember.
Speaker 1:You and me two of the only people. But point out the fact that he's not some household movie soundtrack guy at this point no he's a legit filmmaker and really the bigger story is Prince.
Speaker 2:Yes, because Prince gets hired and he's ticked off from the jump. He thinks he's doing the soundtrack right and it turns out like the way burton describes it he goes I didn't know what he was upset about, you know and then they started talking about a concept album, which they did, which they put out in fact I had?
Speaker 1:I had the cassette back when google it kids. I had the cassette of bat dance and I had all of that and there was a lot of the tracks yeah, they in fact, he used the tracks with the joker the opening the opening sequence of this batman it's prince.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's one of those songs, but all the, all the stuff, like when they're, when they're in, access chemicals and they open the safe. We've been ratted out here, boys, and then it goes. Watch it. It's almost like a choreographed dance to elfman's music. It's so good, um, but yeah, there was a big. That was a big issue. That prince was ticked off because he thought he was doing the soundtrack and danny elfman's credited as the soundtrack guy well, you need a score.
Speaker 2:I don't know that prince was going to do a score for the film well, I think the way he thinks of it, he was, yeah, okay, like it was going to be all his music yeah, and that's not the way from the jump that tim burton planned it I love the way it worked out and I and I and I don't dislike his tracks underneath in the film.
Speaker 1:It doesn't.
Speaker 2:I think it's good parade at the end with absolutely you know nicholson with the arms going just you know, and they're in london and it's in the winter and it's so it's believable, it's. It's cold and they look cold. Yes, they do. You see the breath coming out of nicholson, you know when he's up on the float.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, what I was surprised to see was the although I don't know what's your take on these scores, so we bring this up often on the podcast, but for what it's worth, okay, take it with a grain of salt, if you will. The IMDb Metascore 69. Wow For this movie shocking and and uh, rotten tomatoes 77 critics, 84 for the audience.
Speaker 1:So that's more in line, although I would still expect the audience to be a little bit higher than that but you know it's it surprised me and you know it surprised me and you know, here it is 35 years later and we get Keaton back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's shocking to me.
Speaker 1:What's the?
Speaker 2:Metascore 69.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's only like 21 reviews or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember Jay Boyar was the film critic for the Orlando Sentinel at the time film critic for the orlando sentinel at the time and I remember the day of the movie's opening, which is the day we both went it was a friday front page batman, five stars and he really got it. I mean it was one of the better reviews I've read, period you know well.
Speaker 1:Well, let's see, I mean it. The budget was about 35 million, it opened at 40 million opening week and it's it's grossed over 400 million.
Speaker 2:And I'm surprised it's not even higher Right. Yeah, me too, you know like this is one that would be. You know, they, they, they just missed it. They could have done a 35th anniversary release and some of this garbage that's in the theaters I know you know, take that out and put in some you know that.
Speaker 1:Well, the theaters do that. Occasionally they do. They're playing like, uh, the lion king that's right.
Speaker 2:That's right. The next disney you know is known for that talk about, if you can.
Speaker 1:The um because this was a pretty significant effect in the film was when nicholson, as the joker, has the skin tone like yes and he wipes it off to reveal the white from when he is disfigured in the vat of chemicals that access chemicals. So talk about. Do you recall how they achieved that?
Speaker 2:Because it was pretty sophisticated it was and it took about four hours to accomplish it, because in the makeup guy figured a way to do the white in like an almost an acrylic, um, so the, the tan or or you know, because it was kind of tan, it was kind of like, yeah, you know, yeah, so when he wiped it, you, it didn't go to the skin, it went to the white. But yeah, that was a lot of hours in the makeup chair that was that.
Speaker 2:That was an impressive effect and again leading to one of the bad, the big mistakes, when they reveal the Joker and he goes you know you can call me Joker and he moves into the light like a noir. And there's a purple stain from his jacket on his neck and they missed it. They just missed it.
Speaker 1:I forgot about it. I recall now that you say that, but I had forgotten about it. Um, yeah, you know it, there's still a comic aesthetic to the film, as I guess there should be. Right, that's where the character evolved. But, um, you know, like, there's the shootout at access, chemicals, the, the, the costuming of the cops in that scene and the way that burton stages them, it's almost like the, the rule of thirds, you know, and everything is positioned in such a way and yeah, just the directing it was massive, it was amazing it's not.
Speaker 1:It wasn't deeper into his catalog.
Speaker 2:It was so good you know right and know when Nicholson and Keaton are face to face for the first time in their characters. Well, Nicholson not yet, he was still Jack Napier. So they come face to face and you know, Keaton's holding them up, Right, and I guess a couple of times they just burst out laughing because of the costumes. Oh really, yeah, yeah, like yeah like you know, it was so silly to them.
Speaker 1:Nice, and at the time, you know, nobody had ever seen anything like this nice outfit he says there's so many, there's so many great lines, the one, one of the ones we love. There's a sequence when, uh, there's a, there's a press conference being held on the steps of gotham city hall, or whatever, billy d williams. Let's give a shout out to billy williams, who's still out there doing his thing, by the way. Much love to him yeah, love him.
Speaker 2:Of course he would have. He would have been in the third one with burton as two-face and he's of course, right.
Speaker 1:Well, that's exactly. I hate that we didn't get yeah, bill's, take on Two-Face. I would have loved it, because I'm not a huge fan of Aaron Eckhart's portrayal of it.
Speaker 2:I just don't love it. And I like Aaron Eckhart. It's not him, I liked him as Harvey Dent.
Speaker 1:I didn't like the Two-Face character. I don't know if that's his fault or if the makeup was too over the top or something. It his fault, or if I just the makeup was too over the top or something. I don't know, I didn't like it. It's funny that I mentioned that because it makes me think of in this film. Hey, eckhart, you know, think of the future, you know the character in this one, that's eckhart yeah he's the corrupt.
Speaker 2:You know, cop but um and and billy d williams tim burton talks about this would have been black and white, so what in his own skin color and what in and again.
Speaker 1:The duality is all over this movie and how batman and the joker are really the same person, the same side of of a coin, and you know that was going to be part of the future right, it's like this whole thing where you know bruce wayne is commenting on the joker he's insane, he's you know this, and that's like well, you're kind of in the same vein, like, yeah, someone could make a case about you. And and vicky vale is almost saying that, correct, yeah, she's almost kind of pointing that out and there's another.
Speaker 2:you know they broke some rules that didn't go over well. Number one the Joker turns out to be the killer of his parents. That's not in the comics.
Speaker 1:But I like it and in fact I'm glad you mentioned it because I want to make sure to mention it's a very brief sequence but I want to give love to this actor named Hugo Blick who plays the young Jack Napier Looks just like him, he looks just like him. It's a fantastic scene and it's just so. The line is so well delivered because it's a callback at that point, correct, to Nicholson saying it Go back and watch that sequence, folks. It's just so riveting. It's one of my favorites and it's like a minute, it's very quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but he was great and I didn't realize that jack napier like this is the first time that that name is introduced as his full character name. It's not, yes, jack napier in the comics, which I guess it's a takeoff on um jack and apes the word jack and apes but also a tip of the hat, I guess, to alan napier who played alfred in the 60s tv show, which I didn't realize yeah, and, and nothing was said in the commentary, but I always wonder that when I see napier in the in the, you know, in the what's the connection?
Speaker 2:correct. Yeah, and the other, the other big rule that really ticked off the comic people which, like burton, says he could not go to conventions because he would get so much grief about these rules that he broke the one I just mentioned. Another one vicky vale walking into the bat cave, hello, okay you know, that's one of the things.
Speaker 1:Sam ham is very like I. That wasn't me, right, right, like he's very adamant, that wasn't me, I had nothing to do with that. Right, I get it. I get it. But come on, folks.
Speaker 2:And Burton says you know, people have gotten over it and it seems to fit today, but back then it was like a cardinal rule you don't break.
Speaker 1:Right, if that's your religion, it's kind of like don't mess with it, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's another great shot where Jack, early on, when he's meeting Eckhart in an alleyway yes, and what's the actor's name? He's in a ton of 80s movies, bob something, tracy Walter, who plays Bob the Goon?
Speaker 2:He's a henchman Right and again a friend of Nicholson's. They had worked together before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's a scene and Eckhart starts to pull a gun, but before he can, Bob the Goon pulls a gun out and it looks the way Burton shoots it. It looks like it's Jack's arm.
Speaker 2:He's right over the shoulder. It great, what a great shot so nice, it's so, and the same with that call out that you already mentioned. You know, hey, eckhart, think about the future. I mean just great stuff you know it's it.
Speaker 1:It's not a perfect movie, but no, it's not a perfect movie. No, it's not a perfect movie. There are some issues with it, not the least of which, and probably it gets a little more tolerable every time I see it but it's still difficult, are you thinking? About an actor it's Robert Wold.
Speaker 2:Yes, robert Wold, I just can't, doesn't fit, although I did.
Speaker 1:He's not in the comics. I did like's a again. He was a big actor in the 80s, like he was, yeah, our list bull durham, you know right, he was in good morning vietnam with robin williams, like right, you know. There's things he's been in that I like. I just didn't like him.
Speaker 2:If, if, if there's anything campy at all about this film, it's wool yeah yeah, just, uh, just and sorry, robert, you know I was not a fan of his going in so every time he's on screen. It's like a cringe moment for me. The only time was at the very end. You know, question, how do we call you know? That's the only thing I tolerated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all right it's all right, it's okay. Yeah, it's, but the first half of the movie with him in it is not great.
Speaker 2:It's not good kim basinger's, and it's a shame because basinger is so grounded and really, with all these guys running around and silly costumes, she keeps it in the real world she really does, you know, and she's such a significant character. I don't know what happened um with her not returning. I never read anything about that. I don't know if you knew no, I don't, I was.
Speaker 1:I was wondering if you might bring that up, but but it's funny. You mentioned that because one thought I had as this film was ending. I thought this film stands on its own. Oh yeah, you didn't need to make a sequel to this film and he wasn't thinking it.
Speaker 2:He says that right out. In fact, the joker's dead, like for people who are like, well, is he dead? Oh, he's dead. He kills.
Speaker 1:Once it makes 40 million opening weekend, you knew it was going to be bad. You're getting a sequel, yeah, and then after the second one.
Speaker 2:although I don't know about the money, I think the second one did better than the first, but that's probably just the scales of economy.
Speaker 2:But it was clearly they were going to make a third, because that one and I think the the mistake burton makes in part two is too many characters. He kept it to really three. You know, the batman, the joker and and vicky vale. Those were the core characters, right, but then when you get into the second one, you've got the batman, you've got the penguin, you've got um, who's the actor that plays catwoman's boss? You got michelle pfeiffer. Oh boy, oh, my god, I can't believe it.
Speaker 1:I haven't seen that for so long. It's terrible.
Speaker 2:I uh, let's see if I can pull it shrek max shrek is the character's name, and it's a totally famous actor, oh christopher walken, walken, good lord. So he's like a major character, right and you gotta take time from somebody to give him screen time because he was so good, sure, yeah. And then you know, three and four are just so horrible, they're almost unwatchable.
Speaker 1:And alfred is in all those first four correct god michael goff, no, michael golf yeah, is that alfred?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly I'm thinking of commissioner gordon, whoever played pat hengel pat yeah, pat hengels and all he used to be in a west, you know western actor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's good, he's really good, oh yeah he's really good in this and and and that guy. Every time I watch this the mayor I'm like is that ed koch? I mean, it's like it's definitely a koch look alike.
Speaker 1:It's his doppelganger. It's unbelievable. But but billy d williams, again just to say I yeah, you hit it on the nose. I'm like, damn, I wished we had gotten another harvey dent performance. Yeah, I think it would have been fantastic. But I agree it was enjoyable to go back and watch this. I remember, like it was yesterday, standing in line outside of showcase cinemas waiting for this to start. There was a line outside down the block, um and it it delivered back then it was the range you know, so it was great and yeah like I'm surprised it didn't do more money.
Speaker 2:But again, back then a ticket was four bucks, right well, anything else mike to say about 1989, batman I just I look back on it very fondly. You know that time it just you know 35 years it goes in a blink.
Speaker 1:Folks Comes and goes fast.
Speaker 2:Don't let anybody tell you any different. Because I feel like I was sitting in the theater yesterday. Yeah, being annoyed by somebody you know, popping, crunching popcorn or something.
Speaker 1:Some things never change folks.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, if you are not currently following us, mike, and said that in a long time, make sure that you do. You can go to our official website, ohb podcastcom OHB as in brother podcastcom. You can find us on Instagram, our handle's at OHBpodcast and our handle on YouTube is at O Brother Podcast. Folks all spelled out Appreciate all of the engagement and interaction with folks out on YouTube. We get a lot of comments on the videos now and it's fun to go back and forth with people, especially when they're educating us about we have no idea.
Speaker 2:Right and you know we welcome criticism.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Some people you know they get offended or whatever.
Speaker 1:But no, I think it's important to point out. We've always said this is just our opinion, right? I mean, I don't agree with you half the time, so why would we think that people are always going to agree with us? That's not the point.
Speaker 2:We just like to come on here, shoot the right stuff that we enjoy, and that's kind of it, it's all about having fun. It is, and so we know the killer is I get criticized more than you because I you know I'll tear a movie wanting to dislike it but, um, so, yeah, appreciate, uh, you know, make sure you come out and follow us, subscribe to the youtube channel.
Speaker 1:Uh, we'd appreciate that. Just help grow the channel, get it out to more and more people. It really does do us a service if you hit the thumbs up button to like the videos, just to again get it. You know, twist it up into the algorithm, as they say, or whatever. Um, but again, appreciate all those who have subscribed. Um, and yeah, drop us a comment and let us know what you think about the 1989 batman. Were you there, like mike and I? Right, or have you recently seen this, or you know? I would be curious to know that from some of the OGs.
Speaker 2:Is Michael Keaton the best Batman? My opinion he is. When he came back in the Flash movie, it was the best thing about the movie.
Speaker 1:Now, mike, we're going to be celebrating our fifth year next year, yep, and our second episode I had mentioned to you was an episode where we broke down all the Jokers. Yeah, so we might have to come back and break down all the Batmans at some point and then we'll do all the Supermans and all that sort of stuff, but for now that's going to do it for this review of Batman 1989, the 35th year anniversary. Can't believe it. So it was fun talking about this one.
Speaker 2:It goes in a blink.
Speaker 1:Glad we have this one in the Old Brother podcast vaults. But that's going to do it for another episode of the Old Brother podcast. I'm your host, dan Smith, long time. He's always my brother from the same mother, mike Smith, and we will see you next time.
Speaker 2:Bye everyone, Thank you.
